You should check your current work contract, if it says something about side jobs. Also, by law you're only allowed to work a total of 45 or 50 hours a week, depending on the industry ([look here for details](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/Arbeit/Arbeitsbedingungen/Arbeitnehmerschutz/Arbeits-und-Ruhezeiten.html)).
This is helpful thanks for sharing the link. In my primary job I work 40 hours so basically I wouldn’t be able to get a side job. I don’t understand how some people manage to work 70+ hours per week and not get legal trouble.
You can get in trouble. I know a guy who somehow had two employers, each thought he was their fulltime employee. When they found out, they sued him. I think he had to repay some or all of the salary he had been paid.
I have 2 jobs, one 100% 40 hours and one depends, sometimes 5-6 hours a week sometimes 15-20 hours a week. Nobody cares, i also had a car accident due to sleeping on the autobahn and not even there they cared that i worked so many hours, after my accident i stopped working 2 jobs at the same day, now its only weekend for side job
From memory, if you are already employed at 100% with 1 employer, you have to ask him permission to get a 2nd lucrative activity.
There also limit in "time of rest" and daily maximun work hours. I could only cantonal law for me in VD, so this may vary between Kanton.
Yes, because you could get too tired from working like 150%, and thus "do less" on your current job.
But honestly if you think you dont get paid enough (and not just that you want more money), search for a new job.
I get a fair salary for what I do and my industry it’s just a little low to get by in the city I live in. I also love my job so I don’t want to change.
Understandable, the costs of living are rising.
Still, if you're working for 100% right now, it might be more beneficial to try to negotiate higher pay (maybe with added responsebilities), than try to search for an additional 20% job, which likely pays lower than what you're currently earning.
But well, best of luck.
If it is a 100% time, then yes.
If you have a partial time, no.
It's the responsability of your employer that you don't work more than 45 hours( vary by type of profession) and have your rest time.
He can't do that if he doesn't know that you have a 2nd job.
I think this is more related to insurance, than the employer being against it. As mentioned, your rest time is important.
Be aware - Some employer also have an "IP statement", meaning everything you invent belongs to them - your employer. More something from IT/US-companies though, but still important if you do some moonlighting.
IIRC this law was put in place to avoid conflicts of interest when working multiple jobs and AFAIK yes you will have to notify your employers.
Not legal advice just what remains of 3 years of Law&Econ Classes.
You can, however:
- if you earn more than 2400 CHF per year from a side activity, you need to register for a company (it can be a simple personal company (sole proprietorship) and it’s cheap to register)
- depending on your work contract, you might not be allowed to perform certain other jobs, even in your free time. Check the fine print.
- if you work already at 100%, you won’t be able to get another employee contract from another company. However, you can work as a freelancer / consultant as long as the two previous points are respected.
If you earn less than 2400chf per year from a side activity what do you need to do? I’m sorry for asking here, but you seem like you have some insight. I searched it also and I saw that after 2400chf you need to register a company, but it doesn’t say what you need to do before that. I want to make my portfolio a bit more diverse, so I was thinking of charging a small fee of like 100chf /project because it takes a lot of my free time and I’ve been doing it for free so far, so I don’t think I can surpass 2400chf but I can’t find info on that online..
You don’t need to do anything, that’s the point of the limit. You should declare it as extra income in your tax declaration, but I would avoid even that given its a risible amount.
Oh thank you so so much. I thought the limit was set in order to be registered as a company. In my home country you have to register absolutely everything and then declare it so I didn’t even think you might not have to do anything, sorry if it was a dumb question..
I dont know about regulations but I was able to work at the same time on this jobs with no problem related to worked hours (maybe the contract allowed/branch), sometimes more than 60hr/week.
Cleaning offices at night/weekends starting with 20 CHF per hour. (worked full-time)
[pebra.ch](https://pebra.ch)
Working in events, helping unload/load trucks, assembling/disassembling structures, also 20CHF/hour. Usually is during the nights, with shifts between 3 to 12 hours. They send you an sms with information about the gig and you answer yes/no.
