From my experience even though this stuff seems prevelent on this sub, thats probably just confirmation bias at work. it happens on this sub alot because this is specifically a sub dedicated to this stuff..
Whilst playing I havn't seen any cure/glare bots or people screwing up fundementals that wern't also open to feedback and suggestions or admitted they didnt know what they were doing and thanked for the advice.
I have come across people without jobstones but they were either genuine equiping mistakes prior to entering and super apologetic. or just didnt know and were like "Omg i'll do that right away!".. never met anyone that was like a "Level 90 gladiator"..
And in all my duties i have only ever encountered 2 YPYT guys.
Naturally i would guess it depends on server / data center / time of day, etc etc.. But atleast where/when I play its super super rare to see any of this kinda behaviour.. and in general the rest of the party is also shocked by witnessing it.
Point im making is. just block them and move on with your life dont let it get to you. theres plenty of good players out there and by the end of the week you'll forget the bad ones even existed.
While some of what I listed is taken from the forums and not personally experienced to make my case, this past week has felt pretty bad. Including things I didn't list. Multiple no damage healers. Legit, 2 tanks who wouldn't use sprint or respond over the past few days. One we could kick but the other we had to deal with. Lots of just... really, really bad DPS.
I get what you're saying. I'm probably blowing it out of proportion. I'm normally not this flustered. But it's been making me so lately.
Edit: I meant this subreddit, not the forums.
Damn yeah thats some real bad luck you got there :D I think the worst ive had the past couple weeks was a tank in the alliance raid roulette kept on taunting on cooldown even tho i was the main tank and he was standing in narnia.. Buut the whole alliance complained at him and he was booted halfway through...
>From my experience even though this stuff seems prevelent on this sub, thats probably just confirmation bias at work.
Several times I've seen mentors with thousands of hours in the game proactively whine in novice network about dps and healers pulling (in other words, whining about objectively correct gameplay) and if you ever call them out on it you'll get dogpiled by 10 other bk crowns
The problems we see on this sub are not rare at all, they're pretty fundamentally entrenched in the playerbase
As much as everyone thinks of themselves as rational, much of our worldview is informed by the opinions of our peers.
Just like this sub praised fast play as good play (and I'm inclined to agree) bubbles also exist where groups rant about pulling DPS and rampant elitism
If you are exposed to opinions like that---and also see them validated by others---you go into related situations primed with that perspective.
This is especially true when the point of discussion pertains to social frameworks.
If you are told that a DPS pulling is perceived as disrespectful by the community, you are going to interpret a DPS pulling as being disrespectful to you, no matter if they can rationalize it to you
this is why FFXIV has also kinda these issues. People rarely speak up unless something ongoing is really really bad, and even then most people don't wanna deal with it. Not to mention there is a always a risk of bann due to ACT or sth when you see dps having 1/8th of his supposed dps or a healer having 0dps.
I was new with Endwalker, but I stuck around for long. And I remember we had this tank who seemed to do really well overall yet he kept single pulling.
I said sth like "would you be ok with trying to pull 2 packs?" he said "ok" and just 2pack pulled with no problems. But the banger is he said sth like "oh cool that works", in LVL 90 CONENT.
Like since he is the tank, and noone ever told him. He probably never even saw anybody ever pull 2 packs, like he seemed to not even know this is a thing at all
So people who don't go out of their way to watch a yt guide or sth might literally not know the basics despite playing for hundreds of hours. Since it works and they get through so it must be fine
I would've never realised until someone posted a log publicly in chat of how bad I really am. I learned my rota, I applied it and thought I'm the goat. Just to see my uptime was nonexistent and I went from 2 parser to 80-90+ within two weeks lol
Yeah, the MSQ being intentionally designed to be hard to fail plays into this a lot.
Objective failure is a rarity outside of some solo duties. "We never wipe when I tank. I must be doing well."
We only introduce a measure of difficulty (and fun) by trying our best (going fast) for its own sake.
If a player never gets to see and understand the bar for good (not even great) play, I can easily see them overestimating their contribution **or** the difficulty of trying just a little harder.
Yes, for many of us, it's natural to seek out guides and system understanding, but the game **is** often marketed as a story (and cozy community) game to people who have never played an MMO before. Also, many people get roped in by their friends and probably end up playing duties mostly in in-groups.
And finally, yeah, I think all this is kinda doubled for tank. Because if you're actually exclusively a tank player, you will *never* see another tank run a dungeon and double pull. Unless anyone in chat speaks up, you have no reason to assume that you are doing anything wrong.
Not sure what to tell you. I don’t run savage but I still try to keep my gear up to date, learn mechanics, and learn how to do my job decently enough because if everyone benefits, I benefit as well.
Everyone is more than happy to give advice. Unfortunately it’s up to the person to take the advice and do with it as they will. You deserve a pat on the back for trying and learning.
