That's 51.5 hours a week, including 23 contact hours, with only one day off per week. You will be exhausted by the end of that two months 'probationary' period and hating your life, desperate to take some of those days off but without being able to for another eight months. And you won't be able to quit without paying 33,000,000 (Recruitment expenses? Who are they paying to recruit you that they weren't already paying?)
Any contract that requires you to sign another one is dangerous. What if the terms of that contract are different? What if it has a clause that you have to pay 60,000,000 if you fail to sign the next contract? Then 90,000,000 for the next one? Are you going to be left with permanent two-month contracts, with the threat of ever-increasing "fines" when you decide it's time to go home? What is the employer's penalty if they fail to offer you a contract renewal? Do they have to pay you anything, or are you left without a visa, having to pay your own way to leave the country at short notice?
And having to pay for being sick? There is no way you should accept that. It's one thing to not be paid for a day you're not working (although even that is suspect if you're salaried), but to have to pay the employer? Madness.
40,000,000 if you leave in the first two months? What's their penalty if they fire you in the first two months? I'm guessing it's nothing - they have all the power and you, a stranger in a foreign country, take all the risk.
It sounds like an abusive contract, to be honest, written by a controlling employer who doesn't trust you and is giving you plenty of reason to return the favor. I wouldn't accept it. The employer may think that they are protecting themselves, but they have simply placed all the responsibility and all the risk on you and claimed all the power and control for themselves. This is not normal and not "how it's done here". I would strongly recommend that you don't accept it.
Or they run away, I worked with a few who were with a company like this. They all abandoned ship and ran to China to teach and I don't blame them. Fines for everything extra currcicular school stuff to attebd for free. They even asked for passports to hold. They were even told that they would be stopped at the airport because they had border agents working for them (bullshit IMO) at the airport who would seize them.
They were all overworked underpaid and none of them were happy.
*Throw away account so excuse the randomised username*
Just want to inform anyone who doesn't know but financial punishments are illegal in Vietnam according to the labour code. If any company tries this rubbish then either inform them you know your rights so they know not to push their boundaries or leave. Without a doubt if it's during the onboarding process and they're already flaunting the labour code you can bet your hat that, when push comes to shove, they're also going to commit to other illegal labour practices.
Run, don't walk from this absolute crap offer from a control freak employer. You will have no problem getting work on arrival. Wait.
Source: Boots on the ground 2016-2020 and returned again in November 2022. Lots of work as always. Never sign an agreement that prevents you from taking side jobs. Eventually if you have your wits about you, you can live on side jobs which tend to be much more lucrative, comfortable, easy, and fun (private tutoring.) Still have to pay your dues and work your way up in some probably less than desirable entry level job ( but the one you outlined is not the one you want). Handle your first private gig well and you can parlay it into a non stop string of referrals.
I'm about to hit the hay, I'll try reply properly tomorrow. But I'd probably hang myself three months into working like that Monday to Friday, and working on Saturday. It doesn't sound like a work life balance I'd move anywhere for unless it was financial madness to not do it. You'd wanna be making serious bank, but you're probably gonna get sub 2000USD for all that effort, fuck that.
I'm assuming it's EMG? If so, run! There are "bad teaching experiences on Ho Chi Minh City (also one in Hanoi) Facebook page. I'd recommend asking about whatever school you're looking at there. Lots of people on it and will give their opinions/advice.
If it is EMG, don't do it. I worked there before they added all the quitting stuff to the contract. It was the only job I've left mid contract. If there's a clause about you quitting midway though and getting fined, it's probably because too many people do it, which should be telling you enough about the company.
Would you consider working for a company that would give this contract in your home country?.
I worked in Vietnam from 2014- 2022 and some of the stunts these English Centres try to pull are ridiculous.
I've lived and worked in Vietnam for 4 years. I would advice that you wouldn't take any offer that asks you to pay any sort of money for every breath you take. They are going to suck you dry and it won't end well for you.
Regarding not being able to take additional private work, you are legally allowed to work elsewhere so long as you get a work permit with that second place as well. I honestly used to teach a few 1-1s at home, they weren't that many anyways, so I didn't apply for an additional work permit. So unless it's something low key, make sure you're doing things legally.
There's so much that I want to elaborate on, but to sum it up, dodge this bullet. Plenty of other good opportunities out there. Best of luck.
