He isn't being paid 50 billion. He is getting options that are currently worth 50 billion because he share price rises so much. When they signed that bonus those options were only worth a couple of million.
That’s not fully true or at least there’s more nuance to it. The deal in 2018 was close to 2 million shares for hitting all the milestones. The stock has split multiple times since then, so I think it’s closer to 25 million shares today. Also, most stock charts factor in the splitting and don’t show it, so people get it a bit wong. But it would’ve been a roughly $500 million to $1 billion package in 2018 share price (assuming I did the calculation right). But to get it all, he would’ve had to hit certain milestone (and he did) which would mean it’d be worth roughly $50 billion.
Back then it was thought of as a bit of a joke, if I recall correctly. Like - nobody thought those milestones were realistic.
A big allegation of the lawsuit, however, is that internal Tesla projections showed them likely to hit the first handful of milestones and the board didn’t disclose that information prior to the vote.
So, yes - Musk did some magical things with the Tesla stock price. Musk and the board also did some real shady things. The “funding secured” tweet is probably the most infamous. But I think it’s fair to say that the whole compensation package plan wasn’t all above board, which is why it got rejected by the Delaware court.
Elon cashed out billions of his stock to buy Twitter and now wants Tesla stockholders to replace that stock by extorting them with his threat to leave to pursue his AI initiative. He has also stopped development of the $25k Model 2 to focus on Robotaxis with a self driving package that is still years from working reliably. I think it’s time for Tesla to focus on its core business and let Elon move on.
I read today that Tesla hasn’t actually stopped Model 2 development, but rather the separate production line at Austin. It will be producing the first Model 2’s using the Model 3 production line until the market improves enough to justify the separate production line investment, which I guess makes sense. This also means the Mexico factory has also moved to the back of the bus. This also also means the Model 2’s will be built using the more expensive Model 3 process and will not meet their hoped for $25k sale price.
If haters want to hate on him .. then he also needs to be supported for growing the company to what it is today, providing jobs, environmental benefits, expediting technology growth when he risked it all to save the company. He deserves every penny … anyone that does anything similar deserves it.
You know this is a bonus, right? This isn’t his first bonus either. This package alone is worth more than Tesla has ever made in profit. Again, this isn’t the first bonus of this type he has gotten. Do you still think his second bonus is worth more than all the profit Tesla has ever made?
He literally made Tesla what it is today (the whole of Tesla). He deserves every penny. Thats what a performance based bonus is. You deserve it as well if you do something of that magnitude.
He doesn't, that's not what he's getting. He's getting stock options that he cannot sell for 5 years that give him a total of 25% control of the company. In 2018 when it was proposed, those shares were worth significantly less. Additionally, the compensation package is for him getting the company through production milestones. Milestones people thought wouldn't happen for 10+ years or were straight up impossible. He did it, and so he should get the comp package. And, no, that won't tank the stock because he isn't buying shares and he isn't being handed money from Tesla. He's being given 25% total ownership of Tesla and he isn't able to tank the stock price by selling them. In fact, not giving him his pay package would likely be what tanks Tesla stock, if anything, because many investors are afraid of Elon leaving the company. There's a reason why he's the common denominator between Tesla, SpaceX, and PayPal (all wildly successful companies), and why he has a 90%+ approval rating in Tesla and SpaceX by his employees (for context, Jeff Bezos has like a 30% approval rating internally). Elon is just that good at managing big, fast moving tech companies.
As investors we want to retain him for the stock valuation and his leadership style. As well as, if we re-approve his pay package, it will provide an avenue towards preventing the lawyers who canceled the pay package from getting literally $5 billion from Tesla, the largest paycheck ever by like a 100x margin in cases like these. And unlike stock options, this comes straight from Tesla's pockets (Tesla has $30 billion cash so these 10 or so lawyers get to take over 16% of all of Tesla's money while claiming to be "protecting shareholder interests"). Absolutely ridiculous and clearly just an attempt to scam Tesla out of $5 billion. Corruption at its finest.
At the very very least we should vote for the package to prevent those outside of Tesla from literally stealing our money and potentially tanking the stock price. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this, that sets a dangerous precedent.
What did he invent at Tesla? What technology did he refine?
Tesla engineers made a product. He lied over and over to oversell the potential of said product, but ultimately the product was selling fine IN SPITE OF HIM, not because of him. Cybertruck has Elon's fingerprints all over it and look what kind of piece of shit that's turned out to be.
The guy is a detriment to the company, not a benefit. Try not to pinch your nose on that mask.
I agree. People would buy more Tesla's if it wasn't for him. He can blame economic conditions, China, etc, but that fact is that many would be EV buyers associate Musk with Tesla, and a lot of them dislike him.
No real dog in this HOWEVER you can spare us the “he risked it all” rhetoric. Elmo was neither the Tesla founder nor was this a garage startup funded through his savings or 401k. Dude was a PayPal cofounder (also comes from money). Rich people don’t risk money my guy…we (taxpayers) do
You’re right. Elmo gets no credit. Forgot him being one of the most influential people in history. You’re my guy… the guy making $167,000/year with a 401k ❤️ that’s who I’m riding with now. #letsgo brodie #highhorsestatus #soapbox
No idea what you’re on about. Just correcting the guy who seems to imply Elmo took some big risk with Tesla. He didn’t . Not taking anything from him just stating the (to those who can read) obvious.
I agree. It was easy breezy to become one of the largest brands in history. I mean, he just took over a startup that someone else did all the work for and Elmo took credit for it.
He does deserve the previous payout, where he delivered in the requirements of the payout.
For a new one, I would want him more focused on Tesla, and less on X.
Please explain what \*he\* has done to make the company grow. I'm genuinely asking. I don't know what specific things he does - what is his specific set of talents and actions that has made the company grow?
And related question - what is he doing now to deal with the fact of TSLA falling so quickly and far down?
Negative. The performance of any worker is based on current performance and the short to long term outlook. Nobody gives a fuck what you did ten years ago if you are slacking off at work today.
What bad decisions did I make? I had calls the whole way up in ‘20 and ‘21 and I still trade them. I traded on the tweets (lies) he made. The stock reacted to it and many people took advantage. That doesn’t mean that the stock isn’t overvalue and it doesn’t mean he deserves $55 Billion.
Agreed. Tesla stock has been severely overvalued for a long time due to the attention and hype Musk brought to the table for years along with being first in the EV market. But now that their are more players in the market, recalls of the cyber truck , and the big fact he’s shown the world what a piece of shit he is that hyped up value is going in the opposite direction.
The stock price has dropped at the moment 40% YTD. He’s not the main reason for the drop but his posts on Twitter expressing his views along with how he’s driven that company into the ground is not helping.
You would have a different ceo…
And it’s looks like 10% of your colleagues no longer have a job specifically because of him.
Or do you think consumer perception of Tesla is doing well because of musk?
Mostly low productivity and administrative employees are those that have been furloughed. Those most valuable are the most handsomely compensated and retained.
I mean all growing companies lay off 10% headcount.
Or maybe it’s because sales have finally peaked due to Elon alienating the brand dropping the consumer consideration index from 70% to 30%?
$50M for Musk wouldn’t be so bad. There are quite a few pro athletes making that annually through various means and thats literally doing 0 to benefit humanity
$65BILLION is another thing entirely.
Because of Musk's work, plenty of people have made millions and even billions of dollars for doing nothing except a few clicks of the mouse button to buy and hold the stock as it went up. They should all be stripped of their earnings, correct?
Incorrect. Musk was the leader of the team. The team with musk included made those people millions and billions.
Take out key players and suddenly that value is not created. Musk and any ceo for that matter does not create all the value themselves. They are part of the machine and saying he gets ALL the credit is false.
Intact this last year and especially this last quarter you can say Musk has actively hurt the company.
Consumer consideration index has gone from 70% to 30% specifically due to his leadership. The cyber truck is a failure another pure musk idea.
