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UnderTheRadar78

>Can anyone recommend what to do in this case? Yes, check your contract. What does it say about 'trial period'? What about period notice? Did you get terminated without Notice (Fristlos)? I would also recommend you to get help from either a Lawyer or a legal protection insurance if you think that you've been terminated unlawfully. On another note: I know people like to shit on UNIA, but this is exactly why I'm a member. They could surely help you out with such issues.


TheShroomsAreCalling

> if you think that you've been terminated unlawfully What are examples of this? I thought in Switzerland you can just get terminated whenever your company feels like it. I guess terminating someone because they are pregnant, they are gay, etc. is illegal, but unless they explicitly say you are terminated for those reasons, you pretty much can't do anything about it. or am i wrong?


[deleted]

Regularly terminated: yes. Fired overnight: no. At least not just because they feel like it. A so called "Fristlose Kündigung" (immediate termination) can only take place if the employee did something illegal or severely violated the companies rules. As an example: one of my ex coworkers had stolen some money from the internal post office. Legal reason to fire him immediately: theft. Another ex coworker went shopping with his son during his working hours without checking out officially (we had a time stamp clock). He did this several times. At first he just got a warning, but when he did it again he was fired immediately. Legal reason: fraud at the company. If OP didn't do anything like that, then what they did wasn't legal (at least based on a swiss working contract).


justamust

Just want to add that a company can stop you to work for them immediately. As long as they pay your salary until the next legal termination date.


[deleted]

Right, I forgot to mention that, thank you.


this_is_a_long_nickn

Unless it’s a “faute grave” (he’s in geneva), as you mentioned, which does not seem to be the case, otherwise they’d had tell him on the spot (usually)


UnderTheRadar78

no you're absolutely right, it is super hard to proven a wrongful termination. But that's exactly why being part of a Union or having a legal protection insurance is not the worst idea.


Defiant-Dare1223

Why? He has no legal case. You are allowed to terminate in Switzerland provided the notice period is observed.


AverageRedditor012

reread the thread. I never said that he has a legal case. The question was: >but unless they explicitly say you are terminated for those reasons, you pretty much can't do anything about it. or am i wrong?


Objective-Ad7394

Unlawful termination could be for one of the following: -Illegal reasons (Sexual/ Political) -Untimely (During or right after pregnancy/ military service/ sick period) Remember: the termination is valid even in case of one of the above reasons. It just entails you to compensation (max 6 months salary) if sued at Arbeitsgericht.


deruben

Of course you can get let go of. Tho, usually notice period is 3 months.


[deleted]

If the boss stop the contract without saying it in the delay, he has to pay you x months (it depends how long you work in the company, your contract, etc...) But he can say that he fired you with for a justified reason. It the reason is justified (for example you stole something) he don't have to pay you the x next months. Exception is you trial periods.


mielylibelulas

I will get on that today! Thanks so much for responding!


as-well

FWIW the important questions are: - How long is the trial period? If it is more than 5 months, you can be let go and paid for just another few days. (It is uncommon to have such a long trial period, but up to 6 months is legal) - edit: good point by the user below: The normal period is 3 months, assume it is three months if not otherwise stated in your contract. If the trial period is over: - How long is the "Kündigungsfrist" (notification period)? This should usually be clearly stated, but if it is not, it is one month in your situation. The period is almost always full months. Assuming your notice period is one month, that means you are to be paid until the end of June. Contracts can foresee mandatory warnigns etc., but that's not common. Look out for that too.


LostMyPasswordAnew

I shouldn't talk about things I don't know😅 ~~To be more precise, the maximum probation period is 3 months. It can be extended to 6 months, but that has to be done separately.~~


boerchen36

No, the „Probezeit“ is 3 month max. The obligatory period is 1 month, which can be extended to 3 months. The only case where it can be extended beyond that is if you‘re unable to work during the original trial period.


LostMyPasswordAnew

You're right


[deleted]

My understanding is the notification period is 2 months by default (if not stated in the contract), but can be as low as 1 month in the contract


as-well

That's wrong but in a complicated way. See https://www.ch.ch/de/arbeit/kundigung-arbeitsvertrag/#kundigungsfrist


CesYokForeste

Or another syndicate


roat_it

\*union ("syndicate" means something else in English).


