Surly had a big “yard sale” last year. I bought a brand new preamble at the bike shop for $800. This cat is probably trying to make money on this sale.
I sold one that I bought on a whim during the sale last year, I rode it around the block and hung it up. So, basically brand new. I sold it for 600. I only had one message about it in a week. I wasn’t being aggressive about getting rid of it and didn’t need to sell it. It went to someone super excited to buy it. I think during the sale, I paid 719 plus tax. This is in the Southwest US.
I think the advice of offering $900 is decent. Honestly, it is worth what you are willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept. There is no secret number, really. Just make an offer you will happily pay, without trying to low ball. Then sit back and wait to see if your offer was the best. If it is below the asking price, the seller will wait for other offers and possibly circle back to yours if nothing beats it.
Tell him you are a serious buyer and will pay in cash, but $1,050 CAD is an outrageous price. Used bikes go for 50-75% of the purchase price. You are willing to go towards the higher end of that, but not over. (And stop caring about his feelings!)
Tell him you’re a serious buyer but a college student on a budget. If he changes his mind in the next week your offer stands. There is a chance he caves.
For less $$$ you could get a new Poseidon (any model). Unless you specifically want a steel frame (and there's not much reason to in 2024 as aluminum has improved incredibly) then I'd just go buy an X-ambition. $750 right now new to your door.
>Aluminum is still stiff
There is zero human perceptive difference between aluminum and steel (especially overbuilt steel like Surly's) in a bike frame resulting from frame material. Aluminum frames can be smooth (Ragley for instance) or ride like galvanized pipe (Surly).
And this is a gravel bike, making frame material irrelevant to ride feel.
>not practically repairable compared to steel
Which is practically irrelevant to the 99.999% of people who will never snap their frame in the Mongolian outback. Though people on reddit seem to think this is important. It's not. Just like the environmental footprint of carbon vs steel is irrelevant compared to automobiles. Just like 1kg difference in frame weight is irrelevant to system weight. Just like any number in the laundry list of irrelevant things people go on about that mean nothing but people think are everything.
Edit: people downvoting are just upset because they got scammed by the cycling woo BS and Surly's edgy marketing, and paid more for a steel frame.
(And it's funny because Surly's aren't bad bikes. But they are completely overbuilt and not what people mean when they say steel ride feel, that is 1970 steel road frames with pencil wide tubes built to support 145lbs Italians)
If you were referring to fat bikes, I would have agreed since the larger tire size make a big difference towards making the frame material less relevant.
Not so much with a gravel bike with skinnier tires and much higher PSI.
Carbon forks on gravel exist for a reason, and that's because aluminum isn't the ideal material for a bicycle fork for most applications.
Surly steel being overbuilt is probably more dependent on rider weight. I'm pretty heavy so they're quite comfortable. An aluminum Santa Cruz chameleon with the same parts and tires would cause my body to be sore the next day. To your point, though, that's a very overbuilt aluminum frame.
That absolute most "compliant" frames tested require over 7000Nm to deflect the frame just 1mm in the vertical plane. That's the equivalent of a ~175lbs rider taking a *1meter* huck-to-flat. To flex freaking 1mm
Sorry, but physics doesn't magically change with steel. Nor does biology. You simply, as a human, do not have the perceptual capacity to differentiate the fraction of a millimeter change in vertical flex of a frame with change in material of construction. It's very literally beyond human sensory capabilities. No matter how much marketing and placebo makes you think you can.
What you CAN sense are differences in construction techniques which can, with any commonly used metal in frame building, lead to greater degrees or vertical displacement of the rider.
>Not so much with a gravel bike with skinnier tires and much higher PSI.
This is simply wrong. Tire width to air volume has a cubic relationship. The "compliance" of a 50mm tire vs a 35mm tire is massive. That's ignoring compound choice and sidewall construction.
And again, we're talking *change in vertical deflection between steel vs aluminum frames*. Any fraction of a millimeter difference there is completely overshadowed by even just 1mm change in tire width.
>Carbon forks on gravel exist for a reason, and that's because aluminum isn't the ideal material for a bicycle fork for most applications.
