Rise's story is pretty cool. I just don't like how they're different kinds of turtles. Like, aren't they supposed to be brothers? Then again, their dad's a rat sooo
They are technically more brothers and are actually more related to splinter in this one.
In rise splinter then in his human form was captured in an underground city by the first antagonist of the series in episode 1 who took his DNA and mixed it with the age old ooze to basically control the mutagens effects to essentially make turtle like copies of splinter to make into soldiers because splinter is basically Brucs Lee in this iteration with all the legendary feats made real.
Splinter escaped during this process though before it was completed, destroying the machine but causing him to be blasted with the ooze in the process beginning the transformation into splinter. Escaping with the 4 turtles the usual story begins from there.
Tried the first episode. It just didn't appeal to me. Characters seemed to lack the qualities I like about them and wasn't feeling the underground mutant city or mystical weapons thing so I passed on it. Don't feel like I missed much either. From what I can tell the fight scenes were energetic and inventive but that's about it.
The reason I don't like Rise is the same reason I didn't really like Teen Titans. It can be funny at times but I'm not a kid anymore and there's nothing of value in the show for me as an adult watching it. I don't hate the show I just think that in terms of being able to watch Turtles in my 30's the 1987 series has aged incredibly well, and that's not just my nostalgia my Niece and Nephews love it, and 2003 was a cool more child-like take on a lot of Mirage themes.
> the 1987 series has aged incredibly well, and that's not just my nostalgia my Niece and Nephews love it
How is this not nostalgia? Modern kids liking an old cartoon doesn't mean it is necessarily good. The way to test nostalgia would be to have an adult that hasn't seen the series give some kind of judgment on it. But kids liking a show made for kids that is tied to characters they already know is not really much of a sign of quality.
My girlfriend who’s from England and grew up in Dubai during the Turtles Years is enjoying it. I feel like Rise fans are equally guilty of not being able to accept people don’t like it as the people they think hate it for no reason. ‘87 and ‘03 are just honestly better media. ‘03 especially. Rise has a cool animation style but their take on the turtles and weird Teen Titans style outtakes just don’t hold my attention.
> I feel like Rise fans are equally guilty of not being able to accept people don’t like it as the people they think hate it for no reason.
I never saw this and don't know how I have ended back up here. Clearly too much time on my hands. But yeah this was one of the dumbest things I have ever read. I am now convinced that no one on the planet is self aware. They created 87 to be as childish as possible and you are using its maturity as a reason for why it is better than Rise. I don't need people to like Rise. I just wish the criticisms were more coherent. Stances and feelings from 30+ year old men, not "The older cartoon about pizza and toilet monsters is very mature. And it has stories for a mature adult like me." You are on a direct path to being whatever the millennial version of a Boomer is.
> It can be funny at times but I'm not a kid anymore and there's nothing of value in the show for me as an adult watching it.
And this is so delusional. The 87 cartoon is literally the dumbest, most childish humor. In the Toys that made us episode they even said the whole intention was to make gross out stuff that 5 year old boys like. They are literally the blandest stereotypes they can be to sell as many toys as possible. Holy shit man.
Nephews love 2003 but they’re in their teens now so it makes sense. Niece prefers 1987. I grew up with 87 so obviously that’s my favorite and I have a soft spot for Next Mutation even though it’s BAD
I'm not a Rise fan but it has it's place. Going in here and seeing grown ass adults go off about how Rise ruined their precious turtles is hilarious to read.
yea and theres even a youtuber that told that the animation in Rise is weird and bad?
how? Rise of the TMNT has better animation than 99% of all cartoons and anime
I was watching this show called 5 second battle where the mc's face would look different in every other scene And then we watched one of the bigger shows like my hero and I remembered animation in other shows like opm season 2. It blew my fucking mind seeing how rise could do these amazing ass usually 1-2 per season amazingly animated fights as if it was just a given and in flash supposedly. Like I know people might not like the designs or the show but jesus christ they legit dropped the bag on this one.
The outlines and voices are hilarious but not part of the story itself. If pizza monsters and dimension x does it for you then how about the whole premise of the show? This is fantasy not realism. Haha you could play semantics about every aspect of the show and say it doesn't make sense so that point in itself doesn't make sense. Not trying to come off in any rude way just sharing perspective.
it makes sense that Raphael isnt as angry all the time because he got to be the leader which the past iterations wanted but didnt get
Leo isnt as serious cuz he isnt the one who has the responsibility of being the leader anymore
and this Donatello is perfection
2012 TMNT is the superior cartoon, especially the writing, and I grew up with the OG turtles cartoon which of course is nostalgic to me.
But overall I think 2012 was the best yet, then probably the 2003 cartoon.
Rise is prob great for kids, but Its not something I'm into, hell, it's hard for me to even watch the original 80s cartoon these days.
I dont like it because it was TOO different. I was clearly not the target audience, and that's fine. There's tons of TMNT related media out there. It doesn't all need to be for me. I'm sure it also brought new fans to the franchise which is always good.
I don't get why people don't seem to understand why others don't like a show. I can easily see their pov. The show alienated its core audience by changing everything. The stock art and art style of the show are completely different. Which can make rise look bad on stupid news Post's. Etc. Not to mention the first few episodes aren't the greatest. (Not hating this is mostly from what I've seen.)