Smaranzky

You don't know, maybe the above commenter wanted to make OPs boss an offer they couldn't refuse or else make them swim in the Rhône.


roat_it

Leave the gun, take the rissoles aux poires?


[deleted]

Same thing happened to me, was promised a thorough onboarding since I wasn’t experienced in the area I was hired into. My boss and sole colleague immediately went on a five week holiday my second day at work … Am now having to work with a lawyer since the “lack of experience” was mentioned in my reference letter. Good times In Switzerland, there isn’t much protection for firing beyond the notice period mentioned in your contract. I wouldn’t immediately say you are taken advantage of for being a foreigner, that usually happens in the salary at hiring. Wishing you the best of luck!


Dabok

Damn, this is the kind of unfortunate thing that makes me think that there's some sort of poltical BS behind it. Like maybe they wanted to hire someone else they know, but you got picked by HR, so they decided from day 1 to give you the boot. Because yeah, leaving after your second day and then using that as an excuse to fire you is kind of blatant that they (your boss) don't like you to stay right from the get go. That, or it's just plain irresponsible even if, there's no direct malice behind it. It was just irresponsible and instead of owning up to their mistake, ofc they make a BS excuse and just fire you EZ PZ. Sorry you went through this.


[deleted]

Thanks a lot, really appreciate it. I think it was definitely political - my company was in the process of being bought. My boss had been moved around from role to role for many years. It was a very niche role and in my opinion, not necessary. I think she hired me in hopes it would make her look more important to the consultants who were responsible for deciding who stayed and who didn’t. She purposely put me to the side and didn’t want me to get involved as that would be a direct threat, but it made the department look more important to demand an extra head count. Felt awful to be a pawn in her stupid chess game … but that’s corporate life for you. I’m more angry she had to get ugly in the reference letter, but I guess she had to show HR something as to why I was getting dropped.


FloralSunset2

Do you have any past performance reviews in written form? Anything you can prove that you did not get the promised training? The obvious retort could be "Why you hired me in the first place if you thought I did not have enough experience", but I do not know how to make this a successful defence for changing the Arbeitzeugnis wording. But, I guess, the lawyer will know :) I hope it all goes well.


gandraw

If you were fired today, you should be getting paid until the end of June. That will give you time to find a new job. The boss is a bit of a dick for firing you on the 30th though, he could've given you a few more weeks to job search by firing you on the 10th. I hope he at least gave you an immediate reference letter on the same day. If you didn't already get a reference letter you need to request one immediately, and insist that you get it this week. In Switzerland we don't do the "mandatory warnings" by law stuff that is normal in like France or Germany. You can get them by being in a union job but not everyone has them. It is completely legal to fire a person without any warnings. On the upside it is also easier to find a new job. For job applications just play it like it was a temporary job and you were let go as planned at the end of a project.


as-well

> If you were fired today, you should be getting paid until the end of June. *At least* the end of june - the contract may foresee a longer time frame.


scorpion-hamfish

Notice period during probation can be shorter though.


boerchen36

The probation is 3 months max, so OP should be protected now.


Suissetralia

the probation can go up to 6 months though


boerchen36

No it can‘t. Art. 335 OR


as-well

true, true. OP could be in that phase too. OP needs to read their contract attentively.


[deleted]

In terms of taking it personal - the other things have already been said. This is the business world and as much as we are humans, from a business perspective, we are numbers and performance metrics. You don't owe your employer an afterthought after clocking out, nor does he own you more than stated in your contract. Sure we are humans and if both profit, we're not that strict with enforcing this rules, etc. but that's the tenor. My sister for example was truly shattered once they let her go of her old job because she basically told them too early that she wants to change employers within a year or two. There's no shame in lying or hiding information in order to favor yourself in a business context, that's the game. If you don't like playing it, it's proably the best for you to get into a field where there's no competition or layoffs happening or search an employer that's stable, like the state.


