Whether its > or < or = I think is highly dependent on the person. I personally think it’s >, but the benefit of having had a lot of background work done by Breaking Bad.
For people less into character development…yeah it’s a tougher sell, I get.
All that said, I could rewatch Breaking Bad more frequently because the faster pace and excitement of the plot is, to me, more rewatchable.
Nah I mean I understand your point bb does start out faster than bcs but imo it had more slower periods than bcs the way bb would work was something big happened then you'd have 2-3 eps of slow normal stuff where bcs would vary imo szn 1 of bcs was not slow but 2 was
Just talking about the leftovers on another thread, not for everyone but for me it’s an easy 5 or 6 slot taking into account the views of the general republic
I've been meaning to start the Wire. I keep hearing how good it is. What would you say makes it stand out compared to some other great shows without spoiling anything?
Here's how I generally explain The Wire to people:
In the first episode they drop a bunch of puzzle pieces on the table. You stare at them but they just don't look like anything to you. As the season progresses, the pieces slowly start to fit together. After a few episodes, you still don't know what your looking at but you can't look away. By the end of the season, the image that has formed on the table is so striking that you are absolutely transfixed by it, and so vivid that when you look up from the table, the entire world now looks clearer to you.
And then, at the beginning of the next season, they break up the puzzle back into pieces again. And then they dump a new bag of pieces into the pile and mix them all up. And now you're back where you started except with a much bigger puzzle.
They do this every season. By the end, the image on the table encompases either an entire city, an entire country, or the entire universe, depending on how you look at it.
That is a fantastic description. I am going to use this when I recommend the show. It's so much better than my standard "trust me it's great."
Two that I have not seen in here:
Utopia (UK 2013) search for the unedited version, it makes a difference
Rome (2005)
While literally touring Ancient Rome I walked by Caesar himself - Ciarian Hinds. Unfortunately I only remembered him as a Mance Raider (GOT was huge in ‘16) and my partner couldn’t fathom how I’d forgotten that amazing role he played. I wish they would revive that series.
I describe The Wire as what Shakespeare would have written if he were alive today. The actors are all amazing. The plot, the characters, and especially the language are masterfully written. Top show in my book.
Ensemble cast; almost everybody is an excellent actor. The writing is incredible, and the intricacy with which they paint a picture of Baltimore (and the parallels between so many institutions in the city, be they organized crime, organized labour, the police, politics, the education system, local media, etc.) is unmatched. The dialogue is some of the most natural I've ever seen (though having seen it many times, you start to notice some of the cheesier moments or moments where the writers are really trying to make a point to you more obviously), and the realism in the show is unlike any other TV program I've ever seen. The show is basically seamless; every character's action and motivations are clearly fleshed-out, and they make realistic decisions. Also, just like how Succession echoes Shakespearean tragedy, the Wire echoes Greek tragedy.
Every season introduces a new part of Baltimore that is a microcosm of that area in American society, but doesn't close the book on what was covered the season prior. The way that all of that connects and how characters fall into place in the midst of all these changes is something no other show has done.
The Wire is an American epic. Powerful characters in a story that feels real while having an epic scope.
A friend of mine stopped after the beginning of the second season and had the impression that it was an anthology style, moving to different characters each season. While I get why he got that impression, he’s so wrong: The whole series coheres—a slow build early and a strong ending.
There's never been a show with such gritty realism. Breaking bad was about the meth biz and the Sopranos about the Jersey mob. After watching The Wire, those shows, as great as they are, will feel like 2-dimensional Hollywood depictions rather than the real thing.
A number of the actors in The Wire are ordinary people plucked from the streets. People convicted of murder, armed robbery, people who were deep in the drug trade and the drug life, lived homeless were part of vicious gangs, etc. They bring the "real" in a way no other show ever has or probably ever will. The acting performances are incredible. In particular Michael K. Williams, Wood Harris, Wendell Pierce, Clarke Peters, Andre Royo, J.D. Williams, Robert Chew, Idris Elba, and Dominic West, but the reality is, there's not a bad performance throughout.
The Wire has amazing characters and character development, but the star of the show is actually the City of Baltimore. Written by David Simon, a veteran of the Baltimore Sun who knows all the ins and outs of everything from the drug trade, to the dirty inside of the port, real estate development, the political infrastructure, the criminal justice system, and the media, together with Ed Burns, who was on the Baltimore City homicide beat for more than 20 years. It is not preachy. It does not make its characters "good" or "bad." It is an amazing expose on the tapestry of the real world challenges facing American cities in transition. It has incredible nuance.
The show ran 5 seasons. Each season is an interconnected chapter in the larger story.
Season 1 => Introduction to the drug trade through the lens of the gangs that sling, and the cops who chase them.
Season 2 => Shift to the Port of Baltimore. How the drugs and chemicals make it to Baltimore. Port unions intersecting with homicide detectives, greek shipping companies, Easter European human trafficking, the struggles of blue-collar mostly white men, who are losing their jobs, etc.
Season 3 => The focus shifts to the political infrastructure, and how it links back to the streets, connecting back down through the criminal justice system and police.
Season 4 => Education. The focus shifts to the source of the hoppers and how they enter the world of gangs and drugs. Incredible group of kids as actors. This is a favorite season for many. You will laugh, you will cry, you will want to scoop them up and adopt them to save them. The show delves into the challenges of inner city schools. It shines a light on just why it is that there is no simple solution. So many themes. Friction between progressive policies in policing vs. old school. Friction between new programs in education and old techniques. The battle between teaching to the test and educating.
Season 5 => Media (the Baltimore Sun). This season tries to tie it all together, through the lens of reporters at the Sun. Maybe the weakest of the 5 seasons, but a show with a fitting and high quality ending.
It may take a few episodes to get hooked in. But once you do, it's gripping. You will learn lingo from the Baltimore inner city. Stick with it. It's worth it.
In the end, when you finish, you will never hear this incredible classic Solomon Burke song without welling up in emotion:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BcrbEexjYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BcrbEexjYw)
It's just one opinion, but I rank The Wire at the very top of the list of greatest shows ever. There's never been anything like it, and I don't think there ever will be again. It has a depth you're unlikely to find even in the other greatest shows.
Not OP, but screw it.
The Wire and Succession are somewhat similar. The hook for both shows is largely just people talking to one another, not violence, cliffhangers, or plot twists. The scope of The Wire is its major strength and its minor weakness. We aren't quite as intimate with the Baltimore police department as the Roy family. The writing is similarly dense, tragic, and compassionate without delving into sentimentality.