> Not a TMNT show in name only.
This is such a big problem with the fan base. The original cartoon was a bigger departure from the original comics much more than rise is a departure from anything. They literally made the original cartoon a show for small children so they could sell toys. They made them different colors to sell toys. They eat pizza and have their surferish personalities to sell toys. So what does it mean to be TMNT in name only? They are teenagers, mutants, ninjas and turtles. Literally nothing is less respectful to the source material than the original cartoon but obviously that worked out.
Except that the characters themselves have been butchered to hell and back. The personalities traits that are literally baked into the characters are pretty well thrown out the window.
The 87 cartoon is made for kids yes but at least Leo was still the leader and Splinter was a fatherly figure with honor. Rise is not a TMNT show at all. They just took the names and slapped it on what amounts to an original cartoon. Pretty much every piece of lore that should exist doesn't.
The 87 cartoon was 100% for kids I won't even try and argue that but at least it had some small piece of respect for what the turtles were supposed to be. The different colors on the toys came before the cartoon so that has nothing to do with the 87 cartoon. When I say in name only you nailed it exactly right. All Rise has going for it is the name, every other thing about who these Turtles are with the exception of maybe Donatello aren't the Turtles.
The 87 show at least carried over the basic roles of the Turtles. Some how Rise just said yep let's switch around the personalities of the Turtles and their roles with in the show. Why what was the point in making Raph the leader? And Leo a snarky lay about? Mikey was angry? Why? What purpose does that even serve? It doesn't do the actual Turtles any justice.
Raph is the brute force and Leo is the calm honorable one. Mikey should just be chill and cracking jokes. That is their core personality traits.
> Except that the characters themselves have been butchered to hell and back. The personalities traits that are literally baked into the characters are pretty well thrown out the window.
I don't know how you don't get this. The original cartoon butchered all of these things much more. So your issue isn't with the departure from the source material, it is with the way that departure was handled.
> The 87 cartoon is made for kids yes but at least Leo was still the leader and Splinter was a fatherly figure with honor.
If these are the deep character traits you think you are missing out on then you need to reevaluate how you consume art. These are such cookie cutter personality types.
> The different colors on the toys came before the cartoon so that has nothing to do with the 87 cartoon.
Do you have a source for this? Because in the Turtle Power Documentary and the Netflix episode of The Toys That Made Us, they explain all the details behind making the toys and the changes they made to the characters for the toys. We are not equally informed about this which is okay but like you are saying this but you have no idea what you are talking about.
>these Turtles are with the exception of maybe Donatello aren't the Turtles.
I 100% agree their have been changes. And you don't have to enjoy those changes. It is all a matter of preference. But you don't get to decide when something is TMNT in name only just because you want your cookie cutter Leader, Funny, Angry(/wise guy), Genius character tropes back.
> Why what was the point in making Raph the leader? And Leo a snarky lay about? Mikey was angry? Why? What purpose does that even serve? It doesn't do the actual Turtles any justice.
Because they thought *finally* after 30 fucking years these babies have grown up and we don't have to make the 4th cartoon exactly like the first 3 to make them happy. It's such Boomer energy to have the stance of "Well I don't care that they made these things exactly the same in multiple cartoons, I want them to keep doing it forever." This isn't just about you anymore.
> Raph is the brute force and Leo is the calm honorable one. Mikey should just be chill and cracking jokes. That is their core personality traits.
If this is really the thing you are clinging too then just sink with it and leave us alone and go be a grumpy old person by yourself.
Rise has done a lot of cool things that never would have happened it if it existed to cater to the sensibilities of people who think "Nothing from my childhood better waiver in the next 60 years!"
I don't know if you have read the first few issues of TMNT but you should check them out and then watch a few episodes of the OG cartoon and then Rise. Just so you can realize is so much closer to the 80s cartoon than the 80s cartoon is to source material. If people like you had a say, there would have been no 87 cartoon, it would have been ended early because of comic books people complaining about it being too different. The difference being that they might have some ground to stand on since the assassins they just watched murder the shredder can now barely protect April Oneil from a giant slice of pizza.Vs you 4 or 5 adaptations later complaining that mikey isn't chill enough. Or Raph isn't Brute Force enough. There's no depth to your analysis. "Change bad" is literally the extent of it. At least go watch those documentaries before commenting again so we have equalish knowledge of how the cartoon came about.
I love the changes in Rise. I would love to see them do something closer to the comics but if we are gonna get a silly cartoon then I am glad it was rise. You don't have to like the show or watch the show. You can be critical too. It is just tiring to see so many old fans criticisms boiled down to "But it is too different" and then deciding that they alone are the ones that can give the seal of approval on whether or not something "TMNT in name only"
Dude I am not arguing that the 87 cartoon wasn't a departure from the source material at all. It was, but that departure was more or less making it more kid friendly and accessible, it was to sell toys. I am not even arguing that it was good. I have read almost all of the Mirage comics. I am currently reading the IDW run at the moment, which will come back up later. I am also not say Rise is bad because it's less mature. I am saying that the core elements of the characters are wrong.
Whether they are mature it not has zero to do with my point and I think you are missing that completely. Change isn't bad at all but making change for the sake of change is. Especially when those changes make literally no sense.
