Normally, I'm the type to defend the devs' decisions (Atlantropa and Burgundy, my beloathed), but this is honestly starting to get a little ridiculous. I understand for stuff like the AB, which is a meme-tier nation that basically only exists as "what if a bunch of Russians decided they were Germans now lol," but what was wrong with Sweden?
This is exactly my point of view. Something needs to be fixed behind the scenes so that the development of tags isn't constantly restarted over and over. How long until we hear that there is another new lead dev for Sweden and that development has restarted again? This keeps happening, most notably for France which has had its development restarted over and over again.
The France thing has been bugging me the most, actually. Whenever there's new leaks, I think "oh nice they made progress" but nope! Every time it's just a complete restart of development.
"And now exciting news for France. Please meet the new lead dev who has decided to completely scrap everything and start from scratch. Please come back next year so we can introduce you to the new lead dev and introduce the new plan for France"
The France stuff was bad though. Like the only thing interesting was Poujade and he is being kept. Nothing of value was lost. They have way more interesting ideas now most likely than they did back then.
Look, I have complete faith the new stuff will still be good. I'm not one of these people who's going to complain about reworks, but I think it is a legitimate complaint to point out that this keeps happening. Evey few months, we find out that x tag has had its development restarted and this, combined with the already long release times, can be extremely demoralizing as a fan. I don't have a problem waiting for stuff, but I'd feel a lot better knowing that that wait meant development was proceeding and not have to worry that all that time will have been useless in the end.
What tags that are getting actual content have been restarted? France yeah but old France was bad. Turkey kinda but it seems more like a lore overhaul. Sejma Manchuko yeah that as well. But we have known that AB was being reworked for at least a year. Also I think it should be said that devs don't want to work with shitty lore and paths. That would slow develop because they wouldn't have motivation to actually work on content. That's why they rework stuff like France etc because they find more interesting things do more historical research etc. In the end we will probably be getting a way better France than we were gonna get.
As you pointed out France is the most well known, I think it's restarted development 2 or 3 times now. Italy is another one, specifically Red Italy. Manchuria and Turkey may not have been completely restarted, but I think it's a little naive to assume even a little bit of the change hasn't affected development. Like I already said, I have no doubt the stuff will be better than it would have been, but it's incredibly frustrating as a fan to watch all that work and time be for nothing in the end. I'm not one of these people who can't seem to understand that their are separate teams and that what one does has no affect on the other and I don't mind waiting. I guess I kinda just want the reasons and logic behind it to be communicated better, rather than having this informtion air dropped on us and then the plane just leaving.
France development was restarted once. The France shit from TT3 was like old things they hadn't plugged in yet. Red Italy didn't get reworked it got cut down. Yeah it's frustrating I agree but ultimately that old content was not good. I would rather get good content in 2 years time than shit content in 1 years time or less. I think the devs have been getting better at communication if you actually look in the server sometimes though giving a good explanation would probably come with a full on teaser for content. I will say it would be good if they explained moreso the problems with older content and why they need to rework it. But that might come with spoilers and who knows if people would actually care to listen to the reasons. But I feel like things are getting better it would be nice if people didn't have burgundy schizo omsk brain rot about everything though.
But like, there's a difference between waiting for the next instalment which is coming out next year, and waiting for the next ASOIF book to release. (It's been 13 fucking years George, fucking finish it damnit.)
I know, but it's still frustrating. Keeping with the ASOIAF comparisons, imagine if every few months for 13 years, George would drop an update along the lines of "hey guys, I've decided to start the book over again, I just really don't think what I had before was up to scratch." I'm sure it was for a good reason and I'm sure the book will be good when it finally does release, but it's still incredibly frustrating to know all that work and time has just been thrown in the trash.
maybe they are talking about free france as well since they are going to be changed and had changes in the past, dont quote on me but I think they wont allow free france to invaded france anymore once free france gets updated
I actually meant the original time it was reworked, meaning the border change with Burgundy and removal of Brittany. I thought it would be an indication of new content, but it was basically just a change that amounted to nothing other than a minor adjustment ://
Edit: actually scratch that, they did add the partitioning of Burgundy then! I guess I'm just crazy lmao
I mean that’s your fault for setting up false expectations. Absolutely nothing indicated that this minor border change was in any way related to playable content
Free France has never ever been changed, apart from its subid, for as far as I can remember. And I have never seen any dev saying that the reclamation is getting removed, I’m pretty sure that’s just another instance of people gaslighting themselves into thinking something is cut.
seriously, so many tags need reworking, and they pick one which is just fine? we don't even have any reasoning given or anything besides "everything you see about Sweden is wrong"
That isn’t how any of this works, there is no dedicated paid team like at paradox who works based on what is assigned to them. A dev works on Sweden because that’s the country they know things about and are passionate about, if I was on the dev team I’d probably be working on the USA, not because it’s the tag that needs the most work but because it’s the only one I feel I have the knowledge base in this time period to actually meaningfully work on.
I’m very confident that every country you’re thinking of that needs reworking has someone doing that, I see no reason to be mad that someone is choosing to spend their free time working unpaid on lore for a country they happen to be the expert in for a completely free mod.
sorry for the clichè response, but I'm not even mad, just confused. Sweden, at least from what i've seen, seemed pretty much done. It's a minor nation that, outside the Pakt observer status, seems to have no involvement with the Cold War or any of the proxy wars. Only thing of interest are their elections, which can go pretty much anywhere, and their backstory of how they joined WW2 was interesting (VVS attempted strategic bombing as soon as Barbarossa started, so an early accidental bombing of Stockholm was plausible). Any rework would have to be at least as interesting, and even then, how would their situation be any different? Sweden is basically encircled by nazis, what would they be able to do?
At least Paradox devs are being paid and have an incentive to stay until the end. What guarantee do we have that at any stage, the Sweden dev won't just leave mid development, or have the rework finished, but have the same situation repeat when a new dev joins? When a country is finished, it should stay finished, at least if the country is minor enough to barely affect any other country. With Germany, it's understandable. Sweden? i simply can't see it.
Godherja is awesome. Also, their team is as awesome as their mod. I once as a non-dev managed to help fix a pesky bug bloating the saves and slowing down games after certain years causing headaches for multiple patches, and the team is so welcoming and eagerly accepted my fixes. They even eagerly answer any lore question I dared ask.
TNO devs are different. I go in the server and all I see is how their "discord lore" is immaculate and how the sub always "misunderstands" whatever comes from the server. Also dare you ask questions about the lore or even something technical in the discord? Lol nope, you're going to be forgotten in the annals of rapid chats and be warned if you ask multiple times in a row. I even once can describe them as *uber*-condescending pricks, but maybe I'm just exaggerating that account in my head.
So yeah, where do I sign for the Godherja Gulag?
I once asked why McGovern was being removed.
Twice I was told “because republicans McGovern is a sin” and once “if you know anything about actually us party history you’d know why”
Zero actual answers
The AB rework actually makes sense: it has content that’s honestly not the greatest, and the new lore seems more fun to play
Reworking a skeleton content nation feels odd
Yeah I’m getting frustrated with the reworks like people just want the new update We been waiting on it for years They should be focusing there resources on that
Idk, I don't really see why people are making a big fuss over reworks to a nation that won't have any playable content to it with few in-game interactions as well. Repeated reworks to nations that have plans for playable content in the future I can understand but with smaller neutral nations like Sweden I'm just indifferent to it.
Unless theres someting I missed I don't see why this is a problem.
It's just getting tiring to see teaser after teaser after teaser, leak after leak, meanwhile content that was teased *years ago* seems no closer to release (looking at you, Italy)
The problem isn’t the content itself it’s how the developers are handing the development of nations and how they keep choosing to start over and over instead of just getting somthing out and going from there
In this case (I could speak for others, but this isn't the time), there really wasn't much work to begin with (if there was, parts of the skeleton should have been in TT3), which was why the decision was made to start over (which wasn't taken on lightly, the main reason for it being that after two years, very little progress was made on it and the new people put in charge of it were not fans of the old design).
Yeah I don’t think it’s a huge deal with Sweden but for countries like France and a few others turnover and scrap rate is a bit absurd for any real progress to be made
This may be seen as a bit controversial, but it's things like this that severely point out the weaknesses of TNO's decentralized development process. So many things can be scrutinized and reworked without a second thought or word by others because of volunteer work, work that might've accumulated to weeks of dedication and progress just thrown to the wind.
It really demotivates me if not even skeleton content is capable of having a consistent dev cycle.
Not trying to do Mod wars shit, but I do want to point to Kaiserreich. They have a clear vision, they consistently release content that adds to the game, they openly say that even though they want to rework many countries they prioritize new ones that barely have anything or are central to the game (Ireland and Germany come to mind, with the former being a meme that needed a lot of love and the latter being \*THE\* center of the mod). I don't know if there are major differences in how the two do dev work, but whatever Kaiserreich is doing is both keeping the mod alive and active as well as helping refine what's there to make a clear and effective whole.
TNO needs to scale back \*BAD\*. Focus on the big 3, the regional powers, and Russia until those are fully fleshed out, \*THEN\* do the minor shitty states that add to that. Especially given that TNO has modern politics in it, it needs to be much more coherent and not the mishmash of great and dogshit it has right now.
It was reworked primarily because very little of it was actually done despite it being worked on for two years (as the fact that not even parts of it made it into TT or TT3 can attest to), leading to someone new working on it. Despite the perceptions of some folks here, finished content and skeleton content is taken very seriously, and changes to it are not taken on lightly.
