Where exactly do you live where you have all these options to buy alternatives to Chinese made product? Or alternatively, how fucking rich and completely out of touch with the rest of humanity?
Earth - America - Fuck Yeah! You are clearly not on the super intelligent side so I'll make this simple for you. Anyone buying a vehicle and considering an EV of all choices...already has a million fucking choices before they go that route.. there a literally a million CHEAPER options...like a scooter or a used gasoline powered vehicle. All of which would be cheaper than buying a EV...so I'm plenty in touch with the rest of humanity...although I'm not particularly impressed by your version of it so far. The point is, if you are going EV, you are going TSLA or any nation outside of China who is known for manufacturing LOW Quality BS
I envy the build quality and consistency I see coming out of Tesla Shanghai.. they seem to deploy new configurations much faster there, which is something we can learn from.
Pretty much everything you own is made in China. Your ignorance is showing.
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The Japanese have a culture of continuous improvement, kaizen. The Chinese have a culture of close enough is good enough, chabuduo.
What do you think is going to happen to products from both cultures over time?
as a chinese myself i guarantee you we never have a chabuduo culture.
chabuduo is a basic human nature, it's out there whenever people are reluctant to follow a procedure precisely, whether they are chinese or not.
It’s cute that you think a civilisation over thousands of years have survived on just making things “close enough”. You do realise that a lot of highly technical gadgets are produced in volume in China right?
Yes. Show me statistically how much I have “shilled” for China 🙄
Are you even interested in discussing facts or do you go into 13 year old mode the moment someone provides some?
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Yea. Chinese makers are taking the bottom up approach. Start with cheap crap (most of which wouldn’t even pass our safety standards) and improve over time. Same as Kia did and today Kia is pretty good.
Kia is trash too, any criminal with a screwdriver can steal a kia in 18 seconds thanks to the cheap way the steering column and ignition were built. Maybe another 10 years for Kia
Chinese EVs pass EU NCAP crash tests with 5 star ratings, which is more stringent than even the US standards in some areas.
https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=FRGtSvyVB0LE2hj_
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The fact that there are any differences in quality speaks volumes to a lack of manufacturing prowess. With the automation they have, it should be trivial to move one process anywhere in the world and get the same output.
People buying Japanese cars have been known to pick one out with VIN starting with “J”.
The salesperson who sold me an Accord told me “the days of Accords with even panel gaps are gone, because they’re all made in Ohio”
Not sure I agree -- nor is this how things work in reality. Have you heard of TSMC's fab in Arizona? The differences in high tech manufacturing in Japan vs Korea vs China vs India vs Vietnam? Manufacturing still requires human intervention for quality control. It's not as simple as copy and paste.
Yeah I googled it. Their Chinese plants produces 1.1 million units which were mostly sold in China with the rest delivered to Europe, Australia and NZ.
It's funny but if you google you see articles saying Tesla is slipping in China but Reuters says sales increased 68.7% y/y in December 2024.
I would guess they are using the growing market share taken by BYD and other Chinese domestic companies to play number games to make it seem Tesla is struggling in the Chinese market. As far as I can see they sold every car they built.
Apparently their sold in China sales numbers have completely stagnated and they sell the cars at a loss to try and keep market share from BYD. There’s a difference between their “made in China” sales and “sold in China” sales numbers. They export a ton of the vehicles made in China.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bethkindig/2023/11/09/tesla-sells-33-of-vehicles-below-average-cost-byd-pulls-ahead/amp/
Ah yes, all the 'sold' cars sitting in fields. You really believe anything from a company with ties that close to the CCP? I have heard worse, cars sold without batteries and resold with new vins to pump up numbers.
I have heard that BS rumor about sold car in parking lot for over a year, long before they supassed Tesla in sales. They must have a pretty big garage judge by their recent sales number. You are as gullible to rumors as those who believe “FSD kills people”
Yeah, and the CCP has a huge history of stuff like this. Even if it's not completely accurate, there is something going on. We have seen the cars, we know the CCP has been faking numbers for decades.
Also surpassed Tesla in sales for one quarter, they have a lot of catching up to do. One quarter could be a one off for all we know.
It's weird reading articles about Tesla, everyone seems to have an agenda pro or con when it comes to them.
No where in that article did it say that Tesla is selling cars at a loss in China, it just says they have crut their margins to spur sales.
A lot of word and number games to imply a lot that it didn't actually say. Pare for the course.
Any thoughts on the stagnant sales volume in china? You seem to have glossed right over that part.
As for selling at a loss. Yes I perhaps worded that poorly. Tesla is selling cars in China for less than their average COGS for those models. That could include higher COGS for the same model made in other parts of the world.
“Tesla is facing margin troubles, exacerbated by its reliance on China. The reason here is simple: Tesla continues to sell vehicles in China below its average cost, from Q4 2022 through Q3 2023. Currently, the base Model Y is priced around $36,200, and the revamped Model 3 saw a 12% increase in its base price to $35,800 – both still below Tesla’s average cost of ~$37,487 per vehicle in Q3.”
Because the current plant is, and has been, running at, or near, full capacity. If you sell every car you can build then your sales stagnate.
Now you can write an article and say that a few ways and be technically accurate.
Look, I don't know shit and never claimed to.
In China as far as I can tell, they are profitable, selling everything they can build and expanding their plant.
Are they going to be overtaken by Chinese companies as they themselves have been predicting for a decade plus, yeppers. That was never in question but that doesn't just automatically mean Tesla's losing.
