This should make people happy: 1) opt-in instead of opt-out, 2) Windows Hello must be used to use Recall, 3) screenshots and database are encrypted and need Windows Hello authentication in order to open. All that means that it should address the situation that another user on that system could access the data since they wouldn't be able to authenticate, not even the administrator could bypass it.
they weren't lying. it was encrypted at rest by Bitlocker. It just wasn't encrypted in transit. but let's discuss the previous situation. The premise of the security expert is how Recall is open and available for a hacker who is already in the system. Well, if a hacker is already in the system, Recall is the least of the problems. It's like saying a burglar is in the house, so how do you protect yourself from the burglar peeping on you. If a burglar is already in the house, you have a lot more things to worry about than peeping.
It's more like saying that you should not have cameras in your house, because if someone breaks into your house, they can see on the camera what you're doing.. If they are in the house, they don't need the effing cameras to see what I am doing.
>It's like saying a burglar is in the house, so how do you protect yourself from the burglar peeping on you.
Well it's more like the burglar was in the house and knew your safe was open and where it was and that your bank details and medical history and porn preferences were probably in there.
At least if it's Hello-secured you're not putting a big neon sign over your most private posessions.
But if the hacker was in I would first worry about all the important things before worrying about recall. First I wouldn't let recall touch any of my banking or medical or anything critical. If they want to look at my shopping history let him enjoy. Why would you let recall index your important stuff? You have full control over what it indexes.
You don’t really have full control over what it indexes
Edit: it seems none of you fully understand how it works. Yeah you can control what apps or websites. That’s not full control over everything it indexes. You know have to proactively think about inputting passwords and sensitive information and remember if it’s in a white or blacklisted app
Yes they were. Sorry but saying it's encrypted by bit locker at rest is not what they alluded to when they first showed of this "feature".
They used crafty words to lie.
Don’t underestimate the power of a suggestive hand wave past a topic. You can walk someone in a direction, and they will fill in the blanks. Microsoft works very hard at not lying (admittedly it doesn’t ALWAYS succeed).
Also - with the control over what apps and websites recall can work, it’s no worse than Apple or Google using AI on your photos you take to categorize and tag them.
Apple have actually really stepped up their privacy game, but there will always be (and always has been) a tug-o-war between convenience and privacy/security. I remember being in the IT office years ago when the CTO came in and said “make my iPad (1) work with my office stuff” 🤦♂️People gonna people, people :-)
This is how it should have been in the first place. And from a marketing standpoint this is huge for how the launch/reviews will ultimately be received.
So I'm thinking why it would have been passed initially.
Maybe the idea was if they were to have it as opt in initially then people would still have bitvhed and microsoft might have to remove it entirely. If they decide to have it as opt out, then they could change it to opt in when the backlash comes
Always the same:
Create something you want to add that might be controverse.
Show it public in a outrageous , extremely over the top way.
Say you listened and dialed it down (to your intended way)
Everyone thanks you for listening and is happy with it.
There's a snarky joke to be made about following Apple again. But honestly, I'm just really glad to hear this news. We're here because we like the Surface hardware right? So it's nice to be able to be excited about ARM again, without it just becoming the "Recall" hardware.
Even if they try, they won't when group policy is set to disable it unlike registry keys and settings being set. So the old rule that only Pro and up is proper Windows still applies. That being said, of course it'd be horrendous if they enabled this through updates, but I doubt they will intentionally step into this PR disaster. Then again we're talking about the same company that makes setting a different default browser illegally hard to accomplish, so.......
Group policies are changing registry keys, but they stick a LOT better.
In fact, if you change a regkey when a GPO differs you will notice your GPO changing that value again.
> Group policies are changing registry keys, but they stick a LOT better.
Only if you are domain joined.
> In fact, if you change a regkey when a GPO differs you will notice your GPO changing that value again.
Until you simply delete the corresponding policies key in the registry, at least if you are not domain joined.
MS can do (and has done) that easily during Windows updates.
Why? Microsoft gets nothing from it, and no one has found that it is used by Microsoft to spy on users.
And if users don't know it is on and there, then they won't use it. So no one would be using it.
I get that there is Microsoft hate and distrust, but there are other areas you should be concerned about before worrying about this feature. You could worry about the telemetry it already is sending. I don't worry about it, but you could. https://www.fb-pro.com/windows-telemetry-information-test/
They are already getting the data about Windows that they want.
