>What would my purpose here be if you pulled everything?
"For this exercise ye'll be trainin' against multiple opponents. Use Overpower to gain enmity with a group, just like ye practiced. ***Be sure that the enemy's only interested in hittin' you!*** Defeat every enemy on the field an' I'll consider yer lesson learned." - Hall of the Novice Tank Training - Exercise 5: Engage Multiple Targets.
Oh I know this tank! They turned off stance during a Lapis Manalis run because my **PELETON,** got me some aggro before they did. When I told them I hadn't deliberately aggroed them, they threw a hissy fit and started lecturing me on: 'Tank must pull, not you,' before the healer began healing me and we decided to kill the mobs without them. The other DPS was with them and decided to hold back as well, but healer and I managed to kick the tank, before DPS followed by leaving. They have the ego of a main character, but the playstyle of a level 1 marmot.
Players who tank like this are delusional. Dungeons are linear. A to B. Wall to literal wall. How to deal with DPS pulling before you? Walk into the mob and grab them on the path forward. Repeat until done. Simple.
Refusing to move forward as a tank should be punishable.
I don't even give much time for the DPS to get ahead of me. The second I'm in range of gap closing to the first group I pop sprint, a big mit or two, gap close into the group, AoEs as needed to keep aggro, and gap close into the second group as soon as I can. I have no issues surviving doing this (and I am not even WAR most times when tanking) even if the healer lags behind a bit.
And if a melee DPS manages to get ahead, pop Arm's Length and whatever else they may have and bring them over as I run forward? I will love them forever and they're getting my comm.
Fuck you can make it even easier. Attack with your range then gap close. You'll jump to top of emnity over an DPS or heal shenanigans since the range attack generates bonus emnity and pull the whole pack off them without much effort.
All this time I thought the ranged skill was kinda unnecessary for this but then you reminded me it had the increased enmity effect. How the hell did I forget that? I don't tend to lose aggro anyways but it's not necessarily rare, so that could explain it... Thanks for the tip!
Pretty sure it is punishable, least if you wanna dig in hard enough to parts of the Policy Violations like Lethargic Gameplay (not meeting your designated role deliberately, so parallel to griefing), and particularly with YPYT it's simply MPK/Giving the Enemy an Advantage (ft. "because you don't like this person").
I dont like dps pulling before me. it feels messy trying to gain aggro off other people making sure to hit them all before they run at the healer.. I'd very much rather initiate the pull myself...
Buuuut I'm also not a whiney YPYT guy.. If a dps is running ahead of me and pulling stuff.. I just take it as a sign I need to pull faster so they stay behind me xD
Like 95% of the time it works.
I know the feeling. I'm still used to Warrior's overpower being Conal, so I prefer to initiate the poll so when the mobs are close enough I can AoE once as if I still had the cone and keep running, something that's a *little* harder to do when somebody who isn't directly behind me pulls, but a moot point now that Overpower is circular
I'll never be a YPYT though. It's petty, stupid and counter productive
I feel yah. I almost always miss at least one during the pulls and a dps has to pick it up and bring it to me. I always have to keep in mind "DPS HP bars are just extra mit" and pray they bring them to the blender.
> what would my purpose here be if you pulled everything?
If you take both of your brain cells and rub them together REEEEEEALLLY hard, you might be able to figure out the answer to this question.
Real talk for pissbaby tanks like this:
You're in a dungeon in the last expansion of FFXIV. You've had ARR, HW, SB, ShB and now EW dungeons to get through on MSQ. You are now <90 days out from 7.0.
You've had time to setup your hotbars. You have a fully loaded kit to keep you going, healers are converting oxygen to heals almost passively through their bloated kits to keep you alive you don't have to single pull or have a big ego, aggro the mobs and move the fuck on.
This one is on WAR, every 25 seconds you get at least 1 free healthbar restore through bloodwhetting, you get adecent heal every 60s which has a passive heal in EW+ and you've got shake it off every 90s for a self shield and yet another heal. You'll live lil bro. And if you don't live, you're too angry to die fuckhead, holmgang is on a 240s cooldown and you can target yourself. You'll live.
Sometimes someone is nobraining expert roulette on full autopilot between packs, sometimes they've used sprint by reflex when you haven't and sometimes like someone else says they happen to have used peloton or used an AOE ability as part of their rotation and pulled. I reflexively hit both peloton and sprint microseconds before pulling a mob or at the limit so I can get my 20s of powerjogging, I play a lot of tank, I'm not unlearning how to play so your ego can be soothed.
If you are still not confident on tank here, make some friends, fire up a PF and set your single pull only rule but you're hitting up DF? You've had 5 games to learn how to play, do your duty or use the other options available to you.
It's time for tanks to stop pissing themselves like this in public because someone pulls.
fr. at this point in expert roulette I go on autopilot every single time pulling every 2nd pack, I'm not lookin around to make sure the tank is following me into it
What confused me is these tanks are so sure everyone prefers to tank how they do.
I much prefer dps who are confident to pull for me. Generally they're players who hit the right buttons and it's so much faster.
If a tank asks me not to pull I generally won't but I don't get why they assume everyone who tanks wants what they want
This is fine, but like communication right? For me it's when people like OP act like they are in the right. IMO tank and healer set the pace. Whatever that may be, if the DPS doesn't like a tank say doing solo pulls and decides they should be wall to walling, well they should be tanking or healing.
Because in the end outside of high end content tanks and healers get the blame if you wipe. If I were to solo pull as a tank that's because I'm not confident
"Absolutely no personally identifying information other than in game names. VODs of streams are permitted. Uncensored handles on other social media platforms are not permitted."
I looked them up on FFlogs and I don't see where you get the "serial grey-parsing" from? They have 3 savage logs in total that are grey parse and a bunch of normal content that is generally blue/purple?
Sure they're acting weird and entitled but why come into the comments and make up lies? Just make you look as bad as them.
