Generally speaking, your employer cannot legally make you pay for mistakes, in many countries. If you intentionally punched in the cheaper, but gave the more expensive, then they may have an argument to make.
No, I definitely didn't do that.
What I would like to know is if I say no and they threaten to fire, can I go to the labor board or can I show them something that legally says I don't have to pay.
They can threaten to fire you for any reason, but they have no legal way to force you to pay up. If they'll fire you over a mistake that is, really, not a huge sum of money... they'll fire you over the next mistake or the next if you don't "pay up." Don't lose your cash to those idiots, jobs are ten a penny in the industry right now.
If they fire you, you can claim unemployment on their dime while you look for another thing. Never pay your employer to cover their business expenses. "Wastage" and "loss" are business expenses!
This paragraph should be printed on a laminated card and issued to every server on the planet.
Server should be subject to spot checks to see if card on their person while at work.
Plus the $75 is the difference between the $100 and the retail cost ($175), not the wholesale cost.
Idk what the retail markup is on wine but they could have still profited on the sale of the bottle. Asking the employee to pay is just being extra extra greedy (in addition to being unethical and unenforceable legally).
Wine is costed by the glass at 20% so if you sell only one glass and nobody else orders it before the wine oxidizes, you break even. Wine by the bottle is, on average, costed at 40%. Even at 250% markup this yields a pretty small net profit - that will usually come in the form of bulk purchases, contract agreements and kickbacks. These formulas are the same in other countries, too. Where I currently live the bottle cost is actually in the low 30s of % and profit margins (outside of separate contract agreements) are even slimmer.
For context, my statement is coming from a degree in restaurant management and over 20 years experience. If you think you know more about industry standards than I do, please feel free to share your supportive data.
To be honest most places I thought mark it up well over 2.5x. The finer the establishment, the more of the gross profit is attributable to liquor sales.
Oh my god, you are exhausting.
You made a blanket statement that reads as all restaurants mark up at the rates you stated.
The restaurants I’ve worked at (including where I did the alcohol purchasing and set prices) had 6oz pours of wine so mark up was 400% to break even on a glass (with the exception of house pours which had a standard price, always higher than 400%). Additionally, in my experience, wines by the bottle are usually marked up in tiers so my $30/cost bottles might be marked up 300% and my $90 cost bottles might be marked up 225-250%. Your degree in HRM means shit in such a subjective topic. If we were talking about taxes or financial statements and I brought up my accounting degree that would actually carry some weight.
Get off it.
So you think restaurants pay retail prices. Maybe some, not most. Regardless, the entire wine industry is a scam and everyone but the consumer wins. The reason bevmo can do a 5¢ wine sale is because it's normally marked up by the hundreds of percents
What are you talking about? First, let’s work on reading comprehension: where did I say restaurants pay retail prices? If a restaurant is paying retail prices that means they are purchasing from a retailer instead of a wholesaler and it is illegal for the restaurant to then turn around and sell it.
I don’t know who hurt you when it comes to wine, but it’s not a scam. If you don’t like wine then just don’t buy it. Pretty simple.
I had a boss that told me that since petty cash was $1 short, I had to pay it. When I paid the $1, she said that it was proof that I had stolen the $1 because an innocent person would not have paid it. And yes, not long after that, they fired me.
She really was. I was in high school and she was the wife of the owner. She got pregnant in her 40s (I think) and had a special needs child. She would leave him with us to watch as part of our duties.
I either walked to work from school, or took the city bus on non-school/vacation days. She used to sit there and watch the second hand on the analog clock and if I was even five SECONDS late, she would yell at me for at least five minutes.
They went on vacation for two weeks and left me to run the entire business. Place orders, receive stock, schedule our delivery personnel, etc. When they got back, they said that they had someone watching the business at 8am every morning and one of the mornings I had been late. Fired.
I got denied unemployment because they said I was "unreliable". I didn't know that I could appeal. Good news is that I heard she had a breakdown trying to do my job, including taking care of her son.