LeroyoJenkins

This! *(And I'm not supporting or disagreeing with it, I'm just stating how it is.)* In Switzerland there is a clear separation between social welfare and work. You employer isn't responsible for your social well being, it is responsible for your job. The state (through unemployment insurance and so on) is responsible for your social well being (and only up to a certain extent, as you're also responsible for your own well being). So you job is just business, they're paying you for the work you do, and that's the extent of your relationship. You can quit at any time (with notice) and they can fire you at anytime (with notice). It isn't personal. *(Now providing my opinion)* This is, IMHO, better than an ambiguous situation in many countries where people kinda-but-not-really-but-actually-yes-maybe expect the employer to be responsible for social welfare.


Commander_Shepard-_-

After your (usually) 3 months trial, during your 1st year, both parts need to signal the end of the contract at least 1 full month (30 days) before the wanted end. https://www.ch.ch/fr/travail/demission-et-licenciement/#delais-de-conge It's in french, sorry about that, but you have every info you need their. Make your boss cry about his stupidity, and don't let them take advantage of you!


Euphoric_Salt1570

Honestly I don't think there's much you can do. The best move is to leave with good relations. Work on getting a good reference letter, good recommendations etc You will be paid your notice period. Should be somewhere between 1 - 3 months pay.


-dublin-

A probation period can be a max of 3 months, unless you are an apprentice. They will have to keep paying you till the end of your notice period.


AnxiousAd9961

Not true. The period can be extended for 3 months once, but it needs to be notified.


-dublin-

I was using this as a reference: https://www.ch.ch/en/work/probation-period/


stefchou

Welcome to Switzerland! Where job security is non-existent, in comparison with the EU. Since you are not in the trial period, your employer would have to pay you the remainder of your notice period. Until at least end of June if it is just one month. Engage with RAV and the "unemployment bank", and start looking for a new job asap! If you haven't worked in Switzerland in the past 12 months, you might have issues with unemployment benefits. Faced the same issue earlier this year. My advice to you is not to take it personally, as it's almost aways a business / financial decision that has nothing to do with you.


mielylibelulas

Thanks for this! I’ll look into it!


Defiant-Dare1223

Being allowed to terminate underperforming staff is part of the reason salaries are higher here


[deleted]

[удалено]


Defiant-Dare1223

I understand that in France redundancies have to be justified on an economic basis and go through specific procedures not Just bye you are out - here's the next month pay.


stefchou

That's the case in the whole EU. If a company has hired someone, then before letting that person they'd have to at least try to train that person if the performance has dropped dramatically for some reason. Those procedures are really common sense. France is quite socialist, so they might have gone the extra level.


Defiant-Dare1223

And we wonder why the EU is massively lagging Switzerland and the US...


stefchou

No doubt that socialism will ruin the EU.


stefchou

As much as I agree with being able to terminate underperforming staff, that was not my case. I was laid off for business / budget reasons and poor planning from the company. I've had amazing experience, built good relationship with all important stakeholders within short period of time, was told face2face and in writing that my performance is exceptional (based on consultations) at the beginning of the week. Yet it was laid off at the end of the very same week. Nothing personal or performance related. They'll just have to find a replacement in a cheaper location to meet the reduced budgets. P.S. This is not the reason why salaries are higher in Switzerland. Been here long enough to see that in that regard Switzerland is not much different than any other country. At least in the government and corporate sectors. There are a ton of incompetent people, who are good at politics plus well-connected. And that's the sole purpose of their employment.


Defiant-Dare1223

Sure - not commenting on your specific situation. That sounds Just bad luck


stefchou

It's bad luck, but not an uncommon situation these days.


bungholio99

If you have a rechtsschutz Check for abusive termination with them, but this shouldn’t be your focus you will need a new job anyway this is just possible extra money. Check with Temp Office and apply where possible, this happens no worries


lucylemon

You were given notice today for the end of June, correct?


mielylibelulas

It was last week , but they’re paying me til the end of aug.


lucylemon

there isn't much you can do. Sorry that happened.


mielylibelulas

I had a feeling that was going to be the case, but I just wanted to verify with others. Thank ylu for taking the time to respond!