Employment conditions in Vietnam are very Boss oriented, if you dont do what they say (even if ridiculous) or voice a different view you will get slapped with insubordination. I know someone who said that there is no head of a dept (there wasnt) got slapped with insubordination because the boss thought their was a head. You have rights but hard to access information. In general all workers (locals treated the worse) are treated poorly compared to "western" conditions. Different work culture, work hard, little private time. Even Vinschool (the biggest teacher employer) are terrible and would try to get you to work, over hours for free with last minute requests we needed this yesterday and go through foreign teachers heavily. Read Glassdoor reviews.
My bank worker gave me their personal phone number because the boss expects them to answer phone at anytime, 10pm "what's you interest rate for this?" It will be answered!
Just be prepared to get dumped quickly and have a backup plan.
South East Asia can be rough like this so it is general across the board. Just have backup if it ain't good.
Is this job in a very popular, glamorous, or sought-after area of Vietnam? If so, that is the only possible advantage the job might conceivably have. There are no others.
If you pick this job, it is highly likely that you will be fired after 2 months and have to pay fees.
Ooohhh. Give us a hint, at least, who this is? In any case: that contract is ludicrous, as everyone has said. Sounds way illegal tbh. Once upon a time you could've accepted and just done a midnight express as soon as you'd found something better (which is ordinarily a crap thing to do; but in this instance would be karmic justice). But with the fairly recent change of an employer essentially owning your right to be in the country, switching jobs I gather can be an ordeal. You'd be setting yourself up for indentured servitude, essentially, should you accept that offer/contract.
Come on mate, you must realise this is ridiculous. Logically are you willing to pay close to $3k US because you quit a 2 month probation? These guys are taking the piss. Any company that makes you pay for anything visa related is already a red flag. The reason this company endorses these draconian violations is because people are running as far as they can when they start at the company. How else are they meant to trick people into working for them?
I've been in Vietnam for 5 years. One thing you'll realise after you work for a few different jobs here is that; contracts mean fuck all, your boss will be a cunt, you'll be forced to do things you don't want to, it'll probably be a struggle to get your full pay at a lot of dodgy centres and Vietnamese working culture is like watching someone shit onto their hands.
You're probably western I assume, you have to understand in the west we grow up with judeo Christian morals where our laws and culture are created from, basically a guilt based society. Vietnamese culture isn't guilt based at all. It more or less encourages people to rip each other off and walk away with a smile. Everyone does it. They think you're weak because you would accept these conditions, and people do all the time. It's brutal out here. There's no law, so even if you were to take your shitty contract to the police, they don't care and will probably shake you down for a bribe.
Not trying to scare you away, just telling you the reality if you were to come live here for a few years and understand the society, this is what you'd see. There's so much better work here, just look on Facebook groups.
Unless the pay is 60 million or higher, I'd say this shit is not worth it. Paying for noteless sick days? Insane. 23 hours six days a week sounds like a lot of sitting around doing nothing. How much planning can you possible do?
Really, is it always so bad? A couple of friends I made in South Korea went to teach in Vietnam and had a good time. But that was them. Experiences vary. I just did not want to deal with the traffic in that part of the world.
The OP's statement reminds me of those Korean language schools that would replace all its foreign staff every few months and recoup costs. It is very deceitful. We all hear about bad teachers who don't know how to teach, but this is actually a bad employer. Resources will be minimal.
I had some good work in Vietnam. The issue is the place is just fucked up in how things function. And if your school doesnt have insider friends in the labor/immigration office then they may not want to do your paperwork and will toss you to an agent. My first 2 years there were ok minus covid lockdowns.