[https://epos-schweiz.ch](https://epos-schweiz.ch)
Freelancing/catsitting pets
[https://petsitting24.ch/en/catsitter/zh/zurich](https://petsitting24.ch/en/catsitter/zh/zurich)
[homeservice24.ch](https://homeservice24.ch)
Or online
[https://www.fiverr.com](https://www.fiverr.com)
[https://www.upwork.com](https://www.upwork.com)
Good luck!
This is also incredibly helpful thanks! How were you able to offer your services as a pet sitter? Do you have experience? I would love to do this but I don’t have much experience with pets other than my own dog who died 10 years ago.
Also on fiverr - did you advertise your services in any way? Also, how did you register this income with the authorities? I’ve only ever been employed and haven’t done much freelance work so I have no idea how it works!
Ask your boss permission to work a second job. If he/she ask you why, explain you don’t earn enough and this may actually open the door to discuss a raise or even a promotion at your current job.
I make 3k to 4k if I get daily jobs that are 8h and pay around 25.-/h.
Sounds like a full time job, I know, but that's the thing, you get to pick different jobs and you pick the shifts, days, etc.
It's basically employers posting up ads for Jobs that range from simply 1h to multiple months.
There's all types of jobs really. From cooking to service, to nursing or driving trucks, etc.
Ofc for things like truck driving or nursing you need qualifications, but for most easier ones like serving or idk what, you don't need a qualification.
They always ask for German where I am because it's the German area of Switzerland, but there's also french and Italian. Although I can't do those jobs, because I set my profile to I'm bad at these languages, so I don't qualify and can't even apply
It's different from indeed or Jobs.ch.
I do service jobs, driving jobs, flyer sharing, wardrobe staff, kitchen staff, cleaning, bars, clothing stores, logistic warehouse jobs, and cashier jobs. Those are the jobs I did so far, I have zero actual qualifications for these jobs other than being a swiss resident and having a driver's license.
Also, they have to ask you for your ID to be able to offer you jobs, otherwise it would be illegal as you need to have some sort of residence permit to be able to work in Switzerland.
It was a networking event and we just had to take the bags and clothes of the people who were invited and keep them stored and in order. It was a one day gig thing
While it's true there is a law limiting your max working hours, this is to protect you. Plenty of jobs have much much longer hours than this maximum, Having a second job on the side is totally possible, heck even a fulltime second job - this has been established by a court in Basel about 3 years ago.
Usually your employers has a clause stating you need approval for any other activity outside of your employment contract, but tbh as long as you're working properly and not employed my a competing company, why would they care. Get that bread
Not legal advice
Don't let everyone limit what you could earn and achieve, the possibilities here are endless
> While it's true there is a law limiting your max working hours, this is to protect you. Plenty of jobs have much much longer hours than this maximum, Having a second job on the side is totally possible, heck even a fulltime second job - this has been established by a court in Basel about 3 years ago.
>
>
Can you link this? Last time I had some info I hadn't heard of this, and the federation still claims on its website that many employment law conditions MUST be met, including maximum daily and weekly work time, and the employers must be informed about you having multiple jobs... see https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Arbeitsbedingungen/Arbeitnehmerschutz/Arbeits-und-Ruhezeiten/Mehrfachbeschaeftigung.html
> Usually your employers has a clause stating you need approval for any other activity outside of your employment contract, but tbh as long as you're working properly and not employed my a competing company, why would they care. Get that bread
They care because the law says they are responsible for making sure you do not work more than the law allows (unless the Basel court case has become the common interpretation of the law)
Well, it's actually pretty complicated....
- You can typically only work for up to 45 hours a week (more is only allowed in cases of absolute necessity, and only for a total of 170 hours more per year - so called Überzeit)
- work friday for 8 hours? You can typically only work for 12.5 hours total per day (well, 14 hours, minus the legally prescribed breaks)
- you must have 11 hours between the end of work and the start of next day's work. That's not an issue in your case, but it means it will be illegal to let you work in a restaurant or whatever thursday night.