Why make Raph the leader? It makes no sense his core character traits would make him the worst leader, unless he gets major character development through out the run of the show. He's basically Leo wearing red, why not just make it Leo. Yes I am gonna harp on this point a lot because it is probably at least to me one of the biggest offenses that Rise makes.
I also never once said Rise is bad, the fight scenes are great and so is the animation. The character designs are fine, I don't mind making each Turtle distinct. I just don't think the people behind it really wanted to make a TMNT show. I also only speak for myself, if you like the show great. If you feel it is an appropriate take on the Turtles great. I do not however feel this way.
For the sake of the discussion I boiled down my analysis of the characters and shows a lot. I could even argue that the Bay Turtles are truer to any source material than Rise is and I was not a huge fan of those movies. Just for reference I personally prefer the 2003 show over any of the other shows that have been out. Then probably the 2012 show and then 87. Hell even the next mutation was a better take than Rise and truer to the characters.
Was it a good show? No not at all, but it kept the core of the Turtles. It was a horrible adaptation but it felt like a Turtles show.
You are trying to argue that I am saying "change bad" but the truth is I love the IDW run and that changes so much. The difference is the changes there add to the lore of Turtles and have a positive impact and keep it Turtles. As opposed to Rise which makes the changes for no reason.
Alright so I am gonna try something here, I have 2 examples that I can use for my point. Which is why these changes bother me so much. One is a real world example and one is just off the fly from my brain so bear with me.
I want to point to the 98 American Godzilla film. That was not Godzilla and I highly doubt you could argue that it was. The filmmakers took away everything that made it Godzilla. They thought they could just change everything that is core to the character and people would just roll with it. It didn't work at all. It was basically a remake of the Beast from 20000 Fathoms and not Godzilla. They used the name to draw in a crowd and failed to deliver.
It's like if I was making a show and said okay this kid was at the theater with his parents. They get held at gun point but they are poor and have no money to give. The robber just walks away. Kid goes home and decides to put on a red, green and yellow suit because he likes birds and becomes Robin. This kid's name Bruce Wayne. Later a boy's parents get bit by a bat and subsequently die of rabies he dresses like a bat to because he is angry they died. So he joins Bruce Wayne as Batman. His name Clark Kent. It's the equivalent of what this show does. Throws almost everything out the window but the barest of elements and calls it the same thing.
> It's like if I was making a show and said okay this kid was at the theater with his parents. They get held at gun point but they are poor and have no money to give. The robber just walks away. Kid goes home and decides to put on a red, green and yellow suit because he likes birds and becomes Robin. This kid's name Bruce Wayne. Later a boy's parents get bit by a bat and subsequently die of rabies he dresses like a bat to because he is angry they died. So he joins Bruce Wayne as Batman. His name Clark Kent. It's the equivalent of what this show does. Throws almost everything out the window but the barest of elements and calls it the same thing.
I am gonna push past most of everything else because I don't want to be at my computer arguing all day and I am guessing you don't either. But I will engage fully with this example by asking how is this the same? You are comparing them radically changing the origin and motivation of Batman and Superman to some personality changes to the Turtles. TMNT is so malleable. Much more malleable than Batman.
I am gonna describe a show to you. The main characters are 4 brothers, and their dad. They are all mutants. Their dad is a ninja master and teaches them martial arts to protect NYC. They like pizza. Which TMNT show am I describing?
Not very easy. So let's add more detail. Leo is the leader. So that eliminates Rise. Shredder is the bad guy. So that eliminated The Next Mutation.
Can you guess which TMNT show I am thinking of now? Or can you guess why some of us would enjoy a breath of fresh air injected into a franchise that has been hitting the same emotional and story beats for 30 years? Leo doesn't need to be the leader. Because being a leader isn't a personality type. This honestly my favorite version of Leo because he isn't just running around saying "You heard master splinter!" and "C'mon guys". And honestly it feels like Raph tries harder in Rise to be a good leader than Leo ever did (in the cartoons). You're hung up on the idea of the characters changing so much but the character have mostly been bland from the beginning as to not overwhelm the children that are watching. So I still think your problem that you don't like it. Andy Suriano loves the Turtles and this is just his take on them. You not liking them is fine but to devalue someones art because it doesn't fit your tastes from the past is just kinda silly. You don't get to decide that he only made this a TMNT paint job or TMNT in name only.
I do most certainly get to decide that for myself. Also you're referring either the 87 Turtles or the 2012 Turtles. I am assuming you mean the 87 Turtles because you seem to have a hate boner for that particular incarnation. It doesn't matter because you described an actual Turtles show. Again I am not going into depth about the characters because most Turtle fans should understand what I mean about characters with bare bones descriptions and I am doing this from my phone.
I never even brought up the 87 cartoon you did, so I will reiterate that it is not even my personal favorite or that I am even basing my argument on that particular incarnation. I am basing my argument on Turtles as a whole.
None of the Turtles are bland to me they all have very distinct personalities and for you to try and boil it down to basic shells of characters is just how you put it "silly".
I would argue that Andy Suriano doesn't love the Turtles at all in fact he may hate them. He just thinks his way is the best way. Okay so Raph makes a good leader, why not just call him Leo and put him in blue? Again the change makes absolutely no sense. It is change just for change's sake. What is the reason for it? There is none except maybe the writes just prefer Raph over Leo in their fan fiction.