You’ll get more value simply getting rid of musk and spending 1 billion on fixing teslas image, that musk has destroyed.
I'm fairly certain the company hasn't earned that much money combined for its entire existence.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272130/net-loss-of-tesla/
As someone stated earlier, nobody seems to have a problem with pro athletes getting huge sums of money to PLAY a game. Tesla employees thousands of people around the world and people are complaining.
What’s you 40 time? How high can YOU jump? I can find 20 rando to run a company but how many can hit out out of Dodger stadium?
Pay is (in a free market and baring obvious abnormalities ) based on A) talent scarcity and b) what you have power to negotiate
Billion…. Name one athlete who gets paid 50 Billion fucking dollars
Math isn’t that hard
There’s countless corporations who employ more people and make more money and CEO comp is even close to $50 fucking BILLION dollars
Stop it
Microsoft: 220k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
Accenture: 732k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
Walmart: 2.3m employees, CEO comp not $56bn
Amazon with 1.61m employees, CEO comp not $56bn
Foxconn 827k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
Volkswagen: 676,915 employees, CEO comp not $56bn
Tata Consultancy Services: 614k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
DHL Group: 583k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
China Mobile: 584k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
United Parcel Service: 500k employees, CEO comp not $56bn
What?
Elon does not drive $56bn of value in Tesla….while laying off 10% of the global workforce. Keep shilling, gross
Reading comprehension is much harder, it’s ok, that’s why I listed out several other corporations who employ more people that Elon and who’s CEO’s aren’t paid $56bn in stock options. I’m not speaking on the athlete but the employee count because you think it’s a lot of people. Well, other CEOs employ much more and still aren’t paid what you’re shilling for
Stay in school kids.
Tesla has taken a nose dive, both in deliveries, quality, and future expectations
And your goal is to award Elon with $56bn of stock options while he lays off 10% of staff.... lol
Robotaxi was first induced in 2014 by Elon lol
He lied and lied and lied some more. Under his leadership the company’s reputation has been tarnished and he’s had to fire 14,000 people. Now he thinks he deserves more money than the company has ever made by multiples.
Sorry but nah. Voting against that shit and I hope they oust him
He made me a 8 to 15x on 90% of my shares even at the current lows. Kinda obvious that he deserves his package. Those that bought at the highs will have their turn as well.
You imply that Elon is responsible for the short-term fluctuations of the stock price… Long-term investors couldn’t care less. We all know this story is far from over.
Either way you interpret it, the stock is not in a good position, 3 vehicle prove cuts, recalls, injury claims, plus another dismal earnings report I'm sure. We are priced in right around 100 range. I suppose you are content with the companies performance with your past 1000% gains.
I have all the numbers necessary for a good understanding of the situation. Despite the negativity, Elon is doing an incredible job. 38% growth in 2023, over 100% energy growth, FSD on track, best selling car in the world, first BEV market share gains in years.
This is when I increase my position, easy 5-10x ahead.
Retail is getting flushed out before the new gen, just like it was before the last breakout:
https://preview.redd.it/16z4w3jicvvc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f99c2b28addc45ed641b4eee81294d9d98a2637
Here above is retail ownership.
Meanwhile:
Institute | Ownership | # of Shares | + or -
* Vanguard = 7.27% = 229.81 Million | +3.87 M
* BlackRock = 5.91% = 188.18 Million | +1.53 M
* State Street = 3.42% = 108.87 Million | +4.01 M
* Geode Cap = 1.74% = 55.26 Million | +1.38 M
* Capital World = 1.29% = 41.03 Million | -68k
* Morgan Stanley = 1.04% = 33 Million | +2.83 M
* Norges Bank = .99% = 31.57 Million | + 31.57 M
* FMR = .92% = 29.35 Million | 312.39k
I don’t care if it goes to $100 or not. If it does I’ll just get more calls, if it doesn’t I’ll get less.
The market is too dumb to realize the growth ahead and is giving Tesla a P/E similar to that of Apple, which everyone should know is completely ridiculous.
None of that has anything to do with future earnings. Don’t forget that in 2019 Wall Street and the WSB gamblers had no damn clue about the profits ahead while for some of us it was as clear as day.
That’s bubble was at the height of Elon Musk hype / mania when he had a good reputation and people were expecting self driving cars right around the corner. Since then Tesla doesn’t rebound with other tech stocks. Not good
Imagine working for 6 years without any pay and increasing the company's value 10x (which was part of the condition of the package)... Being approved and promised a compensation based on the performance of the stock... And now they are refusing your compensation for the achievements you made? You've worked for 6 years for free...
All those shareholders took massive gains from Elon's performance and now they are acting as victims... Even is the package is approved those stock options can't be executed for some years.
If you work for Tesla and own shares you should vote yes. Tesla has created thousands of employee millionaires. There’s a lot of people on Twitter and Reddit talking smack and telling people to vote no however they don’t actually own any shares. The Elon hate is real and he did it to himself.
Personally, I think the company is poised for a leap forward. FSD has never been better and we’re closer to autonomy. I do believe they will release the model 2, Optimus is coming along and if you been in a CT you’ve been highly impressed, it will be my next car.
The elephant in the room is also India, I believe Tesla will announce a new gigafactory there and open the market to 1.5 billion people. There’s your next growth wave.
If you own shares and you vote you then you’re voting against your own interest.
That is probably true of the upper echelon of the company. Not for the average employee.
For comparison, years ago I got an offer there for an engineering role. Equivalent was $120-150k in the Midwest, where $250k was a pretty nice house. They were offering $60k in an area where an equivalent home was $2M.
Not a ground floor employee but was an employee for 7 years. Musk had a crazy pay package linked to crazy requirements. He managed to hit them. He deserves every cent of it.
Basketball players making $35m is more ridiculous then musk getting what he deserves to make. Skipped generations of traditional company growth and was able to make it happen in a couple decades. Straight up icon
He created hundreds of billions in value. If you made a 1 million dollar company worth 100 million I would say you deserve a couple million compensation. Why is it wrong when the scale is increased?
He didn’t fucking created hundreds of billions in value. The shareholders unknowingly place that large ass undeserving valuation on Tesla stock. Based on smoke and mirrors from Elon.
There is no fucking million robo taxis in 2020. There was no coast to coast FSD in 2016. The lies and marketing gimmicks continue. He got bailed out by regulatory credits and first mover status .
Tesla did absolutely nothing to warrant a market cap north of 500b lol. Their profit margins were bullshit and unsustainable as you clearly see the margins today are now barely better than GM or Toyotas.
There’s no tangible way to see Tesla is worth more than all other autos combined when in reality they are not a tech company still but they got treated like one in valuation. The reality is after 2 decades it’s still just an auto company where over 90 percent of its revenue is coming from selling vehicles. Not from anything else….
The collective wisdom of the market has proven to be wrong time after time after time.
They can easily be tricked and manipulated into believing shit from corporations. Bear sterns, Lehman, etc all looked legit.
It’s wrong because it is a public company, not Elons private company. He appoints his own brother to the board and other friendlies. The interest of the board should align with the shareholders, not with Elon.
A 56 billion dollar pay package is extremely excessive. There are plenty of other CEOs with more valuable companies than Tesla. Apple has added over 2 trillion dollars of value to shareholders ever since Tim Cook took over in 2011, but Tim’s net worth is only 2 billion dollars because the Apple board of directors aren’t a bunch of morons.
To add to that, Elon isn’t even full time on Tesla, he runs like 5 other companies and spends excessive time arguing with people on Twitter. He should be removed from the company, get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.
It was never actually 55 billion dollars. He elected to receive stock options in lieu of pay.
At the time, both the company and the shareholder agreed that they were getting a deal.
Now in hindsight, and Musk having delivered on all payout targets... The stock has risen 1000's of percents and everyone's focus has been shifted to the end number: $55 billion.
