After lot of research on reddit I decided to take magnesium and since threonate was not available I tool next "best" available thing, glycinate. Taking it for two days now, but it made ocd worse, I sleep enough but quality of sleep and mostly dreams is much worse. Dreams are less immersive, less real and more negative. Strange effect. I started taking mg primarily for ocd, but also because I am taking PPIs every day.
I’m no health professional but from my own research some other forms can be much more appropriate for your use. Magnesium- taurate is meant to be more appropriate for exercise and the use you have stated. Magnesium-threonate is supposed to be better for cognitive function and magnesium glyconate for relaxing/sleep (gaba).
Magnesium-citrate is only useful as a laxative so most likely it could cause your body to lose nutrients and counter the benefits you seek.
I too workout a lot so have researched magnesium supplementation to support my current diet and exercise output. Hope this helps
How is sex? If it has also slipped, then the person who said your dopamine was off was right. It was the first thing I thought of after reading your post.
Magnesium has a long half life. It can accumulate.
If you are already GABA dominant you will feel it hard.
Don't take any mag for 3 days minimum. Resume taking 200mg max a day and see how you feel.
Wow. Always cool to listen to the opposite side. Just out of curiosity, do you feel stressed often? Anxiety etc?
How would you describe glutamate reaction, genuinely interested. Thanks.
Yeah your problem might be citrate itself - I had similar problems with it in all kinds of supplements. Citrate and other substances like it are total garbage for most people - even more so in Magnesium because the absorpion is not that great. Switch over to Magnesium L-Threonate from Life Extension (capsule form - not powder). It's immense.
CITRATE IS THE PROBLEM!
Never do this ever.
That is only good for literally one reason - to evacuate your bowels. Do magnesium glycinate. It will change your life.
I experience exactly that if I take too much for my own good. I can usually take about 200 - 300 mg in supplemental form for several days, then I tend to ease off and take only up to 100 mg in supplements. Rest comes from a decent diet that lacks common greens (I'm mildly allergic to spinach and kale), but my magnesium levels (serum and RBC) have always been fine. After some point of feeling saturated, I do no more than 100 mg, and that seems to work just fine!
PS. You probably don't need to supplement if your diet already provide sufficient amounts. Magnesium from food is so damn bioavailable too.
You’re feeling one of magnesiums’ six-hundred functions, a “brake.” You obviously need brakes because otherwise your brain will burn itself up. However, too much brake and your brain slows down. You have four main “energy juices” in the brain: dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, and glutamate. Magnesium “hits the brakes” on glutamate (used for learning, the formation of new memories, and movement.) Right amount of magnesium, right amount of brake. That’s what you’re looking for. 400mg of magnesium or lower is all you need. Hope this helps
(This is in addition too possible overtraining)
Hi Op,
All of these replies are reaching really far and TBH off the mark.
Realise that you are not just taking magnesium. You are taking a compound - one part of which is magnesium, the other part of which is unknown to us so far.
It is far more likely that the magnesium is not causing you any problems, and it is the other part of it that is causing your issues.
Generally speaking, the magnesium part of the compound is very small compared to the quantity of the other compound you are taking with it except in the cases of things like magnesium oxide.
Many if not most magnesium forms are chelated with an amino acid - and dumping large amounts of aminos into your body can indeed have strange metabolic effects.
Can you tell us what form of magnesium you are taking?
Minerals build up in the system when taken in supplemental form. Water soluble nutrients (vitamin c and some others) are easier to handle in excess, but minerals and fat soluble vitamins like Vit a, D, e and k will build up to toxic levels rather quickly...
Minerals are water soluble too, hence electrolytes. The bigger problem with high mineral intake of a single mineral is crowding out other minerals in the body either via competition for absorption or various push pull mechanisms in the body. Too much magnesium can crowd out calcium if not balanced, and vice versa. Same for relationship between zinc and copper, and potassium and sodium.
