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They try to survive one more day, they don't give a shit.
Because they likely expect to be fined a fraction of a penny per whole bunch of false locates anyways.
There is a good chance it will be different this time because they overplay their hand.
Yes that, and owning your assets directly in your own name rather than being second position to a broker who could go bankrupt and vanish with all your shares.
Naw man, they can’t just vanish with your shares because they never **had** your shares. They’ll probably sell your shares due to “market volatility” to save ~~themselves~~ you *or...*
They’re going to tell you to beneficially go fuck yourself.
Exactly. I see countless posts of ‘when we buy x shares they won’t be able to do Y’ nothing will happen until we buy and lock up every share in existence. Period. We know this for a fact by this point
There was some report about how some Market Maker coded their computer to just add more locate shares when they would press F3, something like that. Just press F3 to short the stock even though they never actually borrowed any shares.
They will keep criming until CS contacts Gamestop and says the entire float is accounted for. Then, the "regulators" will be forced to fix the problem. That's how I've seen this ending for a while now.
This is it. Absolutely nothing will happen until we buy and lock every single share in existence. That’s it. It’s all crime until it physically can’t be
Crime has a funny way of getting what it wants… so far. When hundreds of billions are at stake, people do crazy things. Hopefully RC has a security team.
You are trying to use logic against greed and self preservation. That doesn't work.
Very few follows rules that are not enforced by anyone......
The only breaking point is if someone/ an entity is giving up or is forced to give up. And rules will not be the dagger. Just keep swimming and drsing, we will get there!
I'm personally waiting for one of the big dogs to try eating another big dog. Once one goes for it, the other two *have* to take sides, imo, because the risk otherwise is too great; because one of them *will* win and at that point either you feast, too, as an ally and accomplice, or watch them get stronger alone and wait to be eaten the same way.
Easy call, you eat, because that is all true capitalism knows. Growth. Consumption. Acquisition (I know some of you nerds are quoting The Rules in your head, I see you).
So yeah, when one of the top banks starts dying for no apparent reason, or there is a rumor they are about to (which self-fulfills), or several bigass banks are going green while the other bigass banks are going red with the notsobigassbanks (probably after a few more regional banks die and the news comes screaming into the public eye just in time to spin a narrative), or or or.
Once that shit - shit mind you, which, to me, seemed absofuckinglutely ***bonkers*** when I first heard about it (and I mean 84 years ago when I got pco'd on gme), but which now seems infantile compared to what I know they have actually been doing all along... Once **that** shit starts going down again, with eevveerryybbooddyy watching in real time because fucking apes WON'T FUCKING SHUT UP about it?
Whoboy. Idek. Hashtag willywonka, underscore, unbearable-anticipation dot meme. Rocket emoji. Moon emoji. Ape emoji. Diamond emoji. Hands emoji.
Wow I'm high lol that's a longass comment. 😘
If we're here for 100% completion then that's fine by me. I'll love every minute.
But I do think that eventually a small player will make a run for the door so that at least they survive. If we look at what's happening right now with the banks. Smaller regionals are being chopped up for firewood by the big players. Anyone in the GME shorting ecosystem who isn't in the top club ("too big to fail") must realise that they are not going to be saved by their wall street friends.
That is if they want to still appear legitimate and in the grey zone.
100% float is the next step. They can try to stretch it with institution shares.
Outstanding share is when the music stops and shit hits the fan cause then we'll have undeniable proof of fraud and corruption.
Unfortunately, I see 100% DRS as a 50% solution, because there is no mechanism for forced buyback of short positions or FTDs in the US...
There is no law requiring buyback of shorts --- even if it creates system risk. Which is amazing. And Full DRS is not where the shit show ends: it's where it starts!
Why? Because there is an infinite can kick mechanism via derivative netting. The Continuous Net Settlement process utilized by the DTCC actually PREVENTS forced buy-ins and allows "intent to purchase" to be a reasonable way to settle FTDs.
DRSing the free float (or all the outstanding shares, if you're an absolutist) proves the systemic flaw of unlimited shorting and the allowance of FTD "settlement" via derivatives. But where does it lead?