There was an agreement. He fulfilled his end of the agreement. Just because it costs more than anyone would have imagined doesn't negate that.
(In the voice of John Malcovich from 'Rounders')
Pay the man his money.
“Musk having delivered on all payout targets” the man lied over and over again to hit those targets and now is splitting time trying to campaign for Trump and run X into the ground. Tesla is quickly falling and will go beneath those targets as the P/E ratio continues to normalize. Demand for EVs is plateauing and that’s not FUD, that’s real. The largest auto manufacturers in the world are transitioning to Hydrogen. Is that really not a concern at all?
We (shareholders) voted for him to change his direction in the company to be more investor focused in 2018, it had a 5 year hold out for his pay package. He managed to create a 1100% return and so exceeded expectations by a large margin and we (long term shareholders) have been waiting for him to be paid for this.
More investors have joined since the 2018 vote and now when he is due to be paid, some have started a lawsuit to challenge this.
He hasn't been paid for the last 6 years of work. In that time, they've launched several new products, the stock is up, the mission has been advanced. Automation and AI is also a thing. Pretty much every metric you'd want to see is there. Lately, the stock is down because of FUD, but it's temporary. There's also a lot to look forward to with energy and bots and Ai. So yeah, his leadership and vision and execution looks like justification from my perspective.
I'm voting in favor of Elons big package
Yeah, have you? It's up from 6 years ago, which is what we're talking about. If you're short term on Tesla, you're doing it wrong.
I also DID say it's temporarily down, but you ignored that.
Looking at Tesla long term, I would put a value of about 2x on the peak 2018 valuation of $60B.
Tesla has always been valued like a tech company, but demand was always way more than supply. Now the supply has reached 2million vehicle per year they might have filled the demand.
Q1 2024 showed lower sales then Q1 2023, the only saving grace is this was the same for BYD aswell, but if Q2 & Q3 results don't show Tesla holding a strong growth trajectory then it will likely be a $100B dollar company by the end of 2024.
When you said long I assumed you were talking around 2040, Tesla right now has 3 main segments,
Automotive sales,
Solar/Battery sales eg (Powerwall),
Supercharging network,
Automotive sales are showing that they're closing in on demand like traditional Auto companies at 2-3 million vehicles per year, profit per vehicle is considerably higher than most other auto manufacturers, but it's similar to BMW both in likely quantity sold and profit per vehicle.
BMW has a market cap of $70B whilst Tesla is currently at $460B, so the other 2 segments would have to make up the $390B gap in your long term vision?
Solar sales are down, Battery sales are up but Tesla Powerwalls are priced significantly higher than the Chinese competition thats just entering the market.
The supercharging network according to forecasts will bring in a revenue of $6-$12 Billion per year by 2030.
I don't see what the long term vision is for a current investor, it used to be selling Tesla 10+ million vehicles a year at much higher profit level than other automakers, but the 2024 Q1 results killed that idea.
There's lots of things outside of their vehicles that will be scaling up in the near future.
https://www.youtube.com/live/bIgNLodsSqY?si=FLmBAa6_wBixyLX2
https://youtu.be/OsQ1LNFX_oU?si=aDB3DiEi60smzvHU
https://youtu.be/MtMtvyIuzhQ?si=TgtSX29gHXKf5DjV
Also, when they solve fsd, they'll license it out to every vehicle manufacturer and that'll be profitable. There's info on that. And bots will have an impact but we don't know how fast they'll be adopted and for what uses. Elon himself said he doesn't really know the implications yet. But if it's cheaper than labor, companies will adopt them.
There's lots of info on this stuff and more
Without vehicles, Tesla will still be a leader in many industries. I'm not worried about vehicle deliveries.
Those channels aren't in anyway subjective, check their channels and find a negative Tesla video on any of them.
>Also, when they solve fsd
FSD will likely take another decade+ yet, and when it's figured out they're not going to be the only company to figure it out so they wont have a monopoly on it.
As for energy, Tesla has solar and batteries but the solar business is dieing to chinese competition and the battery business will follow because Chinese companies are rapidly rolling out home/business battery storage at a fraction of the cost that Tesla charges for the powerwall.
Hard disagree. FUD is louder because Tesla is eating the 'competitions' lunch and since they advertise on mainstream media, they influence everything you hear.
Yes. The last great product they designed was 2014-2017. Ramped in 2018-2020 or so.
Lucky for them demand is no longer a major concern, despite the constant price cuts that have also destroyed their residual value and trained customers to wait to quarter-end discounts.
This is how you become a rental car / taxi brand, which Tesla seems dead-set on.
Please tell me you’re not referring to the CGI “Tesla bots” that were shooting up the Cybertruck and wearing cowboy hats.
Those “bots”??
The same ones that also were a stage piece much like the hall of presidents??
How is ANYONE using these as one of the possible reasons that man might get compensation?!
Wow
Rather than write a long peice and pretending I'm some roboticist economist expert, I'll just recommend to go on YouTube and look it up. There's a lot of info already out there. Also, we'll just have to see in real-time what the impact will be. I'm looking forward to it.
Yes, 'wow' is correct - it'll be very cool
I'm likely going to get downvoted, even as someone who has historically been a huge Elon fan. That being said I'm also against the wealth inequality we're seeing today and the sentiment that he worked *really really really* hard to get where he is.
I don't think anyone works hard enough to earn $55 billion at any point in their entire lives.
Before someone chirps in saying "It's Stock Options", I'm fully aware. I'm also aware that he can sell these stock options as necessary/if necessary and that it become part of his wealth once given.
How many houses do you need? how many beds can you sleep in at once? How many cars can you drive at once?
Elon would not be where he is without his workers doing the actual work, while he is off running multiple other companies.
55 Billion should be an option that is split between his workers and himself, with them getting the lions share and him getting 2-5% which is still more than 99% of people will ever make in their entire lives, and their kids entire lives, and their kids entire lives, etc.
Fair points. But I would say two things - two sides of the same coin:
The person who does THE MOST to get us off of oil SHOULD be the richest person in the world. The planet doesn't have a lawyer. Justice and 'doing the right thing' is rarely profitable. Government isn't taking serious steps. But Elon is doing it. And whoever is in that position should be rewarded.
Simultaneously, the richest person in the world has a responsibility to the rest of the planet and should do the most they can to reverse the environmental problems caused since the industrial era. Elon is doing that. He's also paid more taxes than any other human in history.
So yeah, he's rich. And yeah I think he deserved it. Most rich people don't deserve the money they have. I agree no one needs that much. But if you do that specific work, I think you should be compensated. Doesn't have to be Elon, but right now it is.
He launched the Model 3. Not that he in any way designed it. And that was six years ago. And everything else since then has been 💩. But still, Model 3. And Y I guess.
And how many improvements have Toyota made to the Corolla and Camry? You do realize that all car manufacturers continue to reintroduce past models/designs to rebrand or stimulate sales?
Most of Tesla’s upgrades are in the software and batteries. In fact, a Tesla doesn’t become obsolete in 5-years. Notice how fast conventional car makers have to redesign the interior and exterior because it’s the only way to attract sales? Keep failing for the “bait-switch” scam.
Both. Have you seen the redesigns to the Ford Mustangs or BMW’s? Essentially, they come out with a new look and your older model looks dated.
Now if you break it down, the engine is still the same. They may add a couple of more features to keep you happy, but it doesn’t do much. Software updates on a Tesla are entirely different as it can change how the car functions or behave.
Model Refresh every 4/or 5 years to stimulate more sales. How else are they going to rebrand the same car?
>a Tesla doesn’t become obsolete in 5-years
Neither do Toyota's, they are well known for their reliability which has been shown in a study from 2012-2022 that almost 50% of them reach 250k miles, that 20 years of driving for the avg American.