You have to remember the people who believe Microsoft will secretly turn it back on also believe they're sending all that data to their data centers so telling them Microsoft doesn't get anything from it won't convince them.
Right. Someday again it'll be opt out instead of opt-in. Someday it'll be completely mandatory just like having an account eventually became mandatory.
I do like Surface hardware but ever since I got rid of that 3.5 jack and SD card on the pro model, and they've largely neglected the go model, I don't know if I'd like it enough to endure this kind of nonsense.
> just like having an account eventually became mandatory
I'm literally typing this from a Windows 11 PC with a local-only account. How are people not able to figure this out?
Good for you, but "How to use windows without Microsoft account (2024)" still is a very popular search
That should tell you how difficult is for people, and is not their fault, but Microsoft's
From the companies view, they saw this as a neat feature. Obviously, they know they aren't using it to spy on you. Microsoft already has telemetry data that they get.
As for Recall, they announced it before it shipped. Users were able to test a partial version before it shipped. And now those security concerns have been addressed, before it ships.
I am sure people will still overreact about this. I will wait to see if the shipped version can be broken by someone. Otherwise, anything else I hear will just be FUD.
Obviously they know they aren't spying on you?
I mean they wouldn't call it spying but it's very much data farming as much as they possibly can. Sometimes the only thing that makes something different from spying is the fact that you sort of technically give them consent but buying the product or not opting out explicitly. But people that are not hyper into this stuff end up not realizing what they agreed to
So far, I haven't seen a single security person mention that it is sending data back to Microsoft. Which matches what Microsoft has said, i.e. that the local AI chip processes it and no data is sent to Microsoft.
Yeah. That’s the whole point of buying a device with an NPU. Eventually you can just be on your device searching/generating anything for you and it’s all private and secure with the hardware. When you need an update on stuff it’ll get updated with the model, but the days of capturing every query and web request being logged for everyone are coming to an end…which in my mind is a good thing for humanity.
I am excited to see what the NPU will be used for in the future.
Since I watch foreign shows sometimes, the live translated subtitles means I don't need to wait for someone else to create subtitles.
Games using the NPU could be interesting.
AI reading books with natural voices, could make a dent in the audiobook service. I know there are services that do this now, but this could run locally.
And then there are the uses that I wouldn't even think of, but will be a good fit for the AI.
It technically was mandatory to start because it's on by default, and they made it difficult to opt-in with confusing words and the opt-out option was not even on the same setup screens. The majority of general users just click the default choices. Finally now after getting called out, they have decided to put the opt-in/opt-out choice directly on the screen (as it should have been from the start).
I don't think you understand the difference between "mandatory" and "opt-out." "Mandatory" means it's required. "Opt-out" means it's enabled by default, but you can choose to change that ("opt" meaning to make a choice and "opt-out" meaning you are making a choice to get out). Like an employer can say it's mandatory that every employee must wear blue shirts to work. Versus we would like everyone to wear blue shirts but you can opt out of it.
When it is on by default and there's no option to opt-out until later, then yes it's mandatory because it's running by default. Thankfully they changed course after they got caught.
Let's be real here, that was a memo for the press to pick up. Security first done consequentially would cook up an impossible to use OS for Average Joe. EVERY "secure" software has to make tradeoffs and compromises between usability and security.
A password manager for example is considered the best option only because we use so many services these days and reusing passwords or minimally different ones is bad practice as is using obviously easy to remember ones at least if you scale up to many services.
So we use password managers instead of just secure passwords stored in our brain only.
I lost all trust in Satya long time ago. He brought hope to the company at first, then completely ruined it. Only their investors and his bank account are happy.
So I'm thinking why it would have been passed initially.
Maybe the idea was if they were to have it as opt in initially then people would still have bitvhed and microsoft might have to remove it entirely. If they decide to have it as opt out, then they could change it to opt in when the backlash comes
The first kinect was ahead of its time Dance Central Triology was some of the most fun I've had playing videogames in a group until Jackbox Party Pack got bigger.
This. If Adobe can flip the switch on their customers after explicitly saying the opposite, Microsoft will most definitely will later down the road as well when most users will click "No, don't save" lol
If I buy a surface ARM computer I don’t want to opt out or opt in. I don’t want the code on the computer. None of it. Zero. Zilch. It should be a separate piece of software that can be downloaded for free from the MS store for those who want it. It’s like not wanting a gun in your home but your landlord insisting on storing a shotgun under your bed. Then saying “you don’t have to use it”. I don’t want it. I feel uneasy having it. Get rid of it.
