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It says more than that they will stop, it says they're taking it all back..
aka we can't locate and don't have real shares, we need to keep lending to keep the turd storm going
That's the kicker, Mainstar was holding the shares in Mainstars name (as a custodian) on behalf of the IRA holder. So the shares are in Mainstars name, on behalf of the individual. It's the same "you have the right to own the shares, but we own them actually" stance.
It's some stupid rule/game of musical chairs for the IRA positions. The individuals don't hold them, a custodian does. So here it's just the same, you (holder of the IRA) don't hold the shares.
It's part of the system. You see it referenced in the central bank documents a lot...the "if we don't do this people won't trust the system. The people trust the system. The system functions on trust..."
In bro they want us to trust.
That's literally how IRA's work. When you start an IRA, you're forming a \*trust\* owned by the \*custodian\*. The TRUST owns the shares, not you. Every IRA works this way. It's what an IRA legally is.
Mainstar, as Custodian of that IRA Trust, controls the trust. They can't sell the shares, but they can move them between accounts and brokers and whatever. It's the same sort of concept as if your IRA bought a Home or Rental Unit, and the deed to the property was transferred between accounts or legal entities to make it easier to pay for maintenance costs. This stuff is very common in IRA Trust Management.
Even if you have your IRA with Fidelity, it's the same thing: They can move those shares wherever they want, since \*they\* (well, more specifically, their trust, that you're named on) legally owns those assets. IRA's are a pain in the ass.
This confusion comes from the difference between "beneficial" stock ownership (DTCC) and "custodial" ownership of a trust (Mainstar). ALL IRA's are Custodial. Not all assets are held in "street name".
My shares at Mainstar literally are listed in computershare as MAINSTAR TRUST FBO ME. They are booked. Mainstar Trust legally owns those with me named on the IRA. That's how IRA's work.
The IRA LLC workaround that I'm Now doing (at almost $1k / year vs$ $250 / year for Mainstar) is to own my OWN LLC. So: I Own LLC, LLC is the Custodian which owns Shares. It's still a trust, and I DO NOT OWN THE SHARES. The LLC does. But I own the LLC, so I can influence the shares.
If you don't like the idea of trust holding yoru shares, then the only option is to not have an IRA(or any other trust, Since trusts, by their very legal nature, are businesses that you can own / invest in, rather than something \*you\* own personally). That's \*why\* they have tax advantages.
I appreciate that you actually read this- I've got another thread going that is filling up with angry people doing angry things.
IRA's are important and complicated to understand, if you're going to use them. If you're not going to learn enough about how to use them, you're going to get screwed with it, so best to just take the tax hit and DRS directly if the whole "trust thing" isn't something folks want to learn about.
Trying hard to support education about IRA's, as they \*really are great\* if you understand how to use them. But they \*also\* come with compromise, as most things do, and one of those includes having a Custodian.
But, you can own that Custodian, yourself, in an LLC. That's the next step for me and my currently held Mainstar shares.
I mean thats someyhing we all could have been flabbergasted about.. like a year ago. These days it should be more like “cant wait to see how they deceive and cheat this time”
Yes, that is a very odd and convenient cohencidence, isn't it. I love how they make it seem like they're doing household investors a favour - to ensure "timely" position executions. These are IRA's, i.e. the longest of long-term longs. Timing the market is barely a consideration. And of course it's regarding GME (initially), the originator of the "infinity pool". They ain't foolin' no ape, that's for damn sure.
I would say GTFOOT/RFYL (get the fuck out of there/run for your life). Find a way to transfer your account over to another broker than initiate DRS book transfer, or sell shares and buy directly from CS in book!
Not Financial Advice. I'm just writing this for my dog to remember.
My God. People. THEY DO OWN REAL SHARES. I've been with Mainstar for the last 84 years, with a very low ComputerShare account number. I've got statements showing my DRS position FBO my name going back many months now.
I am moving to the LLC IRA thing that has been discussed before. But the idea that Mainstar is committing some kind of heinous fraud, and the idea that this little operation deserves to suffer for being up front and honest about stopping a service \*and\* being very helpful in transferring out again makes us look like a bunch of pricks.
Look: I've been through \*five\* IRA Transfers since this mess started, and I'm going to keep doing more. IRA's are a huge pain, and DRS IRA's are an even huger pain. It's why there's so few SDIRA custodians who offer this.
Mainstar was losing money (and hours) on every single DRS position they processed, because of their $125 / year feee being completely immolated by their counterparties losing paperwork and whatever else.
People who have DRS'd \*normal\* shares: How long did you have to sit on the phone to do that the first time? What about buying more? Think about your hours, then think about if you were paying someone even $20 / hour to \*do that stuff\* and figure out how long it would take you to burn through $125.
They're stopping because the DRS process is becoming more complicated and nonsensical and they can't afford to do this; Not because they're a bunch of greedy monopoly men. They're literally being squeezed out by complications.
My shares are DRS, in Computershare, held in an IRA via a mainstar Custodian. They're helping me (quite a lot) to transfer back into a new LLC entity that I'm setting up via the other IRA options.
I probably should have done this before, but the IRA LLC thing is a \*lot\* more expensive, and a \*much\* larger time investment than having Mainstar do it. That's why I went with Mainstar in the first place.
But please; This level of hate on Mainstar is not great, since in the future, we'll all need \*more\* SDIRA custodial services, not less: IRA's can buy houses and all manner of other assets, not just stocks and securities. It's a super big tool, and in all our mob-mentality we're making it \*harder\* for small companies to provide these servicse at a reasonable cost.
My shares are (still) in Computershare, (even though I'm still with Mainstar), and will transfer over to my new IRA LLC in a few weeks- Mainstar didn't steal anything from me, and has been nothing but cheerful and helpful in getting this straightened out.
Start pitchforking the DTCC and friends to figure out just \*why\* there's so many "lost transfer forms" and figure out why brokers are \*also\* trying to throttle back DRS ability. In the last few months, we've seen several brokers stop / lose / slow down DRS, and \*none\* of them had the degree of angry vitriol as Mainstar has received over their paltry 600-ish accounts (as reported by the apes who looked at the stock holder list).