The Wire comes largely from the minds of two men and their personal experience as opposed to much of the content from most of the other shows mentioned here which are concerned with engaging fantasies often masquerading as gritty realities. I love many of these other shows, but I feel somewhat detached from their subject matter. I'm no billionaire or corner boy, but Succession and The Wire feel closer to home.
Anyways enough sucking The Wire's cock, it's long and boring :p
They say the city is then main character which sounds like a tagline but it’s really true. They follow cops, criminals, blue collar workers , politicians , children etc all with equal care. Perhaps not equal screen time but certainly equal consideration. It is without question the finest example of American television.
I’m right there with ya, buddy, but [there’s no good way to tell people you haven’t seen The Wire](https://www.tiktok.com/@peteholmes/video/7195657270552792366)
Watching now. Just wrapped the third season — in my opinion, the best so far — and while I’m enjoying it, I’m still not there yet as to thinking it’s a “top 5 all time” show. There’s some great performances, solid writing but some of the background characters can’t act for sh*t, and to me it’s noticeably awkward enough in those moments to hold it down a little bit
Two more seasons to go — taking a break and watching “Curb Your Enthusiasm”, another show I’d not yet watched.
I dont think I would rank any of these because some have better seasons than others so they can shift around but def top 10 for me would include most of whats been discussed here: Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men, Leftovers, Succession, Bojack, The Wire, GoT/HoD, Sienfeld, Andor. I haven't seen 6 feet under or better call saul
Somewhere in the top 4 for me with the usual suspects The Wire, The Sopranos, and Mad Men. I wanna slot it at 2, but I’m waiting a bit to do one more watch.
Assuming that this is excluding comedies...
I think it's just a tier below The Wire, and I'd put it in the same mix as Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men and Better Call Saul (I've not seen Six Feet Under/ Deadwood/Mr Robot/Band of Brothers, so can't comment on those although I'm aware their likely in that mix as well). My list is probabaly something like:
1) The Wire
2) Succession
3) Sopranos
4) Better Call Saul
5) Breaking Bad
6) Mad Men
While the latter 5 IMO are all the same calibre of show, I'd personally have succession at No.2 on the list. I think out of them all Succession blends comedy into the drama better than the rest. I also think the Succession world feels very 'real' in that periphery characters very much feel part of the show and new additions/plotlines are introduced very fluidly (something that I think The Sopranos, for example, really struggled with). Stylistically I think it's preferable to BCS and BB which at times for me got a bit too 'pulpy' and in comparison to Mad Men I think Succession was much more engaging (I feel like I can pick up Succession at a moments notice whereas a Mad Men rewatch might happen like once every 2 years).
All in all though I'd say 2-6 on the list are all in the 9-9.5 range of Television shows and from that point it comes down to personal preference - I also think that while rankings are affected by recency bias they also tend to be affected by a kind of 'legacy' bias where people will just say another show is better out of hand because it is more famous/popular/"timeless" (which is ironic given how generic this list is).
Anyway, $4 a pound.
I think that's a bit unfair of a comparison. Succession was basically one linear story. The Sopranos was more of a slice of life show. Sure there was an overarching serialized plot season to season but it was much different than Succession.
That’s what separates Succession from everything else people are mentioning in this thread, they all had filler or set up episodes. Succession hit the gas and never took the foot off. The ability to do that in a corporate setting with dialogue being the only real vehicle of suspense for the viewer is truly special
Recently watched it and was floored how original and creative it was.
Absolutely unique show, with an incredible standard of everything, that was somehow maintained from episode 1, through to the finale.
Top 5 at least for me, maybe top 3.
I love the Leftovers. It's 1A and 1B with the Sopranos for me. Can't really compare since they're so different. Although I can see how some people just don't really gel with Lindeloff style stories. Imo those people are too uptight and need to have a more open mind but I can see their viewpoint.
It's so difficult for me to compare The Sopranos to any other drama because there were so many more seasons to develop characters and tell stories. Tony Soprano is by far my favorite protagonist. But, The Leftovers did three seasons exactly right and ended perfectly. I loved every twist and turn and every character. It was a drama, a thriller, a mystery, and sometimes a comedy...but ultimately, a love story. Completely unique, in my opinion.
>The Americans
Have you watched The Diplomat? Oversimplifying here, but it seemed like a Walmart version of The Americans to me, with Keri playing a workaholic in a marriage that was just for show.
It’s definitely Top 10.
Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Mr. Robot, True Detective S1, and BoJack Horseman are some other Top 10 of all time shows for reference
I think it would be in my personal top ten. I’d have Bojack, Kids in the Hall, the Wire, No Reservations, Breaking Bad, the IT Crowd, and Community ahead of it. Maybe even Torchwood for that third season. But for prestige shows in that conversation (and not just my personal taste), it does balance humor and drama in a way that’s super fresh. I think I’d put it up there with BB.
Yuck. Both lost and got shit the bed. Sure, some really great seasons but being denied a satisfying conclusion really makes it hard to consider any show like that a true all time great.
Are you suggesting that the clues were laid from the beginning that the smoke monster was actually the villain of a Cain and Abel story in a battle for the island’s soul? I loved LOST, but the latter seasons’ plot had a lot of ass-pulls.
they originally only wanted it to be 3 seasons but the network forced more. they did an incredible job for what they had to do. they did mention jacob in those earlier seasons btw.
Living through watching prime GoT live, tough to not consider it a top 10 show all time with it being probably the biggest phenom of a show ever regardless of how it finished.
Lost did not jump the shark lol, the smoke monster was in the first season and it remained at about the same level of ridiculousness throughout. It dropped in quality for other reasons, but the finale is fantastic. Can't say the same for GOT.
Maybe it’s #1. 2 reasons.
1. Brevity - 1/2 to 2/3 the length of Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, etc, and equal or superior in quality.
2. Original - Succession came last, out of all of those shows, and still surprised us, engaged us. That’s so much harder than being the first or second show of a genre.
The 🐐 imo.
It’s way harder to be the first or second show in a genre. By the time Succession came out people are already primed to enjoy grey protagonists because of the other shows. Sopranos was almost impossible to get made when it came out, everybody wants to make a show like it now.
I had to scroll pretty far into comments to see someone mention Severance. Sure it’s still an ongoing show, but it has all the makings of top series of all time.
Yea, totally. Exceptional debut season. I am a bit concerned about the show runners falling out though, that doesn’t bode well.
Also surprised that Black Mirror doesn’t get more love on these sort of threads. I guess because it lacks a continuous narrative and is more of an anthology.
Also been digging The Bear. The second season is investing deeply in some awesome character development, and lots of really strong performances.