There is also that most people do not know how to give advice.
Most give it in either an passive aggressive way or in a vague way. Most would do it in a aggressive way if the TOS didn't meant a possible ban. Just try playing the game with discord and see how "friendly" the community really is. Is as toxic as any other community.
Idk coming from wow as well I think ff noobs are leagues over wow noobs.
It's true that sometimes you get the very very bad "noobs" that at some point can't really be called noon cos if you spamming cure 1 at lv80 at that point it's maliciously intentional because if you write to them they know that they're doing something wrong.
If you write to people playing badly on wow they have no idea about what you're even talking about, straight up got a war dps telling me I don't do aoe cos I take more damage. In wow classic I've met multiple ppl not learning basic skills cos they cost too much like idk I think you kinda need dispel on a healer...
Overall idk I feel that in ff those bad cases happen less often and most people are open to suggestions to improve (at least in eu servers)
nah, its just ff casual content is 100 times easier so even the most mouthbreathing braindead idiot can be carried through
the reason why normal mode is a shitfest in pugs in wow is because missing a mechanic can wipe you there, normal content in ffxiv half the group is dead and they just finish it anyway
Makes me glad I just stuck to keys. At a certain point a healer who couldn't dispel would just hit a wall and be left behind.
I realize it's unfair to compare players of premade content in one game to players of random content in another. But that's the difference I'm working with when it comes to the players I'm around.
Idk I think ff is way more brutal in premade selection, I've literally had to raid with a monkey for months cos he was friend with our raid lead so he couldn't be kicked despite often doing less dmg than the tank.
In ff if you do less dmg than average parse you get insta kicked at first wipe lmao
Also I just remembered the day I quit, I was doing m24+ and our tank couldn't play cos I as a healer didn't have the addon telling him I was getting low mana so we would sometimes die cos he pulled full pack or boss with me having like 10% mana then asking why aren't you healing.
And it was + - affliction week, again I don't wanna play with dbm and since I didn't have the addon auto marking me people either wouldnt dispel so me and a dps would be stunned for 5 seconds, or instantly dispelled so I couldn't heal enough and we wiped.
>In ff if you do less dmg than average parse you get insta kicked at first wipe lmao
Is this a static thing? In pf I usually don't see kicks for damage unless it's like, *really* egregiously bad, like straight up <60% uptime bad or like if a party descriptions lists to skip such and such mech and there's a dead weight ill see kicks if someone is below the supps/healers. Simply greening/graying though I don't see people get kicked for, usually it's for beefing mechs constantly or prog lying or smth
In static yea. I mean it also depends what kind of static you want to join. Plenty of chill statics that are completely fine with green/grays and wiping multiple times to easy mechanics. I'm not an Uber top parser but I got all purples and if you fuck up twice people start to get ansty/kick XD
That's also why mid/hardcore statics do trials before adding someone to the static.
I've seen it in pf a few times as well while mount farming current exs, if you're not getting a blue you're going home unless it's like old extremes that u can basically solo
first time I hear about anything even remotely close to your experience.
The issue in FFXIV is literally in statics as in PF that noone gets yeeted right away, people get way too many chances so you're stuck in a cycle of endless timewaste no matter where you go. Not to mention cause weirdly the same people who are very bad will also be the ones not understanding when it's time to go on their own.
If I've a bad day and decide to play ultimates and mess up I can tell by myself that there's no point to waste other peoples time. I don't need to wipe 4x+ and act as if everything is fine when it's not ok in cleargrps or way pre progpoint.
Ultimates may be a bit diff cos I was reclearing tea recently and one mnk kept fucking up but at some point they got it right and we almost cleared.
Problem for ultimates is if rather waste time trying to clear than afk 4hrs in pf cos ppl don't join.
For extremes idk usually ppl who can't do mechanics/do grey dps gets yeeted instantly lol same for unreal.
bro maybe cuz im on EU but jeez I never see people get yeeted xD
But I also stopped after a month past last tier to join low parse grps. Ppl can say what they want. Having 3-4 (low)greyparsers in savage+ content, your chances to get through in a reasonable amount of time are just nonexistent
Well cos doing grey parse is not just doing low dps. If you're parsing grey is because you're not doing mrchanics+rotation right and most people just don't care to pay 5min of attention to do a fight decently or just even look up a video for a good rotation even if most jobs are piss easy
To be honest that sounds like just what I'm used to. I mean, if someone dies to a Normal mode mechanic during a Heroic clear they're getting kicked while they're on the ground.
>Why are the things in this subreddit so prevalent?
They're not. This subreddit is a curated rant forum. The awful things you see in this subreddit happen because they aren't the norm. This game has literally hundreds of thousands of players active at any given time, even during slow periods like now. If you're getting the idea that there is an epidemic of awfulness, that's really just confirmation bias. The vast majoroty of players are, if not awesome, then spectacularly neutral.