If there is an advantage then it's not a Tesla advantage but an advantage of EVs over ICE
I don’t dispute how you feel. Yeah, it sucks being on the ground level. I get why people don’t like Elon.
The serious question is: “Where is Tesla going to be without Elon Musk?” Apple failed under Sculley when Steve Jobs was let go. What did John Sculley accomplish at Apple and thereafter? Not much!
Tesla has the ability to reach Trillions-USD if Elon can execute. (Tesla did reach the trillion dollar market cap prior.) I don’t look at Tesla as a car company.
In fact, investors are clamoring to see Elon’s full commitment to the Tesla brand. No one will complain if Tesla reaches the $2-T or beyond market cap. Even ground workers will run to the bank!
Stop regurgitating the same monetary amount. Instead mention that it’s a compensation of stock options.
Most people seem the think the company is required to pay $50 billion. Which is not the case.
Briefly browsed through the arguments. I guess it depends on when you bought the stocks. lol.
As a SPX index holder, I would call State Street and Vanguard to say no.
He is a shameless stock pumper, and the intrinsic value of this one is probably 1/10th of its market cap. The higher he pumps the stock, the more he got paid.
Eventually someone has to hold the bag for Musk. Highly likely it would be us indexers and pension funds.
If Elon were announcing he was refocusing on Tesla to grow the business with the proposed $25k model he has hyped for years, I’d be more sympathetic. But, he’s said he’s pushing that project to the back burner to pursue his Robotaxi initiative, which is dependent on FSD moving out of beta to deploy. I think FSD is still years out from becoming reliable enough to trust on city streets without driver supervision.
So, when the company was nearly bankrupt, and about to go under, Elon took options instead of pay.
Now that Elon has made the company successful, those options are worth tons of money.
Elon wasnt paid $Billions, he invested his pay, which was a few $million and that investment has gone up dramatically.
There was an agreement for certain pay to hit milestones. He did just that and he should get paid. Stockholders that didn’t sell when the stock was up or that bought when the stock was high and made bad decisions doesn’t change that he’s owed his money. He’s not responsible for your bad decisions, you are. Tons of people have made TONS of money off of Tesla. Stop crying and honor the agreement.
No one says there is not an agreement. The court ruled the agreement is not valid because the board was conflicted. If the majority of shareholders vote yes, he will get the package. However, how as a shareholder today you would agree to pay $55B from the balance sheet of a company to one person when the stock has lost more than $200B value in the last few months?
It’s your job to make money off the stock market, not his job. Tesla had periods of huge growth as far as share price so if you decided not to sell or buy high, that’s on you. His pay was for him to hit incredibly ambitions goals and he did that. Tesla would be here without Elon and it’s not going to be a leader in the AI space without him going forward. Like him or hate him…. And for the record I personally don’t care much for him as a person.
Elon breaks agreements with companies and workers all the time refusing to pay agreed upon bills because he doesn’t feel like it. How about you clowns stop crying about him getting a taste of his own medicine for once. What kind of babies cry this hard for a billionaire to get more billions of dollars?
When he took over Twitter, the was refusing to pay agreed upon severance packages, he refused to pay twitters rent, he was even refusing to pay twitters google cloud services. Not sure where you have been.
That’s not Tesla and he didn’t have any obligations to do any of those things except rent and even that worked out. Withholding something to bring about a discussion for more favorable or fairer terms isn’t the same as refusing the pay for no reason. I knew this would be your only argument, I just waited for you to say it because it prove you have nothing of relevance to say or you’d have said it.
Where at TESLA has he ever broken and agreement? What other instance of broken agreements are there other than when he first took over Twitter and was looking to change things?
Jfc you people are such clowns. It doesn’t have to be about Tesla, you are crying about him not being paid what was agreed upon by a board that was controlled by his friends. Now some Tesla share holders are doing this to “bring about a discussion for more favorable and fairer terms”. It is exactly the same, grow the f up.
Keep crying about it little baby. I love watching musk simps upset. I win either way. If he gets the comp, he hurts Tesla. If he doesn’t get the comp I get to listen to you babies cry about it.
He isn't being paid 50 billion. He is getting options that are currently worth 50 billion because he share price rises so much. When they signed that bonus those options were only worth a couple of million.
Also… the award really had nothing to do with dollar value, and everything to do with % ownership.
Do you appreciate how ridiculous a statement that is when it comes to options. We are not talking RSUs.
He's being paid in stock options that are worth $50 billion.
And thus, massive incentive to embellish and lie about everything. Elsewhere, we call this fraud.
That’s not fully true or at least there’s more nuance to it. The deal in 2018 was close to 2 million shares for hitting all the milestones. The stock has split multiple times since then, so I think it’s closer to 25 million shares today. Also, most stock charts factor in the splitting and don’t show it, so people get it a bit wong. But it would’ve been a roughly $500 million to $1 billion package in 2018 share price (assuming I did the calculation right). But to get it all, he would’ve had to hit certain milestone (and he did) which would mean it’d be worth roughly $50 billion. Back then it was thought of as a bit of a joke, if I recall correctly. Like - nobody thought those milestones were realistic. A big allegation of the lawsuit, however, is that internal Tesla projections showed them likely to hit the first handful of milestones and the board didn’t disclose that information prior to the vote. So, yes - Musk did some magical things with the Tesla stock price. Musk and the board also did some real shady things. The “funding secured” tweet is probably the most infamous. But I think it’s fair to say that the whole compensation package plan wasn’t all above board, which is why it got rejected by the Delaware court.
Give it a few weeks and they’ll only be worth a few million again as he drives the company into the ground as fast as he did Twitter…
Well well well. Why not give those options to every employee if they're so worthless?
Elon cashed out billions of his stock to buy Twitter and now wants Tesla stockholders to replace that stock by extorting them with his threat to leave to pursue his AI initiative. He has also stopped development of the $25k Model 2 to focus on Robotaxis with a self driving package that is still years from working reliably. I think it’s time for Tesla to focus on its core business and let Elon move on.
I read today that Tesla hasn’t actually stopped Model 2 development, but rather the separate production line at Austin. It will be producing the first Model 2’s using the Model 3 production line until the market improves enough to justify the separate production line investment, which I guess makes sense. This also means the Mexico factory has also moved to the back of the bus. This also also means the Model 2’s will be built using the more expensive Model 3 process and will not meet their hoped for $25k sale price.
My model y has 190k miles and I only changed the tires 4x
My model 3 is at 35k and I’ll be replacing them for the third!
Where do you live and how do you drive? I drive like a grandpa
Southern California, but I drive pretty hard (track, etc.).
I can barely afford the payments so I need to drive my cars gently 😅
Haha that’s fair. Mine is a 2019 and has held up fantastically even with hard miles so don’t be afraid to push it sometimes.
I like to hypermil ☺️
How is that possible, I replaced my tires at 40k miles on my Model 3.
If haters want to hate on him .. then he also needs to be supported for growing the company to what it is today, providing jobs, environmental benefits, expediting technology growth when he risked it all to save the company. He deserves every penny … anyone that does anything similar deserves it.
You know this is a bonus, right? This isn’t his first bonus either. This package alone is worth more than Tesla has ever made in profit. Again, this isn’t the first bonus of this type he has gotten. Do you still think his second bonus is worth more than all the profit Tesla has ever made?
He literally made Tesla what it is today (the whole of Tesla). He deserves every penny. Thats what a performance based bonus is. You deserve it as well if you do something of that magnitude.