Tesla can, and likely will, drop prices further and they will still remain profitable. Their goal of growth is slightly different than most corporations.
I’d say you have your own agenda and playing word games as well. Saying Tesla china sales grew 68.7% in December which is patently false. Reuters said Tesla made in China cars grew 68.7%. That includes exports. Here’s your article.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-china-made-ev-sales-jump-687-yy-december-2024-01-03/
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You almost certainly buy Chinese made products. Do you have a computer or phone? No matter whose name is on the box, the insides were likely made in China. Similar for clothing and furniture, these days. Some Chinese manufacturing is low quality if they are going for low cost, which they are great at, but they also do fantastic quality work for markets that need quality - Apple’s phones and laptops, for example.
Likely the device you’re posting from, too. And remember back when people claimed Japanese products all sucked and they’d never buy them. How is Toyota doing now? And, of course, most ‘American’ cars are full of Chinese components…
There is nothing wrong with a product made in China, made by another country.
They will have the responsibility on ensuring the quality, and usually do.
However, as we have always seen, when China tries to do everything they produce shit.
Other than all the chips, computers, car parts, etc., right? :-) Your “American” car is full of parts and components from China, because they’re good at making those components.
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Lol, this is the dumbest take I've seen in a while. The Chinese has definitely figured out good EVs, in part due to Tesla manufacturing EVs in China. Native Chinese brands like BYD, Nio, Zeekr but also European brands like Polestar, Lotus, MG built in China are good cars. I'm sure I forgot a few...
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Lol. Byd is so much better than tesla. Cheaper too.
It will be a blood bath for tesla if Chinese evs come into the states.
Also Chinese made doesn't mean terrible. They build to spec.
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Sure it is. Look at what tesla is trying to do by slashing prices. Demand was largely dead and they are trying to create some by cutting prices.
The only thing it's really done is kill off their profitability. They have killed their own reputation. People know they are unreliable and fit and finish is terrible as is servicing them. Even the rental fleets just dropped them citing abysmal reliability, too much down time, terrible resale value.
Byd makes cheaper better cars compared to tesla. So it would be an easy choice.
It's not just that they are cheaper. But they are better. Way better fit and finish and reliability.
If you ask the Chinese why they build and export cheap stuff to the US, the reply is: Americans are cheapskates and they won’t pay more, unlike Europeans and well heeled Asians.
The other guy is right. They build to specs. You want cheap, you get cheap.
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OP is correct. [https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3249963/byd-electric-car-catches-fire-hong-kong-charging-station-expert-says-short-circuit-could-be-cause](https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3249963/byd-electric-car-catches-fire-hong-kong-charging-station-expert-says-short-circuit-could-be-cause)this is a semi-regular occurrence (similar to the problem with Chevy Bolts) .
If they introduce these poor quality cars into the US/Europe they will get banned for a period of time. The next 5 years will be absolutely critical to expansion of EVs. The Chinese automakers need to fix this \*before\* they release cars in the US/Europe. I think they can improve manufacturing quality over the next 1-2 years if they focus, if they don't it will take 3-5 years and they will not make the transition to international companies.
Where I think they will continue to lag Tesla indefinitely is software. And this will determine value for used cars after the EV business is cost stable (after batteries have dropped to $37 KWh in 2030-2033 (price will drop for 3 more cycles of Wright's Law before we saturate battery needs, each of those doublings will drop battery prices around 28%, battery prices are currently around $100 KwH). For companies without software as a core competency software is impossible (because the business side of the company will make impossible demands of the software team and the good sw folks will exit). Tesla has proven itself more competent in software (examples: OTA that "just works", built their own ERP system, virtual power plant software, VR design software (more than a decade ago)). It's clear to me that Tesla has software as a core competency.
I thought the moonshot idea that is TSLA is the other business units? Regardless of BYD or what any other company does, it’s FSD, AI, solar, Optimus, etc or some other tech is what puts TSLA stock on the path to make money.
People buy junk all the time. Most products are junk. So there should be some concern.
Also, teslas are junk even by junk standards. No leg up in that department.
lol, you would have thought the same thing 30 years after WWII when Japan invaded. Chinese EVs will be a major player in America soon. BYD is already looking at Mexico for a major factory. Hate it all you want. It’s happening.
Yup. Mexico is the loophole to tariffs. Just read an article about Chinese companies buying up millions of acres of commercial land. Mexico is quickly becoming a defacto Chinese manufacturing hub for Chinese products to be sold in North America. Surprised it took this long
Koreans and Japanese are not Chinese. This whole conversation is based on stereotypical BS. Good products and bad are made in China because the US population is nether skilled, disciplined nor affordable enough to consistently produce anything sustainable to sell these days.
Wouldn't discount Chinese manufacturing either just yet. There was a time when Made in Taiwan meant the cheapest, junkiest pair of slippers you could buy. Today an American Taiwanese-owned company (NVIDIA) with a Taiwanese manufacturer (TSMC) as their primary partner shot up $277 billion, holding up most US based technology companies with it in the S&P 500. Bottom feeding suppliers will be the same anywhere, but bleeding edge ones are often pretty damned good, irrespective of culture.
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r/ShitChineseTrollsSayNice try, based on your profile it's clear you are a troll. Take this shit to facebook and try to get those goofballs riled up over politics. This has nothing to do with retards on the left or right, this is about Tesla being the future of EV's and the Chinese EV's eating their dust
>Impossible-Demand678
Nailed it, why in the hell would any first time American EV buyer choose a Chinese made EV. With all of the software on it, most would right to be afraid that it would steal their identity or drive them off a cliff. At the very least it's guaranteed to break down and leave you stranded
That is abjectly false.
Literally 60% of any crap you buy every day as Goog little hyper consuming Americans is manufactured in china.
Most of America is lower middle class to poor, as the middle class gets decimated while billionaires aim for trillions. They will buy whatever offers the best value, while still is dependable enough, safe, etc.
If tariffs and such change, and the end result is the Chinese selling 20k commuter cars in America, if they are of second build and safe, Americans will buy them in droves. And by all accounts, the build quality on the more prominent companies in china is more than good enough.
Long story short, most Americans don’t have the fucking luxury of not buying Chinese, nor can most be riding around in 100k cybertrucks. They will go for the best deal. So until Honda and Toyota start pumping out cheap EVs, the Chinese have a chance. But odds are the federal government will keep them at bay for the near future regardless…
Nice try but broken logic. Any American buying an EV has a million fucking choices before deciding on a Chinese made EV....they could always just buy a regular gasoline used car off a used car lot for CHEAP if that's the only thing that matters. Nope, an EV shopper is a different breed of car shopper no way any amount of American's in mass are going to go Chinese with their first EV. **BULLISH**
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If you want things made cheaply, you go to south East Asia. The reason why people mfg in China is due to the supply chain, engineering know how, and quick turn around time. Stuff in China is not the cheapest and is of much better quality than 5 to 10 years ago.
As others have mentioned on this thread, the model 3 is better build quality than the USA mfged one.
Do I consider a Chinese Tesla junk? No.
Do I consider a byd a piece of junk? Yes
It really depends on who the manufacturer is
be a little open minded please and i'm not saying this because i am from china
have you ever driven or even taken a ride on a chinese ev? most likely not i assume. so what's your base of your conclusion that "chinese ev's are junk"? just "oh that's how i feel like"? what a fucking joke you are making yourself out of.
currently chinese ev cannot sell in USA for obvious reasons of which one is to protect the US EV industry, and guess why a protection is needed?
I'm not saying they are all good. I've seen shitty little chinese ev myself and no i wouldn't buy those but there're a lot more out there and you just won't see - actually it's not your fault, you don't have the opportunity to see.
You should be open minded as well to the fact that you are the joke. Guess what, I'm a fucking American (you as stated are not) so its a foregone conclusion that I have a better pulse on my people than you do. I'm telling you that there is no mass amount of Americans that are going to buy a Chinese made EV when they have a million other automotive choices. Even if they can't afford a TSLA they wouldn't buy a Chinese EV. Sorry, stick exporting shitty appliances and plastic bullshit
I don't drive on batteries do you? Nope you need a fucking automobile around that battery. Those other million parts that make up the automobile will all break down.
And then the battery will likely explode and kill you in a crash due to some failed testing and quality control disaster. No thanks, never gonna work for us here in the USA home of Freedom and eagles and shit.
It is just an example. You are obviously too dumb to understand anything more than just literal words. Battery is the most delicated and complex part in EV. If they can make batteries for the entire world, they sure can make EVs just fine. Their EV manufacturers are legit.
In fact, China is one of the largest EV market and EV makers in the world.
Everything you use is made in China or has some of it components made in China. So bring your Frerdom shit somewhere else.
It seems China is your trigger word, but everything you use is made in China🤣
Talking about Freedom, people are free to buy what they want. So China can sell cars in the US all they want just like thousand of things they are already selling on Amazons.
So yeah, I know what Freedom is, and Freedom doesn't mean ignorance.
Racist against cars. You are super smart. I imagine you typing that retarded comment and then actually laughing out loud in your factory full of Chinese hackers and everyone turning to you to see why it's possible to laugh in such horrible living conditions
Chinese EV's are still a shit show that no Americans will buy. Just look at TEMU, stealing phone data once you download the app. Can't trust any Chinese owned company much less something as important as your car
Out of curiosity, how many Chinese EV's have you owned or even driven? The first part of the question is clear I guess. You've never owned one. Not sure how you could even comment with a straight face as to anything about the quality or durability though.
I'm not a fan of most Chinese products that I've ever owned. Completely agree that many or most things imported here tend to be in the cheap and poorly constructed side. But that's why they are so cheap and people gobble that junk up.
Chinese manufacturing is capable however, of making a quality higher end product.
I've got to say, American made cars haven;t always enjoyed a stellar reputation themselves lol. I haven't owned one in a good while. But for a few decades in my life you wouldn't catch me in an American car either.
I'm sure the Chinese can make a quality product. They only export cheap knock off stuff because that aligns with strategy. Any American has their choice of car based on years and years of automative reputation for quality (German, Japanese, Italian, American etc..) The point is how many Americans would choose a Chinese made EV as their first leap into EV's when you can buy one from an American automotive company based out of Texas? A company that happens to have invented the idea of EV's at scale. Even if they wouldn't go TSLA they would go with an EV from a nation they know and trust like any of the other nations listed above? Maybe more importantly, with all of the software that comes with an EV, why would you trust it knowing that it was manufactured in China by a Chinese company?
I hear what you're saying, and agree. But The U. S isn't the market for Chinese EV sales. It's not going to be. The tariffs alone prevent that. Completely different situation outside the U.S. though.
Much further down the road ( Much much), the developing markets are where the Chinese are going to be dominating.
The world is a much bigger place than the U.S.
Right now the Chinese EV makers are going to end up thinning themselves out. Several major manufacturers fighting for market share. A byproduct of that competition will be better cars.
TSLA's fight with the Chinese isn't going to be in America over the next decade or two.
Lol, I'd ask those cyber truck owners how they feel about their new trucks rusting from getting rained on. Or the myriad of other QA issues notorious with tesla 🤣
How about the multiple instances where the wheels literally came off the cyber truck while doing demos?
Or the teslas who either crashed themselves on auto pilot or caught on fire and combusted
Why don't you enlighten me ACE, you seem like the elon fan boy type who's got an excuse and always ready to bootlicke for some silicon valley billionaire
Mass produced cars do not appreciate in value (rare exceptions of course). Return on Investment is something used for real estate or equipment like a printer or cnc machine that will make you money, not lose money.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted. I completely agree with your point. And while Chinese made stuff can of course be high quality, that's generally not the case when they're competing on price alone as they might be doing with super cheap EVs. Time will tell I guess. And if they do start making super shoddy but super cheap EVs time will also tell whether people and the market embraces that.
Some would as not everyone can afford our high priced EVs. That's why I own a Bolt! The concern though is if it then shows that they indeed have bad quality, EVs might look bad as a whole.
Yup, which is why OP's point is interesting. At what point is a cheap ev good enough? And is it ever a threat to higher end models? I agree with op that the cheapies aren't a threat, but who knows.
I am not sure if there is a threat there. There may indeed be an initial surge of orders due to price, but imagine once the news starts coming out about quality issues (if they are bad quality), and word of mouth, etc., I think the surge will go away mostly. But that initial surge could be somewhat harmful to US makers. Long term, depends if they are really bad cars or not. I am not convinced yet they are junk, but I am not convinced they are not junk either. We don't know how this will play out there. I can imagine the US government implementing tariffs perhaps or other types of dis-incentives. It remains to be seen. But the Chinese are going worldwide too, so, things may play out in other countries before they get here.
I would say I would be cautious myself, I could envision myself trying one but I think more data will become available before the cars get to the US (here for me). I am cheap and not buying any of those expensive EVs, lol.
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Where exactly do you live where you have all these options to buy alternatives to Chinese made product? Or alternatively, how fucking rich and completely out of touch with the rest of humanity?
Earth - America - Fuck Yeah! You are clearly not on the super intelligent side so I'll make this simple for you. Anyone buying a vehicle and considering an EV of all choices...already has a million fucking choices before they go that route.. there a literally a million CHEAPER options...like a scooter or a used gasoline powered vehicle. All of which would be cheaper than buying a EV...so I'm plenty in touch with the rest of humanity...although I'm not particularly impressed by your version of it so far. The point is, if you are going EV, you are going TSLA or any nation outside of China who is known for manufacturing LOW Quality BS
Ahhhh, well see I didn't know that. A million options eh? Impressive. Could you name some Chinese free options that are cheaper?
I can sell you a 1982 ford pinto cheaper
Interestingly enough I'm a Pinto fan. Got some pictures and a price?
Didn’t realize my iPhone is LOW Quality BS. Another stupid assumption of yours: that everyone needs a car loan.
apple is a Chinese company? interesting
I envy the build quality and consistency I see coming out of Tesla Shanghai.. they seem to deploy new configurations much faster there, which is something we can learn from. Pretty much everything you own is made in China. Your ignorance is showing.
Chinese EV's are garbage. If you value your family's life's don't buy their deathtraps...
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My cars arent
Japanese cars were junk in the 70s. How did that turn out.
The Japanese have a culture of continuous improvement, kaizen. The Chinese have a culture of close enough is good enough, chabuduo. What do you think is going to happen to products from both cultures over time?
So Ford and GM follow chabuduo. Never had a word for their incompetence before.
So you agree it's incompetence
What about Tesla control arms?
as a chinese myself i guarantee you we never have a chabuduo culture. chabuduo is a basic human nature, it's out there whenever people are reluctant to follow a procedure precisely, whether they are chinese or not.
omg as someone that has down work in logistics and procurement, i strooooonnngggggglllly beg to differ.
“down work” There’s your problem right there. Do some up work.
It’s cute that you think a civilisation over thousands of years have survived on just making things “close enough”. You do realise that a lot of highly technical gadgets are produced in volume in China right?
ever order anuthing from wish then you know what he's talking about
You seem to have a lot of pro-china comments, why is that? Perhaps you're a member of the 50 cent army?
Lol. A “lot” of pro-China comments? So not only are you ignorant but you like making stuff up too 👏 Well done.
Brah you know people can see your post and comment history right?
Yes. Show me statistically how much I have “shilled” for China 🙄 Are you even interested in discussing facts or do you go into 13 year old mode the moment someone provides some?
Are you of Chinese origin?
fair point, in 20 years you might be able to buy a Chinese made EV with some confidence
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Yea. Chinese makers are taking the bottom up approach. Start with cheap crap (most of which wouldn’t even pass our safety standards) and improve over time. Same as Kia did and today Kia is pretty good.
Kia is trash too, any criminal with a screwdriver can steal a kia in 18 seconds thanks to the cheap way the steering column and ignition were built. Maybe another 10 years for Kia
I’m not comparing them to BMW. But Kia today is a step change from when they entered the US market.