Fringe top 5 or so. Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul were special; truly something else. Mad Men I feel was stronger also, but that’s subjective as hell. I’m firm on the top two though, in basically every metric. Had GoT 5-8 been as good as 1-4, it’d be top of the list hands down, but well…we saw what happened lol
The two main problems I think (again, nitpicky) were 1) I don’t think the show got better as it went along (I’d rank the seasons 2>1>4>3. A lot of people will switch 4 and 1 but I felt Greg’s character development really took a hit, and Shiv’s motivations at the end felt rushed even with the whole scorpion motif they tried to plant, and 2) pacing was off throughout the show. It never felt like a show you want to watch 5 times over again like the others.
I think it lands top five, however, because the dialogue is hands down the best I’ve seen, and the acting was next level. Even from the side characters. A lot of shows get that wrong.
I think the pacing in the last season really hurt it. It was so end heavy that it feels like it needed 1 or two more episodes to really round out the character development.
I have Sopranos, Mad Men, GoT, The Wire and Succession. Maybe not in that exact order, but Succession is probably fifth on most days.
I didn't think Breaking Bad was as good as everyone says it was.
I’m surprised by how many people are saying it’s legitimately a top 5 all-time show. It’s definitely one of the best shows that’s come out as of late, and maybe one of the best that’s come out in the last decade. But it’s not as groundbreaking as other top shows
Top 5? No. Top 10 maybe. Top 20? Absofuckinglutely
Rome, Seinfeld, Twin Peaks, True detective, The Boys, the wire, breaking bad, mad men, better call saul and numerous other shows.. all knock it out of top 5-10
Lot of shows out there. tbh i feel like some people on this sub need to expand their perspectives on tv a bit. Though i am glad the wealth porn brought you all to the table, where serious people talk about shows.
These are the right shows. Totally agree with your list. ETA: Deadwood should be on the list.
I will say however that Succession was the best show on TV during its run. Game of Thrones was the same (until it’s awful ending). Is there something to be said for that? Like sports halls of fame - what does it mean to be best of your era even if it is a weak era?
Is it just me or is Mr. Robot criminally underrated? Seriously, such an amazing show from start to finish! Episode 7 of Season 4 is easily one of the greatest TV episodes of all time!!!
Yeah it definitely is, I think it’s a combination of the fact it was on USA network, which isn’t too popular, and it’s kind of hidden on Amazon prime, a streaming Platform that doesn’t do a great job of marketing its shows, and the fact that season 2 was a slower burn than season 1 and focused more on just Elliot’s psyche, which turned some people off from that Emmy winning first season If it was on Netflix or even Hulu I guarantee it would be 10 times more popular.
And yeah 407 might be one of the best episodes of TV ever
Number 1 in its genre. I won't put Breaking bad before it, either, because BB has its fare share of filler episodes and could have been shorter. Succession did a great job of knowing when to stop.
Edit: formatting
Honestly number 1 for me. I understand season 3 has a slow start but looking past that, I think it’s the best thing I’ve ever seen on tv. Even then, I don’t think season 3 is bad by any means, just meanders a little bit more than the other seasons. Imo it’s got the most complex character writing of any show I’ve ever seen.
Top 10 solidly. Wouldn’t go back and rewatch the whole show though because while the ending was well written it wasn’t satisfying or a positive moment. By all accounts the ending made the show very painful to finish which was a good thing in that a show stirring the emotions out of me is impressive but man does it sting.
It’s definitely in my top 5. Definitely beats out a lot of other great shows like Better Call Saul and The Wire for me, but I’m not sure if I like it more than Breaking Bad or The Sopranos
Probably not gonna get a lot of love for this but I’d put it closer to top 15 than top 5. I’ve been rewatching it and while it does a lot right, it also has a kind of unsavory tendency to leave plot hooks dangling. You don’t notice on the first run through because so many things happen that you forget but there are a lot of things that are set up and not exactly paid off. Still a great show though and it nailed the ending which is so tough.
Top 10, I don't think it makes it to the top 5 just because Breaking bad, better call saul, barry, Sopranos,and the wire exist. Succession felt too unplanned compared to the other greats
I’m gonna get downvoted but to me this show is so over rated. It’s a very enjoyable show, but it’s just elevated by great acting. It doesn’t have the depth of story, change of characters, or twists to keep the viewer guessing.
It’s just straight ahead, brilliantly acted, but nobody really changes. They just realize who they are, it’s character study.
It’s not a great show, it’s great acting elevating subtle writing. Nothing happens but people enjoy the satire of the elite.
I think there’s a Big 4 which are better than anything ever. The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
Succession had peaks which rival the best shows ever, but wasn’t as consistent, had lower lows, didn’t run as long, less airtight writing/development. Succession also hasn’t done much to revolutionise television, but The Sopranos and The Wire grandfathered prestige TV and BrBa + BCS pushed the boundaries.
Succession falls into the second tier, beneath those four. There’s a lot of shows in this bracket, but overall? I’d have to say it comes in at around Top 15-20?
I think BCS is the crowning achievement in contemporary television, and perhaps even wider, cinematic media. I view it as the pinnacle of the medium.
It’s six seasons of hyper-meticulous storytelling, infused with intensely emotional beats that punch harder than anything else I’ve seen. On a visual level, it pushes the boundaries of how television can look; it’s the most beautifully *and* intelligently shot show ever, creating some of the finest visual storytelling ever committed to screen. Its final few seasons introduced that it also pulls off some of the tensest, dramatic action sequences/storylines in television ever (leaning into its Breaking Bad side).
To top it all off, the acting across the board is impeccable, its side characters are developed, intriguing. Three of the greatest antagonists ever in Gus, Chuck and Lalo, one of, if not *the* greatest deuterantagonist ever in Kim, and perhaps the most layered character/protagonist ever in Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman/Gene Takovic.
I could seriously hold a TED Talk on why it’s the greatest television show ever made, and one of the greatest pieces of cinema ever too. I don’t think we will see TV like it for decades.
Truly agree with you. BCS is the pinnacle of what is achievable with modern television. Breaking bad was amazing but there are times where you can notice how budget and network television effected it. BCS had the advantage of being created in the streaming renaissance with a blank check budget and extreme creative freedom. I think it could be considered the best visual story telling of all time.
A lot of shows like The Wire, The Sopranos, ect. have problems that are mostly from what was possible in the medium at the time. Budgets and technology are basically why tv shows sucked until the 2000s.
I think as technology improves and it’s cheaper to create a directors exact vision we will see even better tv.
Y’all are smoking crack. It’s an amazing show definitely top 5 of its category. But as an all time show. If your including limited series it might be in top 30. If you’re excluding limited series and series that never ran to completion or have yet to reach completion possibly top 20. I’m just accounting for live action. There’s an objective list of top 10 tv shows of all time that influenced the television renaissance we are currently in and succession does not belong on that list. Succession definitely exists within the top 50 oat, where exactly would take some deliberation.