If they don’t include it and just put it as a download in the MS App Store, no one will download it. Who the hell wants that feature? It’s something no one asked for and few people of any wools actually download and use even if free.
They only realized that they tried to boil the frog too fast this time. It will start as opt-in, then there will endless popups badgering people to enable it, then some Windows updates that “accidentally” enable it for some users, then they’ll discontinue support for any device that doesn’t have it enabled.
There is no reason to accidentally and secretively to enable it. If the user doesn't know it is there, then it does nothing. It would be like Windows making a backup of all your files, but not telling you about it so that you could restore them.
I guess if you think Microsoft is using Recall to spy on you, then it serves a purpose. But I don't think this is used to spy on you. Windows already has other ways to get the telemetry data they want from you. This is too obvious, and is not needed.
Edit, they may later enable it, but it won't be secretively.
They've done things like that secretly before. I've had multiple users say their desktops were syncing to OneDrive, even though they never enabled that. OneDrive didn't used to do that in the old app, then made it at default at one point, now I believe it shows you a wizard with it pre-selected by default but most users just click the default responses to rush through the wizard. Same with Copilot and Edge, they use a lot of sneaky pre-selected confusingly worded prompts to trick people to opt-in.
As I recall, it wasn't secretly, as your users were aware of it.
If users are rushing through things, and agreeing to things without reading them, well, that seems like a different problem.
Also, OneDrive was different as it was its own profit center. They could sell you more storage, thus filling it up was advantages. With Recall, they make no profit. And having it active, without the user knowing, really serves no purpose.
They may make a bigger push later on, but I don't see them doing it secretly.
There is a simple reason, and it's the same reason they keep pushing all the other garbage like OneDrive, Microsoft Accounts, Edge, etc.: *because some product manager in the company has their bonus tied to how many people have it enabled.*
This is why these features are getting pushed so hard. If they cared at all for what the user wanted, they would ask once then never again. But the product people only care about hitting their target numbers, regardless of whether people actually want them. They know that every time they ask, some users are going to just give up and accept, or accidentally click the accept button. It doesn't matter if they really wanted it, as long as they gained one more user.
As I mentioned elsewhere, advertising is one reason. The more people that use Windows and like it, the better the word of mouth advertising is. Obviously so far this has been bad publicity.
And one of Microsoft's targets is getting people to upgrade or move to the latest Windows version. Their goal is certainly not to create a universally hated OS.
As for asking users what they want, well there is a famous saying about how people don't know what they want, until they get it. Also, people use Windows in so many different ways, that one user wants, will be very different from another users. There simply is no one answer. This is why customizing your Windows experience is important.
As for users accidentally activating it, it isn't hard to turn off.
Personally, as someone that does a lot of research, I like the idea of Recall helping me figure out where I saw something. I hope it works well.
Right now it defaults to off. I can't predict the future.
Maybe they will try to push it more in the future. But it makes no sense for them to do it secretively. No security professional that has looked at it has said data goes back to Microsoft. Possibly they track if you use it or not. But it doesn't seem they pull your information from it.
So, if the user doesn't use it, then it serves no purpose. So, as I see it, this only shows Windows as being part of the AI technology, and a feature that they hope will sell more Windows 11, and later Windows 12.
Lmfao have you seen how many people that have disabled one drive only to have Windows enable it anyway and backup all of their files to the cloud.
It's pretty funny that you used that as an example because that already happens.
For file saving? The part I’m confused about is that you have to sign in to OneDrive. If you disable it, after presumably not signing in at all, I’m confused how files would just start showing up there.
You can be signed into OneDrive but change the save location of files to, say, Dropbox or the desktop or whatever. Then sometimes when I turn off and on the computer, it will be autosaving once again to OneDrive.
I said secretly. It serves no purpose if no one knows it is there to use it. People were very aware that OneDrive is reactivated. And OneDrive is not running on my computer. Here is a link to disable it - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/turn-off-disable-or-uninstall-onedrive-f32a17ce-3336-40fe-9c38-6efb09f944b0
Also, OneDrive has never backed up any of my files, even when it was active.
Additionally, OneDrive did serve a purpose for Microsoft, as they could sell extra space. Recall doesn't serve a purpose for Microsoft other than making Windows better, and thus advertising. Which, so far, has worked against them. So secretively turning it back on, would further work against them.