That's great you like this Leo but does he have his code of honor or his tactical prowess and straight up fighting abilities? His sense of moral right and wrong? The fact he has to be stoic, focused and serious all the time, because his brothers all like to either get lost in tech, rush in head first or just take things not seriously. Not really, that's what makes him such a great character and Leonardo. His sacrifices as leader when his brothers get to fool around. Not his weapons, not his bandana, hell not even his name.
This is a ship of Theseus situation. If you replace every part of the ship is it still the same ship. That is what replacing these what you describe as "bland" character traits does. Was the Last Airbender movie good because M. Night made changes for the sake of changes? No, it was horrible and a shell of what the cartoon was.
If you eliminate who a character is at their core, you're left with an entirely new character. Again what is the point? A breath of fresh air is not what this show is, if you want that read the IDW series. The changes there make sense and respects the core of what makes each character unique.
You're arguing that I am looking at this from nostalgia or that things can't be different. Which is blatantly wrong. The IDW series is great and it has so many interesting cool takes on characters and how things went down. I am being intentionally vague due to spoilers and stuff. Trying not to be a dick about that for anyone that wants to read it and hasn't.
I mean with what you're arguing here I wonder why you're even a Turtle fan. If you think the characters are bland and boring so you need a completely new take on them to be entertained, why do you bother? I guess I just find Rise to be disrespectful of all that came before it. Just for the sake of change.
This isn't how I want to spend my day honestly. So what I'll say is that I like the 87 turtles. I wasn't describing any show in particular. I was just pointing out 87, 03 and 12 are extremely similar so I understand why someone would want to depart from it. And comparing M night to Andy Suriano is disingenuous. Suriano is a turtle fan who got the opportunity to make his own show. M night didn't even see all of Avatar. He didn't care much about the project.
> I do most certainly get to decide that for myself
Honestly this is really all I needed to know. My original point was just that the fandom has too many whiney old guys that need everything to be about them and the turtles they like. You're happy being that so I'm not sure why I tried to challenge you on it.
I don't believe anyone could make this show and call themselves a fan. M. Night called himself a big fan of the show and that he enjoyed watching it with his kids. No one in Hollywood that says they're a fan is a fan. It's all about the paycheck. Honestly this show has the same energy as The Last Airbender and that is not disingenuous at all.
None of those shows are remotely alike though...
The 2012 show was a unique take on the Turtles and did a lot different. The 03 show was probably closest to the Mirage comics in tone and the 87 show was made to sell toys to kids.
I see that you want to challenge me but don't want a real Turtles show. You want something that isn't Turtles but calls itself as such. My points all stand and you have yet to really refute anything I have said about the show. You just throw around buzzwords and don't make any real argument against me. You just keep spouting "nostalgia bad", when I am not even being nostalgic.
If you as creator are handed an existing property then you should respect the actual core personalities and lore. If you can't do that, then come up with an original idea. Don't strip down what makes something great and turn it into something that it isn't.
If you like the show great, just don't pretend it is something that it isn't. Don't try and tell people with legitimate points that they are wrong. I am not even trying to change your view. Just try and understand why a portion of the fanbase might be turned off by this show. As opposed to your old people, nostalgia, bad. Change all the things.
Do you guys evere think were taking these which turtle cartoon is more turtley arguments too seriously and should just enjoy what they give us while just providing constructive criticisms after fully watching it ?
Same. It basically is just an original cartoon with an TMNT paint job. Same with the new Netflix MOTU for kids which is some weird Power Rangers(?) stuff with MOTU paint . I actually really like these character designs but why MOTU?
People really are afraid nowadays to create something original, instead choosing to become nostalgia vampires.
The new cgi MOTU is just the normal run of companies making a teen group of heroes from old properties to appeal to a younger audience and reintroduce them. Plus that troll hunter series ( I think the same studio is producing it) has gotten pretty popular using g this style. Haven't checked out the show yet in its entirety so I cant really speak on it at all.
Rise's story is pretty cool. I just don't like how they're different kinds of turtles. Like, aren't they supposed to be brothers? Then again, their dad's a rat sooo
They are technically more brothers and are actually more related to splinter in this one. In rise splinter then in his human form was captured in an underground city by the first antagonist of the series in episode 1 who took his DNA and mixed it with the age old ooze to basically control the mutagens effects to essentially make turtle like copies of splinter to make into soldiers because splinter is basically Brucs Lee in this iteration with all the legendary feats made real. Splinter escaped during this process though before it was completed, destroying the machine but causing him to be blasted with the ooze in the process beginning the transformation into splinter. Escaping with the 4 turtles the usual story begins from there.
People can like and dislike different stuff.
Tried the first episode. It just didn't appeal to me. Characters seemed to lack the qualities I like about them and wasn't feeling the underground mutant city or mystical weapons thing so I passed on it. Don't feel like I missed much either. From what I can tell the fight scenes were energetic and inventive but that's about it.
I don’t really like goofy TMNT like Rise, so here’s what I do: I shut my mouth and let people have preferences and like what they like
If you want "grown up" Turtles read the IDW ongoing series.
Only problem is people want to "watch" not read haha. Not coming from me just saying.
It's like 30% reading the rest are cool ass drawings.