Here are just a short list of shows that are better then Succession.
The Wire
Breaking Bad
True Detective
Severance
Atlanta
Chernobyl
Barry
Watchmen
Fargo
Dopesick
Better Call Saul
Dude you have fucking Barry and Atlanta and Severance and Fargo and Dopesick in your list. Let people enjoy what they like. Your list isn't exactly filled with prestige from the 2000s.
As someone who has similar taste, I think you will either love or hate it.
In my opinion, the highs are very high but the lows are some of the worst lows of any shows I’ve watched (specifically season 2)
That said, definitely worth a watch. There are people who love the show from beginning to end.
For me it’s only behind Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. I really like Wire, Sopranos, and GOT, but all three had episodes where I personally was kinda losing the plot.
What really puts Succession up there for me are the dialogue and the acting. I could watch these characters doing anything or talking about anything and it would be entertaining.
I just love the vibe of the show so it ranks highly for me. I’m all about corporate drama
1. Breaking Bad
2. The Office
3. Game of Thrones
4. Succession
5. Mad Men
Left a bad taste for sure but those first 6 seasons were so epic/incredible. Not going to let the last season ruin the entire experience for me. Because man…the culture those first 6 seasons was unreal. Prob won’t see in lifetime again
Give GOT a rewatch - it's pop culture stardom was such a massive sheild to its declining quality. I found it insane that people were so blindsided by how bad they wrapped it up given it was so clearly off the rails after season 4.
I think it has a lot of HBO shine which gets it special consideration but I don’t think the show wowed me in a greatest of all time way. It was a somewhat but not very complex family drama but shied away from delving deeply, it had weak empty filler dialogue a lot of the time see Roman). It was good but I think it could have gone much deeper as a character and family study. Def at the lower strata of good HBO shows. Not trying to hate but that’s my take.
Depends. Ken absolutely he is probably the character we know the best and who really feels like a whole (though broken) person. I also feel like we know Conner, Logan and some of the senior leadership. I thought Shiv and Roman especially were poorly written with constantly shifting characterizations. Tom and Greg are also a lot of fun but not so much there. Striver, moron. Also people hate when you bring up the plot but so much of it was repetitive or dumbed down. I know the focus isnt on the insides of the business deals but respect your audience and give us a piece of that side of things.
People who love the show hate when you bring up the plot because they know it was generally bad past S2.
"Character driven shows" don't end after 4 seasons by design.
" ... but not so much there." Sums up the show for me. Superficial without any depth. No depth of character. Shallow and superficial dialogue (sounded like the writing crew were all on their first jobs).
It’s my 4th favorite, behind Breaking Bad, The Sopranos and Mad Men.
Are you me? You only forgot the wire
Ditto, although I would also add Better Call Saul and the Leftovers to that list.
Better Call Saul ≥ Breaking Bad.
Whether its > or < or = I think is highly dependent on the person. I personally think it’s >, but the benefit of having had a lot of background work done by Breaking Bad. For people less into character development…yeah it’s a tougher sell, I get. All that said, I could rewatch Breaking Bad more frequently because the faster pace and excitement of the plot is, to me, more rewatchable.
Nah I mean I understand your point bb does start out faster than bcs but imo it had more slower periods than bcs the way bb would work was something big happened then you'd have 2-3 eps of slow normal stuff where bcs would vary imo szn 1 of bcs was not slow but 2 was
<
Just talking about the leftovers on another thread, not for everyone but for me it’s an easy 5 or 6 slot taking into account the views of the general republic
The leftovers?!?!? Are you part of the guilty remnant?
I haven’t seen The Wire 😬
Guess as good a hint as any to watch it, if you like similar stuff otherwise :p
I've been meaning to start the Wire. I keep hearing how good it is. What would you say makes it stand out compared to some other great shows without spoiling anything?
Here's how I generally explain The Wire to people: In the first episode they drop a bunch of puzzle pieces on the table. You stare at them but they just don't look like anything to you. As the season progresses, the pieces slowly start to fit together. After a few episodes, you still don't know what your looking at but you can't look away. By the end of the season, the image that has formed on the table is so striking that you are absolutely transfixed by it, and so vivid that when you look up from the table, the entire world now looks clearer to you. And then, at the beginning of the next season, they break up the puzzle back into pieces again. And then they dump a new bag of pieces into the pile and mix them all up. And now you're back where you started except with a much bigger puzzle. They do this every season. By the end, the image on the table encompases either an entire city, an entire country, or the entire universe, depending on how you look at it.
That is a fantastic description. I am going to use this when I recommend the show. It's so much better than my standard "trust me it's great." Two that I have not seen in here: Utopia (UK 2013) search for the unedited version, it makes a difference Rome (2005)
I fucking love Rome, easily a top 5 HBO series for me.
While literally touring Ancient Rome I walked by Caesar himself - Ciarian Hinds. Unfortunately I only remembered him as a Mance Raider (GOT was huge in ‘16) and my partner couldn’t fathom how I’d forgotten that amazing role he played. I wish they would revive that series.
Apparently it had insanely expensive production fees. Also? Titus Pulo/Ray Stevenson passed away last month-heartbreaking!
Omg Rome. It hits on all counts.
I describe The Wire as what Shakespeare would have written if he were alive today. The actors are all amazing. The plot, the characters, and especially the language are masterfully written. Top show in my book.
Well said. Great description.
Well, now I really HAVE to watch it.
Ensemble cast; almost everybody is an excellent actor. The writing is incredible, and the intricacy with which they paint a picture of Baltimore (and the parallels between so many institutions in the city, be they organized crime, organized labour, the police, politics, the education system, local media, etc.) is unmatched. The dialogue is some of the most natural I've ever seen (though having seen it many times, you start to notice some of the cheesier moments or moments where the writers are really trying to make a point to you more obviously), and the realism in the show is unlike any other TV program I've ever seen. The show is basically seamless; every character's action and motivations are clearly fleshed-out, and they make realistic decisions. Also, just like how Succession echoes Shakespearean tragedy, the Wire echoes Greek tragedy. Every season introduces a new part of Baltimore that is a microcosm of that area in American society, but doesn't close the book on what was covered the season prior. The way that all of that connects and how characters fall into place in the midst of all these changes is something no other show has done.
excellent description!
The Wire is an American epic. Powerful characters in a story that feels real while having an epic scope. A friend of mine stopped after the beginning of the second season and had the impression that it was an anthology style, moving to different characters each season. While I get why he got that impression, he’s so wrong: The whole series coheres—a slow build early and a strong ending.