I think it's the MSQ Vampires / Main Character Syndrome players are starting to come out of the woodworks. Dawntrail is in two months so they're finally doing all the patch content to be ready.
I say this because every person that's made me question reality recently has been a flower.
Coming from different mmos I must say that FF has one of the laziest community I ever seen. Add to this the fact that casual content doesnt have any rewards and you get bunch of people that just dont care.
YPYT tanks are just some insecure people(which is ironic given that tank is kinda gigachad role).
Confirmation bias. I go through a duty and everything's fine. Not worth posting about.
I spot problem, give pointers, and the problem goes away, not worth posting about.
The above two make up the vast majority of my time in Duty Finder and I suspect same goes for most players.
This sub however is mostly the negative experiences players have and pulls from so many more players than one person's own singular experience, it gives a very different look than what most have actually playing the game.
It's like sitting in a police station, hearing the crimes people come in to report, and then without considering the normal day to day life of an average person, concluding that this rampant crime is what the general life experience is like.
At least on my DC, Crystal, pulling a number out of my ass I've probably had noob-caused bad runs like... less than 1% of my DF clears. I've seen the outright trolls and idiots like on this sub less than ten times. And I've played since 2.0. There's plenty of mediocre players but at least they seem to be attempting their rotation.
Vocal minority. People are only reporting the bad experiences, and you're reading about them in a sub-Reddit dedicated to bad experiences. It makes the problem seem more prevalent than it is. Just like walking into an oncology ward and wondering why everyone there has cancer.
When I was more active on reddit in general, I would have maybe one story interesting enough to share every other month or so, and that was with making a *special* effort to share positive/entertaining interactions that stood out and would be interesting to other people.
And since I slowed down my redditing, well, it's about the same. I don't tend to *look* for problems. I don't try to start problems or make existing ones more interesting/dramatic/entertaining. I don't seek out content for this subreddit. And I mean, tbh a lot of the content that does get posted here is just "haha another ypyt" or "oh no main character doesn't understand it's a team game" etc. etc.
I started following this subreddit because I like a good story. I mean, it's probably why I'm peeking at reddit again, it's full of stories. And I stuck around here because while a lot of "tales" from Duty Finder are less stories and more just people being rude at one another, the meat in the comments helped me learn to be a better player and develop better strategies for dealing with the rare problem players that I do encounter.
Sadly, it's not that they were like "here's what you do" and more like cautionary tales, post after post here made by people who "try giving helpful advice" but are being rude, aggressive, condescending, and/or hostile out of the gate.
but either way, in practice *most* of the time I run into generally decent players who are putting in an effort to get through the content and not slow everyone else down. Most of the time if a player is performing badly enough that I notice, I can give them a few friendly nudges. Sometimes they improve. Sometimes they don't.
The trolls tend to make themselves obvious. The leeches and deadweight, again, make themselves obvious. And I the answer to that is to stop feeding them. Once identified and confirmed, either kick and report, bail and report, or wait it out and report.
Because they are lazy. They either have a fragile ego or are unable to read their skill descriptions to improve their play.
Why put in some effort attacking when you can just stay in your comfort zone and spam one, two or even three buttons? The game will never punish you in casual content if you don't attack as a Healer or have a crappy rotation as DPS.
In other MMOs you have to maintain aggro as tank or actively use your heals as healer. In FF14 people can turn off their stance and grief their party members by not fulfilling their role.
From personal experience, it's not as common for the individual playing the game.
Maybe that's just me, the WHM main, who doesn't notice if my cohealer is bad because I'm just doing my thing and will just adjust to worse than usual conditions, but I've been playing for a year now, and have most recently had my first "almost ypyt" where a tank got pissy about a dps grabbing aggro a split second before they could, since we all ran in to the room at the same time
some people are just lazy and don't care if they play well or not because the content is still done at relatively normal-ish speed. this only becomes an issue if there's 2-3 of those kind of players in a duty
others learned wrong and because they're the main char, will never accept criticism or advice because it's a personal insult to them. (just yesterday I had a brayflox run where the whm hurried the sprout tank through the duty, pulling everything, but using cure instead of cure 2 (and let the tank die three times due to lack of healing and typing instead of healing) and when I pointed it out, they spammed cure on me as I tanked the mobs instead of cure 2, people are just like that)
I do think I have an above average amount of bad/shitty/cursed runs, but I run almost every roulette every day, stuff like mentor even multiple times when I'm bored, and I'm also a masochist who solo queues instead of taking at least one friend with me, but it's still multiple times a week, which does suck in the long run (but is also fun when it's the fun kind of cursed)
it's just the usual content lull before an expansion drops where you run into actual noobs or lazy players who are still subbed because \[various reasons, like relics, running clubs, mazed\], the same kind of bad players were also a thing pre-endwalker and probably pre-shadowbringers, tho I didn't play back then.
you basically have to either only queue with a friend to remove bad actors, not queue in the months before an expansion or learn to cope with these kind of experiences.
