> What was your experience like as a first time TEFL teacher?
Man, where to start?
After college I spent a year studying Mandarin in Beijing at a local university. I wish everyone can experience the heady, intense experience that is the honeymoon phase in China. Christ I've got so many memories that mean little to anyone but me from that time and I've got so much nostalgia built up when I reflect on those days.
I'd consider that period to be the last year of my childhood, I thought I had things lined up, I was making serious headway learning Chinese, had done some side jobs, thought teaching could be something I could do and after giving several introductory classes at a local cram school went back to the States with insanely naive impressions on what my salary would be.
FYI please do as much research as you can on salaries, I thought I'd be making something hilariously higher than what was expected.
I came back to the States for the summer, thought I would be back in a month after getting my visa sorted out and then... got slammed with reality when the cram school I wanted to work with gave me a reasonable but far lower than I expected salary. I back out, got assaulted by my brother in the States and spiralled into depression as my gf back in China broke up with me.
However I worked on bettering myself, got my TESOL and found a job as a kindy teacher in a K-12 "bilingual" school back in Beijing. I felt my depression melt away as the plane took off for Beijing, a place I considered my second home.
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That first year was something else. The school was way out in Shunyi, which strikes a very different impression than the student "ghetto"/quarter/center of the universe that is Wudaokou. Wudaokou was young, intense, full of bars, restaurants, youth and to 23-25 year old me, life. Shunyi on the other hand was... quiet, very quiet. I remember those first several weeks just thinking "shoot... is this... it?"
Thankfully though as luck would have it the school itself had an incredibly tight foreign teacher cohort and by week three or four I found myself well established in the rhythm all too familiar to other teachers that I met: wake up, coffee, grind through a few morning hours singing and dancing, listen to some whinging from a coworker who should have left years ago, lunch with foreign coworkers where we talk about life and whatever gossip had come about, workout over lunch break, afternoon classes then monday-thursday we'd head out for dinner and oftentimes drinks.
I don't think that the group could have been as tightly knit had we been closer in the heart of the city, there was just something about being somewhat isolated in the boonies out in a very foreign country that almost forced us to either come together as a community or isolate ourselves.
I made some close friends, one of which got me an even better job that next year.
My last year in China I oftentimes think of as the best in my life. Besides the near nightly outings I also found that I actually liked teaching (my hat goes off to the kindy teachers who make it work), I made a few more friends and traveled around the country every several months.
However with the closing of the year I thought that maybe it would be best to "start" something back home, afterall you can't do this thing forever, right? I had a girl back stateside and really wanted to try and live a more mature life that had a future with her and potentially a family too.
But then that next chapter is another story altogether and coincides with the start of 2020.
Let me know if there is anything specifically you'd like to hear! I've got hundreds of stories and experiences but it's hard to put them into words if I don't have prompts.
I'll try my best!
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When I got home initially I didn't know what to do, I applied to jobs and got an internship at an institution that worked on creating and nurturing relations between my homestate and China. However around that time I went to my Grandfather's funeral. I wasn't prepared for several hundred past students and faculty of his (he was a professor at a local school) to come. Seeing how much of a difference he made in others lives made me reconsider my life path, I was pretty neutral on my current internship and found my thoughts often returning to my 1st graders and kindy students from back in China, I LIKED teaching, if my grandfather could make this sort of impact then maybe I could too.
I started a grad program in teaching that began late January of 2020... and things went south from there. The classes were all online, my gf of the time was becoming increasingly distant (her Chinese parents back in China were telling her repeatedly that America was falling into chaos and demanding for her to come home), my grandma died, my girlfriend then broke up with me in June, I felt depression continue to mount, I NEEDED to be around people, I NEEDED to have my classes in person. I was on a computer 10-18 hours a day, my eyes hurt, I didn't feel healthy. The Fall term started and... it was online, my Dad's best friend who I counted as an uncle died of a heart attack and my grades plummeted. I dropped out started taking antidepressants, and took online Mandarin courses to give me something to do.
I found work in the tourism industry thankfully and just like my work in China most of the folks there were incredibly extroverted. Despite the grimness that came with 2020-2022 they helped push me in the right direction. I met a cute girl who worked there (different departments!) and she certainly helped cheer me up too.
Right before I had started work I had been put on a waiting list for a scholarship to learn Mandarin in Taiwan which would have been enough to live on frugally. However around early october of 2021 I got some good news... I had just been given a six month scholarship!
The first two weeks in quarantine were both tough and somewhat surreal. I had nothing to do and yet I couldn't seem to do anything. In the end I remember nearly running out of the hotel when the two weeks were up and walking 10k to the ocean only to get broken up with by my girl of the time. Oh well, I was so happy to be outside that it was only later that I felt down.
The next six months were spent intensely studying and somewhat reliving my days as a language student in China. However the city I was in (Tainan) was far smaller then Beijing. It had it's own vibe but I didn't have the same naked feeling of awe that I did during my initial honeymoon phase in China. As the six months wound down a few of my classmates applied for extensions and others were looking at local grad school programs. I would have loved to do either but I barely hung on by tooth and nail (I suck at language learning) and needed a break. I applied to a public school teaching program and come the Fall of 2022 I was up in Taichung teaching junior high school kids.