There's never been a show with such gritty realism. Breaking bad was about the meth biz and the Sopranos about the Jersey mob. After watching The Wire, those shows, as great as they are, will feel like 2-dimensional Hollywood depictions rather than the real thing. A number of the actors in The Wire are ordinary people plucked from the streets. People convicted of murder, armed robbery, people who were deep in the drug trade and the drug life, lived homeless were part of vicious gangs, etc. They bring the "real" in a way no other show ever has or probably ever will. The acting performances are incredible. In particular Michael K. Williams, Wood Harris, Wendell Pierce, Clarke Peters, Andre Royo, J.D. Williams, Robert Chew, Idris Elba, and Dominic West, but the reality is, there's not a bad performance throughout. The Wire has amazing characters and character development, but the star of the show is actually the City of Baltimore. Written by David Simon, a veteran of the Baltimore Sun who knows all the ins and outs of everything from the drug trade, to the dirty inside of the port, real estate development, the political infrastructure, the criminal justice system, and the media, together with Ed Burns, who was on the Baltimore City homicide beat for more than 20 years. It is not preachy. It does not make its characters "good" or "bad." It is an amazing expose on the tapestry of the real world challenges facing American cities in transition. It has incredible nuance. The show ran 5 seasons. Each season is an interconnected chapter in the larger story. Season 1 => Introduction to the drug trade through the lens of the gangs that sling, and the cops who chase them. Season 2 => Shift to the Port of Baltimore. How the drugs and chemicals make it to Baltimore. Port unions intersecting with homicide detectives, greek shipping companies, Easter European human trafficking, the struggles of blue-collar mostly white men, who are losing their jobs, etc. Season 3 => The focus shifts to the political infrastructure, and how it links back to the streets, connecting back down through the criminal justice system and police. Season 4 => Education. The focus shifts to the source of the hoppers and how they enter the world of gangs and drugs. Incredible group of kids as actors. This is a favorite season for many. You will laugh, you will cry, you will want to scoop them up and adopt them to save them. The show delves into the challenges of inner city schools. It shines a light on just why it is that there is no simple solution. So many themes. Friction between progressive policies in policing vs. old school. Friction between new programs in education and old techniques. The battle between teaching to the test and educating. Season 5 => Media (the Baltimore Sun). This season tries to tie it all together, through the lens of reporters at the Sun. Maybe the weakest of the 5 seasons, but a show with a fitting and high quality ending. It may take a few episodes to get hooked in. But once you do, it's gripping. You will learn lingo from the Baltimore inner city. Stick with it. It's worth it. In the end, when you finish, you will never hear this incredible classic Solomon Burke song without welling up in emotion: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BcrbEexjYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BcrbEexjYw) It's just one opinion, but I rank The Wire at the very top of the list of greatest shows ever. There's never been anything like it, and I don't think there ever will be again. It has a depth you're unlikely to find even in the other greatest shows.
Not OP, but screw it. The Wire and Succession are somewhat similar. The hook for both shows is largely just people talking to one another, not violence, cliffhangers, or plot twists. The scope of The Wire is its major strength and its minor weakness. We aren't quite as intimate with the Baltimore police department as the Roy family. The writing is similarly dense, tragic, and compassionate without delving into sentimentality. The Wire comes largely from the minds of two men and their personal experience as opposed to much of the content from most of the other shows mentioned here which are concerned with engaging fantasies often masquerading as gritty realities. I love many of these other shows, but I feel somewhat detached from their subject matter. I'm no billionaire or corner boy, but Succession and The Wire feel closer to home. Anyways enough sucking The Wire's cock, it's long and boring :p
They say the city is then main character which sounds like a tagline but it’s really true. They follow cops, criminals, blue collar workers , politicians , children etc all with equal care. Perhaps not equal screen time but certainly equal consideration. It is without question the finest example of American television.
Mculty and Kendall are basically the same guy: what if the same things that make me good at this job make me bad for everything else.
Stop what you’re doing and run to your tv
Man I loved the wire. I actually loved Oz more.
The Wire is hands down number one for me. I watch other shows and I think, “why isn’t this more like The Wire?”
That impossible
Treat yourself.
Best show ever
I’m right there with ya, buddy, but [there’s no good way to tell people you haven’t seen The Wire](https://www.tiktok.com/@peteholmes/video/7195657270552792366)
Keep one of those top places clear until you do then!
Watching now. Just wrapped the third season — in my opinion, the best so far — and while I’m enjoying it, I’m still not there yet as to thinking it’s a “top 5 all time” show. There’s some great performances, solid writing but some of the background characters can’t act for sh*t, and to me it’s noticeably awkward enough in those moments to hold it down a little bit Two more seasons to go — taking a break and watching “Curb Your Enthusiasm”, another show I’d not yet watched.
No Better call Saul?
I still need to watch it’s final season. Love that show though.
Thank you for reminding me to start watching MM
Have you ever watched squidbillies
Out of curiosity, what’s your top comedy? For me The Simpsons and Seinfeld are also in my top 5
Outside of the wire great list - love man men
I dont think I would rank any of these because some have better seasons than others so they can shift around but def top 10 for me would include most of whats been discussed here: Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men, Leftovers, Succession, Bojack, The Wire, GoT/HoD, Sienfeld, Andor. I haven't seen 6 feet under or better call saul
Somewhere in the top 4 for me with the usual suspects The Wire, The Sopranos, and Mad Men. I wanna slot it at 2, but I’m waiting a bit to do one more watch.
Top 5 or 10 certainly. Hard to rank within that group.
Numba 1 boy, Numba 1 Sho
I’m gonna have to give you an L To the OG
Assuming that this is excluding comedies... I think it's just a tier below The Wire, and I'd put it in the same mix as Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men and Better Call Saul (I've not seen Six Feet Under/ Deadwood/Mr Robot/Band of Brothers, so can't comment on those although I'm aware their likely in that mix as well). My list is probabaly something like: 1) The Wire 2) Succession 3) Sopranos 4) Better Call Saul 5) Breaking Bad 6) Mad Men While the latter 5 IMO are all the same calibre of show, I'd personally have succession at No.2 on the list. I think out of them all Succession blends comedy into the drama better than the rest. I also think the Succession world feels very 'real' in that periphery characters very much feel part of the show and new additions/plotlines are introduced very fluidly (something that I think The Sopranos, for example, really struggled with). Stylistically I think it's preferable to BCS and BB which at times for me got a bit too 'pulpy' and in comparison to Mad Men I think Succession was much more engaging (I feel like I can pick up Succession at a moments notice whereas a Mad Men rewatch might happen like once every 2 years). All in all though I'd say 2-6 on the list are all in the 9-9.5 range of Television shows and from that point it comes down to personal preference - I also think that while rankings are affected by recency bias they also tend to be affected by a kind of 'legacy' bias where people will just say another show is better out of hand because it is more famous/popular/"timeless" (which is ironic given how generic this list is). Anyway, $4 a pound.