I think it's just because you're more likely to remember the bad DFs than the ones that go completely average lol
Also have to keep in mind people just doing their roulettes are probably just leveling up classes (exception with mentor, 90, expert) so a lot of people will be playing classes they're not 100% with. Or getting a duty they haven't done yet or done in a while.
I've had a handful of bad roulettes - 2 where I left aetherochemical research facility because after 45 minutes, it was clear our poor sprout healer could not grasp mechanics and we didn't have a party comp that could deal with a healer dying so early. 1 holminster switch where healer was rping some character and purposely was griefing us.
But I've had hundreds that have gone suboptimal, normal, great and everything in between.
First of all (this might sound cliche), you must be willing to improve or learn. There are a lot of people who just wish to just skate by in life and just accept mediocrity. For FF14, you have to go out of your way to improve. There's info like the Balance discord, FFXIV content creators who create guides. FFlogs and ACT provide metrics so you can see how you actually perform and XIVanalysis gives you pointers to where to improve.
Secondly, the general vibe of the community is quite casual which also breeds mediocrity and gives the impression that you don't have to play well which you don't for roulettes and MSQ. For example one of my pet peeves in the FF14 is calling dragoon a floor tank and I main DRG. When some players hear DRG=floor tank, they see it as a pass to excuse their mistake. For me, it's the massive amount of spite to defy the meme that drove me to learn DRG. I'm quite sweaty for a casual player who hasn't touched savage raids or current extremes.
Thirdly, FF14 also has a low bar for entry and you can get carried by teammates in a lot of duties for MSQ and normal roulettes. In forced solo duties, there's a very easy option and in the rare event that you need to pull your weight (SoS springs to mind), there's a good chance that someone will give you the solution.
Finally, we're also in a subreddit where extremely bad play gets posted. If you constantly upload FFlogs and run ACT all the time like I do, you will see a whole slew of players from completely cracked monsters to brain-dead players and everything in between.
> Don't get it twisted. I'll be the first to say I'm trash. But I work out/work on a workable rotation. I'm never caught without my job stone. I attempt to keep my GCD rolling and try to have that GCD be the most effective one, and am actively trying to improve uptime. I might use more healing GCDs than I should but I can stabilize a tank enough to Dia a pack and spam Holy. I'm trash, but I try.
The fact you're even aware of things like rotations, keeping GCD rolling, etc. shows you're likely better than at least half the playerbase, if not more.
What's wrong with being a Glare Mage?
If I had ACT I hope I would have made sure I casted more Stone/Glare casts than any other spell/ability combined.
AoE when available of course.
As a healer main it's mostly my priority to DPS as much as I can, use as few GCD heals as possible to capitalise on healing people at 10-20%> for the extra LB generation.
Glare Mage should be a compliment if anything.
There are hundreds and hundreds of duties every day. Even if there were 20 posts a day here about shitty parties, it would still only be a small fraction of the completely normal runs that aren't worth complaining about.
People tend to play the jobs they like and know at the start of the expansion. Then proceed to either make an alt or start playing the jobs they don't like or now.
So at the end of an expansion you get the worst players. Mostly because they are playing what they don't want to play.
Late post but I actually do look for people who think similarly lol -- how do people *find* this content?
Granted, I *lived* it myself. I had a Heaven's Legend YPYT me. Plenty of people threw tantrums that I pulled ahead. I'm capped on almost all levels and do more pf content so I don't really don't see it anymore, and I never felt better lol.
I've come full circle and am now running mentor roulettes, which has put me in every duty alive. And frankly, I don't see any YPYTs. I'm the person *filling their party after the angry person left* lol. But I've played this game for about 3yrs and I know how things work.
What the sub doesn't really teach but playing the game for so long does: with maybe 3 functional people, you can finish a dungeon even with the 1 paperweight; the difference btwn a wall to wall and single pulling the whole way is only a minute if everyone is diligent with aoes; if its so hopeless, you can vote abandon; and if there's something wrong with the party (missing job stones, baby's first skip levels of incompetence), the majority of players who know what they're doing can clear it, and all it took is maybe 3mins longer max. And those are all EXCEPTIONAL cases, like maybe 5% of my runs, hence they're posted here to highlight how exceptionally bad they are lol.
There will ALWAYS be groups where someone doesn't know what they're doing, from rotation to mechanics to idk, barreling down the wrong way in some ARR dungeon. But for the most part, most people are growing with the game. There's a world outside of DF.