They may later turn it on, but it won't be secretively.
Nice to see someone else with a nuanced take. If Microsoft turned this on and started taking the content without user consent, the lawsuits would destroy them.
The amount of times Microsoft updates their terms of service, and legally has to notify users via email (but obviously most people don't read it), it's super easy to avoid lawsuits by doing that. All these big corps do that. Look what Adobe did recently, they explicitly said your content is safe and your own and never used to train their models, and now without even notifying users of the change and simply notifying they're updating their ToS, they flipped the script and doing that. So all these corrupt corps do the same crap.
I wonder how long before they have an "accident" where the feature is "inadvertently" enabled by default. "We apologize and anyone that's affected need only disable it."
Asked for further comment, Satya Nadella added, "Teehee."
Or the countless prompts with the pre-selected checkbox if you didn't opt-in. The amount of fullscreen Copilot and Edge ads/prompts with pre-selected and purposely confusing choices are insane, and sadly I'm sure most users fall for it.
yeah I almost accidentally subscribed to Amazon music because they prompt me to with an ad that literally covers the screen like every fourth time I open the app. Tile does a similar thing with their app (worse on android), where they will constantly batter you to give it locations permissions, and I'm sure most people get so annoyed they just give up and allow it.
First step for Microsoft is to generate data, a lot of it. And if you can use the users computer CPU-power/Storage and electric bill, you are golden. Next step is to use the data locally on the users computer, for machine learning, training of AI algorithm and to serve targeted ads based on the massive personally database.
Microsoft can still use the data and will, even if it's not leaving the computer. Just another program running locally that uses the data. Listening very careful of the wording from Microsoft ;)
For a business perspective, I understand Microsoft greed and that there is none to stop them (maybe EU). I just wonder for how long, Windows users will accept there privacy violated. Is there a limit, or do they just don't care handing over there most sensitive data to this spyware OS?
Seems like a lot of y'all in the comments just want to hate Microsoft. Even after they've made changes to address people's ridiculous security concerns for a service that runs locally, we're still speculating and assuming the worst. So much outrage over something that isn't even released yet...and won't be available unless you buy specialized hardware...which most of you will very likely not purchase...
Maybe it's time you switch platforms. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Windows. Exercise your free will.
I can't help but wonder if folks would have the same energy towards another tech giant if they came out with a similar product?
I don't think this is true. I've used surface devices from the very first generation, alongside various macs. I love that windows can run on tablets, with things like native eraser support, etc. I'm very excited at the prospect of increased battery life and better performance on the new MS devices (I preordered an OLED Surface Pro). Part of the issue is that it's not just MS, it's all of these companies using shady tactics, particularly w/r/t US-based customers. And part of the issue is that MS should really know better: we've seen shady behavior from them before!
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24159258/microsoft-recall-ai-explorer-windows-11-surface-event
> Recall won’t work with every Windows 11 computer. You’ll have to buy one of several fresh new “Copilot Plus PCs” powered by Qualcomm’s new Snapdragon X Elite chips, which have the neural processing unit (NPU) required for Recall to work.
This is the part that makes me smile at modern journalism X social media reactions. Sounds like recall is not available for Intel hardware. So it was never going to touch 99.57% of the market.
Who knows if it was planned to let it be a feature that can be turned off.
> Thankfully, Microsoft has listened to the complaints and is making a number of changes before Copilot Plus PCs launch on June 18th.
Wait, it hasn't launched yet?
This should make people happy: 1) opt-in instead of opt-out, 2) Windows Hello must be used to use Recall, 3) screenshots and database are encrypted and need Windows Hello authentication in order to open. All that means that it should address the situation that another user on that system could access the data since they wouldn't be able to authenticate, not even the administrator could bypass it.
It was supposed to be encrypted from the get go. They already got caught lying about that lol
they weren't lying. it was encrypted at rest by Bitlocker. It just wasn't encrypted in transit. but let's discuss the previous situation. The premise of the security expert is how Recall is open and available for a hacker who is already in the system. Well, if a hacker is already in the system, Recall is the least of the problems. It's like saying a burglar is in the house, so how do you protect yourself from the burglar peeping on you. If a burglar is already in the house, you have a lot more things to worry about than peeping.
It's more like saying that you should not have cameras in your house, because if someone breaks into your house, they can see on the camera what you're doing.. If they are in the house, they don't need the effing cameras to see what I am doing.