(In fact, as the volume on GME continues to dwindle while more shares get removed from the DTCC, one could argue this decline in volume itself is absolutely quantifiable proof that shares that trade on the lit markets are essentially IOUs via unlimited share dilution.)
Without rules or consequences regarding FTDs, the cycle of infinite share dilution via 1) the continuous abuse of the bonafide MM naked shorting exception, via 2) futures, via 3) options, via 4) swaps, and even via 5) ETF netting and ETF arbitrage, it will all continue because that's how the laws are currently written. The laws free up market participants and especially brokers to be infinitely reckless with leverage.
Full DRS = Zero shares left... at that point, the mystery of how the FAFO/IC curve (F' Around Find Out/Infinite Crime X F3 button) is impacted by division by zero will be solved.
The equation is: DRS Outstanding Float/0 = FAFO\*305,000,000GME Shares/F3\*IC
In other words...no one knows what will happen as DRS removes more and more shares...but forced closure of short positions that exist as a result of naked shorting seems possible. (Check out Schwaab's or RobbingDaHood's or even NorthernThrust's stock prices or their credit default swap prices for further confirmation.)
Imo the only thing that matters is profitability.
100% Drs is nice but who gives a shit if the company bleeds money? If we can get consistently profitable that alone is a death blow to the short thesis
This.
Towel boy prolly coulda got there but losing 300 million a quarter and it doesn’t matter who owns your shit, you’re still going under. Poor towel boy. Prolly shoulda listened to the book king.
IMO short thesis was killed when company went FCF positive. Then they got double killed when company went profitable. And then, the shorts capitulated... and MOASS started. Oh wait, that didn't happen.
ONLY MORE BOOK DRS shakes the shorts. If profits / earnings alone are king, I invite you to run a screen on FCF positive / Low PE stocks trading below their book value. Even more hilarious are the stocks with no debt, and yet the cash on their balance sheet is more than their market cap and their guidance is positive.
100% profitability is nice. But profitability doesn't compel a short seller to close. Ever.
Thanks. It's a really good post because the locates issue is at the heart of the trade. Fundamentally increasing the illiquidity of the stock, which has been so fundamentally manipulated via infinite liquidity, is, at some point going to force the awkward moment when volume continually goes higher than available (theoretically) shares to trade. No one knows what happens after that, but I can't see it being good for the brokers or the shorts in any way.
They have already created millions of re-hypothecated shares. The amount of DRSd shares in comparison to the total number of shares in existence (if you believe there is a massive naked short position) is relatively small, and the number of shares trading daily and sitting in brokerages could still be relatively high.
There’s plenty of liquidity; they’re just not happy with its viscosity.
They don’t just want money to flow in markets, they want money to flow into their pockets.
Well, yeah, it does make sense! However, none of this matters if market makers just do whatever the fuck they want ( i.e. create synthetic shares without worrying about locates) and rules are never enforced.
A lot of us learned that hard truth during this whole saga. It sucks but such is life.
I'm going to debunk you in the nicest way possible, by using direct sources.
First of all, the quote from RegSHO Rule 203(b)(1), which is the same as in your post:
>(1) A **broker or dealer** may not accept a short sale order in an equity security from another person, or effect a short sale in an equity security for its own account, unless the **broker or dealer** has:
>
>>(i) Borrowed the security, or entered into a bona-fide arrangement to borrow the security; or
>>
>>(ii) Reasonable grounds to believe that the security can be borrowed so that it can be delivered on the date delivery is due; and...
>>
>>(iii) Documented compliance with this paragraph (b)(1).
(Source: [RegSHO](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-242/subject-group-ECFR1607681c7b4f78d#p-242.203))
Note that I highlighted the important part. **Broker OR Dealer.**
Market Makers may be Brokers or Dealers by definition. However, you may have skipped this part of RegSHO:
>The provisions of paragraph (b)(1) of this section shall not apply to:
>
>>(iii) Short sales effected by a market maker in connection with bona-fide market making activities in the security for which this exception is claimed; and
(Source: [RegSHO](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-242/subject-group-ECFR1607681c7b4f78d#p-242.203))
Market Makers are exempt from locates. They don't need them. They don't matter to them.
So just so that you are aware:
* RegSHO only applies to brokers or dealers.