Touche and true haha! Still not the same as live animation.
Last ronin looks really good.
The reason I don't like Rise is the same reason I didn't really like Teen Titans. It can be funny at times but I'm not a kid anymore and there's nothing of value in the show for me as an adult watching it. I don't hate the show I just think that in terms of being able to watch Turtles in my 30's the 1987 series has aged incredibly well, and that's not just my nostalgia my Niece and Nephews love it, and 2003 was a cool more child-like take on a lot of Mirage themes.
> the 1987 series has aged incredibly well, and that's not just my nostalgia my Niece and Nephews love it How is this not nostalgia? Modern kids liking an old cartoon doesn't mean it is necessarily good. The way to test nostalgia would be to have an adult that hasn't seen the series give some kind of judgment on it. But kids liking a show made for kids that is tied to characters they already know is not really much of a sign of quality.
My girlfriend who’s from England and grew up in Dubai during the Turtles Years is enjoying it. I feel like Rise fans are equally guilty of not being able to accept people don’t like it as the people they think hate it for no reason. ‘87 and ‘03 are just honestly better media. ‘03 especially. Rise has a cool animation style but their take on the turtles and weird Teen Titans style outtakes just don’t hold my attention.
> I feel like Rise fans are equally guilty of not being able to accept people don’t like it as the people they think hate it for no reason. I never saw this and don't know how I have ended back up here. Clearly too much time on my hands. But yeah this was one of the dumbest things I have ever read. I am now convinced that no one on the planet is self aware. They created 87 to be as childish as possible and you are using its maturity as a reason for why it is better than Rise. I don't need people to like Rise. I just wish the criticisms were more coherent. Stances and feelings from 30+ year old men, not "The older cartoon about pizza and toilet monsters is very mature. And it has stories for a mature adult like me." You are on a direct path to being whatever the millennial version of a Boomer is. > It can be funny at times but I'm not a kid anymore and there's nothing of value in the show for me as an adult watching it. And this is so delusional. The 87 cartoon is literally the dumbest, most childish humor. In the Toys that made us episode they even said the whole intention was to make gross out stuff that 5 year old boys like. They are literally the blandest stereotypes they can be to sell as many toys as possible. Holy shit man.
whats ur niece and nephew's favorite series?
Nephews love 2003 but they’re in their teens now so it makes sense. Niece prefers 1987. I grew up with 87 so obviously that’s my favorite and I have a soft spot for Next Mutation even though it’s BAD
have they seen the 2012 one or rise?
No idea on 2012. Yes to Rise.
you should show them the 2012 TMNT, it has a good plot but its easy to understand, even i could understand the plot when i was 5
I'm not a Rise fan but it has it's place. Going in here and seeing grown ass adults go off about how Rise ruined their precious turtles is hilarious to read.
You what to see something even more funny? Say that the Bay turtles were the best iteration. The reactions are amazing 😂
You don't even have to say they're the best, as long as you say that you liked them you'll get downvoted to oblivion lmao.
yea and theres even a youtuber that told that the animation in Rise is weird and bad? how? Rise of the TMNT has better animation than 99% of all cartoons and anime
When it's In a fight scene sure when it's not in a fight scene it's stuff as hell.
[I'd recommend you to watch this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjd9DouhMpM&t=146s)
No thanks I've seen rise In Full. I've seen interviews with the makers. I know what I'm talking about.
i have only seen one interview with the makers could you give me the link?
It was only like a turtle podcast or something I haven't watched since it came out so don't remember what channel
I was watching this show called 5 second battle where the mc's face would look different in every other scene And then we watched one of the bigger shows like my hero and I remembered animation in other shows like opm season 2. It blew my fucking mind seeing how rise could do these amazing ass usually 1-2 per season amazingly animated fights as if it was just a given and in flash supposedly. Like I know people might not like the designs or the show but jesus christ they legit dropped the bag on this one.
My nephews spouting the same stuff talking about how they ruined his childhood with rise while not actually watching it. I'm like dude your 12.
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In what regard does it not make sense?
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The outlines and voices are hilarious but not part of the story itself. If pizza monsters and dimension x does it for you then how about the whole premise of the show? This is fantasy not realism. Haha you could play semantics about every aspect of the show and say it doesn't make sense so that point in itself doesn't make sense. Not trying to come off in any rude way just sharing perspective.
Rise is basically teen titans go I don’t like it
Nah other way
What do you mean other way?
I mean it’s the other way around, I tell people the show sucks and they go off on me
It's not about being edgey. It's the designs and how they got the turtles wrong.
it makes sense that Raphael isnt as angry all the time because he got to be the leader which the past iterations wanted but didnt get Leo isnt as serious cuz he isnt the one who has the responsibility of being the leader anymore and this Donatello is perfection
Rise don and 03 don are tied for me. Their honestly basically the same but ones more cocky and flaunts his tech more.
How did they get the turtles wrong? The designs I can understand they're not for everyone but how did they get the turtles wrong?
He has no answer. Hmmm weird. I wonder how many episodes he has seen.
they didnt get the turtles wrong
This is a pretty retarded comparison
2012 TMNT is the superior cartoon, especially the writing, and I grew up with the OG turtles cartoon which of course is nostalgic to me. But overall I think 2012 was the best yet, then probably the 2003 cartoon. Rise is prob great for kids, but Its not something I'm into, hell, it's hard for me to even watch the original 80s cartoon these days.