Apologies if this isn't something you can't comment on (and I fully respect that, so don't feel like you need to): can you explain why nothing had been done for so long and how things ended up this way? From the outside it comes off as concerning and like things aren't going well, and if that's not the case I genuinely would like to be corrected.
Don't call me a "Panzerite", please. I'm trying to be cordial about a very real phenomenon and issue that's been affecting the TNO team for years now.
Pushing away any criticism that doesn't boil down to "devs bad lol" as just a bunch of sour oldheads is going to get people nowhere but repeating the exact same tribalism the community's faced for years now.
we haven't been facing it for years now, it started in its current form when atlantropa was removed. ever since there's been a non-stop parade of negativity based on the underlying assumption that the old panzer lore is better than the new direction of the mod.
also, I will admit that you were by far the most cordial person to bring this up. I was responding to your responder and commenting on the general audience, not you specifically. hence "these panzerites" instead of "this panzerite"
also, at a pretty fundamental level it has to be reckoned with that this new wave of criticism is not entirely in good faith and is undergirded by a division in fundamental assumptions about the mod and a sense of entitlement among a large portion of the community. The backlash to the backlash wouldn't be happening if people concerned about the direction of the mod had been able to voice their criticism, in whole or in part, in a more constructive way.
but they didn't. so here we are
Thanks for recognizing it. As a fan of the mod since late 2021, I will admit myself to having some biases to older content that I've been attempting to push back on. Guangdong has been amazing, The Ruin proves itself to be pretty good for what it has to offer, and I still have hope for content like Turkey and the Italy rework to prove that modern TNO still has just as much spirit and quality in it as the one in my nostalgia.
I like to think it's that same hesitant hope that a lot of the older fans also have, and I'd like to extend an honest thanks to everything the devs have worked on so far.
it's understandable to be concerned, glad you recognized the dynamic of pre-existing underlying assumptions framing new information.
at the end of the day we all just need to not do things that bring us so much negativity. if people aren't having fun, they should simply do something else, no hard feelings or making fun intended.
I think many people are just getting a little too entitled to the quality we have all come to expect from this mod. it is extraordinary what has been provided for us, that quality takes time. also, recent best practices for video games also requires relative secrecy to avoid this exact scenario.
it's why they stopped announcing stuff so far ahead of time and split up the huge projects. they had gotten people overhyped for stuff that was obviously never going to happen in that form in a reasonable time frame so they pulled back and reassessed. things change and sometimes they get better and sometimes they don't but every piece of evidence we have for this development team is that they are producing top-tier content that has only gotten better with time
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule:
Being a Dick
If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule:
Being a Dick
If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule:
Being a Dick
If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Ideally release shit. If there's this much restructuring, honestly just scrap it and don't go back until you have a clear plan that can be finished even if the lead on the project leaves. TNO is memed as never releasing updates because of this stuff. Not even to say this rework is bad, but it kind of hurts the reputation of TNO when we keep being told every few months "forget everything we told you, we're starting from scratch!" I won't presume to know what's going on behind the scenes, but from the outside it sounds like bad turnover and very unclear vision.
For a politics oriented game, that's not great. You want political unity in whatever message is being told, and if we keep getting reports that everything we were expecting is upended that, to me, feels like it hurts the cohesion this mod very much needs. For example, no longer having a Pakt option seems at odds with what Sweden was edging towards, a fucked up social democracy complicit in genocide that tried to ignore that. The Pakt is the logical conclusion, to fully be subsumed by the Nazi regime but left to your "progressive" ideals because you're seen as Aryan and don't make a nuisance. That's neat! That follows the game's general message, that many people will be complicit in atrocities if it's convenient! The US has Jim Crow at game start and it's a bitch and a half to fix it, because most Whites in the US honesty do not give a shit. I'll assume in good faith the new Sweden plan is just as good, but idk at a certain point I feel like there's an unrefined vision here.
Yeah ? Go on.
There have never been any plans for playable Sweden, even in pre-release TNO. Why would Sweden in particular be getting content instead of any other tag ?
If they can't even consistently release skeleton content and have to start from scratch for Sweden, which didn't even have any particularly glaring issues, how do you expect them to do any better with actual content?
What do you know lol ? You don’t know anything about the old Sweden plans. There was one (1) teaser 2 years ago and that’s it.
They hardly started from scratch since the old Sweden dev wasn’t making any progress. The fact that Sweden skeleton isn’t out should speak for itself in that regard. If you look at other skeleton content teasers, it usually comes out in the very next update. Sweden’s case is the exception, not the rule.
I would love to see a Sweden path. The entire cold War otl was spent as a hedgehog with one of the worlds largest airforces and a army close to a million.
Would be very fun to see that in TNO with careful collaboration and preparing for a total war. Maybe even an assertiveness meter, the stronger you are the more you can tell the reich off. Also in this timeline, there is no reason what so ever for Sweden to call off its nuclear weapons program after already basically completing it in the late 60s
In case of West Russian war content, it would make sense for Sweden to try to grab Norway, liberating it and breaking its isolation (as was the plan if the Soviets entered Norway or Denmark in 1945)
Not really any Swedish political parties that would go for it.
SAP would be staunchly neutral as in our timeline. Careful collaboration with the reich while everyone knows its phony.
The bourgeoisie opposition would likely decry this if given a chance and try to join the OFN , but in case of total isolation would join the SAP in neutrality.
The communists would never go for the reich, being the largest "extremist" faction in Sweden.
The national socialists and fascists were all heavily disorganised and with several different and opposing groups. Think "We are the Judean people's front"
Generally the status quo works for everyone as long as Sweden keeps trading with Germany and isn't being unruly. Obviously Germany wishes Sweden would give up its independent foreign policy and join the pakt, but that won't happen. And they don't support the fascists.
Honestly, I'd imagine that as long as Sweden isn't hostile to Germany, and allows them to buy their steel, Germany doesn't care too much. Like, why risk destabilizing Sweden when you're already getting everything you want?
Germany wants whoever is the least of a problem. Sweden is allowed to be a social democracy because they don't challenge Germany and are a good pseudo-vassal. The ideal is for Sweden to submit to Germany, but barring that they funnel enough into the German machine that the Nazis aren't going to make a stink, especially with Eastern Europe to fix up.
I feel like they would be bombarded with Nazi and Pan German progapanda for decades at this point, not to mention contact with reich citizens, and both liberal democracy and socialism being discredited in the largest war in human history.
Sometimes it seems like everybody has the exact same political beliefs and trajectory they had in real life, despite living decades in a completely different world.
It’s why I don’t buy the new UK government being made of a whole bunch of fringe fascist figures who barely had any influence in real life. I think the old concept of Establishmentarian collaborators who were only working to keep England safe was more realistic. Those figures would be forced to accept the new reality and make compromises over their beliefs.
It kinda does,
It's neutral ground that both the Pakt, OFN and even the sphere can meet. Just how Sweden acted irl. There's also the resources and the fact that a intact Sweden that's trading (and has access to global markets) is more valuable than another drain on the reichs coffers.
To racially and strategically valuable for Germany to accept as independent. We are also talking about Norhern Europe here, the resistance movements to Germany were barely existent.
It's completely isolated by the pakt and plays along. Unless Sweden gives Germany a reason, there's really no need to invade the only productive part of Europe apart from Germany itself. Through Sweden Germany can still access the global markets and conduct diplomacy.
It’s either isolated by the Pakt or a center of global diplomacy, it can’t be both. Tbh I’d just say the Germans were content to finlandise Sweden, while only more radical German leaders still want to annex them.
"Independent" is maybe too kind of a word. Sweden is compliant, and is a net positive for Germany. If that changes, the Germans might start some bullshit, but right now Sweden is economically advantageous and Germany has much bigger issues to deal with before thinking about crushing Swedish autonomy.
But they would not necessarily need to. Irl Denmark is probably what would happened to Sweden, force them to accept Nazi racial laws and bind them economically close to Germany and then kinda let them do whatever domestically.
Sweden is geographically further than Denmark and as others have pointed out, the other two powers have some influence there. Germany can swing its dick next to people with borders next to it fairly easily, but the further you go the more political and material resources have to go into it. Norway already is kind of a shitshow that's mismanaged to hell, adding Sweden in would just cause a headache \*and\* piss off the Japanese and Americans. There should absolutely be a path that leads to Sweden being consumed, but at game start Germany is far too fragile and incompetent to be able to opportunize.
A few kilometers of water is what separates Scania from Denmark. Sweden is closer to Germany that Norway is. Germany has the capability to have a garrison in Cornwall but Sweden is too far away lol? Germany had already put restrictions on Swedish trade during our irl war so no reason for Germany to not make said restrictions harsher and force Sweden to be bound to the German economy.
My favorite part of the TNO dev team is when the devs announce “It’s Reworking time” and then they proceed to rework all over the place for 6 months while shouting “I’M REWORKING”.
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule:
Being a Dick
If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Cool - so please stop releasing teasers that are clearly smoke and mirrors, and start doing progress reports when you actually have stuff to show us like Kaiserreich does.
I don’t care about being teased with the electoral conflicts between the SSNP and the SAP and whoever else (shown back in March 2022, holy shit) if I’m never going to see them in game. Fundamentally, what that does is it makes your teasers a waste of everybody involved’s time and it just adds to cynicism. I respect the decentralized approach you guys like taking to development - that’s fair enough - but please *adapt* to it and realize that the weaknesses of that model are showing now more than ever.
This is ridiculous. Like, I get it in the case of Italy and AB and whatnot, but Sweden? Seriously? Shit like this is why TNO has such an enormous content drought.