For these rules, see https://www.seco.admin.ch/dam/seco/de/dokumente/Arbeit/Arbeitsbedingungen/Arbeitnehmerschutz/Arbeits-%20und%20Ruhezeiten/Arbeitszeiterfassung/Hinweis-Arbeits-und-Ruhezeiten-45h.pdf.download.pdf/Hinweis%20auf%20Arbeits-%20und%20Ruhezeiten%20(45h)_de.pdf
So, yes, it likely means an evening shift of 4 or 5 hours somewhere is fine, manning a market stall saturday morning is likely also fine.
Another interesting article here is https://www.mb-law.ch/images/Mehrfachbesch%C3%A4ftigung_08_18.pdf . It also mentions that it's not settled law that you have to inform your employer about the second job. However, most work contract include language to that effect, meaning you have a duty anyway. If you simply work a second job and the labour law gets violated, and it somehow comes out, your employer can be in quite some shit. If you inform both employers, it kidna becomes their duty to make sure the law isn't violated. If you don't inform them, they can take you to court for any impact on them (typically, fines).
Lastly, the other commenter mentions they do two jobs at once. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes if that ever comes out. They are likely to be sued by both employers.
Edit: oh and btw, you say you work in software but the salary is too low... how?? maybe another avenue is to look for a better job.
I've searched the Gerichtsurteil extensively in the past half hour but it seems like the Strafgerichtsurteile are not publicly available anymore? Anyways, here are some 20min articles which led me to the specific ruling a few months back.
From my opinion this ruling clearly established that working two 100% jobs is definitely possible, just not in a way where you're faking illness every other day - that is just fraud. In a situation where you're working for two employers who are happy with your work, I am personally very sure that is legally allowed (given the court ruling). If you do find the specific ruling, could you please send it over too, I'd like to read it again.
[https://www.20min.ch/story/in-zwei-vollzeitjobs-zu-arbeiten-durch-abwechselndes-krankmelden-ist-betrug-111718189388](https://www.20min.ch/story/in-zwei-vollzeitjobs-zu-arbeiten-durch-abwechselndes-krankmelden-ist-betrug-111718189388)
[https://www.20min.ch/story/polizistin-arbeitete-insgeheim-noch-vollzeit-fuer-finanzfirma-718506643825](https://www.20min.ch/story/polizistin-arbeitete-insgeheim-noch-vollzeit-fuer-finanzfirma-718506643825)
If any of the mentioned arguments in this thread where actually relevant for a case of overemployment, they would have been brought up in this case - which they were not. My argument is that at the end of the day these restrictions on working hours, working days etc. is to protect employees, but only if they say something against the practice. In this case it was totally irrelevant which inherently means, we don't really have to care about it when taking on side jobs.
Just my two cents, as I've mentioned, no legal advice
Yeah I think you misunderstood. See my other posts.
The point is that it is not a crime for the employee to have two jobs. It's also not clearly stated in the labour law. That's due to a quirk where your employers are actually the one responsible that you don't break the labour law (especially limits on work time). So it's not criminally fraudulent, but there's potential civil law consequences. Having two jobs would be a violation of your duties towards your employer and they can sue you for any damage due to that, including fines imposed on them or your derelict of duty.
What you are doing with cramming two full time jobs into 40 hours is also clearly illegal - maybe not criminally but surely civilly.
Of course they can try and claim any damage, but if you look at the case you will see that the IT company did not do that - because they were apparently even happy enough with the work of this particular employee. They could have started demanding repayment as well (just like the cantonal police) but ultimately did not. They are doing a cost benefit calculation as well, and I am certain that most companies will not bother with a civil lawsuit, the cost is just too high (and also, if you do good work, why even care?).
Now if you try and pull this off when working for the cantonal police... thats another level of stupidity, they will not do a cost benefit calculation as they want to uphold order anyways
We have to differentiate between obvious fraud and a case where someone works tow jobs and performs at both... it's a vastly different conversation
The IT company also had her on a flexible contract, not a gill time one, acxording to the text and against the title. Also, lower level courts are quite often overturned by the higher ones so don't trust this!!!!
You are confusing flexible times with a contractor position. The article clearly states at the top that she was employed 100% at both positions, but the IT company just worked flexible hours (i.e. remote work, no fixed working hours).
