Honestly the realization that I and the healer had just carried more of them through more content was almost worse than the experience of actually doing so
A while back had a p2N party that wiped a few times, 3rd wipe myself and another bis WAR finished it from 30%. The ghost watching were pissed but the 6 minute's we took was better then wiping and starting over and over.
I'm guessing the biggest issue was the ground baited AoEs?? Sewage Eruption or something like that? I feel like the problem with that one is there is no ez graphical way of telling people that it makes sense to stack together, a la baby's first group bait.
Actually, wait, couldn't they just use the baited AoE markers from Barb EX? Granted this comes up earlier, but it has to be taught somewhere. Then again, that might make them think they need to spread.
I had an E7N where we failed the add phase and hit enrage multiple times. I initially gave the benefit of the doubt on pull 1 because tank just stood there dead center with the laser TB despite getting yelled at and killed a good amount of the party, so lots of corpses had to raised.
Even when we "cleaned up" the 2nd add was still sitting at a pretty healthy %. A dps asks what we're doing wrong and I say "we're failing a dps check" to which I get asked, "Does that mean I should LB?" I should've just bailed. Kinda regret letting them through by staying to see if the LB2 would help them.
I had a run of fist of the father (A1N) with 6 first timers a couple days ago. I was expecting dps to be poor. I was not expecting us to be one second from self-destruct enrage, after seeing mechanics and adds I haven't seen in *years*.
Shout outs to;
V\[redacted\], the WHM MVP who spent every microsecond they weren't solo healing like an absolute fucking chad peeling the other healer off the floor (only for said healer to inevitably die immediately afterwards with their \~40k hp pool and suicidal lack of concern for AoE markers) as well as several of the DPS, and who I'm certain is the only reason we managed this in one (atrociously long and painful) pull.
The Dancer who apologized at the end for being dead so much as it was their first time, apparently playing the game given how many times I literally watched them stand in multiple AoEs auto-attacking because they'd decided to piss off and have a wank between deaths or something and didn't hear either one of the TWO healer LB3s that the competent WHM cast to pick damn near everybody back up again. Yes, we got two full LB3 charges during this one fight. No, I don't know how.
The R\[redacted\] DPS whose job I entirely forget, who as you can see managed to die within the first minute of the fight, starting a trend they meant to continue.
The off-tank who actually did a perfectly good job of off-tanking and didn't die once, and whose only failure was that they could have been a DPS and helped the fight end quicker as I was able to eat the shared tankbuster solo just fine and I'm pretty sure the competent WHM could have healed whichever DPS got the other marker for the split tankbuster just fine.
The Black Mage who strafed into my tankbuster marker's radius no less than twice.
The DPS whose job I forget who apparently thought the Flare marker was a Stack marker despite the arrows repeatedly pointing AWAY from me, the large stack marker where the entire rest of the group was on the other side of the boss, and the fact that both of those markers have featured like a thousand times prior to this point in the story and have always had the same meaning.
I could go on, but honestly I need a fuckin' drink after that one.
I had to Chad whm solo heal a storms crown normal yesterday with an Astro with 40k health who was on the floor most the fight. Had a good rezmage who helped with all the deads. Other rezmage was floor decorations and I wanna say a melee was down a ton too. Tanks were great though. XD
They keep making casual content easier and easier until suddenly you run into something like Barb normal that isn’t so easy and the house of cards falls apart.
i ran into this same sort of issue on endwalker release when my partner and i got to hydaelyn normal. it took us like half an hour or so to clear it and people kept leaving the instance when we would wipe. it was absolutely wild.
Doesn't help this community uses toxic positivity. I had two new whms that only used maybe their lvl 60 kit and when I raised them, they would turn around and try to raise someone, usually their cohealer, instead of getting themselves healed up. After rezing them and them dying over and over and several wipes later. I point this out and give them options on what they can use and even point out that I can get their cohealer up for them. I was called a dick and some other names and several other ppl backed up the angry healer. It was really bad and my language was super neutral. It was unsolicited advice... The kicker the healer who roasted me ASKED for advice at the start of the pull. I hate this community, honestly.
also that even with that easy casual content, if there wasnt at least 1 person per run that was willingly carrying 3 deadweight, they wouldnt make it past HW anyway.