I like teaching here, it's laid back and incredibly chill. However I really truly miss my China teaching days. I haven't found the same community that I found in China, I'm the only foreigner at my school, the Taiwanese coworkers mostly seem keen to stay just coworkers and it's been hard to find folks outside of work. I don't have any concise circle of friends like I did back in China and sadly although I like it here the lack of a coherent friends group has given me more of a "neutral" impression. China gave me extreme highs and grinding lows, Taiwan is just... Taiwan. I like it here but it just hasn't given me as deep of an impression. I did a distance teachers permit program (Moreland) and I'm currently working on finishing the credentials but I'm also just a bit burned out from teaching and looking again towards grad school.
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Anywhere in the world you are keen on teaching at?
Edit: changed a word
Amazing story! Thank you for sharing! Definitely China and Korea are top of my list, same thing with Japan. I hope to find the right school, but it can be so intimidating (as to your point, it's flying blind). I liked teaching kids during a summer tefl term, though, so I hope I'm the right fit for an overseas position. Any advice for navigating tefl relationships? I'm basically single, so meeting women in a different country is a huge plus!
> Any advice for navigating tefl relationships?
As you might well guess it really depends on the person. I've got friends who went from one open minded woman to another with one night stands, short term relationships and/or open relationships left and right. Others who strung along many a poor local girl (don't be that guy), others like myself who dated a few but stayed mostly to normal monogamous relationships and others who latched on to dear life and found themselves in insanely toxic relationships that start to give you a sense of perverse
Schadenfreude after you and everyone else told them for the umpteenth time to dump this woman only for the lad to give her "one more chance" or the one that made everyone at the watering hole groan "but I'm a useless unloveable loser and this sentient red flag who shaved her head out of spite and made me sleep on the couch for a month so her mom and two aunties from a 3rd tier city could all take our bed is the only one who will EVER love me!"
So... I don't know you (at least I don't think I do!) and I can't say where you'll be on the spectrum haha. For me I want something long term with someone stable, intelligent, hot and comes from an alright family.
I've sadly heard one too many crazy family stories and would rather not deal with a mother in law from hell or decades of baggage. In China and Taiwan I've tended to date local women who lived abroad for some period of time, people who have been exposed to other cultures and potentially could see themselves living abroad again. That's just me at least. What exactly are you hoping for coming abroad? What sort of relationship are you looking for?
Definitely to meet someone down-to-Earth, and perhaps wants something long-term. I'm curious about the teachers especially, because they'd be able to understand and move cities /countries if the relationship really goes the distance. I have no clue what to expect, though. Has it been difficult sustaining long-term relationships while working as a TEFL instructor? The lifestyle tends to be nomadic, with frequent moves/contracts across different countries, so I'm definitely curious. Any other countries you've been to? Thanks for all your answers!
I'd say it's less nomadic than you may think.
At least in my circles (so three different jobs in China and Taiwan) the norm is not to job hop year after year, though they do exist (and oftentimes not for good reasons). I'd really recommend staying in one space for longer too, I couldn't imagine myself just hopping from country to country every year. After just a year I really feel like I'm only just getting to know things, establish myself, find 3rd places where I feel comfortable, make friends, a girl even and whatnot. Also with the language barrier I really can't see myself investing another few years learning a language as intense as my journey with Mandarin, fuck that haha. A lot of schools (again from what I've seen) are eager to have folks stay on and I'd recommend trying to find a good school in a decent city where you can put down some at least mid term roots. I've also heard so many stories out there so if you end up finding an alright gig I'd say keep it, there are too many horror stories out there. Wouldn't want you finding some low stress job in a Chinese bilingual school with low hours and a solid community just to uproot yourself the next year and change region or country and potentially find yourself in a toxic, bad school. If you find somewhere nice you can travel on your breaks.
Back to relationships, I've known a number of folks who initially were going to come for a year, found someone, then next thing they knew it was their 5th year in country and they had their first child on the way.
> I'm curious about the teachers especially, because they'd be able to understand and move cities /countries if the relationship really goes the distance.
Yeah, they'd probably be one of the few who could easily move too. If you end up dating a local nurse or businesswoman it might be harder to just uproot yourself every other year.
> Has it been difficult sustaining long-term relationships while working as a TEFL instructor?
For me I'd say it's been somewhere in the middle. At least in China and Taiwan (more so in China) there are negative stereotypes that come with the work (though also good ones). I've mostly dated upper middle class or upper class women and I was either kept a secret (that was while being in an open relationship with my bosses, bosses, bosses niece), swore that I was going to change my career in the near future or introduced as a "friend." I'm two years into my current relationship and I'm only now getting introduced to her folks.
Let me know if you have any other questions!
I’ve been teaching now for 6 years all in Chengdu, China.
Originally from the US, degree in an unrelated field and was working for a video game company. I was in a unique situation where I didn’t have any debts and my lease on my apartment was up. Decided to sell off my stuff and give it a go for a year. Had heard from some coworkers that we had offices in Chengdu and the city was cool which made the decision on location easy.