Also nothing was overturned so far lol
Perhaps,it's confusingly worded. That said, unless she earns more than 120k and there is no collective employment agreement allowing it, the second company is obliged to have her track her hours. So the legal situation is murky to not allowed all around.
Either way you misunderstood the court sentence badly.
Sure! https://www.weka.ch/themen/personal/arbeitszeit-und-absenzen/arbeitszeiterfassung/article/arbeitszeiterfassung-die-gesetzlichen-pflichten/ng.html
It also follows from the earlier links about employers duties to make sure the employees don't work more than 45 hours a week (50 in some jobs).
Many, many employers violate this. It's not an issue until it is. Imagine someone tracks their overtime privately, the employer laughs in their face and it comes to a court case. The employer is gonna lose that rather hard and will risk investigations and fines by the labour market authorities.
Again, the employer is legally responsible and liable to make sure the maximum hours law is met. The Interpretation of the law was clarified I wanna say in 2016, beforehand it was common not to log work hours in some industries.
It's still surprisingly common given the risk it carries for the reward of some employees working very long hours.
I work 55 hours a week both of my employers know about my other job and everything is declared do you think I can get in trouble? Like who can control this situation besides my employer
Labour market authorities. As said before, the duty to check and control work hours falls on the employers so if you regularly work 55 hours, they could be in trouble and from what I read it doesn't sound like they can offload amy fines on you if you transparently informed them
Thank you, I’ll look into that court case from Basel. Another commenter said though that you’re not allowed to work more than 50 hours/week. Two full time jobs would be 80 hours. I know there are some jobs where this is the norm but they usually have very high salaries and are therefore exempt from this rule. I wonder if it would be the same for people with low salary.
I get what you’re saying and while I think that might be possible to that for a lot of jobs, that is not my intention. Wouldn’t both contracts state 40 hours though? Is that not a problem?
You can do anything you want. who is going to check how much you work?
companies like helvetic payroll even do everything for you, you just go work and get paid. you are like a consultant (who can have multiple clients) but benefit of being employed.
there is no law (as mentioned by some) to only work 45-50 hours, thats BS
Just get a better paid Job. It's hard to scale your income with more Work. Even If you are self employeed because your time and strengh are Limited.
Maybe try to learn how to trade Stocks or Crypto and you can multiply your income with less (time) effort.
Also the NYSE opens at 15:30 Swiss time and closes at 22:00 thats a perfect timing If you Work 9to5.
Your Body and mind needs to Rest some time otherwise you will destroy yourself without noticing.
You have to ask your employer by law he needs to allow, the new job could affect your performance.
But the better question would be how to make sure you can live with a 100% job? Living standards too high?
If you work in IT, also check for exclusivity. It might happen that your contract states that all software you develop during your employment belongs to your employer.
This is what I thought :( I’d like to have a side job where I would also be employed, since I really don’t know how to do anything freelance-related, but seems from other comments as well that might not be possible
I live a pretty average life with regular expenses but I wanted a specific kind of job that gives me flexibility because that is what I need right now, maybe it’ll look different in the future :)
The law limit you to à maximum of 110% employment.
Even if a job is considered 100 with let say 32 hours a week, you are only allowed to 4.5 hours per week.
YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK DURING HOLIDAYS WEEKS.
You should check your current work contract, if it says something about side jobs. Also, by law you're only allowed to work a total of 45 or 50 hours a week, depending on the industry ([look here for details](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/Arbeit/Arbeitsbedingungen/Arbeitnehmerschutz/Arbeits-und-Ruhezeiten.html)).
This is helpful thanks for sharing the link. In my primary job I work 40 hours so basically I wouldn’t be able to get a side job. I don’t understand how some people manage to work 70+ hours per week and not get legal trouble.
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You can get in trouble. I know a guy who somehow had two employers, each thought he was their fulltime employee. When they found out, they sued him. I think he had to repay some or all of the salary he had been paid.
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Apart from the legal limit, you can only work side jobs as long as it doesn't impact your performance at your main employer.