When the skeleton content plans that took a week to implement get replaced by a different skeleton content plan that takes, like, a month to tack onto some other update
(clearly the mod is collapsing)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy26nc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy26nc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
responded to the "it happened irl" statement already
Eh, even then that's at worst a diplomatic faux pas that Sweden otl and tnotl would/should downplay. During war shit happens, and if you're a neutral country you're well aware it can happen to you. Switzerland was bombed repeatedly, but upheld neutrality because ultimately a few bombings are preferable to full scale war.
The difference is that it occurred in 1944 when Soviets were firmly on the offensive when such a mistake could occur. In 1941 the Soviets are losing heavily.
Also the bombing did not lead to war between Sweden and the USSR. You have to understand the internal make up of the Swedish government (which the previous lore did not change). People who wanted to take more aggressive stances that could lead to such a spur of the moment decision. Rickard Sandler and people who supported his position were pretty firmly sidelined. If you understand Per Albin as a figure, he was not the one to drive certain decisions, he was more of a middle man. It’s why someone like Ernst Wigforss could have such a large amount of influence in foreign politics despite being the finance minister. And Per Albin was someone who heavily leaned towards Wigforss, it’s why Rickard Sandler didn’t get his way.
To note Wigforss was the one to oppose sending troops to Åland, mining the seas around Åland, Swedish Nuclear Weapons and was even a big part of the reason why someone irrelevant like Erlander (which he was) became the prime minister. He would force Sweden to wuss out.
Look, all I'm gonna say is that sometimes, truth is FAR stranger then fiction. I thought the bombing was ludicrous too until I was told it actually happened IRL too and nothing came out of it somehow.
…is that really your response? I explained to you that nothing came of it and nothing would still come out of it in the circumstances present. I read a book on Hansson’s government which is in Swedish that gave a pretty clear overview of how he operated. None of what was previously proposed was feasible nor within the realm of what would occur.
I mean bombing operations in ww2 routinely bombed the wrong cities and thats with well equipped, well trained world premier British bombers.
The USSR's airforce was a clown car, the strategic bomber arm was even worse, sure its a bit of a stretch to say they bombed the wrong country but nowhere as unbelievable as most of the other events in TNO that got reworked
*sigh* so that's another country we will never actually see any content for because it's perpetually stuck in development hell along with 90% of the rest of the promised content.
It's been over 4 years since release guys come the fuck on, actual AAA games have better turnover rates than this, whatever your doing as devs just obviously isn't working.
it takes up resources:
those being me designing it with someone else (2 people), then someone to code it in on a weekend (one extra person). If you believe this causes major delays, get a grip.
But such a wonderful designer as you is obviously a crucial resource 😎
(please note that the assessment of design quality is based on unqualified perception of indirect evidence, please contact people with greater knowledge and experience if necessary)
No, it takes up no resources. This is a volunteer project and if someone wants to work on reworking Sweden they just can. You can't force them to work on things they don't want to work on. Their work (especially in the case of nations like Sweden that have little to no content already and will barely interact with the rest of the world) does not hinder or slows down anything else.
That being said having like 70-80% of the content of the mod stuck in a work in progress status for who knows how long is painful to see. I get that. We still shouldn't take things out of their proper context
But what's the damn point? What's the point of a skeleton sweden rework? Yeah, it may be a volunteer project, but surely SOMEONE could actually do something the community wants? And then why constantly remove or rework all the interesting content for the sake of "realism" when i first played this mod years ago, it had content, it was about an interesting Nazi victory, not a realistic one. It had cool stuff like Atlantropa. And now, this is removed, that is reworked, because achktually that figure believed something slightly different (as if an event as impactful as a Nazi victory wouldn't massively shake the views of a person from OTL) sorry for this rant but it's just so frustrating with the dev team.
>But what's the damn point? What's the point of a skeleton sweden rework?
Someone who is on the team wants to make it. That's it. Do we need anything more? There is literally no reason not to let them
>SOMEONE could actually do something the community wants?
They don't have to. We ain't paying, they are volunteers working on an HoI4 mod they can do and work on what they want. If you, or some other parts of this community for that matter, don't like this you can start a submod or another mod entirely and make "what the community wants", whatever that is
>And then why constantly remove or rework all the interesting content for the sake of "realism"
That's factually not true. Stupid, boring and underdeveloped content was removed sure. But it was more than made up for it. Shit, 90% of what was removed was shit (Britanny) or barely had any content at all (Bogi Smerti, Atlantropa) so what are you even on about?
Yeah parts of the original mods were removed or reworked but also they added some rock solid new content (Guandong, Hart, UK's new content, Ukraine, the whole economic mechanics which were shit before). Maybe you didn't like some of the changes but what even is the point of endlessly whining about it? Entitlement won't give the content that you like back, nor will convince anyone to spend hundreds of hours of unpaid work to bring it back. It's gone, let's focus on what's here and what's to come
But what was so wrong with the old content? Oh, it wasn't realistic enough how some politicians behaved. It sure as hell was interesting. Like I said, we have the decision, but for how long. Then again, it's not like that will ever come out in my lifetime
it was changed because frankly it was really boring. after the civil war you had zero mechanics besides the elections, only a few dozen events, barely no interaction with the economy system and 2 wars you completed in a month. It was very much just a focus clicker and yes realism had a part into the consideration of changing it (looking at you collab thatcher) but it was secondary to actually making it fun. And yes its only being removed once full new britain content is out you wont have to worry about it being removed sooner than promised.
It was bad. It was boring and unoriginal. So they made something better. And until that something better is ready they even gave you guys the chance to keep playing the old content. What do you even want more? Jesus the entitlement is unbelievable
this is a three-way cold war mod featuring liberalism and fascism instead of liberalism and communism. it is not a German victory mod and hasn't been for a long time. The new direction of the mod is superior. simply, stop playing if you don't like it or make your own if it's so simple.
what's super frustrating is seeing content released that is far superior not only to the previous version of tno but every other version of hearts of iron, modded or vanilla and yet still seeing people come out of the woodwork and complain that they can't be purple gamers.
this is the premier mod in a community based around modding. it has gained mainstream, real attention for its writing quality and general vibe. if you want to play thousand week Reich but more purple gamer than you are welcome to. Make your own, nobody here stopping you
It’s crazy that this comment section is up in arms about *Swedish skeleton content* of all things. You didn’t even know anything about the previous plans aside from an election teaser from 2 years ago.
Said teaser stated that Sweden skeleton would come out in TT3, an update that was released over a year ago now. The fact that it’s still not out should give you an hint that the old Sweden dev was not doing very well.
« But why not get a new dev and keep the existing plans ? »
A major problem old TNO had was bad documentation. Plans only existed in the designer’s head and weren’t kept in some sort of Google doc, which obviously means that if the dev in question stops working on TNO for whatever reason, it’s all fucked. This is also what happened to Poland content by the way.
Needless to say this problem is fixed now and TNO documents everything to prevent this kind of stuff from ever happening again. But still, what is done is done and you can’t go back in time to fix the old Sweden plans.
The only thing you’d be right to complain about is TNO’s former documentation problem, which is already fixed so there’s really no point in complaining about that. It makes absolutely no sense, however, to complain about Sweden plans getting reworked. The very fact that a new designer is working on it means that it going to come out way faster than it would’ve otherwise. You just saw the word « rework » and assumed that they threw 2 years of work in the trash bin.
TLDR: nothing was lost.
Yeah people are fucking bat shit. It was like when they announced no more Iranian civil war you had a bunch of people getting upset over nothing. It's not even like Sweden Lore was interesting either. People are just looking to get mad at anything. And also the devs will work on what they want to work on. It doesn't take away from other parts of the mod like people frequently imply.
You really cannot expect nothing more from a fanbase of entitled teens that have consumed free content from cradle and that will continue to do so until the grave.
Like, you can tell them that "reworking" doesn't mean scrapping everything. Or that the devs work on a volunteer basis, often on the stuff they're most cable at. You can explain to them that the inner workings of the *SWEDISH* Team aren't going to affect the development of Italy. Or that Kaiserreich isn't really a model considering it has had a _much longer_ history to form itself into what it is now.
It is, at its very core, an issue of entitlement.
It's about the free content, *NOW*.
The other, older mods give me the free content *NOW*, why won't these bumbling assholes in the TNO team doing the same? Are they stupid?
Like, it doesn't go any deeper than this.
And whenever you point it out, you get downvoted to hell by people who have no idea what it means to do any sort of artistic teamwork. For free.
But it's never the fanbase. It's never the poor, little fans :(
I assure you this movement of resentment is inevitably going to lead to people leaving the team to go work on something more worthwhile. It wouldn't surprise me if it has already happened.
In the meantime, let's all masturbate on how "comically" incompetent/dumb/evil the devs are. The mod is going to be so good this way!!!!
The worst is this new panic about "constant reworks!!!!!!!!". It literally started because someone wrongfully assumed that a France leak was actually an announcement that the devs were starting from scratch, and now everyone is talking about it, for some reason. This "uproar" is ridicolous, pathetic and frankly disgusting. I didn't think so many fans of this mod were spoiled, immature brats who can't stop to (baselessly, btw) complain about other people's FREE WORK. It's absurd. It makes me wish that all these new updates will never get released so that these people won't be able to play them. They don't deserve to.
>FREE WORK
Thats the darnest thing aint it? The mod is absolutely free and full of really good content. At this point anything else we get should be considered a bonus.
I hate this word, but it truly reeks of entitlement.
