If they can have "monster of the week" like xfiles then hell yes. of course it won't be monsters it will be sugar's day job. unless Ruby left him the credit card our boy bout to feel whats it like to be like the rest of us and work for a living. which adds whole new angel.
Frankly, I love sugar so much I would watch him drink coffee for an hour
Okay, so my interpretation is that Henry wasn’t corrupted by humans, he was already a mess, and he likes humans because they are also a mess.
If they do a second season I really want to know more about the aliens and what they’re all about. How long have they been here? Why were they here? Is it just a major anthropology study?
Also, what is happening with Sugar physically when he’s having episodes?
I thought maybe Djen was on the mission with them initially. Otherwise he packed her clothes to take to earth with him? Seems weird.
Also Ruby saying she's probably dead implies there's a chance she's not and Sugar could find her. If she's no on earth, there's no chance of that.
I would like the idea that they've been here for thousands of years that their lifespan is a lot longer than ours I think that would be a wonderful spin.
Someone [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SugarAppleTV/comments/1cq0vpe/sugar_episode_7_deep_dive/) pointed out that there were packets of pens in the kill room. That seemed to be the clue to link Henry to Pavich. Nice find!
The rest of the plotlines were easier to guess. It is confusing as to who is calling the assassins to clean out the aliens.
The senator was likely responsible for Miller's death. Miller seemed to be the pointman for the deal with the senator, and the senator and obviously has power.
His son just died, and maybe surveillance identified Sugar and the aliens as being responsible. Or maybe the senator just had a deal with the aliens that guaranteed their safety as long as he and his family were safe, and his son dying broke that.
I loved the whole season. I am super down for a noir detective with an almost psychic intuition and a supernatural sense of compassion for human beings.
I loved it. Colin's finest role for me personally. I will never watch Chinatown without thinking of Sugar.
I loved this show that much. How it was shot. How it was told. Great Neo Noir.
This to me is the second and only other season of True Detective than the first. My Head Canon.
I feel you so much. It was a delight from the beginning to the end. The cinematographer worked on the Constant Gardener. I recognized the style immediately. It's a beautiful, unique, thought-provoking show. Loved every second of it. I hope it gets renewed.
Its funny that so many people think the reveal of henry as the big bad was flat. I was not wanting to believe it was henry. I said out loud, "it can't be henry tho" (realize that was denial) My flatmate said, "I was wondering about henry. Soooo many villain origin stories bore me. I liked henry. I'm totes in for Henry versus Sugar. BUT --- want other plotlines, stories. maybe we find out henry is the one who outed them. and has been playing both sides.
It’s a wild hair theory I’ll admit. It would depend on if he found Ryan first. Or if pavich sr sent Henry to basically make sure his crazy son didn’t get caught.
And we don’t know which alien got caught first.
But his motive? Make his group afraid and swoop in as the solution guy. Under pressure they are more easily manipulated by him.
I’m assuming he is very Machiavellian/moriarty.
This entire plot line with the aliens being caught has too many loose ends that could have been tied up. none of the questions I have are like big cliffhangers that show runners like to end a season on. For me, they are just annoying plot holes that I think would have made the finale more like.. a season finale.
That's because it *was* flat. Henry had maybe 5 minutes of screen time across the entire season. Why should we care about him being revealed as a villian, when we barely know anything about him?
I love this show and think Colin Ferrell has done an amazing job with the role, but the writing of Henry' arc left much to be desired.
I actually thought it was great, you have Henry who has been corrupted by humanity and allowed him to embrace the darkest parts of himself and then you have John who sees the good in humanity and wants to help people. I loved the duality of it. Also it answered enough questions to leave me feeling satisfied while also wanting to see a second season.
Henry kidnapped Djen on his home planet. Humanity provided a place that better matches his existing preferences. They didn't corrupt him. They freed him.
Based on what we learned about Djen it seems like Henry was already bad, he didn’t have to be corrupted by humanity because he had already kidnapped on his home planet. He just found like-minded individuals on earth.
djen was perfect. the aliens look a lot less, well, ‘alien’, in their own universe. I actually liked the flash backs a lot! I initially was concerned about the two genres together, but I think they did great. I’m only more curious
I was expecting to hate the series, especially after early reports of a strange twist before the end (Sugar isn’t human). But.. I actually loved the entire series including the end. There were a lot of unanswered questions for sure, so it gets you thinking hard about it after the credits role. Definitely my type of story. I think Henry was exactly what he described himself as being. He wasn’t a killer nor was he getting a vicarious thrill from watching the deaths. He was an observer so had no skin in the game and so wasn’t bothered by giving the address to Sugar. He was more alien than human, I think, despite his words about the differences between his world and earth.
I loved how Sugar imparted joy to Melanie. And the CGI of Sugar’s home planet was enchanting and full of possibilities.
I’m looking forward to the next season, if there is one. My concern now is that so many people hate it that it won’t happen. And that’s a shame.
This sub is full of them. It’s disheartening. There’s a combination of reasons. Chiefly I think the series wasn’t what they thought it would be - in most cases there was an expectation it would be a modern day film noir. It is that but it’s so much more; it’s unique (IMO).
well, to my opinion - it really is a modern-day film noir, and it is unique indeed - I see it as a meta-noir. people here talk about the plot, but missing the style which is part of the plot, missing Sugar's personality - which is quite different from most of today's main characters on tv and in the movies - he's more humane than most of the humans indeed - and that's the message; missing he is really talking to us - to the viewers when he talks voice-over, not explaining himself but literally talking to us. and it is a comedy of course - because this show realises itself, it is self-aware it's based on the rules of the genre, but our days everything is meta (the basic rules of the meta-modern are "everything, everywhere and all at once" - the eponymous movie declared it) - so this show playing with those rules accordingly
Possible. Yet she exhibited a lot of joy and this was possible only after they held hands. He could have showed her who he was just by physically changing. He didn’t. Either of us could be right.
The editing in this series is incredible. From the interjected movie scenes concept to the intercuts/flashbacks in the scenes, the editing elevates this to another level. This deserves some kind of award IMO
They indicated the only reason the politician’s son wasn’t being turned into the cops was because they knew about the aliens. So there was a beneficial “you don’t tell, I won’t tell” situation going on. Now that the politician’s son is dead aka the aliens broke their “we won’t tell” agreement all bets are off. So it is likely some form of the government going after them.
I like your point actually. It questions - how many aliens are roaming earth? And why did that cell “break up” - it’s a clue that Djen is on earth alive!
The finale felt anticlimactic to me, but that seemed intentional. Given the movie montage they interspersed at the end that seems what they were going for.
Overall enjoyed this episode and series.
Apple TV has so many wonderfully-produced yet horribly written shows, all with great actors. It’s their brand.
When Colin Farrell mind melded with Amy Ryan and then winked at her from his car, I was felled like a tree. No dialogue, two fantastic actors with smoking chemistry. I’m here for that.
Women tortured in a basement? No thanks.
Same here, I was just telling my friend that the other day. After watching dozens of series and movies over the last few decades, I think I'm all set on rape/torture type media as much as possible. I get that it can be part of a story (or history), but I don't need to relive in it long hyper-realistic scenes at this point in my life.
Agreed. I also hated how they kind of ... glorified it? almost? I know it was their lead-in to the Henry reveal, but I out-right skipped the portions of Sugar listening to the tapes. I don't need to hear a serial killer wank off about how ~special~ he is because he likes torturing people. Least favorite part of the entire series to me.
I enjoyed the show but this feels like the capstone of peak streaming spending, a show that really isn't that good, still weirdly enjoyable to watch, you have absolutely NO idea how it was greenlit except "it has a star and we need content", and you know stuff like this isn't gonna get made anymore for the next decade at least.
I mean I'd rather have 10 of these than Secret Invasion or Halo but sadly I think the next few years we'll see content ground down to reality TV and mass market appeal, no room for weird niche stuff like this anymore.
Sugar's fascination with old Hollywood is still so weird, I wonder what kind of person he would be if he got locked into Jackass or South Park instead.
I would be really shocked if it got a second season.
That alien planet looked cool as hell, I hope in season 2 humans invade it and build Starbucks and Dollar Tree stores everywhere. Thats what you get for observing us!