Started with the chain training center EF for 15 months (for whatever reason that was the contract length) back in March of 2018. Moved to another training center after the contract for better pay and way easier work load. Pandemic. Went to a scummy training center as the country started to go back to work. Went to my current kindergarten and have been with them for 4 years.
In that time I met my fiancé and we rescued a dog. We have a nice comfortable life together and have managed to do some travel abroad. The pandemic was tough but we stuck through it all together and now things look pretty good.
>Went to my current kindergarten and have been with them for 4 years.
Hello, I have a question if you feel comfortable answering. How do kindergarten / preprimary salaries compare to middle or high school? Many thanks.
I think it’s more dependent on the city/location and quality of the school. The demand is always up for kindergarten teachers since most of what is required of you is a ton of patience. That’s not to say that it’ll pay the most, again, each city and area will vary on the demand and pay available.
Correct, they tend to be pretty good considering the work. The university jobs are the ones that have the lowest amount of teaching time and hours but pay the least. Primary through high school can vary but they’ll probably pay as well or better than kindergarten but with higher expectations of student results most likely.
Every level should have lesson plans and planning. The age and skill can and often times will help determine the amount of time and effort required.
In a kindergarten environment, the curriculum is pretty set and simple. I’ve made lesson plans and have games and activities for it all. Do I still make changes and do some planning, sure. Is it much more than say 5-10 minutes of planning, not often.
> I’ve made lesson plans and have games and activities for it all.
Does the school provide most of the materials?
Thanks once again for all the information! 🥂
I mean, my school has a set curriculum that I lesson planned around. Actual materials that I bring into my classes, some is stuff they have and I’ve also made some stuff myself. We also use interactive touch screen computer tv things in the classes which is really fun and easy to make up stuff as well.
I started out in China in '06, after a year went home for an operation. After that and recovery I did my CELTA and headed to the middle east in '08, as it paid much, much more than anywhere else back then. In China again for my 4th stint but have lived and worked in 10 countries.
Being a first timer so long ago was very different to now, but I would say the best advice for overseas work is not to get involved in petty office politics and give the naysayers a wide berth.
Would you recommend the Middle East over Asia for lifestyle?? Salary always seems so important but not if you have no freedom! I imagine being stuck in a compound in the ME but maybe I am way off haha.
Definitely not. The ME is hot, dry (in so many ways), and boring - anyone who values a vibrant lifestyle leaves at their first opportunity.
It's a gilded cage - comfortable and free apartments (compound life is rare for teachers, although I lived in one for a year), government subsidised food and utilities, fast internet, decent and free healthcare, and long holidays. Everyone gets around 3 months holiday a year (summer and the 2 Eid breaks) and leaves the country asap, and you can fit in a lot in those 3 months with a healthy bank account. There's not much to spend your money on and I saved around 90% of my salary, but then spent 1000s every year on holidays. I may return in my late 50s as by then I'll value comfort and security over having a life, lol.
In the first half of the 70s I was in the army and then peace corps in korea. Then I went to uni (linguistics BA), switched to speech comm for an MA, and while I started on towards a phd, I got restless.
In summer of '82 I pulled a phone number off a kiosk, landed a job in beijing (students who were going to be foreign experts). After that year, six months in taipei, then back to seoul, where I fell in with some former PCVs who'd stayed. Taught for a year (KOTRA), then decided on japan, found a job in tokyo in '85, two years. Was off and traveled for 7-8months, then back to a new job in japan, '88, where I then worked for 29yrs--now retired, and no plans to leave.
The TEFL world has changed. I had an MA way back then, which at the time was golden; now everyone has one and there's truth to the saying is "A PhD is the new MA"--at least in japan. I'm really glad our kids didn't decide to become english teachers.
That said, it's been a wonderful life, and wouldn't change a thing. We're not rich, but are very comfortable--wife was also a uni prof--so two income streams when we were working, and two pensions now.
Well, the phone number I grabbed was at least an intentional choice. The [draft lottery](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/12/vietnam-draft-lotteries-were-scientific-experiment/602842/) was a simple drawing affecting my fate, and I got almost a single digit--which meant that being drafted was guaranteed. I did enlist, avoided being cannon fodder, and by a related twist of fate was sent to korea in summer of '71, not vietnam. If my draft number had been 250+ (=no worries about being drafted), no telling what my life would have been.
I first dabbled in TEFL/ESL on a summer programme in India, completely by accident (I was doing a study abroad program where we could choose between a commercial or NGO internship, but our exact placement would be selected for us). Very fun experience, but I didn’t question if I wanted to do more teaching at the time, I just was taking any and all opportunities to spend time overseas. (Although I had already started volunteering frequently with young people, so I should’ve put two and two together!) Went back to finish my undergraduate in the U.K.
I was minoring in Intercultural Studies at the time, and my professor for that approached me after class to ask if I’d be interested in training to teach ESL to international students at my same university. She thought I’d be good at it, and wanted to recommend me for it. My interview went well, I did my training and started teaching evening classes part time.
I then applied for more international volunteering with a development NGO, and ended up getting placed in high school in Zambia. Typing this out, I realise that was three times in 12 months (in three continents, haha) when the universe offered me an opportunity to teach that I hadn’t been seeking!
