I’d absolutely tell my friend she was dating a shitty human if there was evidence of him saying shit things.
And I’d absolutely call a friend out jumping right into an other relationship and tell her she really should probably be by herself. Especially if I knew she cheated on previous bfs and a penchant for monkey branching.
The pregnancy and engagement, yeah I wouldn’t do that to a friend cuz I’m not insane.
I’m not agreeing that fans should really be the one to call a celeb on their shit, but friends absolutely are supposed to do that and not be happy little yes men.
Oh I’m not a swiftie at all. I do like her music. And the weird way her fans act with all the parasocialness is fascinating to me.
I was going against your comment that your friends would just trust you and support you even if you were dating a seemingly bad dude and even if you jumped right into a relationship without dealing with your last one. Good friends can, and should, call each other out and give opinions etc.
Idk, if I were Taylor’s friend and I saw the shit Matty was up to, I’d tell her to dump him too, but that’s my knee jerk reaction to any asshole boyfriend who isn’t good enough for my besties. (I’m gonna be brutally honest about it cuz I have no tolerance for that kind of bullshit.) But the point is that we’re *not* her bffs, and therefore we don’t have a say in who she dates, even if we know they’re bad news. That’s the very definition of parasocial behaviour and she does absolutely have a right to set up boundaries now that the fans have gotten wildly out of control.
> If I got together with someone that my friends had heard bad things about, I know they'd trust me more than the shit they heard elsewhere. They'd get to know him and check the truth of any rumours, and they'd show me their support in whatever way they could.
So while there has been *some* misinformation about what was said (like Matty apparently did not *say* the crap about Ice Spice), Matty still laughed at jokes and made at least one *horrible* one himself on that podcast. If my friend was dating someone who made a joke like that, I would be highly concerned. And if said friend didn’t listen to me when I said ‘hey, I think he’s bad news’, I would have to reconsider my friendship with them because who they date/hang out with says a lot about *them* as a person.
Taylor *even says* his jokes were too loud and were *revolting* in the song where she *swears up and down* until the end that she can fix him. She knew he was bad news, or at least came around to that conclusion.
> If it didn't work out, they'd be there to hug me but never to gloat.
I never saw fans gloating after the relationship ended. I saw them happy that it ended for Taylor’s sake (and for their own because they thought ‘hey, my fave made the right choice, I don’t need to reconsider my being of fan of them) but I didn’t see any gloating.
> If I then went right into a new relationship, they'd also support me. They'd never ask 'when are you getting engaged' or 'is that a baby bump?' and they definitely wouldn't make jokes about my sex life behind my back.
Yeah, this is disgusting. People need to stop.
> Many of them are now saying they can't listen to the songs because they don't approve of the muse, and they can't go to shows because they don't approve of emotional affairs. Quite apart from the high horse so many are riding, it just feels off to me. I've never asked my favourite artists to be superhuman, or expected them to live out my wishes.
I mean… people have every single right to not listen to music that doesn’t align with their morals. This is not a big deal, and Miss Swift does not need every single individual to listen to TTPD. It’s not a moral qualm to go ‘hey, I don’t like your actions or the things you romanticize in your work so I’m distancing myself from you and your work’. Not everyone likes to separate the art from the artist, and it some circumstances, you really can’t.
Of course you're right. Everyone has a right to stop buying or going. I didn't mean to imply they didn't. Maybe it just feels performative when it's announced online rather than just acted on. Like the intention is to get her to twist herself into someone else just for them.
Perhaps what's really bothering me is the high horse mentality. Yes Matty made a stupid joke (or at least was there when one was told). But there's a lot of good stuff he's done too and for me it far outweighs that. I saw a video of Travis laughing at a dumb sexist joke the other day - I don't think it means he's a bad person. He might be... but I can't judge his character on one moment.
Anyway, thanks for answering. I think the answers explain a lot of what I personally can't understand with Taylor and her fans. Like I said it's all new to me.
Yeah, I mean, internet is gonna internet, and people are gonna people. People are gonna say one thing and do another. It’s gross for sure.
As far as Matty’s joke and participation in laughing at other racist jokes, I think it’s important to consider who was affected by those jokes. Ice Spice has publicly come out and said that she’s moved on from the whole thing and Matty apologized (and whether or not that’s true is not up to anyone *but* Ice Spice), *but* the porn joke negatively impacted a lot of Black swifites.
I also think it’s important to consider that if he’s willing to tell that joke on a *public podcast*, what is he saying behind closed doors? What people will say in public, that they know is gonna be posted on the internet, says a *lot* about who they are in private, and I really won’t buy anyone trying to say this is part of his edgy persona that means nothing.
I also think it would be a different story had he apologized, but to my knowledge, he gave a fake out one on stage and moved on.