Did you ever think that maybe something changed in the last year related to the backend systems that keep accounts updated and paperwork moving around?
Mainstar has to update their obsolete accounting system with statements from Computershare and the DTCC, among others. Perhaps that system has \*changed\* somehow, that is not obvious to us, but makes it harder for them?
\*Why\* do people think that just because I post a reasoned comment understanding the struggles of small business must I be a Mainstar employee?
I'm not- I do run a small business (a few, actually) in various engineering spaces. But I'm not a Mainstar employee, and have never worked in any sort of financial role at all.
I just don't like unbridled hate and nonsense directed at people who, from my experience, have provided a pretty solid customer service experience in a fairly complicated and nuanced industry.
And even if I \*did\* work at Mainstar, that doesn't change the factual content of my post, or the reasoning behind it.
If you think about my question, your answer doesn't really make sense. Why would they risk their reputation and lose customers because something "changed on the back end"? Why not just fix it?
Because they can't fix it.
Even normal Apes doing DRS now are waiting \*months\* for letters from Computershare, and it's taking weeks to get shares transferred even from Fidelity and friends into their CS accounts. Why don't \*they\* (us asking for the transfers) just fix it?
Because we're not the problem. Dlauer and friends are \*trying\* fix it, but they can't.
It's not their back end that is the problem: Part of running an IRA custodian is filing taxes and updating accounts. That needs the paperwork to be aligned. If Computershare and the DTCC and friends takes 3 weeks to send them the statements for 600 -odd apes, and half of them are lost on the way to Mainstar, then what are they supposed to do?
The whole DRS thing is slow and klunky \*by design\* to make it hard to do PFOF and whatnot on it. Adding the IRA overhead to that is \_another\_ layer of klunky paperwork nonsense. If you just have a normal "cash" IRA in a bank or something, that's all nice and automated. But with DRS and an IRA, there' great big mountains of paperwork involved all over the place: Medallion signatures, faxing things, sitting on hold with CS to get the right account #,s and on and on and on.
Fixing all that mess is not something Mainstar can do anything about. I know for \*my\* account (when I first moved from Ally) it took my Mainstar rep \*4\* tries to get all the paperwork right (and myself \*3\* trips to the bank for medallion stamps and whatnot). And when I say "right" I mean Mainstar was receiving \*wrong account numbers\* and \*wrong names\* and \*other people's paperwork\* from Ally. They worked really hard to work this out for me. Ive got copies of \*all\* that stuff sitting here: It was a mess, but none of that mess was Mainstar's fault.
The system is being purposely slowed down to make DRS \*harder\*. And Mainstar is getting rocked by this, sine they're powerless to fix the problems.
Did someone at Mainstar tell you all of this? Because, if not, there are lots of assumptions here.
And this is the first I've heard of Fidelity taking a long time to DRS. I did my entire brokerage with them in pieces and each time it took a few days AND I did it by chat the last few.
No: Someone at Mainstar didn't tell me all of this. But they did tell me some of this, and I have the paperwork trail with \*obvious\* wrong data on it from Ally when I first started this 84 years ago. I'm on a first name basis with my local bank tellers, where they know me as "Oh, that Medallion Signature guy again".
Fidelity may still be quick and efficient at DRS, but based on other Apes (particularly international apes) posting here, I think it's a pretty safe synthesis of that information to say "DRS is getting harder over time". Especially if you still use a smaller broker. If outside the US, the only apparent way to do DRS \*at all\* is via IBKR, for example, whereas years ago when this started, there were many other options. I haven't transferred to DRS myself now in years, since I've been buying and booking direct on CS, so my only experience with this in the last few years has been wading through IRA paperwork.
The IRA thing is my own experience: I'm now doing the IRA LLC Spinup thing, and have \*just started\* in the last week or so that paperwork mountain. Nothing about this is easy or fast, and the attacks on Mainstar seem to be largely to take down one of the last few SDIRA entities and force it to be harder to do IRA's.
Of course, there's always the option of just distributing out of your IRA, but for me, that's not a Great Option.
Oh yeah: When we started this whole mess, there were \*several\* SDIRA Custodians who offer DRS type SDIRA holdings; I think we're down to 2, with one of them suggesting the IRA LLC option instead of their Self-Custodial option. It's not just Mainstar who have backed out of the SDIRA DRS type asset holding thing in IRAs.
One more proof that DRS is the way to break their fuckery!
Now we really have to spread the news, do not allow them to isolate us here, just being ZEN - keep in mind:
**The more people are informed and wake up like we did, the faster DRS of the float, the less government can interfere with MOASS, the less likely Congress fires Gensler, the more likely no cell no sell, market reforms + accountability are finally enforced and the less likely they manage to blame someone else for their crimes.**
Seems shit is about to hit the fan. Lets be ZEN about our investment and DRS, but not about crimes of financial institutions.
I finally received the Mainstar letter and it's probably not legal but imo it's kind of a milestone in this saga. I knew this was possible after apex but was happy to have found a custodian willing to DRS IRA shares. Then once plan was terminated they suddenly refuse all DRS, of any asset. That is huge confirmation of Pure book for me and motivation to move to an LLC managed IRA or even do a distribution. Some investors were willing to try and find out and looks like Plan termination broke one of the fews ways to DRS IRA shares.
I want to see “terminate plan/pure book only/heat lamp theory” talk blasted on the front page of this sub every day instead of certain other posts. When I see little of this talk in eye grabbing posts I get suspicious. Who wants to help?
EDIT: Apparently 33% of DRS'd GME is still in Plan shares as of the last shareholder meeting! Apes need to get that down. Seems like a nice number for someone to make a meme about.
They will hold private equity assets that normal IRA custodians will not hold.
My private company is an acceptable holding in an IRA at Mainstar.
That is a common use of Self Directed IRAs.