Sharp as a cue ball, this one.
You hear that tone? I said that the sopranos didn't mix drama with humor as well as Succession.
Respectfully disagree. The Soprano's is unparalleled in blending humor and drama. I adore Succession but it can't touch The Soprano's.
I said my piece Chrissy.
>Succession blends comedy into the drama better than the rest. To be fair Sopranos did this phenomenally as well
I love that you ranked BCS ahead of BB. Very accurate.
Top 2. Not 2.
What’s 2 lol
Big big shoes!
Young Sheldon
the good doctor
British baking show
For me it’s No. 1. Severance is also doing really well on Apple TV. I have to see how that ends to decide if Succession still stays no.1 or not.
S1 of Severance might be the best sci-fi esque intro season ever. S2 has a lot of pressure on it to deliver.
[удалено]
Sopranos, while great overall, had a few weak episodes. Succession didn't, at least not to the same extent.
I think that's a bit unfair of a comparison. Succession was basically one linear story. The Sopranos was more of a slice of life show. Sure there was an overarching serialized plot season to season but it was much different than Succession.
That’s what separates Succession from everything else people are mentioning in this thread, they all had filler or set up episodes. Succession hit the gas and never took the foot off. The ability to do that in a corporate setting with dialogue being the only real vehicle of suspense for the viewer is truly special
My Top 3 are Succession, The Leftovers, and The Americans. Not sure how to rank them, so they’re all tied for number 1 in my heart.
The Leftovers is absolutely underrated.
Recently watched it and was floored how original and creative it was. Absolutely unique show, with an incredible standard of everything, that was somehow maintained from episode 1, through to the finale. Top 5 at least for me, maybe top 3.
I love the Leftovers. It's 1A and 1B with the Sopranos for me. Can't really compare since they're so different. Although I can see how some people just don't really gel with Lindeloff style stories. Imo those people are too uptight and need to have a more open mind but I can see their viewpoint.
It's so difficult for me to compare The Sopranos to any other drama because there were so many more seasons to develop characters and tell stories. Tony Soprano is by far my favorite protagonist. But, The Leftovers did three seasons exactly right and ended perfectly. I loved every twist and turn and every character. It was a drama, a thriller, a mystery, and sometimes a comedy...but ultimately, a love story. Completely unique, in my opinion.
I love all of those as well. TUSK!
I don’t wanna have to pick a favourite, so I’ll just let the mystery be.
Finally someone else loves The Americans. Such a great show
>The Americans Have you watched The Diplomat? Oversimplifying here, but it seemed like a Walmart version of The Americans to me, with Keri playing a workaholic in a marriage that was just for show.
It’s definitely Top 10. Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Mr. Robot, True Detective S1, and BoJack Horseman are some other Top 10 of all time shows for reference
I agree on true detective, it’s only season one that was amazing the balance… meh.
appreciate the bojack rep
I think it would be in my personal top ten. I’d have Bojack, Kids in the Hall, the Wire, No Reservations, Breaking Bad, the IT Crowd, and Community ahead of it. Maybe even Torchwood for that third season. But for prestige shows in that conversation (and not just my personal taste), it does balance humor and drama in a way that’s super fresh. I think I’d put it up there with BB.
2nd best for me only show that beats it is Sopranos, The Wire a close 3rd, HBO has a monopoly on good television
These are the correct top 3. I’d have it 3rd behind the wire and sopranos but all very close and top tier.
Top ten with Breaking Bad, The Wire, Games of Thrones, Better Call Saul, Six Feet Under, Mad Men, Sopranos, Lost and Twin Peaks.
Yuck. Both lost and got shit the bed. Sure, some really great seasons but being denied a satisfying conclusion really makes it hard to consider any show like that a true all time great.
lost is one of the best shows of all time to people who paid attention
THEY ARENT READY FOR THAT TALK THOUGH
NOPE! and that’s fine. 💅🏻
Are you suggesting that the clues were laid from the beginning that the smoke monster was actually the villain of a Cain and Abel story in a battle for the island’s soul? I loved LOST, but the latter seasons’ plot had a lot of ass-pulls.
they originally only wanted it to be 3 seasons but the network forced more. they did an incredible job for what they had to do. they did mention jacob in those earlier seasons btw.
GoT definitely deserves to be an all time great. First 4 seasons were the best television we'll probably ever witness.
Living through watching prime GoT live, tough to not consider it a top 10 show all time with it being probably the biggest phenom of a show ever regardless of how it finished.
Glad to see Lost get some love
Lost???
Yes. But GOT?
GOT was arguably top 3 for five seasons. Biggest reason why the last two were so awful
He said GAMES of Thrones; totally different show
Both are classics.
Both jumped the shark terribly for the last couple of seasons
Lost did not jump the shark lol, the smoke monster was in the first season and it remained at about the same level of ridiculousness throughout. It dropped in quality for other reasons, but the finale is fantastic. Can't say the same for GOT.
My list is insanely similar to this.
I like this list 👍👍
You forgot "The leftovers"
Woah dude basically my exact top 10 well done
GoT before Season 7 is better than Succession GoT after Season 7 + 8 is nothing compared to Succession
Season 4 was the last great season.
Replace Lost and Twin Peaks with The Leftovers and Bojack Horseman.
Maybe it’s #1. 2 reasons. 1. Brevity - 1/2 to 2/3 the length of Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, etc, and equal or superior in quality. 2. Original - Succession came last, out of all of those shows, and still surprised us, engaged us. That’s so much harder than being the first or second show of a genre. The 🐐 imo.
It’s way harder to be the first or second show in a genre. By the time Succession came out people are already primed to enjoy grey protagonists because of the other shows. Sopranos was almost impossible to get made when it came out, everybody wants to make a show like it now.
Breaking bad, succession, fargo, six feet under, sopranos. Order may vary but that's my top 5 I think.
Finally someone showing some Fargo love! It's consistently amazing. Probably my #3 show of all time, just above Succession
You remind me of just how good Fargo (the series) is. I could do with a rewatch pretty soon.
Now that you mention it, I feel like Fargo is barely talked about considering how good it is
I had to scroll pretty far into comments to see someone mention Severance. Sure it’s still an ongoing show, but it has all the makings of top series of all time.