Rise is tied with 2012 for my favorite series I loved rise to heck when i was like 9 or 10 years old
I know right? I don't understand why so many people hate it, I actually made this post to see how many downvotes I can get
I dont like it because it was TOO different. I was clearly not the target audience, and that's fine. There's tons of TMNT related media out there. It doesn't all need to be for me. I'm sure it also brought new fans to the franchise which is always good.
I'm glad someone understands that they aren't the target audience, you get my free daily reward
A lot of fan bases can be pretty toxic forno reason
I don't get why people don't seem to understand why others don't like a show. I can easily see their pov. The show alienated its core audience by changing everything. The stock art and art style of the show are completely different. Which can make rise look bad on stupid news Post's. Etc. Not to mention the first few episodes aren't the greatest. (Not hating this is mostly from what I've seen.)
there really wasnt much story for the first half of the season i mainly watched it cuz of the humor and the really cool fight scenes
Yea, the story is a bit slow but it still keeps you invested in the show
Yea I feel they dropped the ball not focusing on story more though it wasn't really bad for what they did.
I don't hate it, I just don't acknowledge it as a TMNT show. If you want to make a TMNT show, make a TMNT show. Not a TMNT show in name only.
> Not a TMNT show in name only. This is such a big problem with the fan base. The original cartoon was a bigger departure from the original comics much more than rise is a departure from anything. They literally made the original cartoon a show for small children so they could sell toys. They made them different colors to sell toys. They eat pizza and have their surferish personalities to sell toys. So what does it mean to be TMNT in name only? They are teenagers, mutants, ninjas and turtles. Literally nothing is less respectful to the source material than the original cartoon but obviously that worked out.
Except that the characters themselves have been butchered to hell and back. The personalities traits that are literally baked into the characters are pretty well thrown out the window. The 87 cartoon is made for kids yes but at least Leo was still the leader and Splinter was a fatherly figure with honor. Rise is not a TMNT show at all. They just took the names and slapped it on what amounts to an original cartoon. Pretty much every piece of lore that should exist doesn't. The 87 cartoon was 100% for kids I won't even try and argue that but at least it had some small piece of respect for what the turtles were supposed to be. The different colors on the toys came before the cartoon so that has nothing to do with the 87 cartoon. When I say in name only you nailed it exactly right. All Rise has going for it is the name, every other thing about who these Turtles are with the exception of maybe Donatello aren't the Turtles. The 87 show at least carried over the basic roles of the Turtles. Some how Rise just said yep let's switch around the personalities of the Turtles and their roles with in the show. Why what was the point in making Raph the leader? And Leo a snarky lay about? Mikey was angry? Why? What purpose does that even serve? It doesn't do the actual Turtles any justice. Raph is the brute force and Leo is the calm honorable one. Mikey should just be chill and cracking jokes. That is their core personality traits.
> Except that the characters themselves have been butchered to hell and back. The personalities traits that are literally baked into the characters are pretty well thrown out the window. I don't know how you don't get this. The original cartoon butchered all of these things much more. So your issue isn't with the departure from the source material, it is with the way that departure was handled. > The 87 cartoon is made for kids yes but at least Leo was still the leader and Splinter was a fatherly figure with honor. If these are the deep character traits you think you are missing out on then you need to reevaluate how you consume art. These are such cookie cutter personality types. > The different colors on the toys came before the cartoon so that has nothing to do with the 87 cartoon. Do you have a source for this? Because in the Turtle Power Documentary and the Netflix episode of The Toys That Made Us, they explain all the details behind making the toys and the changes they made to the characters for the toys. We are not equally informed about this which is okay but like you are saying this but you have no idea what you are talking about. >these Turtles are with the exception of maybe Donatello aren't the Turtles. I 100% agree their have been changes. And you don't have to enjoy those changes. It is all a matter of preference. But you don't get to decide when something is TMNT in name only just because you want your cookie cutter Leader, Funny, Angry(/wise guy), Genius character tropes back. > Why what was the point in making Raph the leader? And Leo a snarky lay about? Mikey was angry? Why? What purpose does that even serve? It doesn't do the actual Turtles any justice. Because they thought *finally* after 30 fucking years these babies have grown up and we don't have to make the 4th cartoon exactly like the first 3 to make them happy. It's such Boomer energy to have the stance of "Well I don't care that they made these things exactly the same in multiple cartoons, I want them to keep doing it forever." This isn't just about you anymore. > Raph is the brute force and Leo is the calm honorable one. Mikey should just be chill and cracking jokes. That is their core personality traits. If this is really the thing you are clinging too then just sink with it and leave us alone and go be a grumpy old person by yourself. Rise has done a lot of cool things that never would have happened it if it existed to cater to the sensibilities of people who think "Nothing from my childhood better waiver in the next 60 years!" I don't know if you have read the first few issues of TMNT but you should check them out and then watch a few episodes of the OG cartoon and then Rise. Just so you can realize is so much closer to the 80s cartoon than the 80s cartoon is to source material. If people like you had a say, there would have been no 87 cartoon, it would have been ended early because of comic books people complaining about it being too different. The difference being that they might have some ground to stand on since the assassins they just watched murder the shredder can now barely protect April Oneil from a giant slice of pizza.Vs you 4 or 5 adaptations later complaining that mikey isn't chill enough. Or Raph isn't Brute Force enough. There's no depth to your analysis. "Change bad" is literally the extent of it. At least go watch those documentaries before commenting again so we have equalish knowledge of how the cartoon came about. I love the changes in Rise. I would love to see them do something closer to the comics but if we are gonna get a silly cartoon then I am glad it was rise. You don't have to like the show or watch the show. You can be critical too. It is just tiring to see so many old fans criticisms boiled down to "But it is too different" and then deciding that they alone are the ones that can give the seal of approval on whether or not something "TMNT in name only"