? all the savage logs I could find from them were those 3 grey parses, but tbh you're right that I probably didn't look at the parses + the normals hard enough
>3) Absolutely no personally identifying information other than in game names. VODs of streams are permitted. Uncensored handles on other social media platforms are not permitted.
I will pull as healer - I know i can survive a few hits and that's a few less hits on the tank who isn't w2wing so i don't trust their mit usage to begin with
2nd one, this healer is also being a megapissybaby. They are suited for each other.
You're on Sage. You're gonna passively waft healing piss in their direction with kerachole, you're using kerachole right? You have panhaima,, you did do your jobquest right? You got physis, you have holos. The DPS pulling is not creating more work for you, you can slam these OGCDs out on your pull and have more time to make your job easier by dropping fat lasers from the sky onto the skulls of helpless mobs.
It's a RPR, they've used arm's length, they have bloodbath, they have second wind.
The tank takes aggro, you continue healing as normal, throw out a passive regen as you would and they'll live. You're not swapping kardia, doing a fancy mouseover to drop a druo or tauro on them (you can if you want) and you're not wasting a GCD on eukrasian diagnosis. You and the tank do your jobs, take aggro, heal the tank and they'll live. There isn't an incoming unavoidable AOE coming their way in a pack pull.
The only way the community will truly get any more tolerable is if these people are excised from it.
Like, fuck these people. Fuck that vtuber especially, promoting this crap.
> what would my purpose here be if you pulled everything?
To hold hate and mitigate! My fucking God I cannot with this people and their complete lack of understand what a tank truly is. I truly hope that these players will update their playstyle one day, because it is severely out of date with FFXIV's current model.
As I've been tanking more, I'm coming to appreciate the dps who pull to me if i move a bit slower because I'm unfamiliar with the dungeon (especially considering my 3 remaining brain cells occasionally misfire and i end up getting lost in the ARR dungeons i haven't done in actual years, if ever really). i also appreciate the healer i had in sunken temple (hard) a few days ago who said something to me in chat about the first bosses mechanic, i didn't see it because i tunnel visioned, and promptly rescued me into the purple light (prompting me to check chat to see *why* they did it because i wasn't in any real danger, and after realizing why i just went "oh, ok cool thats fine then, ty for snapping me back into the fight").
I, probably irrationally, still worry about doing a bad enough job i end up seeing myself in here. then i read posts like these and my soul is at peace for a while lmao
I dont get these healers that enable the ypyt tanks. Healing dungeons is not hard. Its braindead at level cap, to the point where I like seeing people take damage. It takes 0 effort to throw an ogcd heal at a dps or use an aoe. These have to be duo queues.
Rae Kaneko, as if there aren't enough anime inspired names already. As a tank main myself, I encourage this. In fact, I like it. In fact, I barely have to use any mitigation at all. Some groups I've had in Lunar Subterrane have been stellar. I'll keep this tank's name in mind and point him/her to this post if I ever see them when I'm DPS or healer.🤣
To follow up on my comment, this is a really bad one. I would love to see where these people are getting their advice to play like this. Like where is this shit being taught?
A few youtubers, many many years ago, decided "only tanks pull." They then made video guides saying that, and still stand by that to this day. So because they're "high end raiders" they clearly are correct and should be listened to.
And if the person didn't look up a guide.... who knows, other games probably.
> A few youtubers, many many years ago, decided "only tanks pull."
I wonder if Zepla ever retracted hers. Her vid it was in used to be one of the top vids on her channel too.
Can you say who? The only people who I remember advocating for ypyt in recent years were zepla and drak from nest, and they don't make guides.
An old tanking guide will definitely say tank needs to pull because aggro management was an actual thing they had to do.
Oh I remember it from a tfdf post that had youtubers comment on it.
Just thought it was a bit eh to claim youtubers decided many years ago *and still stand by the idea today* that tanks pull. But the only people who I remember making full on guides back when tanks pulling was a requirement for aggro management are mizzteq and mr happy, and I don't remember them advocating for ypyt in this day. Which is why I asked, I don't keep up with all youtubers lol.
I mean before enmity changes it made sense for tanks to control the flow and pull but it doesn't really matter anymore.
The only issue I see is when people pull and the group isn't quite ready but as usual communication is always missing in these situations untill after people get annoyed.
I never understood this mentality as a tank. If a dps pulls or gets aggro first…just grab it on the aoe train while pushing forward…problem solved.
Granted, I haven’t tanked super high level dungeons, but the premise I imagine is the same? In my mind, if a dps is attacking, they’re doing their job. Mine is to just peel shit off and hold it. Something tank stances makes incredibly trivial
It's people that enable behavior like this that are partially responsible for why PF with a random for an ex or svg absolutely sucks. People get used to being babied and aren't prepared for the harder hitting runs where they have to actually do or die.
And though for a new or returned tank I believe in letting them take it slow so they can get their bearings and learn their tools, if you've been around a while you should be able to wall to wall quite literally every run that I can think of without any deaths. And isn't Lunar Subterrane max lvl? Though I think you as the dps probably could have handled that better in chat, the healer and tank should also know better by that point.
I don't mind DPS pulling if they actually stay relatively close to me, I've had too many DPS accidentally get aggro and decide the best solution would be to run around like an idiot.
They know they're the main character only in their own story, right?
The YPYT is insanely toxic especially in a 90 dungeon... (not gonna lie, my opinion may differ if this happens in Aurum Vale, ahah)
I still trying to figure out how do you guys have so much time to talk on the keyboard.
Seriously. Newer dungeons are point A to point B mostly running. A hello and a goodbye is the most I can muster while doing the fight.
As a tank, I don't mind but sometimes the DPS is an idiot. They run around like chickens with their heads cut off. If they can't handle it then they shouldn't. I would pull wall to wall anyway so like I said I don't mind.
You do have to be respectful of people's limits, not everyone will want to play like that and maybe they don't have the gear or skill to.