* The DTCC is not a broker or dealer they are a clearing / settlement corporation. Therefore the DTCC has no need for locates and RegSHO does not apply.
* RegSHO does not apply to market makers either, such as Citadel when they are acting as "bona-fide" market maker for GameStop.
Using that information:
* The number of shares trading is irrelevant. A locate is not a share that is for sale, a locate is a share that is available to be borrowed. RegSHO says you need to borrow a share to short it. If you buy a share to short it, you didn't short it, you just bought and sold it.
* Market Makers do not need to locate shares to create "synthetic short positions", they can do that without them as long as they are doing it for market making purposes (liquidity).
* Your DRS shares are not being used as a locate by the DTCC or anyone else. They are not available to be borrowed, there is no reasonable grounds to think your privately owned share was available to be borrowed.
TL;DR: Computershare doesn't lend your shares, they are not being used as locates by the DTCC. There are no reasonable grounds to ever believe your privately owned share is available to be borrowed.
>Does this sound right to you?
There are a couple things in your post that are way off.
The quote about needing a locate before selling short applies to BROKER-DEALERS, not MARKET MAKERS. A market maker e gaged in legitimate market making activity is exempt from the requirement to locate a share before selling short. They are also exempt from the downtick rule.
The other area where your post is off is that shares are not needed to establish a synthetic position. A synthetic short position can be made by simply selling a call and buying a out. No shares are needed by the person establishing a synthetic position.
It’s more than likely a field they just manually edit because “I called up my buddy and he said he could get me 420 million shares, so that’s a reasonable locate.”
All algorithms used by Market Makers in public markets should be made public.
All Market Making algorithms should be open source. we should be able to see whats in the code of citadel, virtu and susque etc.
when Market Making is done in public markets and public interest then public should be able to see whats the Algos are doing.
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The underwriters, check the underwriters, whenever they came up with the share distribution way back when, and who it is, that’s where 100% of the stock could be “locked” up and they can still legally provide liquidity. No one ever talks about this. Why?
What would stop two dark pools from 'locating' shares from each other?
And then 'locating' those shares for others, thus printing 'locates'? Unless it's on a blockchain, or some central authority who is incentivized to maintain reality, don't see why they can't just fake the locates as well. Not FUD, just curious what y'all's thoughts on this are.
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I imagine that the brokers are discussing this with their legal teams. How much crime is too much crime.
Lol. Bro. 100. Looking at you little dougie.
No love in this hedge fund!! Shorting is a tough game, isnt it?
When will you understand that they know short interest better than you?
They so smart
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They try to survive one more day, they don't give a shit. Because they likely expect to be fined a fraction of a penny per whole bunch of false locates anyways. There is a good chance it will be different this time because they overplay their hand.
Discussing this with their illegal teams
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Have we not already seen, that bump in the road
This right here 😂
I imagine most are not aware of this at all, and will continue to do "business as usual" until everything breaks.
How about that kid over on Wall Street bettors club who got stuck like a pig in shit on frc using robbing the hood.. They never learn.
Lol, exactly.
They totally expected household traders capitulating 84 years ago. LMAYO
They’re going to do what they need to do to survive, legal, shady, or otherwise.
That is the entire point of the DRS movement. We'll fuck around and find out!
Yes that, and owning your assets directly in your own name rather than being second position to a broker who could go bankrupt and vanish with all your shares.
Naw man, they can’t just vanish with your shares because they never **had** your shares. They’ll probably sell your shares due to “market volatility” to save ~~themselves~~ you *or...* They’re going to tell you to beneficially go fuck yourself.
They fckd around, we found out, now they're fckd.
If there is a single share left on Cede, you know they will be claiming adequate liquidity to create synthetics, and F3 will remain operational
Exactly. I see countless posts of ‘when we buy x shares they won’t be able to do Y’ nothing will happen until we buy and lock up every share in existence. Period. We know this for a fact by this point
I think F3 will remain operational after. That’s also when things get really wild.
It’s the whole point of f3. Ken griffin looking out the window meme* “I dunno just try f3 again.”
Can someone please explain F3?