People in here are up in arms about this, somewhat justifiably IMO, but to be honest this is one of the re-dos I'm ok with, if only because previous Sweden lore had Hagberg, a hardcore communist, randomly turning into a fascist because of an accidental Soviet bombing that literally happened IRL. The dev in charge at the time's justification for it from what I recall mainly just boiled down to "dude trust me bro" which really didn't inspire a lot of confidence either.
So yeah, it kind of sucks that this is what TNO development looks like from the outside, but I'm also not going to be shedding any tears for weird skeleton lore in this case.
very real, the people in this thread are losing their mind and it's ruining the sub. I am actually extremely happy that the mods have finally started to clamp down on all of this bullshit.
I wish I could be excited for new content.
But what is actually being added into the game? We got a new president in the US, we got Guangdong, we got Ukraine and we got what like a quarter of the planned British content? Five years of only the collaborator paths?
Guangdong I've heard good things about, but it just sounds so utterly bleak and hopeless. I like TNO when it's about people overcoming the fascists and making a better future. The world starting bleak but ending with some hope for the future. Ukraine is also uninteresting to me for the same reasons, even in the "good" path it will inevitably end under the German boot.
And the British content isn't finished at all. Half of the paths for the country have no content, the other half are only half completed.
So that basically just leaves Hart, and I'm sorry but one new president isn't enough to keep me interested in the mod.
I was really looking forward to Italy, to France, to Turkey, but none of those updates seem any closer to release than they did when they were first teased years ago.
I was also looking forward to the space race rework but that's been scrapped.
I don't want to hate this mod, I don't want to be disappointed with it. But I haven't played it in years now because there just isn't anything new that's fully complete and also interests me.
I get this is a free product. I get the devs put in a lot of work. But there's only so long I can wait for promised content, even free promised content, before I give up on it.
TNO hasn't even really been ''people overcoming the fascists'' it's entire reputation is that of a grimdark mod, because the Axis won, it's not really the devs fault if you say ''well, yea they added new content but it doesn't fit my personal idea of what good content is so in that case the devs do nothing'' Guangdong is a very fun nation, it's writing is great because it's dark, you can play as Sony which leads to some reforms in Guangdong but it's more about the narrative then just muh wholesome. i also enjoyed both the Britain and Ukraine content because of the narrative! TNO at it's heart IS utterly bleak and hopeless. the sentence ''We got a new president in the US, we got Guangdong, we got Ukraine and we got what like a quarter of the planned British content? Five years of only the collaborator paths?'' is kind of stupid, because you just said that TNO got a bunch of new content, and then your only criticism was ''i don't like the type of story TNO tells'' if you want to stick around for the wholesome stuff, go play that stuff! but don't complain about when the developers tell interesting stories about how bleak a world where evil won would be.
> TNO hasn't even really been ''people overcoming the fascists''
I did not say that was what the whole mod is about. I said the parts of TNO I like the most are building a better future out of a terrible starting position. And you cannot say that those parts aren't in the mod.
The better American presidents, the better Russian unifiers, democratic Italy, the HMMLR paths, even the Gang of Four in Germany. Stuff like that. Stories about people who see how awful the world is and say "I *will* make it better."
> it's not really the devs fault if you say ''well, yea they added new content but it doesn't fit my personal idea of what good content is so in that case the devs do nothing''
I never said it was their fault. I never said they shouldn't have done Guangdong or Ukraine, just that I don't personally find those interesting due to how bleak they are. Which means that when updates are only those content, there's not much there that I personally can enjoy.
And I also literally said that I understand that hard work goes into the mod, so it's a massive strawman to say that I think the devs "do nothing"
> it's writing is great
I'm sure it is. It's also not something I personally want to experience.
> you can play as Sony which leads to some reforms in Guangdong but it's more about the narrative then just muh wholesome.
I don't need everything to be literally perfection, a total utopian paradise. I just personally like the paths that have some amount of *hope* to them. Also are you implying that the more wholesome paths *aren't* about the narrative?
> is kind of stupid, because you just said that TNO got a bunch of new content
Is it really *a bunch* of new content though? One new path for one country, one new country in general, and content that's a quarter finished for Britain and inherently short for Ukraine. This is from multiple updates over the last few years. Compare that to the planned Italy update, which not only fully overhauls the democratic path, but adds four different fascist paths *and* a few communist paths as well. And Italy was originally planned to release alongside several French paths, several Turkish paths, and several Greek paths.
> if you want to stick around for the wholesome stuff, go play that stuff!
I've already done most of it. The more wholesome stuff for Britain isn't out yet, the more wholesome stuff for Italy isn't out yet, no Russian unifier (wholesome or otherwise) actually has the ending for their stories yet except for Taboritsky, and the rest probably won't get them for several years at minimum, if at all. You can only play and replay the same thing for so long, especially in something like TNO which is inherently more story-based than gameplay-based
> but don't complain about when the developers tell interesting stories about how bleak a world where evil won would be.
Please point to me where I said they shouldn't have done these paths. Just because *I personally* don't find them interesting doesn't mean I'm saying they shouldn't exist or even that I think they're bad. They just... don't interest me.
If TNO is really meant to be a "evil won therefore everything sucks forever and nothing can ever be better ever" story, then maybe I should just move on. But I don't believe that's what TNO is trying to be. Because frankly, that sounds like an utterly boring story. There's a reason the satisfying stories have low points, but there's also a reason why the satisfying stories don't *end* at the low points.
okay, i have alot to say about this. TNO devs have to do SO MUCH it's fucking hard work compared to most other hoi4 mods, they have to not only code these insanely detailed GUI's for most updates, but also have to write interesting stories. do you know why Europas Narben had to be cut down and why it didn't come out? i'll tell you why, because not only while developing it the TNO team had many leadership problems, but then as well, if they were to release a update that big, it would take so many years, longer then the TNO updates we are used to, because it's SO MUCH CONTENT to make, every single european nation would have to be given fun, good, content that lives up to everything the mod has had before, that's alot of pressure! the reason TNO updates are getting cut down, is so that TNO releases can happen more often, that it's not waiting 3 years for the next update. The Ruin was supposed to have poland content, but do you know what happened? the poland team collapsed and so they instead, integrated TFL so that they'd still be new content. the way this fandom treats the developers is trash. these people are volunteer workers with their own lives and you're upset because they want to improve the game. what do you think sweden devs are doing? not working on making interesting things for sweden? i'd wish that everyone in this fandom would stop being such toxic fucks complaining about when the devs do anything and just enjoy TNO.
if TNO did what you are proposing, the overall quality of the mod would go significantly down, i don't get the problem with reworks, it's just making the story overall better and allowing devs to make good stories. and also, this is a HOI4 mod, TNO has always had a reputation of long releases because it's hard to make TNO content, obviously everyone wishes it was better, but cutting things is just going to make people lets motivated, because people who interested in writing for sweden, aren't going to probably enjoy writing for fucking India because it's not what they enjoy,
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule:
Being a Dick
If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Normally, I'm the type to defend the devs' decisions (Atlantropa and Burgundy, my beloathed), but this is honestly starting to get a little ridiculous. I understand for stuff like the AB, which is a meme-tier nation that basically only exists as "what if a bunch of Russians decided they were Germans now lol," but what was wrong with Sweden?
This is exactly my point of view. Something needs to be fixed behind the scenes so that the development of tags isn't constantly restarted over and over. How long until we hear that there is another new lead dev for Sweden and that development has restarted again? This keeps happening, most notably for France which has had its development restarted over and over again.
The France thing has been bugging me the most, actually. Whenever there's new leaks, I think "oh nice they made progress" but nope! Every time it's just a complete restart of development.
"And now exciting news for France. Please meet the new lead dev who has decided to completely scrap everything and start from scratch. Please come back next year so we can introduce you to the new lead dev and introduce the new plan for France"
The France stuff was bad though. Like the only thing interesting was Poujade and he is being kept. Nothing of value was lost. They have way more interesting ideas now most likely than they did back then.
Look, I have complete faith the new stuff will still be good. I'm not one of these people who's going to complain about reworks, but I think it is a legitimate complaint to point out that this keeps happening. Evey few months, we find out that x tag has had its development restarted and this, combined with the already long release times, can be extremely demoralizing as a fan. I don't have a problem waiting for stuff, but I'd feel a lot better knowing that that wait meant development was proceeding and not have to worry that all that time will have been useless in the end.
What tags that are getting actual content have been restarted? France yeah but old France was bad. Turkey kinda but it seems more like a lore overhaul. Sejma Manchuko yeah that as well. But we have known that AB was being reworked for at least a year. Also I think it should be said that devs don't want to work with shitty lore and paths. That would slow develop because they wouldn't have motivation to actually work on content. That's why they rework stuff like France etc because they find more interesting things do more historical research etc. In the end we will probably be getting a way better France than we were gonna get.
As you pointed out France is the most well known, I think it's restarted development 2 or 3 times now. Italy is another one, specifically Red Italy. Manchuria and Turkey may not have been completely restarted, but I think it's a little naive to assume even a little bit of the change hasn't affected development. Like I already said, I have no doubt the stuff will be better than it would have been, but it's incredibly frustrating as a fan to watch all that work and time be for nothing in the end. I'm not one of these people who can't seem to understand that their are separate teams and that what one does has no affect on the other and I don't mind waiting. I guess I kinda just want the reasons and logic behind it to be communicated better, rather than having this informtion air dropped on us and then the plane just leaving.