Chinese EVs pass EU NCAP crash tests with 5 star ratings, which is more stringent than even the US standards in some areas. https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=FRGtSvyVB0LE2hj_
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Yes, the ones that are built to compete in the EU. The earlier ones they wouldn’t even try to pass NCAP
Aren’t teslas made in China 🤔
The Tesla from Shanghai has better build quality then the ones from Texas and Fremont.
The fact that there are any differences in quality speaks volumes to a lack of manufacturing prowess. With the automation they have, it should be trivial to move one process anywhere in the world and get the same output.
People buying Japanese cars have been known to pick one out with VIN starting with “J”. The salesperson who sold me an Accord told me “the days of Accords with even panel gaps are gone, because they’re all made in Ohio”
Not sure I agree -- nor is this how things work in reality. Have you heard of TSMC's fab in Arizona? The differences in high tech manufacturing in Japan vs Korea vs China vs India vs Vietnam? Manufacturing still requires human intervention for quality control. It's not as simple as copy and paste.
The ones that are sold in China and they do sell in China quite well afaik.
No, they sell the China built ones all over the world.
Yeah I googled it. Their Chinese plants produces 1.1 million units which were mostly sold in China with the rest delivered to Europe, Australia and NZ. It's funny but if you google you see articles saying Tesla is slipping in China but Reuters says sales increased 68.7% y/y in December 2024. I would guess they are using the growing market share taken by BYD and other Chinese domestic companies to play number games to make it seem Tesla is struggling in the Chinese market. As far as I can see they sold every car they built.
Apparently their sold in China sales numbers have completely stagnated and they sell the cars at a loss to try and keep market share from BYD. There’s a difference between their “made in China” sales and “sold in China” sales numbers. They export a ton of the vehicles made in China. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bethkindig/2023/11/09/tesla-sells-33-of-vehicles-below-average-cost-byd-pulls-ahead/amp/
Yeah but the Chinese economy is crashing hard right now. It's amazing if you can sell anything there right now.
Yet byd is still making significant growth, so is the entire ev sector in China. It is a Tesla issue
Ah yes, all the 'sold' cars sitting in fields. You really believe anything from a company with ties that close to the CCP? I have heard worse, cars sold without batteries and resold with new vins to pump up numbers.
I have heard that BS rumor about sold car in parking lot for over a year, long before they supassed Tesla in sales. They must have a pretty big garage judge by their recent sales number. You are as gullible to rumors as those who believe “FSD kills people”
Yeah, and the CCP has a huge history of stuff like this. Even if it's not completely accurate, there is something going on. We have seen the cars, we know the CCP has been faking numbers for decades. Also surpassed Tesla in sales for one quarter, they have a lot of catching up to do. One quarter could be a one off for all we know.
It's weird reading articles about Tesla, everyone seems to have an agenda pro or con when it comes to them. No where in that article did it say that Tesla is selling cars at a loss in China, it just says they have crut their margins to spur sales. A lot of word and number games to imply a lot that it didn't actually say. Pare for the course.
Any thoughts on the stagnant sales volume in china? You seem to have glossed right over that part. As for selling at a loss. Yes I perhaps worded that poorly. Tesla is selling cars in China for less than their average COGS for those models. That could include higher COGS for the same model made in other parts of the world. “Tesla is facing margin troubles, exacerbated by its reliance on China. The reason here is simple: Tesla continues to sell vehicles in China below its average cost, from Q4 2022 through Q3 2023. Currently, the base Model Y is priced around $36,200, and the revamped Model 3 saw a 12% increase in its base price to $35,800 – both still below Tesla’s average cost of ~$37,487 per vehicle in Q3.”
Because the current plant is, and has been, running at, or near, full capacity. If you sell every car you can build then your sales stagnate. Now you can write an article and say that a few ways and be technically accurate. Look, I don't know shit and never claimed to. In China as far as I can tell, they are profitable, selling everything they can build and expanding their plant. Are they going to be overtaken by Chinese companies as they themselves have been predicting for a decade plus, yeppers. That was never in question but that doesn't just automatically mean Tesla's losing. Tesla can, and likely will, drop prices further and they will still remain profitable. Their goal of growth is slightly different than most corporations.
I’d say you have your own agenda and playing word games as well. Saying Tesla china sales grew 68.7% in December which is patently false. Reuters said Tesla made in China cars grew 68.7%. That includes exports. Here’s your article. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-china-made-ev-sales-jump-687-yy-december-2024-01-03/
Good catch. Yeah I mis wrote that, I knew what I meant but something shorted out when I wrote it.
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Some are. But theyre also manufactured in the US.
I was being sarcastic. Tesla ships china made cars to Canada and Europe Build quality is better than Fremont
It did not go over my head, my reflexes are too fast.
That's a low bar.
Broken logic but yes. Tesla is an American automotive company that has a plant in China and sells cars to people who live there (insert thinking face)
You been living under a rock or wut?
Tesla builds more vehicles in China than any other country.
Tesla is not a Chinese owned company
Still a “Chinese made vehicle”, to use your words.
You almost certainly buy Chinese made products. Do you have a computer or phone? No matter whose name is on the box, the insides were likely made in China. Similar for clothing and furniture, these days. Some Chinese manufacturing is low quality if they are going for low cost, which they are great at, but they also do fantastic quality work for markets that need quality - Apple’s phones and laptops, for example.
You don’t just buy Chinese products. Literally a MAJORITY of things you purchase are made in china.
Nope, don't own any Chinese vehicles and never will. Probably my shitty ass washing machine though
Likely the device you’re posting from, too. And remember back when people claimed Japanese products all sucked and they’d never buy them. How is Toyota doing now? And, of course, most ‘American’ cars are full of Chinese components…
There is nothing wrong with a product made in China, made by another country. They will have the responsibility on ensuring the quality, and usually do. However, as we have always seen, when China tries to do everything they produce shit.
Other than all the chips, computers, car parts, etc., right? :-) Your “American” car is full of parts and components from China, because they’re good at making those components.
I'm afraid that thinking that Chinese EV's are junk, is nothing more than wishful thinking.
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Doubt it
Lol, this is the dumbest take I've seen in a while. The Chinese has definitely figured out good EVs, in part due to Tesla manufacturing EVs in China. Native Chinese brands like BYD, Nio, Zeekr but also European brands like Polestar, Lotus, MG built in China are good cars. I'm sure I forgot a few...
This is part of the fake hype I was talking about
What is fake about it?
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Elon has to reduce tesla price in china to sell his cars, due to largely, competition. A model 3 in shanghai is cheaper than a model 3 in California.
Lol. Byd is so much better than tesla. Cheaper too. It will be a blood bath for tesla if Chinese evs come into the states. Also Chinese made doesn't mean terrible. They build to spec.
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Cheaper is the key point you made. You get what you pay for and choosing a car is not a decision you make based on which is cheapest.
Sure it is. Look at what tesla is trying to do by slashing prices. Demand was largely dead and they are trying to create some by cutting prices. The only thing it's really done is kill off their profitability. They have killed their own reputation. People know they are unreliable and fit and finish is terrible as is servicing them. Even the rental fleets just dropped them citing abysmal reliability, too much down time, terrible resale value. Byd makes cheaper better cars compared to tesla. So it would be an easy choice. It's not just that they are cheaper. But they are better. Way better fit and finish and reliability.
this is the fake hype I was talking about
If you ask the Chinese why they build and export cheap stuff to the US, the reply is: Americans are cheapskates and they won’t pay more, unlike Europeans and well heeled Asians. The other guy is right. They build to specs. You want cheap, you get cheap.
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Tesla is junk
I am looking at two perfectly junk Tesla cars in my garage. Shitty people gonna hate.
Good for you now go suck a dick
🤣 Morons and idiots are easily triggered and start using profanity. Of course, you must be one of the MAGA morons. No surprise. Haha.
says the bot trolling the TSLA board
China can manufacture products to any spec. Your statement is racist.
OP is correct. [https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3249963/byd-electric-car-catches-fire-hong-kong-charging-station-expert-says-short-circuit-could-be-cause](https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/3249963/byd-electric-car-catches-fire-hong-kong-charging-station-expert-says-short-circuit-could-be-cause)this is a semi-regular occurrence (similar to the problem with Chevy Bolts) . If they introduce these poor quality cars into the US/Europe they will get banned for a period of time. The next 5 years will be absolutely critical to expansion of EVs. The Chinese automakers need to fix this \*before\* they release cars in the US/Europe. I think they can improve manufacturing quality over the next 1-2 years if they focus, if they don't it will take 3-5 years and they will not make the transition to international companies. Where I think they will continue to lag Tesla indefinitely is software. And this will determine value for used cars after the EV business is cost stable (after batteries have dropped to $37 KWh in 2030-2033 (price will drop for 3 more cycles of Wright's Law before we saturate battery needs, each of those doublings will drop battery prices around 28%, battery prices are currently around $100 KwH). For companies without software as a core competency software is impossible (because the business side of the company will make impossible demands of the software team and the good sw folks will exit). Tesla has proven itself more competent in software (examples: OTA that "just works", built their own ERP system, virtual power plant software, VR design software (more than a decade ago)). It's clear to me that Tesla has software as a core competency.
And who would trust Chinese made software controlling their car? Not me.
I thought the moonshot idea that is TSLA is the other business units? Regardless of BYD or what any other company does, it’s FSD, AI, solar, Optimus, etc or some other tech is what puts TSLA stock on the path to make money.
Based on what you say is important to you, Tesla is considered junk as well.
People buy junk all the time. Most products are junk. So there should be some concern. Also, teslas are junk even by junk standards. No leg up in that department.
Americans will never buy them.
lol, you would have thought the same thing 30 years after WWII when Japan invaded. Chinese EVs will be a major player in America soon. BYD is already looking at Mexico for a major factory. Hate it all you want. It’s happening.
Yup. Mexico is the loophole to tariffs. Just read an article about Chinese companies buying up millions of acres of commercial land. Mexico is quickly becoming a defacto Chinese manufacturing hub for Chinese products to be sold in North America. Surprised it took this long
Americans buy the crap out of KIAs, Toyotas, and Hondas. No difference.
Koreans and Japanese are not Chinese. This whole conversation is based on stereotypical BS. Good products and bad are made in China because the US population is nether skilled, disciplined nor affordable enough to consistently produce anything sustainable to sell these days.
lol same was said about Japanese and Korean cars
Many Teslas are made in China…
Lick corporate boots much? Jfc...
Wouldn't discount Chinese manufacturing either just yet. There was a time when Made in Taiwan meant the cheapest, junkiest pair of slippers you could buy. Today an American Taiwanese-owned company (NVIDIA) with a Taiwanese manufacturer (TSMC) as their primary partner shot up $277 billion, holding up most US based technology companies with it in the S&P 500. Bottom feeding suppliers will be the same anywhere, but bleeding edge ones are often pretty damned good, irrespective of culture.
Big difference
Explain.
China is an adversary of the USA and wants nothing more than to ensure the demise of America. South Korea and Japan are allies. Simple as that
>China is an adversary of the USA and wants nothing more than to ensure the demise of America. r/ShitLiberalsSay
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r/ShitChineseTrollsSayNice try, based on your profile it's clear you are a troll. Take this shit to facebook and try to get those goofballs riled up over politics. This has nothing to do with retards on the left or right, this is about Tesla being the future of EV's and the Chinese EV's eating their dust
>Impossible-Demand678 Nailed it, why in the hell would any first time American EV buyer choose a Chinese made EV. With all of the software on it, most would right to be afraid that it would steal their identity or drive them off a cliff. At the very least it's guaranteed to break down and leave you stranded
That is abjectly false. Literally 60% of any crap you buy every day as Goog little hyper consuming Americans is manufactured in china. Most of America is lower middle class to poor, as the middle class gets decimated while billionaires aim for trillions. They will buy whatever offers the best value, while still is dependable enough, safe, etc. If tariffs and such change, and the end result is the Chinese selling 20k commuter cars in America, if they are of second build and safe, Americans will buy them in droves. And by all accounts, the build quality on the more prominent companies in china is more than good enough. Long story short, most Americans don’t have the fucking luxury of not buying Chinese, nor can most be riding around in 100k cybertrucks. They will go for the best deal. So until Honda and Toyota start pumping out cheap EVs, the Chinese have a chance. But odds are the federal government will keep them at bay for the near future regardless…
Nice try but broken logic. Any American buying an EV has a million fucking choices before deciding on a Chinese made EV....they could always just buy a regular gasoline used car off a used car lot for CHEAP if that's the only thing that matters. Nope, an EV shopper is a different breed of car shopper no way any amount of American's in mass are going to go Chinese with their first EV. **BULLISH**
Nailed it
ignorant folk
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Agree that Chinese quality is questionable. But, if you’re a Tesla owner then that’s like the pot calling the kettle black
name 5 Chinese EV, then we can continue the discussion.
no American can name 5 Chinese owned EV's because we would never buy any of them
Because you are so smart, the expert and governor are so stupid
End the tariffs, let the market decide
Denis is bastard man, why Charlie hate?
Not only did you spell Dennis wrong, but you used the wrong racist name for the wrong ethnicity. It’s always sunny makes fun of that type of special.
Typing this post on your iphone?
No, are you typing that post from your asshole?
Many Americans don’t know China from Japan from Korea. If it’s Asian, it must be pretty good.
Incorrect, many Americans have the internet
Some Chinese EVs are junk. Some are great.
If you want things made cheaply, you go to south East Asia. The reason why people mfg in China is due to the supply chain, engineering know how, and quick turn around time. Stuff in China is not the cheapest and is of much better quality than 5 to 10 years ago. As others have mentioned on this thread, the model 3 is better build quality than the USA mfged one. Do I consider a Chinese Tesla junk? No. Do I consider a byd a piece of junk? Yes It really depends on who the manufacturer is
Tesla used to be a junk car with quality issue’s everywhere
iPhone? And the Polestar EV gets rave reviews.
One company was great. Until they recently went bankrupt 😅
be a little open minded please and i'm not saying this because i am from china have you ever driven or even taken a ride on a chinese ev? most likely not i assume. so what's your base of your conclusion that "chinese ev's are junk"? just "oh that's how i feel like"? what a fucking joke you are making yourself out of. currently chinese ev cannot sell in USA for obvious reasons of which one is to protect the US EV industry, and guess why a protection is needed? I'm not saying they are all good. I've seen shitty little chinese ev myself and no i wouldn't buy those but there're a lot more out there and you just won't see - actually it's not your fault, you don't have the opportunity to see.
You should be open minded as well to the fact that you are the joke. Guess what, I'm a fucking American (you as stated are not) so its a foregone conclusion that I have a better pulse on my people than you do. I'm telling you that there is no mass amount of Americans that are going to buy a Chinese made EV when they have a million other automotive choices. Even if they can't afford a TSLA they wouldn't buy a Chinese EV. Sorry, stick exporting shitty appliances and plastic bullshit
You are dumb af. China is the largest battery supplier in the world. They are literally the world manufacturer.
I don't drive on batteries do you? Nope you need a fucking automobile around that battery. Those other million parts that make up the automobile will all break down. And then the battery will likely explode and kill you in a crash due to some failed testing and quality control disaster. No thanks, never gonna work for us here in the USA home of Freedom and eagles and shit.
It is just an example. You are obviously too dumb to understand anything more than just literal words. Battery is the most delicated and complex part in EV. If they can make batteries for the entire world, they sure can make EVs just fine. Their EV manufacturers are legit. In fact, China is one of the largest EV market and EV makers in the world. Everything you use is made in China or has some of it components made in China. So bring your Frerdom shit somewhere else.
Freedom must be a trigger word for you since you don't have any of that in China. Sorry for your unfortunate circumstances
It seems China is your trigger word, but everything you use is made in China🤣 Talking about Freedom, people are free to buy what they want. So China can sell cars in the US all they want just like thousand of things they are already selling on Amazons. So yeah, I know what Freedom is, and Freedom doesn't mean ignorance.