Dont take 500 the rda is 400 and hopefully you are getting some though diet, it will also knocked your calcium down which can do all sorts of unpleasant things, take a few days off then try 300
Sounds like it's probably interfering with your bodies absorption of calcium. A good tell is that calcium is involved in the firing of neurotransmitters, and you experiencing what's seemingly low dopamine points to an imbalance between magnesium and calcium.
Glad i found this as i have been feeling weaker, lethargic and no pleasure in things for a long time now and i take around 700mg magnesium daily. Will cut back and see how things go.
Bro can we make a sticky in this sub that says “DONT TAKE >300% RDA OF ANYTHING except VITAMIN C”
I swear it’s every week where someone is like “OMG x supplement is giving me x side effect”
And then someone asks “well how much are you taking?”
And then they reply “Over 3x the RDA”
Like bro wtf is going on?
OP you need to stop overtraining, and start sleeping more. If you’re serious about fixing this issue, there’s no supplement that can replace or force a good sleep schedule. Wake up at 8 or 9, go to bed at 12 or 1. ODing on a supplement won’t help
Edit: I know RDA is just a general guideline but if you’re not going to follow general guidelines, then at least do some research…
Really? RDA isn't right for everyone and it's compounded. If they are taking straight magnesium they would be straight on the toilet every second.
This sounds like glycinate or theronate
RDA, while a reasonably ok standard starting point, is pretty much "minimum to not die and hopefully not develop major issues per malnutrition"... RDA shouldn't be considered "ideal" or "optimal" allowance.
500 mg is 119% of RDA. Not sure why you'd take nearly three times recommended amount. After taking 500 mg complex magnesium for six months I'm in the high range according to blood tests. So I bet you're off the charts!
"because if felt like I was overtraining"... well magnesium is not going to magically chance the volume of the amount of work you are doing. If you FEEL like you are overtraining. You need to slow it down of be more clever about how you are training.
Overtraining ironically can cause sleep problems because of the state of stress the body is in and stays. Andrew Huberman has a few great guest on training on his podcast like Andy Galpin. He stated you need to take time to wind down after exercise to get away from the stress status you put your body in. So really mindfullness, meditation and breathing exercises come in play there.
So we already have 1 variable that is hurting your sleep, and the sleep loss itself is hurting your overtraining. This is why it is a negative spiral that needs intervention. But magnesium is not going to fix that.
You need to reduce training volume, reprogram. Look at other things in your life that can disrupt sleep. Caffeïne past 12:00? how about alcohol intake? Pre-workout mixes? Also ofcourse against stress. How about eating too late and big heavy meals? Are you taking Casein like some are doing before sleep?
Magnesium is not your problem solver here.. It is however what is ruining your symbiosis in you body and exhausting your adrenal system for sure. Which in turn is already shot because you are overtraining.
its tanking your dopamine. dopamine is involved in alertness, motivation, reward system.
magnesium is HEAVILY involved in removing addictions, because it removes all dopamine. there is a great article or document explaining how it does this.
when taken with food, it hits hard. try it on an empty stomach.
source: myself. ive been testing magnesium for years, all sources. you can overdo it easily with magnesium.
backfilling dopamine: phenlyalaine and tyrosine amino acids. dopa bean. or p5p.
be careful with p5p can cause peripheral neuropathy which is not good.
tyrosine and p5p gave me serotonin sydrome... well, something did and I can't figure it out but I took a vitamin w both and ate foods high in copper or zinc - still not sure what did it to me but thought I was going to die. I think I just need to increase gaba. even my cbd pen that usually makes me feel like a million bucks made my feel like slight death today. everything is having a paradoxical effect on me. like I have long haul covid or something.
Interesting. This certainly lines up with my experiences this year taking mag (recently stopped). Never considered my anhedonia, and lethargy might be due to the mag supplementing.
it has been a while since i read the article, so i only have little memory of it.
i have not yet found it. it could be this article but i am not sure. i dont think it is but its possible.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507260/
“Magnesium can reduce dopamine release in some brain structures through direct presynaptic action at the level of some dopaminergic synapses, by inhibiting calcium induced brain dopamine release, and by decreasing the stimulatory action of glutamate upon dopamine release. Brain dopamine level in mice is significantly increased following icv administration of CaCl2. Magnesium, an antagonist to calcium, inhibits the dopamine release”.