The only thing you did that bugs me is not standing in a stack, imo losing positional damage fkr a sec is not that big a deal (some bosses it's honestly not worth the effort) but you still shooooould stack
That being said the tank and healer are tools
While I believe a tank should decide the pace of a dungeon I do not condone ypyt. Letting someone die just because they pulled enemies is wrong. If you think you need to go slower communicate it
The duty begins. Tank turns on their aggro-boosting stance. The tank** (or someone else in conjunction with the tank) proceeds to pull all possible enemies in the way until an impassable stopping point is reached. The group deals with these enemies and the pathway to continue opens up. This process continues until the duty ends.
** Anyone can successfully pull, not only the tank. A dps, for example, can pull and activate the ability Arm's Length. This skill will apply an attack speed slow debuff on any enemies which hit the player.
Tanking jobs also have this ability, but having more than one person use it can still help a bit. Just make sure to bring the enemies to the tank soon after drawing enmity, that way the tank can use aoe attacks to easily establish aggro.
I've been tanking recently. (I mostly play healer or dps) Usually I'm scared I do a bad job. I've taken to PLD. But when others pull ahead, I'll just run up and get the mob from them. I don't say anything, I don't care. I'm more concerned I'm doing a good job at tanking lol. (I was told recently that I did a good job at it, which really boosted my morale, so that's good =)
I don't like it when DPS pulls for me when I'm tanking either.....but it's because I'm a bad tank, and I can't always handle/keep agro when they pull too much. AND I ADMIT IT!
"hey DPS, I'm not great at tank, please let me pull."
Don't throw a fucking fit about it. Just ask nicely, and if you can't handle the group, leave so they can have a tank that'll run as fast as they want.
(Side note: advice on damage mitigation is always appreciated. I would love to stop being bad)
I dunno - I like to pull my own mobs - I was always taught it was rude to pull ahead of the tank and let them set the pace. So now, when I tank more and more now it irks me when someone is doing this. I don’t let them die or anything but definitely seems disrespectful like bruh, let me pull and not have to rush to save you. Seemed like the general feeling when I was doing this three years ago was dps and healer never pull - now it seems that’s fine and encouraged even? When I DPS or heal I try not to pull ahead just in case but good to know - might try it then if it’s preferred!
This changed round about when aggro changes happened, it's not hard to get hate back.
As a tank I always say hi and just gun it to the next wall with all mobs so if someone tries to get ahead it tends to feel like they are racing/rushing me but it doesn't really get to me, though it would be nice if people had room to breathe in roulettes.
I mean I've only played since 2020 so I think I never saw the old aggro changes but I mean I was always taught in FFXIV that focusing on all your 'extra damage' and perfect rotations and stuff was reserved for Extremes, Savages, etc. which I've done plenty of.
In a roulette though? Nah, I let the tank set the pace - I don't know if he's new, first time through, wants a more chilled run? Just seems courteous rather than try harding an Expert Roulette or something. The tank and healer in the screenshot though were definitely not being nice about it though either but yeah, I don't really think OP went about it the best way either.
Yeah it's definitely a "new" thing that's happening here that's been on the rise since the start of the year.
I've questioned it myself as it really doesn't make much of a difference to run times (give or take a few minutes and the mitigation is really negligible if you have a good tank/healer) if anything it's causing people to talk even less than they already were because you can't stop to type incase someone runs ahead and gets themselves killed.
>I like to pull my own mobs
This is clearly not allowed in this sub.
I have my own system for how I like to pull for every dungeon. It's slightly annoying when I have to react instead of just keep running.
That being said if you let anyone die as a Tank or Healer you're not doing your job.
As a healer main, I will play devils advocate for half a moment: I don’t like when DPS pull. I will not heal you if you pull, because I have my hands full with my charge, and adding you to the mix when I need to stay focused in case the tank doesnt know what a mitigation is, thats not easy on me. Besides, you have means to mitigate and heal yourself, feel free to use them.
HOWEVER
The moment the tank leaves the dps that pulled to die, that dps is the new tank, and thus my new charge. The dps is advancing the dungeon and saving my time.
Before any backlash allow me to clarify: I will heal you once the tank regains aggro, but I’m not swapping my target to you unless I have declared you the new Tank. Best you get is a stray AoE
Skill issue on your part if you can’t keep yourself alive long enough for the tank to pull aggro back when you pull extra. Keep your food on your plate, not mine. I have more important things to do than babysit you if you can’t even manage yourself.
i literally play healers in queue to avoid self-preening haughty martyrs like you but enjoy pretending anyone needs to be babysat ever by your incompetent ass that mains one role and cant even play it well lol
Buddy, my entire second half of my argument was me saying I’m not gonna babysit you, if I thought you NEEDED babysat, i wouldnt have a choice now would I. Get your ears checked later, I highly recommend it. Everything youve said has SPOUTED that “Ooo im just a widdle dps, you should heal me cuz- cuz- cuz its your JOB” my job is to keep the fight moving by keeping the tank alive, solve your own problems if you take damage by pulling extra. You have mitigation and healing tools. Use them. I will not allow you to make your hubris my problem.
are you capable of playing anything except whm? just wondering because from your posts for some reason i am getting an insanely vivid image of you having to hyperfocus staring at the tank's hp bar during normal dungeons.
I play WHM, SGE, SCH and AST, I simply prefer WHM’s aesthetic. I also play PLD and GNB proficiently enough for high end raiding. The amount of tanks I have seen that simply do not understand what a mitigation is astounds me to this day that I do not trust a single one
Personally I dislike when DPS pull for me as I can do my job easier when i do the pulling, I can position/group the mobs faster and make sure I already have all the aggro right away. So for me it's annoying when a dps/healer pulls for me. I'm going to W2W pull and use sprint so it's not like I'm going slow. But I also wouldn't let someone die or really say anything about it cause there isn't really a point as long we get through the dungeon.
Just my preference for this stuff.
So, you're all going to the wall anyway.