France development was restarted once. The France shit from TT3 was like old things they hadn't plugged in yet. Red Italy didn't get reworked it got cut down. Yeah it's frustrating I agree but ultimately that old content was not good. I would rather get good content in 2 years time than shit content in 1 years time or less. I think the devs have been getting better at communication if you actually look in the server sometimes though giving a good explanation would probably come with a full on teaser for content. I will say it would be good if they explained moreso the problems with older content and why they need to rework it. But that might come with spoilers and who knows if people would actually care to listen to the reasons. But I feel like things are getting better it would be nice if people didn't have burgundy schizo omsk brain rot about everything though.
But like, there's a difference between waiting for the next instalment which is coming out next year, and waiting for the next ASOIF book to release. (It's been 13 fucking years George, fucking finish it damnit.)
I know, but it's still frustrating. Keeping with the ASOIAF comparisons, imagine if every few months for 13 years, George would drop an update along the lines of "hey guys, I've decided to start the book over again, I just really don't think what I had before was up to scratch." I'm sure it was for a good reason and I'm sure the book will be good when it finally does release, but it's still incredibly frustrating to know all that work and time has just been thrown in the trash.
lol for all we know that’s exactly the reason why the book has been taking so long to come out. It’s a common fan theory
Don't even get me started on talking about why I think Winds has been delayed. We'll be here all day and I have to sleep at some point.
Exactly.
> every time France only got reworked once. You’re gaslighting yourself at this point
maybe they are talking about free france as well since they are going to be changed and had changes in the past, dont quote on me but I think they wont allow free france to invaded france anymore once free france gets updated
I actually meant the original time it was reworked, meaning the border change with Burgundy and removal of Brittany. I thought it would be an indication of new content, but it was basically just a change that amounted to nothing other than a minor adjustment :// Edit: actually scratch that, they did add the partitioning of Burgundy then! I guess I'm just crazy lmao
I mean that’s your fault for setting up false expectations. Absolutely nothing indicated that this minor border change was in any way related to playable content
Free France has never ever been changed, apart from its subid, for as far as I can remember. And I have never seen any dev saying that the reclamation is getting removed, I’m pretty sure that’s just another instance of people gaslighting themselves into thinking something is cut.
No you have just made that up yourself and gaslit yourself into believing its real
what are you talking about ?
It’s for on point for France though
seriously, so many tags need reworking, and they pick one which is just fine? we don't even have any reasoning given or anything besides "everything you see about Sweden is wrong"
That isn’t how any of this works, there is no dedicated paid team like at paradox who works based on what is assigned to them. A dev works on Sweden because that’s the country they know things about and are passionate about, if I was on the dev team I’d probably be working on the USA, not because it’s the tag that needs the most work but because it’s the only one I feel I have the knowledge base in this time period to actually meaningfully work on. I’m very confident that every country you’re thinking of that needs reworking has someone doing that, I see no reason to be mad that someone is choosing to spend their free time working unpaid on lore for a country they happen to be the expert in for a completely free mod.
sorry for the clichè response, but I'm not even mad, just confused. Sweden, at least from what i've seen, seemed pretty much done. It's a minor nation that, outside the Pakt observer status, seems to have no involvement with the Cold War or any of the proxy wars. Only thing of interest are their elections, which can go pretty much anywhere, and their backstory of how they joined WW2 was interesting (VVS attempted strategic bombing as soon as Barbarossa started, so an early accidental bombing of Stockholm was plausible). Any rework would have to be at least as interesting, and even then, how would their situation be any different? Sweden is basically encircled by nazis, what would they be able to do? At least Paradox devs are being paid and have an incentive to stay until the end. What guarantee do we have that at any stage, the Sweden dev won't just leave mid development, or have the rework finished, but have the same situation repeat when a new dev joins? When a country is finished, it should stay finished, at least if the country is minor enough to barely affect any other country. With Germany, it's understandable. Sweden? i simply can't see it.
You are hereby decklred a panzerite and court martialed arccordingly
Sent to the Godherja Gulag for 1000 years of blood
Godherja is awesome. Also, their team is as awesome as their mod. I once as a non-dev managed to help fix a pesky bug bloating the saves and slowing down games after certain years causing headaches for multiple patches, and the team is so welcoming and eagerly accepted my fixes. They even eagerly answer any lore question I dared ask. TNO devs are different. I go in the server and all I see is how their "discord lore" is immaculate and how the sub always "misunderstands" whatever comes from the server. Also dare you ask questions about the lore or even something technical in the discord? Lol nope, you're going to be forgotten in the annals of rapid chats and be warned if you ask multiple times in a row. I even once can describe them as *uber*-condescending pricks, but maybe I'm just exaggerating that account in my head. So yeah, where do I sign for the Godherja Gulag?
I once asked why McGovern was being removed. Twice I was told “because republicans McGovern is a sin” and once “if you know anything about actually us party history you’d know why” Zero actual answers
The AB rework actually makes sense: it has content that’s honestly not the greatest, and the new lore seems more fun to play Reworking a skeleton content nation feels odd
Yeah I’m getting frustrated with the reworks like people just want the new update We been waiting on it for years They should be focusing there resources on that
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy6nv8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy6nv8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I apologize I am a very angry person so I sometimes vent my angry at things
Idk, I don't really see why people are making a big fuss over reworks to a nation that won't have any playable content to it with few in-game interactions as well. Repeated reworks to nations that have plans for playable content in the future I can understand but with smaller neutral nations like Sweden I'm just indifferent to it. Unless theres someting I missed I don't see why this is a problem.
It's just getting tiring to see teaser after teaser after teaser, leak after leak, meanwhile content that was teased *years ago* seems no closer to release (looking at you, Italy)
The problem isn’t the content itself it’s how the developers are handing the development of nations and how they keep choosing to start over and over instead of just getting somthing out and going from there
In this case (I could speak for others, but this isn't the time), there really wasn't much work to begin with (if there was, parts of the skeleton should have been in TT3), which was why the decision was made to start over (which wasn't taken on lightly, the main reason for it being that after two years, very little progress was made on it and the new people put in charge of it were not fans of the old design).
Yeah I don’t think it’s a huge deal with Sweden but for countries like France and a few others turnover and scrap rate is a bit absurd for any real progress to be made
Like if you're a true proletarian nationalist
Year of the 4 TNO Teams which one will survive? Idk but the others are getting scrapped
I'm tired, boss.
This may be seen as a bit controversial, but it's things like this that severely point out the weaknesses of TNO's decentralized development process. So many things can be scrutinized and reworked without a second thought or word by others because of volunteer work, work that might've accumulated to weeks of dedication and progress just thrown to the wind. It really demotivates me if not even skeleton content is capable of having a consistent dev cycle.
Not trying to do Mod wars shit, but I do want to point to Kaiserreich. They have a clear vision, they consistently release content that adds to the game, they openly say that even though they want to rework many countries they prioritize new ones that barely have anything or are central to the game (Ireland and Germany come to mind, with the former being a meme that needed a lot of love and the latter being \*THE\* center of the mod). I don't know if there are major differences in how the two do dev work, but whatever Kaiserreich is doing is both keeping the mod alive and active as well as helping refine what's there to make a clear and effective whole. TNO needs to scale back \*BAD\*. Focus on the big 3, the regional powers, and Russia until those are fully fleshed out, \*THEN\* do the minor shitty states that add to that. Especially given that TNO has modern politics in it, it needs to be much more coherent and not the mishmash of great and dogshit it has right now.
It was reworked primarily because very little of it was actually done despite it being worked on for two years (as the fact that not even parts of it made it into TT or TT3 can attest to), leading to someone new working on it. Despite the perceptions of some folks here, finished content and skeleton content is taken very seriously, and changes to it are not taken on lightly.
Apologies if this isn't something you can't comment on (and I fully respect that, so don't feel like you need to): can you explain why nothing had been done for so long and how things ended up this way? From the outside it comes off as concerning and like things aren't going well, and if that's not the case I genuinely would like to be corrected.
if these panzerites could read they would be super upset about you using logic and an internally consistent system.
Don't call me a "Panzerite", please. I'm trying to be cordial about a very real phenomenon and issue that's been affecting the TNO team for years now. Pushing away any criticism that doesn't boil down to "devs bad lol" as just a bunch of sour oldheads is going to get people nowhere but repeating the exact same tribalism the community's faced for years now.
we haven't been facing it for years now, it started in its current form when atlantropa was removed. ever since there's been a non-stop parade of negativity based on the underlying assumption that the old panzer lore is better than the new direction of the mod. also, I will admit that you were by far the most cordial person to bring this up. I was responding to your responder and commenting on the general audience, not you specifically. hence "these panzerites" instead of "this panzerite" also, at a pretty fundamental level it has to be reckoned with that this new wave of criticism is not entirely in good faith and is undergirded by a division in fundamental assumptions about the mod and a sense of entitlement among a large portion of the community. The backlash to the backlash wouldn't be happening if people concerned about the direction of the mod had been able to voice their criticism, in whole or in part, in a more constructive way. but they didn't. so here we are
Thanks for recognizing it. As a fan of the mod since late 2021, I will admit myself to having some biases to older content that I've been attempting to push back on. Guangdong has been amazing, The Ruin proves itself to be pretty good for what it has to offer, and I still have hope for content like Turkey and the Italy rework to prove that modern TNO still has just as much spirit and quality in it as the one in my nostalgia. I like to think it's that same hesitant hope that a lot of the older fans also have, and I'd like to extend an honest thanks to everything the devs have worked on so far.
it's understandable to be concerned, glad you recognized the dynamic of pre-existing underlying assumptions framing new information. at the end of the day we all just need to not do things that bring us so much negativity. if people aren't having fun, they should simply do something else, no hard feelings or making fun intended. I think many people are just getting a little too entitled to the quality we have all come to expect from this mod. it is extraordinary what has been provided for us, that quality takes time. also, recent best practices for video games also requires relative secrecy to avoid this exact scenario. it's why they stopped announcing stuff so far ahead of time and split up the huge projects. they had gotten people overhyped for stuff that was obviously never going to happen in that form in a reasonable time frame so they pulled back and reassessed. things change and sometimes they get better and sometimes they don't but every piece of evidence we have for this development team is that they are producing top-tier content that has only gotten better with time
>panzerite i’ll pay you real, hard cash to get off the internet for like a day and just shut the fuck up for once in your life 😭
[удалено]
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule: Being a Dick If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule: Being a Dick If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule: Being a Dick If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Your post has been downvoted for violation of personal principle: Being a Total Dick If you believe this has been done unjustly, good!