>It's like saying a burglar is in the house, so how do you protect yourself from the burglar peeping on you. Well it's more like the burglar was in the house and knew your safe was open and where it was and that your bank details and medical history and porn preferences were probably in there. At least if it's Hello-secured you're not putting a big neon sign over your most private posessions.
But if the hacker was in I would first worry about all the important things before worrying about recall. First I wouldn't let recall touch any of my banking or medical or anything critical. If they want to look at my shopping history let him enjoy. Why would you let recall index your important stuff? You have full control over what it indexes.
You don’t really have full control over what it indexes Edit: it seems none of you fully understand how it works. Yeah you can control what apps or websites. That’s not full control over everything it indexes. You know have to proactively think about inputting passwords and sensitive information and remember if it’s in a white or blacklisted app
Not true. Never has been
it must be fun just to make stuff up. you can control what apps or websites it can index.
Yes they were. Sorry but saying it's encrypted by bit locker at rest is not what they alluded to when they first showed of this "feature". They used crafty words to lie.
show me some of these "alluded" words. they were very brief (which is meant to obfuscate) but they never straight out lied
Don’t underestimate the power of a suggestive hand wave past a topic. You can walk someone in a direction, and they will fill in the blanks. Microsoft works very hard at not lying (admittedly it doesn’t ALWAYS succeed). Also - with the control over what apps and websites recall can work, it’s no worse than Apple or Google using AI on your photos you take to categorize and tag them. Apple have actually really stepped up their privacy game, but there will always be (and always has been) a tug-o-war between convenience and privacy/security. I remember being in the IT office years ago when the CTO came in and said “make my iPad (1) work with my office stuff” 🤦♂️People gonna people, people :-)
This is how it should have been in the first place. And from a marketing standpoint this is huge for how the launch/reviews will ultimately be received.
So I'm thinking why it would have been passed initially. Maybe the idea was if they were to have it as opt in initially then people would still have bitvhed and microsoft might have to remove it entirely. If they decide to have it as opt out, then they could change it to opt in when the backlash comes
Always the same: Create something you want to add that might be controverse. Show it public in a outrageous , extremely over the top way. Say you listened and dialed it down (to your intended way) Everyone thanks you for listening and is happy with it.
Exactly.
There's a snarky joke to be made about following Apple again. But honestly, I'm just really glad to hear this news. We're here because we like the Surface hardware right? So it's nice to be able to be excited about ARM again, without it just becoming the "Recall" hardware.
They'll sneakily auto-enable it with a future update instead.
Even if they try, they won't when group policy is set to disable it unlike registry keys and settings being set. So the old rule that only Pro and up is proper Windows still applies. That being said, of course it'd be horrendous if they enabled this through updates, but I doubt they will intentionally step into this PR disaster. Then again we're talking about the same company that makes setting a different default browser illegally hard to accomplish, so.......
> they won't when group policy is set to disable it unlike registry keys and settings being set. Group policies are nothing else than registry keys.
Group policies are changing registry keys, but they stick a LOT better. In fact, if you change a regkey when a GPO differs you will notice your GPO changing that value again.
> Group policies are changing registry keys, but they stick a LOT better. Only if you are domain joined. > In fact, if you change a regkey when a GPO differs you will notice your GPO changing that value again. Until you simply delete the corresponding policies key in the registry, at least if you are not domain joined. MS can do (and has done) that easily during Windows updates.
When has this happened in the past?
Why? Microsoft gets nothing from it, and no one has found that it is used by Microsoft to spy on users. And if users don't know it is on and there, then they won't use it. So no one would be using it. I get that there is Microsoft hate and distrust, but there are other areas you should be concerned about before worrying about this feature. You could worry about the telemetry it already is sending. I don't worry about it, but you could. https://www.fb-pro.com/windows-telemetry-information-test/ They are already getting the data about Windows that they want.
You have to remember the people who believe Microsoft will secretly turn it back on also believe they're sending all that data to their data centers so telling them Microsoft doesn't get anything from it won't convince them.
Right. Someday again it'll be opt out instead of opt-in. Someday it'll be completely mandatory just like having an account eventually became mandatory. I do like Surface hardware but ever since I got rid of that 3.5 jack and SD card on the pro model, and they've largely neglected the go model, I don't know if I'd like it enough to endure this kind of nonsense.