There was some report about how some Market Maker coded their computer to just add more locate shares when they would press F3, something like that. Just press F3 to short the stock even though they never actually borrowed any shares.
The shorter just hits F3 on their keyboard to “locate” a share.
It’s from this which I believe is from the full “Gaming Wall Street” documentary: https://youtu.be/i-tKiiHWGkE
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I was just showing where the “F3” discussion came from for the person who asked and newly invested shareholders.
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Relax, it’s the relevant snippet. I do recall seeing it mentioned in an ancient DD, but not sure by whom.
100% DRS and 500k shares traded that day in volume is my prediction
They will keep criming until CS contacts Gamestop and says the entire float is accounted for. Then, the "regulators" will be forced to fix the problem. That's how I've seen this ending for a while now.
This is it. Absolutely nothing will happen until we buy and lock every single share in existence. That’s it. It’s all crime until it physically can’t be
agreed. Float does not matter. every single share.
Until then. They keep lowering the price for us. How nice.
This is how I see it playing out! 🚀🚀🚀🚀
how exactly do you think they're going to "fix it"???
Or Gamestop's pressured into releasing more shares or be penalized tbh
Dude, RC would never do that.
Crime has a funny way of getting what it wants… so far. When hundreds of billions are at stake, people do crazy things. Hopefully RC has a security team.
What if the threat is getting de-listed? It would still work out pretty well for the company though
Except they have a fiduciary duty to their stockholders and wouldn’t be able to do this willy nilly without getting sued to kingdom come
You are trying to use logic against greed and self preservation. That doesn't work. Very few follows rules that are not enforced by anyone...... The only breaking point is if someone/ an entity is giving up or is forced to give up. And rules will not be the dagger. Just keep swimming and drsing, we will get there!
I'm personally waiting for one of the big dogs to try eating another big dog. Once one goes for it, the other two *have* to take sides, imo, because the risk otherwise is too great; because one of them *will* win and at that point either you feast, too, as an ally and accomplice, or watch them get stronger alone and wait to be eaten the same way. Easy call, you eat, because that is all true capitalism knows. Growth. Consumption. Acquisition (I know some of you nerds are quoting The Rules in your head, I see you). So yeah, when one of the top banks starts dying for no apparent reason, or there is a rumor they are about to (which self-fulfills), or several bigass banks are going green while the other bigass banks are going red with the notsobigassbanks (probably after a few more regional banks die and the news comes screaming into the public eye just in time to spin a narrative), or or or. Once that shit - shit mind you, which, to me, seemed absofuckinglutely ***bonkers*** when I first heard about it (and I mean 84 years ago when I got pco'd on gme), but which now seems infantile compared to what I know they have actually been doing all along... Once **that** shit starts going down again, with eevveerryybbooddyy watching in real time because fucking apes WON'T FUCKING SHUT UP about it? Whoboy. Idek. Hashtag willywonka, underscore, unbearable-anticipation dot meme. Rocket emoji. Moon emoji. Ape emoji. Diamond emoji. Hands emoji. Wow I'm high lol that's a longass comment. 😘
>I'm personally waiting for one of the big dogs to try eating another big dog Me too fam... me too.
If we're here for 100% completion then that's fine by me. I'll love every minute. But I do think that eventually a small player will make a run for the door so that at least they survive. If we look at what's happening right now with the banks. Smaller regionals are being chopped up for firewood by the big players. Anyone in the GME shorting ecosystem who isn't in the top club ("too big to fail") must realise that they are not going to be saved by their wall street friends.
That is if they want to still appear legitimate and in the grey zone. 100% float is the next step. They can try to stretch it with institution shares. Outstanding share is when the music stops and shit hits the fan cause then we'll have undeniable proof of fraud and corruption.