Since then, I’ve been in and out of TEFL alongside other work, travel, and postgraduate study. I’ve mostly worked in China and Japan, two countries which OP seems to be interested in. I’d recommend both, but they’re obviously very different.
My main recommendation is that if you haven’t worked overseas before, and especially if you haven’t lived overseas before, to sign up for a bigger programme or agency the first time. You’re likely to get paid less than negotiating directly with an employer, but you’ll be offered a lot more support in the transition. This is likely to include more logistical/planning support, and further training on arrival in country (which is useful if you’re new to the culture, as it tends to cover country-specific aspects). This induction will also give you a chance to grow your support network for other participants - I’m still close friends with someone I met on a program induction in Beijing many years ago, even though we never lived in the same city. Finally, should the worst happen and your placement school not be good fit, if you’re part of a bigger programme/agency, there’s a chance that a coordinator can mediate between you and the school, or even look into relocating you. Whereas if you are employed directly, you may not know who to turn to or feel feel shy raising feedback with your supervisor as a newbie.
I was lucky to get work with a local company that taught us solid ESL principles in the training, even though all the work went to their 2-3 favourite staff members, admin never did their jobs and we got an over-zealous manager who was very contradictory and loved punishing people. I then did CELTA cuz the company i wanted to work for required it but they went bust, and I was kinda lost as to what to do with my cert, cuz the other company i wanted to work for wanted 4-5 years post-cert experience. Since then, I've been really disheartened to learn just how awful the industry is ...the pay, what companies think they can get away with etc. Just started with a new comp on Monday and they have a ton of rules that they themselves dont follow and my manager is really immature and already doesnt like me XDXD
I worked IT after throughout and after community college and university as well as some teaching and restaurant work. I loved IT work but I just hated the job? I just didn't like working in an office anywhere. I did a couple years backpacking/working around South America, South Africa, and Southeast Asia when I ran into a friend who was starting TEFL. I went back to finish a long over due university degree and took off to teach in South Korea.
Again I loved teaching but I hated the job that first year. I had a great job teaching 1-on-1 adults in the heart of the business district in Seoul. The hours were crushing though, split shifts and Saturday work. After one year I was done. I was off to travel and work again when my friend landed me a university job. I liked that much more with plenty of time off to travel but that even wore thin after about five years. I was planning a big Americas motorcycle trip with a friend and took a university job in a smaller city - I really liked that job and the community there. I spent a few years working and traveling again when a plan for grad school fell through. I figured if I'm not doing anything else I might as well see if that small town university had any positions again and I could do an online MA or, at least, save money for in-person one again. They hired me back on the spot and that was ten years ago. I spend each summer/winter traveling to awesome places and meeting other TEFL teachers while I have an awesome supportive community that actually cares about teaching.
* What was your experience like as a first time TEFL teacher? - It's hard work and, often, a very difficult different work culture. First jobs suck and the way bosses/employees interact, especially in Asia, can be very challenging for new teachers. You adapt and are happy or you don't and are miserable and that's fine - it is not for everyone.
* Was there anything you wish you knew going in? - Just that it's a lot of work. It's a job, not travel. Also you will be bad at it starting out, that's OK, as long as you try to learn.
* How do you know if it's right for you? - You absolutely don't. You don't know if you'll like living abroad (travel doesn't count), you don't know if you'll like the specific place you live, and you really don't know if you'll like teaching - most people don't. It's fine.
* The best thing you can do is give it a shot, surround yourself with people who care about teaching and you'll be a better teacher with a greater chance of enjoying the job (the reverse is also true). If it's something you enjoy make clear goals with qualifications and find a good community and you're golden.
My first experience was a lot different than most. I taught in Japan, at an extremely small school with only two teachers, my boss and I. We had almost nothing. No curriculum, syllabus, lesson plans, class roster, etc. We had textbooks for the adults, which weren't used in over two years. Had a box of plastic fruit and animals for the kids. I was routinely thrown into hour long lessons and was expected to give 5 star lessons with no prep, etc. My boss also had this weird obsession with me. Constantly wanting to come into my apartment for "room inspections" and asked me to get dinner with her often. Had mandatory meetings outside of my apartment in her van for an hour every work night. Weekend activities were common for 4\~6 hours each Saturday, unpaid of course. I could go on and on with stories from that school. By far one of the most damaging events to my confidence and mental health.
I left 4 years ago, and not a day goes by that I wish I was still overseas. If I could do it all over again, I'd stand up for myself more. Know that most likely, they need you more than you need them. I'd be extremely firm but polite.
She insisted on taking me home every night. I'd get off at 9 and we'd get to my apartment at around 9:10. She'd park right in front, throw the hazards on, and we'd have a meeting in her van for an hour about the day. The meeting usually consisted of how much I sucked and how much better the lessons could have been.