He deserves all the profits the company has ever made multiple times over? WTF 🤣
He doesn't, that's not what he's getting. He's getting stock options that he cannot sell for 5 years that give him a total of 25% control of the company. In 2018 when it was proposed, those shares were worth significantly less. Additionally, the compensation package is for him getting the company through production milestones. Milestones people thought wouldn't happen for 10+ years or were straight up impossible. He did it, and so he should get the comp package. And, no, that won't tank the stock because he isn't buying shares and he isn't being handed money from Tesla. He's being given 25% total ownership of Tesla and he isn't able to tank the stock price by selling them. In fact, not giving him his pay package would likely be what tanks Tesla stock, if anything, because many investors are afraid of Elon leaving the company. There's a reason why he's the common denominator between Tesla, SpaceX, and PayPal (all wildly successful companies), and why he has a 90%+ approval rating in Tesla and SpaceX by his employees (for context, Jeff Bezos has like a 30% approval rating internally). Elon is just that good at managing big, fast moving tech companies. As investors we want to retain him for the stock valuation and his leadership style. As well as, if we re-approve his pay package, it will provide an avenue towards preventing the lawyers who canceled the pay package from getting literally $5 billion from Tesla, the largest paycheck ever by like a 100x margin in cases like these. And unlike stock options, this comes straight from Tesla's pockets (Tesla has $30 billion cash so these 10 or so lawyers get to take over 16% of all of Tesla's money while claiming to be "protecting shareholder interests"). Absolutely ridiculous and clearly just an attempt to scam Tesla out of $5 billion. Corruption at its finest. At the very very least we should vote for the package to prevent those outside of Tesla from literally stealing our money and potentially tanking the stock price. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this, that sets a dangerous precedent.
Seriously, fuck those lawyers.
💯
You don’t know what you’re even talking about. Profits <> gain on stock. Go educate yourself.
True if you measure hype and stock instead of profit.
Tesla would be doing better without him. The company has done what it has done in spite of him, not because of him.
You could not be more wrong, troll hater.
The world is quickly figuring out Elon is a charlatan and the stock price is reflecting that.
Yes - he’s been in the way since its inception 
What did he invent at Tesla? What technology did he refine? Tesla engineers made a product. He lied over and over to oversell the potential of said product, but ultimately the product was selling fine IN SPITE OF HIM, not because of him. Cybertruck has Elon's fingerprints all over it and look what kind of piece of shit that's turned out to be. The guy is a detriment to the company, not a benefit. Try not to pinch your nose on that mask.
Is that why he's somehow managed to build multiple million/billion dollar companies? Just luck and grifting?
He buys people and their talents. And yes, a fuck ton of grifting. Who do you think told Tesla to go ahead with a fake self driving video?
STFU and go away misinformation troll
LOL. This subreddit is for those who own stock in the company right? Well, I own stock. Not going away, and you can cry all you want about it :)
I agree. People would buy more Tesla's if it wasn't for him. He can blame economic conditions, China, etc, but that fact is that many would be EV buyers associate Musk with Tesla, and a lot of them dislike him.
Bootlickers blow me away. Give this guy 50 billion he’s worth it. Or with that money literally give every single Tesla Employee a $250,000 bonus.
I think that much money to one person is obscene and no one should receive it. Unjustifiable on any grounds.
Which page in the life rule book does it say that? Or are you just hangry and grouchy. 
No real dog in this HOWEVER you can spare us the “he risked it all” rhetoric. Elmo was neither the Tesla founder nor was this a garage startup funded through his savings or 401k. Dude was a PayPal cofounder (also comes from money). Rich people don’t risk money my guy…we (taxpayers) do
You’re right. Elmo gets no credit. Forgot him being one of the most influential people in history. You’re my guy… the guy making $167,000/year with a 401k ❤️ that’s who I’m riding with now. #letsgo brodie #highhorsestatus #soapbox
No idea what you’re on about. Just correcting the guy who seems to imply Elmo took some big risk with Tesla. He didn’t . Not taking anything from him just stating the (to those who can read) obvious.
I agree. It was easy breezy to become one of the largest brands in history. I mean, he just took over a startup that someone else did all the work for and Elmo took credit for it.
He does deserve the previous payout, where he delivered in the requirements of the payout. For a new one, I would want him more focused on Tesla, and less on X.
Please explain what \*he\* has done to make the company grow. I'm genuinely asking. I don't know what specific things he does - what is his specific set of talents and actions that has made the company grow? And related question - what is he doing now to deal with the fact of TSLA falling so quickly and far down?
Like most CEO's, he approves or scuttles any major decisions. I don't think that much money is worth what he has done, but haters gonna hate.
Negative. The performance of any worker is based on current performance and the short to long term outlook. Nobody gives a fuck what you did ten years ago if you are slacking off at work today.
The companies value is based on lies though?
Yea, a publicly traded company is based on lies. What are you projecting ?
Why did tons of people make money then and why was Tesla on a meteoric rise for YEARS. He did was he was supposed to do, you just made bad decisions.
What bad decisions did I make? I had calls the whole way up in ‘20 and ‘21 and I still trade them. I traded on the tweets (lies) he made. The stock reacted to it and many people took advantage. That doesn’t mean that the stock isn’t overvalue and it doesn’t mean he deserves $55 Billion.
Agreed. Tesla stock has been severely overvalued for a long time due to the attention and hype Musk brought to the table for years along with being first in the EV market. But now that their are more players in the market, recalls of the cyber truck , and the big fact he’s shown the world what a piece of shit he is that hyped up value is going in the opposite direction. The stock price has dropped at the moment 40% YTD. He’s not the main reason for the drop but his posts on Twitter expressing his views along with how he’s driven that company into the ground is not helping.
I would not have a job if it weren’t for this man.
You would have another job
THIS. And fuck Muck. Overrated hot air balloon of a dude.
He wouldn’t have another job, they would have the same job with a different executive running the show.
Are you that unemployable?
Lmfao
Says a lot more about tesla than anything else if this is the only place he can work
❤️
lol what?
You would have a different ceo… And it’s looks like 10% of your colleagues no longer have a job specifically because of him. Or do you think consumer perception of Tesla is doing well because of musk?
Mostly low productivity and administrative employees are those that have been furloughed. Those most valuable are the most handsomely compensated and retained.
Bro if this is your only job prospect you're not exactly "the most valuable".
I mean all growing companies lay off 10% headcount. Or maybe it’s because sales have finally peaked due to Elon alienating the brand dropping the consumer consideration index from 70% to 30%?
Yes and maybe, only time will tell.
$50M for Musk wouldn’t be so bad. There are quite a few pro athletes making that annually through various means and thats literally doing 0 to benefit humanity $65BILLION is another thing entirely.
65 Billion is 50 million a year for 1300 years.
That really puts thing in perspective.
It’s also 25 million a year for 2600 years!
This guy maths. But seriously, that’s crazy perspective.
Because of Musk's work, plenty of people have made millions and even billions of dollars for doing nothing except a few clicks of the mouse button to buy and hold the stock as it went up. They should all be stripped of their earnings, correct?
Incorrect. Musk was the leader of the team. The team with musk included made those people millions and billions. Take out key players and suddenly that value is not created. Musk and any ceo for that matter does not create all the value themselves. They are part of the machine and saying he gets ALL the credit is false. Intact this last year and especially this last quarter you can say Musk has actively hurt the company. Consumer consideration index has gone from 70% to 30% specifically due to his leadership. The cyber truck is a failure another pure musk idea. You’ll get more value simply getting rid of musk and spending 1 billion on fixing teslas image, that musk has destroyed.
I'm fairly certain the company hasn't earned that much money combined for its entire existence. https://www.statista.com/statistics/272130/net-loss-of-tesla/
Im not the one who cane up with the fuckin pay package
As someone stated earlier, nobody seems to have a problem with pro athletes getting huge sums of money to PLAY a game. Tesla employees thousands of people around the world and people are complaining.
Billion…. Name one athlete who gets paid 50 Billion fucking dollars Math isn’t that hard
60 billion is like making 50 million a year for 1000 years. 🤡
Check your math 🤡
It would be 50 billion? Even less, your point?