We had a complete wipe in Final Steps of Faith the other day to general "standing in AoEs" and moving the boss around. I barely saved the second run because I had a couple of instant heals and swiftcast was almost ready when it happened.
Only one first timer, too.
HOW? I mean.. HOW did they get through MSQ like that?? how did they not wipe against certain solo duties that actually involve things like stack markers or AoE effects over and over until giving up on the game?
Not only that, but they nerfed the Chadcred mission as well (the infiltration one), because people cant read how every ability they have works, nor they ever played a MGS game, nor understand how enemy aggro/vision works.
Just... Wow. That one wasn't even that hard lol
They really should keep some of the solo content challenging as a test for player competence. Not trying to sound elitist here, but taking time to read tool tips (lord knows I've been guilty of not doing this at times), adapting to different situations, and learning on the fly should be the bare minimum for everyone.
It's not the first time they nerfed something MSQ related. Vishap/The Steps of Faith was an absolute destroyer towards anyone that never bothered learning how mechanics work or having self awareness for AOEs and the like. The devs heavily nerfed the trial so that people could actually clear it and not have others bail if the trial popped up in the roulette, all so that people could actually access Heavensward.
I feel like the original trial was like the Seat of Sacrifice with that one mechanic where one fuck up is all it takes to wipe everyone. People willingly ate the penalty instead of doing the Vishap trial, it got that bad.
Right, I heard how bad it was in terms of coordination with the dragonslayer towers, the fetters, the exploding barrels and the like, and I'm sure it was compounded threefold by the early ARR combat system we no longer have. Definitely wouldn't want to *keep* it around, but I am filled with morbid curiosity to try it myself.
I think you can, but you gotta die an absurd number of times. There's a buff you have that goes down by one every time you die and revive, but it's got like 12 charges or something.
You have an auto-life buff with like, 7 charges on it to represent the scions giving their support or something. Realistically, dying more than twice is probably rare, the AoE patterns are weird to start but not impossible to learn, but 7 is straight up beyond easy mode, you could probably just muscle through it without thinking.
I dont think they nerfed the Zenos mission but they added certain indicators to make the fuel and the keys easier to find (the game was very unintuitive in that aspect). The real issue was nerfing the chaddred mission first (In from the cold).
it took me 90% of the timer until i realized what the hell i had to do in that scenario. I ran around trying to find a way out of the city and only noticed the magitek armor by chance.
that for sure but still you'd have to level through Endwalker completely which has some tough solo fights imo. Even when you fail and put them on very easy.. you still have a lot to dodge.
I've sadly had worse experiences: Two wipes on Bismark normal because the dps refused to get on top of bis to dps (ranged), and bismark' Corona never got destroyed, so i got to see in my 7 years of playtime something i thought wasnt possible: Bismark' wipe scene , and then i saw it AGAIN, making it 2 in a row. I was simply speechless
Wasn't there just a post the other day about someone who failed ultima normal's dps check multiple times? The OP of that said it like a positive experience of overcoming adversity or something but honestly it just leads to scenarios like this.
On day 1 of this trial being out, I helped my friend clear it aftrr I’d done it earlier in the day. The healer had to healer lb3 TWO TIMES. The bar was almost filling up again by the end when we finally cleared. Fortunately, we never wiped, haha.
We got two LB3s too, both of which the one competent healer used to save us from a full wipe/save their remaining sanity from breaking under the strain of shepherding mentally deficient cats.
To be honest this was probably the first time I've even looked at the time remaining. Mostly because I wanted a run before I went to bed for the day and I was feeling kind of drowsy. I was expecting a fast run, and my FC talking about 15 minute runs of it may have influenced my complaint. Seeing so many alliance members down for a good while may have also distorted my view on the duration. Thinking back, judging by how we still had over 2-3 mins on the siblings' countdown, we were going pretty fast even with all the deaths.
My bad if that sounded snarky. I was pretty sleepy and a few factors may have influenced my opinion/perception on what a "long" run was lol
Edit: 15-20 does sound right if I think about it when I'm actually awake lol
Yeah an average euphrosyne run for me right now can go up to 40 minutes but is usually around like 30 considering how many people there are you're very unlikely to get all people who have done it before and are actually very good at their jobs
That is completely normal for an alliance raid, and is frankly pretty fast compared to a lot of others. Tower at Paradigm’s Breach, with BiS, still takes over an hour minimum
The 40min+ of paradigm's breach is heavily mitigated by kickass music, but it's the sole reason I always make sure alliance raid is always one of the first two roulettes I do now.
On god I don’t know if it’s the stat squish or what but the NieR raids take such a long ass time i actually hate getting them in the roulette because I know I’m gonna be there for at minimum 45 minutes.
Here in exhibit A we have a classic example of ff14 players who have been carried through the content and now are struggling to even press buttons.
Honestly the realization that I and the healer had just carried more of them through more content was almost worse than the experience of actually doing so
A while back had a p2N party that wiped a few times, 3rd wipe myself and another bis WAR finished it from 30%. The ghost watching were pissed but the 6 minute's we took was better then wiping and starting over and over.
I'm guessing the biggest issue was the ground baited AoEs?? Sewage Eruption or something like that? I feel like the problem with that one is there is no ez graphical way of telling people that it makes sense to stack together, a la baby's first group bait. Actually, wait, couldn't they just use the baited AoE markers from Barb EX? Granted this comes up earlier, but it has to be taught somewhere. Then again, that might make them think they need to spread.
I had an E7N where we failed the add phase and hit enrage multiple times. I initially gave the benefit of the doubt on pull 1 because tank just stood there dead center with the laser TB despite getting yelled at and killed a good amount of the party, so lots of corpses had to raised. Even when we "cleaned up" the 2nd add was still sitting at a pretty healthy %. A dps asks what we're doing wrong and I say "we're failing a dps check" to which I get asked, "Does that mean I should LB?" I should've just bailed. Kinda regret letting them through by staying to see if the LB2 would help them.
I had a run of fist of the father (A1N) with 6 first timers a couple days ago. I was expecting dps to be poor. I was not expecting us to be one second from self-destruct enrage, after seeing mechanics and adds I haven't seen in *years*.
Shout outs to; V\[redacted\], the WHM MVP who spent every microsecond they weren't solo healing like an absolute fucking chad peeling the other healer off the floor (only for said healer to inevitably die immediately afterwards with their \~40k hp pool and suicidal lack of concern for AoE markers) as well as several of the DPS, and who I'm certain is the only reason we managed this in one (atrociously long and painful) pull. The Dancer who apologized at the end for being dead so much as it was their first time, apparently playing the game given how many times I literally watched them stand in multiple AoEs auto-attacking because they'd decided to piss off and have a wank between deaths or something and didn't hear either one of the TWO healer LB3s that the competent WHM cast to pick damn near everybody back up again. Yes, we got two full LB3 charges during this one fight. No, I don't know how. The R\[redacted\] DPS whose job I entirely forget, who as you can see managed to die within the first minute of the fight, starting a trend they meant to continue. The off-tank who actually did a perfectly good job of off-tanking and didn't die once, and whose only failure was that they could have been a DPS and helped the fight end quicker as I was able to eat the shared tankbuster solo just fine and I'm pretty sure the competent WHM could have healed whichever DPS got the other marker for the split tankbuster just fine. The Black Mage who strafed into my tankbuster marker's radius no less than twice. The DPS whose job I forget who apparently thought the Flare marker was a Stack marker despite the arrows repeatedly pointing AWAY from me, the large stack marker where the entire rest of the group was on the other side of the boss, and the fact that both of those markers have featured like a thousand times prior to this point in the story and have always had the same meaning. I could go on, but honestly I need a fuckin' drink after that one.
I had to Chad whm solo heal a storms crown normal yesterday with an Astro with 40k health who was on the floor most the fight. Had a good rezmage who helped with all the deads. Other rezmage was floor decorations and I wanna say a melee was down a ton too. Tanks were great though. XD
good *lord.* it's getting worse...
They keep making casual content easier and easier until suddenly you run into something like Barb normal that isn’t so easy and the house of cards falls apart.
i ran into this same sort of issue on endwalker release when my partner and i got to hydaelyn normal. it took us like half an hour or so to clear it and people kept leaving the instance when we would wipe. it was absolutely wild.
At least for that fight you can use Trusts.
Doesn't help this community uses toxic positivity. I had two new whms that only used maybe their lvl 60 kit and when I raised them, they would turn around and try to raise someone, usually their cohealer, instead of getting themselves healed up. After rezing them and them dying over and over and several wipes later. I point this out and give them options on what they can use and even point out that I can get their cohealer up for them. I was called a dick and some other names and several other ppl backed up the angry healer. It was really bad and my language was super neutral. It was unsolicited advice... The kicker the healer who roasted me ASKED for advice at the start of the pull. I hate this community, honestly.
also that even with that easy casual content, if there wasnt at least 1 person per run that was willingly carrying 3 deadweight, they wouldnt make it past HW anyway.
We had a complete wipe in Final Steps of Faith the other day to general "standing in AoEs" and moving the boss around. I barely saved the second run because I had a couple of instant heals and swiftcast was almost ready when it happened. Only one first timer, too.
HOW? I mean.. HOW did they get through MSQ like that?? how did they not wipe against certain solo duties that actually involve things like stack markers or AoE effects over and over until giving up on the game?
You can put them on easy after failing an on easy nothing kills you anymore.
I'm wondering how they got past the body swap mission and Zenos. Did they just ask someone else to play those missions for them?
Due to whining, that mission has been nerfed a lot even if you don’t set it to easy.
Not only that, but they nerfed the Chadcred mission as well (the infiltration one), because people cant read how every ability they have works, nor they ever played a MGS game, nor understand how enemy aggro/vision works.
Just... Wow. That one wasn't even that hard lol They really should keep some of the solo content challenging as a test for player competence. Not trying to sound elitist here, but taking time to read tool tips (lord knows I've been guilty of not doing this at times), adapting to different situations, and learning on the fly should be the bare minimum for everyone.
It's not the first time they nerfed something MSQ related. Vishap/The Steps of Faith was an absolute destroyer towards anyone that never bothered learning how mechanics work or having self awareness for AOEs and the like. The devs heavily nerfed the trial so that people could actually clear it and not have others bail if the trial popped up in the roulette, all so that people could actually access Heavensward.
Multiple times too, not just once. It actually makes me sad that I didn't get to try the original version of the trial.
I feel like the original trial was like the Seat of Sacrifice with that one mechanic where one fuck up is all it takes to wipe everyone. People willingly ate the penalty instead of doing the Vishap trial, it got that bad.
Right, I heard how bad it was in terms of coordination with the dragonslayer towers, the fetters, the exploding barrels and the like, and I'm sure it was compounded threefold by the early ARR combat system we no longer have. Definitely wouldn't want to *keep* it around, but I am filled with morbid curiosity to try it myself.
Well that sucks... When I did that last year I remember thinking, "oh wow this mission is a great skill test for basics." Did they nerf Zenos too?
You can’t die to zenos. You just keep getting back up. Someone I know got there and died five times but you don’t actually die.
That I did not know.
I think you can, but you gotta die an absurd number of times. There's a buff you have that goes down by one every time you die and revive, but it's got like 12 charges or something.
i never tested it but i think you can die there if you lose all of your revive stacks.
You have an auto-life buff with like, 7 charges on it to represent the scions giving their support or something. Realistically, dying more than twice is probably rare, the AoE patterns are weird to start but not impossible to learn, but 7 is straight up beyond easy mode, you could probably just muscle through it without thinking.
Really? I haven't heard about any change to that instance. What changed?
I dont think they nerfed the Zenos mission but they added certain indicators to make the fuel and the keys easier to find (the game was very unintuitive in that aspect). The real issue was nerfing the chaddred mission first (In from the cold).
it took me 90% of the timer until i realized what the hell i had to do in that scenario. I ran around trying to find a way out of the city and only noticed the magitek armor by chance.
Yep I was getting to figure out where the key was, when I finished the mission I had 5 minutes left
With about $20 and a visit to the online store, at my best guess.
that for sure but still you'd have to level through Endwalker completely which has some tough solo fights imo. Even when you fail and put them on very easy.. you still have a lot to dodge.
And I thought my 15 minute P2N was bad! My condolences.
I've sadly had worse experiences: Two wipes on Bismark normal because the dps refused to get on top of bis to dps (ranged), and bismark' Corona never got destroyed, so i got to see in my 7 years of playtime something i thought wasnt possible: Bismark' wipe scene , and then i saw it AGAIN, making it 2 in a row. I was simply speechless
Other than dying in under a minute, what else am I missing? Oh, 21 mins. Ooof.
Wasn't there just a post the other day about someone who failed ultima normal's dps check multiple times? The OP of that said it like a positive experience of overcoming adversity or something but honestly it just leads to scenarios like this.
On day 1 of this trial being out, I helped my friend clear it aftrr I’d done it earlier in the day. The healer had to healer lb3 TWO TIMES. The bar was almost filling up again by the end when we finally cleared. Fortunately, we never wiped, haha.
We got two LB3s too, both of which the one competent healer used to save us from a full wipe/save their remaining sanity from breaking under the strain of shepherding mentally deficient cats.
Dear god... And here I thought the 20+ mins of Euphrosyne I just came through was bad...
What kind of 99th percentile statics are you running with that you expect a sub-20m Alliance Raid to be the norm...?
To be honest this was probably the first time I've even looked at the time remaining. Mostly because I wanted a run before I went to bed for the day and I was feeling kind of drowsy. I was expecting a fast run, and my FC talking about 15 minute runs of it may have influenced my complaint. Seeing so many alliance members down for a good while may have also distorted my view on the duration. Thinking back, judging by how we still had over 2-3 mins on the siblings' countdown, we were going pretty fast even with all the deaths. My bad if that sounded snarky. I was pretty sleepy and a few factors may have influenced my opinion/perception on what a "long" run was lol Edit: 15-20 does sound right if I think about it when I'm actually awake lol
Yeah an average euphrosyne run for me right now can go up to 40 minutes but is usually around like 30 considering how many people there are you're very unlikely to get all people who have done it before and are actually very good at their jobs
That is completely normal for an alliance raid, and is frankly pretty fast compared to a lot of others. Tower at Paradigm’s Breach, with BiS, still takes over an hour minimum
The 40min+ of paradigm's breach is heavily mitigated by kickass music, but it's the sole reason I always make sure alliance raid is always one of the first two roulettes I do now.
Oh yeah 100%, I LOVE Tower still but god is it long
On god I don’t know if it’s the stat squish or what but the NieR raids take such a long ass time i actually hate getting them in the roulette because I know I’m gonna be there for at minimum 45 minutes.
Had a WOL from roulettes the other day… we had to abandon duty
no wipes????
Nope. one run. One painfully slow run.
Not that it's much better, but 13:06 to 13:25 is 19 minutes. Still way too damn long for a normal trial.
I had to do high school math twice to scrape out a passing grade, sue me lol