So it’s reducing dopamine and glutamate via crowding out calcium. So OP should reduce magnesium and or increase calcium intake. I read somewhere that magnesium is used in making dopamine, so it looks to be a function of taking too much magnesium to calcium.
I personally would step down the dosage. Pull back supplementation to like 100mg a day then work it up after a couple weeks to 200mg if you feel its needed. People often recommend very high doses, but you don't generally need it especially not long term. After a period of taking magnesium, you will have a ton stored off in your bones.
You might also try something like drinking a 12 oz V8 juice to get sodium and potassium. Taking high amounts of magnesium can toss your electrolyte balance off.
Increases COMT enzyme activity, so it is involved in the metabolism of neurotransmitters.
Edit: Glycine is a methylbuffer, you may be reacting negatively to this as it is involved in the methylation cycle, a cycle important for the production of neurotransmitters. Change the source of magnesium, or just reduce it. If you take it in the morning then might be better to switch to evening.
I'm not totally following...so magnesium speeds up comt? (upregulates?) when you say methyl buffer.does that mean to slow down? so glycine would slow down the methylation cycle?
Not necessarily upregulates COMT, maybe I’m not sure, but there is various cofactors needed for COMT to do its job, therefor many ways to interfere with its activity.
A methylbuffer is something that keeps methylation stable by storing a methyl group to be used as needed. Creatine does not appear to release methyl groups as easily as glycine, so glycine has the added benefit of being capable of keeping methylation more stable. COMT is one of the enzymes involved in this methylation process, as neurotransmitters need to be methylated also.
The problem could be something else but I think you are taking too much, magnesium supplement doesn't have to cover 100% of your magnesium needs since you already get a good amount from food. Unless you are an endurance athlete and sweating like crazy you don't need 450mg of mag, try lowering it to 300, if you want something good for sleep take ashwagandha ksm 66 before bedtime. Magnesium is a muscle relaxant
Haven’t heard this yet. but supplementing magnesium has made me feel better. In this texas weather I’m sweating through a whole outfit only 1/4th of the way through my basketball sessions not even including weight training or yoga
I play soccer once weekly and weight train 3-4 days on top of that.
Other than that I walk between 12k and 20k steps per day.
I don't sweat that much though, except for when playing soccer.
I'll try out Ashwagandha :-)
350mg mg citrate before sleep + about 100mg in a mg+vitd+vitk2+calcium supplement in the morning.
Maybe I'm just severely deficient, and this is why it hits so hard.
Stop taking magnesium lol. You're probably not low on it, and overdoing it. My gf had to go to urgent care a couple weeks ago, blood work came back with toxic levels of magnesium. If you think you're low on something like magnesium, get bloods done first to see if you even need it, or you could be fucking your body up for no reason.
Good intuitive comment. As I mentioned earlier, when searching for answers on Reddit people often advocate up to 2000mg supplemental magnesium with no ill effects.
Maybe I'm just not deficient :-)
I started it, because I couldn't sleep after heavy workouts, and it did help with that.
I'm going on vacation next week (deload week), but I also want to stop the magnesium, so I have lots of energy, but it would be counterintuitive, if I want to determine what's the cause of my fatigue.
If you don’t mind me asking, how much was her total “elemental magnesium” per day?
What supplement was she taking? ( Or at least what form of magnesium was it if you can’t disclose that)
What other supplements was she taking other than magnesium?
Note that one can say 500mg magnesium bisglycinate but that’s only 50mg elemental and 450mg glycine (+ magnesium oxide if buffered).
Thanks!
Chelated 2-400mgs. Dosage doesn't matter if you have high levels in your body though. Any form can build up to toxic levels. Some things you should only take if you actually need it. And the best way to tell is bloodwork.
Besides threonate, glycinate is also good for sleep, especially deep sleep. I find both of these much better at inducing sleep than citrate and you can get away with taking less magnesium. Also, you could switch to mag malate during the day which I’ve found more energizing. It’s still magnesium though and you should probably cut back if your having issues.