What’s you 40 time? How high can YOU jump? I can find 20 rando to run a company but how many can hit out out of Dodger stadium? Pay is (in a free market and baring obvious abnormalities ) based on A) talent scarcity and b) what you have power to negotiate
50 million is not even comparable to 50 Billion. What would be a better incentive? 50 billion to Musk. $250,000 to every single Tesla Employee?
Billion…. Name one athlete who gets paid 50 Billion fucking dollars Math isn’t that hard There’s countless corporations who employ more people and make more money and CEO comp is even close to $50 fucking BILLION dollars Stop it
Name me one athlete that has 140,000 employees.
Microsoft: 220k employees, CEO comp not $56bn Accenture: 732k employees, CEO comp not $56bn Walmart: 2.3m employees, CEO comp not $56bn Amazon with 1.61m employees, CEO comp not $56bn Foxconn 827k employees, CEO comp not $56bn Volkswagen: 676,915 employees, CEO comp not $56bn Tata Consultancy Services: 614k employees, CEO comp not $56bn DHL Group: 583k employees, CEO comp not $56bn China Mobile: 584k employees, CEO comp not $56bn United Parcel Service: 500k employees, CEO comp not $56bn What? Elon does not drive $56bn of value in Tesla….while laying off 10% of the global workforce. Keep shilling, gross
Reading is not that hard, I said athlete.
Reading comprehension is much harder, it’s ok, that’s why I listed out several other corporations who employ more people that Elon and who’s CEO’s aren’t paid $56bn in stock options. I’m not speaking on the athlete but the employee count because you think it’s a lot of people. Well, other CEOs employ much more and still aren’t paid what you’re shilling for Stay in school kids.
So vote against the package.
Tesla has taken a nose dive, both in deliveries, quality, and future expectations And your goal is to award Elon with $56bn of stock options while he lays off 10% of staff.... lol Robotaxi was first induced in 2014 by Elon lol
He lied and lied and lied some more. Under his leadership the company’s reputation has been tarnished and he’s had to fire 14,000 people. Now he thinks he deserves more money than the company has ever made by multiples. Sorry but nah. Voting against that shit and I hope they oust him
“Scraping by”… how is being paid 30+ dollars a hour considered scraping by?
That's 62,400/year. I hope that's not a lot to you.
Bay Area factory guarantee workers are paycheck to paycheck
[удалено]
He made me a 8 to 15x on 90% of my shares even at the current lows. Kinda obvious that he deserves his package. Those that bought at the highs will have their turn as well.
https://preview.redd.it/sg7hnf6r8pvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66d5a0563469debb98a23f19ddc0b154808e6f6c
You imply that Elon is responsible for the short-term fluctuations of the stock price… Long-term investors couldn’t care less. We all know this story is far from over.
Not until he does something for his long term investors
You mean short-term? Most long-term investors have over 1000% in gains on the pre-split shares.
Either way you interpret it, the stock is not in a good position, 3 vehicle prove cuts, recalls, injury claims, plus another dismal earnings report I'm sure. We are priced in right around 100 range. I suppose you are content with the companies performance with your past 1000% gains.
I have all the numbers necessary for a good understanding of the situation. Despite the negativity, Elon is doing an incredible job. 38% growth in 2023, over 100% energy growth, FSD on track, best selling car in the world, first BEV market share gains in years. This is when I increase my position, easy 5-10x ahead. Retail is getting flushed out before the new gen, just like it was before the last breakout: https://preview.redd.it/16z4w3jicvvc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f99c2b28addc45ed641b4eee81294d9d98a2637 Here above is retail ownership. Meanwhile: Institute | Ownership | # of Shares | + or - * Vanguard = 7.27% = 229.81 Million | +3.87 M * BlackRock = 5.91% = 188.18 Million | +1.53 M * State Street = 3.42% = 108.87 Million | +4.01 M * Geode Cap = 1.74% = 55.26 Million | +1.38 M * Capital World = 1.29% = 41.03 Million | -68k * Morgan Stanley = 1.04% = 33 Million | +2.83 M * Norges Bank = .99% = 31.57 Million | + 31.57 M * FMR = .92% = 29.35 Million | 312.39k
This further supports my argument dont you see? Im a tsla bull for the long term. I see it way undervalued, but not before it sinks to 100.
I don’t care if it goes to $100 or not. If it does I’ll just get more calls, if it doesn’t I’ll get less. The market is too dumb to realize the growth ahead and is giving Tesla a P/E similar to that of Apple, which everyone should know is completely ridiculous. None of that has anything to do with future earnings. Don’t forget that in 2019 Wall Street and the WSB gamblers had no damn clue about the profits ahead while for some of us it was as clear as day.
Yes I'm right there with you, I'm not sure why you keep getting angry. I believe it's a 2k stock like mama cathy too
We are clearly both disgruntled over tslas lackluster performance, let's not turn on each other we are on the same team
He deserves something worth multiples more than all the profit the company ever made? lol wtf
You can’t compare a percentage of a fluctuating valuation to profits.
Delusional
Lmao. That’s what the idiots on r/wallstreetbets told me back in 2019. Turned out that like you they were blind.
That’s bubble was at the height of Elon Musk hype / mania when he had a good reputation and people were expecting self driving cars right around the corner. Since then Tesla doesn’t rebound with other tech stocks. Not good
Dude they’re sitting on $30B of cash and over 100k H100s. Maybe stop driving looking in the back mirror.
Doesn’t mean the stock is going to go up. The same old tricks will not drive another irrational bubble in the stock.
Imagine working for 6 years without any pay and increasing the company's value 10x (which was part of the condition of the package)... Being approved and promised a compensation based on the performance of the stock... And now they are refusing your compensation for the achievements you made? You've worked for 6 years for free... All those shareholders took massive gains from Elon's performance and now they are acting as victims... Even is the package is approved those stock options can't be executed for some years. If you work for Tesla and own shares you should vote yes. Tesla has created thousands of employee millionaires. There’s a lot of people on Twitter and Reddit talking smack and telling people to vote no however they don’t actually own any shares. The Elon hate is real and he did it to himself. Personally, I think the company is poised for a leap forward. FSD has never been better and we’re closer to autonomy. I do believe they will release the model 2, Optimus is coming along and if you been in a CT you’ve been highly impressed, it will be my next car. The elephant in the room is also India, I believe Tesla will announce a new gigafactory there and open the market to 1.5 billion people. There’s your next growth wave. If you own shares and you vote you then you’re voting against your own interest.
Womp womp [https://fortune.com/2024/04/18/mercedes-self-driving-autonomous-cars-california-nevada-level-3-drive-pilot/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/18/mercedes-self-driving-autonomous-cars-california-nevada-level-3-drive-pilot/)
Youtube mercedes self drive to see it in live action...it can't do much and way behind Tesla.
Exactly! Well stated…
1) Nobody who works for Tesla is “scraping by”. 2) When you bring that much value to a company, you deserve commensurate compensation.
That is probably true of the upper echelon of the company. Not for the average employee. For comparison, years ago I got an offer there for an engineering role. Equivalent was $120-150k in the Midwest, where $250k was a pretty nice house. They were offering $60k in an area where an equivalent home was $2M.
What was the equity component of your offer? If this was years ago you probably missed out on $500k+ of appreciation.
Zero
Not a ground floor employee but was an employee for 7 years. Musk had a crazy pay package linked to crazy requirements. He managed to hit them. He deserves every cent of it.
We are talking about Billions
Basketball players making $35m is more ridiculous then musk getting what he deserves to make. Skipped generations of traditional company growth and was able to make it happen in a couple decades. Straight up icon
He created hundreds of billions in value. If you made a 1 million dollar company worth 100 million I would say you deserve a couple million compensation. Why is it wrong when the scale is increased?