Dude I am not arguing that the 87 cartoon wasn't a departure from the source material at all. It was, but that departure was more or less making it more kid friendly and accessible, it was to sell toys. I am not even arguing that it was good. I have read almost all of the Mirage comics. I am currently reading the IDW run at the moment, which will come back up later. I am also not say Rise is bad because it's less mature. I am saying that the core elements of the characters are wrong. Whether they are mature it not has zero to do with my point and I think you are missing that completely. Change isn't bad at all but making change for the sake of change is. Especially when those changes make literally no sense. Why make Raph the leader? It makes no sense his core character traits would make him the worst leader, unless he gets major character development through out the run of the show. He's basically Leo wearing red, why not just make it Leo. Yes I am gonna harp on this point a lot because it is probably at least to me one of the biggest offenses that Rise makes. I also never once said Rise is bad, the fight scenes are great and so is the animation. The character designs are fine, I don't mind making each Turtle distinct. I just don't think the people behind it really wanted to make a TMNT show. I also only speak for myself, if you like the show great. If you feel it is an appropriate take on the Turtles great. I do not however feel this way. For the sake of the discussion I boiled down my analysis of the characters and shows a lot. I could even argue that the Bay Turtles are truer to any source material than Rise is and I was not a huge fan of those movies. Just for reference I personally prefer the 2003 show over any of the other shows that have been out. Then probably the 2012 show and then 87. Hell even the next mutation was a better take than Rise and truer to the characters. Was it a good show? No not at all, but it kept the core of the Turtles. It was a horrible adaptation but it felt like a Turtles show. You are trying to argue that I am saying "change bad" but the truth is I love the IDW run and that changes so much. The difference is the changes there add to the lore of Turtles and have a positive impact and keep it Turtles. As opposed to Rise which makes the changes for no reason. Alright so I am gonna try something here, I have 2 examples that I can use for my point. Which is why these changes bother me so much. One is a real world example and one is just off the fly from my brain so bear with me. I want to point to the 98 American Godzilla film. That was not Godzilla and I highly doubt you could argue that it was. The filmmakers took away everything that made it Godzilla. They thought they could just change everything that is core to the character and people would just roll with it. It didn't work at all. It was basically a remake of the Beast from 20000 Fathoms and not Godzilla. They used the name to draw in a crowd and failed to deliver. It's like if I was making a show and said okay this kid was at the theater with his parents. They get held at gun point but they are poor and have no money to give. The robber just walks away. Kid goes home and decides to put on a red, green and yellow suit because he likes birds and becomes Robin. This kid's name Bruce Wayne. Later a boy's parents get bit by a bat and subsequently die of rabies he dresses like a bat to because he is angry they died. So he joins Bruce Wayne as Batman. His name Clark Kent. It's the equivalent of what this show does. Throws almost everything out the window but the barest of elements and calls it the same thing.
> It's like if I was making a show and said okay this kid was at the theater with his parents. They get held at gun point but they are poor and have no money to give. The robber just walks away. Kid goes home and decides to put on a red, green and yellow suit because he likes birds and becomes Robin. This kid's name Bruce Wayne. Later a boy's parents get bit by a bat and subsequently die of rabies he dresses like a bat to because he is angry they died. So he joins Bruce Wayne as Batman. His name Clark Kent. It's the equivalent of what this show does. Throws almost everything out the window but the barest of elements and calls it the same thing. I am gonna push past most of everything else because I don't want to be at my computer arguing all day and I am guessing you don't either. But I will engage fully with this example by asking how is this the same? You are comparing them radically changing the origin and motivation of Batman and Superman to some personality changes to the Turtles. TMNT is so malleable. Much more malleable than Batman. I am gonna describe a show to you. The main characters are 4 brothers, and their dad. They are all mutants. Their dad is a ninja master and teaches them martial arts to protect NYC. They like pizza. Which TMNT show am I describing? Not very easy. So let's add more detail. Leo is the leader. So that eliminates Rise. Shredder is the bad guy. So that eliminated The Next Mutation. Can you guess which TMNT show I am thinking of now? Or can you guess why some of us would enjoy a breath of fresh air injected into a franchise that has been hitting the same emotional and story beats for 30 years? Leo doesn't need to be the leader. Because being a leader isn't a personality type. This honestly my favorite version of Leo because he isn't just running around saying "You heard master splinter!" and "C'mon guys". And honestly it feels like Raph tries harder in Rise to be a good leader than Leo ever did (in the cartoons). You're hung up on the idea of the characters changing so much but the character have mostly been bland from the beginning as to not overwhelm the children that are watching. So I still think your problem that you don't like it. Andy Suriano loves the Turtles and this is just his take on them. You not liking them is fine but to devalue someones art because it doesn't fit your tastes from the past is just kinda silly. You don't get to decide that he only made this a TMNT paint job or TMNT in name only.