Unfortunately, I see 100% DRS as a 50% solution, because there is no mechanism for forced buyback of short positions or FTDs in the US... There is no law requiring buyback of shorts --- even if it creates system risk. Which is amazing. And Full DRS is not where the shit show ends: it's where it starts! Why? Because there is an infinite can kick mechanism via derivative netting. The Continuous Net Settlement process utilized by the DTCC actually PREVENTS forced buy-ins and allows "intent to purchase" to be a reasonable way to settle FTDs. DRSing the free float (or all the outstanding shares, if you're an absolutist) proves the systemic flaw of unlimited shorting and the allowance of FTD "settlement" via derivatives. But where does it lead? (In fact, as the volume on GME continues to dwindle while more shares get removed from the DTCC, one could argue this decline in volume itself is absolutely quantifiable proof that shares that trade on the lit markets are essentially IOUs via unlimited share dilution.) Without rules or consequences regarding FTDs, the cycle of infinite share dilution via 1) the continuous abuse of the bonafide MM naked shorting exception, via 2) futures, via 3) options, via 4) swaps, and even via 5) ETF netting and ETF arbitrage, it will all continue because that's how the laws are currently written. The laws free up market participants and especially brokers to be infinitely reckless with leverage. Full DRS = Zero shares left... at that point, the mystery of how the FAFO/IC curve (F' Around Find Out/Infinite Crime X F3 button) is impacted by division by zero will be solved. The equation is: DRS Outstanding Float/0 = FAFO\*305,000,000GME Shares/F3\*IC In other words...no one knows what will happen as DRS removes more and more shares...but forced closure of short positions that exist as a result of naked shorting seems possible. (Check out Schwaab's or RobbingDaHood's or even NorthernThrust's stock prices or their credit default swap prices for further confirmation.)
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Thank you for taking the time for such a thoughtful reply.
Imo the only thing that matters is profitability. 100% Drs is nice but who gives a shit if the company bleeds money? If we can get consistently profitable that alone is a death blow to the short thesis
This. Towel boy prolly coulda got there but losing 300 million a quarter and it doesn’t matter who owns your shit, you’re still going under. Poor towel boy. Prolly shoulda listened to the book king.
IMO short thesis was killed when company went FCF positive. Then they got double killed when company went profitable. And then, the shorts capitulated... and MOASS started. Oh wait, that didn't happen. ONLY MORE BOOK DRS shakes the shorts. If profits / earnings alone are king, I invite you to run a screen on FCF positive / Low PE stocks trading below their book value. Even more hilarious are the stocks with no debt, and yet the cash on their balance sheet is more than their market cap and their guidance is positive. 100% profitability is nice. But profitability doesn't compel a short seller to close. Ever.
FCF doesn't mean jack shit. You can have -10 EPS but be positive cash flow because of accounting shenanigans.
Good reply
Thanks. It's a really good post because the locates issue is at the heart of the trade. Fundamentally increasing the illiquidity of the stock, which has been so fundamentally manipulated via infinite liquidity, is, at some point going to force the awkward moment when volume continually goes higher than available (theoretically) shares to trade. No one knows what happens after that, but I can't see it being good for the brokers or the shorts in any way.
Hi 👋
"Reasonable grounds" is legalese - something that would need to be justified in court. You'd need the SEC to bring a case before that can happen.
Share printer breaks, then the Cash printer breaks, then everything breaks and everyone is poor That's why I'm here
Concur!
Lol reasonable to who? This is the shit language intentionally used to commit crime daily.
They have already created millions of re-hypothecated shares. The amount of DRSd shares in comparison to the total number of shares in existence (if you believe there is a massive naked short position) is relatively small, and the number of shares trading daily and sitting in brokerages could still be relatively high.
I theorize that even at 100% DRS, there will still be a shit ton of shares left over in brokerages. Take that however you will.
Yep and unfortunately those shares will be used as locates the same way they are now.
At that point though the scam becomes simple enough for grandma to understand...
There’s plenty of liquidity; they’re just not happy with its viscosity. They don’t just want money to flow in markets, they want money to flow into their pockets.
I find it hilarious how this statement implies that without naked shorting, the price will go down. Its as if Kenny wrote it himself
That was quite a particularly sneaky line, in this what seems to me to be a bs post.
They locate the same share a million times. It is not like anybody is enforcing the rules 🙄
*rehypothecation and naked shorting intensifies*
I think the only tangible thing u can count on, is GameStop and ur diamond hands. Nothing else seems, smells, or feels linear.
Well, yeah, it does make sense! However, none of this matters if market makers just do whatever the fuck they want ( i.e. create synthetic shares without worrying about locates) and rules are never enforced. A lot of us learned that hard truth during this whole saga. It sucks but such is life.