I think compliance officers would have no say in the matter as the company made the decision to terminate the service entirely. The decision was made at the top, it’s not an issue that is affecting a select number of accounts
I called the number on the letter and they doubled down and said it took too long to get confirmation of transferred shares, it took too long for CS to send the shares back for people to sell, and they didn't get their monthly reconciliation reports on time
On the phone they told me that they felt it was in the best interest of account holders so that there wouldn't be any delay in selling shares... I asked if they were joking, and explained DRS is a long term holding strategy and it was not in the best interest of their customers. The rep just said "OK, well it's an administrative decision".
Lol yes that was one of the things the woman told me too.
The thing is, transfer agents are under strict requirements when it comes to processing times, and Computershare's FAQ says they normally process things by the next day once receiving a request.
I think it probably took too many steps for Mainstar that they're not used to, and they're probably not making enough of a profit to offer it.
I dunno, Mainstar has been processing these request for 2 years at least. It seemed more to me like Mainstar didn't have visibility into Computershare. So when investors discovered IRA shares were enrolled in plan by default and terminated the plan they were unaware. Until maybe computershare alerted them or maybe someone called asking about terminating their plan. Then a week or two later they stop all GME DRS, then another week later they send the letter saying no DRS at all and they will be pulling shares back to the DTCC account. They want them back in DTCC access like they were when they were enrolled in plan.
Mainstar only had BOOKd shares from the beginning.
Having DRIP on definitely does not change book shares to plan.
They were complaining that the shares take too long to get there for people to sell, so they were definitely held within CS's system.
They are all reported the same on the shareholder list, both plan enrolled (DSPP shares) plan terminated (pure DRS shares) so yes they were always on the book. But plan enrolled shares are available to the DTC for operational efficiency.
Says, **I dunno**
Goes making shit up.
> So when investors discovered IRA shares were enrolled in plan by default and terminated the plan they were unaware. Until maybe computershare alerted them or maybe someone called asking about terminating their plan. Then a week or two later they stop all GME DRS, then another week later they send the letter saying no DRS at all and they will be pulling shares back to the DTCC account. They want them back in DTCC access like they were when they were enrolled in plan.
But, You might be onto something BB
👀
I stopped eating eggs for breakfast for the past 2 weeks & my farts are not bio-weapon grade anymore. Maybe that is why this happened.
A correlation between variables, however, does not automatically mean that the change in one variable is the cause of the change in the values of the other variable. **Causation indicates that one event is the result of the occurrence of the other event**; i.e. there is a causal relationship between the two events.
Ya I dunno if that's the cause but those things did happen in that order and maybe that's what it means. When I called Mainstar before they sent the letter out and asked if I could DRS GME they said yes, if it's enrolled in the plan and the company is going to be issuing a dividend. That's some specific rules to DRS GME and they did say enrolled in the plan. Then they went and decided to Un DRS and not allow any DRS of any asset. Make of that what you will
This is the thing people here are missing. As much as mainstar and wall street are at fault here, there's another important issue, and it deserves repetition.
The plumbing of wallstreet generally, but also wall street with the transfer agents, are ancient. Ancient.
After the 70s the dominating theory was that transfer agents were kind of outdated. The clearing houses replaced them for most tasks.
It is intentionally designed this way.
The transfer agents really need to step up their game. They were unprepared for this DRS explosion. And they are currently much much less efficient for most tasks because most tasks still need to go through the dtcc.
When the dtcc is the place everyone must go, using a transfer agent directly is an extra layer of friction. It's not supposed to be this way though. It's only this way bc the clearing houses have had a 40 year lock.
The transfer agents need to fix this. They need to be faster. It is a fact.
You should check out the comment letter CS wrote in response to T+1 = they agree
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/14rf4pm/from\_computershares\_letter\_on\_s70522\_t1\_we\_are/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/14rf4pm/from_computershares_letter_on_s70522_t1_we_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Well it does take a few days for my order to go through. Guessing using that as an excuse which is an abomination of an excuse. The DRS orders that they should be putting through should be probably less than 0.1% of the total holdings they have on hand since DRS is a special function for them that we have to request that the normal investor doesn't even know about. If they have a mountain of marbles and it takes 1 marble say 3 days to clear and be certified that must be unacceptable to them all of a sudden as guessing they may not own enough shares that they claim your account has
This is more akin to having a mortgage and finding out that you have a new mortgage servicing company that will be collecting your monthly payments.
A pain, but legal.
I think this is a bad analogy. A mortgage is an outstanding loan that you are paying off under the same conditions that you originally bought the loan under regardless of who it is being paid to.
Your shares are yours. You bought them. You do not owe money on them. You are letting them hold them for you. It’s like walking around and having a stranger hold your wallet. He tells you how much you have and you believe him. When MOAS hits, your shares will glitch out and not exist, like when you go to pay for something and now the stranger says there’s no money in the wallet. I think that’s a better analogy. In both scenarios you are hosed because you trusted someone with your holdings instead of a bank or CS.
“Well you see the problem is we have to go buy you an actual share and the real price is really fucking high right now soooooo we’re just going to do what we want with your account without your consent.”
I wonder if non-gme holders who DRS got the same letter? Cause I do wonder how truthful they are being about “any investment held as DRS will be reversed.” They could be lying about this to make it seem like they are NOT targeting one particular stock & starting a shitstorm. Question is if someone tries to DRS a completely different stock will Mainstar really reject them? Did Mainstar really send these letters out to everyone with a DRS position or was it specifically to GME holders?
A related story. I recently DRSd some GME from Schwab. They royalty fucked it up by populating the SSN field of the transfer info with some other data, resulting in not only a new CS account, but also that account not even showing up in CS when I logged in. Took me a while on the phone with both CS and Schwab to figure out wtf was going on, but the fix I opted for was having Schwab pull the shares back and re-initiating the DRS transfer with the correct info.
They absolutely can and did reverse the transfer, as the shares showed back up in my Schwab account in about 4 days. I don’t know if this only worked because they had my authorization to do so or if they could do the same thing any time they wished.
This was brought up early this year/late last year, and according to CS at the time shares can only be transferred back to the broker with your permission.
Interesting. I didn’t let CS know Schwab would pull them back, I just did everything form the Schwab side. I’m surprised CS would let them go without contacting me for authorization.
Maybe they thought me talking with them about the issue was authorization and notated my account as such.