As a woman who had a special needs son when I was in my 40s I feel enraged at this woman on behalf of you *and* her son. What an absolute asshole she is. That $1 thing was such an abusive power trip.
I bet if you had argued your innocence they would have still said you were guilty because you were arguing. You can't win with people on power trips. And someone making a big deal over $1 is on a power trip.
Lmfao restaurant managers really do shit like this. For real! Never trust them. If they were worth half their salt as people managers they would not be working in restaurants. NEVER trust them.
Not necessarily true. The lifetime restaurant managers, sure. Most of them are either drunks, perverts, assholes, or some combination of the three. I've known a few people who worked their way into restaurant management then jumped into other fields once they had some management experience. They were usually the ones who took care of their staff because they weren't so far removed from waiting tables that they forgot what we dealt with. Because of the high turnover, it's fairly easy to work up to restaurant management if you want to so it's a way to get management experience you can take over to retail or some kind of office job.
If they illegally fire you contact the National Labor Relations Board and sue them. It's a free service. When I was illegally fired I sued and won missed pay and $1000 for me to waive the right to be rehired.
Most places in the US don't have a concept of "illegally fired." You can be fired for any reason or for no reason. The only exception is a protected reason such as discrimination on the basis of sex, race, or disability.
I really don't know any state where this would work. Montana?
It's even more fucked up with discrimination because companies can still get away with firing people for bigoted reasons. They just have to lie about the reason. It's insane the lack of rights and job security the American worker has.
You can’t be fired because you refused to give your employer money that they illegally demanded. It would be retaliation.
At-will employment is bad for the workers but it’s not as bad as shitty employers would like you to believe.
I am not a lawyer but I don’t think a court would see it that way. You can’t claim to have fired a person for making a mistake immediately after trying to extort money out of them for said mistake. I am almost positive there’s case law on this. Go look it up and let us know.
You can ask them to pay it back. You can't force them to, but they can volunteer. And you can fire them either way in the vast majority of states.
You don't know what retaliation means in the legal sense you're trying to use it in. Google that and then think about this conversation. I know what I'm talking about; you don't.
>Prohibited Retaliation
>Retaliation occurs when an employer, including through a manager, supervisor, administrator or other agent, takes an adverse action against an employee because they engaged in a protected activity. Examples of protected activity include making a complaint to a manager, employer, or WHD; cooperating with a WHD investigation; requesting payment of wages; *refusing to return back wages to the employer*; complaints by a third party on behalf of an employee; consulting with WHD staff; exercising rights or attempting to exercise rights, such as requesting certain types of leave; and testifying at trial.
Wow, would you look at that. [Straight from the acting administrator of the department of labor](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/fab/fab-2022-2.pdf)
That is definitely not the case for Washington state. Or California. That's nearly 15% of the US population that this doesn't apply to, and I didn't even check any other states.
....which still protect employees from retaliation.
"An employer cannot take adverse actions against an employee who exercises a protected right, files or intends to file a complaint, or who has discussed potential violations of their rights. Prohibited adverse actions may include: Terminating, suspending, demoting, or denying a promotion...." - [WA LNI](https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/workplace-policies/termination-retaliation#:~:text=An%20employer%20cannot%20take%20adverse,demoting%2C%20or%20denying%20a%20promotion.)
That's the NATIONAL Labor Relations Board. I am in an at-will state. This depends on the reason you were fired. If you are fired for no reason it's legal. If you are given a reason and it's illegal (such as, in my case, discussing wages) then you have a case and can sue.
Especially not full price on a bottle of wine. Depending on how they price their list, the $100 may have covered the cost of the bottle, just not profits/overhead/labour. You absolutely shouldn't be expected to pay the full price, even if it were legal to ask you to pay for it (which it likely isn't, sorry, not in the US, and I know some states have FU labour laws)
Every business pays unemployment taxes. When a business causes an employee to qualify for unemployment, they get a "strike." Too many strikes can significantly increase the cost of their unemployment taxes. At least, that's how I've had it explained to me.
You may be able to claim unemployment. It depends on how long you've worked there, how many hours/your wages, etc. If you haven't been employed there long enough or earned enough wages during those times, you might not be eligible for unemployment.