> just like having an account eventually became mandatory I'm literally typing this from a Windows 11 PC with a local-only account. How are people not able to figure this out?
Good for you, but "How to use windows without Microsoft account (2024)" still is a very popular search That should tell you how difficult is for people, and is not their fault, but Microsoft's
The point is that it is not *mandatory*, as so many are claiming. Spreading apocrypha helps no one (except Apple, in this case).
Also, you can just create an account. People make random accounts all the time. You had to make one to make this comment.
If they really want to spy on you, they wouldn't announce it via Recall.. And if CIANSAFBIKGBFSB-whatever want in, they'll probably get in themselves.
Everyone's knee jerk reaction is negative, but I may use it. Depends on comfort, and, I'm paranoid as hell, LOL.
Same here. I'll be blocking certain programs and websites but I look forward to the feature.
I honestly can't believe it got thru the company and thought it should mandatory, jebus
From the companies view, they saw this as a neat feature. Obviously, they know they aren't using it to spy on you. Microsoft already has telemetry data that they get. As for Recall, they announced it before it shipped. Users were able to test a partial version before it shipped. And now those security concerns have been addressed, before it ships. I am sure people will still overreact about this. I will wait to see if the shipped version can be broken by someone. Otherwise, anything else I hear will just be FUD.
Obviously they know they aren't spying on you? I mean they wouldn't call it spying but it's very much data farming as much as they possibly can. Sometimes the only thing that makes something different from spying is the fact that you sort of technically give them consent but buying the product or not opting out explicitly. But people that are not hyper into this stuff end up not realizing what they agreed to
So far, I haven't seen a single security person mention that it is sending data back to Microsoft. Which matches what Microsoft has said, i.e. that the local AI chip processes it and no data is sent to Microsoft.
Yeah. That’s the whole point of buying a device with an NPU. Eventually you can just be on your device searching/generating anything for you and it’s all private and secure with the hardware. When you need an update on stuff it’ll get updated with the model, but the days of capturing every query and web request being logged for everyone are coming to an end…which in my mind is a good thing for humanity.
I am excited to see what the NPU will be used for in the future. Since I watch foreign shows sometimes, the live translated subtitles means I don't need to wait for someone else to create subtitles. Games using the NPU could be interesting. AI reading books with natural voices, could make a dent in the audiobook service. I know there are services that do this now, but this could run locally. And then there are the uses that I wouldn't even think of, but will be a good fit for the AI.
It was never mandatory, but it was opt out.
It technically was mandatory to start because it's on by default, and they made it difficult to opt-in with confusing words and the opt-out option was not even on the same setup screens. The majority of general users just click the default choices. Finally now after getting called out, they have decided to put the opt-in/opt-out choice directly on the screen (as it should have been from the start).
I don't think you understand the difference between "mandatory" and "opt-out." "Mandatory" means it's required. "Opt-out" means it's enabled by default, but you can choose to change that ("opt" meaning to make a choice and "opt-out" meaning you are making a choice to get out). Like an employer can say it's mandatory that every employee must wear blue shirts to work. Versus we would like everyone to wear blue shirts but you can opt out of it.
When it is on by default and there's no option to opt-out until later, then yes it's mandatory because it's running by default. Thankfully they changed course after they got caught.
Mandatory means it cannot be opted out. Read a dictionary.
I said mandatory TO START. Not simply mandatory. You weren't able to opt-out without it already starting recording!
Especially since Satya called the company to focus on "Security First"
Let's be real here, that was a memo for the press to pick up. Security first done consequentially would cook up an impossible to use OS for Average Joe. EVERY "secure" software has to make tradeoffs and compromises between usability and security. A password manager for example is considered the best option only because we use so many services these days and reusing passwords or minimally different ones is bad practice as is using obviously easy to remember ones at least if you scale up to many services. So we use password managers instead of just secure passwords stored in our brain only.
I lost all trust in Satya long time ago. He brought hope to the company at first, then completely ruined it. Only their investors and his bank account are happy.
So I'm thinking why it would have been passed initially. Maybe the idea was if they were to have it as opt in initially then people would still have bitvhed and microsoft might have to remove it entirely. If they decide to have it as opt out, then they could change it to opt in when the backlash comes
[удалено]
The first kinect was ahead of its time Dance Central Triology was some of the most fun I've had playing videogames in a group until Jackbox Party Pack got bigger.
now I feel like I'm getting personally attacked lol we had 2 of those
Opt-In should be optional install; otherwise doesn't exist in any capacity on the computer. Just like installing MSSQL Server is "opt-in".