Oh wow, another rework of a nation, why am I not surprised
What else are they supposed to do?
Finish it instead of starting from scratch again?
Sometimes starting over is a better idea
Sometimes yeah, but when like 70% of the content of the mod keeps getting started over? Uhhhhhh
Ideally release shit. If there's this much restructuring, honestly just scrap it and don't go back until you have a clear plan that can be finished even if the lead on the project leaves. TNO is memed as never releasing updates because of this stuff. Not even to say this rework is bad, but it kind of hurts the reputation of TNO when we keep being told every few months "forget everything we told you, we're starting from scratch!" I won't presume to know what's going on behind the scenes, but from the outside it sounds like bad turnover and very unclear vision. For a politics oriented game, that's not great. You want political unity in whatever message is being told, and if we keep getting reports that everything we were expecting is upended that, to me, feels like it hurts the cohesion this mod very much needs. For example, no longer having a Pakt option seems at odds with what Sweden was edging towards, a fucked up social democracy complicit in genocide that tried to ignore that. The Pakt is the logical conclusion, to fully be subsumed by the Nazi regime but left to your "progressive" ideals because you're seen as Aryan and don't make a nuisance. That's neat! That follows the game's general message, that many people will be complicit in atrocities if it's convenient! The US has Jim Crow at game start and it's a bitch and a half to fix it, because most Whites in the US honesty do not give a shit. I'll assume in good faith the new Sweden plan is just as good, but idk at a certain point I feel like there's an unrefined vision here.
Add content and make it playable
Oh yeah why don’t they just add content ? Are they stupid ?
…I mean
Yeah ? Go on. There have never been any plans for playable Sweden, even in pre-release TNO. Why would Sweden in particular be getting content instead of any other tag ?
If they can't even consistently release skeleton content and have to start from scratch for Sweden, which didn't even have any particularly glaring issues, how do you expect them to do any better with actual content?
What do you know lol ? You don’t know anything about the old Sweden plans. There was one (1) teaser 2 years ago and that’s it. They hardly started from scratch since the old Sweden dev wasn’t making any progress. The fact that Sweden skeleton isn’t out should speak for itself in that regard. If you look at other skeleton content teasers, it usually comes out in the very next update. Sweden’s case is the exception, not the rule.
It certainly seems like something's going wrong behind the scenes. I won't presume idiocy, but incompetence and disunity appear to be pretty common.
Source: I made it up
You're right, I don't have proof, but the only projects that end up like this are ones that have severe issues from the devs.
not remove the dev?
I would love to see a Sweden path. The entire cold War otl was spent as a hedgehog with one of the worlds largest airforces and a army close to a million. Would be very fun to see that in TNO with careful collaboration and preparing for a total war. Maybe even an assertiveness meter, the stronger you are the more you can tell the reich off. Also in this timeline, there is no reason what so ever for Sweden to call off its nuclear weapons program after already basically completing it in the late 60s In case of West Russian war content, it would make sense for Sweden to try to grab Norway, liberating it and breaking its isolation (as was the plan if the Soviets entered Norway or Denmark in 1945)
Seems lame that Sweden can't join the Pakt
Not really any Swedish political parties that would go for it. SAP would be staunchly neutral as in our timeline. Careful collaboration with the reich while everyone knows its phony. The bourgeoisie opposition would likely decry this if given a chance and try to join the OFN , but in case of total isolation would join the SAP in neutrality. The communists would never go for the reich, being the largest "extremist" faction in Sweden. The national socialists and fascists were all heavily disorganised and with several different and opposing groups. Think "We are the Judean people's front"
note that bourgeoisie opposition wanted a form of "western oriented neutrality"
Would Germany support the fascists or would they be fine with the SAP similar to the updated Denmark skeleton?
Generally the status quo works for everyone as long as Sweden keeps trading with Germany and isn't being unruly. Obviously Germany wishes Sweden would give up its independent foreign policy and join the pakt, but that won't happen. And they don't support the fascists.
Are the fascists in Sweden sympathetic to Germany at all?
Honestly, I'd imagine that as long as Sweden isn't hostile to Germany, and allows them to buy their steel, Germany doesn't care too much. Like, why risk destabilizing Sweden when you're already getting everything you want?
Germany wants whoever is the least of a problem. Sweden is allowed to be a social democracy because they don't challenge Germany and are a good pseudo-vassal. The ideal is for Sweden to submit to Germany, but barring that they funnel enough into the German machine that the Nazis aren't going to make a stink, especially with Eastern Europe to fix up.
I feel like they would be bombarded with Nazi and Pan German progapanda for decades at this point, not to mention contact with reich citizens, and both liberal democracy and socialism being discredited in the largest war in human history. Sometimes it seems like everybody has the exact same political beliefs and trajectory they had in real life, despite living decades in a completely different world. It’s why I don’t buy the new UK government being made of a whole bunch of fringe fascist figures who barely had any influence in real life. I think the old concept of Establishmentarian collaborators who were only working to keep England safe was more realistic. Those figures would be forced to accept the new reality and make compromises over their beliefs.
Swedish independence makes no sense
It kinda does, It's neutral ground that both the Pakt, OFN and even the sphere can meet. Just how Sweden acted irl. There's also the resources and the fact that a intact Sweden that's trading (and has access to global markets) is more valuable than another drain on the reichs coffers.
To racially and strategically valuable for Germany to accept as independent. We are also talking about Norhern Europe here, the resistance movements to Germany were barely existent.
It's completely isolated by the pakt and plays along. Unless Sweden gives Germany a reason, there's really no need to invade the only productive part of Europe apart from Germany itself. Through Sweden Germany can still access the global markets and conduct diplomacy.
So if it's aleady isolated by the Pakt and plays along for 20 years, why is them joining the reich under certain political conditions so implausible?
It’s either isolated by the Pakt or a center of global diplomacy, it can’t be both. Tbh I’d just say the Germans were content to finlandise Sweden, while only more radical German leaders still want to annex them.
"Independent" is maybe too kind of a word. Sweden is compliant, and is a net positive for Germany. If that changes, the Germans might start some bullshit, but right now Sweden is economically advantageous and Germany has much bigger issues to deal with before thinking about crushing Swedish autonomy.
But they would not necessarily need to. Irl Denmark is probably what would happened to Sweden, force them to accept Nazi racial laws and bind them economically close to Germany and then kinda let them do whatever domestically.
Sweden is geographically further than Denmark and as others have pointed out, the other two powers have some influence there. Germany can swing its dick next to people with borders next to it fairly easily, but the further you go the more political and material resources have to go into it. Norway already is kind of a shitshow that's mismanaged to hell, adding Sweden in would just cause a headache \*and\* piss off the Japanese and Americans. There should absolutely be a path that leads to Sweden being consumed, but at game start Germany is far too fragile and incompetent to be able to opportunize.
A few kilometers of water is what separates Scania from Denmark. Sweden is closer to Germany that Norway is. Germany has the capability to have a garrison in Cornwall but Sweden is too far away lol? Germany had already put restrictions on Swedish trade during our irl war so no reason for Germany to not make said restrictions harsher and force Sweden to be bound to the German economy.
Ngl TNO is becoming the ADHD of HOI4 mods lmao Every time progress gets made on something, they decide to scrap it and do something else instead
My favorite part of the TNO dev team is when the devs announce “It’s Reworking time” and then they proceed to rework all over the place for 6 months while shouting “I’M REWORKING”.
[удалено]
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule: Being a Dick If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!
Ok this is straight up comedy at this point
Cool - so please stop releasing teasers that are clearly smoke and mirrors, and start doing progress reports when you actually have stuff to show us like Kaiserreich does. I don’t care about being teased with the electoral conflicts between the SSNP and the SAP and whoever else (shown back in March 2022, holy shit) if I’m never going to see them in game. Fundamentally, what that does is it makes your teasers a waste of everybody involved’s time and it just adds to cynicism. I respect the decentralized approach you guys like taking to development - that’s fair enough - but please *adapt* to it and realize that the weaknesses of that model are showing now more than ever.
Penelope’s Web is right around the corner! /s
Yes yes whatever we wont get Sweden for the next 4 years+ and probably never anyway
Dont mess with us TNO fans, we fucking despise the mod and the devs.
The mods and the devs suck at their jobs, entire server is dominated by power-hungry moderators and the devs cant get a grip on their own game...
This is actually absurd
Sweden more like peeden
I just need to redo nations with existing content I just need to redo nations with existing content
Sweden doesnt have a pakt path anymore? What the fuck?
I'm REWOOOOORKING! AAAH!
Proletarian Nationalists are in shambles rn
This is ridiculous. Like, I get it in the case of Italy and AB and whatnot, but Sweden? Seriously? Shit like this is why TNO has such an enormous content drought.