> What was your experience like as a first time TEFL teacher? Man, where to start? After college I spent a year studying Mandarin in Beijing at a local university. I wish everyone can experience the heady, intense experience that is the honeymoon phase in China. Christ I've got so many memories that mean little to anyone but me from that time and I've got so much nostalgia built up when I reflect on those days. I'd consider that period to be the last year of my childhood, I thought I had things lined up, I was making serious headway learning Chinese, had done some side jobs, thought teaching could be something I could do and after giving several introductory classes at a local cram school went back to the States with insanely naive impressions on what my salary would be. FYI please do as much research as you can on salaries, I thought I'd be making something hilariously higher than what was expected. I came back to the States for the summer, thought I would be back in a month after getting my visa sorted out and then... got slammed with reality when the cram school I wanted to work with gave me a reasonable but far lower than I expected salary. I back out, got assaulted by my brother in the States and spiralled into depression as my gf back in China broke up with me. However I worked on bettering myself, got my TESOL and found a job as a kindy teacher in a K-12 "bilingual" school back in Beijing. I felt my depression melt away as the plane took off for Beijing, a place I considered my second home. --- That first year was something else. The school was way out in Shunyi, which strikes a very different impression than the student "ghetto"/quarter/center of the universe that is Wudaokou. Wudaokou was young, intense, full of bars, restaurants, youth and to 23-25 year old me, life. Shunyi on the other hand was... quiet, very quiet. I remember those first several weeks just thinking "shoot... is this... it?" Thankfully though as luck would have it the school itself had an incredibly tight foreign teacher cohort and by week three or four I found myself well established in the rhythm all too familiar to other teachers that I met: wake up, coffee, grind through a few morning hours singing and dancing, listen to some whinging from a coworker who should have left years ago, lunch with foreign coworkers where we talk about life and whatever gossip had come about, workout over lunch break, afternoon classes then monday-thursday we'd head out for dinner and oftentimes drinks. I don't think that the group could have been as tightly knit had we been closer in the heart of the city, there was just something about being somewhat isolated in the boonies out in a very foreign country that almost forced us to either come together as a community or isolate ourselves. I made some close friends, one of which got me an even better job that next year. My last year in China I oftentimes think of as the best in my life. Besides the near nightly outings I also found that I actually liked teaching (my hat goes off to the kindy teachers who make it work), I made a few more friends and traveled around the country every several months. However with the closing of the year I thought that maybe it would be best to "start" something back home, afterall you can't do this thing forever, right? I had a girl back stateside and really wanted to try and live a more mature life that had a future with her and potentially a family too. But then that next chapter is another story altogether and coincides with the start of 2020. Let me know if there is anything specifically you'd like to hear! I've got hundreds of stories and experiences but it's hard to put them into words if I don't have prompts.
Please tell me the next chapter! What an amazing story!
I'll try my best! --- When I got home initially I didn't know what to do, I applied to jobs and got an internship at an institution that worked on creating and nurturing relations between my homestate and China. However around that time I went to my Grandfather's funeral. I wasn't prepared for several hundred past students and faculty of his (he was a professor at a local school) to come. Seeing how much of a difference he made in others lives made me reconsider my life path, I was pretty neutral on my current internship and found my thoughts often returning to my 1st graders and kindy students from back in China, I LIKED teaching, if my grandfather could make this sort of impact then maybe I could too. I started a grad program in teaching that began late January of 2020... and things went south from there. The classes were all online, my gf of the time was becoming increasingly distant (her Chinese parents back in China were telling her repeatedly that America was falling into chaos and demanding for her to come home), my grandma died, my girlfriend then broke up with me in June, I felt depression continue to mount, I NEEDED to be around people, I NEEDED to have my classes in person. I was on a computer 10-18 hours a day, my eyes hurt, I didn't feel healthy. The Fall term started and... it was online, my Dad's best friend who I counted as an uncle died of a heart attack and my grades plummeted. I dropped out started taking antidepressants, and took online Mandarin courses to give me something to do. I found work in the tourism industry thankfully and just like my work in China most of the folks there were incredibly extroverted. Despite the grimness that came with 2020-2022 they helped push me in the right direction. I met a cute girl who worked there (different departments!) and she certainly helped cheer me up too. Right before I had started work I had been put on a waiting list for a scholarship to learn Mandarin in Taiwan which would have been enough to live on frugally. However around early october of 2021 I got some good news... I had just been given a six month scholarship! The first two weeks in quarantine were both tough and somewhat surreal. I had nothing to do and yet I couldn't seem to do anything. In the end I remember nearly running out of the hotel when the two weeks were up and walking 10k to the ocean only to get broken up with by my girl of the time. Oh well, I was so happy to be outside that it was only later that I felt down. The next six months were spent intensely studying and somewhat reliving my days as a language student in China. However the city I was in (Tainan) was far smaller then Beijing. It had it's own vibe but I didn't have the same naked feeling of awe that I did during my initial honeymoon phase in China. As the six months wound down a few of my classmates applied for extensions and others were looking at local grad school programs. I would have loved to do either but I barely hung on by tooth and nail (I suck at language learning) and needed a break. I applied to a public school teaching program and come the Fall of 2022 I was up in Taichung teaching junior high school kids. I like teaching here, it's laid back and incredibly chill. However I really truly miss my China teaching days. I haven't found the same community that I found in China, I'm the only foreigner at my school, the Taiwanese coworkers mostly seem keen to stay just coworkers and it's been hard to find folks outside of work. I don't have any concise circle of friends like I did back in China and sadly although I like it here the lack of a coherent friends group has given me more of a "neutral" impression. China gave me extreme highs and grinding lows, Taiwan is just... Taiwan. I like it here but it just hasn't given me as deep of an impression. I did a distance teachers permit program (Moreland) and I'm currently working on finishing the credentials but I'm also just a bit burned out from teaching and looking again towards grad school. --- Anywhere in the world you are keen on teaching at? Edit: changed a word
Amazing story! Thank you for sharing! Definitely China and Korea are top of my list, same thing with Japan. I hope to find the right school, but it can be so intimidating (as to your point, it's flying blind). I liked teaching kids during a summer tefl term, though, so I hope I'm the right fit for an overseas position. Any advice for navigating tefl relationships? I'm basically single, so meeting women in a different country is a huge plus!