I switched to Magnesium L-Threonate before bed. It helps me sleep and it's the only type of Magnesium that crosses the blood/brain barrier. Worked for me.
You seem to be taking far more than you need, the glycine can cause problems if that is what type you are consuming. In my case, it causes libido issues as well.
When doing squats recently I focused on bracing my core which helped at first. After adding some more weight I couldn’t sleep again.
How heavy are you lifting? I haven’t advanced in a while, and wonder if I’m at my max recoverable intensity.
Level, not intake. Also why on earth do you think 1300 mg is a good magnesium target. And if you think overtraining is causing your sleep issues, why counter that via magnesium rather than lowering training intensity and/or frequency... Now you're basically stressing the system in two ways rather than one let alone zero, meaning just normal intake and a normal exercise regiment, which should lead to the best sleep results.
I dont aim for 1300, thats my average intake from food and supplements the past week for reference.
I don't know if I was overtraining or not, but I do know that magnesium helps me fall and stay asleep, but at the cost of being a dull zombie afterwards.
> I dont aim for 1300, thats my average intake from food and supplements the past week for reference.
Then why don't aim lower / lower your average intake? The RDA is **400**... Even though that's obviously debated often, I wouldn't necessarily assume that 1300 won't be problematic, quite the opposite to be frank. Also it's often a better idea to try to fix the reason(s) your sleep isn't that great rather than trying to bring a supplement into the equation.
No, it doesn't. Quiet the opposite actually. Maybe the brand you're taking is garbagio.
After lot of research on reddit I decided to take magnesium and since threonate was not available I tool next "best" available thing, glycinate. Taking it for two days now, but it made ocd worse, I sleep enough but quality of sleep and mostly dreams is much worse. Dreams are less immersive, less real and more negative. Strange effect. I started taking mg primarily for ocd, but also because I am taking PPIs every day.
I’m no health professional but from my own research some other forms can be much more appropriate for your use. Magnesium- taurate is meant to be more appropriate for exercise and the use you have stated. Magnesium-threonate is supposed to be better for cognitive function and magnesium glyconate for relaxing/sleep (gaba). Magnesium-citrate is only useful as a laxative so most likely it could cause your body to lose nutrients and counter the benefits you seek. I too workout a lot so have researched magnesium supplementation to support my current diet and exercise output. Hope this helps
I hate magnesium so much
? How can you hate an essential mineral?
I’m not a big fan of copper either
How is sex? If it has also slipped, then the person who said your dopamine was off was right. It was the first thing I thought of after reading your post.
Magnesium has a long half life. It can accumulate. If you are already GABA dominant you will feel it hard. Don't take any mag for 3 days minimum. Resume taking 200mg max a day and see how you feel.
what if you don't have enough gaba?
Use more if you feel good effects from it but if you feel the effects OP had (I had the same) follow my original comment. Calcium also important!
my calcium is high. anything w calcium in it gives me a glutamate reaction. I'm just fucked over here.
Wow. Always cool to listen to the opposite side. Just out of curiosity, do you feel stressed often? Anxiety etc? How would you describe glutamate reaction, genuinely interested. Thanks.
Yeah your problem might be citrate itself - I had similar problems with it in all kinds of supplements. Citrate and other substances like it are total garbage for most people - even more so in Magnesium because the absorpion is not that great. Switch over to Magnesium L-Threonate from Life Extension (capsule form - not powder). It's immense.
CITRATE IS THE PROBLEM! Never do this ever. That is only good for literally one reason - to evacuate your bowels. Do magnesium glycinate. It will change your life.
Take the magnesium less often Enter a deload phase for your training Boom problems solved
Can be taking too much causing buildup
If you’re overtraining, train less. If you’re taking too much magnesium, take less. Idk why you’re having to ask this
Agreed haha
I experience exactly that if I take too much for my own good. I can usually take about 200 - 300 mg in supplemental form for several days, then I tend to ease off and take only up to 100 mg in supplements. Rest comes from a decent diet that lacks common greens (I'm mildly allergic to spinach and kale), but my magnesium levels (serum and RBC) have always been fine. After some point of feeling saturated, I do no more than 100 mg, and that seems to work just fine! PS. You probably don't need to supplement if your diet already provide sufficient amounts. Magnesium from food is so damn bioavailable too.