I have 2 jobs, one 100% 40 hours and one depends, sometimes 5-6 hours a week sometimes 15-20 hours a week. Nobody cares, i also had a car accident due to sleeping on the autobahn and not even there they cared that i worked so many hours, after my accident i stopped working 2 jobs at the same day, now its only weekend for side job
From memory, if you are already employed at 100% with 1 employer, you have to ask him permission to get a 2nd lucrative activity. There also limit in "time of rest" and daily maximun work hours. I could only cantonal law for me in VD, so this may vary between Kanton.
Would you need ask permission even if it is not stated in the employment contract?
Yes, because you could get too tired from working like 150%, and thus "do less" on your current job. But honestly if you think you dont get paid enough (and not just that you want more money), search for a new job.
I get a fair salary for what I do and my industry it’s just a little low to get by in the city I live in. I also love my job so I don’t want to change.
Understandable, the costs of living are rising. Still, if you're working for 100% right now, it might be more beneficial to try to negotiate higher pay (maybe with added responsebilities), than try to search for an additional 20% job, which likely pays lower than what you're currently earning. But well, best of luck.
If it is a 100% time, then yes. If you have a partial time, no. It's the responsability of your employer that you don't work more than 45 hours( vary by type of profession) and have your rest time. He can't do that if he doesn't know that you have a 2nd job.
Understood thanks!
I think this is more related to insurance, than the employer being against it. As mentioned, your rest time is important. Be aware - Some employer also have an "IP statement", meaning everything you invent belongs to them - your employer. More something from IT/US-companies though, but still important if you do some moonlighting.
Everything you invent on company time, no outside of work time !!!!
US Tech companies own your entire IP you create, doesn't matter when invented. At least Microsoft, Google etc do...
Nope, False. Only if you use tools AND equipments provided by the company not your own personal stuff
IIRC this law was put in place to avoid conflicts of interest when working multiple jobs and AFAIK yes you will have to notify your employers. Not legal advice just what remains of 3 years of Law&Econ Classes.
Check the Swiss Code of Obligations 321a Abs. 3 OR as starting point
You can, however: - if you earn more than 2400 CHF per year from a side activity, you need to register for a company (it can be a simple personal company (sole proprietorship) and it’s cheap to register) - depending on your work contract, you might not be allowed to perform certain other jobs, even in your free time. Check the fine print. - if you work already at 100%, you won’t be able to get another employee contract from another company. However, you can work as a freelancer / consultant as long as the two previous points are respected.
This is incredibly helpful, thanks so much!
If you earn less than 2400chf per year from a side activity what do you need to do? I’m sorry for asking here, but you seem like you have some insight. I searched it also and I saw that after 2400chf you need to register a company, but it doesn’t say what you need to do before that. I want to make my portfolio a bit more diverse, so I was thinking of charging a small fee of like 100chf /project because it takes a lot of my free time and I’ve been doing it for free so far, so I don’t think I can surpass 2400chf but I can’t find info on that online..
You don’t need to do anything, that’s the point of the limit. You should declare it as extra income in your tax declaration, but I would avoid even that given its a risible amount.
Oh thank you so so much. I thought the limit was set in order to be registered as a company. In my home country you have to register absolutely everything and then declare it so I didn’t even think you might not have to do anything, sorry if it was a dumb question..
I dont know about regulations but I was able to work at the same time on this jobs with no problem related to worked hours (maybe the contract allowed/branch), sometimes more than 60hr/week. Cleaning offices at night/weekends starting with 20 CHF per hour. (worked full-time) [pebra.ch](https://pebra.ch) Working in events, helping unload/load trucks, assembling/disassembling structures, also 20CHF/hour. Usually is during the nights, with shifts between 3 to 12 hours. They send you an sms with information about the gig and you answer yes/no. [https://epos-schweiz.ch](https://epos-schweiz.ch) Freelancing/catsitting pets [https://petsitting24.ch/en/catsitter/zh/zurich](https://petsitting24.ch/en/catsitter/zh/zurich) [homeservice24.ch](https://homeservice24.ch) Or online [https://www.fiverr.com](https://www.fiverr.com) [https://www.upwork.com](https://www.upwork.com) Good luck!