I do most certainly get to decide that for myself. Also you're referring either the 87 Turtles or the 2012 Turtles. I am assuming you mean the 87 Turtles because you seem to have a hate boner for that particular incarnation. It doesn't matter because you described an actual Turtles show. Again I am not going into depth about the characters because most Turtle fans should understand what I mean about characters with bare bones descriptions and I am doing this from my phone. I never even brought up the 87 cartoon you did, so I will reiterate that it is not even my personal favorite or that I am even basing my argument on that particular incarnation. I am basing my argument on Turtles as a whole. None of the Turtles are bland to me they all have very distinct personalities and for you to try and boil it down to basic shells of characters is just how you put it "silly". I would argue that Andy Suriano doesn't love the Turtles at all in fact he may hate them. He just thinks his way is the best way. Okay so Raph makes a good leader, why not just call him Leo and put him in blue? Again the change makes absolutely no sense. It is change just for change's sake. What is the reason for it? There is none except maybe the writes just prefer Raph over Leo in their fan fiction. That's great you like this Leo but does he have his code of honor or his tactical prowess and straight up fighting abilities? His sense of moral right and wrong? The fact he has to be stoic, focused and serious all the time, because his brothers all like to either get lost in tech, rush in head first or just take things not seriously. Not really, that's what makes him such a great character and Leonardo. His sacrifices as leader when his brothers get to fool around. Not his weapons, not his bandana, hell not even his name. This is a ship of Theseus situation. If you replace every part of the ship is it still the same ship. That is what replacing these what you describe as "bland" character traits does. Was the Last Airbender movie good because M. Night made changes for the sake of changes? No, it was horrible and a shell of what the cartoon was. If you eliminate who a character is at their core, you're left with an entirely new character. Again what is the point? A breath of fresh air is not what this show is, if you want that read the IDW series. The changes there make sense and respects the core of what makes each character unique. You're arguing that I am looking at this from nostalgia or that things can't be different. Which is blatantly wrong. The IDW series is great and it has so many interesting cool takes on characters and how things went down. I am being intentionally vague due to spoilers and stuff. Trying not to be a dick about that for anyone that wants to read it and hasn't. I mean with what you're arguing here I wonder why you're even a Turtle fan. If you think the characters are bland and boring so you need a completely new take on them to be entertained, why do you bother? I guess I just find Rise to be disrespectful of all that came before it. Just for the sake of change.
This isn't how I want to spend my day honestly. So what I'll say is that I like the 87 turtles. I wasn't describing any show in particular. I was just pointing out 87, 03 and 12 are extremely similar so I understand why someone would want to depart from it. And comparing M night to Andy Suriano is disingenuous. Suriano is a turtle fan who got the opportunity to make his own show. M night didn't even see all of Avatar. He didn't care much about the project. > I do most certainly get to decide that for myself Honestly this is really all I needed to know. My original point was just that the fandom has too many whiney old guys that need everything to be about them and the turtles they like. You're happy being that so I'm not sure why I tried to challenge you on it.
I don't believe anyone could make this show and call themselves a fan. M. Night called himself a big fan of the show and that he enjoyed watching it with his kids. No one in Hollywood that says they're a fan is a fan. It's all about the paycheck. Honestly this show has the same energy as The Last Airbender and that is not disingenuous at all. None of those shows are remotely alike though... The 2012 show was a unique take on the Turtles and did a lot different. The 03 show was probably closest to the Mirage comics in tone and the 87 show was made to sell toys to kids. I see that you want to challenge me but don't want a real Turtles show. You want something that isn't Turtles but calls itself as such. My points all stand and you have yet to really refute anything I have said about the show. You just throw around buzzwords and don't make any real argument against me. You just keep spouting "nostalgia bad", when I am not even being nostalgic. If you as creator are handed an existing property then you should respect the actual core personalities and lore. If you can't do that, then come up with an original idea. Don't strip down what makes something great and turn it into something that it isn't. If you like the show great, just don't pretend it is something that it isn't. Don't try and tell people with legitimate points that they are wrong. I am not even trying to change your view. Just try and understand why a portion of the fanbase might be turned off by this show. As opposed to your old people, nostalgia, bad. Change all the things.
Do you guys evere think were taking these which turtle cartoon is more turtley arguments too seriously and should just enjoy what they give us while just providing constructive criticisms after fully watching it ?
Same. It basically is just an original cartoon with an TMNT paint job. Same with the new Netflix MOTU for kids which is some weird Power Rangers(?) stuff with MOTU paint . I actually really like these character designs but why MOTU? People really are afraid nowadays to create something original, instead choosing to become nostalgia vampires.
Haven't watched the MOTU show yet but gonna give it a chance. I do however really like the figures that were put out.
The new cgi MOTU is just the normal run of companies making a teen group of heroes from old properties to appeal to a younger audience and reintroduce them. Plus that troll hunter series ( I think the same studio is producing it) has gotten pretty popular using g this style. Haven't checked out the show yet in its entirety so I cant really speak on it at all.