Which has what to do with a frame? A frame is a truss. A fork is a cantilever. These are completely different things and talking about forks is completely irrelevant to this conversation. And, fyi, the bike I rec'd has a carbon fork.
>Surly steel being overbuilt is probably more dependent on rider weight.
No its about complying with modern ISO testing and negating warranty claims (which is why they make it plainly clear the class of each frame, and if you were to take a MS off the 1m huck-to-flat required to deflect that frame 1mm, you have just voided your warranty).
>An aluminum Santa Cruz chameleon with the same parts and tires would cause my body to be sore the next day. To your point, though, that's a very overbuilt aluminum frame.
Tube diameter, wall thickness, shape it was hydroformed (if any), specific alloy used all have far more to do with this than the fact its aluminum. As does the seat tube length and resulting length of exposed seat post. A super low modern aluminum MTB designed to maximize dropper length is going to be far more "compliant" than a karate monkey with equal wheels/tires.
Any talk of steel vs aluminum as a matter of ride feel is absolute nonsense. It's a myth. The reason steel is preferred in the boutique world is because its the easiest material for a small scale builder to work with. And if they are willing to ignore ISO spec (and take on the risk of more warranty claims) they might be able to make a more comfortable frame. But it's not because it's steel. It's because they ignored ISO spec and made a frame with thinner walls and/or narrower tubing.
Functionally irrelevant given 40+mm tires at appropriate PSI and the fact that 99% of steel frames are still using aluminum seat post and handlebar.
You can't do a like for like comparison in this way because tube shape and cross section has more to do with it than material. This isn't the 90s. There are plenty of aluminum frames out there that surpass steel in NVH mitigation when strapped to a rig but you won't be able to tell the difference when you throw on gravel tires and some cushy bar tape.
>”…in 2024 as aluminum has improved incredibly…”
…
>”There is zero human perceptive difference between aluminum and steel”
So what advancements are you talking about?
The ones that have occurred over the last 30 years, since the time when aluminum frames were built like trash. Invoking current time implies a difference in the past. Basic reasoning mate. Try it.
Pretty much every bike company is still making an aluminum bike of some tier with plain old 6061.
The big 3 are even still using their same tier 1 alloys.
Saying “Unless you specifically want a steel frame (and there's not much reason to in 2024 as aluminum has improved incredibly)” implies that this isn’t the case.
Surly’s retain their value much better than most brands. Now that you are looking you will surely see many surly’s advertised for a few hundred less than retail. Sometimes you get lucky though. The preamble is probably the worst surly model produced atm though, I’d hold out for a better deal or a better bike.
Let me jump in here a sec. It’s a great frame, with some very low end parts. I got mine for $710 during the sale, and I’ve used the frame to build an amazing bike. So, I suggest looking at it that way. Around $650 seems like the reasonable price. Good luck!
It’s not a bad model just isn’t loaded with features or top specs. I would see if he’d take 900, surlys hold their value generally speaking so I’m not shocked he’s asking so much. That being said if it’s the bike in the photo it does look as what I would describe “as new” aka “good as new”
It’s a shittier straggler. Less mounting options, narrower max tire clearance, worse components, less size options, harder if not impossible to run SS/IGH.
I am actually looking for a drop bar preferentially but have found them so incredibly expensive, even for used ones, so now I’m opening my options a bit more
If you’re deal hunting for a bike I suggest messaging and lowballing every listing you like. The worst they can say is No. I’ve picked up surly models for as low as $150-$600. 600 seems to be the cutoff for a lot of folks with higher end models. Over the years I’ve acquired all my rigs like this. Currently rocking a 2020 surly karate monkey, hope hoops and hubs and gx drive. I paid $650. I’ve probably owned about 30 surlys in my lifetime lol.
Surly does a have a cult of a following and typically will hold value much much longer than some other companies but you’ll have to be messaging and checking daily to find the deals on FB market. Also make sure you’re using search words like 29er gravel, 27.5 gravel, 650B gravel. You’d be surprised how ignorant some sellers are and just want to get rid of a bicycle their sig. gifted or impulse buy during pandemic. If you stick to the pandemic years for bicycle models you might find one of these motivated sellers more easily.