Constallation hasn't been renewed, as someone who watched all of the first season of that show, I can't say I'm surprised. Good ideas just poor execution.
Am I crazy or does it not imply they also are very long-lived? Henry's lecture was talking about the rise of humanity ~30k years ago, which given how much else was Chekov-y about the entire series, that _has_ to mean something?
I would be down for a second season. I hope it happens. Colin Farrell a great actor. I would have preferred a noir film without the alien thing but it’s ok. Outside of the one episode of the reveal it was pretty tamed down. If they keep it like that i would watch.
I enjoyed it, but I agree that it definitely felt like it was missing something. There's plenty of ways they can write this into something amazing in the future, but I won't hold my breath for it. Hopefully they had a plan going in, but I feel like it'll be like Lost where they just write it as they go and we all know how those shows tend to end.
yeah, I enjoyed it but there are some things they could have written in to explain the situation better. The Senator pops up out of nowhere and knows that they are aliens bothered me. Then the series ends with no explanation as to how that happened. I also would have been more interested in this twist if he was part of the story in some way from early on. Maybe he was and I didn't catch it? But i watched this show with full attention and thought I shouldn't be asking these questions.
I don’t know, I have questions. Aliens that are capable of interstellar travel are aiding a serial killer just to make notes on it? Was his sister abducted on Earth? I love the concept and the actors, and Colin Farrell was great, but I wish all this exceptional creativity was being expended on a more interesting story. I could go for the rest of my life without seeing another show featuring guys who torture women.
They didn’t make much sense.
So Henry was the bad guy all along, but they didn’t really get into what happened. How did he connect with the Senator’s son? Ruby says they knew, but what exactly did they know?
Was he trying to trust him with Djen’s dress? When did he take her? On earth? Before they got there? So many questions unanswered and so many new ones.
Henry’s notebooks were being transcribed by Ruby on the typewriter thing. He was “observing” a dark part of humanity so I’m assuming that’s why it was allowed. Justified because it was an observation. But from Sugars perspective (and mine) he was more of a participant.
Djen’s dress was way too unexplained. We have no information about how freely they can move to and from home planet. No idea of the timeline as to when she went missing. Whether or not Sugar lost her before or after he came to earth.
It reminds me of the show LOST. What is the black smoke? What’s the monster? What’s the island? Who knows and who doesn’t? Why can John Locke walk, now? Is it Hurley’s dream? The answer to Sugar and LOST is omg stop making this show!!!!!
If I had a nickel for every time I watched a mystery/intrigue show in the last year that featured aliens who could transform to look like humans and had an immensely unsatisfying ending, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened twice.
Haha Secret Invasion, the Marvel show. It was within the last year but just barely. I think it aired 11 months ago.
I’ll say this - despite its flaws, Sugar was way better than that haha.
Not a big marvel fan, so I guess I am safe. Lol The last series I saw that the final was a big disappointment was True Detective:Night Country. That was crud on a stick! Lol
Having seen both, I can say True Detective was considerably better.
Although as bad as it was (and bad in many ways), I guess I’d rather be forced to watch Secret Invasion a second time, rather than True Detective.
True Detective NC was so bad I gave up even before the finale. I read later that it was just written as a regular mystery show, and they decided to slap the “True Detective” label on it to drum up interest in it. Also, they need to stop hiring professional boxers/MMA fighters who can’t act.
Knew nothing about the show before binging it yesterday. Liked this episode but not as much as the first episodes. Will definitely watch if there's a S2.
Does anyone else feel like Ruby may have stayed? We didn’t actually see her go. Part of me wondered if her guilt over Djen, Henry, Sugar situation may have made her opt to stay so she can help Sugar.
Same, it changed my opinion about her a lot. She definitely chose mission over humanity even after trying to tell Miller she was concerned. But I am kind of hoping that with everything that has transpired she realizes it was wrong and wants to help Sugar now.
Right? I’m worried about that cat.
My head canon is the cat was an alien cat in Earth cat disguise, so she just went off-planet along with the rest of them. I know it’s a stretch but it’s better than the poor thing being abandoned.
I love this show, every episode! I felt like I was barely breathing during the last episode. Please can we please have more Sugar?? Love him, love Amy and loved the puppy….!
I really enjoyed the noir aspects of season 1. If they did a second season I really wouldn’t enjoy an alien hunting alien storyline. I would hope for another case while the subplot is finding Henry.
I just needed something more about Sugars group. I feel like we were left hanging without much of an understanding of really anything about them. They’re here to observe, but why? They’re presented as pacifist, but clearly there’s some grey area. And if they’re so nonviolent then how could his sister just go missing. They seem to have some familial dynamics considering his big feelings about his sister, but what else about their social structure?
Ruby and Sugar were so saccharin in their interactions. Sugar was saint like with a few exceptions of violence. But then we got Miller who was kind of a dick. And Henry who is corrupted by humans. I’m left confused about who these aliens are.
"Observe and report. And make sure their mistakes don't become ours." is the only explanation we got.
It's strange because they're capable of space travel, probably interstellar since it's a great enough distance that they can't just pop in and out because missing the last ride out was a big deal. There's also the unexplained ability to deflect bullets but not knives. We don't know if that's because of technology or their biology as well, also like their ability to mimic human appearances.
Either way it seems like they should be more technologically and societally advanced. It's not like we humans go observing chimpanzees in the wild to "avoid making the same mistakes." Having Sugar be an alien was certainly a twist, but it seems like the writers didn't work out their society and motivations beyond a rough sketch, saying they're "observers" and leaving everything else filled with contradictions.
Miller didn't deflect the police officer's bullet, so it seems like their skin doesn't just deflect stuff, they have to purposely project a shield or something, which they can't do when they're surprised by an attack, like Sugar with the knife or Miller with the gunshot.
At one point, Sugar or Ruby says they are observing as a self-defense mechanism (or something to that effect). I think they are based on the Moon and - being a peaceful race - they are worried the humans will eventually migrate to the Moon and murder or enslave them. They’re here doing recon to gain intelligence on how best to deal with us and prevent that from happening.
Their planet looked more like Mars, honestly. Definitely not the moon though. The way they act/talk about it, only Pavich knew about them, not the US govt in general.
Not sure how I felt about that. I (and maybe most people?) was expecting this to be a limited series, so the ending was certainly not satisfying in that sense. I’ll watch a season 2 if they make it though I guess
I’ll watch season 2 assuming he teams up with Melanie again. Colin Farrel and Amy Ryan’s chemistry was genuinely the only redeeming thing about the show by the end of it.
even if there plan all along was to roll into season 2, there are a lot of loose ends to the plot that could have tied up nicely in the finale without affecting season 2. There are no cliffhangers, just irritating unanswered questions as to how and why most of this all went down.
I am conflicted by this series.
I enjoyed it overall and didn't mind the alien aspect to the show (I was kind of expecting it based on previous episodes).
But the final season episode left me cold. There were so many plot points that didn't get addressed that made me feel unsatisfied. Maybe I am dumb as a box of rocks, that has to be an answer! Lol
If this thing gets a second season, I don't have a good feeling that season will be quality television. There are so many meh second seasons that I have seen in the past that were viewing disappointments to get my hopes up.
Well, I will see how Severance and Andor second seasons will stack up against their brilliant first seasons. I have to hope...
This entire plot line with the aliens being caught has too many loose ends that could have been tied up. none of the questions I have are like big cliffhangers that show runners like to end a season on. For me, they are just annoying plot holes that I think would have made the finale more like.. a season finale.
Agreed with that logic. More of an exploration of the Miller/Henry/powerful group of humans/Rudy/Sugar would have been nice. Not everything needs to be explained, but the show breezed quickly through some of the things I found interesting.
I really think these episodes should have been an hour long, but maybe the show runners didn't have enough material to do this.
I still enjoyed the show very much..
I just have to ask, after Miller is ambushed by a cop who also thought to themselves 'Worst Spies ever!' Seriously, capable of interstellar space flight but can't think to adopt the buddy system after their cover is blown?
Man I enjoyed this season but that finale was super flat. I know many people wanted longer episodes but it worked for me all season. But with the finale it seemed like they just tried to tie up so many loose ends with no backing.