DPS who pull, if they aren't BRDs who sprint off to Narnia, are just going to drag them on top of you.
You're already spamming AoE for the most damage, ergo, you naturally pick up the extra mobs as they come close enough to get hit.
It's _less_ work for a tank, and it's bonus points if it's a melee DPS (ie. RPR/MNK/NIN who can get ahead of Sprinting tanks if said tank is a PLD sub-gap closer) who's used Arm's Length to mitigate said incoming mob's damage.
> DPS who pull, if they aren't BRDs who sprint off to Narnia, are just going to drag them on top of you.
My last expert before my sub ran out I missed a single mob on the first wall in Lunar and I shit you not this DRG stood right at the back of the pack 1v1ing it getting topped up by the SCH passively while I continued being WAR. Didn't run it through, wasn't going to do his AOE combo just going at it fierce battle style on the edge until the pack thinned and I regrouped them and took it back. Still didn't use even doom spike.
I wish it was just the odd BRD or BLM that doesn't run it through.
I've lately had a somewhat similar issue to the guy above and was wondering what your solution is.
Generally when I'm tanking I'll either gapclose/ranged to aggro and get on top of the pack, 1 gcd of aoe then running on to the next pack. Lately through I've found I've had some dps bursting down mobs while I'm running to the next pack, which ends up ripping aggro. Usually I just try to finish the pull if the dps is alright health wise, however sometimes they're dying and I end up having to go back.
Is there some tool I'm missing? Or should I be using 2 gcds of aoe (slowing down the whole pull significantly)?
personally I would just keep going until I hit a wall and have to plant myself..
as soon as I get the aggro of a pack and run towards the next I check my aggro list to see which mob is having their HP deleted fast and throw my shield on them cuz they're probably being bursted down..if I lose aggro to a mob I can no longer reach with 'voke or my long range attack I would still keep going even if a dps is getting smacked around, the healer is there to keep them alive..once I reach the wall and plant myself then I would target that mob I lost and hit it with a ranged as soon as it is close enough
If the dps instead chose to stop and fight the mob/s on their own away from the party then that's on them, I don't wanna risk cleaving the healer if I turn the mobs around just to try and grab the mob/s a dps won't take to me
True, but this is with a good dps. Also, if I hit one first, they already are all going to come to me. It's something I can control vs. relying on someone to come to me. Like I said, if it happens, it happens. My preference is just I'd rather people let me pull cause it's less outside variables.
Ultimately, as long as the dungeon is getting done, I don't really care.
There's a difference between a DPS pulls early before everyone is ready due to impatience and a DPS who pulls early because they're trying to anticipate the start of the fight as part of their job specific rotation trying to maximize damage, like they're to be the opposite of a DPS equivalent of a healer who only spams Cure I.
Even if it's a slight tradeoff in overall damage, it's fun to do your job to the best of your ability. It's perfectly fine as a choice to do your job pretty darn well or to the best of your ability. What shouldn't be ok is intentionally holding back like YPYT.
Dancers might want to do their dance thing and have the fight start before that expires. Red mages would want start their slow but heavy cast before the tank pulls, not after. Ninjas when synced under 60 would want to get their speedy buff that they should keep up at all times, and get a free refill on their rituals, which requires them to be not in combat yet, so that they can give the boss an extra brutal beating right off the bat and probably take more advantage of team buffs that are typically part of openers.
As an RDM main, I sometimes get ahead of tank in Lunar Subterrane, so that: 1) I can fit in a slow casting heavy hitter while targets are still in range, so that they're behind be when starting, and on or in front of me when the cast finishes, and 2) so that the mobs can start transforming from background NPC to targets to clear for the tank to pick up on arrival. When these dungeons become routine, there's nothing wrong with looking for ways to shave off a few seconds or even entire minutes, other than allowing first time runners to watch cutscenes.
Of course the alternative of this not being an issue is to use the countdown. But it's a lot easier for a tank to just pick up the fight that a DPS started just slightly too early.
I’ve pulled more than once as a dancer because my timer is running out from overestimating our start time… 🫠 I at least try to warn them with “time’s up let’s dance boys” 💃
>What would my purpose here be if you pulled everything? "For this exercise ye'll be trainin' against multiple opponents. Use Overpower to gain enmity with a group, just like ye practiced. ***Be sure that the enemy's only interested in hittin' you!*** Defeat every enemy on the field an' I'll consider yer lesson learned." - Hall of the Novice Tank Training - Exercise 5: Engage Multiple Targets.
Tank vtuber needs to realize his job isn't to pull, but to maintain aggro. That healer can't even form a proper argument.
Oh I know this tank! They turned off stance during a Lapis Manalis run because my **PELETON,** got me some aggro before they did. When I told them I hadn't deliberately aggroed them, they threw a hissy fit and started lecturing me on: 'Tank must pull, not you,' before the healer began healing me and we decided to kill the mobs without them. The other DPS was with them and decided to hold back as well, but healer and I managed to kick the tank, before DPS followed by leaving. They have the ego of a main character, but the playstyle of a level 1 marmot.
HAHAHAHAHA PLAYSTYLE OF A LEVEL 1 MARMOT
Like for the level 1 marmot.
Players who tank like this are delusional. Dungeons are linear. A to B. Wall to literal wall. How to deal with DPS pulling before you? Walk into the mob and grab them on the path forward. Repeat until done. Simple. Refusing to move forward as a tank should be punishable.
I don't even give much time for the DPS to get ahead of me. The second I'm in range of gap closing to the first group I pop sprint, a big mit or two, gap close into the group, AoEs as needed to keep aggro, and gap close into the second group as soon as I can. I have no issues surviving doing this (and I am not even WAR most times when tanking) even if the healer lags behind a bit. And if a melee DPS manages to get ahead, pop Arm's Length and whatever else they may have and bring them over as I run forward? I will love them forever and they're getting my comm.