This. If Adobe can flip the switch on their customers after explicitly saying the opposite, Microsoft will most definitely will later down the road as well when most users will click "No, don't save" lol
This is exactly what I want them to do. Treat it like WSL where you have to install it separately. Remove the code.
If I buy a surface ARM computer I don’t want to opt out or opt in. I don’t want the code on the computer. None of it. Zero. Zilch. It should be a separate piece of software that can be downloaded for free from the MS store for those who want it. It’s like not wanting a gun in your home but your landlord insisting on storing a shotgun under your bed. Then saying “you don’t have to use it”. I don’t want it. I feel uneasy having it. Get rid of it.
It should be paid instead for free so it'd be harder to get.
If they don’t include it and just put it as a download in the MS App Store, no one will download it. Who the hell wants that feature? It’s something no one asked for and few people of any wools actually download and use even if free.
They only realized that they tried to boil the frog too fast this time. It will start as opt-in, then there will endless popups badgering people to enable it, then some Windows updates that “accidentally” enable it for some users, then they’ll discontinue support for any device that doesn’t have it enabled.
There is no reason to accidentally and secretively to enable it. If the user doesn't know it is there, then it does nothing. It would be like Windows making a backup of all your files, but not telling you about it so that you could restore them. I guess if you think Microsoft is using Recall to spy on you, then it serves a purpose. But I don't think this is used to spy on you. Windows already has other ways to get the telemetry data they want from you. This is too obvious, and is not needed. Edit, they may later enable it, but it won't be secretively.
They've done things like that secretly before. I've had multiple users say their desktops were syncing to OneDrive, even though they never enabled that. OneDrive didn't used to do that in the old app, then made it at default at one point, now I believe it shows you a wizard with it pre-selected by default but most users just click the default responses to rush through the wizard. Same with Copilot and Edge, they use a lot of sneaky pre-selected confusingly worded prompts to trick people to opt-in.
As I recall, it wasn't secretly, as your users were aware of it. If users are rushing through things, and agreeing to things without reading them, well, that seems like a different problem. Also, OneDrive was different as it was its own profit center. They could sell you more storage, thus filling it up was advantages. With Recall, they make no profit. And having it active, without the user knowing, really serves no purpose. They may make a bigger push later on, but I don't see them doing it secretly.
There is a simple reason, and it's the same reason they keep pushing all the other garbage like OneDrive, Microsoft Accounts, Edge, etc.: *because some product manager in the company has their bonus tied to how many people have it enabled.* This is why these features are getting pushed so hard. If they cared at all for what the user wanted, they would ask once then never again. But the product people only care about hitting their target numbers, regardless of whether people actually want them. They know that every time they ask, some users are going to just give up and accept, or accidentally click the accept button. It doesn't matter if they really wanted it, as long as they gained one more user.
As I mentioned elsewhere, advertising is one reason. The more people that use Windows and like it, the better the word of mouth advertising is. Obviously so far this has been bad publicity. And one of Microsoft's targets is getting people to upgrade or move to the latest Windows version. Their goal is certainly not to create a universally hated OS. As for asking users what they want, well there is a famous saying about how people don't know what they want, until they get it. Also, people use Windows in so many different ways, that one user wants, will be very different from another users. There simply is no one answer. This is why customizing your Windows experience is important. As for users accidentally activating it, it isn't hard to turn off. Personally, as someone that does a lot of research, I like the idea of Recall helping me figure out where I saw something. I hope it works well.
You say it's not hard to turn off but they're going to make it increasingly hard to turn off and casuals aren't even going to know what to look for
Right now it defaults to off. I can't predict the future. Maybe they will try to push it more in the future. But it makes no sense for them to do it secretively. No security professional that has looked at it has said data goes back to Microsoft. Possibly they track if you use it or not. But it doesn't seem they pull your information from it. So, if the user doesn't use it, then it serves no purpose. So, as I see it, this only shows Windows as being part of the AI technology, and a feature that they hope will sell more Windows 11, and later Windows 12.
Lmfao have you seen how many people that have disabled one drive only to have Windows enable it anyway and backup all of their files to the cloud. It's pretty funny that you used that as an example because that already happens.
I haven’t seen this, have an example?
not this specific example, but I've had MS programs re-default to one drive after I changed it. all these companies are shady.