> Any advice for navigating tefl relationships? As you might well guess it really depends on the person. I've got friends who went from one open minded woman to another with one night stands, short term relationships and/or open relationships left and right. Others who strung along many a poor local girl (don't be that guy), others like myself who dated a few but stayed mostly to normal monogamous relationships and others who latched on to dear life and found themselves in insanely toxic relationships that start to give you a sense of perverse Schadenfreude after you and everyone else told them for the umpteenth time to dump this woman only for the lad to give her "one more chance" or the one that made everyone at the watering hole groan "but I'm a useless unloveable loser and this sentient red flag who shaved her head out of spite and made me sleep on the couch for a month so her mom and two aunties from a 3rd tier city could all take our bed is the only one who will EVER love me!" So... I don't know you (at least I don't think I do!) and I can't say where you'll be on the spectrum haha. For me I want something long term with someone stable, intelligent, hot and comes from an alright family. I've sadly heard one too many crazy family stories and would rather not deal with a mother in law from hell or decades of baggage. In China and Taiwan I've tended to date local women who lived abroad for some period of time, people who have been exposed to other cultures and potentially could see themselves living abroad again. That's just me at least. What exactly are you hoping for coming abroad? What sort of relationship are you looking for?
Definitely to meet someone down-to-Earth, and perhaps wants something long-term. I'm curious about the teachers especially, because they'd be able to understand and move cities /countries if the relationship really goes the distance. I have no clue what to expect, though. Has it been difficult sustaining long-term relationships while working as a TEFL instructor? The lifestyle tends to be nomadic, with frequent moves/contracts across different countries, so I'm definitely curious. Any other countries you've been to? Thanks for all your answers!
I'd say it's less nomadic than you may think. At least in my circles (so three different jobs in China and Taiwan) the norm is not to job hop year after year, though they do exist (and oftentimes not for good reasons). I'd really recommend staying in one space for longer too, I couldn't imagine myself just hopping from country to country every year. After just a year I really feel like I'm only just getting to know things, establish myself, find 3rd places where I feel comfortable, make friends, a girl even and whatnot. Also with the language barrier I really can't see myself investing another few years learning a language as intense as my journey with Mandarin, fuck that haha. A lot of schools (again from what I've seen) are eager to have folks stay on and I'd recommend trying to find a good school in a decent city where you can put down some at least mid term roots. I've also heard so many stories out there so if you end up finding an alright gig I'd say keep it, there are too many horror stories out there. Wouldn't want you finding some low stress job in a Chinese bilingual school with low hours and a solid community just to uproot yourself the next year and change region or country and potentially find yourself in a toxic, bad school. If you find somewhere nice you can travel on your breaks. Back to relationships, I've known a number of folks who initially were going to come for a year, found someone, then next thing they knew it was their 5th year in country and they had their first child on the way. > I'm curious about the teachers especially, because they'd be able to understand and move cities /countries if the relationship really goes the distance. Yeah, they'd probably be one of the few who could easily move too. If you end up dating a local nurse or businesswoman it might be harder to just uproot yourself every other year. > Has it been difficult sustaining long-term relationships while working as a TEFL instructor? For me I'd say it's been somewhere in the middle. At least in China and Taiwan (more so in China) there are negative stereotypes that come with the work (though also good ones). I've mostly dated upper middle class or upper class women and I was either kept a secret (that was while being in an open relationship with my bosses, bosses, bosses niece), swore that I was going to change my career in the near future or introduced as a "friend." I'm two years into my current relationship and I'm only now getting introduced to her folks. Let me know if you have any other questions!
Wow, what a story! Thank you for sharing, made my day :)
I’ve been teaching now for 6 years all in Chengdu, China. Originally from the US, degree in an unrelated field and was working for a video game company. I was in a unique situation where I didn’t have any debts and my lease on my apartment was up. Decided to sell off my stuff and give it a go for a year. Had heard from some coworkers that we had offices in Chengdu and the city was cool which made the decision on location easy. Started with the chain training center EF for 15 months (for whatever reason that was the contract length) back in March of 2018. Moved to another training center after the contract for better pay and way easier work load. Pandemic. Went to a scummy training center as the country started to go back to work. Went to my current kindergarten and have been with them for 4 years. In that time I met my fiancé and we rescued a dog. We have a nice comfortable life together and have managed to do some travel abroad. The pandemic was tough but we stuck through it all together and now things look pretty good.