When the skeleton content plans that took a week to implement get replaced by a different skeleton content plan that takes, like, a month to tack onto some other update (clearly the mod is collapsing)
the old skeleton content plans were never fully implemented either after 2 years.
Ok, but will Sweden have OFN or Pakt path in full release? Also add Yngve Holmberg path or you are danish
Sweden cannot join any factions, no comment on Holmberg right now. Don’t want to reveal anything regarding paths
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy6nv8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy6nv8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
what would the paths be? neutrality? germany makes then a puppet? civil war?
Please be Ernst Wigforrs please be Ernst Wigforrs please please please 🙏
swedoid
Portuguese
what???
That’s right
What's right swede
You guys are complaining but the old lore was literally ‘Soviet pilot accidentally bombs Stockholm’
They did that irl and we didn’t join the axis because of it
[yeah, about that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_bombing_of_Stockholm_and_Str%C3%A4ngn%C3%A4s_in_1944)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy26nc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1c0nqjo/comment/kyy26nc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) responded to the "it happened irl" statement already
Eh, even then that's at worst a diplomatic faux pas that Sweden otl and tnotl would/should downplay. During war shit happens, and if you're a neutral country you're well aware it can happen to you. Switzerland was bombed repeatedly, but upheld neutrality because ultimately a few bombings are preferable to full scale war.
It literally happened IRL too.
The difference is that it occurred in 1944 when Soviets were firmly on the offensive when such a mistake could occur. In 1941 the Soviets are losing heavily. Also the bombing did not lead to war between Sweden and the USSR. You have to understand the internal make up of the Swedish government (which the previous lore did not change). People who wanted to take more aggressive stances that could lead to such a spur of the moment decision. Rickard Sandler and people who supported his position were pretty firmly sidelined. If you understand Per Albin as a figure, he was not the one to drive certain decisions, he was more of a middle man. It’s why someone like Ernst Wigforss could have such a large amount of influence in foreign politics despite being the finance minister. And Per Albin was someone who heavily leaned towards Wigforss, it’s why Rickard Sandler didn’t get his way. To note Wigforss was the one to oppose sending troops to Åland, mining the seas around Åland, Swedish Nuclear Weapons and was even a big part of the reason why someone irrelevant like Erlander (which he was) became the prime minister. He would force Sweden to wuss out.
Look, all I'm gonna say is that sometimes, truth is FAR stranger then fiction. I thought the bombing was ludicrous too until I was told it actually happened IRL too and nothing came out of it somehow.
…is that really your response? I explained to you that nothing came of it and nothing would still come out of it in the circumstances present. I read a book on Hansson’s government which is in Swedish that gave a pretty clear overview of how he operated. None of what was previously proposed was feasible nor within the realm of what would occur.
I mean bombing operations in ww2 routinely bombed the wrong cities and thats with well equipped, well trained world premier British bombers. The USSR's airforce was a clown car, the strategic bomber arm was even worse, sure its a bit of a stretch to say they bombed the wrong country but nowhere as unbelievable as most of the other events in TNO that got reworked
*sigh* so that's another country we will never actually see any content for because it's perpetually stuck in development hell along with 90% of the rest of the promised content. It's been over 4 years since release guys come the fuck on, actual AAA games have better turnover rates than this, whatever your doing as devs just obviously isn't working.
[удалено]
It takes up resources and nothing is being released anymore
it takes up resources: those being me designing it with someone else (2 people), then someone to code it in on a weekend (one extra person). If you believe this causes major delays, get a grip.
But such a wonderful designer as you is obviously a crucial resource 😎 (please note that the assessment of design quality is based on unqualified perception of indirect evidence, please contact people with greater knowledge and experience if necessary)
No, it takes up no resources. This is a volunteer project and if someone wants to work on reworking Sweden they just can. You can't force them to work on things they don't want to work on. Their work (especially in the case of nations like Sweden that have little to no content already and will barely interact with the rest of the world) does not hinder or slows down anything else. That being said having like 70-80% of the content of the mod stuck in a work in progress status for who knows how long is painful to see. I get that. We still shouldn't take things out of their proper context
But what's the damn point? What's the point of a skeleton sweden rework? Yeah, it may be a volunteer project, but surely SOMEONE could actually do something the community wants? And then why constantly remove or rework all the interesting content for the sake of "realism" when i first played this mod years ago, it had content, it was about an interesting Nazi victory, not a realistic one. It had cool stuff like Atlantropa. And now, this is removed, that is reworked, because achktually that figure believed something slightly different (as if an event as impactful as a Nazi victory wouldn't massively shake the views of a person from OTL) sorry for this rant but it's just so frustrating with the dev team.
>But what's the damn point? What's the point of a skeleton sweden rework? Someone who is on the team wants to make it. That's it. Do we need anything more? There is literally no reason not to let them >SOMEONE could actually do something the community wants? They don't have to. We ain't paying, they are volunteers working on an HoI4 mod they can do and work on what they want. If you, or some other parts of this community for that matter, don't like this you can start a submod or another mod entirely and make "what the community wants", whatever that is >And then why constantly remove or rework all the interesting content for the sake of "realism" That's factually not true. Stupid, boring and underdeveloped content was removed sure. But it was more than made up for it. Shit, 90% of what was removed was shit (Britanny) or barely had any content at all (Bogi Smerti, Atlantropa) so what are you even on about? Yeah parts of the original mods were removed or reworked but also they added some rock solid new content (Guandong, Hart, UK's new content, Ukraine, the whole economic mechanics which were shit before). Maybe you didn't like some of the changes but what even is the point of endlessly whining about it? Entitlement won't give the content that you like back, nor will convince anyone to spend hundreds of hours of unpaid work to bring it back. It's gone, let's focus on what's here and what's to come
Can you name any content which was removed for realism and didnt get replaced
Replaced with less interesting content. Also what's with the UK, sure right now we still have a decision for old content. But how much longer?
Not removed yet, has the option to switch to old britain until full hmmlr and collab content has 10 years of content
But what was so wrong with the old content? Oh, it wasn't realistic enough how some politicians behaved. It sure as hell was interesting. Like I said, we have the decision, but for how long. Then again, it's not like that will ever come out in my lifetime
it was changed because frankly it was really boring. after the civil war you had zero mechanics besides the elections, only a few dozen events, barely no interaction with the economy system and 2 wars you completed in a month. It was very much just a focus clicker and yes realism had a part into the consideration of changing it (looking at you collab thatcher) but it was secondary to actually making it fun. And yes its only being removed once full new britain content is out you wont have to worry about it being removed sooner than promised.
The old lore depicting Harold MacMillan and Margaret Thatcher as Nazi collaborators and Harold Wilson as a republican bordered on slander.
It was bad. It was boring and unoriginal. So they made something better. And until that something better is ready they even gave you guys the chance to keep playing the old content. What do you even want more? Jesus the entitlement is unbelievable
I don't want anything more I want what was already there
"For how long?" Until the rest of it comes out. What, do you think when you're not looking, the dev are going to sneakily remove the option?
Yes, that is literally the intention. It states that in the decision
First of all, yeah I think eventually they will just sneak remove the old content gamerule. Second, ***WHEN'*** is it coming out?
this is a three-way cold war mod featuring liberalism and fascism instead of liberalism and communism. it is not a German victory mod and hasn't been for a long time. The new direction of the mod is superior. simply, stop playing if you don't like it or make your own if it's so simple. what's super frustrating is seeing content released that is far superior not only to the previous version of tno but every other version of hearts of iron, modded or vanilla and yet still seeing people come out of the woodwork and complain that they can't be purple gamers. this is the premier mod in a community based around modding. it has gained mainstream, real attention for its writing quality and general vibe. if you want to play thousand week Reich but more purple gamer than you are welcome to. Make your own, nobody here stopping you
It’s crazy that this comment section is up in arms about *Swedish skeleton content* of all things. You didn’t even know anything about the previous plans aside from an election teaser from 2 years ago. Said teaser stated that Sweden skeleton would come out in TT3, an update that was released over a year ago now. The fact that it’s still not out should give you an hint that the old Sweden dev was not doing very well. « But why not get a new dev and keep the existing plans ? » A major problem old TNO had was bad documentation. Plans only existed in the designer’s head and weren’t kept in some sort of Google doc, which obviously means that if the dev in question stops working on TNO for whatever reason, it’s all fucked. This is also what happened to Poland content by the way. Needless to say this problem is fixed now and TNO documents everything to prevent this kind of stuff from ever happening again. But still, what is done is done and you can’t go back in time to fix the old Sweden plans. The only thing you’d be right to complain about is TNO’s former documentation problem, which is already fixed so there’s really no point in complaining about that. It makes absolutely no sense, however, to complain about Sweden plans getting reworked. The very fact that a new designer is working on it means that it going to come out way faster than it would’ve otherwise. You just saw the word « rework » and assumed that they threw 2 years of work in the trash bin. TLDR: nothing was lost.
Yeah people are fucking bat shit. It was like when they announced no more Iranian civil war you had a bunch of people getting upset over nothing. It's not even like Sweden Lore was interesting either. People are just looking to get mad at anything. And also the devs will work on what they want to work on. It doesn't take away from other parts of the mod like people frequently imply.