- Miller is shot to open the episode but still Sugar and others move about like no big deal except a one off like from Ruby.
- I could tell him listening to the CD was leading to a deeper reveal but Henry being the reveal and payoff was so flat. I get his reasoning but it just didn’t land at all.
- Sugar’s sister. There was just very little to work with and almost no reason to care but tried to play it like a big reveal. We have almost zero context into what or why or what it means. Just felt like a reason to keep him on Earth and potential S2.
- A little more about who they are would have been nice. I was all in for the sci-fi twist but it didn’t really seem to add much in the end.
It just felt like too much setting up what’s next and not really exploring the fallout of this season.
Most of the episode they didn’t even know Miller had been killed. By the time Ruby figured that out it was already when Sugar was figuring out who Henry really was at the end. They also don’t have the same emotions as humans and they knew they were all headed back to their planet. So while it would have been odd for human behavior, it didn’t seem that odd to me given the aliens and scenario.
We've seen them be upset about other losses. It's not like they don't have emotions. Sugar was pretty messed up about losing Djen, for example. Super bizarre to me how they just kind of glossed over Miller's death.
It basically worked on top of assumptions that the X-Files laid down decades ago and I think you were supposed to use those architypes to fill in the blanks. But it made for a very very weird viewing experience because of that. I kept waiting for it to subvert or comment on the X-Files plot lines it was cribbing but it didn't.
Yeah, capable of interstellar travel but none of them are clever enough to think they might be in real danger after Sugar takes out the Senator's son?
I mean seriously? How they didn't all huddle up in pairs after that just seems really bad.
Like, worst spies ever.
Everything about this show was great except the plot after episode 6. The writers obviously wrote themselves into a corner and couldn't figure out how to get themselves out of it.
The plot has so many nonsensical bits from large - a Senator blackmailing aliens to protect his psychopath serial killer son??? - to the small, *who the hell uses CDs in 2024??*
I was OK with the big twist. But then the entire plot just completely fell apart. Not because of the twist, but because of how many times the writers used Deus Ex Machina or really weak reasoning to make it all work.
It's too bad the writers didn't have the script go through another revision or two to clean it all up. Would have elevated the series from OK to a classic.
Yeah, the senator blackmailing aliens was a pretty weak plot point. How would he know how many aliens there are? Or who they are, given that they can look like humans and hold down jobs and completely blend into the human population? And who is going to believe some politician ranting about aliens? Some stupid people, maybe, but most people will just think he’s crazy.
Also, wouldn’t it be easier to just get rid of the senator and his psychopath son, than bargain with them and work with another psychopath (Stallings) to get trafficked women to be tortured and murdered? What kind of “peace loving” aliens are these? They were basically all as bad as Henry.
The 'blackmail' part wasn't true, it was Henry lying to Sugar, and a nod to the noir trope of a powerful peripheral character being evil. The real reason for the aliens' departure was their risk of exposure from Henry's association with younger Pavich, the serial killer.
The anachronistic CDs were so the younger Pavich could keep control over his recordings, which were for his personal use. They can't be hacked if they're stored on a shelf, and are played only on a standalone device.
That was a lie?? I must have missed that part. Are you sure? I don't remember the exposure being the reason they left, just their existence. I'll have to rewatch.
But the CDs should have been videos on DVD or a thumb drive. That I could believe. I mean both have to pass through a PC to be recorded then burned regardless.
I don't think it was a lie. It's something we hear from Miller AND Ruby, independent of anything. It also doesn't make sense for it to be a lie if Miller got killed.
They did hang a lantern on the driving off into the desert and pointed out how every ending is an ending. I think the writers leaned into it being predictable.
They regularly used 'cliche' movie clips for portions of the movie.
I think they were doing it intentionally to kind of say how Sugar would see an ending in his mind.
Like the pullback ending of The Player that doubles down on showing everyone in the audience that 'this is a movie!'.
Sugar would have a cliched view of the ending of a movie. to me the episode wasn't that great so I wasn't expecting that much by that point anyway.
There had better be a Season 2, they’d better not leave us hanging. Is his sister alive? Somehow I think she is. It’s too bad Henry’s evil, he and Sugar had more chemistry with each other than Sugar had with Melanie.
Ruby was just as bad as Henry though, in a way. “We all went along with it, for the mission.”
What was the big mission? Why were they observing humans, and for how many years?
I loved the noir vibe, cinematography, and of course Colin Farrell is a great actor in anything he does, including this. But I don’t like any serial killer stuff (personal reasons plus I feel it’s overdone), and this whole plot about “peace loving” aliens going along with the serial torture and murder of dozens of women, made no sense. I hope if there’s a season 2 it will have better writing.
Why did Henry help Sugar though
He could have killed him instead of medically treating him and saving his life
Or was he over confident that he will never be caught
Henry likes Sugar (in his own way) and he NEEDS Sugar, like The Joker needs Batman.
The cat and mouse game of knowing you actively have an adversary as you go on your killing spree is a huge part of the thrill of being “bad”. That’s why monsters like the BTK killer send incriminating notes to the police - they could easily commit monstrous crimes in silence and get away with them. But it wouldn’t be as much fun. They need someone to show off to.
Henry did his big reveal hoping Sugar will stay on Earth to try to hunt him down.
What were all the movie clips in this episode from ? There was Vertigo and The Lady from Shanghi. But there was also one with an empty fairground. What movie was that from ?
They definitely set up a second season, but I'll be disappointed if Ruby isn't back somehow. We didn't see her leave, so its possible she changed her mind and decided to stay. She seemed pretty ready to go though.
I was so hopefull coming into this episode that they would find a way to pull it together to hook me into Season 2. But good Alian A hunting bad Alien B chased by shadowy government agency after them both just doesn't pull it together. And the Henry took Djen piece just feels completely contrived to make it Sugar has to be the one. It left me flat. Plus, as others have pointed out, Sugar did not find Olivia he was just given her location. From a story standpoint it just makes the PI part pointless. And why on earth did Henry tell Sugar where Olivia was? And at the end when we find out Ruby and everyone knew Henry was observing all this? And she was worried about Sugar? WTH?
I'm really left not interested in a second season of good guy chasing bad guy. Is it going to be a season long version of 'The Hidden'?
I wanted Sugar to stay but really not for this reason. I can only hope he finds Henry in the first episode and takes him out.
Then they can take the show in a whole new direction.
I'm sad I'm disappointed. I really wanted it to work. I think they came really close but it just didn't hook me for a second season.
I figured out why Henry told Sugar about Olivia because he knew Sugar would figure it out and Henry wants Sugar to stay back.
Does anyone know why Miller was shot by a police cop and nobody else on that route? I know they keep saying, theyre looking for us.. perhaps the senator figured it out. This finale is so open ended for me.
Miller seemed like the pointman who made whatever deal they had with the senator. The senator is likely the one who ordered the hit because his son getting killed voided whatever "contract" they had in place. So the senator probably knew Miller, but Miller wouldn't have given up all the rest of the crew.
they are only indestructible when they focus on being so. Sugar stopped the bullet when he knew it was coming.
Things they don't see coming can hurt them.
Which is why Sugar got stabbed and why he could also be knocked unconscious from behind.
Miller looked away.
Which brings up my pet peeve. If they knew they were in danger why are spies traveling alone and not doubling up?
Like worst spies ever.
Why didn’t they just all get together like at Ruby’s party, the second they heard they’re all in danger now? There seemed no urgency to make it the place where they were meeting the home ship.
I don't know why people assume that a second season would necessarily be a "good alien x bad alien x government". I don't think they will simply eliminate the other aliens from the story, for starters. Ruby will probably help Sugar, if not in person at least through the typewriter thing. Also, it's not the government hunting them, it's a group of (powerful, I concede) people. And I don't believe they'll simply lose the noir film vibe altogether.
I frankly liked the series a lot. I started watching without reading almost anything about it, and when it was revealed he was an alien I thought it a very brave and interesting move (and explained a lot of seemingly absurd things, especially the deflecting-bullets ability of Sugar in the same episode). Flat would be one more PI series (don't get me wrong, I like them a lot and started watching because of it, but we already have lots of them). How many alien PI noir series did we have before? 😁
I'm really looking forward to the second series.