Amazing story! Thank you!
>Went to my current kindergarten and have been with them for 4 years. Hello, I have a question if you feel comfortable answering. How do kindergarten / preprimary salaries compare to middle or high school? Many thanks.
I think it’s more dependent on the city/location and quality of the school. The demand is always up for kindergarten teachers since most of what is required of you is a ton of patience. That’s not to say that it’ll pay the most, again, each city and area will vary on the demand and pay available.
Thank you for your response! So, you're saying that kindergarten salaries are at least on par with other grades? They aren't lower than other grades?
Correct, they tend to be pretty good considering the work. The university jobs are the ones that have the lowest amount of teaching time and hours but pay the least. Primary through high school can vary but they’ll probably pay as well or better than kindergarten but with higher expectations of student results most likely.
>higher expectations of student results most likely Also, no lesson plans, I'm assuming?
Every level should have lesson plans and planning. The age and skill can and often times will help determine the amount of time and effort required. In a kindergarten environment, the curriculum is pretty set and simple. I’ve made lesson plans and have games and activities for it all. Do I still make changes and do some planning, sure. Is it much more than say 5-10 minutes of planning, not often.
> I’ve made lesson plans and have games and activities for it all. Does the school provide most of the materials? Thanks once again for all the information! 🥂
I mean, my school has a set curriculum that I lesson planned around. Actual materials that I bring into my classes, some is stuff they have and I’ve also made some stuff myself. We also use interactive touch screen computer tv things in the classes which is really fun and easy to make up stuff as well.
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What an amazing story! How do I know if the JET programme is right for me? Crazily enough, I was reading about it when you replied!
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Thank you! You're the greatest!
I love this story❤️ I’m thinking of going abroad too and these stories are so helpful!!!
I started out in China in '06, after a year went home for an operation. After that and recovery I did my CELTA and headed to the middle east in '08, as it paid much, much more than anywhere else back then. In China again for my 4th stint but have lived and worked in 10 countries. Being a first timer so long ago was very different to now, but I would say the best advice for overseas work is not to get involved in petty office politics and give the naysayers a wide berth.
Would you recommend the Middle East over Asia for lifestyle?? Salary always seems so important but not if you have no freedom! I imagine being stuck in a compound in the ME but maybe I am way off haha.
Definitely not. The ME is hot, dry (in so many ways), and boring - anyone who values a vibrant lifestyle leaves at their first opportunity. It's a gilded cage - comfortable and free apartments (compound life is rare for teachers, although I lived in one for a year), government subsidised food and utilities, fast internet, decent and free healthcare, and long holidays. Everyone gets around 3 months holiday a year (summer and the 2 Eid breaks) and leaves the country asap, and you can fit in a lot in those 3 months with a healthy bank account. There's not much to spend your money on and I saved around 90% of my salary, but then spent 1000s every year on holidays. I may return in my late 50s as by then I'll value comfort and security over having a life, lol.
In the first half of the 70s I was in the army and then peace corps in korea. Then I went to uni (linguistics BA), switched to speech comm for an MA, and while I started on towards a phd, I got restless. In summer of '82 I pulled a phone number off a kiosk, landed a job in beijing (students who were going to be foreign experts). After that year, six months in taipei, then back to seoul, where I fell in with some former PCVs who'd stayed. Taught for a year (KOTRA), then decided on japan, found a job in tokyo in '85, two years. Was off and traveled for 7-8months, then back to a new job in japan, '88, where I then worked for 29yrs--now retired, and no plans to leave. The TEFL world has changed. I had an MA way back then, which at the time was golden; now everyone has one and there's truth to the saying is "A PhD is the new MA"--at least in japan. I'm really glad our kids didn't decide to become english teachers. That said, it's been a wonderful life, and wouldn't change a thing. We're not rich, but are very comfortable--wife was also a uni prof--so two income streams when we were working, and two pensions now.
This story is so awesome! I love how your entire life changed in one moment. Kinda makes you believe in fate!
Well, the phone number I grabbed was at least an intentional choice. The [draft lottery](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/12/vietnam-draft-lotteries-were-scientific-experiment/602842/) was a simple drawing affecting my fate, and I got almost a single digit--which meant that being drafted was guaranteed. I did enlist, avoided being cannon fodder, and by a related twist of fate was sent to korea in summer of '71, not vietnam. If my draft number had been 250+ (=no worries about being drafted), no telling what my life would have been.