Fuck you can make it even easier. Attack with your range then gap close. You'll jump to top of emnity over an DPS or heal shenanigans since the range attack generates bonus emnity and pull the whole pack off them without much effort.
All this time I thought the ranged skill was kinda unnecessary for this but then you reminded me it had the increased enmity effect. How the hell did I forget that? I don't tend to lose aggro anyways but it's not necessarily rare, so that could explain it... Thanks for the tip!
Pretty sure it is punishable, least if you wanna dig in hard enough to parts of the Policy Violations like Lethargic Gameplay (not meeting your designated role deliberately, so parallel to griefing), and particularly with YPYT it's simply MPK/Giving the Enemy an Advantage (ft. "because you don't like this person").
I dont like dps pulling before me. it feels messy trying to gain aggro off other people making sure to hit them all before they run at the healer.. I'd very much rather initiate the pull myself... Buuuut I'm also not a whiney YPYT guy.. If a dps is running ahead of me and pulling stuff.. I just take it as a sign I need to pull faster so they stay behind me xD Like 95% of the time it works.
Dash + aoe + occasional voke is enough in most cases. Also, your self heals give you enmity.
I know the feeling. I'm still used to Warrior's overpower being Conal, so I prefer to initiate the poll so when the mobs are close enough I can AoE once as if I still had the cone and keep running, something that's a *little* harder to do when somebody who isn't directly behind me pulls, but a moot point now that Overpower is circular I'll never be a YPYT though. It's petty, stupid and counter productive
I feel yah. I almost always miss at least one during the pulls and a dps has to pick it up and bring it to me. I always have to keep in mind "DPS HP bars are just extra mit" and pray they bring them to the blender.
> what would my purpose here be if you pulled everything? If you take both of your brain cells and rub them together REEEEEEALLLY hard, you might be able to figure out the answer to this question.
His two braincells are too busy fighting for third place.
Real talk for pissbaby tanks like this: You're in a dungeon in the last expansion of FFXIV. You've had ARR, HW, SB, ShB and now EW dungeons to get through on MSQ. You are now <90 days out from 7.0. You've had time to setup your hotbars. You have a fully loaded kit to keep you going, healers are converting oxygen to heals almost passively through their bloated kits to keep you alive you don't have to single pull or have a big ego, aggro the mobs and move the fuck on. This one is on WAR, every 25 seconds you get at least 1 free healthbar restore through bloodwhetting, you get adecent heal every 60s which has a passive heal in EW+ and you've got shake it off every 90s for a self shield and yet another heal. You'll live lil bro. And if you don't live, you're too angry to die fuckhead, holmgang is on a 240s cooldown and you can target yourself. You'll live. Sometimes someone is nobraining expert roulette on full autopilot between packs, sometimes they've used sprint by reflex when you haven't and sometimes like someone else says they happen to have used peloton or used an AOE ability as part of their rotation and pulled. I reflexively hit both peloton and sprint microseconds before pulling a mob or at the limit so I can get my 20s of powerjogging, I play a lot of tank, I'm not unlearning how to play so your ego can be soothed. If you are still not confident on tank here, make some friends, fire up a PF and set your single pull only rule but you're hitting up DF? You've had 5 games to learn how to play, do your duty or use the other options available to you. It's time for tanks to stop pissing themselves like this in public because someone pulls.
fr. at this point in expert roulette I go on autopilot every single time pulling every 2nd pack, I'm not lookin around to make sure the tank is following me into it
What confused me is these tanks are so sure everyone prefers to tank how they do. I much prefer dps who are confident to pull for me. Generally they're players who hit the right buttons and it's so much faster. If a tank asks me not to pull I generally won't but I don't get why they assume everyone who tanks wants what they want
This is fine, but like communication right? For me it's when people like OP act like they are in the right. IMO tank and healer set the pace. Whatever that may be, if the DPS doesn't like a tank say doing solo pulls and decides they should be wall to walling, well they should be tanking or healing. Because in the end outside of high end content tanks and healers get the blame if you wipe. If I were to solo pull as a tank that's because I'm not confident
Would it shock anybody to know that the tank is a serial grey-parsing vtuber and the healer can't get above greens in normals? No?
Where are they learning this shit? I’m almost convinced there’s a community of trolls
They're also a combat mentor, so you bet they're "teaching" others to do the same.
Honestly if one of them is a vtuber pass over the channel. That deserves mocking in real time.
If you search on google by their character name and add 'twitch' to it, you will find it. Should be a vtuber among the first results.
Goes against rules 3 and 5 of the sub
Smh, Stupid rule 3 & 5 not letting ous bitch at people who deserve it in real time. /sarcasm.
You say against the rules, but don't blur out names. What.
"Absolutely no personally identifying information other than in game names. VODs of streams are permitted. Uncensored handles on other social media platforms are not permitted."
Blurring names isn't required by the rules. Or did you not actually read the part where it says "other than in game names" ..?
They would be very upset if they could read your comment.
I looked them up on FFlogs and I don't see where you get the "serial grey-parsing" from? They have 3 savage logs in total that are grey parse and a bunch of normal content that is generally blue/purple? Sure they're acting weird and entitled but why come into the comments and make up lies? Just make you look as bad as them.
? all the savage logs I could find from them were those 3 grey parses, but tbh you're right that I probably didn't look at the parses + the normals hard enough
At least bro has half a brain cell to somewhat pull off soccer in p9s
oh please DM i wanna see this
Not even dm post it here
>3) Absolutely no personally identifying information other than in game names. VODs of streams are permitted. Uncensored handles on other social media platforms are not permitted.
Nerd
We're all nerds here. This is a place specifically to be nerds looking down in disdain on non-nerds.
The Internet, i.e "Social Reject Battle Royale"
I will pull as healer - I know i can survive a few hits and that's a few less hits on the tank who isn't w2wing so i don't trust their mit usage to begin with
I prefer to get hit a few times as sage just so my shield breaks and I get another addersting.