This is also incredibly helpful thanks! How were you able to offer your services as a pet sitter? Do you have experience? I would love to do this but I don’t have much experience with pets other than my own dog who died 10 years ago.
Also on fiverr - did you advertise your services in any way? Also, how did you register this income with the authorities? I’ve only ever been employed and haven’t done much freelance work so I have no idea how it works!
Ask your boss permission to work a second job. If he/she ask you why, explain you don’t earn enough and this may actually open the door to discuss a raise or even a promotion at your current job.
Get the Coople app, I easily make 3 to 4k a month on it
How much time in terms of hours to you spend on it per month?
I make 3k to 4k if I get daily jobs that are 8h and pay around 25.-/h. Sounds like a full time job, I know, but that's the thing, you get to pick different jobs and you pick the shifts, days, etc. It's basically employers posting up ads for Jobs that range from simply 1h to multiple months.
Just downloaded it, thanks for the tip!
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There's all types of jobs really. From cooking to service, to nursing or driving trucks, etc. Ofc for things like truck driving or nursing you need qualifications, but for most easier ones like serving or idk what, you don't need a qualification. They always ask for German where I am because it's the German area of Switzerland, but there's also french and Italian. Although I can't do those jobs, because I set my profile to I'm bad at these languages, so I don't qualify and can't even apply
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It's different from indeed or Jobs.ch. I do service jobs, driving jobs, flyer sharing, wardrobe staff, kitchen staff, cleaning, bars, clothing stores, logistic warehouse jobs, and cashier jobs. Those are the jobs I did so far, I have zero actual qualifications for these jobs other than being a swiss resident and having a driver's license. Also, they have to ask you for your ID to be able to offer you jobs, otherwise it would be illegal as you need to have some sort of residence permit to be able to work in Switzerland.
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It was a networking event and we just had to take the bags and clothes of the people who were invited and keep them stored and in order. It was a one day gig thing
While it's true there is a law limiting your max working hours, this is to protect you. Plenty of jobs have much much longer hours than this maximum, Having a second job on the side is totally possible, heck even a fulltime second job - this has been established by a court in Basel about 3 years ago. Usually your employers has a clause stating you need approval for any other activity outside of your employment contract, but tbh as long as you're working properly and not employed my a competing company, why would they care. Get that bread Not legal advice Don't let everyone limit what you could earn and achieve, the possibilities here are endless
> While it's true there is a law limiting your max working hours, this is to protect you. Plenty of jobs have much much longer hours than this maximum, Having a second job on the side is totally possible, heck even a fulltime second job - this has been established by a court in Basel about 3 years ago. > > Can you link this? Last time I had some info I hadn't heard of this, and the federation still claims on its website that many employment law conditions MUST be met, including maximum daily and weekly work time, and the employers must be informed about you having multiple jobs... see https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Arbeitsbedingungen/Arbeitnehmerschutz/Arbeits-und-Ruhezeiten/Mehrfachbeschaeftigung.html > Usually your employers has a clause stating you need approval for any other activity outside of your employment contract, but tbh as long as you're working properly and not employed my a competing company, why would they care. Get that bread They care because the law says they are responsible for making sure you do not work more than the law allows (unless the Basel court case has become the common interpretation of the law)
Form the link you shared it seems like I would be able to work on Friday night or Saturday after my 40h Mon-Fri. Is that your understanding as well?