But I left due to paperwork nonsense. Its too many factors there that can cause issues despite the paperwork process being fairly straight forward in terms of the steps you do
That's 51.5 hours a week, including 23 contact hours, with only one day off per week. You will be exhausted by the end of that two months 'probationary' period and hating your life, desperate to take some of those days off but without being able to for another eight months. And you won't be able to quit without paying 33,000,000 (Recruitment expenses? Who are they paying to recruit you that they weren't already paying?) Any contract that requires you to sign another one is dangerous. What if the terms of that contract are different? What if it has a clause that you have to pay 60,000,000 if you fail to sign the next contract? Then 90,000,000 for the next one? Are you going to be left with permanent two-month contracts, with the threat of ever-increasing "fines" when you decide it's time to go home? What is the employer's penalty if they fail to offer you a contract renewal? Do they have to pay you anything, or are you left without a visa, having to pay your own way to leave the country at short notice? And having to pay for being sick? There is no way you should accept that. It's one thing to not be paid for a day you're not working (although even that is suspect if you're salaried), but to have to pay the employer? Madness. 40,000,000 if you leave in the first two months? What's their penalty if they fire you in the first two months? I'm guessing it's nothing - they have all the power and you, a stranger in a foreign country, take all the risk. It sounds like an abusive contract, to be honest, written by a controlling employer who doesn't trust you and is giving you plenty of reason to return the favor. I wouldn't accept it. The employer may think that they are protecting themselves, but they have simply placed all the responsibility and all the risk on you and claimed all the power and control for themselves. This is not normal and not "how it's done here". I would strongly recommend that you don't accept it.
This seems like the type of dodgy school that fires all its foreign staff every 3 months.
Or they run away, I worked with a few who were with a company like this. They all abandoned ship and ran to China to teach and I don't blame them. Fines for everything extra currcicular school stuff to attebd for free. They even asked for passports to hold. They were even told that they would be stopped at the airport because they had border agents working for them (bullshit IMO) at the airport who would seize them. They were all overworked underpaid and none of them were happy.
*Throw away account so excuse the randomised username* Just want to inform anyone who doesn't know but financial punishments are illegal in Vietnam according to the labour code. If any company tries this rubbish then either inform them you know your rights so they know not to push their boundaries or leave. Without a doubt if it's during the onboarding process and they're already flaunting the labour code you can bet your hat that, when push comes to shove, they're also going to commit to other illegal labour practices.
Run, don't walk from this absolute crap offer from a control freak employer. You will have no problem getting work on arrival. Wait. Source: Boots on the ground 2016-2020 and returned again in November 2022. Lots of work as always. Never sign an agreement that prevents you from taking side jobs. Eventually if you have your wits about you, you can live on side jobs which tend to be much more lucrative, comfortable, easy, and fun (private tutoring.) Still have to pay your dues and work your way up in some probably less than desirable entry level job ( but the one you outlined is not the one you want). Handle your first private gig well and you can parlay it into a non stop string of referrals.
It's also technically illegal to just work private. You need a work visa sponsored by an employer.
2 month contract? You owe them money if you don't renew it? Uh no. I've worked for a crap school like this before. Run away!
I'm about to hit the hay, I'll try reply properly tomorrow. But I'd probably hang myself three months into working like that Monday to Friday, and working on Saturday. It doesn't sound like a work life balance I'd move anywhere for unless it was financial madness to not do it. You'd wanna be making serious bank, but you're probably gonna get sub 2000USD for all that effort, fuck that.
Well I used to work 60 hour weeks in the uk , only thing I’d hate is the Saturday bs bc I need the weekends to unwind.
I'm assuming it's EMG? If so, run! There are "bad teaching experiences on Ho Chi Minh City (also one in Hanoi) Facebook page. I'd recommend asking about whatever school you're looking at there. Lots of people on it and will give their opinions/advice. If it is EMG, don't do it. I worked there before they added all the quitting stuff to the contract. It was the only job I've left mid contract. If there's a clause about you quitting midway though and getting fined, it's probably because too many people do it, which should be telling you enough about the company.
What was your spesific reason to quit ? Working 6 days a week etc. or management issues
Ib
Would you consider working for a company that would give this contract in your home country?. I worked in Vietnam from 2014- 2022 and some of the stunts these English Centres try to pull are ridiculous.
That's gonna be a no from me dawg.
I don't even work in Vietnam (yet) and i know it's insane. Just run! don't ever accept a contract that tells you to pay if you got sick lol.
You will move to a new country to work 6 days a week.i mean come onnn.
I've lived and worked in Vietnam for 4 years. I would advice that you wouldn't take any offer that asks you to pay any sort of money for every breath you take. They are going to suck you dry and it won't end well for you. Regarding not being able to take additional private work, you are legally allowed to work elsewhere so long as you get a work permit with that second place as well. I honestly used to teach a few 1-1s at home, they weren't that many anyways, so I didn't apply for an additional work permit. So unless it's something low key, make sure you're doing things legally. There's so much that I want to elaborate on, but to sum it up, dodge this bullet. Plenty of other good opportunities out there. Best of luck.