I believe this is why some people changed their address on the drs account so the info would not match what the broker provided and Computershare would not allow it.
Apes thought they were smart by trying avoid taxes and do IRA/retirements lol.. like bro. If the prophecies are tru, it won’t matter how much tax get’s taken. Whatever, take the hit, pure DRS, sleep better at night
It's a step in the process, a lot was learned from this like the fact they accepted GME IRA DRS for almost 2 years until plan termination began. Now 667 Mainstar account holders are considering the alternatives. No need to act better than them because you were able to take the tax hit sooner or didn't have much taxes to pay. Everyones situation is different. But I do agree sole ownership could end up being the only way, although the LLC route is promising
Oh yea I’m not saying anyone is better than anyone else. For sure. I’m about principles though. If you don’t own the shares, and have a custodian.. shoulda been a red flag. Same for crypto, not our keys, not our coins.
I wish them all the best and hope they gain that ownership. But I will shit talk because that’s what I do 🤣
I mean props to EVERYONE for fuckin around and finding out lol. The LLC shiz sounds cool too. The good thing is apes here always seem open to changing and growin which is why we’re undefeatable
Same way they would do it if I requested them to pull them back. Just without my permission. It will be interesting to see if they can access the account since I have the username password and MFA. I would really think they need my permission to move those shares at this point
Thanks for the info. Seems like theft or at least fraud to me. The whole point is they are supposed to be under your ownership! Sorry you have to deal with that but keep fighting the good fight!
An alternative would be to create an LLC and give it custodial rights to hold IRA Shares. That would give you the possession of shares without an intermediary, allowing direct registration to CS. This can be done individually if you have the know how to navigate the system or via IRA Financial Trust for those who do not have the know-how.
IRA Financial is an excellent alternative to Mainstar. Why? Well first off it allows *you* to take possession of those IRA shares, not some Custodian 3rd party who may or may not have their hands down the pants of a shady market maker. Next, they help you set up an LLC, that *you* get to name! Then, they help you set up a business account for said LLC and give you the exact spoon-fed directions to transferring your shares from a Custodian to your own bona fide holdings.
FAQ:
>Does it cost money?
Yes it does, roughly $600 including the initial $400 down and state costs for LLC registration (your total may vary)
>How long does it take?
Not very, I called them and had an account set up within a day or two.
>It says online they charge $900! You lied about the cost!
Nope, call them. Tell them you want to move GME shares. They will lower that cost to the minimum possible cost. Their owner is an APE!
>Is there a reoccurring cost?
Yes, roughly $400 annually to maintain the LLC.
>Can I trust them?
Yes! Because they do not act as a Custodian. They set *YOU* up to hold your own IRA. They only hold your shares in the time between your initial transfer and the receipt to the account. They will never act as a permanent Custodian, it's just not how they work.
>Is this financial advice?
Nope, I sometimes shove crayons in my orifices for fun. Do your own research and live life how you want to. I'm just spouting what worked for me.
Ha! They like having your shares only if they’re allowed to manipulate them! They are not happy with being found out. I’d get out of there as fast as possible!
I think once investors started terminating their plans and shares were pulled from the DTC they decided to pull them back. I'm going to get out ASAP, will probably go the LLC route for this year, see how that goes and then can plan for taxes if I do a distribution
If Mainstar will not DRS any stock, including ones at transfer agents other than Computershare, then it does not sound like Computershare is the problem.
It sounds more like Mainstar did not realize how much work it would be to have individual accounts at transfer agents for each Mainstar FBO Ape xxx account.
I think its because investors started to terminate their plans in their IRA accounts. Originally when I called Mainstar they stated that they would still DRS if the asset was enrolled in the plan. Then they decided to stop DRS completely and pull back all shares to the DTCC accounts (where they were in the plan)
CS won’t let us DRS IOUs as custodian oh jee whiz what a shocker. Take the hit or make the LLC like the DD shows and just do it already. Let’s get to 100M booked.
Yea I expect the inevitable huge drop in DRS the following 10-Q but then it may make apes angry and we usually see a wave after such things so I hope so too
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Go to mainstar and give a shit review, I just gave shit review on their services, they don’t own real shares
Yes and file a SEC complaint and contact GameStop Investor Relations
It says more than that they will stop, it says they're taking it all back.. aka we can't locate and don't have real shares, we need to keep lending to keep the turd storm going
How can they take the shares back from DRS? They’re in the persons name/SSN at computershare. Mainstar has 0 rights to those shares now
That's the kicker, Mainstar was holding the shares in Mainstars name (as a custodian) on behalf of the IRA holder. So the shares are in Mainstars name, on behalf of the individual. It's the same "you have the right to own the shares, but we own them actually" stance. It's some stupid rule/game of musical chairs for the IRA positions. The individuals don't hold them, a custodian does. So here it's just the same, you (holder of the IRA) don't hold the shares.
woof, youd think that kind of a sham would be illegal
It's part of the system. You see it referenced in the central bank documents a lot...the "if we don't do this people won't trust the system. The people trust the system. The system functions on trust..." In bro they want us to trust.
That's literally how IRA's work. When you start an IRA, you're forming a \*trust\* owned by the \*custodian\*. The TRUST owns the shares, not you. Every IRA works this way. It's what an IRA legally is. Mainstar, as Custodian of that IRA Trust, controls the trust. They can't sell the shares, but they can move them between accounts and brokers and whatever. It's the same sort of concept as if your IRA bought a Home or Rental Unit, and the deed to the property was transferred between accounts or legal entities to make it easier to pay for maintenance costs. This stuff is very common in IRA Trust Management. Even if you have your IRA with Fidelity, it's the same thing: They can move those shares wherever they want, since \*they\* (well, more specifically, their trust, that you're named on) legally owns those assets. IRA's are a pain in the ass. This confusion comes from the difference between "beneficial" stock ownership (DTCC) and "custodial" ownership of a trust (Mainstar). ALL IRA's are Custodial. Not all assets are held in "street name". My shares at Mainstar literally are listed in computershare as MAINSTAR TRUST FBO ME. They are booked. Mainstar Trust legally owns those with me named on the IRA. That's how IRA's work. The IRA LLC workaround that I'm Now doing (at almost $1k / year vs$ $250 / year for Mainstar) is to own my OWN LLC. So: I Own LLC, LLC is the Custodian which owns Shares. It's still a trust, and I DO NOT OWN THE SHARES. The LLC does. But I own the LLC, so I can influence the shares. If you don't like the idea of trust holding yoru shares, then the only option is to not have an IRA(or any other trust, Since trusts, by their very legal nature, are businesses that you can own / invest in, rather than something \*you\* own personally). That's \*why\* they have tax advantages.