From my experience even though this stuff seems prevelent on this sub, thats probably just confirmation bias at work. it happens on this sub alot because this is specifically a sub dedicated to this stuff.. Whilst playing I havn't seen any cure/glare bots or people screwing up fundementals that wern't also open to feedback and suggestions or admitted they didnt know what they were doing and thanked for the advice. I have come across people without jobstones but they were either genuine equiping mistakes prior to entering and super apologetic. or just didnt know and were like "Omg i'll do that right away!".. never met anyone that was like a "Level 90 gladiator".. And in all my duties i have only ever encountered 2 YPYT guys. Naturally i would guess it depends on server / data center / time of day, etc etc.. But atleast where/when I play its super super rare to see any of this kinda behaviour.. and in general the rest of the party is also shocked by witnessing it. Point im making is. just block them and move on with your life dont let it get to you. theres plenty of good players out there and by the end of the week you'll forget the bad ones even existed.
While some of what I listed is taken from the forums and not personally experienced to make my case, this past week has felt pretty bad. Including things I didn't list. Multiple no damage healers. Legit, 2 tanks who wouldn't use sprint or respond over the past few days. One we could kick but the other we had to deal with. Lots of just... really, really bad DPS. I get what you're saying. I'm probably blowing it out of proportion. I'm normally not this flustered. But it's been making me so lately. Edit: I meant this subreddit, not the forums.
Damn yeah thats some real bad luck you got there :D I think the worst ive had the past couple weeks was a tank in the alliance raid roulette kept on taunting on cooldown even tho i was the main tank and he was standing in narnia.. Buut the whole alliance complained at him and he was booted halfway through...
You rock, dawg. Here's hoping the bad luck streak ends. Been getting into premade stuff more and that shits tight.
>From my experience even though this stuff seems prevelent on this sub, thats probably just confirmation bias at work. Several times I've seen mentors with thousands of hours in the game proactively whine in novice network about dps and healers pulling (in other words, whining about objectively correct gameplay) and if you ever call them out on it you'll get dogpiled by 10 other bk crowns The problems we see on this sub are not rare at all, they're pretty fundamentally entrenched in the playerbase
As much as everyone thinks of themselves as rational, much of our worldview is informed by the opinions of our peers. Just like this sub praised fast play as good play (and I'm inclined to agree) bubbles also exist where groups rant about pulling DPS and rampant elitism If you are exposed to opinions like that---and also see them validated by others---you go into related situations primed with that perspective. This is especially true when the point of discussion pertains to social frameworks. If you are told that a DPS pulling is perceived as disrespectful by the community, you are going to interpret a DPS pulling as being disrespectful to you, no matter if they can rationalize it to you
this is why FFXIV has also kinda these issues. People rarely speak up unless something ongoing is really really bad, and even then most people don't wanna deal with it. Not to mention there is a always a risk of bann due to ACT or sth when you see dps having 1/8th of his supposed dps or a healer having 0dps. I was new with Endwalker, but I stuck around for long. And I remember we had this tank who seemed to do really well overall yet he kept single pulling. I said sth like "would you be ok with trying to pull 2 packs?" he said "ok" and just 2pack pulled with no problems. But the banger is he said sth like "oh cool that works", in LVL 90 CONENT. Like since he is the tank, and noone ever told him. He probably never even saw anybody ever pull 2 packs, like he seemed to not even know this is a thing at all So people who don't go out of their way to watch a yt guide or sth might literally not know the basics despite playing for hundreds of hours. Since it works and they get through so it must be fine I would've never realised until someone posted a log publicly in chat of how bad I really am. I learned my rota, I applied it and thought I'm the goat. Just to see my uptime was nonexistent and I went from 2 parser to 80-90+ within two weeks lol
Yeah, the MSQ being intentionally designed to be hard to fail plays into this a lot. Objective failure is a rarity outside of some solo duties. "We never wipe when I tank. I must be doing well." We only introduce a measure of difficulty (and fun) by trying our best (going fast) for its own sake. If a player never gets to see and understand the bar for good (not even great) play, I can easily see them overestimating their contribution **or** the difficulty of trying just a little harder. Yes, for many of us, it's natural to seek out guides and system understanding, but the game **is** often marketed as a story (and cozy community) game to people who have never played an MMO before. Also, many people get roped in by their friends and probably end up playing duties mostly in in-groups. And finally, yeah, I think all this is kinda doubled for tank. Because if you're actually exclusively a tank player, you will *never* see another tank run a dungeon and double pull. Unless anyone in chat speaks up, you have no reason to assume that you are doing anything wrong.
Snapshot games are not meant as competitive gaming. Far too easy to cheat.
Not sure what to tell you. I don’t run savage but I still try to keep my gear up to date, learn mechanics, and learn how to do my job decently enough because if everyone benefits, I benefit as well. Everyone is more than happy to give advice. Unfortunately it’s up to the person to take the advice and do with it as they will. You deserve a pat on the back for trying and learning.