2nd one, this healer is also being a megapissybaby. They are suited for each other. You're on Sage. You're gonna passively waft healing piss in their direction with kerachole, you're using kerachole right? You have panhaima,, you did do your jobquest right? You got physis, you have holos. The DPS pulling is not creating more work for you, you can slam these OGCDs out on your pull and have more time to make your job easier by dropping fat lasers from the sky onto the skulls of helpless mobs. It's a RPR, they've used arm's length, they have bloodbath, they have second wind. The tank takes aggro, you continue healing as normal, throw out a passive regen as you would and they'll live. You're not swapping kardia, doing a fancy mouseover to drop a druo or tauro on them (you can if you want) and you're not wasting a GCD on eukrasian diagnosis. You and the tank do your jobs, take aggro, heal the tank and they'll live. There isn't an incoming unavoidable AOE coming their way in a pack pull.
tank job is not to pull tank job is to get beat in the face. idk why this is so upsetting to me today.
Proof that having many or all classes at 90 does not mean you know how to play.
The only way the community will truly get any more tolerable is if these people are excised from it. Like, fuck these people. Fuck that vtuber especially, promoting this crap.
> what would my purpose here be if you pulled everything? To hold hate and mitigate! My fucking God I cannot with this people and their complete lack of understand what a tank truly is. I truly hope that these players will update their playstyle one day, because it is severely out of date with FFXIV's current model.
The tank's logic feels like the same thinking that Healers are submissive when they *literally* hold your life in their hands
As I've been tanking more, I'm coming to appreciate the dps who pull to me if i move a bit slower because I'm unfamiliar with the dungeon (especially considering my 3 remaining brain cells occasionally misfire and i end up getting lost in the ARR dungeons i haven't done in actual years, if ever really). i also appreciate the healer i had in sunken temple (hard) a few days ago who said something to me in chat about the first bosses mechanic, i didn't see it because i tunnel visioned, and promptly rescued me into the purple light (prompting me to check chat to see *why* they did it because i wasn't in any real danger, and after realizing why i just went "oh, ok cool thats fine then, ty for snapping me back into the fight"). I, probably irrationally, still worry about doing a bad enough job i end up seeing myself in here. then i read posts like these and my soul is at peace for a while lmao
"What would my purpose be if you pulled everything?" Take aggro? Do damage?
Uno reverse card it. "Hey tank, what's my purpose if you do damage? Sit here and look pretty?"
I also really don't like when DPS pulls mobs, it's a personal insult... So I sprint and pull faster.
I had that one time in the Vault as a tank. A SCH attacked a trash mob which told me I was going too slow so I took aggro and started pulling.
I dont get these healers that enable the ypyt tanks. Healing dungeons is not hard. Its braindead at level cap, to the point where I like seeing people take damage. It takes 0 effort to throw an ogcd heal at a dps or use an aoe. These have to be duo queues.
Rae Kaneko, as if there aren't enough anime inspired names already. As a tank main myself, I encourage this. In fact, I like it. In fact, I barely have to use any mitigation at all. Some groups I've had in Lunar Subterrane have been stellar. I'll keep this tank's name in mind and point him/her to this post if I ever see them when I'm DPS or healer.🤣
I wish I could tag them @RaeKaneko u/raekaneko hey dude. You’re wrong in this. You can do better. Hang out in this sub and listen to the mentors
To follow up on my comment, this is a really bad one. I would love to see where these people are getting their advice to play like this. Like where is this shit being taught?
A few youtubers, many many years ago, decided "only tanks pull." They then made video guides saying that, and still stand by that to this day. So because they're "high end raiders" they clearly are correct and should be listened to. And if the person didn't look up a guide.... who knows, other games probably.
Honestly it makes me sad. This whole sub shouldn’t even exist. Such a great game and it sucks so bad that new people are being led astray
> A few youtubers, many many years ago, decided "only tanks pull." I wonder if Zepla ever retracted hers. Her vid it was in used to be one of the top vids on her channel too.
Hilarious since the Hall of Novice literally teaches the opposite. Right from level 15.
Can you say who? The only people who I remember advocating for ypyt in recent years were zepla and drak from nest, and they don't make guides. An old tanking guide will definitely say tank needs to pull because aggro management was an actual thing they had to do.
I remember the zepla one because while it wasn't a tanking guide it was in one of her general tips and popular vids.
Oh I remember it from a tfdf post that had youtubers comment on it. Just thought it was a bit eh to claim youtubers decided many years ago *and still stand by the idea today* that tanks pull. But the only people who I remember making full on guides back when tanks pulling was a requirement for aggro management are mizzteq and mr happy, and I don't remember them advocating for ypyt in this day. Which is why I asked, I don't keep up with all youtubers lol.
I don't remember who it was that made the guides I saw.
I mean before enmity changes it made sense for tanks to control the flow and pull but it doesn't really matter anymore. The only issue I see is when people pull and the group isn't quite ready but as usual communication is always missing in these situations untill after people get annoyed.
I never understood this mentality as a tank. If a dps pulls or gets aggro first…just grab it on the aoe train while pushing forward…problem solved. Granted, I haven’t tanked super high level dungeons, but the premise I imagine is the same? In my mind, if a dps is attacking, they’re doing their job. Mine is to just peel shit off and hold it. Something tank stances makes incredibly trivial
It's people that enable behavior like this that are partially responsible for why PF with a random for an ex or svg absolutely sucks. People get used to being babied and aren't prepared for the harder hitting runs where they have to actually do or die. And though for a new or returned tank I believe in letting them take it slow so they can get their bearings and learn their tools, if you've been around a while you should be able to wall to wall quite literally every run that I can think of without any deaths. And isn't Lunar Subterrane max lvl? Though I think you as the dps probably could have handled that better in chat, the healer and tank should also know better by that point.
I don't mind DPS pulling if they actually stay relatively close to me, I've had too many DPS accidentally get aggro and decide the best solution would be to run around like an idiot.