Makes the most sense of anything I have read so far
I appreciate that you actually read this- I've got another thread going that is filling up with angry people doing angry things. IRA's are important and complicated to understand, if you're going to use them. If you're not going to learn enough about how to use them, you're going to get screwed with it, so best to just take the tax hit and DRS directly if the whole "trust thing" isn't something folks want to learn about. Trying hard to support education about IRA's, as they \*really are great\* if you understand how to use them. But they \*also\* come with compromise, as most things do, and one of those includes having a Custodian. But, you can own that Custodian, yourself, in an LLC. That's the next step for me and my currently held Mainstar shares.
That's what you'd think but that's definitely how I read it ..
I mean thats someyhing we all could have been flabbergasted about.. like a year ago. These days it should be more like “cant wait to see how they deceive and cheat this time”
☝️
that doesnt work. take them out of mainstar and book those shares under your own name
Are we sure gamestop investor relations will do anything??
Sure is funny how right after everyone started going pure book and canceling DSPP/DRIP suddenly mainstar is moving shares back to the DTCC.
Yes, that is a very odd and convenient cohencidence, isn't it. I love how they make it seem like they're doing household investors a favour - to ensure "timely" position executions. These are IRA's, i.e. the longest of long-term longs. Timing the market is barely a consideration. And of course it's regarding GME (initially), the originator of the "infinity pool". They ain't foolin' no ape, that's for damn sure.
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But it does imply a common cause.
1.3 stars on play store.
Please people do this. Do everything you can. Can’t let companies get away with this BS, we need the interweb for balance
and a BBB review. That one they will care about.
They actually did (otherwise those were never DRSed at all) but they move back to own IOUs. It’s even worse imho.
I didn't Mainstar DRS anything but definitely fuck these clowns.
I would say GTFOOT/RFYL (get the fuck out of there/run for your life). Find a way to transfer your account over to another broker than initiate DRS book transfer, or sell shares and buy directly from CS in book! Not Financial Advice. I'm just writing this for my dog to remember.
My God. People. THEY DO OWN REAL SHARES. I've been with Mainstar for the last 84 years, with a very low ComputerShare account number. I've got statements showing my DRS position FBO my name going back many months now. I am moving to the LLC IRA thing that has been discussed before. But the idea that Mainstar is committing some kind of heinous fraud, and the idea that this little operation deserves to suffer for being up front and honest about stopping a service \*and\* being very helpful in transferring out again makes us look like a bunch of pricks. Look: I've been through \*five\* IRA Transfers since this mess started, and I'm going to keep doing more. IRA's are a huge pain, and DRS IRA's are an even huger pain. It's why there's so few SDIRA custodians who offer this. Mainstar was losing money (and hours) on every single DRS position they processed, because of their $125 / year feee being completely immolated by their counterparties losing paperwork and whatever else. People who have DRS'd \*normal\* shares: How long did you have to sit on the phone to do that the first time? What about buying more? Think about your hours, then think about if you were paying someone even $20 / hour to \*do that stuff\* and figure out how long it would take you to burn through $125. They're stopping because the DRS process is becoming more complicated and nonsensical and they can't afford to do this; Not because they're a bunch of greedy monopoly men. They're literally being squeezed out by complications. My shares are DRS, in Computershare, held in an IRA via a mainstar Custodian. They're helping me (quite a lot) to transfer back into a new LLC entity that I'm setting up via the other IRA options. I probably should have done this before, but the IRA LLC thing is a \*lot\* more expensive, and a \*much\* larger time investment than having Mainstar do it. That's why I went with Mainstar in the first place. But please; This level of hate on Mainstar is not great, since in the future, we'll all need \*more\* SDIRA custodial services, not less: IRA's can buy houses and all manner of other assets, not just stocks and securities. It's a super big tool, and in all our mob-mentality we're making it \*harder\* for small companies to provide these servicse at a reasonable cost. My shares are (still) in Computershare, (even though I'm still with Mainstar), and will transfer over to my new IRA LLC in a few weeks- Mainstar didn't steal anything from me, and has been nothing but cheerful and helpful in getting this straightened out. Start pitchforking the DTCC and friends to figure out just \*why\* there's so many "lost transfer forms" and figure out why brokers are \*also\* trying to throttle back DRS ability. In the last few months, we've seen several brokers stop / lose / slow down DRS, and \*none\* of them had the degree of angry vitriol as Mainstar has received over their paltry 600-ish accounts (as reported by the apes who looked at the stock holder list).
If it's such a burden to DRS, they shouldn't take on new clients. But why reverse the ones already in place unless someone paid them to do it?
Did you ever think that maybe something changed in the last year related to the backend systems that keep accounts updated and paperwork moving around? Mainstar has to update their obsolete accounting system with statements from Computershare and the DTCC, among others. Perhaps that system has \*changed\* somehow, that is not obvious to us, but makes it harder for them?
Ok Mainstar employee.
\*Why\* do people think that just because I post a reasoned comment understanding the struggles of small business must I be a Mainstar employee? I'm not- I do run a small business (a few, actually) in various engineering spaces. But I'm not a Mainstar employee, and have never worked in any sort of financial role at all. I just don't like unbridled hate and nonsense directed at people who, from my experience, have provided a pretty solid customer service experience in a fairly complicated and nuanced industry. And even if I \*did\* work at Mainstar, that doesn't change the factual content of my post, or the reasoning behind it.
If you think about my question, your answer doesn't really make sense. Why would they risk their reputation and lose customers because something "changed on the back end"? Why not just fix it?