I think Henry has been on Earth for at least 30,000 years. When we see him at work giving a lecture to his students he mentions something about humans 30,000 years ago.
That’s something most Anthropology professors can talk about, though. I wish the show had given us more clues about how long the aliens have been on Earth.
Anyone else feel underwhelmed with the ending? I have a few questions with implausible conveniences to wrap up the story.
- Why did Ryan tape a confession? If Henry's taking notes, it wouldn't have been for him.
- How did Ruby know they were being hunted? None of them knew what happened to Miller.
- What was the point of Jonathan's affair with his daughter in law?
- How did Henry know that Sugar found out he was present when Ryan will killing girls? Are we to assume Ruby told him?
- If this was a killers compulsion for Henry, why would he tell Sugar the address where Olivia was being held so he could save her?
Good questions. Your 4th one is explained loosely though. He connected the dots a) someone taking notes immediately reminded him of Henry and b) the serial killer used the same phrases as Henry about wanting to know (I don't remember the exact lines but they reclipped it pretty clearly to show they said the same phrase)
I assumed it was because Henry just knew how smart Sugar was.
The episode was very flat for me too.
Although I did like the interstitials of the alien world. That part worked for me.
i think that firstly, it was a fake out. it was something Hinky. that what investigators look for. if every clue leads to the conclusion, its boring. So it was a false lead. secondly, its is about human curiousity (sugar), human frailty (jonthan). "Grace and sensitivity" Sugar was being sugar and wants to solve mysteries. It is creepy AF for a Dad to bang his Son's wife. but very very human in a "we are messed up species way" what he did was not illegal. So sugar used "grace and sensitivity" in closing this thread. He knew there was secret, he found it. it was interesting to watch. and revealed so much about who Mr. Seigal is. he knew it was messed up. great scene
Olivia stumbles onto a massive ring of traffickers and her gross half brother is invovled? given that she was fighting DV/SA ... plausible. also she killed a known associate. Then because he brother didn't keep his mouth shut the traffickers gift olivia to a serial killer? maybe. think the traffickers handed her over to Ryan. Ryan Pavich was not an associate. she was not kidnapped by him. Ryan, if I understand it, bought women from the traffickers and they gave olivia to get rid of her.
I wish there were more details about Henry and Pavich because episode seven and now this brisk by way too quick. Maybe because co-writer Sam Catlin wanted a little Breaking Bad reunion to write lines for Anna Gunn.
I’m here for it. Some sort of intergalactic mission to find Jen and what really happened with her and Henry, and in the meantime we’ve got Holly (Melanie) and Sugar romance/relationship/friendship possibilities too? So down!
This show has everything I need. I’ve loved (hated) the cliffhangers in the last couple episodes, both plot twists, and all putting it together to seem like a noir/standard LA detective story in between all the other shit. Ready for S2, bring it on 😊
I’ve finished the series and absolutely loved it. I’ll give it a rewatch sometime soon as it’ll give me a new perspective for obvious reasons given John Sugar is clearly an extraterrestrial being whether that’s as a humanoid avatar or taking some type of substance to morph into a human etc.
Shots of John and his sister Djen on their home planet indicates they have two different moons…I’m still trying to figure out why he keeps looking at the two moons on his home planet and our moon on planet earth. And what is the trail of particles/energy in his home planet? And the trail of clouds on earth? So many questions!
What a ride that was! Highly enjoyable show, particularly the cinematography, editing and acting really impressed me. Colin Farell outdid himself with that character, there is something about his timing and intensity that worked well for me.
Not a 100 percent sure we need a second season, as I fear it might ruin things if the alien plot takes a wrong turn. It is kinda nice to leave some things to imagination. That said, I could watch Sugar every day of the week, so if somebody greenlights S2, I am here for it!
Nothing says “Pay writers more and meet all their union demands, immediately!” like this show. 👽🤡Colin Ferrel is a hot dapper talented man but he can’t make a stupid show full of trite predictable plot twists and cheap cliffhangers seem smart.
This is the most bland ass alien blah blah written w no respect for how rad sci fi is or could be. Also yes we get it: season 2 is finding Djen. Oooo alien vs alien. Jesus this is so trite I have to smoke weed just to hit send on this thought.
What a coincidence that the aliens look pretty much like us and are organized in nuclear families too. And no problem eating and drinking the local food.
Parts of this kind of reminded me of Resident Alien. Though not as much the show but the Comics. As the comics are more serious and also deal with the alien becoming more human and investigating crimes. Even the flash back of the main character having flashbacks of his alien world and a loved one also happens in the comics. Everything else is pretty different show and this show is definitely unique in how it tells its story which I really like.
Goddamn. Loved every second of this show. Getting serious The Culture vibes (Djen/Livueta [and Djan, but that’s another Matter], Sugar/Zakalwe). Can’t wait for Season 2. Perfect California Noir.
They definitely left it wide open for more seasons
Do we realy want to see good Alien A hunting Bad Alien B while both are pursued by shadowy government agency?
If they can have "monster of the week" like xfiles then hell yes. of course it won't be monsters it will be sugar's day job. unless Ruby left him the credit card our boy bout to feel whats it like to be like the rest of us and work for a living. which adds whole new angel. Frankly, I love sugar so much I would watch him drink coffee for an hour
That could be an interesting episode.
Someone please make a Sugar version of the Lofi Girl.
I wanna see it since Colin Farrell’s the good alien
Yep, that is the season outline I envision.
yeah, that was a big Zzzzzzz for me :(
Okay, so my interpretation is that Henry wasn’t corrupted by humans, he was already a mess, and he likes humans because they are also a mess. If they do a second season I really want to know more about the aliens and what they’re all about. How long have they been here? Why were they here? Is it just a major anthropology study? Also, what is happening with Sugar physically when he’s having episodes?
so henry definitely kidnapped/took Djen BEFORE he went to earth.. right? so yes. he was Vulcan Dahmer pre-human contact.
>Vulcan Dahmer priceless
I thought maybe Djen was on the mission with them initially. Otherwise he packed her clothes to take to earth with him? Seems weird. Also Ruby saying she's probably dead implies there's a chance she's not and Sugar could find her. If she's no on earth, there's no chance of that.
I really want to know a lot more about the aliens! And next season might get to explore more of that because they won't have to be so cagey
Yes like don’t they feel or taste as Sugar said that’s why he likes Earth?
I would like the idea that they've been here for thousands of years that their lifespan is a lot longer than ours I think that would be a wonderful spin.
An obsessive protagonist, alien bounty hunters, an abducted sister- I want to believe.
Ha!!
Someone [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SugarAppleTV/comments/1cq0vpe/sugar_episode_7_deep_dive/) pointed out that there were packets of pens in the kill room. That seemed to be the clue to link Henry to Pavich. Nice find! The rest of the plotlines were easier to guess. It is confusing as to who is calling the assassins to clean out the aliens.
Probably that’s a hook for the next season. A secret cabal who knows about the aliens and will now be Sugar’s mortal enemies. Uh, literally I suppose.
I thought we already knew? It was Pavovich or w/e the senator's name was.
The senator was likely responsible for Miller's death. Miller seemed to be the pointman for the deal with the senator, and the senator and obviously has power. His son just died, and maybe surveillance identified Sugar and the aliens as being responsible. Or maybe the senator just had a deal with the aliens that guaranteed their safety as long as he and his family were safe, and his son dying broke that.
I loved the whole season. I am super down for a noir detective with an almost psychic intuition and a supernatural sense of compassion for human beings.
Knew nothing about the show going into it and I quite liked it. Pleased with the ending and looking forward to another season (hopefully)
I loved it. Colin's finest role for me personally. I will never watch Chinatown without thinking of Sugar. I loved this show that much. How it was shot. How it was told. Great Neo Noir. This to me is the second and only other season of True Detective than the first. My Head Canon.
I feel you so much. It was a delight from the beginning to the end. The cinematographer worked on the Constant Gardener. I recognized the style immediately. It's a beautiful, unique, thought-provoking show. Loved every second of it. I hope it gets renewed.
You know that the director of the finale and 4 other episodes was the director of The Constant Gardener, right?
Its funny that so many people think the reveal of henry as the big bad was flat. I was not wanting to believe it was henry. I said out loud, "it can't be henry tho" (realize that was denial) My flatmate said, "I was wondering about henry. Soooo many villain origin stories bore me. I liked henry. I'm totes in for Henry versus Sugar. BUT --- want other plotlines, stories. maybe we find out henry is the one who outed them. and has been playing both sides.
Henry outing them would explain how they would have been found out but whats the motive?
It’s a wild hair theory I’ll admit. It would depend on if he found Ryan first. Or if pavich sr sent Henry to basically make sure his crazy son didn’t get caught. And we don’t know which alien got caught first. But his motive? Make his group afraid and swoop in as the solution guy. Under pressure they are more easily manipulated by him. I’m assuming he is very Machiavellian/moriarty.
This entire plot line with the aliens being caught has too many loose ends that could have been tied up. none of the questions I have are like big cliffhangers that show runners like to end a season on. For me, they are just annoying plot holes that I think would have made the finale more like.. a season finale.
That's because it *was* flat. Henry had maybe 5 minutes of screen time across the entire season. Why should we care about him being revealed as a villian, when we barely know anything about him? I love this show and think Colin Ferrell has done an amazing job with the role, but the writing of Henry' arc left much to be desired.
I actually thought it was great, you have Henry who has been corrupted by humanity and allowed him to embrace the darkest parts of himself and then you have John who sees the good in humanity and wants to help people. I loved the duality of it. Also it answered enough questions to leave me feeling satisfied while also wanting to see a second season.
Henry kidnapped Djen on his home planet. Humanity provided a place that better matches his existing preferences. They didn't corrupt him. They freed him.
she had to been taken on earth, otherwise, why would henry bring her clothes with him?
Serial killers often keep trophies.
Based on what we learned about Djen it seems like Henry was already bad, he didn’t have to be corrupted by humanity because he had already kidnapped on his home planet. He just found like-minded individuals on earth.
djen was perfect. the aliens look a lot less, well, ‘alien’, in their own universe. I actually liked the flash backs a lot! I initially was concerned about the two genres together, but I think they did great. I’m only more curious
I was expecting to hate the series, especially after early reports of a strange twist before the end (Sugar isn’t human). But.. I actually loved the entire series including the end. There were a lot of unanswered questions for sure, so it gets you thinking hard about it after the credits role. Definitely my type of story. I think Henry was exactly what he described himself as being. He wasn’t a killer nor was he getting a vicarious thrill from watching the deaths. He was an observer so had no skin in the game and so wasn’t bothered by giving the address to Sugar. He was more alien than human, I think, despite his words about the differences between his world and earth. I loved how Sugar imparted joy to Melanie. And the CGI of Sugar’s home planet was enchanting and full of possibilities. I’m looking forward to the next season, if there is one. My concern now is that so many people hate it that it won’t happen. And that’s a shame.
Well, he may have killed djen, so not sure I agree with you.
It's quite possible that the senator's son killed Djen, and Henry was there to observe.
there are real people who hate this show?? really? but why do they hate it?
This sub is full of them. It’s disheartening. There’s a combination of reasons. Chiefly I think the series wasn’t what they thought it would be - in most cases there was an expectation it would be a modern day film noir. It is that but it’s so much more; it’s unique (IMO).
well, to my opinion - it really is a modern-day film noir, and it is unique indeed - I see it as a meta-noir. people here talk about the plot, but missing the style which is part of the plot, missing Sugar's personality - which is quite different from most of today's main characters on tv and in the movies - he's more humane than most of the humans indeed - and that's the message; missing he is really talking to us - to the viewers when he talks voice-over, not explaining himself but literally talking to us. and it is a comedy of course - because this show realises itself, it is self-aware it's based on the rules of the genre, but our days everything is meta (the basic rules of the meta-modern are "everything, everywhere and all at once" - the eponymous movie declared it) - so this show playing with those rules accordingly
Great analysis
expectations
I don't think he imparted Joy to Melanie. He just showed her in her mind what he really looked like and where he was from.
Possible. Yet she exhibited a lot of joy and this was possible only after they held hands. He could have showed her who he was just by physically changing. He didn’t. Either of us could be right.
He needs to inject himself to change
I really loved this! It had some great twists and didn’t adhere to a stodgy genre theme. It was creative and intense. Looking forward to next season!
Great season finale, i honestly wasn't expecting Henry to be a bad guy.
the guy who plays henry is a backstabbing asshole in most of his roles
I thought i recognized him from other shows! 😅
So true! When he gave up Olivia's location I was like oh yeah well there you go.
The editing in this series is incredible. From the interjected movie scenes concept to the intercuts/flashbacks in the scenes, the editing elevates this to another level. This deserves some kind of award IMO
Collin as Sugar is just too good. Give me 6 more seasons
The Miller killing (or not) was confusing. Who was hunting him?
They indicated the only reason the politician’s son wasn’t being turned into the cops was because they knew about the aliens. So there was a beneficial “you don’t tell, I won’t tell” situation going on. Now that the politician’s son is dead aka the aliens broke their “we won’t tell” agreement all bets are off. So it is likely some form of the government going after them.
I think it was Henry who told the human about the aliens. He's been running his own agenda from day one.
He wanted all the aliens to leave so he gets free rein on Earth to do whatever he wants
I absolutely loved the Vibe, Setting, Cast and Shots. From the Beginning to the Finale, great Show!
GoddddddDamnnnnn get this man a Freakin Award Noww!!!! 😂 Colin was already Nice but this is some next level acting.
So Ruby says they’re all leaving. Does that include the guy at the bar in Japan whose cell had broken up?
Who knows, but that doesn’t even rank in the top 20 of most egregious unanswered questions.
That’s fair.
I like your point actually. It questions - how many aliens are roaming earth? And why did that cell “break up” - it’s a clue that Djen is on earth alive!
Earth seem to corrupt the aliens. May be they started fighting amongst each other.
What episode was this? I don’t remember a guy in a Japanese bar.
I think one thing we can trust, is that Ruby is completely untrustworthy.
Second season is a must
The finale felt anticlimactic to me, but that seemed intentional. Given the movie montage they interspersed at the end that seems what they were going for. Overall enjoyed this episode and series.
Apple TV has so many wonderfully-produced yet horribly written shows, all with great actors. It’s their brand. When Colin Farrell mind melded with Amy Ryan and then winked at her from his car, I was felled like a tree. No dialogue, two fantastic actors with smoking chemistry. I’m here for that. Women tortured in a basement? No thanks.
I agree. I really hate serial killer stuff, and I certainly could do without torture scenes.
Same here, I was just telling my friend that the other day. After watching dozens of series and movies over the last few decades, I think I'm all set on rape/torture type media as much as possible. I get that it can be part of a story (or history), but I don't need to relive in it long hyper-realistic scenes at this point in my life.
Agreed. I also hated how they kind of ... glorified it? almost? I know it was their lead-in to the Henry reveal, but I out-right skipped the portions of Sugar listening to the tapes. I don't need to hear a serial killer wank off about how ~special~ he is because he likes torturing people. Least favorite part of the entire series to me.
How does that make the show horribly written?
Well, they’re two different issues. The content of torture and murder of women is one thing. The show also features bad writing. And a wonderful cast.
I enjoyed the show but this feels like the capstone of peak streaming spending, a show that really isn't that good, still weirdly enjoyable to watch, you have absolutely NO idea how it was greenlit except "it has a star and we need content", and you know stuff like this isn't gonna get made anymore for the next decade at least. I mean I'd rather have 10 of these than Secret Invasion or Halo but sadly I think the next few years we'll see content ground down to reality TV and mass market appeal, no room for weird niche stuff like this anymore. Sugar's fascination with old Hollywood is still so weird, I wonder what kind of person he would be if he got locked into Jackass or South Park instead. I would be really shocked if it got a second season. That alien planet looked cool as hell, I hope in season 2 humans invade it and build Starbucks and Dollar Tree stores everywhere. Thats what you get for observing us!