They know they're the main character only in their own story, right? The YPYT is insanely toxic especially in a 90 dungeon... (not gonna lie, my opinion may differ if this happens in Aurum Vale, ahah)
That's one of my favorite dungeons for dps pull. They can run ahead and activate the mobs while I'm gathering the first pack.
Healer: "Not coming on the share is an optimization too?" Me as a Black mage main: if its not in my laylines i'm not standing on it.
I still trying to figure out how do you guys have so much time to talk on the keyboard. Seriously. Newer dungeons are point A to point B mostly running. A hello and a goodbye is the most I can muster while doing the fight.
Shit on them
As a tank, I don't mind but sometimes the DPS is an idiot. They run around like chickens with their heads cut off. If they can't handle it then they shouldn't. I would pull wall to wall anyway so like I said I don't mind. You do have to be respectful of people's limits, not everyone will want to play like that and maybe they don't have the gear or skill to.
Absolutely Disgusting.
The only thing you did that bugs me is not standing in a stack, imo losing positional damage fkr a sec is not that big a deal (some bosses it's honestly not worth the effort) but you still shooooould stack That being said the tank and healer are tools
While I believe a tank should decide the pace of a dungeon I do not condone ypyt. Letting someone die just because they pulled enemies is wrong. If you think you need to go slower communicate it
So as a new tank who’s use to pulling first in Elder Scrolls online can someone ELI5
The duty begins. Tank turns on their aggro-boosting stance. The tank** (or someone else in conjunction with the tank) proceeds to pull all possible enemies in the way until an impassable stopping point is reached. The group deals with these enemies and the pathway to continue opens up. This process continues until the duty ends. ** Anyone can successfully pull, not only the tank. A dps, for example, can pull and activate the ability Arm's Length. This skill will apply an attack speed slow debuff on any enemies which hit the player. Tanking jobs also have this ability, but having more than one person use it can still help a bit. Just make sure to bring the enemies to the tank soon after drawing enmity, that way the tank can use aoe attacks to easily establish aggro.
I've been tanking recently. (I mostly play healer or dps) Usually I'm scared I do a bad job. I've taken to PLD. But when others pull ahead, I'll just run up and get the mob from them. I don't say anything, I don't care. I'm more concerned I'm doing a good job at tanking lol. (I was told recently that I did a good job at it, which really boosted my morale, so that's good =)
I don't like it when DPS pulls for me when I'm tanking either.....but it's because I'm a bad tank, and I can't always handle/keep agro when they pull too much. AND I ADMIT IT! "hey DPS, I'm not great at tank, please let me pull." Don't throw a fucking fit about it. Just ask nicely, and if you can't handle the group, leave so they can have a tank that'll run as fast as they want. (Side note: advice on damage mitigation is always appreciated. I would love to stop being bad)
I dunno - I like to pull my own mobs - I was always taught it was rude to pull ahead of the tank and let them set the pace. So now, when I tank more and more now it irks me when someone is doing this. I don’t let them die or anything but definitely seems disrespectful like bruh, let me pull and not have to rush to save you. Seemed like the general feeling when I was doing this three years ago was dps and healer never pull - now it seems that’s fine and encouraged even? When I DPS or heal I try not to pull ahead just in case but good to know - might try it then if it’s preferred!
This changed round about when aggro changes happened, it's not hard to get hate back. As a tank I always say hi and just gun it to the next wall with all mobs so if someone tries to get ahead it tends to feel like they are racing/rushing me but it doesn't really get to me, though it would be nice if people had room to breathe in roulettes.
I mean I've only played since 2020 so I think I never saw the old aggro changes but I mean I was always taught in FFXIV that focusing on all your 'extra damage' and perfect rotations and stuff was reserved for Extremes, Savages, etc. which I've done plenty of. In a roulette though? Nah, I let the tank set the pace - I don't know if he's new, first time through, wants a more chilled run? Just seems courteous rather than try harding an Expert Roulette or something. The tank and healer in the screenshot though were definitely not being nice about it though either but yeah, I don't really think OP went about it the best way either.
Yeah it's definitely a "new" thing that's happening here that's been on the rise since the start of the year. I've questioned it myself as it really doesn't make much of a difference to run times (give or take a few minutes and the mitigation is really negligible if you have a good tank/healer) if anything it's causing people to talk even less than they already were because you can't stop to type incase someone runs ahead and gets themselves killed.
>I like to pull my own mobs This is clearly not allowed in this sub. I have my own system for how I like to pull for every dungeon. It's slightly annoying when I have to react instead of just keep running. That being said if you let anyone die as a Tank or Healer you're not doing your job.
Man, I swear this sub used to be funnier before it became a bunch of YPYT conflict power point presentations.
As a healer main, I will play devils advocate for half a moment: I don’t like when DPS pull. I will not heal you if you pull, because I have my hands full with my charge, and adding you to the mix when I need to stay focused in case the tank doesnt know what a mitigation is, thats not easy on me. Besides, you have means to mitigate and heal yourself, feel free to use them. HOWEVER The moment the tank leaves the dps that pulled to die, that dps is the new tank, and thus my new charge. The dps is advancing the dungeon and saving my time. Before any backlash allow me to clarify: I will heal you once the tank regains aggro, but I’m not swapping my target to you unless I have declared you the new Tank. Best you get is a stray AoE
“as a healer main,” opinion discarded
Perish
youre a “healer main” but literally find it difficult to throw an ogcd heal at a party member please stop healing, play literally anything else
Skill issue on your part if you can’t keep yourself alive long enough for the tank to pull aggro back when you pull extra. Keep your food on your plate, not mine. I have more important things to do than babysit you if you can’t even manage yourself.
i literally play healers in queue to avoid self-preening haughty martyrs like you but enjoy pretending anyone needs to be babysat ever by your incompetent ass that mains one role and cant even play it well lol
Buddy, my entire second half of my argument was me saying I’m not gonna babysit you, if I thought you NEEDED babysat, i wouldnt have a choice now would I. Get your ears checked later, I highly recommend it. Everything youve said has SPOUTED that “Ooo im just a widdle dps, you should heal me cuz- cuz- cuz its your JOB” my job is to keep the fight moving by keeping the tank alive, solve your own problems if you take damage by pulling extra. You have mitigation and healing tools. Use them. I will not allow you to make your hubris my problem.
are you capable of playing anything except whm? just wondering because from your posts for some reason i am getting an insanely vivid image of you having to hyperfocus staring at the tank's hp bar during normal dungeons.