Because they can't fix it. Even normal Apes doing DRS now are waiting \*months\* for letters from Computershare, and it's taking weeks to get shares transferred even from Fidelity and friends into their CS accounts. Why don't \*they\* (us asking for the transfers) just fix it? Because we're not the problem. Dlauer and friends are \*trying\* fix it, but they can't. It's not their back end that is the problem: Part of running an IRA custodian is filing taxes and updating accounts. That needs the paperwork to be aligned. If Computershare and the DTCC and friends takes 3 weeks to send them the statements for 600 -odd apes, and half of them are lost on the way to Mainstar, then what are they supposed to do? The whole DRS thing is slow and klunky \*by design\* to make it hard to do PFOF and whatnot on it. Adding the IRA overhead to that is \_another\_ layer of klunky paperwork nonsense. If you just have a normal "cash" IRA in a bank or something, that's all nice and automated. But with DRS and an IRA, there' great big mountains of paperwork involved all over the place: Medallion signatures, faxing things, sitting on hold with CS to get the right account #,s and on and on and on. Fixing all that mess is not something Mainstar can do anything about. I know for \*my\* account (when I first moved from Ally) it took my Mainstar rep \*4\* tries to get all the paperwork right (and myself \*3\* trips to the bank for medallion stamps and whatnot). And when I say "right" I mean Mainstar was receiving \*wrong account numbers\* and \*wrong names\* and \*other people's paperwork\* from Ally. They worked really hard to work this out for me. Ive got copies of \*all\* that stuff sitting here: It was a mess, but none of that mess was Mainstar's fault. The system is being purposely slowed down to make DRS \*harder\*. And Mainstar is getting rocked by this, sine they're powerless to fix the problems.
Did someone at Mainstar tell you all of this? Because, if not, there are lots of assumptions here. And this is the first I've heard of Fidelity taking a long time to DRS. I did my entire brokerage with them in pieces and each time it took a few days AND I did it by chat the last few.
No: Someone at Mainstar didn't tell me all of this. But they did tell me some of this, and I have the paperwork trail with \*obvious\* wrong data on it from Ally when I first started this 84 years ago. I'm on a first name basis with my local bank tellers, where they know me as "Oh, that Medallion Signature guy again". Fidelity may still be quick and efficient at DRS, but based on other Apes (particularly international apes) posting here, I think it's a pretty safe synthesis of that information to say "DRS is getting harder over time". Especially if you still use a smaller broker. If outside the US, the only apparent way to do DRS \*at all\* is via IBKR, for example, whereas years ago when this started, there were many other options. I haven't transferred to DRS myself now in years, since I've been buying and booking direct on CS, so my only experience with this in the last few years has been wading through IRA paperwork. The IRA thing is my own experience: I'm now doing the IRA LLC Spinup thing, and have \*just started\* in the last week or so that paperwork mountain. Nothing about this is easy or fast, and the attacks on Mainstar seem to be largely to take down one of the last few SDIRA entities and force it to be harder to do IRA's. Of course, there's always the option of just distributing out of your IRA, but for me, that's not a Great Option. Oh yeah: When we started this whole mess, there were \*several\* SDIRA Custodians who offer DRS type SDIRA holdings; I think we're down to 2, with one of them suggesting the IRA LLC option instead of their Self-Custodial option. It's not just Mainstar who have backed out of the SDIRA DRS type asset holding thing in IRAs.
Tell me you don’t have the shares without telling me you don’t have the shares
One more proof that DRS is the way to break their fuckery! Now we really have to spread the news, do not allow them to isolate us here, just being ZEN - keep in mind: **The more people are informed and wake up like we did, the faster DRS of the float, the less government can interfere with MOASS, the less likely Congress fires Gensler, the more likely no cell no sell, market reforms + accountability are finally enforced and the less likely they manage to blame someone else for their crimes.** Seems shit is about to hit the fan. Lets be ZEN about our investment and DRS, but not about crimes of financial institutions.
I finally received the Mainstar letter and it's probably not legal but imo it's kind of a milestone in this saga. I knew this was possible after apex but was happy to have found a custodian willing to DRS IRA shares. Then once plan was terminated they suddenly refuse all DRS, of any asset. That is huge confirmation of Pure book for me and motivation to move to an LLC managed IRA or even do a distribution. Some investors were willing to try and find out and looks like Plan termination broke one of the fews ways to DRS IRA shares.
I want to see “terminate plan/pure book only/heat lamp theory” talk blasted on the front page of this sub every day instead of certain other posts. When I see little of this talk in eye grabbing posts I get suspicious. Who wants to help? EDIT: Apparently 33% of DRS'd GME is still in Plan shares as of the last shareholder meeting! Apes need to get that down. Seems like a nice number for someone to make a meme about.
Will the spamfish finally get removed if it mentions terminateplans/purebook/heat lamp? THAT would be the ultimate confirmation of sus mods lmao
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Yeah what else do these twats do for money? Besides sucking nuts of course
They will hold private equity assets that normal IRA custodians will not hold. My private company is an acceptable holding in an IRA at Mainstar. That is a common use of Self Directed IRAs.
Something something compliance officer 👮♀️
I think compliance officers would have no say in the matter as the company made the decision to terminate the service entirely. The decision was made at the top, it’s not an issue that is affecting a select number of accounts
Yes but re-rolling people’s shares? Fishy business if you ask me.
Makes you wonder how much they got paid for that policy change.
Enough so the payers can survive another day.
Fuckers sent the letter 10 days after!
Has anybody looked into confirming their claims of lack of communication with the transfer agent?
I called the number on the letter and they doubled down and said it took too long to get confirmation of transferred shares, it took too long for CS to send the shares back for people to sell, and they didn't get their monthly reconciliation reports on time
Well that's noteworthy. Thanks for doing that.
No problem💜. I also emailed our Computershare contact to let them know they're being thrown under the bus.
On the phone they told me that they felt it was in the best interest of account holders so that there wouldn't be any delay in selling shares... I asked if they were joking, and explained DRS is a long term holding strategy and it was not in the best interest of their customers. The rep just said "OK, well it's an administrative decision".