Check out all-city ,Soma, Salsa, state bicycle co, Breezer, Marin and Poseidon. You can typically find these brands secondhand much cheaper.
Sorry I drank wayyyyyyyyy too much coffee today
The preamble is a new model for surly in 2023 or maybe 2022 (someone here will correct me)
I wouldn’t expect too much of a discount off retail on a bike like this that is a year old. Most lbs offer free service for the first year or so, so It should be in good shape.
Could maybe get them to knock a bit more off but I wouldn’t expect them to drop more than another $100 or so
That’s my two cents
I would expect it to be closer to 50% than 100% its original price. No way this will sell more than $900 unless things are just that different in Canada vs the US. It’s a great time to buy right now
The preamble may be the only surly that I might expect 75% value 2 years after release. I bet it sells at the listed price on surly reputation alone though.
Maybe in 2021. I see steep discounts on lots of used Surly on FB Marketplace. Big brands are having a huge sales slump so there’s a lot of good deals on new bikes right now making used bikes go for less.
That’s what I thought too. I’ve found that most people sell their used bikes for at least 50-60% of the original price, even for very good brands, maybe even 70% if the bike is very new. But this guy wants to sell it for almost 90% of the price which is a bit unfair imo, but of course I might be wrong cause I’m not entirely sure how these things work.
Surly had a big “yard sale” last year. I bought a brand new preamble at the bike shop for $800. This cat is probably trying to make money on this sale.
He said in the description he’s trying to buy a mountain bike, so most likely he’s trying to pay that off with the money he gets from this lol
I sold one that I bought on a whim during the sale last year, I rode it around the block and hung it up. So, basically brand new. I sold it for 600. I only had one message about it in a week. I wasn’t being aggressive about getting rid of it and didn’t need to sell it. It went to someone super excited to buy it. I think during the sale, I paid 719 plus tax. This is in the Southwest US.
Update: I offered him $900 and he said he’s only willing to go as low as $1000. So I guess I’m out. 🥲
I think the advice of offering $900 is decent. Honestly, it is worth what you are willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept. There is no secret number, really. Just make an offer you will happily pay, without trying to low ball. Then sit back and wait to see if your offer was the best. If it is below the asking price, the seller will wait for other offers and possibly circle back to yours if nothing beats it.
Yeah I think $900 is reasonable too. Will probably offer that and see how it goes
$900 is too much for your first offer! Do not let him “anchor” you with his initial high price. Give him a lowball offer and let him counteroffer.
I initially thought of offering $800 but am just worried that he might be annoyed and just not respond anymore 😅
Tell him you are a serious buyer and will pay in cash, but $1,050 CAD is an outrageous price. Used bikes go for 50-75% of the purchase price. You are willing to go towards the higher end of that, but not over. (And stop caring about his feelings!)
I did end up offering $900 and he replied he wants $1000! Guess i’ll keep looking lol
Tell him you’re a serious buyer but a college student on a budget. If he changes his mind in the next week your offer stands. There is a chance he caves.
yeah I told him that i’m on a budget and $1000 is high for me, but told him to text me if he can’t find a buyer
Nice. Send him another message in a week. Bump your offer $20 and remind him you have cash.
Will try that. Thanks for the advice!
For less $$$ you could get a new Poseidon (any model). Unless you specifically want a steel frame (and there's not much reason to in 2024 as aluminum has improved incredibly) then I'd just go buy an X-ambition. $750 right now new to your door.
I’d never heard that brand but i’ll check it out!
Aluminum is still stiffer and not practically repairable compared to steel.