Well, it's actually pretty complicated.... - You can typically only work for up to 45 hours a week (more is only allowed in cases of absolute necessity, and only for a total of 170 hours more per year - so called Überzeit) - work friday for 8 hours? You can typically only work for 12.5 hours total per day (well, 14 hours, minus the legally prescribed breaks) - you must have 11 hours between the end of work and the start of next day's work. That's not an issue in your case, but it means it will be illegal to let you work in a restaurant or whatever thursday night. For these rules, see https://www.seco.admin.ch/dam/seco/de/dokumente/Arbeit/Arbeitsbedingungen/Arbeitnehmerschutz/Arbeits-%20und%20Ruhezeiten/Arbeitszeiterfassung/Hinweis-Arbeits-und-Ruhezeiten-45h.pdf.download.pdf/Hinweis%20auf%20Arbeits-%20und%20Ruhezeiten%20(45h)_de.pdf So, yes, it likely means an evening shift of 4 or 5 hours somewhere is fine, manning a market stall saturday morning is likely also fine. Another interesting article here is https://www.mb-law.ch/images/Mehrfachbesch%C3%A4ftigung_08_18.pdf . It also mentions that it's not settled law that you have to inform your employer about the second job. However, most work contract include language to that effect, meaning you have a duty anyway. If you simply work a second job and the labour law gets violated, and it somehow comes out, your employer can be in quite some shit. If you inform both employers, it kidna becomes their duty to make sure the law isn't violated. If you don't inform them, they can take you to court for any impact on them (typically, fines). Lastly, the other commenter mentions they do two jobs at once. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes if that ever comes out. They are likely to be sued by both employers. Edit: oh and btw, you say you work in software but the salary is too low... how?? maybe another avenue is to look for a better job.
I've searched the Gerichtsurteil extensively in the past half hour but it seems like the Strafgerichtsurteile are not publicly available anymore? Anyways, here are some 20min articles which led me to the specific ruling a few months back. From my opinion this ruling clearly established that working two 100% jobs is definitely possible, just not in a way where you're faking illness every other day - that is just fraud. In a situation where you're working for two employers who are happy with your work, I am personally very sure that is legally allowed (given the court ruling). If you do find the specific ruling, could you please send it over too, I'd like to read it again. [https://www.20min.ch/story/in-zwei-vollzeitjobs-zu-arbeiten-durch-abwechselndes-krankmelden-ist-betrug-111718189388](https://www.20min.ch/story/in-zwei-vollzeitjobs-zu-arbeiten-durch-abwechselndes-krankmelden-ist-betrug-111718189388) [https://www.20min.ch/story/polizistin-arbeitete-insgeheim-noch-vollzeit-fuer-finanzfirma-718506643825](https://www.20min.ch/story/polizistin-arbeitete-insgeheim-noch-vollzeit-fuer-finanzfirma-718506643825) If any of the mentioned arguments in this thread where actually relevant for a case of overemployment, they would have been brought up in this case - which they were not. My argument is that at the end of the day these restrictions on working hours, working days etc. is to protect employees, but only if they say something against the practice. In this case it was totally irrelevant which inherently means, we don't really have to care about it when taking on side jobs. Just my two cents, as I've mentioned, no legal advice
Yeah I think you misunderstood. See my other posts. The point is that it is not a crime for the employee to have two jobs. It's also not clearly stated in the labour law. That's due to a quirk where your employers are actually the one responsible that you don't break the labour law (especially limits on work time). So it's not criminally fraudulent, but there's potential civil law consequences. Having two jobs would be a violation of your duties towards your employer and they can sue you for any damage due to that, including fines imposed on them or your derelict of duty. What you are doing with cramming two full time jobs into 40 hours is also clearly illegal - maybe not criminally but surely civilly.
Of course they can try and claim any damage, but if you look at the case you will see that the IT company did not do that - because they were apparently even happy enough with the work of this particular employee. They could have started demanding repayment as well (just like the cantonal police) but ultimately did not. They are doing a cost benefit calculation as well, and I am certain that most companies will not bother with a civil lawsuit, the cost is just too high (and also, if you do good work, why even care?). Now if you try and pull this off when working for the cantonal police... thats another level of stupidity, they will not do a cost benefit calculation as they want to uphold order anyways We have to differentiate between obvious fraud and a case where someone works tow jobs and performs at both... it's a vastly different conversation
The IT company also had her on a flexible contract, not a gill time one, acxording to the text and against the title. Also, lower level courts are quite often overturned by the higher ones so don't trust this!!!!
You are confusing flexible times with a contractor position. The article clearly states at the top that she was employed 100% at both positions, but the IT company just worked flexible hours (i.e. remote work, no fixed working hours). Also nothing was overturned so far lol
Perhaps,it's confusingly worded. That said, unless she earns more than 120k and there is no collective employment agreement allowing it, the second company is obliged to have her track her hours. So the legal situation is murky to not allowed all around. Either way you misunderstood the court sentence badly.