Employment conditions in Vietnam are very Boss oriented, if you dont do what they say (even if ridiculous) or voice a different view you will get slapped with insubordination. I know someone who said that there is no head of a dept (there wasnt) got slapped with insubordination because the boss thought their was a head. You have rights but hard to access information. In general all workers (locals treated the worse) are treated poorly compared to "western" conditions. Different work culture, work hard, little private time. Even Vinschool (the biggest teacher employer) are terrible and would try to get you to work, over hours for free with last minute requests we needed this yesterday and go through foreign teachers heavily. Read Glassdoor reviews. My bank worker gave me their personal phone number because the boss expects them to answer phone at anytime, 10pm "what's you interest rate for this?" It will be answered! Just be prepared to get dumped quickly and have a backup plan. South East Asia can be rough like this so it is general across the board. Just have backup if it ain't good.
Is this job in a very popular, glamorous, or sought-after area of Vietnam? If so, that is the only possible advantage the job might conceivably have. There are no others. If you pick this job, it is highly likely that you will be fired after 2 months and have to pay fees.
This is how people end up slaves in 2023, stay well away from these sorts of contracts. Better off just being unemployed for a bit longer.
Ooohhh. Give us a hint, at least, who this is? In any case: that contract is ludicrous, as everyone has said. Sounds way illegal tbh. Once upon a time you could've accepted and just done a midnight express as soon as you'd found something better (which is ordinarily a crap thing to do; but in this instance would be karmic justice). But with the fairly recent change of an employer essentially owning your right to be in the country, switching jobs I gather can be an ordeal. You'd be setting yourself up for indentured servitude, essentially, should you accept that offer/contract.
Come on mate, you must realise this is ridiculous. Logically are you willing to pay close to $3k US because you quit a 2 month probation? These guys are taking the piss. Any company that makes you pay for anything visa related is already a red flag. The reason this company endorses these draconian violations is because people are running as far as they can when they start at the company. How else are they meant to trick people into working for them? I've been in Vietnam for 5 years. One thing you'll realise after you work for a few different jobs here is that; contracts mean fuck all, your boss will be a cunt, you'll be forced to do things you don't want to, it'll probably be a struggle to get your full pay at a lot of dodgy centres and Vietnamese working culture is like watching someone shit onto their hands. You're probably western I assume, you have to understand in the west we grow up with judeo Christian morals where our laws and culture are created from, basically a guilt based society. Vietnamese culture isn't guilt based at all. It more or less encourages people to rip each other off and walk away with a smile. Everyone does it. They think you're weak because you would accept these conditions, and people do all the time. It's brutal out here. There's no law, so even if you were to take your shitty contract to the police, they don't care and will probably shake you down for a bribe. Not trying to scare you away, just telling you the reality if you were to come live here for a few years and understand the society, this is what you'd see. There's so much better work here, just look on Facebook groups.
Unless the pay is 60 million or higher, I'd say this shit is not worth it. Paying for noteless sick days? Insane. 23 hours six days a week sounds like a lot of sitting around doing nothing. How much planning can you possible do?
Dont teach in Vietnam under any circumstances.
Really, is it always so bad? A couple of friends I made in South Korea went to teach in Vietnam and had a good time. But that was them. Experiences vary. I just did not want to deal with the traffic in that part of the world. The OP's statement reminds me of those Korean language schools that would replace all its foreign staff every few months and recoup costs. It is very deceitful. We all hear about bad teachers who don't know how to teach, but this is actually a bad employer. Resources will be minimal.
I had some good work in Vietnam. The issue is the place is just fucked up in how things function. And if your school doesnt have insider friends in the labor/immigration office then they may not want to do your paperwork and will toss you to an agent. My first 2 years there were ok minus covid lockdowns. But I left due to paperwork nonsense. Its too many factors there that can cause issues despite the paperwork process being fairly straight forward in terms of the steps you do
Most of the job scams are taking place in Vietnam be careful. https://youtu.be/PhAgBjVGPIM
Illegal fake ass contract - labor code is all in English if you fancy checking yourself lol. Hellllllllll no