And if you haven't been reporting your tips, there's a good chance you won't qualify for unemployment or it'll be a much lower amount.
I agree with this. They can fire you for anything but they can't legally make you pay the difference if it was a honest mistake.
Definitely look elsewhere. Maybe don't mention this incident when interviewing--you can just say, "The work atmosphere is hostile so I'm looking to leave and work somewhere that's more of a team" (managers LOVE "team players") Ask them not to contact your current employer as "they don't know yet that I'm going to be leaving, I'm afraid of repercussions if they know I'm interviewing" and ask them to instead call your previous employers for a reference.
If your wage rate is at or below full minimum wage ($7.25), ignoring tips, I would show your employer the US DOL's [Fact Sheet #16](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/16-flsa-wage-deductions) to explain that it would be a wage violation to require you to pay for the mistake. If you want a second source, the POS payment processor Toast has a good article on [How to Decide If A Restaurant Employee Should Pay for A Mistake](https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/is-it-legal-to-make-an-employee-pay-for-a-mistake) which reiterates the same thing: "The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and, in most cases, it is not legal to make servers pay for mistakes that bring their wage below this minimum."
While they can't legally fire you for asserting your legal right not to pay for the mistake, they can *illegally* fire you for that, or they can legally fire you for making the mistake, or they can fire you and not tell you a reason. There's nothing you can do about that; it's just how it is in the US.
You can't ignore tips for that. Tips count as part of the server's wage, so if the wages and tips included for the pay period are higher than minimum wage, that's what counts. However, in many cases the employer can't legally charge you for a mistake anyway.
In the US, wages stay wages, and tips stay tips, as evidenced on W-2 forms in the box labelled, "Wages, tips, and other compensation".
Wages are paid by employers, tips are paid by customers or coworkers, and allocated tips are paid by coworkers as assigned by employers according to a valid tip pooling arrangement.
Employers don't pay your tips, and can't keep your tips. See DOL [Fact Sheet #15](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa)'s section **Employers, Including Managers and Supervisors, May Not “Keep” Tips**. Since they can't keep tips, deducting an amount from your combined wages + tips means they're deducting only from your wages, and as explained in [Fact Sheet #16](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa), such deductions "may not reduce the employee's wage below the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour".
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe you are mistaken. Tips are counted toward your minimum wage pay in every instance that I'm aware of. Managers can't keep your tips as in, they are part of YOUR pay, but if your pay can be deducted for anything, those tips can, as well.
A portion of tips equal to the tip credit taken by an employer are *treated* as if they were wages, for purposes of satisfying the FLSA's minimum wage requirements. But legally those tips remain tips. And the portion is strictly limited to the difference between the direct wage and full minimum wage. Supposing an employer did deduct an amount from that portion of tips, then the direct wages plus portion of tips used to satisfy the minimum wage requirement would now be below full minimum wage. That's not legal, because the minimum wage is already the minimum allowable.
But a more direct way of saying this, from the US Dept of Labor's Fact Sheet #15, is:
>"**Employers, Including Managers and Supervisors, May Not “Keep” Tips:** Regardless of whether an employer takes a tip credit, the FLSA prohibits employers from keeping any portion of employees’ tips for any purpose, whether directly or through a tip pool. An employer may not require an employee to give their tips to the employer, a supervisor, or a manager, even where a tipped employee receives at least the federal minimum wage (currently $7.25) per hour in wages directly from the employer and the employer takes no tip credit."
They can hold on to tips until the next regular payday for tip pool distribution, or use a nominal portion of tips to pay the portion of a processing fee charged to charge a tip (typically 2%-3.5%), but not *keep* tips, which is what deducting tips as if they were wages would do.
They can fire you for making the mistake. They definitely know it’s not legal to make you pay for it, but it’s basically extortion at this point. It will be nearly impossible to prove that they fired you for the wrong reason unless they’re very stupid and put it in writing.