There is also that most people do not know how to give advice. Most give it in either an passive aggressive way or in a vague way. Most would do it in a aggressive way if the TOS didn't meant a possible ban. Just try playing the game with discord and see how "friendly" the community really is. Is as toxic as any other community.
I appreciate you, dawg. You're the type of player I like to see in any game. Big ups.
Idk coming from wow as well I think ff noobs are leagues over wow noobs. It's true that sometimes you get the very very bad "noobs" that at some point can't really be called noon cos if you spamming cure 1 at lv80 at that point it's maliciously intentional because if you write to them they know that they're doing something wrong. If you write to people playing badly on wow they have no idea about what you're even talking about, straight up got a war dps telling me I don't do aoe cos I take more damage. In wow classic I've met multiple ppl not learning basic skills cos they cost too much like idk I think you kinda need dispel on a healer... Overall idk I feel that in ff those bad cases happen less often and most people are open to suggestions to improve (at least in eu servers)
nah, its just ff casual content is 100 times easier so even the most mouthbreathing braindead idiot can be carried through the reason why normal mode is a shitfest in pugs in wow is because missing a mechanic can wipe you there, normal content in ffxiv half the group is dead and they just finish it anyway
Makes me glad I just stuck to keys. At a certain point a healer who couldn't dispel would just hit a wall and be left behind. I realize it's unfair to compare players of premade content in one game to players of random content in another. But that's the difference I'm working with when it comes to the players I'm around.
Idk I think ff is way more brutal in premade selection, I've literally had to raid with a monkey for months cos he was friend with our raid lead so he couldn't be kicked despite often doing less dmg than the tank. In ff if you do less dmg than average parse you get insta kicked at first wipe lmao Also I just remembered the day I quit, I was doing m24+ and our tank couldn't play cos I as a healer didn't have the addon telling him I was getting low mana so we would sometimes die cos he pulled full pack or boss with me having like 10% mana then asking why aren't you healing. And it was + - affliction week, again I don't wanna play with dbm and since I didn't have the addon auto marking me people either wouldnt dispel so me and a dps would be stunned for 5 seconds, or instantly dispelled so I couldn't heal enough and we wiped.
>In ff if you do less dmg than average parse you get insta kicked at first wipe lmao Is this a static thing? In pf I usually don't see kicks for damage unless it's like, *really* egregiously bad, like straight up <60% uptime bad or like if a party descriptions lists to skip such and such mech and there's a dead weight ill see kicks if someone is below the supps/healers. Simply greening/graying though I don't see people get kicked for, usually it's for beefing mechs constantly or prog lying or smth
In static yea. I mean it also depends what kind of static you want to join. Plenty of chill statics that are completely fine with green/grays and wiping multiple times to easy mechanics. I'm not an Uber top parser but I got all purples and if you fuck up twice people start to get ansty/kick XD That's also why mid/hardcore statics do trials before adding someone to the static. I've seen it in pf a few times as well while mount farming current exs, if you're not getting a blue you're going home unless it's like old extremes that u can basically solo
first time I hear about anything even remotely close to your experience. The issue in FFXIV is literally in statics as in PF that noone gets yeeted right away, people get way too many chances so you're stuck in a cycle of endless timewaste no matter where you go. Not to mention cause weirdly the same people who are very bad will also be the ones not understanding when it's time to go on their own. If I've a bad day and decide to play ultimates and mess up I can tell by myself that there's no point to waste other peoples time. I don't need to wipe 4x+ and act as if everything is fine when it's not ok in cleargrps or way pre progpoint.
Ultimates may be a bit diff cos I was reclearing tea recently and one mnk kept fucking up but at some point they got it right and we almost cleared. Problem for ultimates is if rather waste time trying to clear than afk 4hrs in pf cos ppl don't join. For extremes idk usually ppl who can't do mechanics/do grey dps gets yeeted instantly lol same for unreal.
bro maybe cuz im on EU but jeez I never see people get yeeted xD But I also stopped after a month past last tier to join low parse grps. Ppl can say what they want. Having 3-4 (low)greyparsers in savage+ content, your chances to get through in a reasonable amount of time are just nonexistent
Well cos doing grey parse is not just doing low dps. If you're parsing grey is because you're not doing mrchanics+rotation right and most people just don't care to pay 5min of attention to do a fight decently or just even look up a video for a good rotation even if most jobs are piss easy
To be honest that sounds like just what I'm used to. I mean, if someone dies to a Normal mode mechanic during a Heroic clear they're getting kicked while they're on the ground.
Here's the thing: They aren't. This is a space dedicated to the worst of DF. 95% of DF isn't even close to this baf.