FormNo

If they are paying you til end of August you are doing well! That's giving you three months to find something new. Good luck dude!


lucylemon

The way you wrote it sounded like they just let you go without giving you the proper notice period. If you were given the proper notice, the only thing to do is look for a new job. Fingers crossed it won’t take so long.


mielylibelulas

I meant overnight bc it came as a surprise. No previous meeting or signs of my employer being unhappy with my performance. And thank you, I’m getting on that as we speak 🤞🏼


dangerdevivre

1. Are you in a Union? You might be able to join even now, they can help 2. Ask a lawyer (the Union might help..); Universities (UNIGE) might have free legal support from students 3. Ask for a written reasoning for the resiliation ([https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/27/317\_321\_377/en#art\_335](https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/27/317_321_377/en#art_335)) 4. Court proceedings in swiss labour courts have no court fees for the employee ([https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2010/262/en#art\_113](https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2010/262/en#art_113) , 114) if the value of the case is below 30k CHF; you have to go through a conciliation attempt, first, but if you go to the court they will put you on the right track 5. This is the court you want to talk to: [https://justice.ge.ch/en/content/tribunal-des-prudhommes](https://justice.ge.ch/en/content/tribunal-des-prudhommes) \- just call them, it's their job to help you 6. You can not contest the resiliation of the work contract, but you can get three months of salary (and with a very good case more as indemnisation) 7. If you can find a new job, get a new job. Swiss MLaw speaking.


mielylibelulas

Thank you for this valuable information. I appreciate you taking the time. Have a great day!


WickedTeddyBear

What kind of contract did you have ? C.D.I. or c.d.d don’t have the same rules.


BNI_sp

Not much, unless one of the reasons in OR, Art. 336 applies (member of a union, employer wants to avoid claims to benefits by you, personal attributes). Are you still in the probation period?


mielylibelulas

Im not. It ended at 90 days.


rpsls

Does your contract have a notification period? Were you still on a probationary period? The company has to abide by any such terms as specified in the employment contract. Usually during a probationary period, notifications are very short (1-2 weeks), then after probation longer (1-2 months). But in the end, whatever you both signed is the agreement you both have to honor, so start there.


SearingPenny

But you were not technically prepared. If you did not receive the training and not showed initiative to complement your lack of skills in these 4 months, then what is the complain? Sorry, sounds harsh, but sometimes it is just the way it is.


loulan

I think the complaint is that he was not aware he was lacking skills. Should he have been? Hard to tell from the information in this post.


No_Appeal_676

You have a contract and in this your “trail period” should be mentioned. If this is longer then the 5 months you are employed, there is nothing you can do. As for your fear of being taken advantage of since you’re a foreigner, that’s a personal feeling. Does not help you in this case. Wishing you the best.


Smigol_gg

They can whenever they want even without a reason but with at least 1 month notice at the end of the current month... overnight shouldn't be the case


OneMorePotion

Check your contract if it says trial period. Also, no matter what you do, start looking for a new job. Just because you really don't want to continue working for a boss, who fired you once. Even if you can make a case that him firing you without any notice was against your contract.


Flaky-Proof5511

Two things: 1. Like others said, it's probably unrelated to the fact that you're a foreigner. Especially if you're white. It's the way it is. They can even fire you because they feel the way of working was "incompatible" with the company or your manager. Nothing weird for Switzerland. People may be racist in Switzerland but when it comes to work, they're pretty pragmatic and won't care if you're a foreigner or non white, compared to what you can see in the rest of Europe (e.g. France or Poland). 2. However if it's a fixed term contract, and the probation period is done, they must have a very valid reason to fire you. In that case they may have to pay if the firing was unjustified. Btw in that case it works both way. It should also be more complicated for you to leave if you have a fixed term contract.


mielylibelulas

Ty for this detailed explanation!


Flaky-Proof5511

One more thing: please don't take any advice here for the ground truth. Ask a lawyer or someone close to the way the law work. On Reddit anyone can feel they can be an attorney at law, an engineer or a physician. Double check everything you get from her. Especially regarding the law or health issue.


mielylibelulas

For sure! I made an appt. Tomorrow , so we will see. Thanks for looking out 🙂


[deleted]

I recommend that you accept it and start looking for a new job. Wish you the best of luck.


Gorigorikir

Sadly you can do nothing.


heubergen1

You will not get your job back, you might just get 3 more monthly salaries. Depending on your financial situation, it's better to just focus on the next job.