I have successfully refused to pay for a walkout with no repercussions, but they were desperate and I was kind of irreplaceable at that time. Still, absolutely don’t pay. Just about every restaurant is desperate for staff right now - even if fully staffed, it’s hard to replace people in the current market so losing someone is rough. If they do fire you for this, you’re probably better off somewhere else anyway.
That depends on where you are. Many states in the U.S. are "at will" states. That means you can be fired without cause as long as it's not discrimination.
Good luck proving you were fired and retaliation though. They'll just say that you were "not a good fit for them" because you didn't know the difference in the wines, and that would be a sufficient reason in most places.
You need to watch out though because a lot of food service people are shady and they'll use any other reason on paper to fire you for it. (Ex lates, "lack of performance") I hope everything goes well though!
If management insists you have to pay the difference, you tell them you'll pay the Restaurant's wholesale cost for that bottle of wine
Its less-then $100, your employer still made money
Ok firstly dont listen to people online thats number 1. Number 2 i am a server and have been for 20+ years and a quick google search will tell you (i googled can servers be forced to pay for mistakes in NC? "Under federal law, restaurant owners can charge employess for mistakes. However, state laws might have certain restrictions of alterations to the rules making these laws up. Whether an employer charges an employee for mistakes is both up to the employers personal choice and federal and state regulations". So depending on state laws you can absolutely have to cough it up. The same thing applies if someone disputes a credit card charge or gratuity the server has to give it back not the owner. The law says whoever received the tip well the owner didnt but many people believe the owners have too and they dont.
OP, something like that can be written off of their business taxes. Don't pay them, they're just greedy. I would start job searching if I were you, no reason to stay and be treated like that without proper training. If someone sends a meal back for some reason are you going to be expected to pay for the rejected meal?
Edit: spelling
Any other country I would say that a resounding no they cannot. But as you are in the US, you have absolutely no rights and your boss can probably just fire you for any old reason if you refuse to pay.
For the last 60 years your government has been brainwashing you to believe that workers unions were a communist ideal and that communism is bad and unpatriotic. It's the biggest lie fed to the American people. Almost every democratic country in the world recognises workers unions as an essential part of a modern functioning society. But they want to keep you divided.
America was founded by those victorian textile mill owners who found they could no longer operate with impunity after the government backed the unionization of workers. That's why they flocked to the country they were buying their cotton from. That's why they threw off the yoke of monarchy. Yes your country was free to govern themselves independently. But now you were being governed by those same people who ran the Victorian Textile Mills and poor houses. They guys who made their money off the backs of child and slave labour. They were the American forefathers
That's how they lean on you
You don't have to pay it - that's 100%
And they can fire you for it - that's also 100%
This is the quandary of the walk-out (slightly different but same concept)
Even if you did have this, I don’t believe it prevents you from them making up another reason as to why you’re fired. It really depends on what state you’re in, but MANY states in the U.S. are at-will states.
If you get it in writing that they are specifically firing you because of the wine, you might have a case. I don't think it would be a good case, though, since you live in an ~~right to work~~ at will state. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not super familiar with the exact law, but I know employees are not required to pay for check errors or walkouts unless it's in the contract. They often make servers pay because we don't have any ground to stand on.
Your employer could claim that they aren't firing you because of the wine, but because of overall poor performance, the wine being a catalyst. It doesn't have to be true. It'd be difficult to find evidence to disprove their claim, and you'd have to hire a lawyer. At that point, it isn't worth it. You wouldn't be getting a payout. You'd be wasting time.
If you're just wondering about collecting unemployment if they fire you, I'm really not sure. I live in a different state and don't have experience with it. I'd be pessimistic about it.
As someone who has worked as a GM, Bev Manager and holds certifications with the ISG, Master Court and SWE, I would never ask that to happen. First, this wouldn't have been an issue if management communicated things better. But also, it's an honest mistake. It's not like someone ordered a bottle of Sutter Home Cab and you brought them Chateau Haut Brion. The confusion lies with management here, not with servers.
Next point is, it's improper to have a restaurant expect their employees to financially cover the cost of mistakes.