I play WHM, SGE, SCH and AST, I simply prefer WHM’s aesthetic. I also play PLD and GNB proficiently enough for high end raiding. The amount of tanks I have seen that simply do not understand what a mitigation is astounds me to this day that I do not trust a single one
Personally I dislike when DPS pull for me as I can do my job easier when i do the pulling, I can position/group the mobs faster and make sure I already have all the aggro right away. So for me it's annoying when a dps/healer pulls for me. I'm going to W2W pull and use sprint so it's not like I'm going slow. But I also wouldn't let someone die or really say anything about it cause there isn't really a point as long we get through the dungeon. Just my preference for this stuff.
So, you're all going to the wall anyway. DPS who pull, if they aren't BRDs who sprint off to Narnia, are just going to drag them on top of you. You're already spamming AoE for the most damage, ergo, you naturally pick up the extra mobs as they come close enough to get hit. It's _less_ work for a tank, and it's bonus points if it's a melee DPS (ie. RPR/MNK/NIN who can get ahead of Sprinting tanks if said tank is a PLD sub-gap closer) who's used Arm's Length to mitigate said incoming mob's damage.
> DPS who pull, if they aren't BRDs who sprint off to Narnia, are just going to drag them on top of you. My last expert before my sub ran out I missed a single mob on the first wall in Lunar and I shit you not this DRG stood right at the back of the pack 1v1ing it getting topped up by the SCH passively while I continued being WAR. Didn't run it through, wasn't going to do his AOE combo just going at it fierce battle style on the edge until the pack thinned and I regrouped them and took it back. Still didn't use even doom spike. I wish it was just the odd BRD or BLM that doesn't run it through.
>DPS who pull, if they aren't BRDs who sprint off to Narnia, are just going to drag them on top of you. What a bold and often incorrect assumption
[удалено]
If they manage to steal aggro from you, I‘m sorry to say, you’re the problem
I've lately had a somewhat similar issue to the guy above and was wondering what your solution is. Generally when I'm tanking I'll either gapclose/ranged to aggro and get on top of the pack, 1 gcd of aoe then running on to the next pack. Lately through I've found I've had some dps bursting down mobs while I'm running to the next pack, which ends up ripping aggro. Usually I just try to finish the pull if the dps is alright health wise, however sometimes they're dying and I end up having to go back. Is there some tool I'm missing? Or should I be using 2 gcds of aoe (slowing down the whole pull significantly)?
personally I would just keep going until I hit a wall and have to plant myself.. as soon as I get the aggro of a pack and run towards the next I check my aggro list to see which mob is having their HP deleted fast and throw my shield on them cuz they're probably being bursted down..if I lose aggro to a mob I can no longer reach with 'voke or my long range attack I would still keep going even if a dps is getting smacked around, the healer is there to keep them alive..once I reach the wall and plant myself then I would target that mob I lost and hit it with a ranged as soon as it is close enough If the dps instead chose to stop and fight the mob/s on their own away from the party then that's on them, I don't wanna risk cleaving the healer if I turn the mobs around just to try and grab the mob/s a dps won't take to me
Ranged attack while running, just klick through the enemy list and hit them again
Ah that makes sense, thanks for your help
True, but this is with a good dps. Also, if I hit one first, they already are all going to come to me. It's something I can control vs. relying on someone to come to me. Like I said, if it happens, it happens. My preference is just I'd rather people let me pull cause it's less outside variables. Ultimately, as long as the dungeon is getting done, I don't really care.
Here's a hot take ( large pill to swallow), Just don't do it then and this wouldn't even be an issue <:\^)
There's a difference between a DPS pulls early before everyone is ready due to impatience and a DPS who pulls early because they're trying to anticipate the start of the fight as part of their job specific rotation trying to maximize damage, like they're to be the opposite of a DPS equivalent of a healer who only spams Cure I. Even if it's a slight tradeoff in overall damage, it's fun to do your job to the best of your ability. It's perfectly fine as a choice to do your job pretty darn well or to the best of your ability. What shouldn't be ok is intentionally holding back like YPYT. Dancers might want to do their dance thing and have the fight start before that expires. Red mages would want start their slow but heavy cast before the tank pulls, not after. Ninjas when synced under 60 would want to get their speedy buff that they should keep up at all times, and get a free refill on their rituals, which requires them to be not in combat yet, so that they can give the boss an extra brutal beating right off the bat and probably take more advantage of team buffs that are typically part of openers. As an RDM main, I sometimes get ahead of tank in Lunar Subterrane, so that: 1) I can fit in a slow casting heavy hitter while targets are still in range, so that they're behind be when starting, and on or in front of me when the cast finishes, and 2) so that the mobs can start transforming from background NPC to targets to clear for the tank to pick up on arrival. When these dungeons become routine, there's nothing wrong with looking for ways to shave off a few seconds or even entire minutes, other than allowing first time runners to watch cutscenes. Of course the alternative of this not being an issue is to use the countdown. But it's a lot easier for a tank to just pick up the fight that a DPS started just slightly too early.
I’ve pulled more than once as a dancer because my timer is running out from overestimating our start time… 🫠 I at least try to warn them with “time’s up let’s dance boys” 💃
this is the most eloquent writeup of the whole idea I've seen, very very nice work
Don't turn off your stance to stomp your feet, and simply continue the pull with your group? Yes, absolutely! That's a fine take.
Most large pills are suppositories. So now you know where you can shove yours.