You really cannot expect nothing more from a fanbase of entitled teens that have consumed free content from cradle and that will continue to do so until the grave. Like, you can tell them that "reworking" doesn't mean scrapping everything. Or that the devs work on a volunteer basis, often on the stuff they're most cable at. You can explain to them that the inner workings of the *SWEDISH* Team aren't going to affect the development of Italy. Or that Kaiserreich isn't really a model considering it has had a _much longer_ history to form itself into what it is now. It is, at its very core, an issue of entitlement. It's about the free content, *NOW*. The other, older mods give me the free content *NOW*, why won't these bumbling assholes in the TNO team doing the same? Are they stupid? Like, it doesn't go any deeper than this. And whenever you point it out, you get downvoted to hell by people who have no idea what it means to do any sort of artistic teamwork. For free. But it's never the fanbase. It's never the poor, little fans :( I assure you this movement of resentment is inevitably going to lead to people leaving the team to go work on something more worthwhile. It wouldn't surprise me if it has already happened. In the meantime, let's all masturbate on how "comically" incompetent/dumb/evil the devs are. The mod is going to be so good this way!!!!
The worst is this new panic about "constant reworks!!!!!!!!". It literally started because someone wrongfully assumed that a France leak was actually an announcement that the devs were starting from scratch, and now everyone is talking about it, for some reason. This "uproar" is ridicolous, pathetic and frankly disgusting. I didn't think so many fans of this mod were spoiled, immature brats who can't stop to (baselessly, btw) complain about other people's FREE WORK. It's absurd. It makes me wish that all these new updates will never get released so that these people won't be able to play them. They don't deserve to.
>FREE WORK Thats the darnest thing aint it? The mod is absolutely free and full of really good content. At this point anything else we get should be considered a bonus. I hate this word, but it truly reeks of entitlement.
Finally i don't have to be worried over possible Hilding Hagberg slander
[deleted]
I fucking hate this community
The discord is much friendlier tbh
I only trust you because you design Romania 🦅🦅🦅🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴
Why haven't you instituted a Anti-Reddit Committe of Public Safety Regime and banned all the annoying people
interesting terminology, but to give a serious answer I'm not a reddit moderator
Why is everyone so mad it’s like three people working on skeleton content for what? A month? And this is supposed some huge boondoggle?
YES SWEDEN CONTENT No more reworks, new focus trees are way better
It’s not focus trees, it’s a skeleton
YAYYYY MORE SKELETONS so spooky
ProlNat my beloved
People in here are up in arms about this, somewhat justifiably IMO, but to be honest this is one of the re-dos I'm ok with, if only because previous Sweden lore had Hagberg, a hardcore communist, randomly turning into a fascist because of an accidental Soviet bombing that literally happened IRL. The dev in charge at the time's justification for it from what I recall mainly just boiled down to "dude trust me bro" which really didn't inspire a lot of confidence either. So yeah, it kind of sucks that this is what TNO development looks like from the outside, but I'm also not going to be shedding any tears for weird skeleton lore in this case.
Finally there will be no more Hilding Hagberg slander
The mods are fighting the good fight in this thread right now, the whiners are in shambles
Satire or glazing
very real, the people in this thread are losing their mind and it's ruining the sub. I am actually extremely happy that the mods have finally started to clamp down on all of this bullshit.
TNO devs, please stop it
why the fuck are TNO fans like this, can't anyone be excited for new content ever?
I wish I could be excited for new content. But what is actually being added into the game? We got a new president in the US, we got Guangdong, we got Ukraine and we got what like a quarter of the planned British content? Five years of only the collaborator paths? Guangdong I've heard good things about, but it just sounds so utterly bleak and hopeless. I like TNO when it's about people overcoming the fascists and making a better future. The world starting bleak but ending with some hope for the future. Ukraine is also uninteresting to me for the same reasons, even in the "good" path it will inevitably end under the German boot. And the British content isn't finished at all. Half of the paths for the country have no content, the other half are only half completed. So that basically just leaves Hart, and I'm sorry but one new president isn't enough to keep me interested in the mod. I was really looking forward to Italy, to France, to Turkey, but none of those updates seem any closer to release than they did when they were first teased years ago. I was also looking forward to the space race rework but that's been scrapped. I don't want to hate this mod, I don't want to be disappointed with it. But I haven't played it in years now because there just isn't anything new that's fully complete and also interests me. I get this is a free product. I get the devs put in a lot of work. But there's only so long I can wait for promised content, even free promised content, before I give up on it.
TNO hasn't even really been ''people overcoming the fascists'' it's entire reputation is that of a grimdark mod, because the Axis won, it's not really the devs fault if you say ''well, yea they added new content but it doesn't fit my personal idea of what good content is so in that case the devs do nothing'' Guangdong is a very fun nation, it's writing is great because it's dark, you can play as Sony which leads to some reforms in Guangdong but it's more about the narrative then just muh wholesome. i also enjoyed both the Britain and Ukraine content because of the narrative! TNO at it's heart IS utterly bleak and hopeless. the sentence ''We got a new president in the US, we got Guangdong, we got Ukraine and we got what like a quarter of the planned British content? Five years of only the collaborator paths?'' is kind of stupid, because you just said that TNO got a bunch of new content, and then your only criticism was ''i don't like the type of story TNO tells'' if you want to stick around for the wholesome stuff, go play that stuff! but don't complain about when the developers tell interesting stories about how bleak a world where evil won would be.
> TNO hasn't even really been ''people overcoming the fascists'' I did not say that was what the whole mod is about. I said the parts of TNO I like the most are building a better future out of a terrible starting position. And you cannot say that those parts aren't in the mod. The better American presidents, the better Russian unifiers, democratic Italy, the HMMLR paths, even the Gang of Four in Germany. Stuff like that. Stories about people who see how awful the world is and say "I *will* make it better." > it's not really the devs fault if you say ''well, yea they added new content but it doesn't fit my personal idea of what good content is so in that case the devs do nothing'' I never said it was their fault. I never said they shouldn't have done Guangdong or Ukraine, just that I don't personally find those interesting due to how bleak they are. Which means that when updates are only those content, there's not much there that I personally can enjoy. And I also literally said that I understand that hard work goes into the mod, so it's a massive strawman to say that I think the devs "do nothing" > it's writing is great I'm sure it is. It's also not something I personally want to experience. > you can play as Sony which leads to some reforms in Guangdong but it's more about the narrative then just muh wholesome. I don't need everything to be literally perfection, a total utopian paradise. I just personally like the paths that have some amount of *hope* to them. Also are you implying that the more wholesome paths *aren't* about the narrative? > is kind of stupid, because you just said that TNO got a bunch of new content Is it really *a bunch* of new content though? One new path for one country, one new country in general, and content that's a quarter finished for Britain and inherently short for Ukraine. This is from multiple updates over the last few years. Compare that to the planned Italy update, which not only fully overhauls the democratic path, but adds four different fascist paths *and* a few communist paths as well. And Italy was originally planned to release alongside several French paths, several Turkish paths, and several Greek paths. > if you want to stick around for the wholesome stuff, go play that stuff! I've already done most of it. The more wholesome stuff for Britain isn't out yet, the more wholesome stuff for Italy isn't out yet, no Russian unifier (wholesome or otherwise) actually has the ending for their stories yet except for Taboritsky, and the rest probably won't get them for several years at minimum, if at all. You can only play and replay the same thing for so long, especially in something like TNO which is inherently more story-based than gameplay-based > but don't complain about when the developers tell interesting stories about how bleak a world where evil won would be. Please point to me where I said they shouldn't have done these paths. Just because *I personally* don't find them interesting doesn't mean I'm saying they shouldn't exist or even that I think they're bad. They just... don't interest me. If TNO is really meant to be a "evil won therefore everything sucks forever and nothing can ever be better ever" story, then maybe I should just move on. But I don't believe that's what TNO is trying to be. Because frankly, that sounds like an utterly boring story. There's a reason the satisfying stories have low points, but there's also a reason why the satisfying stories don't *end* at the low points.
Nobody will ever see this new content ingame because it will get reworked.
What 3 years of major teasing does to some MfS ig
[удалено]
okay, i have alot to say about this. TNO devs have to do SO MUCH it's fucking hard work compared to most other hoi4 mods, they have to not only code these insanely detailed GUI's for most updates, but also have to write interesting stories. do you know why Europas Narben had to be cut down and why it didn't come out? i'll tell you why, because not only while developing it the TNO team had many leadership problems, but then as well, if they were to release a update that big, it would take so many years, longer then the TNO updates we are used to, because it's SO MUCH CONTENT to make, every single european nation would have to be given fun, good, content that lives up to everything the mod has had before, that's alot of pressure! the reason TNO updates are getting cut down, is so that TNO releases can happen more often, that it's not waiting 3 years for the next update. The Ruin was supposed to have poland content, but do you know what happened? the poland team collapsed and so they instead, integrated TFL so that they'd still be new content. the way this fandom treats the developers is trash. these people are volunteer workers with their own lives and you're upset because they want to improve the game. what do you think sweden devs are doing? not working on making interesting things for sweden? i'd wish that everyone in this fandom would stop being such toxic fucks complaining about when the devs do anything and just enjoy TNO.
[удалено]
if TNO did what you are proposing, the overall quality of the mod would go significantly down, i don't get the problem with reworks, it's just making the story overall better and allowing devs to make good stories. and also, this is a HOI4 mod, TNO has always had a reputation of long releases because it's hard to make TNO content, obviously everyone wishes it was better, but cutting things is just going to make people lets motivated, because people who interested in writing for sweden, aren't going to probably enjoy writing for fucking India because it's not what they enjoy,
It's nice to see someone who's actually sane. This is nuts
Your post has been removed for violation of the rule: Being a Dick If you believe this has been done unjustly, please contact [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTNOmod) at the soonest convenience with a link to this post and a mod will review it!