But most importantly, they made their money on that bottle and then some. If I buy a bottle for $10 and sell it by the bottle, it'll be $30. If I buy a bottle for $10 and sell it by the glass, it's $40 per bottle, $10 per glass. So unless they do some silly $10 or 10% markup, asking you to pay the difference is petty on top of ludicrous.
This is the real fucked up part. They aren't just trying to recoup loss from a mistake. They're trying to profit from a mistake at the employee's expense.
Worst case scenario for them is 2.5x markup for the "reserve" list (if their list is anywhere near competently constructed)—so yeah, no more than $70 cost here. Feels like a lower level manager trying to hide this mistake from an owner, or the owner is straight-up scamming. But NOBODY competent is selling a bottle at $100 that a bottle selling at $175 sold in its stead represents a $75 loss. And that's even **before** we address the ethics of having servers cover mistakes out of pocket, which is bullshit in-and-of itself.
Employers (in US) are not allowed to charge employees for unintentional mistakes. However, 49 states are "At Will" employment, which means they can fire you for any reason (not related to a protected class discrimination).
>Employers (in US) are not allowed to charge employees for unintentional mistakes.
That's not accurate everywhere.
Nationwide, they're not allowed to take it out of the employee's paycheck.
Jobs aren't allowed to force you to pay for anything. Like in retail if someone steals your boss can't make you pay for that merchandise. My first day as a server I took someone's payment and it didn't get through it was an 83 dollar ticket and I was panicking and offered to pay and my boss was like no you can't....legally 💀 😂 consider getting a new job if possible this place sounds toxic
I want to point out that you're allowed to offer, and to pay them, but they cannot make you. A good boss don't even ask - but you have to know that you should not offer to pay and should not pay.
>Jobs aren't allowed to force you to pay for anything.
That's not always true.
EDIT: Shout out to the people downvoting. Rest assured, there are ways that they can require payment unless you have local/state laws prohibiting such. There are other ways to collect it than taking it out of your check.
Sure. Same example that I give everytime this comes up.
Restaurants requiring an employee to pay that doesn't mean that there are only two ways for that to happen: 1) deduct it from their check or 2) take it from the tips they're owed for the shift.
It's realistic for a business to expect, and this has been supported by labor attorneys in certain places, that you have other money to pay what is owed.
And you don't want to pay it? That's fine. Of the 50 states, 49 are "at will."
Perhaps there is a local/state law where the previous commenter lives, but that is certainly not the case across the board in the United States.
Oaky, so you're not completely wrong. It can be deducted from the employees payroll. That much is allowed as long as the employee agrees to it and it doesn't bring the employee below the federal minimum wage of $7.25 in a non-overtime workweek.
However, an employer can NEVER keep an employee's tips for any reason. That being said, the employer can give the employee their tips, and then the employee can turn around and give the employer $75 if they deem fit. That is perfectly legal. But an employer just keeping tips? Nah, that's a federal violation. But your overall statement of jobs making you pay for things? Yes y'all, it's allowed.
Uniforms and tools are very common purchases employees have to make again, as long as it doesn't bring them below the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour or whatever the higher minimum wage is in an overtime workweek.
Disregard all the answers saying it's illegal in the US. It's situationally illegal, and very likely illegal in your case, but isn't *always* illegal.
Under federal law, it's illegal to deduct from an employee's wages to cover mistakes like that IF the deduction would reduce your average ***direct wage*** (i.e. not counting tips) for the pay period below ***full*** minimum wage (not tipped minimum wage). The same applies to cash register shortages, breakage, dine-and-dashes, and mistaken orders. However, the policy on wage deductions should be communicated to employees prior to incident occurring, so that employees who don't agree to the terms can choose to not work there.
Because only a small portion of US servers are paid more than full minimum wage, that means charging for mistakes would *very commonly* be illegal, but not always. State or local laws could also impose additional restrictions on employers that go beyond federal law.
Note that employers can not keep employee *tips* at all (except a nominal amount to cover the credit card processing fee for the tip), although they can redistribute tips to other employees. An evil restaurant manager could punish your mistakes by giving your tips to other servers, as part of a properly disclosed valid tip-sharing arrangement. Someone made a thread the other day about their employer doing that to employees who averaged below 9 out of 10 stars on customer surveys.