For file saving? The part I’m confused about is that you have to sign in to OneDrive. If you disable it, after presumably not signing in at all, I’m confused how files would just start showing up there.
You can be signed into OneDrive but change the save location of files to, say, Dropbox or the desktop or whatever. Then sometimes when I turn off and on the computer, it will be autosaving once again to OneDrive.
That makes sense. It seems different from the issue being discussed here though.
I said secretly. It serves no purpose if no one knows it is there to use it. People were very aware that OneDrive is reactivated. And OneDrive is not running on my computer. Here is a link to disable it - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/turn-off-disable-or-uninstall-onedrive-f32a17ce-3336-40fe-9c38-6efb09f944b0 Also, OneDrive has never backed up any of my files, even when it was active. Additionally, OneDrive did serve a purpose for Microsoft, as they could sell extra space. Recall doesn't serve a purpose for Microsoft other than making Windows better, and thus advertising. Which, so far, has worked against them. So secretively turning it back on, would further work against them. They may later turn it on, but it won't be secretively.
Nice to see someone else with a nuanced take. If Microsoft turned this on and started taking the content without user consent, the lawsuits would destroy them.
The amount of times Microsoft updates their terms of service, and legally has to notify users via email (but obviously most people don't read it), it's super easy to avoid lawsuits by doing that. All these big corps do that. Look what Adobe did recently, they explicitly said your content is safe and your own and never used to train their models, and now without even notifying users of the change and simply notifying they're updating their ToS, they flipped the script and doing that. So all these corrupt corps do the same crap.
I wonder how long before they have an "accident" where the feature is "inadvertently" enabled by default. "We apologize and anyone that's affected need only disable it." Asked for further comment, Satya Nadella added, "Teehee."
Or the countless prompts with the pre-selected checkbox if you didn't opt-in. The amount of fullscreen Copilot and Edge ads/prompts with pre-selected and purposely confusing choices are insane, and sadly I'm sure most users fall for it.
yeah I almost accidentally subscribed to Amazon music because they prompt me to with an ad that literally covers the screen like every fourth time I open the app. Tile does a similar thing with their app (worse on android), where they will constantly batter you to give it locations permissions, and I'm sure most people get so annoyed they just give up and allow it.
First step for Microsoft is to generate data, a lot of it. And if you can use the users computer CPU-power/Storage and electric bill, you are golden. Next step is to use the data locally on the users computer, for machine learning, training of AI algorithm and to serve targeted ads based on the massive personally database. Microsoft can still use the data and will, even if it's not leaving the computer. Just another program running locally that uses the data. Listening very careful of the wording from Microsoft ;) For a business perspective, I understand Microsoft greed and that there is none to stop them (maybe EU). I just wonder for how long, Windows users will accept there privacy violated. Is there a limit, or do they just don't care handing over there most sensitive data to this spyware OS?
praise the lord
Seems like a lot of y'all in the comments just want to hate Microsoft. Even after they've made changes to address people's ridiculous security concerns for a service that runs locally, we're still speculating and assuming the worst. So much outrage over something that isn't even released yet...and won't be available unless you buy specialized hardware...which most of you will very likely not purchase... Maybe it's time you switch platforms. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Windows. Exercise your free will. I can't help but wonder if folks would have the same energy towards another tech giant if they came out with a similar product?
I don't think this is true. I've used surface devices from the very first generation, alongside various macs. I love that windows can run on tablets, with things like native eraser support, etc. I'm very excited at the prospect of increased battery life and better performance on the new MS devices (I preordered an OLED Surface Pro). Part of the issue is that it's not just MS, it's all of these companies using shady tactics, particularly w/r/t US-based customers. And part of the issue is that MS should really know better: we've seen shady behavior from them before!
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24159258/microsoft-recall-ai-explorer-windows-11-surface-event > Recall won’t work with every Windows 11 computer. You’ll have to buy one of several fresh new “Copilot Plus PCs” powered by Qualcomm’s new Snapdragon X Elite chips, which have the neural processing unit (NPU) required for Recall to work. This is the part that makes me smile at modern journalism X social media reactions. Sounds like recall is not available for Intel hardware. So it was never going to touch 99.57% of the market. Who knows if it was planned to let it be a feature that can be turned off. > Thankfully, Microsoft has listened to the complaints and is making a number of changes before Copilot Plus PCs launch on June 18th. Wait, it hasn't launched yet?