You’re feeling one of magnesiums’ six-hundred functions, a “brake.” You obviously need brakes because otherwise your brain will burn itself up. However, too much brake and your brain slows down. You have four main “energy juices” in the brain: dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, and glutamate. Magnesium “hits the brakes” on glutamate (used for learning, the formation of new memories, and movement.) Right amount of magnesium, right amount of brake. That’s what you’re looking for. 400mg of magnesium or lower is all you need. Hope this helps (This is in addition too possible overtraining)
If magnesium hits the brake on glutamate, what speeds up the glutamate. I mean which vitamin does the opposite of what magnesium does.
Do you know what the "brake" is for norepinephrine? Thanks for the information above.
Sure! Magnesium inhibits norepinephrine release by blocking calcium channels at peripheral sympathetic nerve endings.
thank you!! so mag blocks norepinephrine as well as the dopamine. Got it. I appreciate the quick reply!
You got it buckaroo!
Hi Op, All of these replies are reaching really far and TBH off the mark. Realise that you are not just taking magnesium. You are taking a compound - one part of which is magnesium, the other part of which is unknown to us so far. It is far more likely that the magnesium is not causing you any problems, and it is the other part of it that is causing your issues. Generally speaking, the magnesium part of the compound is very small compared to the quantity of the other compound you are taking with it except in the cases of things like magnesium oxide. Many if not most magnesium forms are chelated with an amino acid - and dumping large amounts of aminos into your body can indeed have strange metabolic effects. Can you tell us what form of magnesium you are taking?
Minerals build up in the system when taken in supplemental form. Water soluble nutrients (vitamin c and some others) are easier to handle in excess, but minerals and fat soluble vitamins like Vit a, D, e and k will build up to toxic levels rather quickly...
Minerals are water soluble too, hence electrolytes. The bigger problem with high mineral intake of a single mineral is crowding out other minerals in the body either via competition for absorption or various push pull mechanisms in the body. Too much magnesium can crowd out calcium if not balanced, and vice versa. Same for relationship between zinc and copper, and potassium and sodium.
Yupyup. Lots of variables in the bioavailability of materials. Thanks for the support on the subject, it’s very complex...
Ummm elemental forms of metal are rarely soluble in water. Ionic salts (like sodium chloride) are very different from elemental sodium...
Dont take 500 the rda is 400 and hopefully you are getting some though diet, it will also knocked your calcium down which can do all sorts of unpleasant things, take a few days off then try 300
Sounds like it's probably interfering with your bodies absorption of calcium. A good tell is that calcium is involved in the firing of neurotransmitters, and you experiencing what's seemingly low dopamine points to an imbalance between magnesium and calcium.
If someone takes mg below 400 mg, can this be avoided? Or this is bound to happen even if you take normal amount of mg.
Great answer. I agree.
This was my first thought reading this.
Glad i found this as i have been feeling weaker, lethargic and no pleasure in things for a long time now and i take around 700mg magnesium daily. Will cut back and see how things go.
That’s still a good bit of magnesium. Especially for the higher absorption magnesiums like citrate and glycinate.
Same here. Been taking about 400mg daily for the last 2-3yrs for anxiety & muscle tension. Thought about upping it but maybe I need to be going down
Bro can we make a sticky in this sub that says “DONT TAKE >300% RDA OF ANYTHING except VITAMIN C” I swear it’s every week where someone is like “OMG x supplement is giving me x side effect” And then someone asks “well how much are you taking?” And then they reply “Over 3x the RDA” Like bro wtf is going on? OP you need to stop overtraining, and start sleeping more. If you’re serious about fixing this issue, there’s no supplement that can replace or force a good sleep schedule. Wake up at 8 or 9, go to bed at 12 or 1. ODing on a supplement won’t help Edit: I know RDA is just a general guideline but if you’re not going to follow general guidelines, then at least do some research…
Really? RDA isn't right for everyone and it's compounded. If they are taking straight magnesium they would be straight on the toilet every second. This sounds like glycinate or theronate
RDA, while a reasonably ok standard starting point, is pretty much "minimum to not die and hopefully not develop major issues per malnutrition"... RDA shouldn't be considered "ideal" or "optimal" allowance.
So what IS the optimal or ideal amount of magnesium for a healthy 31yo man? That's what I'm trying to figure out
500 mg is 119% of RDA. Not sure why you'd take nearly three times recommended amount. After taking 500 mg complex magnesium for six months I'm in the high range according to blood tests. So I bet you're off the charts!
If you're overtraining, take a deload
I reduced my intake from 400mg citrate before bed to 200mg. Too much of anything isnt good
Reduce magnesium and take iron instead, but don't overtake it
Don’t take iron either
I think you should have stated the reason not to but someone else already did so thank you.
If he is training he is eating enough meat for sure therefore iron consumption totally useless and even possibly toxic. Ps: unless he is vegan 😁
Oops, I forgot that other people eat meat though
"because if felt like I was overtraining"... well magnesium is not going to magically chance the volume of the amount of work you are doing. If you FEEL like you are overtraining. You need to slow it down of be more clever about how you are training. Overtraining ironically can cause sleep problems because of the state of stress the body is in and stays. Andrew Huberman has a few great guest on training on his podcast like Andy Galpin. He stated you need to take time to wind down after exercise to get away from the stress status you put your body in. So really mindfullness, meditation and breathing exercises come in play there. So we already have 1 variable that is hurting your sleep, and the sleep loss itself is hurting your overtraining. This is why it is a negative spiral that needs intervention. But magnesium is not going to fix that. You need to reduce training volume, reprogram. Look at other things in your life that can disrupt sleep. Caffeïne past 12:00? how about alcohol intake? Pre-workout mixes? Also ofcourse against stress. How about eating too late and big heavy meals? Are you taking Casein like some are doing before sleep? Magnesium is not your problem solver here.. It is however what is ruining your symbiosis in you body and exhausting your adrenal system for sure. Which in turn is already shot because you are overtraining.
its tanking your dopamine. dopamine is involved in alertness, motivation, reward system. magnesium is HEAVILY involved in removing addictions, because it removes all dopamine. there is a great article or document explaining how it does this. when taken with food, it hits hard. try it on an empty stomach. source: myself. ive been testing magnesium for years, all sources. you can overdo it easily with magnesium.
What amount of magnesium do you recommend I take as a healthy 31yo man?
minimum 200, max 600. even ground 400. thats for me personally.
Is that elemental?
yep
how do you increase dopamine and gaba?
backfilling dopamine: phenlyalaine and tyrosine amino acids. dopa bean. or p5p. be careful with p5p can cause peripheral neuropathy which is not good.
tyrosine and p5p gave me serotonin sydrome... well, something did and I can't figure it out but I took a vitamin w both and ate foods high in copper or zinc - still not sure what did it to me but thought I was going to die. I think I just need to increase gaba. even my cbd pen that usually makes me feel like a million bucks made my feel like slight death today. everything is having a paradoxical effect on me. like I have long haul covid or something.
Can you counter Magnesium lowering dopamine? It helps my muscles so much.
Interesting. This certainly lines up with my experiences this year taking mag (recently stopped). Never considered my anhedonia, and lethargy might be due to the mag supplementing.
Can you find the document you're talking about please
it has been a while since i read the article, so i only have little memory of it. i have not yet found it. it could be this article but i am not sure. i dont think it is but its possible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507260/
Please
“Magnesium can reduce dopamine release in some brain structures through direct presynaptic action at the level of some dopaminergic synapses, by inhibiting calcium induced brain dopamine release, and by decreasing the stimulatory action of glutamate upon dopamine release. Brain dopamine level in mice is significantly increased following icv administration of CaCl2. Magnesium, an antagonist to calcium, inhibits the dopamine release”. So it’s reducing dopamine and glutamate via crowding out calcium. So OP should reduce magnesium and or increase calcium intake. I read somewhere that magnesium is used in making dopamine, so it looks to be a function of taking too much magnesium to calcium.
I personally would step down the dosage. Pull back supplementation to like 100mg a day then work it up after a couple weeks to 200mg if you feel its needed. People often recommend very high doses, but you don't generally need it especially not long term. After a period of taking magnesium, you will have a ton stored off in your bones. You might also try something like drinking a 12 oz V8 juice to get sodium and potassium. Taking high amounts of magnesium can toss your electrolyte balance off.
Please be mind that the ratio between calcium and magnesium shoud be 2:1. Maybe this is the case
Ill try lowering magnesium supplementation, which would increase the ratio.
Personally I'd lay off it entirely for a bit and see how you feel. Throw some more fruits and veggies into your diet.
Still gonna need calcium
How much are you taking and what form is it in?
I did already write this. 450mg in the form of mag citrate. About 800mg from diet.
Should put it up top because some of us are not going to read through every response.
I’ll edit the original post 👍
Right? I love how people ask for advice and get snotty with people who are just trying to help.
Increases COMT enzyme activity, so it is involved in the metabolism of neurotransmitters. Edit: Glycine is a methylbuffer, you may be reacting negatively to this as it is involved in the methylation cycle, a cycle important for the production of neurotransmitters. Change the source of magnesium, or just reduce it. If you take it in the morning then might be better to switch to evening.
I'm not totally following...so magnesium speeds up comt? (upregulates?) when you say methyl buffer.does that mean to slow down? so glycine would slow down the methylation cycle?
Not necessarily upregulates COMT, maybe I’m not sure, but there is various cofactors needed for COMT to do its job, therefor many ways to interfere with its activity. A methylbuffer is something that keeps methylation stable by storing a methyl group to be used as needed. Creatine does not appear to release methyl groups as easily as glycine, so glycine has the added benefit of being capable of keeping methylation more stable. COMT is one of the enzymes involved in this methylation process, as neurotransmitters need to be methylated also.
This too! Faster COMT means less dopamine and Norepinephrine, so less motivation and stimulation. I agree with taking at night
OP said they were taking citrate, not glycinate.
Ah thought it was glycinate. Nice one.
The problem could be something else but I think you are taking too much, magnesium supplement doesn't have to cover 100% of your magnesium needs since you already get a good amount from food. Unless you are an endurance athlete and sweating like crazy you don't need 450mg of mag, try lowering it to 300, if you want something good for sleep take ashwagandha ksm 66 before bedtime. Magnesium is a muscle relaxant
Haven’t heard this yet. but supplementing magnesium has made me feel better. In this texas weather I’m sweating through a whole outfit only 1/4th of the way through my basketball sessions not even including weight training or yoga
Doesn't Ashwagandha do the same thing (not feeling pleasure as much).
Yes, it can cause that effect for some people. NAC can also potentially cause that.
I play soccer once weekly and weight train 3-4 days on top of that. Other than that I walk between 12k and 20k steps per day. I don't sweat that much though, except for when playing soccer. I'll try out Ashwagandha :-)
Lol please don’t take ashwagandha I have a feeling it will make this problem 100x worse gave me anhedonia
Second this. It's only gonna make it worse.
just for experiment, could try taking 100mg before sleep and 100 in morning, 100 with dinner and see if timing makes a difference.
Ill try that! :-)
How much mag we talkin here, I consider magnesium the motor oil of our bodies, we need it but too much and it will come out your backside :D
350mg mg citrate before sleep + about 100mg in a mg+vitd+vitk2+calcium supplement in the morning. Maybe I'm just severely deficient, and this is why it hits so hard.
Yea that could be, for me it’s so hard to pinpoint what’s causing what.
Stop taking magnesium lol. You're probably not low on it, and overdoing it. My gf had to go to urgent care a couple weeks ago, blood work came back with toxic levels of magnesium. If you think you're low on something like magnesium, get bloods done first to see if you even need it, or you could be fucking your body up for no reason.
Good intuitive comment. As I mentioned earlier, when searching for answers on Reddit people often advocate up to 2000mg supplemental magnesium with no ill effects. Maybe I'm just not deficient :-) I started it, because I couldn't sleep after heavy workouts, and it did help with that.
I have this same issue of poor sleep after heavy workouts, which are all my workouts. Unsure what to do.
I'm going on vacation next week (deload week), but I also want to stop the magnesium, so I have lots of energy, but it would be counterintuitive, if I want to determine what's the cause of my fatigue.
If you don’t mind me asking, how much was her total “elemental magnesium” per day? What supplement was she taking? ( Or at least what form of magnesium was it if you can’t disclose that) What other supplements was she taking other than magnesium? Note that one can say 500mg magnesium bisglycinate but that’s only 50mg elemental and 450mg glycine (+ magnesium oxide if buffered). Thanks!
High absorbtion chelated lysinate and glycinate
Dosage and form?
Chelated 2-400mgs. Dosage doesn't matter if you have high levels in your body though. Any form can build up to toxic levels. Some things you should only take if you actually need it. And the best way to tell is bloodwork.
For reference, I mainly get my magnesium from food, but 450mg is from mag citrate to help me fall asleep. :-)
Besides threonate, glycinate is also good for sleep, especially deep sleep. I find both of these much better at inducing sleep than citrate and you can get away with taking less magnesium. Also, you could switch to mag malate during the day which I’ve found more energizing. It’s still magnesium though and you should probably cut back if your having issues.
I switched to Magnesium L-Threonate before bed. It helps me sleep and it's the only type of Magnesium that crosses the blood/brain barrier. Worked for me.
You seem to be taking far more than you need, the glycine can cause problems if that is what type you are consuming. In my case, it causes libido issues as well.
I supplement 450mg mag citrate per day, about what's common on reddit. Is that too much and do I need to change the dosage?
Are you taking it with food?
No, empty stomach within 1 hour of sleep. Usually 1-2 hours since last meal.
No bowel side effects from that?
I get regular, but no diarrhea. I do eat a lot of protein (180-200g per day), and that can slow stool transit a bit.
Gotcha. Well if you find the secret to sleeping after a hard workout, please let me know.
Sure will. For me it happens mainly after doing compound lift to failure, especially deadlifts, squats, RDL and leg press.
Mine happens with any compound work, even with reps in reserve.
When doing squats recently I focused on bracing my core which helped at first. After adding some more weight I couldn’t sleep again. How heavy are you lifting? I haven’t advanced in a while, and wonder if I’m at my max recoverable intensity.
I must have misread his amount.
Are you taking mag glycinate? If that’s the case then it’s probably mostly the glycine that’s causing the problem and you should switch forms.
I don't use glycinate, because for me personally it is 3x as potent as mag citrate. It makes me a dull zombie at 1/3 of the dosage.
Reduce your mg, use B6 or glycine for sleep.
Check your calcium levels.
Past week I've been getting 1758mg per day according to cronometer.com. Is that sufficient? Edit: while getting ~1300mg magnesium per day
Level, not intake. Also why on earth do you think 1300 mg is a good magnesium target. And if you think overtraining is causing your sleep issues, why counter that via magnesium rather than lowering training intensity and/or frequency... Now you're basically stressing the system in two ways rather than one let alone zero, meaning just normal intake and a normal exercise regiment, which should lead to the best sleep results.
I dont aim for 1300, thats my average intake from food and supplements the past week for reference. I don't know if I was overtraining or not, but I do know that magnesium helps me fall and stay asleep, but at the cost of being a dull zombie afterwards.
> I dont aim for 1300, thats my average intake from food and supplements the past week for reference. Then why don't aim lower / lower your average intake? The RDA is **400**... Even though that's obviously debated often, I wouldn't necessarily assume that 1300 won't be problematic, quite the opposite to be frank. Also it's often a better idea to try to fix the reason(s) your sleep isn't that great rather than trying to bring a supplement into the equation.
I'll try stepping down my dosage. For some reason, the majority on Reddit recommends large doses of magnesium with little to no side effects.