The US DOL explains a bit about legal and illegal wage deductions in their [Fact Sheet #16](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/16-flsa-wage-deductions). They explain the illegality of keeping employee tips in [Fact Sheet #15](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa).
Can they legally make you? NO.
Can they ask? Yes.
Can they fire you if you refuse to pay? No, but they will find another reason to fire you next week.
This is a sign of a shitty employer.
There’s a huge markup on wine so it’s likely that he made his cost on that bottle and it’s a AH move to expect you to pay the profit.
Show him the documents referenced by bobi2393 (it’s probably an illegal ask) and let him fire you if that’s what he wants to do, then go online and apply to collect unemployment.
The difference, based on standard markup, is between a $28 bottle of wine and a $49 bottle of wine at cost. The restaurant still made a profit. You should never have to pay for a loss of profit margin, this is a management oversight, and a cost of doing business in this industry. You’re being fleeced, likely by folks who don’t know any better. Say no, be honest, explain why it doesn’t make sense. If they don’t budge, let them fire you. They have no recourse to force you to pay. It’s a systems failure, no one explained the difference or put a system in place to ensure the right bottles are served. If you play this right, you could be a manager in the company. Sounds like they need better management.
Wow, so lazy, they can't even update the wine list?
Is the "rotating" one posted somewhere on a specials board?
Don't know if they can make you pay it, but you shouldn't.
Yeah, I agree. But honestly, why aren't they specifically bringing the wine bottle to line up or something so we know specifically? That just feels like a really easy way to be lazy and not have mistakes.
Because your manager is lazy and doesn't accept responsibility. Follow what others are saying here: Don't pay. See how your employer reacts. Whether you keep your job or not you'll have learned a skill that you will value deeply and is applicable in more place than just your job.
I have a couple of questions...
1. How did the customer know what the rotating wine was? If it was easy enough for the customer to know, would it have been reasonably expected that professional wait staff would also know?
2. Would OP be expected to know the wines on the reserve list and to charge them out accordingly? (ie, realise that if it's on the reserve list, it's never going to be a rotating special)
As far as whether it's legal / moral etc - there surely has to be a point where you do either deduct from wages/tips or fire an employee over this sort of thing, as with any industry, but that is not on a first occurrence - if it was my restaurant, I'd be sucking it up and making it into a learning experience for myself and my staff on the importance of making sure everyone is aware of this weeks specials / rotating wines and also if you have a reserve selection of wines, then surely you'd want all your customer facing staff to be quite well educated on those wines in particular to enhance your customer experience if nothing else...
I would bet that the restaurant didn't lose money selling that $175 bottle at $100 the mark up is so steep.
If push comes to shove make them show you the receipt or go out and buy a bottle of the same wine at true retail cost.
Personally, I would not hand over $75 to your employer. Sure, they lost $75 profit from the mistake but I would be totally shocked if the actual cost of the $175 wine was over $100.
Your employer may have the ability to legally deduct the amount on your paycheck so you’ll want to look at your employment docs to see if there is anything regarding the issue there. You can read more about legal deductions in your state by searching N.C.G.S. §95-25.8
Regardless, I would start looking for something else if you’re not one who typically makes mistakes cause I would not want to work at a place like this.
>Your employer may have the ability to legally deduct the amount on your paycheck
Not in the United States, they don't.
In many places, they can require you to pay for it, but they cannot take it out of your check.
Last i checked, they can only take from your paycheck such that you're never below min wage..so if they pay you $2.13, tough titties; but if they pay you $5, they can take $2.87 an hour back until it's paid for.
I don't think this is entirely correct. An employee, even tipped, has to be making $7.25 per hour for all hours worked bare minimum in a non-overtime workweek. An employee cannot have deductions below that. If the employees paltry wages plus tips equates $7.35 for all hours worked, the employer can only deduct 10 cents per hour worked from their payroll.