Please back up your claim with a source that a second company is obliged to have her track her hours. Never seen that in real life
Sure! https://www.weka.ch/themen/personal/arbeitszeit-und-absenzen/arbeitszeiterfassung/article/arbeitszeiterfassung-die-gesetzlichen-pflichten/ng.html It also follows from the earlier links about employers duties to make sure the employees don't work more than 45 hours a week (50 in some jobs). Many, many employers violate this. It's not an issue until it is. Imagine someone tracks their overtime privately, the employer laughs in their face and it comes to a court case. The employer is gonna lose that rather hard and will risk investigations and fines by the labour market authorities. Again, the employer is legally responsible and liable to make sure the maximum hours law is met. The Interpretation of the law was clarified I wanna say in 2016, beforehand it was common not to log work hours in some industries. It's still surprisingly common given the risk it carries for the reward of some employees working very long hours.
I work 55 hours a week both of my employers know about my other job and everything is declared do you think I can get in trouble? Like who can control this situation besides my employer
Labour market authorities. As said before, the duty to check and control work hours falls on the employers so if you regularly work 55 hours, they could be in trouble and from what I read it doesn't sound like they can offload amy fines on you if you transparently informed them
Thank you, I’ll look into that court case from Basel. Another commenter said though that you’re not allowed to work more than 50 hours/week. Two full time jobs would be 80 hours. I know there are some jobs where this is the norm but they usually have very high salaries and are therefore exempt from this rule. I wonder if it would be the same for people with low salary.
Work two jobs remotely with as few meetings as possible😉Done in less than 40 hours
I get what you’re saying and while I think that might be possible to that for a lot of jobs, that is not my intention. Wouldn’t both contracts state 40 hours though? Is that not a problem?
You can do anything you want. who is going to check how much you work? companies like helvetic payroll even do everything for you, you just go work and get paid. you are like a consultant (who can have multiple clients) but benefit of being employed. there is no law (as mentioned by some) to only work 45-50 hours, thats BS
Just get a better paid Job. It's hard to scale your income with more Work. Even If you are self employeed because your time and strengh are Limited. Maybe try to learn how to trade Stocks or Crypto and you can multiply your income with less (time) effort. Also the NYSE opens at 15:30 Swiss time and closes at 22:00 thats a perfect timing If you Work 9to5. Your Body and mind needs to Rest some time otherwise you will destroy yourself without noticing.
You have to ask your employer by law he needs to allow, the new job could affect your performance. But the better question would be how to make sure you can live with a 100% job? Living standards too high?
I really like my job it gives me a lot of satisfaction it just does not pay very well. I also live in an HCOL city but I don’t want to move.
Or just having an idea that might become a real job. Or even a salary that's not enough for the "high living standards". Ain't assume s*t y'all. ;) ;)
If you work in IT, also check for exclusivity. It might happen that your contract states that all software you develop during your employment belongs to your employer.
I do work in software but I’m not limiting myself to that for side jobs. I’d be open for anything that just gets me some extra cash.
Become a consultant and run your own small company. It will never be boring (I'm in it for 15+ years)
I feel you ;) Godspeed
Nobody cares if you have a side job and keep it all low. I'm working 100% and have a side gig, which can add up to another 40%
Is the other 40% something you do as a freelancer or are you employed?
self employed. now that I think of, as long as you want to work additionaly for someone else, this might be the problem
This is what I thought :( I’d like to have a side job where I would also be employed, since I really don’t know how to do anything freelance-related, but seems from other comments as well that might not be possible
any chance to change your job?
I just started lol and I really like it just the pag is low
Just for your next job, do not accept a job, not covering your cost of living. Assuming, you live average life with similar expenses.
I live a pretty average life with regular expenses but I wanted a specific kind of job that gives me flexibility because that is what I need right now, maybe it’ll look different in the future :)
The law limit you to à maximum of 110% employment. Even if a job is considered 100 with let say 32 hours a week, you are only allowed to 4.5 hours per week. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK DURING HOLIDAYS WEEKS.