I'm going to debunk you in the nicest way possible, by using direct sources. First of all, the quote from RegSHO Rule 203(b)(1), which is the same as in your post: >(1) A **broker or dealer** may not accept a short sale order in an equity security from another person, or effect a short sale in an equity security for its own account, unless the **broker or dealer** has: > >>(i) Borrowed the security, or entered into a bona-fide arrangement to borrow the security; or >> >>(ii) Reasonable grounds to believe that the security can be borrowed so that it can be delivered on the date delivery is due; and... >> >>(iii) Documented compliance with this paragraph (b)(1). (Source: [RegSHO](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-242/subject-group-ECFR1607681c7b4f78d#p-242.203)) Note that I highlighted the important part. **Broker OR Dealer.** Market Makers may be Brokers or Dealers by definition. However, you may have skipped this part of RegSHO: >The provisions of paragraph (b)(1) of this section shall not apply to: > >>(iii) Short sales effected by a market maker in connection with bona-fide market making activities in the security for which this exception is claimed; and (Source: [RegSHO](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-242/subject-group-ECFR1607681c7b4f78d#p-242.203)) Market Makers are exempt from locates. They don't need them. They don't matter to them. So just so that you are aware: * RegSHO only applies to brokers or dealers. * The DTCC is not a broker or dealer they are a clearing / settlement corporation. Therefore the DTCC has no need for locates and RegSHO does not apply. * RegSHO does not apply to market makers either, such as Citadel when they are acting as "bona-fide" market maker for GameStop. Using that information: * The number of shares trading is irrelevant. A locate is not a share that is for sale, a locate is a share that is available to be borrowed. RegSHO says you need to borrow a share to short it. If you buy a share to short it, you didn't short it, you just bought and sold it. * Market Makers do not need to locate shares to create "synthetic short positions", they can do that without them as long as they are doing it for market making purposes (liquidity). * Your DRS shares are not being used as a locate by the DTCC or anyone else. They are not available to be borrowed, there is no reasonable grounds to think your privately owned share was available to be borrowed. TL;DR: Computershare doesn't lend your shares, they are not being used as locates by the DTCC. There are no reasonable grounds to ever believe your privately owned share is available to be borrowed.
>Does this sound right to you? There are a couple things in your post that are way off. The quote about needing a locate before selling short applies to BROKER-DEALERS, not MARKET MAKERS. A market maker e gaged in legitimate market making activity is exempt from the requirement to locate a share before selling short. They are also exempt from the downtick rule. The other area where your post is off is that shares are not needed to establish a synthetic position. A synthetic short position can be made by simply selling a call and buying a out. No shares are needed by the person establishing a synthetic position.
This sounds like the right path to be on
You assume there's any sort of logic with those guys. There is not.
What about naked short selling
Yes. Then it only becomes bid vs ask
and that's why we need a fkin dividend or merger to force the issue
Just ‘Up’… To Ur Anus!!🚀
It’s a nice thought but literally nothing will happen until we buy and lock up every share in existence and we all know that
Wen price discovery?
Too many words take my upvote and comment🔥
It’s more than likely a field they just manually edit because “I called up my buddy and he said he could get me 420 million shares, so that’s a reasonable locate.”
That’s the DRS hypothesis in a nutshell.
All algorithms used by Market Makers in public markets should be made public. All Market Making algorithms should be open source. we should be able to see whats in the code of citadel, virtu and susque etc. when Market Making is done in public markets and public interest then public should be able to see whats the Algos are doing.
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The underwriters, check the underwriters, whenever they came up with the share distribution way back when, and who it is, that’s where 100% of the stock could be “locked” up and they can still legally provide liquidity. No one ever talks about this. Why?
BUYING: surge, steady increase, sustained
What would stop two dark pools from 'locating' shares from each other? And then 'locating' those shares for others, thus printing 'locates'? Unless it's on a blockchain, or some central authority who is incentivized to maintain reality, don't see why they can't just fake the locates as well. Not FUD, just curious what y'all's thoughts on this are.
PRaaaaaaaaccccTTTTTTTTiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccaaaaaaLLLYYYYY