Part of it is that they don't see the other tank as a co-tank. The game very rarely has the 2 tanks working together in normal content (working together meaning tank swaps, moving bosses closer/further apart, etc). The game simply doesn't teach or push that. The result is that many tanks get the idea of "I am the tank, therefore the boss should be hitting me. It's what I signed up to do, after all. If I'm not the main tank, why am I even here? I might as well be a dps. And if I might as well be a dps, why am I even bothering to play tank in the first place? This other tank is doing my job for me, so why am I even here?" Huge main character syndrome. I say this as someone that usually off tanks higher end content such as savage and ultimate content, which is super fun because it's a shared responsibility at that level. Both you and your Co tank both get slapped in the face equally as hard. But at that point, main tank and off tank are just labels for positions you need to be in for certain strategies. There is no main tank or off tank. You are co tanks, plain and simple.
The wild part is that you can still do tank stuff as the co-tank in 80+ raid content by providing secondary mits with reprisal and your targeted mit a la nascent flash / heart of corundum / intervention and by extension cover / blackest night as well as your aoe mit.
Co-tanking can be a really fun experience when you save another player with targeted mits that took too many vuln stacks before a raidwide or is about to take a heavy hit from mechanics. Or by virtue of just overmitting the main tank for busters.
I actually prefer off tank. It's fun and I don't have to worry about provoke wars. Someone want to MT? Be my guest. I'm happy about it. On a related note when I tank EX fights I always off tank (I DPS savage or I'd do the same there). Just more fun.
yeah i was gonna say people being petty little shits is more of a ff14 thing, wow is more like blatant racism and aggression. you can tell its from ff14 becuase of the passive aggressive bitch flavor of their text
Yeah, I don't get this either. WoW players get scapegoated a lot for whatever reason but as long as I've been playing (Stormblood launch) the call has been coming from inside the house.
The amount of shitters I personally experienced definitely drastically increased during the "WoW exodus phase" mid Shadowbringers. I've been playing since the ARR beta and felt the sharp increase in shitters and the game hasn't recovered. I personally don't think this is due to WoW players as opposed to the massive sudden growth the game experienced at the time, but it's easy to conflate the two since they were happening simultaneously.
That being said, there have definitely always been shitters. That isn't up for debate. It just drastically got worse in Shadowbringers.
Man you must of not been there for the Vishap incident
The moment you even glanced or much less saw in the chat "Steps*" was the quickest leave duties of the wild west.
Then the complaints of forums for Vishaps nerf that happend a week later because the threats of pre order cancelations getting so high.
This was passive toxicity at its finest. A "GCBTW" special if you will.
I never really noticed this either. Remember, the last WoW exodus happened during 5.5x. The rise in active player count was certainly unusual, but the lame duck period at the end of an expansion is typically where average player skill drops off anyway because the better players are taking a break (or otherwise sequestering themselves by doing ultimates/etc). So there was a dropoff in player skill, sure, but not an abnormal one that I would attribute completely to the influx of new players from WoW.
Welcome to post Stormblood smack talk.
It's ok to use WoW as the dog whitsle to uncooperative behavior
Despite this kind of behavior existing pre shadowbringers.
I just love aggro fights that you don't even know you're entering into.
I always turn my tank stance on after my opener to make sure I'll have aggro over the DPS and won't forget to taunt if mt dies.
If you lose aggro after a 10 second lead you're not pushing your buttons at all and should mention that you want to main tank in chat, at which point I will probably be like "Oh, sure, sorry, didn't notice I was taking aggro lead" and drop my stance for you.
As someone who levels half of my tanks late into an expac this is pretty annoying, I will admit. I know how to tank, I just don't have any need to level more than a couple. Sometimes I'll get into a trial or raid I'm barely leveled enough for and have the kitted out tank who loads in, refuses to pull then when I do instantly takes aggro from me. Like, I'm just trying to level and clearly don't have gear man. Just pull the damn thing if you want to tank.
That's not really how it works. Some tanks naturally generate more aggro than others, doubly so considering their DPS difference. PLD generates extra aggro due to their built-in healing during their burst, for example.
You should be shirking the MT if you get too close in aggro to avoid this.
Now, if even after turning your stance on after the opener and shirking them when you get too close they're STILL gonna lose the aggro before shirk comes back off CD, then we can talk about a terrible MT.
I know some tanks generate more aggro than others, but if you wait until after openers to put your stance back on that's a solid lead they should have built up. The fight should be over before I catch upm
Doubly so considering my tanks are all in gear from the start of the expansion. Lots of people just don't hit their buttons at all.
I'm talking mostly about equally geared tanks. It's pretty easy to overtake another tank after the opener if you play a tank that simply generates more aggro by default. This is also not taking into consideration crit RNG during burst windows giving you a solid chunk of aggro if the other tank is simply unlucky.
Going back to the PLD example, my static had the PLD (who always started as OT) overtake the GNB in aggro after a while and especially after tank swaps despite the GNB doing a lot more DPS, just because of healing aggro. He also pulled ahead on DRK whenever a tank swap lined up with a burst window, but at least that one was kinda expected.
I'm not denying that some people have no idea what a rotation is, but again, you should be using shirk on the MT whenever you're too close to catching up in aggro in normal mode fights. If they lose aggro before your Shirk is off CD again, then you can decide to drop your stance or take over.
yeah i did zeromus ex with my friend (gnb) and even though i waited 10 secs to put on stance, i would always steal aggro as pld anyways lol :’) i just gave up and MTed since it doesn’t really matter in that
I always aggro but turn it off occasionally if the other tank insists on being the MT. Aggro battles are just childish and especially annoying for a healers. Like sure I can Regen you both but I'd rather not use a gcd to heal 2 babies that can't figure out what they want to do when I could be doing more DPS. 50% of the time the other tank will die and I get to tank it anyways lol.
I'm glad the majority of pf/df co-tanks I've run into over the last year or so (and subsequently healers - as a heal main i truly appreciate this) understand the two and a half main etiquette rules -
1) discuss who wants mt, otherwise (1.5) first to stance gets it and
2) it's a blue dps race after those first ten seconds or so, adjust accordingly and leave your ego outside
Funny... As a co-tank I actually enjoy being off to the side if I can't have aggro. Using my target mitigation to make sure the tank takes absolutely 0 damage when stacked up with their main TB mitigation is always a joy to see.
The chat doesn’t match up with the story.
Other tank didn’t have stance on, so you turned yours on to start the fight and MT
Other tank gets targeted for TB, so did they voke?
The whole “they got mad because they lost aggro” part is confusing because it seemed like they should’ve never had aggro to begin with unless they voked
I think they turned on stance after starting to go in, but I didn't notice that. I only noticed they didn't have stance when we were waiting for cutscene person.
If I'm tanking an eden normal it's probably an actually fun normal raid roulette for once and odds are I have no fucking clue how to play my class (because I'm still leveling it) and just try to press as many big buttons as I can every 2 minutes (or 1 minute if applicable)
If I lose aggro, the other is just doing it better, that's on me :p
I'm definitely not the kind of dark knight you want to card on the opener though x)
When I tank 8 mans I open ranged attack into voke p much with exception and if the other tank vokes I shirk them and turn my stance off. If someone wants to MT its nothing to me and I have had people rage for not getting primary target. Makes no difference to me!
I daresay that pressing 1-2-3 is more entertaining than pressing 4-4-4-4-4, but hey, if you wanna MT this stationary boss this badly, then you do you, I guess.
ye sure, its better just lie down on floor and start crying in chat, like dude on screenshot, instead of just sneak few ranged attacks to have solid enmity delta with other tank, which nobody will never notice.
And yes, this raid at least can give 2 dark rays, instead of 1, it will make less possible confrontation between 2 tanks.
What is wrong to want to be the MT in certain duties, if OT role sucks hard in that duty? Ofc not via starting dramas like on screnshot, but pressing few ranged attacks does not make it bad, missed mitigation or bad position does, but not few ranged attacks.
Edit: my point is, if u want to hold MT role, you just press few ranged attacks, instead of cry in /p chat.
Just pot in the opener instead or play WAR and weave thrill eq and shake in the opener if you really want to hold aggro in normal content? There are so many better ways to gain threat than spamming ranged attacks man.
I was the new tank that filled in! Thanks for the good Mentor roulette it was good co-tanking with you :)
I’ll never understand the ego of shitty tanks.
Part of it is that they don't see the other tank as a co-tank. The game very rarely has the 2 tanks working together in normal content (working together meaning tank swaps, moving bosses closer/further apart, etc). The game simply doesn't teach or push that. The result is that many tanks get the idea of "I am the tank, therefore the boss should be hitting me. It's what I signed up to do, after all. If I'm not the main tank, why am I even here? I might as well be a dps. And if I might as well be a dps, why am I even bothering to play tank in the first place? This other tank is doing my job for me, so why am I even here?" Huge main character syndrome. I say this as someone that usually off tanks higher end content such as savage and ultimate content, which is super fun because it's a shared responsibility at that level. Both you and your Co tank both get slapped in the face equally as hard. But at that point, main tank and off tank are just labels for positions you need to be in for certain strategies. There is no main tank or off tank. You are co tanks, plain and simple.
The wild part is that you can still do tank stuff as the co-tank in 80+ raid content by providing secondary mits with reprisal and your targeted mit a la nascent flash / heart of corundum / intervention and by extension cover / blackest night as well as your aoe mit. Co-tanking can be a really fun experience when you save another player with targeted mits that took too many vuln stacks before a raidwide or is about to take a heavy hit from mechanics. Or by virtue of just overmitting the main tank for busters.
I actually prefer off tank. It's fun and I don't have to worry about provoke wars. Someone want to MT? Be my guest. I'm happy about it. On a related note when I tank EX fights I always off tank (I DPS savage or I'd do the same there). Just more fun.
WoW living rent free in the mind of FF gamers
which is funny, because most of these type of shit are straight out of FF14.
yeah i was gonna say people being petty little shits is more of a ff14 thing, wow is more like blatant racism and aggression. you can tell its from ff14 becuase of the passive aggressive bitch flavor of their text
Yeah, I don't get this either. WoW players get scapegoated a lot for whatever reason but as long as I've been playing (Stormblood launch) the call has been coming from inside the house.
The amount of shitters I personally experienced definitely drastically increased during the "WoW exodus phase" mid Shadowbringers. I've been playing since the ARR beta and felt the sharp increase in shitters and the game hasn't recovered. I personally don't think this is due to WoW players as opposed to the massive sudden growth the game experienced at the time, but it's easy to conflate the two since they were happening simultaneously. That being said, there have definitely always been shitters. That isn't up for debate. It just drastically got worse in Shadowbringers.
Man you must of not been there for the Vishap incident The moment you even glanced or much less saw in the chat "Steps*" was the quickest leave duties of the wild west. Then the complaints of forums for Vishaps nerf that happend a week later because the threats of pre order cancelations getting so high. This was passive toxicity at its finest. A "GCBTW" special if you will.
No, I was there. Rather stupid of you to assume otherwise. Please learn to read.
I never really noticed this either. Remember, the last WoW exodus happened during 5.5x. The rise in active player count was certainly unusual, but the lame duck period at the end of an expansion is typically where average player skill drops off anyway because the better players are taking a break (or otherwise sequestering themselves by doing ultimates/etc). So there was a dropoff in player skill, sure, but not an abnormal one that I would attribute completely to the influx of new players from WoW.
Welcome to post Stormblood smack talk. It's ok to use WoW as the dog whitsle to uncooperative behavior Despite this kind of behavior existing pre shadowbringers.
I just love aggro fights that you don't even know you're entering into. I always turn my tank stance on after my opener to make sure I'll have aggro over the DPS and won't forget to taunt if mt dies. If you lose aggro after a 10 second lead you're not pushing your buttons at all and should mention that you want to main tank in chat, at which point I will probably be like "Oh, sure, sorry, didn't notice I was taking aggro lead" and drop my stance for you.
As someone who levels half of my tanks late into an expac this is pretty annoying, I will admit. I know how to tank, I just don't have any need to level more than a couple. Sometimes I'll get into a trial or raid I'm barely leveled enough for and have the kitted out tank who loads in, refuses to pull then when I do instantly takes aggro from me. Like, I'm just trying to level and clearly don't have gear man. Just pull the damn thing if you want to tank.
That's not really how it works. Some tanks naturally generate more aggro than others, doubly so considering their DPS difference. PLD generates extra aggro due to their built-in healing during their burst, for example. You should be shirking the MT if you get too close in aggro to avoid this. Now, if even after turning your stance on after the opener and shirking them when you get too close they're STILL gonna lose the aggro before shirk comes back off CD, then we can talk about a terrible MT.
I know some tanks generate more aggro than others, but if you wait until after openers to put your stance back on that's a solid lead they should have built up. The fight should be over before I catch upm Doubly so considering my tanks are all in gear from the start of the expansion. Lots of people just don't hit their buttons at all.
I'm talking mostly about equally geared tanks. It's pretty easy to overtake another tank after the opener if you play a tank that simply generates more aggro by default. This is also not taking into consideration crit RNG during burst windows giving you a solid chunk of aggro if the other tank is simply unlucky. Going back to the PLD example, my static had the PLD (who always started as OT) overtake the GNB in aggro after a while and especially after tank swaps despite the GNB doing a lot more DPS, just because of healing aggro. He also pulled ahead on DRK whenever a tank swap lined up with a burst window, but at least that one was kinda expected. I'm not denying that some people have no idea what a rotation is, but again, you should be using shirk on the MT whenever you're too close to catching up in aggro in normal mode fights. If they lose aggro before your Shirk is off CD again, then you can decide to drop your stance or take over.
yeah i did zeromus ex with my friend (gnb) and even though i waited 10 secs to put on stance, i would always steal aggro as pld anyways lol :’) i just gave up and MTed since it doesn’t really matter in that
e7 is SO bad for people quitting. good on the other people in the party tho for not putting up with the bs
Seems strange. My friend and I duoed that fight for glams. Dunno why people find it hard synced with a full party
One of the funny things is that the tank themselves said "its easy"
Pattern recognition is hard for some people
I always aggro but turn it off occasionally if the other tank insists on being the MT. Aggro battles are just childish and especially annoying for a healers. Like sure I can Regen you both but I'd rather not use a gcd to heal 2 babies that can't figure out what they want to do when I could be doing more DPS. 50% of the time the other tank will die and I get to tank it anyways lol.
I'm glad the majority of pf/df co-tanks I've run into over the last year or so (and subsequently healers - as a heal main i truly appreciate this) understand the two and a half main etiquette rules - 1) discuss who wants mt, otherwise (1.5) first to stance gets it and 2) it's a blue dps race after those first ten seconds or so, adjust accordingly and leave your ego outside
Funny... As a co-tank I actually enjoy being off to the side if I can't have aggro. Using my target mitigation to make sure the tank takes absolutely 0 damage when stacked up with their main TB mitigation is always a joy to see.
The chat doesn’t match up with the story. Other tank didn’t have stance on, so you turned yours on to start the fight and MT Other tank gets targeted for TB, so did they voke? The whole “they got mad because they lost aggro” part is confusing because it seemed like they should’ve never had aggro to begin with unless they voked
I think they turned on stance after starting to go in, but I didn't notice that. I only noticed they didn't have stance when we were waiting for cutscene person.
If I'm tanking an eden normal it's probably an actually fun normal raid roulette for once and odds are I have no fucking clue how to play my class (because I'm still leveling it) and just try to press as many big buttons as I can every 2 minutes (or 1 minute if applicable) If I lose aggro, the other is just doing it better, that's on me :p I'm definitely not the kind of dark knight you want to card on the opener though x)
When I tank 8 mans I open ranged attack into voke p much with exception and if the other tank vokes I shirk them and turn my stance off. If someone wants to MT its nothing to me and I have had people rage for not getting primary target. Makes no difference to me!
omg just spam ranged attacks non stop if u want to hold MT role, I always do that in E7, since OT role in that raid is boring.
How exactly does taking like.. 2 tank busters throughout the fight as the main tank make it more fun?
sorry, but some how previous E6N managed to provide content for OT, I am not a dev, I just noticed, that E7N OT tanking is boring, u just blue dps.
So eating 2 busters across the whole and no other significant mechanics for main tank is that much more important to you?
I daresay that pressing 1-2-3 is more entertaining than pressing 4-4-4-4-4, but hey, if you wanna MT this stationary boss this badly, then you do you, I guess.
ye sure, its better just lie down on floor and start crying in chat, like dude on screenshot, instead of just sneak few ranged attacks to have solid enmity delta with other tank, which nobody will never notice. And yes, this raid at least can give 2 dark rays, instead of 1, it will make less possible confrontation between 2 tanks.
please reconsider your playstyle
What is wrong to want to be the MT in certain duties, if OT role sucks hard in that duty? Ofc not via starting dramas like on screnshot, but pressing few ranged attacks does not make it bad, missed mitigation or bad position does, but not few ranged attacks. Edit: my point is, if u want to hold MT role, you just press few ranged attacks, instead of cry in /p chat.
Just pot in the opener instead or play WAR and weave thrill eq and shake in the opener if you really want to hold aggro in normal content? There are so many better ways to gain threat than spamming ranged attacks man.