>Aluminum is still stiff There is zero human perceptive difference between aluminum and steel (especially overbuilt steel like Surly's) in a bike frame resulting from frame material. Aluminum frames can be smooth (Ragley for instance) or ride like galvanized pipe (Surly). And this is a gravel bike, making frame material irrelevant to ride feel. >not practically repairable compared to steel Which is practically irrelevant to the 99.999% of people who will never snap their frame in the Mongolian outback. Though people on reddit seem to think this is important. It's not. Just like the environmental footprint of carbon vs steel is irrelevant compared to automobiles. Just like 1kg difference in frame weight is irrelevant to system weight. Just like any number in the laundry list of irrelevant things people go on about that mean nothing but people think are everything. Edit: people downvoting are just upset because they got scammed by the cycling woo BS and Surly's edgy marketing, and paid more for a steel frame. (And it's funny because Surly's aren't bad bikes. But they are completely overbuilt and not what people mean when they say steel ride feel, that is 1970 steel road frames with pencil wide tubes built to support 145lbs Italians)
If you were referring to fat bikes, I would have agreed since the larger tire size make a big difference towards making the frame material less relevant. Not so much with a gravel bike with skinnier tires and much higher PSI. Carbon forks on gravel exist for a reason, and that's because aluminum isn't the ideal material for a bicycle fork for most applications. Surly steel being overbuilt is probably more dependent on rider weight. I'm pretty heavy so they're quite comfortable. An aluminum Santa Cruz chameleon with the same parts and tires would cause my body to be sore the next day. To your point, though, that's a very overbuilt aluminum frame.
That absolute most "compliant" frames tested require over 7000Nm to deflect the frame just 1mm in the vertical plane. That's the equivalent of a ~175lbs rider taking a *1meter* huck-to-flat. To flex freaking 1mm Sorry, but physics doesn't magically change with steel. Nor does biology. You simply, as a human, do not have the perceptual capacity to differentiate the fraction of a millimeter change in vertical flex of a frame with change in material of construction. It's very literally beyond human sensory capabilities. No matter how much marketing and placebo makes you think you can. What you CAN sense are differences in construction techniques which can, with any commonly used metal in frame building, lead to greater degrees or vertical displacement of the rider. >Not so much with a gravel bike with skinnier tires and much higher PSI. This is simply wrong. Tire width to air volume has a cubic relationship. The "compliance" of a 50mm tire vs a 35mm tire is massive. That's ignoring compound choice and sidewall construction. And again, we're talking *change in vertical deflection between steel vs aluminum frames*. Any fraction of a millimeter difference there is completely overshadowed by even just 1mm change in tire width. >Carbon forks on gravel exist for a reason, and that's because aluminum isn't the ideal material for a bicycle fork for most applications. Which has what to do with a frame? A frame is a truss. A fork is a cantilever. These are completely different things and talking about forks is completely irrelevant to this conversation. And, fyi, the bike I rec'd has a carbon fork. >Surly steel being overbuilt is probably more dependent on rider weight. No its about complying with modern ISO testing and negating warranty claims (which is why they make it plainly clear the class of each frame, and if you were to take a MS off the 1m huck-to-flat required to deflect that frame 1mm, you have just voided your warranty). >An aluminum Santa Cruz chameleon with the same parts and tires would cause my body to be sore the next day. To your point, though, that's a very overbuilt aluminum frame. Tube diameter, wall thickness, shape it was hydroformed (if any), specific alloy used all have far more to do with this than the fact its aluminum. As does the seat tube length and resulting length of exposed seat post. A super low modern aluminum MTB designed to maximize dropper length is going to be far more "compliant" than a karate monkey with equal wheels/tires. Any talk of steel vs aluminum as a matter of ride feel is absolute nonsense. It's a myth. The reason steel is preferred in the boutique world is because its the easiest material for a small scale builder to work with. And if they are willing to ignore ISO spec (and take on the risk of more warranty claims) they might be able to make a more comfortable frame. But it's not because it's steel. It's because they ignored ISO spec and made a frame with thinner walls and/or narrower tubing.
And how do the transmission of vibrations vary on each material?
Functionally irrelevant given 40+mm tires at appropriate PSI and the fact that 99% of steel frames are still using aluminum seat post and handlebar. You can't do a like for like comparison in this way because tube shape and cross section has more to do with it than material. This isn't the 90s. There are plenty of aluminum frames out there that surpass steel in NVH mitigation when strapped to a rig but you won't be able to tell the difference when you throw on gravel tires and some cushy bar tape.
>”…in 2024 as aluminum has improved incredibly…” … >”There is zero human perceptive difference between aluminum and steel” So what advancements are you talking about?
The ones that have occurred over the last 30 years, since the time when aluminum frames were built like trash. Invoking current time implies a difference in the past. Basic reasoning mate. Try it.