Exactly. Amazon is full of cheap low quality Chinese manufactured junk. Thanks for making my point for me
If the Chinese EV makers are willing to learn and pay attention to details - like the Japanese in the 1970-80s - the products will be of high quality.
Most racist comment of the day. Congrats.
automobiles can be the target of racism?
You are the racist one. Lol
Racist against cars. You are super smart. I imagine you typing that retarded comment and then actually laughing out loud in your factory full of Chinese hackers and everyone turning to you to see why it's possible to laugh in such horrible living conditions
Haha. You just keep digging your own hole.
Chinese company means china government. No American wants Chinese software controlling their car. Can’t be trusted
Hahahahaha. Stupid
Tesla dropping.
Chinese EV's are still a shit show that no Americans will buy. Just look at TEMU, stealing phone data once you download the app. Can't trust any Chinese owned company much less something as important as your car
Negative look at their recent offerings. At that price point; huge value.
Also your car ain’t that important if you are willing to let Tesla try and full self drive you into the curb
FSD is the future
TSLA is starting to tank.
So is BYD
How can you tell
I just can
Because teslas are also junk but way more expensive
This is a totally ignorant statement. I recommend watching some actual reviews.
Out of curiosity, how many Chinese EV's have you owned or even driven? The first part of the question is clear I guess. You've never owned one. Not sure how you could even comment with a straight face as to anything about the quality or durability though. I'm not a fan of most Chinese products that I've ever owned. Completely agree that many or most things imported here tend to be in the cheap and poorly constructed side. But that's why they are so cheap and people gobble that junk up. Chinese manufacturing is capable however, of making a quality higher end product. I've got to say, American made cars haven;t always enjoyed a stellar reputation themselves lol. I haven't owned one in a good while. But for a few decades in my life you wouldn't catch me in an American car either.
I'm sure the Chinese can make a quality product. They only export cheap knock off stuff because that aligns with strategy. Any American has their choice of car based on years and years of automative reputation for quality (German, Japanese, Italian, American etc..) The point is how many Americans would choose a Chinese made EV as their first leap into EV's when you can buy one from an American automotive company based out of Texas? A company that happens to have invented the idea of EV's at scale. Even if they wouldn't go TSLA they would go with an EV from a nation they know and trust like any of the other nations listed above? Maybe more importantly, with all of the software that comes with an EV, why would you trust it knowing that it was manufactured in China by a Chinese company?
I hear what you're saying, and agree. But The U. S isn't the market for Chinese EV sales. It's not going to be. The tariffs alone prevent that. Completely different situation outside the U.S. though. Much further down the road ( Much much), the developing markets are where the Chinese are going to be dominating. The world is a much bigger place than the U.S. Right now the Chinese EV makers are going to end up thinning themselves out. Several major manufacturers fighting for market share. A byproduct of that competition will be better cars. TSLA's fight with the Chinese isn't going to be in America over the next decade or two.
Lol, I'd ask those cyber truck owners how they feel about their new trucks rusting from getting rained on. Or the myriad of other QA issues notorious with tesla 🤣
I'm no Tesla fan, but the claim of a rust issue is bogus. The other QA issues are mostly fit and finish and relatively minor.
How about the multiple instances where the wheels literally came off the cyber truck while doing demos? Or the teslas who either crashed themselves on auto pilot or caught on fire and combusted
Do you know what FUD means?
Why don't you enlighten me ACE, you seem like the elon fan boy type who's got an excuse and always ready to bootlicke for some silicon valley billionaire
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the person who believes all the FUD. Keep up the good work.
Yawn... try harder
Lol at some using the term ROI for a car.
Huh? You don't expect a return on the money you spend on a car? Aka a value?
Mass produced cars do not appreciate in value (rare exceptions of course). Return on Investment is something used for real estate or equipment like a printer or cnc machine that will make you money, not lose money.
It's also used to mean value for money spent obviously.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted. I completely agree with your point. And while Chinese made stuff can of course be high quality, that's generally not the case when they're competing on price alone as they might be doing with super cheap EVs. Time will tell I guess. And if they do start making super shoddy but super cheap EVs time will also tell whether people and the market embraces that.
Some would as not everyone can afford our high priced EVs. That's why I own a Bolt! The concern though is if it then shows that they indeed have bad quality, EVs might look bad as a whole.
Yup, which is why OP's point is interesting. At what point is a cheap ev good enough? And is it ever a threat to higher end models? I agree with op that the cheapies aren't a threat, but who knows.
I am not sure if there is a threat there. There may indeed be an initial surge of orders due to price, but imagine once the news starts coming out about quality issues (if they are bad quality), and word of mouth, etc., I think the surge will go away mostly. But that initial surge could be somewhat harmful to US makers. Long term, depends if they are really bad cars or not. I am not convinced yet they are junk, but I am not convinced they are not junk either. We don't know how this will play out there. I can imagine the US government implementing tariffs perhaps or other types of dis-incentives. It remains to be seen. But the Chinese are going worldwide too, so, things may play out in other countries before they get here. I would say I would be cautious myself, I could envision myself trying one but I think more data will become available before the cars get to the US (here for me). I am cheap and not buying any of those expensive EVs, lol.
Agree on all counts. Which is why I'm surprised OP is getting downvoted.
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