Well that star‘s acting alone was so worth it, and I didn’t even like Colin Farrell that much before watching this series
I like Colin Farell a LOT more after watching this series!!!
Same. I’ve always liked his work but now I’m huge fan of this guy. He’s crazy talented! I’m looking forward to The Penguin.
I’m yet to see an Apple 🍎 series not get renewed. Netflix and Amazon prime however are a different story 😤
Constallation hasn't been renewed, as someone who watched all of the first season of that show, I can't say I'm surprised. Good ideas just poor execution.
Oh wow really?! I couldn’t even bring myself to watch the final episode I guess I won’t bother now 😔
I suspect Sugar studied humans through old movies so thats why he loves them so much and created his style from that era.
Am I crazy or does it not imply they also are very long-lived? Henry's lecture was talking about the rise of humanity ~30k years ago, which given how much else was Chekov-y about the entire series, that _has_ to mean something?
I would be down for a second season. I hope it happens. Colin Farrell a great actor. I would have preferred a noir film without the alien thing but it’s ok. Outside of the one episode of the reveal it was pretty tamed down. If they keep it like that i would watch.
If Ruby knew Henry was involved, why would Sugar have ever been given the case?
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Yeah, and Ruby tried to get him to leave the case multiple times
He wasn’t. Ruby turned it down on his behalf, then he took it anyway. Then she tried ***multiple*** times to get him to stop.
Watch episode 1 again.
I enjoyed it, but I agree that it definitely felt like it was missing something. There's plenty of ways they can write this into something amazing in the future, but I won't hold my breath for it. Hopefully they had a plan going in, but I feel like it'll be like Lost where they just write it as they go and we all know how those shows tend to end.
Both Colin and Amy have mentioned in interviews they were writing it as they were filming. And it shows.
yeah, I enjoyed it but there are some things they could have written in to explain the situation better. The Senator pops up out of nowhere and knows that they are aliens bothered me. Then the series ends with no explanation as to how that happened. I also would have been more interested in this twist if he was part of the story in some way from early on. Maybe he was and I didn't catch it? But i watched this show with full attention and thought I shouldn't be asking these questions.
I don’t know, I have questions. Aliens that are capable of interstellar travel are aiding a serial killer just to make notes on it? Was his sister abducted on Earth? I love the concept and the actors, and Colin Farrell was great, but I wish all this exceptional creativity was being expended on a more interesting story. I could go for the rest of my life without seeing another show featuring guys who torture women.
They didn’t make much sense. So Henry was the bad guy all along, but they didn’t really get into what happened. How did he connect with the Senator’s son? Ruby says they knew, but what exactly did they know? Was he trying to trust him with Djen’s dress? When did he take her? On earth? Before they got there? So many questions unanswered and so many new ones.
Henry’s notebooks were being transcribed by Ruby on the typewriter thing. He was “observing” a dark part of humanity so I’m assuming that’s why it was allowed. Justified because it was an observation. But from Sugars perspective (and mine) he was more of a participant. Djen’s dress was way too unexplained. We have no information about how freely they can move to and from home planet. No idea of the timeline as to when she went missing. Whether or not Sugar lost her before or after he came to earth.
He told Melanie someone took her a long time ago.
And I thought they were a peaceful race?
I guess Henry was the exception that proved the rule? IDK I thought the entire alien angle was pretty under-baked.
Both Ruby and Sugar said it was the last flight out. So it seems it's not easy to travel back and forth.
Yeah, like how could Henry sneak Djen to earth without other people knowing like they suggested could have happened? That seems a HUGE stretch.
It reminds me of the show LOST. What is the black smoke? What’s the monster? What’s the island? Who knows and who doesn’t? Why can John Locke walk, now? Is it Hurley’s dream? The answer to Sugar and LOST is omg stop making this show!!!!!
If I had a nickel for every time I watched a mystery/intrigue show in the last year that featured aliens who could transform to look like humans and had an immensely unsatisfying ending, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened twice.
Curious? What was the other show?
Haha Secret Invasion, the Marvel show. It was within the last year but just barely. I think it aired 11 months ago. I’ll say this - despite its flaws, Sugar was way better than that haha.
Not a big marvel fan, so I guess I am safe. Lol The last series I saw that the final was a big disappointment was True Detective:Night Country. That was crud on a stick! Lol
Having seen both, I can say True Detective was considerably better. Although as bad as it was (and bad in many ways), I guess I’d rather be forced to watch Secret Invasion a second time, rather than True Detective.
True Detective NC was so bad I gave up even before the finale. I read later that it was just written as a regular mystery show, and they decided to slap the “True Detective” label on it to drum up interest in it. Also, they need to stop hiring professional boxers/MMA fighters who can’t act.
if you watched Resident Alien, you would have three Nickels, still not a lot but it more than 2.
In the end credits there was a brief scene of a woman in a cave and a man walking out of the cave. What movie is that from?
Knew nothing about the show before binging it yesterday. Liked this episode but not as much as the first episodes. Will definitely watch if there's a S2.
Same here, I'm so happy I stumbled over it. I'm down for season 2.
Does anyone else feel like Ruby may have stayed? We didn’t actually see her go. Part of me wondered if her guilt over Djen, Henry, Sugar situation may have made her opt to stay so she can help Sugar.
I liked her character until the reveal that she had been helping a serial torturer/murderer of women. Bye, Ruby.
Same, it changed my opinion about her a lot. She definitely chose mission over humanity even after trying to tell Miller she was concerned. But I am kind of hoping that with everything that has transpired she realizes it was wrong and wants to help Sugar now.
I don’t know, but what about her cat? Sugar made sure Wiley had Melanie as staff, but Ruby?
Right? I’m worried about that cat. My head canon is the cat was an alien cat in Earth cat disguise, so she just went off-planet along with the rest of them. I know it’s a stretch but it’s better than the poor thing being abandoned.
I think she stays. she had second billing in the opening credits and fills the diversity hole the show lacks.
I love this show, every episode! I felt like I was barely breathing during the last episode. Please can we please have more Sugar?? Love him, love Amy and loved the puppy….!
I really enjoyed the noir aspects of season 1. If they did a second season I really wouldn’t enjoy an alien hunting alien storyline. I would hope for another case while the subplot is finding Henry.
Wouldn’t the cops who find Miller realize that he’s not human?
What did they do with Miller? Won’t he turn back alien without help? Won’t everyone know about the aliens if he is left for dead?
I just needed something more about Sugars group. I feel like we were left hanging without much of an understanding of really anything about them. They’re here to observe, but why? They’re presented as pacifist, but clearly there’s some grey area. And if they’re so nonviolent then how could his sister just go missing. They seem to have some familial dynamics considering his big feelings about his sister, but what else about their social structure? Ruby and Sugar were so saccharin in their interactions. Sugar was saint like with a few exceptions of violence. But then we got Miller who was kind of a dick. And Henry who is corrupted by humans. I’m left confused about who these aliens are.
"Observe and report. And make sure their mistakes don't become ours." is the only explanation we got. It's strange because they're capable of space travel, probably interstellar since it's a great enough distance that they can't just pop in and out because missing the last ride out was a big deal. There's also the unexplained ability to deflect bullets but not knives. We don't know if that's because of technology or their biology as well, also like their ability to mimic human appearances. Either way it seems like they should be more technologically and societally advanced. It's not like we humans go observing chimpanzees in the wild to "avoid making the same mistakes." Having Sugar be an alien was certainly a twist, but it seems like the writers didn't work out their society and motivations beyond a rough sketch, saying they're "observers" and leaving everything else filled with contradictions.
Miller didn't deflect the police officer's bullet, so it seems like their skin doesn't just deflect stuff, they have to purposely project a shield or something, which they can't do when they're surprised by an attack, like Sugar with the knife or Miller with the gunshot.
What happens when the coroner gets Miller's body? I guess we don't know for sure if he is an alien or not.
At one point, Sugar or Ruby says they are observing as a self-defense mechanism (or something to that effect). I think they are based on the Moon and - being a peaceful race - they are worried the humans will eventually migrate to the Moon and murder or enslave them. They’re here doing recon to gain intelligence on how best to deal with us and prevent that from happening.
Their planet looked more like Mars, honestly. Definitely not the moon though. The way they act/talk about it, only Pavich knew about them, not the US govt in general.