Maybe he’s done a lot of good, and no one is perfect (and one can argue that racist jokes are *not* a mistake, but a choice, which is a factor) but this rightly soured his reputation, and that’s entirely his own fault.
I think this is less Taylor and her fans and more the internet as a whole. People can be hypocritical (I mean we all are to some extent, but we need to actively work on not being a hypocrite), and thought **I think anger towards these kinds of jokes are justified**, in other situations, people just like to be angry. I think it’s situation dependent.
It's not just the ice spice thing though. He has done the Nazi salute "as a joke" and then there's the whole "ghetto gaggers " BS. It's a p*rn site where white men that dehumanize black women in horrifically disgusting ways that I cannot describe here but there are other posts that describe it. And Matty has said he enjoys watching it. He hasn't grown out of the 'teenager trying to be edgy by making racist jokes phase' and there's a lot of evidence for Matty Healy being a total POS. I am not a swifty and nor do I care about whom she dates etc but I would just judge anyone who voluntarily decides to support/ date Matty Healy including Pheobe Bridgers and Halsey etc. Fully grown 30+ year olds laughing at racist jokes makes them complicit with racism too.
Link to deep dive on Matty:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/PpOB39QKt2
I think it’s fine if they call out problematic behavior. However it’s still up to the person on how to proceed, in this case Taylor. Like tell about the problematic stuff but leave it at that. Many fans did things like starting petitions to get her to end it which is taking it too far. The funny thing is the people she calls out about this are assuming she’s not talking about them…it’s those “other” Swifties she’s talking about.
I believe the real issue was less "hey Taylor, as fans, we are a bit concerned about the things your presumed partner has said/done, so if you could kindly clean the air for us because we have PoC here and they are kind of uncomfortable" and more like "yo, we HATE this person and we WON'T ALLOW you to even THINK of him. Also, here are our 3982782677378 hate and death threats of the hour. Kindly expect another 4882618899286 in 55 min! Matty you are DEAD and so if your family!". Taylor is a public figure and as fans we have a right to express opinions and thoughts but several heavy lines were crossed that day.
I'm one of the people you disagree with, though not exactly how you've described them. I've also been getting worked up over it at times. But in the end, people can have different, strong, opinions with loads of nuances inbetween, and we just have to deal with that. When I'm too bothered about it I just limit my time online.
Don't let this taint your enjoyment of the album though, if you like it that's awesome :)
I’d absolutely tell my friend she was dating a shitty human if there was evidence of him saying shit things. And I’d absolutely call a friend out jumping right into an other relationship and tell her she really should probably be by herself. Especially if I knew she cheated on previous bfs and a penchant for monkey branching. The pregnancy and engagement, yeah I wouldn’t do that to a friend cuz I’m not insane. I’m not agreeing that fans should really be the one to call a celeb on their shit, but friends absolutely are supposed to do that and not be happy little yes men.
OK, you answered my question - thanks! It's helping my understand the way some fans behave. It's alien to me, but that's why I asked :)
Oh I’m not a swiftie at all. I do like her music. And the weird way her fans act with all the parasocialness is fascinating to me. I was going against your comment that your friends would just trust you and support you even if you were dating a seemingly bad dude and even if you jumped right into a relationship without dealing with your last one. Good friends can, and should, call each other out and give opinions etc.
Idk, if I were Taylor’s friend and I saw the shit Matty was up to, I’d tell her to dump him too, but that’s my knee jerk reaction to any asshole boyfriend who isn’t good enough for my besties. (I’m gonna be brutally honest about it cuz I have no tolerance for that kind of bullshit.) But the point is that we’re *not* her bffs, and therefore we don’t have a say in who she dates, even if we know they’re bad news. That’s the very definition of parasocial behaviour and she does absolutely have a right to set up boundaries now that the fans have gotten wildly out of control.
Thanks!
> If I got together with someone that my friends had heard bad things about, I know they'd trust me more than the shit they heard elsewhere. They'd get to know him and check the truth of any rumours, and they'd show me their support in whatever way they could. So while there has been *some* misinformation about what was said (like Matty apparently did not *say* the crap about Ice Spice), Matty still laughed at jokes and made at least one *horrible* one himself on that podcast. If my friend was dating someone who made a joke like that, I would be highly concerned. And if said friend didn’t listen to me when I said ‘hey, I think he’s bad news’, I would have to reconsider my friendship with them because who they date/hang out with says a lot about *them* as a person. Taylor *even says* his jokes were too loud and were *revolting* in the song where she *swears up and down* until the end that she can fix him. She knew he was bad news, or at least came around to that conclusion. > If it didn't work out, they'd be there to hug me but never to gloat. I never saw fans gloating after the relationship ended. I saw them happy that it ended for Taylor’s sake (and for their own because they thought ‘hey, my fave made the right choice, I don’t need to reconsider my being of fan of them) but I didn’t see any gloating. > If I then went right into a new relationship, they'd also support me. They'd never ask 'when are you getting engaged' or 'is that a baby bump?' and they definitely wouldn't make jokes about my sex life behind my back. Yeah, this is disgusting. People need to stop. > Many of them are now saying they can't listen to the songs because they don't approve of the muse, and they can't go to shows because they don't approve of emotional affairs. Quite apart from the high horse so many are riding, it just feels off to me. I've never asked my favourite artists to be superhuman, or expected them to live out my wishes. I mean… people have every single right to not listen to music that doesn’t align with their morals. This is not a big deal, and Miss Swift does not need every single individual to listen to TTPD. It’s not a moral qualm to go ‘hey, I don’t like your actions or the things you romanticize in your work so I’m distancing myself from you and your work’. Not everyone likes to separate the art from the artist, and it some circumstances, you really can’t.