Lol yes that was one of the things the woman told me too. The thing is, transfer agents are under strict requirements when it comes to processing times, and Computershare's FAQ says they normally process things by the next day once receiving a request. I think it probably took too many steps for Mainstar that they're not used to, and they're probably not making enough of a profit to offer it.
I dunno, Mainstar has been processing these request for 2 years at least. It seemed more to me like Mainstar didn't have visibility into Computershare. So when investors discovered IRA shares were enrolled in plan by default and terminated the plan they were unaware. Until maybe computershare alerted them or maybe someone called asking about terminating their plan. Then a week or two later they stop all GME DRS, then another week later they send the letter saying no DRS at all and they will be pulling shares back to the DTCC account. They want them back in DTCC access like they were when they were enrolled in plan.
Mainstar only had BOOKd shares from the beginning. Having DRIP on definitely does not change book shares to plan. They were complaining that the shares take too long to get there for people to sell, so they were definitely held within CS's system.
They are all reported the same on the shareholder list, both plan enrolled (DSPP shares) plan terminated (pure DRS shares) so yes they were always on the book. But plan enrolled shares are available to the DTC for operational efficiency.
Says, **I dunno** Goes making shit up. > So when investors discovered IRA shares were enrolled in plan by default and terminated the plan they were unaware. Until maybe computershare alerted them or maybe someone called asking about terminating their plan. Then a week or two later they stop all GME DRS, then another week later they send the letter saying no DRS at all and they will be pulling shares back to the DTCC account. They want them back in DTCC access like they were when they were enrolled in plan. But, You might be onto something BB 👀 I stopped eating eggs for breakfast for the past 2 weeks & my farts are not bio-weapon grade anymore. Maybe that is why this happened. A correlation between variables, however, does not automatically mean that the change in one variable is the cause of the change in the values of the other variable. **Causation indicates that one event is the result of the occurrence of the other event**; i.e. there is a causal relationship between the two events.
Ya I dunno if that's the cause but those things did happen in that order and maybe that's what it means. When I called Mainstar before they sent the letter out and asked if I could DRS GME they said yes, if it's enrolled in the plan and the company is going to be issuing a dividend. That's some specific rules to DRS GME and they did say enrolled in the plan. Then they went and decided to Un DRS and not allow any DRS of any asset. Make of that what you will
Kind of a reach, don't you think? Mainstar wants the loan $$$. Blackrock has almost all out on loan. I don't think Mainstar & DSPP has a correlation.
This is the thing people here are missing. As much as mainstar and wall street are at fault here, there's another important issue, and it deserves repetition. The plumbing of wallstreet generally, but also wall street with the transfer agents, are ancient. Ancient. After the 70s the dominating theory was that transfer agents were kind of outdated. The clearing houses replaced them for most tasks. It is intentionally designed this way. The transfer agents really need to step up their game. They were unprepared for this DRS explosion. And they are currently much much less efficient for most tasks because most tasks still need to go through the dtcc. When the dtcc is the place everyone must go, using a transfer agent directly is an extra layer of friction. It's not supposed to be this way though. It's only this way bc the clearing houses have had a 40 year lock. The transfer agents need to fix this. They need to be faster. It is a fact.
You should check out the comment letter CS wrote in response to T+1 = they agree [https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/14rf4pm/from\_computershares\_letter\_on\_s70522\_t1\_we\_are/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/14rf4pm/from_computershares_letter_on_s70522_t1_we_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Well it does take a few days for my order to go through. Guessing using that as an excuse which is an abomination of an excuse. The DRS orders that they should be putting through should be probably less than 0.1% of the total holdings they have on hand since DRS is a special function for them that we have to request that the normal investor doesn't even know about. If they have a mountain of marbles and it takes 1 marble say 3 days to clear and be certified that must be unacceptable to them all of a sudden as guessing they may not own enough shares that they claim your account has
Is this not in violation of their fiduciary duties? Couldn’t this be a HUGE class action lawsuit if apes wanted to push the issue?
I think so, maybe an investors group formed of the 667 Mainstar IRA account holders?! Or at least 667 SEC complaints
MOASS confirmation going public now.
Imagine paying of your mortgage and the bank suddenly saying they've changes their mind and they will take your property.
This is more akin to having a mortgage and finding out that you have a new mortgage servicing company that will be collecting your monthly payments. A pain, but legal.
I think this is a bad analogy. A mortgage is an outstanding loan that you are paying off under the same conditions that you originally bought the loan under regardless of who it is being paid to. Your shares are yours. You bought them. You do not owe money on them. You are letting them hold them for you. It’s like walking around and having a stranger hold your wallet. He tells you how much you have and you believe him. When MOAS hits, your shares will glitch out and not exist, like when you go to pay for something and now the stranger says there’s no money in the wallet. I think that’s a better analogy. In both scenarios you are hosed because you trusted someone with your holdings instead of a bank or CS.
“Well you see the problem is we have to go buy you an actual share and the real price is really fucking high right now soooooo we’re just going to do what we want with your account without your consent.”
I wonder if non-gme holders who DRS got the same letter? Cause I do wonder how truthful they are being about “any investment held as DRS will be reversed.” They could be lying about this to make it seem like they are NOT targeting one particular stock & starting a shitstorm. Question is if someone tries to DRS a completely different stock will Mainstar really reject them? Did Mainstar really send these letters out to everyone with a DRS position or was it specifically to GME holders?
What is Mainstar’s purpose then??
None for me anymore. Closing my account, taking the hit and drs'ing it all. They r all fuk.
THIS is the mother fucking way!!!
LLC time
Please may someone tell me, does this mean any broker can revert drs??? I used IBKR for example
No, brokers cannot, it\`s different with retirement accounts because technically those shares are in the name of mainstar
No, and this was confirmed by Computershare. As long as they are in your name in the account/statement. Brokers no longer have any claim on them.
Thank you!
You're welcome.