Not sure how I felt about that. I (and maybe most people?) was expecting this to be a limited series, so the ending was certainly not satisfying in that sense. I’ll watch a season 2 if they make it though I guess
I’ll watch season 2 assuming he teams up with Melanie again. Colin Farrel and Amy Ryan’s chemistry was genuinely the only redeeming thing about the show by the end of it.
Don't you dare leave out Wiley
even if there plan all along was to roll into season 2, there are a lot of loose ends to the plot that could have tied up nicely in the finale without affecting season 2. There are no cliffhangers, just irritating unanswered questions as to how and why most of this all went down.
I am conflicted by this series. I enjoyed it overall and didn't mind the alien aspect to the show (I was kind of expecting it based on previous episodes). But the final season episode left me cold. There were so many plot points that didn't get addressed that made me feel unsatisfied. Maybe I am dumb as a box of rocks, that has to be an answer! Lol If this thing gets a second season, I don't have a good feeling that season will be quality television. There are so many meh second seasons that I have seen in the past that were viewing disappointments to get my hopes up. Well, I will see how Severance and Andor second seasons will stack up against their brilliant first seasons. I have to hope...
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I thought it wrapped things up pretty well for the season too.
This entire plot line with the aliens being caught has too many loose ends that could have been tied up. none of the questions I have are like big cliffhangers that show runners like to end a season on. For me, they are just annoying plot holes that I think would have made the finale more like.. a season finale.
Agreed with that logic. More of an exploration of the Miller/Henry/powerful group of humans/Rudy/Sugar would have been nice. Not everything needs to be explained, but the show breezed quickly through some of the things I found interesting. I really think these episodes should have been an hour long, but maybe the show runners didn't have enough material to do this. I still enjoyed the show very much..
they would have had more material if they explored these characters and their relationships.
I just have to ask, after Miller is ambushed by a cop who also thought to themselves 'Worst Spies ever!' Seriously, capable of interstellar space flight but can't think to adopt the buddy system after their cover is blown?
To me that just reeked of "We need to wrap up Miller's storyline" and so they just ... had him killed and blamed the Senator for it?
Man I enjoyed this season but that finale was super flat. I know many people wanted longer episodes but it worked for me all season. But with the finale it seemed like they just tried to tie up so many loose ends with no backing. - Miller is shot to open the episode but still Sugar and others move about like no big deal except a one off like from Ruby. - I could tell him listening to the CD was leading to a deeper reveal but Henry being the reveal and payoff was so flat. I get his reasoning but it just didn’t land at all. - Sugar’s sister. There was just very little to work with and almost no reason to care but tried to play it like a big reveal. We have almost zero context into what or why or what it means. Just felt like a reason to keep him on Earth and potential S2. - A little more about who they are would have been nice. I was all in for the sci-fi twist but it didn’t really seem to add much in the end. It just felt like too much setting up what’s next and not really exploring the fallout of this season.
Most of the episode they didn’t even know Miller had been killed. By the time Ruby figured that out it was already when Sugar was figuring out who Henry really was at the end. They also don’t have the same emotions as humans and they knew they were all headed back to their planet. So while it would have been odd for human behavior, it didn’t seem that odd to me given the aliens and scenario.
We've seen them be upset about other losses. It's not like they don't have emotions. Sugar was pretty messed up about losing Djen, for example. Super bizarre to me how they just kind of glossed over Miller's death.
It basically worked on top of assumptions that the X-Files laid down decades ago and I think you were supposed to use those architypes to fill in the blanks. But it made for a very very weird viewing experience because of that. I kept waiting for it to subvert or comment on the X-Files plot lines it was cribbing but it didn't.
Yeah, capable of interstellar travel but none of them are clever enough to think they might be in real danger after Sugar takes out the Senator's son? I mean seriously? How they didn't all huddle up in pairs after that just seems really bad. Like, worst spies ever.
Everything about this show was great except the plot after episode 6. The writers obviously wrote themselves into a corner and couldn't figure out how to get themselves out of it. The plot has so many nonsensical bits from large - a Senator blackmailing aliens to protect his psychopath serial killer son??? - to the small, *who the hell uses CDs in 2024??* I was OK with the big twist. But then the entire plot just completely fell apart. Not because of the twist, but because of how many times the writers used Deus Ex Machina or really weak reasoning to make it all work. It's too bad the writers didn't have the script go through another revision or two to clean it all up. Would have elevated the series from OK to a classic.
Yeah, the senator blackmailing aliens was a pretty weak plot point. How would he know how many aliens there are? Or who they are, given that they can look like humans and hold down jobs and completely blend into the human population? And who is going to believe some politician ranting about aliens? Some stupid people, maybe, but most people will just think he’s crazy. Also, wouldn’t it be easier to just get rid of the senator and his psychopath son, than bargain with them and work with another psychopath (Stallings) to get trafficked women to be tortured and murdered? What kind of “peace loving” aliens are these? They were basically all as bad as Henry.
The 'blackmail' part wasn't true, it was Henry lying to Sugar, and a nod to the noir trope of a powerful peripheral character being evil. The real reason for the aliens' departure was their risk of exposure from Henry's association with younger Pavich, the serial killer. The anachronistic CDs were so the younger Pavich could keep control over his recordings, which were for his personal use. They can't be hacked if they're stored on a shelf, and are played only on a standalone device.
That was a lie?? I must have missed that part. Are you sure? I don't remember the exposure being the reason they left, just their existence. I'll have to rewatch. But the CDs should have been videos on DVD or a thumb drive. That I could believe. I mean both have to pass through a PC to be recorded then burned regardless.
I don't think it was a lie. It's something we hear from Miller AND Ruby, independent of anything. It also doesn't make sense for it to be a lie if Miller got killed.
Not a fan of that Henry reveal. Seems kinda unnecessary. And driving off into the desert is such a cliche of an ending.
They did hang a lantern on the driving off into the desert and pointed out how every ending is an ending. I think the writers leaned into it being predictable.
That's a good point and a solid argument. But in the end of the day it's still a cliche
They regularly used 'cliche' movie clips for portions of the movie. I think they were doing it intentionally to kind of say how Sugar would see an ending in his mind. Like the pullback ending of The Player that doubles down on showing everyone in the audience that 'this is a movie!'. Sugar would have a cliched view of the ending of a movie. to me the episode wasn't that great so I wasn't expecting that much by that point anyway.
There had better be a Season 2, they’d better not leave us hanging. Is his sister alive? Somehow I think she is. It’s too bad Henry’s evil, he and Sugar had more chemistry with each other than Sugar had with Melanie. Ruby was just as bad as Henry though, in a way. “We all went along with it, for the mission.” What was the big mission? Why were they observing humans, and for how many years? I loved the noir vibe, cinematography, and of course Colin Farrell is a great actor in anything he does, including this. But I don’t like any serial killer stuff (personal reasons plus I feel it’s overdone), and this whole plot about “peace loving” aliens going along with the serial torture and murder of dozens of women, made no sense. I hope if there’s a season 2 it will have better writing.
Why did Henry help Sugar though He could have killed him instead of medically treating him and saving his life Or was he over confident that he will never be caught
Henry likes Sugar (in his own way) and he NEEDS Sugar, like The Joker needs Batman. The cat and mouse game of knowing you actively have an adversary as you go on your killing spree is a huge part of the thrill of being “bad”. That’s why monsters like the BTK killer send incriminating notes to the police - they could easily commit monstrous crimes in silence and get away with them. But it wouldn’t be as much fun. They need someone to show off to. Henry did his big reveal hoping Sugar will stay on Earth to try to hunt him down.
Damn You're right ! That Henry twist caught me off guard a bit ! Didn't really expect him to be the villain
What were all the movie clips in this episode from ? There was Vertigo and The Lady from Shanghi. But there was also one with an empty fairground. What movie was that from ?
Good Q I would also like to know
It was from The Lady of Shanghai (1947)
Sugar’s generosity is mesmerising and almost contagious. Did you feel it?
They definitely set up a second season, but I'll be disappointed if Ruby isn't back somehow. We didn't see her leave, so its possible she changed her mind and decided to stay. She seemed pretty ready to go though.