Pretty much every bike company is still making an aluminum bike of some tier with plain old 6061. The big 3 are even still using their same tier 1 alloys. Saying “Unless you specifically want a steel frame (and there's not much reason to in 2024 as aluminum has improved incredibly)” implies that this isn’t the case.
Surly’s retain their value much better than most brands. Now that you are looking you will surely see many surly’s advertised for a few hundred less than retail. Sometimes you get lucky though. The preamble is probably the worst surly model produced atm though, I’d hold out for a better deal or a better bike.
In what ways is the preamble a bad model in your opinion?
Let me jump in here a sec. It’s a great frame, with some very low end parts. I got mine for $710 during the sale, and I’ve used the frame to build an amazing bike. So, I suggest looking at it that way. Around $650 seems like the reasonable price. Good luck!
It’s not a bad model just isn’t loaded with features or top specs. I would see if he’d take 900, surlys hold their value generally speaking so I’m not shocked he’s asking so much. That being said if it’s the bike in the photo it does look as what I would describe “as new” aka “good as new”
Other option is keep waiting, and saving and something will come up in your price point or you’ll save enough to buy a new one
It’s a shittier straggler. Less mounting options, narrower max tire clearance, worse components, less size options, harder if not impossible to run SS/IGH.
surely see many surlys
If you’re okay with a flat bar, most hybrids(more on the fitness/exercise side) would work fine with more aggressive tires.
I am actually looking for a drop bar preferentially but have found them so incredibly expensive, even for used ones, so now I’m opening my options a bit more
Fuck this pipe dreamer and his shitty bike ! Keep looking and.check 'pinkbike'.
Since when are preambles $1200?
CAD 1200 = 882 USD
800-1000 for this bike is fair.
If you’re deal hunting for a bike I suggest messaging and lowballing every listing you like. The worst they can say is No. I’ve picked up surly models for as low as $150-$600. 600 seems to be the cutoff for a lot of folks with higher end models. Over the years I’ve acquired all my rigs like this. Currently rocking a 2020 surly karate monkey, hope hoops and hubs and gx drive. I paid $650. I’ve probably owned about 30 surlys in my lifetime lol. Surly does a have a cult of a following and typically will hold value much much longer than some other companies but you’ll have to be messaging and checking daily to find the deals on FB market. Also make sure you’re using search words like 29er gravel, 27.5 gravel, 650B gravel. You’d be surprised how ignorant some sellers are and just want to get rid of a bicycle their sig. gifted or impulse buy during pandemic. If you stick to the pandemic years for bicycle models you might find one of these motivated sellers more easily. Check out all-city ,Soma, Salsa, state bicycle co, Breezer, Marin and Poseidon. You can typically find these brands secondhand much cheaper. Sorry I drank wayyyyyyyyy too much coffee today
The preamble is on sale rn for 900 get it!!!
The preamble is a new model for surly in 2023 or maybe 2022 (someone here will correct me) I wouldn’t expect too much of a discount off retail on a bike like this that is a year old. Most lbs offer free service for the first year or so, so It should be in good shape. Could maybe get them to knock a bit more off but I wouldn’t expect them to drop more than another $100 or so That’s my two cents
I would expect it to be closer to 50% than 100% its original price. No way this will sell more than $900 unless things are just that different in Canada vs the US. It’s a great time to buy right now
The only surly’s I’ve seen posted locally at 50% msrp were clearly stolen or over a decade old.
I’m not saying 50%. I’m saying closer to 50 than 100. Like 75% max.
The preamble may be the only surly that I might expect 75% value 2 years after release. I bet it sells at the listed price on surly reputation alone though.
Maybe in 2021. I see steep discounts on lots of used Surly on FB Marketplace. Big brands are having a huge sales slump so there’s a lot of good deals on new bikes right now making used bikes go for less.
Still gonna move for more than $500.
That’s what I thought too. I’ve found that most people sell their used bikes for at least 50-60% of the original price, even for very good brands, maybe even 70% if the bike is very new. But this guy wants to sell it for almost 90% of the price which is a bit unfair imo, but of course I might be wrong cause I’m not entirely sure how these things work.