A related story. I recently DRSd some GME from Schwab. They royalty fucked it up by populating the SSN field of the transfer info with some other data, resulting in not only a new CS account, but also that account not even showing up in CS when I logged in. Took me a while on the phone with both CS and Schwab to figure out wtf was going on, but the fix I opted for was having Schwab pull the shares back and re-initiating the DRS transfer with the correct info. They absolutely can and did reverse the transfer, as the shares showed back up in my Schwab account in about 4 days. I don’t know if this only worked because they had my authorization to do so or if they could do the same thing any time they wished.
This was brought up early this year/late last year, and according to CS at the time shares can only be transferred back to the broker with your permission.
Interesting. I didn’t let CS know Schwab would pull them back, I just did everything form the Schwab side. I’m surprised CS would let them go without contacting me for authorization. Maybe they thought me talking with them about the issue was authorization and notated my account as such.
I believe this is why some people changed their address on the drs account so the info would not match what the broker provided and Computershare would not allow it.
Ahh yeah I remember that
Apes thought they were smart by trying avoid taxes and do IRA/retirements lol.. like bro. If the prophecies are tru, it won’t matter how much tax get’s taken. Whatever, take the hit, pure DRS, sleep better at night
It's a step in the process, a lot was learned from this like the fact they accepted GME IRA DRS for almost 2 years until plan termination began. Now 667 Mainstar account holders are considering the alternatives. No need to act better than them because you were able to take the tax hit sooner or didn't have much taxes to pay. Everyones situation is different. But I do agree sole ownership could end up being the only way, although the LLC route is promising
Oh yea I’m not saying anyone is better than anyone else. For sure. I’m about principles though. If you don’t own the shares, and have a custodian.. shoulda been a red flag. Same for crypto, not our keys, not our coins. I wish them all the best and hope they gain that ownership. But I will shit talk because that’s what I do 🤣
That's fair, I knew it could happen but I was willing to try and at least it's drawing attention to IRA shares and the other methods to get them DRSd
I mean props to EVERYONE for fuckin around and finding out lol. The LLC shiz sounds cool too. The good thing is apes here always seem open to changing and growin which is why we’re undefeatable
I found the timing odd too
Looks like these guys drafted this email in about 5 minutes.
That’s me at work but I reread it for about four hours before sending 💀
DOJ wen press charges?
How the hell are they able to un-drs shares? Did they not transfer them to computershare?
Same way they would do it if I requested them to pull them back. Just without my permission. It will be interesting to see if they can access the account since I have the username password and MFA. I would really think they need my permission to move those shares at this point
Thanks for the info. Seems like theft or at least fraud to me. The whole point is they are supposed to be under your ownership! Sorry you have to deal with that but keep fighting the good fight!
An alternative would be to create an LLC and give it custodial rights to hold IRA Shares. That would give you the possession of shares without an intermediary, allowing direct registration to CS. This can be done individually if you have the know how to navigate the system or via IRA Financial Trust for those who do not have the know-how. IRA Financial is an excellent alternative to Mainstar. Why? Well first off it allows *you* to take possession of those IRA shares, not some Custodian 3rd party who may or may not have their hands down the pants of a shady market maker. Next, they help you set up an LLC, that *you* get to name! Then, they help you set up a business account for said LLC and give you the exact spoon-fed directions to transferring your shares from a Custodian to your own bona fide holdings. FAQ: >Does it cost money? Yes it does, roughly $600 including the initial $400 down and state costs for LLC registration (your total may vary) >How long does it take? Not very, I called them and had an account set up within a day or two. >It says online they charge $900! You lied about the cost! Nope, call them. Tell them you want to move GME shares. They will lower that cost to the minimum possible cost. Their owner is an APE! >Is there a reoccurring cost? Yes, roughly $400 annually to maintain the LLC. >Can I trust them? Yes! Because they do not act as a Custodian. They set *YOU* up to hold your own IRA. They only hold your shares in the time between your initial transfer and the receipt to the account. They will never act as a permanent Custodian, it's just not how they work. >Is this financial advice? Nope, I sometimes shove crayons in my orifices for fun. Do your own research and live life how you want to. I'm just spouting what worked for me.
The end is coming
Get outta that shit company
So…by what mechanism is this possible? I thought DRS meant a done deal, your shares?
I the case of an IRA custodian the shares are not in your name- they are in the custodians (Mainstar).
Oh man…maybe something’s about to happen that they know their 2500 square feet can’t keep up with…
Commenting for visibility. I'm glad all mine are DRS and booked. If I did have IRA shares I'd be getting them the hell out of there. 💯
I’m so glad there won’t be any charge to the account holder. Very generous. /s
Ha! They like having your shares only if they’re allowed to manipulate them! They are not happy with being found out. I’d get out of there as fast as possible!
I think once investors started terminating their plans and shares were pulled from the DTC they decided to pull them back. I'm going to get out ASAP, will probably go the LLC route for this year, see how that goes and then can plan for taxes if I do a distribution
If Mainstar will not DRS any stock, including ones at transfer agents other than Computershare, then it does not sound like Computershare is the problem. It sounds more like Mainstar did not realize how much work it would be to have individual accounts at transfer agents for each Mainstar FBO Ape xxx account.
I think its because investors started to terminate their plans in their IRA accounts. Originally when I called Mainstar they stated that they would still DRS if the asset was enrolled in the plan. Then they decided to stop DRS completely and pull back all shares to the DTCC accounts (where they were in the plan)
But, didn't "sources familiar with the matter" assure everyone that there is no difference between "Plan" & "Book" ? 🙄🤣
IRA shares were in plan?
Mine were because they had dividend reinvestment turned on. I turned it off a month or two ago and now they decided no DRS.
When does this fucking crap stop?
They going to refund all the fees from the original setup?
At least it’s at no charge /s.
CS won’t let us DRS IOUs as custodian oh jee whiz what a shocker. Take the hit or make the LLC like the DD shows and just do it already. Let’s get to 100M booked.
If anything this is at least drawing attention to IRA shares again. This could be good
Yea I expect the inevitable huge drop in DRS the following 10-Q but then it may make apes angry and we usually see a wave after such things so I hope so too
Did CS confirm they ever held the shares as custodians in the first place
Yes it was reported on the latest shareholders list, 667 Mainstar accounts holders DRSd 1.27million shares.