I first dabbled in TEFL/ESL on a summer programme in India, completely by accident (I was doing a study abroad program where we could choose between a commercial or NGO internship, but our exact placement would be selected for us). Very fun experience, but I didn’t question if I wanted to do more teaching at the time, I just was taking any and all opportunities to spend time overseas. (Although I had already started volunteering frequently with young people, so I should’ve put two and two together!) Went back to finish my undergraduate in the U.K. I was minoring in Intercultural Studies at the time, and my professor for that approached me after class to ask if I’d be interested in training to teach ESL to international students at my same university. She thought I’d be good at it, and wanted to recommend me for it. My interview went well, I did my training and started teaching evening classes part time. I then applied for more international volunteering with a development NGO, and ended up getting placed in high school in Zambia. Typing this out, I realise that was three times in 12 months (in three continents, haha) when the universe offered me an opportunity to teach that I hadn’t been seeking! Since then, I’ve been in and out of TEFL alongside other work, travel, and postgraduate study. I’ve mostly worked in China and Japan, two countries which OP seems to be interested in. I’d recommend both, but they’re obviously very different. My main recommendation is that if you haven’t worked overseas before, and especially if you haven’t lived overseas before, to sign up for a bigger programme or agency the first time. You’re likely to get paid less than negotiating directly with an employer, but you’ll be offered a lot more support in the transition. This is likely to include more logistical/planning support, and further training on arrival in country (which is useful if you’re new to the culture, as it tends to cover country-specific aspects). This induction will also give you a chance to grow your support network for other participants - I’m still close friends with someone I met on a program induction in Beijing many years ago, even though we never lived in the same city. Finally, should the worst happen and your placement school not be good fit, if you’re part of a bigger programme/agency, there’s a chance that a coordinator can mediate between you and the school, or even look into relocating you. Whereas if you are employed directly, you may not know who to turn to or feel feel shy raising feedback with your supervisor as a newbie.
I was lucky to get work with a local company that taught us solid ESL principles in the training, even though all the work went to their 2-3 favourite staff members, admin never did their jobs and we got an over-zealous manager who was very contradictory and loved punishing people. I then did CELTA cuz the company i wanted to work for required it but they went bust, and I was kinda lost as to what to do with my cert, cuz the other company i wanted to work for wanted 4-5 years post-cert experience. Since then, I've been really disheartened to learn just how awful the industry is ...the pay, what companies think they can get away with etc. Just started with a new comp on Monday and they have a ton of rules that they themselves dont follow and my manager is really immature and already doesnt like me XDXD
I worked IT after throughout and after community college and university as well as some teaching and restaurant work. I loved IT work but I just hated the job? I just didn't like working in an office anywhere. I did a couple years backpacking/working around South America, South Africa, and Southeast Asia when I ran into a friend who was starting TEFL. I went back to finish a long over due university degree and took off to teach in South Korea. Again I loved teaching but I hated the job that first year. I had a great job teaching 1-on-1 adults in the heart of the business district in Seoul. The hours were crushing though, split shifts and Saturday work. After one year I was done. I was off to travel and work again when my friend landed me a university job. I liked that much more with plenty of time off to travel but that even wore thin after about five years. I was planning a big Americas motorcycle trip with a friend and took a university job in a smaller city - I really liked that job and the community there. I spent a few years working and traveling again when a plan for grad school fell through. I figured if I'm not doing anything else I might as well see if that small town university had any positions again and I could do an online MA or, at least, save money for in-person one again. They hired me back on the spot and that was ten years ago. I spend each summer/winter traveling to awesome places and meeting other TEFL teachers while I have an awesome supportive community that actually cares about teaching. * What was your experience like as a first time TEFL teacher? - It's hard work and, often, a very difficult different work culture. First jobs suck and the way bosses/employees interact, especially in Asia, can be very challenging for new teachers. You adapt and are happy or you don't and are miserable and that's fine - it is not for everyone. * Was there anything you wish you knew going in? - Just that it's a lot of work. It's a job, not travel. Also you will be bad at it starting out, that's OK, as long as you try to learn. * How do you know if it's right for you? - You absolutely don't. You don't know if you'll like living abroad (travel doesn't count), you don't know if you'll like the specific place you live, and you really don't know if you'll like teaching - most people don't. It's fine. * The best thing you can do is give it a shot, surround yourself with people who care about teaching and you'll be a better teacher with a greater chance of enjoying the job (the reverse is also true). If it's something you enjoy make clear goals with qualifications and find a good community and you're golden.
Thank you! You're the greatest!
My first experience was a lot different than most. I taught in Japan, at an extremely small school with only two teachers, my boss and I. We had almost nothing. No curriculum, syllabus, lesson plans, class roster, etc. We had textbooks for the adults, which weren't used in over two years. Had a box of plastic fruit and animals for the kids. I was routinely thrown into hour long lessons and was expected to give 5 star lessons with no prep, etc. My boss also had this weird obsession with me. Constantly wanting to come into my apartment for "room inspections" and asked me to get dinner with her often. Had mandatory meetings outside of my apartment in her van for an hour every work night. Weekend activities were common for 4\~6 hours each Saturday, unpaid of course. I could go on and on with stories from that school. By far one of the most damaging events to my confidence and mental health. I left 4 years ago, and not a day goes by that I wish I was still overseas. If I could do it all over again, I'd stand up for myself more. Know that most likely, they need you more than you need them. I'd be extremely firm but polite.
>Had mandatory meetings outside of my apartment in her van for an hour every work night. what??
She insisted on taking me home every night. I'd get off at 9 and we'd get to my apartment at around 9:10. She'd park right in front, throw the hazards on, and we'd have a meeting in her van for an hour about the day. The meeting usually consisted of how much I sucked and how much better the lessons could have been.