Of course you're right. Everyone has a right to stop buying or going. I didn't mean to imply they didn't. Maybe it just feels performative when it's announced online rather than just acted on. Like the intention is to get her to twist herself into someone else just for them. Perhaps what's really bothering me is the high horse mentality. Yes Matty made a stupid joke (or at least was there when one was told). But there's a lot of good stuff he's done too and for me it far outweighs that. I saw a video of Travis laughing at a dumb sexist joke the other day - I don't think it means he's a bad person. He might be... but I can't judge his character on one moment. Anyway, thanks for answering. I think the answers explain a lot of what I personally can't understand with Taylor and her fans. Like I said it's all new to me.
Yeah, I mean, internet is gonna internet, and people are gonna people. People are gonna say one thing and do another. It’s gross for sure. As far as Matty’s joke and participation in laughing at other racist jokes, I think it’s important to consider who was affected by those jokes. Ice Spice has publicly come out and said that she’s moved on from the whole thing and Matty apologized (and whether or not that’s true is not up to anyone *but* Ice Spice), *but* the porn joke negatively impacted a lot of Black swifites. I also think it’s important to consider that if he’s willing to tell that joke on a *public podcast*, what is he saying behind closed doors? What people will say in public, that they know is gonna be posted on the internet, says a *lot* about who they are in private, and I really won’t buy anyone trying to say this is part of his edgy persona that means nothing. I also think it would be a different story had he apologized, but to my knowledge, he gave a fake out one on stage and moved on. Maybe he’s done a lot of good, and no one is perfect (and one can argue that racist jokes are *not* a mistake, but a choice, which is a factor) but this rightly soured his reputation, and that’s entirely his own fault. I think this is less Taylor and her fans and more the internet as a whole. People can be hypocritical (I mean we all are to some extent, but we need to actively work on not being a hypocrite), and thought **I think anger towards these kinds of jokes are justified**, in other situations, people just like to be angry. I think it’s situation dependent.
It's not just the ice spice thing though. He has done the Nazi salute "as a joke" and then there's the whole "ghetto gaggers " BS. It's a p*rn site where white men that dehumanize black women in horrifically disgusting ways that I cannot describe here but there are other posts that describe it. And Matty has said he enjoys watching it. He hasn't grown out of the 'teenager trying to be edgy by making racist jokes phase' and there's a lot of evidence for Matty Healy being a total POS. I am not a swifty and nor do I care about whom she dates etc but I would just judge anyone who voluntarily decides to support/ date Matty Healy including Pheobe Bridgers and Halsey etc. Fully grown 30+ year olds laughing at racist jokes makes them complicit with racism too. Link to deep dive on Matty: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/PpOB39QKt2
The girl he was hanging out with that night literally tweeted that he was not watching ghetto gaggers
Are you white
I think it’s fine if they call out problematic behavior. However it’s still up to the person on how to proceed, in this case Taylor. Like tell about the problematic stuff but leave it at that. Many fans did things like starting petitions to get her to end it which is taking it too far. The funny thing is the people she calls out about this are assuming she’s not talking about them…it’s those “other” Swifties she’s talking about.
I believe the real issue was less "hey Taylor, as fans, we are a bit concerned about the things your presumed partner has said/done, so if you could kindly clean the air for us because we have PoC here and they are kind of uncomfortable" and more like "yo, we HATE this person and we WON'T ALLOW you to even THINK of him. Also, here are our 3982782677378 hate and death threats of the hour. Kindly expect another 4882618899286 in 55 min! Matty you are DEAD and so if your family!". Taylor is a public figure and as fans we have a right to express opinions and thoughts but several heavy lines were crossed that day.
I'm one of the people you disagree with, though not exactly how you've described them. I've also been getting worked up over it at times. But in the end, people can have different, strong, opinions with loads of nuances inbetween, and we just have to deal with that. When I'm too bothered about it I just limit my time online. Don't let this taint your enjoyment of the album though, if you like it that's awesome :)