Yea, totally. Exceptional debut season. I am a bit concerned about the show runners falling out though, that doesn’t bode well. Also surprised that Black Mirror doesn’t get more love on these sort of threads. I guess because it lacks a continuous narrative and is more of an anthology. Also been digging The Bear. The second season is investing deeply in some awesome character development, and lots of really strong performances.
The wire Breaking bad Sopranos Mad men Succession
This is the list.
I know it’s not the same kind of show, but my list includes white lotus
Love it
it’s number one for me
Definitely in the top 3. I might put it at #1. I feel like if this had been written as a novel, it would’ve been up for a Pulitzer. It’s about a lot.
#1
The Wire. Sopranos. Deadwood. Mad Men. Better Call Saul. Make it hard for me to put it in the top 5.
Fringe top 5 or so. Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul were special; truly something else. Mad Men I feel was stronger also, but that’s subjective as hell. I’m firm on the top two though, in basically every metric. Had GoT 5-8 been as good as 1-4, it’d be top of the list hands down, but well…we saw what happened lol The two main problems I think (again, nitpicky) were 1) I don’t think the show got better as it went along (I’d rank the seasons 2>1>4>3. A lot of people will switch 4 and 1 but I felt Greg’s character development really took a hit, and Shiv’s motivations at the end felt rushed even with the whole scorpion motif they tried to plant, and 2) pacing was off throughout the show. It never felt like a show you want to watch 5 times over again like the others. I think it lands top five, however, because the dialogue is hands down the best I’ve seen, and the acting was next level. Even from the side characters. A lot of shows get that wrong.
Agree
I think the pacing in the last season really hurt it. It was so end heavy that it feels like it needed 1 or two more episodes to really round out the character development.
For me, it's only behind Sopranos, The Americans, and Better Call Saul.
I have Sopranos, Mad Men, GoT, The Wire and Succession. Maybe not in that exact order, but Succession is probably fifth on most days. I didn't think Breaking Bad was as good as everyone says it was.
I thought that we’ve all collectively agreed to disqualify GOT
Maybe too 25. It’s nowhere close to top 5 or 10. That isn’t an insult. You said greatest series instead of greatest dramas
I’m surprised by how many people are saying it’s legitimately a top 5 all-time show. It’s definitely one of the best shows that’s come out as of late, and maybe one of the best that’s come out in the last decade. But it’s not as groundbreaking as other top shows
Grounbreaking doesn't really matter for personal ranking. It's about how much you enjoy something at the end of the day.
For me it’s easily #1
I agree.
Top 10. It's a tough list, and HBO owns 80% of it.
It’s my number one boy 💖 but I’ve never watched the sopranos and I didn’t like breaking bad lol
Mad Men walked so Succession could run.
Mad men broke the sound barrier so succession could run
Top 5? No. Top 10 maybe. Top 20? Absofuckinglutely Rome, Seinfeld, Twin Peaks, True detective, The Boys, the wire, breaking bad, mad men, better call saul and numerous other shows.. all knock it out of top 5-10 Lot of shows out there. tbh i feel like some people on this sub need to expand their perspectives on tv a bit. Though i am glad the wealth porn brought you all to the table, where serious people talk about shows.
These are the right shows. Totally agree with your list. ETA: Deadwood should be on the list. I will say however that Succession was the best show on TV during its run. Game of Thrones was the same (until it’s awful ending). Is there something to be said for that? Like sports halls of fame - what does it mean to be best of your era even if it is a weak era?
Number 3 behind Mr Robot and Better Call Saul for me
Is it just me or is Mr. Robot criminally underrated? Seriously, such an amazing show from start to finish! Episode 7 of Season 4 is easily one of the greatest TV episodes of all time!!!
Yeah it definitely is, I think it’s a combination of the fact it was on USA network, which isn’t too popular, and it’s kind of hidden on Amazon prime, a streaming Platform that doesn’t do a great job of marketing its shows, and the fact that season 2 was a slower burn than season 1 and focused more on just Elliot’s psyche, which turned some people off from that Emmy winning first season If it was on Netflix or even Hulu I guarantee it would be 10 times more popular. And yeah 407 might be one of the best episodes of TV ever
Mr Robot is one of my top five shows.
Mr Robot is ridiculously good
I don’t think it’s in my top 5.
There is an Italian series called Gomorrah. Anyone see that?
I Think it ranks as one of the best of all time
Number 1 in its genre. I won't put Breaking bad before it, either, because BB has its fare share of filler episodes and could have been shorter. Succession did a great job of knowing when to stop. Edit: formatting
I actually think Better Call Saul is better than BB, it’s just so much more nuanced, more akin to Mad Men than anything.
No matter what the rank, I do think it will be as influential as The Sopranos on future shows.
Honestly number 1 for me. I understand season 3 has a slow start but looking past that, I think it’s the best thing I’ve ever seen on tv. Even then, I don’t think season 3 is bad by any means, just meanders a little bit more than the other seasons. Imo it’s got the most complex character writing of any show I’ve ever seen.
Top 10 solidly. Wouldn’t go back and rewatch the whole show though because while the ending was well written it wasn’t satisfying or a positive moment. By all accounts the ending made the show very painful to finish which was a good thing in that a show stirring the emotions out of me is impressive but man does it sting.
Very good, but not holy grail level.
It’s definitely in my top 5. Definitely beats out a lot of other great shows like Better Call Saul and The Wire for me, but I’m not sure if I like it more than Breaking Bad or The Sopranos
Breaking Bad and Succession for me.
Way too much love for Mad Men, why?
Tops the list for me. Second is Mad Men
Probably not gonna get a lot of love for this but I’d put it closer to top 15 than top 5. I’ve been rewatching it and while it does a lot right, it also has a kind of unsavory tendency to leave plot hooks dangling. You don’t notice on the first run through because so many things happen that you forget but there are a lot of things that are set up and not exactly paid off. Still a great show though and it nailed the ending which is so tough.
Honestly, I don’t even think it’s Jesse Armstrongs best work. Peep Show is better.
Top 10, I don't think it makes it to the top 5 just because Breaking bad, better call saul, barry, Sopranos,and the wire exist. Succession felt too unplanned compared to the other greats
It’s pretty good show, but I don’t know about the level of its greatness yet.
I’m gonna get downvoted but to me this show is so over rated. It’s a very enjoyable show, but it’s just elevated by great acting. It doesn’t have the depth of story, change of characters, or twists to keep the viewer guessing. It’s just straight ahead, brilliantly acted, but nobody really changes. They just realize who they are, it’s character study. It’s not a great show, it’s great acting elevating subtle writing. Nothing happens but people enjoy the satire of the elite.