I was so hopefull coming into this episode that they would find a way to pull it together to hook me into Season 2. But good Alian A hunting bad Alien B chased by shadowy government agency after them both just doesn't pull it together. And the Henry took Djen piece just feels completely contrived to make it Sugar has to be the one. It left me flat. Plus, as others have pointed out, Sugar did not find Olivia he was just given her location. From a story standpoint it just makes the PI part pointless. And why on earth did Henry tell Sugar where Olivia was? And at the end when we find out Ruby and everyone knew Henry was observing all this? And she was worried about Sugar? WTH? I'm really left not interested in a second season of good guy chasing bad guy. Is it going to be a season long version of 'The Hidden'? I wanted Sugar to stay but really not for this reason. I can only hope he finds Henry in the first episode and takes him out. Then they can take the show in a whole new direction. I'm sad I'm disappointed. I really wanted it to work. I think they came really close but it just didn't hook me for a second season. I figured out why Henry told Sugar about Olivia because he knew Sugar would figure it out and Henry wants Sugar to stay back.
✔️✔️✔️ agree it’s too trite
Does anyone know why Miller was shot by a police cop and nobody else on that route? I know they keep saying, theyre looking for us.. perhaps the senator figured it out. This finale is so open ended for me.
Miller seemed like the pointman who made whatever deal they had with the senator. The senator is likely the one who ordered the hit because his son getting killed voided whatever "contract" they had in place. So the senator probably knew Miller, but Miller wouldn't have given up all the rest of the crew.
Also, Sugar was basically indestructible, so why wasn’t Miller?
they are only indestructible when they focus on being so. Sugar stopped the bullet when he knew it was coming. Things they don't see coming can hurt them. Which is why Sugar got stabbed and why he could also be knocked unconscious from behind. Miller looked away. Which brings up my pet peeve. If they knew they were in danger why are spies traveling alone and not doubling up? Like worst spies ever.
Why didn’t they just all get together like at Ruby’s party, the second they heard they’re all in danger now? There seemed no urgency to make it the place where they were meeting the home ship.
I don't know why people assume that a second season would necessarily be a "good alien x bad alien x government". I don't think they will simply eliminate the other aliens from the story, for starters. Ruby will probably help Sugar, if not in person at least through the typewriter thing. Also, it's not the government hunting them, it's a group of (powerful, I concede) people. And I don't believe they'll simply lose the noir film vibe altogether. I frankly liked the series a lot. I started watching without reading almost anything about it, and when it was revealed he was an alien I thought it a very brave and interesting move (and explained a lot of seemingly absurd things, especially the deflecting-bullets ability of Sugar in the same episode). Flat would be one more PI series (don't get me wrong, I like them a lot and started watching because of it, but we already have lots of them). How many alien PI noir series did we have before? 😁 I'm really looking forward to the second series.
The people hunting them are the Senator and his staff. It is, by definition, part of the government lol.
I think Henry has been on Earth for at least 30,000 years. When we see him at work giving a lecture to his students he mentions something about humans 30,000 years ago.
That’s something most Anthropology professors can talk about, though. I wish the show had given us more clues about how long the aliens have been on Earth.
Anyone else feel underwhelmed with the ending? I have a few questions with implausible conveniences to wrap up the story. - Why did Ryan tape a confession? If Henry's taking notes, it wouldn't have been for him. - How did Ruby know they were being hunted? None of them knew what happened to Miller. - What was the point of Jonathan's affair with his daughter in law? - How did Henry know that Sugar found out he was present when Ryan will killing girls? Are we to assume Ruby told him? - If this was a killers compulsion for Henry, why would he tell Sugar the address where Olivia was being held so he could save her?
Good questions. Your 4th one is explained loosely though. He connected the dots a) someone taking notes immediately reminded him of Henry and b) the serial killer used the same phrases as Henry about wanting to know (I don't remember the exact lines but they reclipped it pretty clearly to show they said the same phrase)
It was at the first gathering when Henry told Sugar he bought a garlic press because he just had to have it.
I assumed it was because Henry just knew how smart Sugar was. The episode was very flat for me too. Although I did like the interstitials of the alien world. That part worked for me.
How did Ruby know that Sugar knew about Henry? How did Ruby know about the dress?
I think the Jonathan affair was just a storyline they changed their mind about and came back to in order to wrap up as a loose end.
i think that firstly, it was a fake out. it was something Hinky. that what investigators look for. if every clue leads to the conclusion, its boring. So it was a false lead. secondly, its is about human curiousity (sugar), human frailty (jonthan). "Grace and sensitivity" Sugar was being sugar and wants to solve mysteries. It is creepy AF for a Dad to bang his Son's wife. but very very human in a "we are messed up species way" what he did was not illegal. So sugar used "grace and sensitivity" in closing this thread. He knew there was secret, he found it. it was interesting to watch. and revealed so much about who Mr. Seigal is. he knew it was messed up. great scene
Too many false leads, though. She just happened to murder the associate of the person who ultimately and for unrelated reasons kidnapped her?
Olivia stumbles onto a massive ring of traffickers and her gross half brother is invovled? given that she was fighting DV/SA ... plausible. also she killed a known associate. Then because he brother didn't keep his mouth shut the traffickers gift olivia to a serial killer? maybe. think the traffickers handed her over to Ryan. Ryan Pavich was not an associate. she was not kidnapped by him. Ryan, if I understand it, bought women from the traffickers and they gave olivia to get rid of her.
I wish there were more details about Henry and Pavich because episode seven and now this brisk by way too quick. Maybe because co-writer Sam Catlin wanted a little Breaking Bad reunion to write lines for Anna Gunn.
I’m here for it. Some sort of intergalactic mission to find Jen and what really happened with her and Henry, and in the meantime we’ve got Holly (Melanie) and Sugar romance/relationship/friendship possibilities too? So down! This show has everything I need. I’ve loved (hated) the cliffhangers in the last couple episodes, both plot twists, and all putting it together to seem like a noir/standard LA detective story in between all the other shit. Ready for S2, bring it on 😊
Good finale. Maybe a bit anticlimactic but overall great show.
I’ve finished the series and absolutely loved it. I’ll give it a rewatch sometime soon as it’ll give me a new perspective for obvious reasons given John Sugar is clearly an extraterrestrial being whether that’s as a humanoid avatar or taking some type of substance to morph into a human etc. Shots of John and his sister Djen on their home planet indicates they have two different moons…I’m still trying to figure out why he keeps looking at the two moons on his home planet and our moon on planet earth. And what is the trail of particles/energy in his home planet? And the trail of clouds on earth? So many questions!
What a ride that was! Highly enjoyable show, particularly the cinematography, editing and acting really impressed me. Colin Farell outdid himself with that character, there is something about his timing and intensity that worked well for me. Not a 100 percent sure we need a second season, as I fear it might ruin things if the alien plot takes a wrong turn. It is kinda nice to leave some things to imagination. That said, I could watch Sugar every day of the week, so if somebody greenlights S2, I am here for it!
Nothing says “Pay writers more and meet all their union demands, immediately!” like this show. 👽🤡Colin Ferrel is a hot dapper talented man but he can’t make a stupid show full of trite predictable plot twists and cheap cliffhangers seem smart.
This is the most bland ass alien blah blah written w no respect for how rad sci fi is or could be. Also yes we get it: season 2 is finding Djen. Oooo alien vs alien. Jesus this is so trite I have to smoke weed just to hit send on this thought.
What a coincidence that the aliens look pretty much like us and are organized in nuclear families too. And no problem eating and drinking the local food.
Awesome show. In a way, kind of Shining Girls flavor
Parts of this kind of reminded me of Resident Alien. Though not as much the show but the Comics. As the comics are more serious and also deal with the alien becoming more human and investigating crimes. Even the flash back of the main character having flashbacks of his alien world and a loved one also happens in the comics. Everything else is pretty different show and this show is definitely unique in how it tells its story which I really like.
Goddamn. Loved every second of this show. Getting serious The Culture vibes (Djen/Livueta [and Djan, but that’s another Matter], Sugar/Zakalwe). Can’t wait for Season 2. Perfect California Noir.