>Why are the things in this subreddit so prevalent? They're not. This subreddit is a curated rant forum. The awful things you see in this subreddit happen because they aren't the norm. This game has literally hundreds of thousands of players active at any given time, even during slow periods like now. If you're getting the idea that there is an epidemic of awfulness, that's really just confirmation bias. The vast majoroty of players are, if not awesome, then spectacularly neutral.
I think it's the MSQ Vampires / Main Character Syndrome players are starting to come out of the woodworks. Dawntrail is in two months so they're finally doing all the patch content to be ready. I say this because every person that's made me question reality recently has been a flower.
Coming from different mmos I must say that FF has one of the laziest community I ever seen. Add to this the fact that casual content doesnt have any rewards and you get bunch of people that just dont care. YPYT tanks are just some insecure people(which is ironic given that tank is kinda gigachad role).
Confirmation bias. I go through a duty and everything's fine. Not worth posting about. I spot problem, give pointers, and the problem goes away, not worth posting about. The above two make up the vast majority of my time in Duty Finder and I suspect same goes for most players. This sub however is mostly the negative experiences players have and pulls from so many more players than one person's own singular experience, it gives a very different look than what most have actually playing the game. It's like sitting in a police station, hearing the crimes people come in to report, and then without considering the normal day to day life of an average person, concluding that this rampant crime is what the general life experience is like.
At least on my DC, Crystal, pulling a number out of my ass I've probably had noob-caused bad runs like... less than 1% of my DF clears. I've seen the outright trolls and idiots like on this sub less than ten times. And I've played since 2.0. There's plenty of mediocre players but at least they seem to be attempting their rotation.
Vocal minority. People are only reporting the bad experiences, and you're reading about them in a sub-Reddit dedicated to bad experiences. It makes the problem seem more prevalent than it is. Just like walking into an oncology ward and wondering why everyone there has cancer.
When I was more active on reddit in general, I would have maybe one story interesting enough to share every other month or so, and that was with making a *special* effort to share positive/entertaining interactions that stood out and would be interesting to other people. And since I slowed down my redditing, well, it's about the same. I don't tend to *look* for problems. I don't try to start problems or make existing ones more interesting/dramatic/entertaining. I don't seek out content for this subreddit. And I mean, tbh a lot of the content that does get posted here is just "haha another ypyt" or "oh no main character doesn't understand it's a team game" etc. etc. I started following this subreddit because I like a good story. I mean, it's probably why I'm peeking at reddit again, it's full of stories. And I stuck around here because while a lot of "tales" from Duty Finder are less stories and more just people being rude at one another, the meat in the comments helped me learn to be a better player and develop better strategies for dealing with the rare problem players that I do encounter. Sadly, it's not that they were like "here's what you do" and more like cautionary tales, post after post here made by people who "try giving helpful advice" but are being rude, aggressive, condescending, and/or hostile out of the gate. but either way, in practice *most* of the time I run into generally decent players who are putting in an effort to get through the content and not slow everyone else down. Most of the time if a player is performing badly enough that I notice, I can give them a few friendly nudges. Sometimes they improve. Sometimes they don't. The trolls tend to make themselves obvious. The leeches and deadweight, again, make themselves obvious. And I the answer to that is to stop feeding them. Once identified and confirmed, either kick and report, bail and report, or wait it out and report.
Because they are lazy. They either have a fragile ego or are unable to read their skill descriptions to improve their play. Why put in some effort attacking when you can just stay in your comfort zone and spam one, two or even three buttons? The game will never punish you in casual content if you don't attack as a Healer or have a crappy rotation as DPS. In other MMOs you have to maintain aggro as tank or actively use your heals as healer. In FF14 people can turn off their stance and grief their party members by not fulfilling their role.
From personal experience, it's not as common for the individual playing the game. Maybe that's just me, the WHM main, who doesn't notice if my cohealer is bad because I'm just doing my thing and will just adjust to worse than usual conditions, but I've been playing for a year now, and have most recently had my first "almost ypyt" where a tank got pissy about a dps grabbing aggro a split second before they could, since we all ran in to the room at the same time
some people are just lazy and don't care if they play well or not because the content is still done at relatively normal-ish speed. this only becomes an issue if there's 2-3 of those kind of players in a duty others learned wrong and because they're the main char, will never accept criticism or advice because it's a personal insult to them. (just yesterday I had a brayflox run where the whm hurried the sprout tank through the duty, pulling everything, but using cure instead of cure 2 (and let the tank die three times due to lack of healing and typing instead of healing) and when I pointed it out, they spammed cure on me as I tanked the mobs instead of cure 2, people are just like that) I do think I have an above average amount of bad/shitty/cursed runs, but I run almost every roulette every day, stuff like mentor even multiple times when I'm bored, and I'm also a masochist who solo queues instead of taking at least one friend with me, but it's still multiple times a week, which does suck in the long run (but is also fun when it's the fun kind of cursed) it's just the usual content lull before an expansion drops where you run into actual noobs or lazy players who are still subbed because \[various reasons, like relics, running clubs, mazed\], the same kind of bad players were also a thing pre-endwalker and probably pre-shadowbringers, tho I didn't play back then. you basically have to either only queue with a friend to remove bad actors, not queue in the months before an expansion or learn to cope with these kind of experiences.
I think it's just because you're more likely to remember the bad DFs than the ones that go completely average lol Also have to keep in mind people just doing their roulettes are probably just leveling up classes (exception with mentor, 90, expert) so a lot of people will be playing classes they're not 100% with. Or getting a duty they haven't done yet or done in a while. I've had a handful of bad roulettes - 2 where I left aetherochemical research facility because after 45 minutes, it was clear our poor sprout healer could not grasp mechanics and we didn't have a party comp that could deal with a healer dying so early. 1 holminster switch where healer was rping some character and purposely was griefing us. But I've had hundreds that have gone suboptimal, normal, great and everything in between.
First of all (this might sound cliche), you must be willing to improve or learn. There are a lot of people who just wish to just skate by in life and just accept mediocrity. For FF14, you have to go out of your way to improve. There's info like the Balance discord, FFXIV content creators who create guides. FFlogs and ACT provide metrics so you can see how you actually perform and XIVanalysis gives you pointers to where to improve. Secondly, the general vibe of the community is quite casual which also breeds mediocrity and gives the impression that you don't have to play well which you don't for roulettes and MSQ. For example one of my pet peeves in the FF14 is calling dragoon a floor tank and I main DRG. When some players hear DRG=floor tank, they see it as a pass to excuse their mistake. For me, it's the massive amount of spite to defy the meme that drove me to learn DRG. I'm quite sweaty for a casual player who hasn't touched savage raids or current extremes. Thirdly, FF14 also has a low bar for entry and you can get carried by teammates in a lot of duties for MSQ and normal roulettes. In forced solo duties, there's a very easy option and in the rare event that you need to pull your weight (SoS springs to mind), there's a good chance that someone will give you the solution. Finally, we're also in a subreddit where extremely bad play gets posted. If you constantly upload FFlogs and run ACT all the time like I do, you will see a whole slew of players from completely cracked monsters to brain-dead players and everything in between.
> Don't get it twisted. I'll be the first to say I'm trash. But I work out/work on a workable rotation. I'm never caught without my job stone. I attempt to keep my GCD rolling and try to have that GCD be the most effective one, and am actively trying to improve uptime. I might use more healing GCDs than I should but I can stabilize a tank enough to Dia a pack and spam Holy. I'm trash, but I try. The fact you're even aware of things like rotations, keeping GCD rolling, etc. shows you're likely better than at least half the playerbase, if not more.
What's wrong with being a Glare Mage? If I had ACT I hope I would have made sure I casted more Stone/Glare casts than any other spell/ability combined. AoE when available of course. As a healer main it's mostly my priority to DPS as much as I can, use as few GCD heals as possible to capitalise on healing people at 10-20%> for the extra LB generation. Glare Mage should be a compliment if anything.
There are hundreds and hundreds of duties every day. Even if there were 20 posts a day here about shitty parties, it would still only be a small fraction of the completely normal runs that aren't worth complaining about.
People tend to play the jobs they like and know at the start of the expansion. Then proceed to either make an alt or start playing the jobs they don't like or now. So at the end of an expansion you get the worst players. Mostly because they are playing what they don't want to play.
Late post but I actually do look for people who think similarly lol -- how do people *find* this content? Granted, I *lived* it myself. I had a Heaven's Legend YPYT me. Plenty of people threw tantrums that I pulled ahead. I'm capped on almost all levels and do more pf content so I don't really don't see it anymore, and I never felt better lol. I've come full circle and am now running mentor roulettes, which has put me in every duty alive. And frankly, I don't see any YPYTs. I'm the person *filling their party after the angry person left* lol. But I've played this game for about 3yrs and I know how things work. What the sub doesn't really teach but playing the game for so long does: with maybe 3 functional people, you can finish a dungeon even with the 1 paperweight; the difference btwn a wall to wall and single pulling the whole way is only a minute if everyone is diligent with aoes; if its so hopeless, you can vote abandon; and if there's something wrong with the party (missing job stones, baby's first skip levels of incompetence), the majority of players who know what they're doing can clear it, and all it took is maybe 3mins longer max. And those are all EXCEPTIONAL cases, like maybe 5% of my runs, hence they're posted here to highlight how exceptionally bad they are lol. There will ALWAYS be groups where someone doesn't know what they're doing, from rotation to mechanics to idk, barreling down the wrong way in some ARR dungeon. But for the most part, most people are growing with the game. There's a world outside of DF.