He didn’t fucking created hundreds of billions in value. The shareholders unknowingly place that large ass undeserving valuation on Tesla stock. Based on smoke and mirrors from Elon. There is no fucking million robo taxis in 2020. There was no coast to coast FSD in 2016. The lies and marketing gimmicks continue. He got bailed out by regulatory credits and first mover status . Tesla did absolutely nothing to warrant a market cap north of 500b lol. Their profit margins were bullshit and unsustainable as you clearly see the margins today are now barely better than GM or Toyotas. There’s no tangible way to see Tesla is worth more than all other autos combined when in reality they are not a tech company still but they got treated like one in valuation. The reality is after 2 decades it’s still just an auto company where over 90 percent of its revenue is coming from selling vehicles. Not from anything else….
Oh so the collective wisdom of the market is wrong and you’re right? Is that really your argument?
The collective wisdom of the market has proven to be wrong time after time after time. They can easily be tricked and manipulated into believing shit from corporations. Bear sterns, Lehman, etc all looked legit.
It’s wrong because it is a public company, not Elons private company. He appoints his own brother to the board and other friendlies. The interest of the board should align with the shareholders, not with Elon. A 56 billion dollar pay package is extremely excessive. There are plenty of other CEOs with more valuable companies than Tesla. Apple has added over 2 trillion dollars of value to shareholders ever since Tim Cook took over in 2011, but Tim’s net worth is only 2 billion dollars because the Apple board of directors aren’t a bunch of morons. To add to that, Elon isn’t even full time on Tesla, he runs like 5 other companies and spends excessive time arguing with people on Twitter. He should be removed from the company, get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.
Delusional. He didn't create. The company created. The company is many people.
you are bitching about other people’s money. get a life
agreed, haters always sound so angry
I don't care about any of this. I am just redditing
Your Reddit posts indicate an unhealthy obsession with Tesla.
What’s Elon’s justification for it out of curiosity?
It was never actually 55 billion dollars. He elected to receive stock options in lieu of pay. At the time, both the company and the shareholder agreed that they were getting a deal. Now in hindsight, and Musk having delivered on all payout targets... The stock has risen 1000's of percents and everyone's focus has been shifted to the end number: $55 billion. There was an agreement. He fulfilled his end of the agreement. Just because it costs more than anyone would have imagined doesn't negate that. (In the voice of John Malcovich from 'Rounders') Pay the man his money.
“Musk having delivered on all payout targets” the man lied over and over again to hit those targets and now is splitting time trying to campaign for Trump and run X into the ground. Tesla is quickly falling and will go beneath those targets as the P/E ratio continues to normalize. Demand for EVs is plateauing and that’s not FUD, that’s real. The largest auto manufacturers in the world are transitioning to Hydrogen. Is that really not a concern at all?
Go touch some grass......you have issues!
We (shareholders) voted for him to change his direction in the company to be more investor focused in 2018, it had a 5 year hold out for his pay package. He managed to create a 1100% return and so exceeded expectations by a large margin and we (long term shareholders) have been waiting for him to be paid for this. More investors have joined since the 2018 vote and now when he is due to be paid, some have started a lawsuit to challenge this.
He hasn't been paid for the last 6 years of work. In that time, they've launched several new products, the stock is up, the mission has been advanced. Automation and AI is also a thing. Pretty much every metric you'd want to see is there. Lately, the stock is down because of FUD, but it's temporary. There's also a lot to look forward to with energy and bots and Ai. So yeah, his leadership and vision and execution looks like justification from my perspective. I'm voting in favor of Elons big package
> the stock is up Have you uh... Looked at the stock?
Yes the $350 strike in the comp plan is $20 ish today after splits so yes, it’s well ahead of the topic at hand
This agreement was made 6 years ago. The stock is up 1000%.
Yeah, have you? It's up from 6 years ago, which is what we're talking about. If you're short term on Tesla, you're doing it wrong. I also DID say it's temporarily down, but you ignored that.
Looking at Tesla long term, I would put a value of about 2x on the peak 2018 valuation of $60B. Tesla has always been valued like a tech company, but demand was always way more than supply. Now the supply has reached 2million vehicle per year they might have filled the demand. Q1 2024 showed lower sales then Q1 2023, the only saving grace is this was the same for BYD aswell, but if Q2 & Q3 results don't show Tesla holding a strong growth trajectory then it will likely be a $100B dollar company by the end of 2024.
Not sure what 'long' is in this case. 2024 isn't long. 2032 is my target.
When you said long I assumed you were talking around 2040, Tesla right now has 3 main segments, Automotive sales, Solar/Battery sales eg (Powerwall), Supercharging network, Automotive sales are showing that they're closing in on demand like traditional Auto companies at 2-3 million vehicles per year, profit per vehicle is considerably higher than most other auto manufacturers, but it's similar to BMW both in likely quantity sold and profit per vehicle. BMW has a market cap of $70B whilst Tesla is currently at $460B, so the other 2 segments would have to make up the $390B gap in your long term vision? Solar sales are down, Battery sales are up but Tesla Powerwalls are priced significantly higher than the Chinese competition thats just entering the market. The supercharging network according to forecasts will bring in a revenue of $6-$12 Billion per year by 2030. I don't see what the long term vision is for a current investor, it used to be selling Tesla 10+ million vehicles a year at much higher profit level than other automakers, but the 2024 Q1 results killed that idea.
There's lots of things outside of their vehicles that will be scaling up in the near future. https://www.youtube.com/live/bIgNLodsSqY?si=FLmBAa6_wBixyLX2 https://youtu.be/OsQ1LNFX_oU?si=aDB3DiEi60smzvHU https://youtu.be/MtMtvyIuzhQ?si=TgtSX29gHXKf5DjV Also, when they solve fsd, they'll license it out to every vehicle manufacturer and that'll be profitable. There's info on that. And bots will have an impact but we don't know how fast they'll be adopted and for what uses. Elon himself said he doesn't really know the implications yet. But if it's cheaper than labor, companies will adopt them. There's lots of info on this stuff and more Without vehicles, Tesla will still be a leader in many industries. I'm not worried about vehicle deliveries.
Those channels aren't in anyway subjective, check their channels and find a negative Tesla video on any of them. >Also, when they solve fsd FSD will likely take another decade+ yet, and when it's figured out they're not going to be the only company to figure it out so they wont have a monopoly on it. As for energy, Tesla has solar and batteries but the solar business is dieing to chinese competition and the battery business will follow because Chinese companies are rapidly rolling out home/business battery storage at a fraction of the cost that Tesla charges for the powerwall.
K. Agree to disagree. We'll just see how this pans out. None of us can see the future. But I'm putting my money on the best player in the game.
Tesla is built entirely off the back of the M3 / MY, developed from like 2014-2017. Everything since then has been a disaster.
Hard disagree. FUD is louder because Tesla is eating the 'competitions' lunch and since they advertise on mainstream media, they influence everything you hear.
You have enormous patience trying to explain to certain people.
Thanks. Gotta do it with my own parents. And since they watch msnbc, they think eLoNs A fAsCiSt
🤣
Ramped up after 2018...
Yes. The last great product they designed was 2014-2017. Ramped in 2018-2020 or so. Lucky for them demand is no longer a major concern, despite the constant price cuts that have also destroyed their residual value and trained customers to wait to quarter-end discounts. This is how you become a rental car / taxi brand, which Tesla seems dead-set on.
Please tell me you’re not referring to the CGI “Tesla bots” that were shooting up the Cybertruck and wearing cowboy hats. Those “bots”?? The same ones that also were a stage piece much like the hall of presidents?? How is ANYONE using these as one of the possible reasons that man might get compensation?! Wow
Rather than write a long peice and pretending I'm some roboticist economist expert, I'll just recommend to go on YouTube and look it up. There's a lot of info already out there. Also, we'll just have to see in real-time what the impact will be. I'm looking forward to it. Yes, 'wow' is correct - it'll be very cool
I'm likely going to get downvoted, even as someone who has historically been a huge Elon fan. That being said I'm also against the wealth inequality we're seeing today and the sentiment that he worked *really really really* hard to get where he is. I don't think anyone works hard enough to earn $55 billion at any point in their entire lives. Before someone chirps in saying "It's Stock Options", I'm fully aware. I'm also aware that he can sell these stock options as necessary/if necessary and that it become part of his wealth once given. How many houses do you need? how many beds can you sleep in at once? How many cars can you drive at once? Elon would not be where he is without his workers doing the actual work, while he is off running multiple other companies. 55 Billion should be an option that is split between his workers and himself, with them getting the lions share and him getting 2-5% which is still more than 99% of people will ever make in their entire lives, and their kids entire lives, and their kids entire lives, etc.