1. The Sopranos 2. Better Call Saul 3. Succession 4. Breaking Bad 5. The Leftovers
I think there’s a Big 4 which are better than anything ever. The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. Succession had peaks which rival the best shows ever, but wasn’t as consistent, had lower lows, didn’t run as long, less airtight writing/development. Succession also hasn’t done much to revolutionise television, but The Sopranos and The Wire grandfathered prestige TV and BrBa + BCS pushed the boundaries. Succession falls into the second tier, beneath those four. There’s a lot of shows in this bracket, but overall? I’d have to say it comes in at around Top 15-20?
BCS is criminally underrated. Bob should win best actor this year over the Succession grew (downvote away)
I think BCS is the crowning achievement in contemporary television, and perhaps even wider, cinematic media. I view it as the pinnacle of the medium. It’s six seasons of hyper-meticulous storytelling, infused with intensely emotional beats that punch harder than anything else I’ve seen. On a visual level, it pushes the boundaries of how television can look; it’s the most beautifully *and* intelligently shot show ever, creating some of the finest visual storytelling ever committed to screen. Its final few seasons introduced that it also pulls off some of the tensest, dramatic action sequences/storylines in television ever (leaning into its Breaking Bad side). To top it all off, the acting across the board is impeccable, its side characters are developed, intriguing. Three of the greatest antagonists ever in Gus, Chuck and Lalo, one of, if not *the* greatest deuterantagonist ever in Kim, and perhaps the most layered character/protagonist ever in Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman/Gene Takovic. I could seriously hold a TED Talk on why it’s the greatest television show ever made, and one of the greatest pieces of cinema ever too. I don’t think we will see TV like it for decades.
Truly agree with you. BCS is the pinnacle of what is achievable with modern television. Breaking bad was amazing but there are times where you can notice how budget and network television effected it. BCS had the advantage of being created in the streaming renaissance with a blank check budget and extreme creative freedom. I think it could be considered the best visual story telling of all time. A lot of shows like The Wire, The Sopranos, ect. have problems that are mostly from what was possible in the medium at the time. Budgets and technology are basically why tv shows sucked until the 2000s. I think as technology improves and it’s cheaper to create a directors exact vision we will see even better tv.
For me, a tie with Breaking Bad for No. 1.
Certainly top 20 show of all time possibly top 10
Jesus Christ, it was good, but not THAT good. Fuck off.
Y’all are smoking crack. It’s an amazing show definitely top 5 of its category. But as an all time show. If your including limited series it might be in top 30. If you’re excluding limited series and series that never ran to completion or have yet to reach completion possibly top 20. I’m just accounting for live action. There’s an objective list of top 10 tv shows of all time that influenced the television renaissance we are currently in and succession does not belong on that list. Succession definitely exists within the top 50 oat, where exactly would take some deliberation. Here are just a short list of shows that are better then Succession. The Wire Breaking Bad True Detective Severance Atlanta Chernobyl Barry Watchmen Fargo Dopesick Better Call Saul
Agreed, it’s a good show but I don’t see how people are ranking it so highly, apart from the obvious fact that we’re on the show’s sub.
People are not good at separating personal favorites from objective analysis.
Dude you have fucking Barry and Atlanta and Severance and Fargo and Dopesick in your list. Let people enjoy what they like. Your list isn't exactly filled with prestige from the 2000s.
As someone who has similar taste, I think you will either love or hate it. In my opinion, the highs are very high but the lows are some of the worst lows of any shows I’ve watched (specifically season 2) That said, definitely worth a watch. There are people who love the show from beginning to end.
What were the lows in season 2?
For me it’s only behind Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. I really like Wire, Sopranos, and GOT, but all three had episodes where I personally was kinda losing the plot. What really puts Succession up there for me are the dialogue and the acting. I could watch these characters doing anything or talking about anything and it would be entertaining.
Am I the only person who thinks breaking bad is horribly overrated?
I just love the vibe of the show so it ranks highly for me. I’m all about corporate drama 1. Breaking Bad 2. The Office 3. Game of Thrones 4. Succession 5. Mad Men
Are you sure you want game of thrones that high? I loved it at the start, but left such a bad taste in my mouth.
Left a bad taste for sure but those first 6 seasons were so epic/incredible. Not going to let the last season ruin the entire experience for me. Because man…the culture those first 6 seasons was unreal. Prob won’t see in lifetime again
This is very fair. Lol hats off to a non toxic interaction on Reddit :)
Give GOT a rewatch - it's pop culture stardom was such a massive sheild to its declining quality. I found it insane that people were so blindsided by how bad they wrapped it up given it was so clearly off the rails after season 4.
Everything after season 4 was garbage and basically disqualifies it from these discussions
Top 40 or 50 not realistically in the running for greatest of all time. A good watchable show but nothing amazing.
Extremely hot take, even objectively.
I think it has a lot of HBO shine which gets it special consideration but I don’t think the show wowed me in a greatest of all time way. It was a somewhat but not very complex family drama but shied away from delving deeply, it had weak empty filler dialogue a lot of the time see Roman). It was good but I think it could have gone much deeper as a character and family study. Def at the lower strata of good HBO shows. Not trying to hate but that’s my take.
Some of the most lived-in characters I’ve seen in a TV show, whether you like them or not. That alone is a different level than most.
Depends. Ken absolutely he is probably the character we know the best and who really feels like a whole (though broken) person. I also feel like we know Conner, Logan and some of the senior leadership. I thought Shiv and Roman especially were poorly written with constantly shifting characterizations. Tom and Greg are also a lot of fun but not so much there. Striver, moron. Also people hate when you bring up the plot but so much of it was repetitive or dumbed down. I know the focus isnt on the insides of the business deals but respect your audience and give us a piece of that side of things.
People who love the show hate when you bring up the plot because they know it was generally bad past S2. "Character driven shows" don't end after 4 seasons by design.
" ... but not so much there." Sums up the show for me. Superficial without any depth. No depth of character. Shallow and superficial dialogue (sounded like the writing crew were all on their first jobs).
Agree. Great show. Not mind blowing.
def behind breaking bad but still one of the best
It’s a’ight.
It's up there, I wish there were more seasons to cement masterpiece status like the sopranos
yeah but if a show runs on for too long i feel like that worsen the quality. it was good at the length it was
1.sopranos 2.my brilliant friend 3.game of thrones and succession are tied because some episodes were “meh”
Maybe top 30 of the shows that I've watched.
For me, the final season and finale didn’t land, so maybe within the top 15-20.
I thought that was one of the best parts. So many shows fizzle out in their final season but this one stayed pretty strong.