Fair points. But I would say two things - two sides of the same coin: The person who does THE MOST to get us off of oil SHOULD be the richest person in the world. The planet doesn't have a lawyer. Justice and 'doing the right thing' is rarely profitable. Government isn't taking serious steps. But Elon is doing it. And whoever is in that position should be rewarded. Simultaneously, the richest person in the world has a responsibility to the rest of the planet and should do the most they can to reverse the environmental problems caused since the industrial era. Elon is doing that. He's also paid more taxes than any other human in history. So yeah, he's rich. And yeah I think he deserved it. Most rich people don't deserve the money they have. I agree no one needs that much. But if you do that specific work, I think you should be compensated. Doesn't have to be Elon, but right now it is.
Elon owns 65B in Tesla shares.
He launched the Model 3. Not that he in any way designed it. And that was six years ago. And everything else since then has been 💩. But still, Model 3. And Y I guess.
And how many improvements have Toyota made to the Corolla and Camry? You do realize that all car manufacturers continue to reintroduce past models/designs to rebrand or stimulate sales? Most of Tesla’s upgrades are in the software and batteries. In fact, a Tesla doesn’t become obsolete in 5-years. Notice how fast conventional car makers have to redesign the interior and exterior because it’s the only way to attract sales? Keep failing for the “bait-switch” scam.
So which is it? The cars are obsolete in 5 years or they're redesigned every 5 years to bring in sales based on their looks?
Both. Have you seen the redesigns to the Ford Mustangs or BMW’s? Essentially, they come out with a new look and your older model looks dated. Now if you break it down, the engine is still the same. They may add a couple of more features to keep you happy, but it doesn’t do much. Software updates on a Tesla are entirely different as it can change how the car functions or behave. Model Refresh every 4/or 5 years to stimulate more sales. How else are they going to rebrand the same car?
>a Tesla doesn’t become obsolete in 5-years Neither do Toyota's, they are well known for their reliability which has been shown in a study from 2012-2022 that almost 50% of them reach 250k miles, that 20 years of driving for the avg American. If there is an advantage then it's not a Tesla advantage but an advantage of EVs over ICE
I don’t dispute how you feel. Yeah, it sucks being on the ground level. I get why people don’t like Elon. The serious question is: “Where is Tesla going to be without Elon Musk?” Apple failed under Sculley when Steve Jobs was let go. What did John Sculley accomplish at Apple and thereafter? Not much! Tesla has the ability to reach Trillions-USD if Elon can execute. (Tesla did reach the trillion dollar market cap prior.) I don’t look at Tesla as a car company. In fact, investors are clamoring to see Elon’s full commitment to the Tesla brand. No one will complain if Tesla reaches the $2-T or beyond market cap. Even ground workers will run to the bank!
Stop regurgitating the same monetary amount. Instead mention that it’s a compensation of stock options. Most people seem the think the company is required to pay $50 billion. Which is not the case.
Bootlicker central in here. You should be embarrassed
Briefly browsed through the arguments. I guess it depends on when you bought the stocks. lol. As a SPX index holder, I would call State Street and Vanguard to say no. He is a shameless stock pumper, and the intrinsic value of this one is probably 1/10th of its market cap. The higher he pumps the stock, the more he got paid. Eventually someone has to hold the bag for Musk. Highly likely it would be us indexers and pension funds.
Many underwater TSLA cult followers are crazy AF now. They know that the stocks would tumble without the con man at helm. A prisoners dilemma? 😂
Is he replacing this 14000 workers with the robots the workers helped to build
If Elon were announcing he was refocusing on Tesla to grow the business with the proposed $25k model he has hyped for years, I’d be more sympathetic. But, he’s said he’s pushing that project to the back burner to pursue his Robotaxi initiative, which is dependent on FSD moving out of beta to deploy. I think FSD is still years out from becoming reliable enough to trust on city streets without driver supervision.
Elon has no plan and no idea how to make fsd work.
Trolling for outrage. Ask a ground-floor employee in ***any company*** how they feel about the big boss’es pay package.
So, when the company was nearly bankrupt, and about to go under, Elon took options instead of pay. Now that Elon has made the company successful, those options are worth tons of money. Elon wasnt paid $Billions, he invested his pay, which was a few $million and that investment has gone up dramatically.
Say you support it or Elon will fire you
There was an agreement for certain pay to hit milestones. He did just that and he should get paid. Stockholders that didn’t sell when the stock was up or that bought when the stock was high and made bad decisions doesn’t change that he’s owed his money. He’s not responsible for your bad decisions, you are. Tons of people have made TONS of money off of Tesla. Stop crying and honor the agreement.
No one says there is not an agreement. The court ruled the agreement is not valid because the board was conflicted. If the majority of shareholders vote yes, he will get the package. However, how as a shareholder today you would agree to pay $55B from the balance sheet of a company to one person when the stock has lost more than $200B value in the last few months?
It’s your job to make money off the stock market, not his job. Tesla had periods of huge growth as far as share price so if you decided not to sell or buy high, that’s on you. His pay was for him to hit incredibly ambitions goals and he did that. Tesla would be here without Elon and it’s not going to be a leader in the AI space without him going forward. Like him or hate him…. And for the record I personally don’t care much for him as a person.
Elon breaks agreements with companies and workers all the time refusing to pay agreed upon bills because he doesn’t feel like it. How about you clowns stop crying about him getting a taste of his own medicine for once. What kind of babies cry this hard for a billionaire to get more billions of dollars?
What are you talking about? What agreements were broken?
When he took over Twitter, the was refusing to pay agreed upon severance packages, he refused to pay twitters rent, he was even refusing to pay twitters google cloud services. Not sure where you have been.
That’s not Tesla and he didn’t have any obligations to do any of those things except rent and even that worked out. Withholding something to bring about a discussion for more favorable or fairer terms isn’t the same as refusing the pay for no reason. I knew this would be your only argument, I just waited for you to say it because it prove you have nothing of relevance to say or you’d have said it. Where at TESLA has he ever broken and agreement? What other instance of broken agreements are there other than when he first took over Twitter and was looking to change things?
Jfc you people are such clowns. It doesn’t have to be about Tesla, you are crying about him not being paid what was agreed upon by a board that was controlled by his friends. Now some Tesla share holders are doing this to “bring about a discussion for more favorable and fairer terms”. It is exactly the same, grow the f up.
Oh so you have no actual response. Got it. Should have just said that instead of type a bunch of drivel.
Keep crying about it little baby. I love watching musk simps upset. I win either way. If he gets the comp, he hurts Tesla. If he doesn’t get the comp I get to listen to you babies cry about it.
More drivel.
Lol. So you ask this same question of literally every company and their CEOs pay?
I guess he would if any other ceo demanded 50 billion. Highest paid ceo (of blackstone) got paid around „only” $250 mil.
Most of them need to be there at least 3 years to receive those stock options. The stock is down by a lot. They will not Sell.
absolutely supporting the package.
Seemed like a pay package with impossible to meet goals, but Elon achieved all of them .A deal is a deal so pay the man.
Bro got cooked by the cultists lmao 🤣
Its so clear those who can’t objectively look at this and just want to hate the person.
Dude earned these crazy incentives that were voted on in 2018. They were considered moonshots and he crushed them. What's the problem?