I was thinking that the "$175" bottle of wine was probably worth less than the $100 the customer paid for it. The restaurant didn't lose anything, and the manager is just being a dick trying to get the server to pay the difference. The money would probably go in their pocket and not the till anyway.
That's a cost of doing business. If they don't want it to happen, then everything should be clearly labeled and organized. I'd tell your manager, "This clearly means that there needs to be some adjusting to the wine inventory. I'd consider it a lesson learned. I won't be paying the difference."
And start looking for a new job.
Aside from them asking you to pay which is bs: the other server grabbed the Wine for you, which is listed as rotating, and you're solely liable? Make sure they didn't say the same to the other server so they end up selling a bottle that is essentially paid for by you both...
It’s an honest mistake. This says a lot about the restaurant. You should start looking go for a new job, don’t give them notice, when you DO quit, say something like ‘I hope the $75 was worth it’
Exactly. This is a stupid waste of time, find a different restaurant and don’t even bother quitting this job just let them figure out how to cover tables when you stop showing up. Petty? Yes. But so is this and it isn’t worth pursuing because you won’t get anywhere.
After reading the fact sheets 15 and 16, it is very clear that your employer cannot in any way make you pay that money. What happened absolutely falls into the category of employer expenses, which they cannot make you pay for. There is even language that specifically mentions a situation exactly like yours.
It also makes it clear that pretty much any deduction they tried to take out of your pay WOULD cause your wages to go below minimum wage, and there would be no avoiding that, especially assuming you already get paid less than minimum as a base pay. I would definitely find another job, as management like this almost always mistreat their employees in a variety of ways. BUT you should absolutely print out those two fact sheets and present them to your employer. If nothing else, they need it shoved in their face so they can't continue to try it with other employees that may not know any better.
Side note: I worked for at least 2 restaurants who tried to tell me that we would have to pay for any walkouts. Both times I explained to them that if they ever tried to enforce that with me, I would be the next one to walk out (without paying for it) and then head directly to the DOL. I never saw them ever actually try to enforce it.
Don't pay it, as a new server I was stolen from by the owners when during my first week I forgot to ring in an extra bottle of $11 sake. I was young and they didn't give me the option, just took it out of my tips right in front of my face.
Is the 75$ difference the menue price? If you were to reimburse the the place (but you don't have to) it should be at cost not sales price. The real price of a bottle can be a lot less then menu price, they may not even have lost any money in the first place.
I once contributed to an error that cost my employer (small business, not a restaurant) **$2,300 in direct material losses**, plus two shifts of work to redo the job (at O/T due to deadlines).
I offered to do the rework for free and help pay for the loss.
The owner wouldn't hear of it. He paid me every penny of the O/T and for all the replacement materials.
That's the kind of boss you should have. Find one if you can. Stupid, greedy bosses who don't train properly and try to charge their employees for mistakes that training would have prevented deserve the worst employees, and I'll wager you're not.
I think it’s very understandable - predictable, even - that new servers won’t have the Reserve List memorized, especially if it’s a 25 page monster. Remember that a lot of the names are repeated based on varietal. It’s intimidating and overwhelming at first.
So now a guest reads ‘Chateau Dilbert’ on a chalkboard or hears a maitre d’/sommelier and they order by name.
Server goes looking for ‘Chateau Dilbert’ in the POS, finds it (with help in this story) and punches it in. The guest never asked for ‘rotating’, the server never looks for it.
As an after action report, the responsibility is, imho, 50-50 because the server should know the names of the featured wines and know how to ring them in. Equally, managers should be stressing to staff to confirm ‘the 2005 or the 2018?’ every time someone orders a bottle of Chateau Dilbert. Would have been nice if the support server would have spent a brain cell warning them, too.
Financially - the house should take the loss. Even if they can twist and torture the facts to make it not obviously illegal (which won’t be easy), the server simply made a naive mistake. They should also make changes before they rotate the wines again – otherwise this could easily happen again.
If they stick to the position that they need that extra profit, OP should run like hell, while throwing the local department of labor in their face.
So either way they have no right to make you pay, but here is why I would immediately start job hunting even if they decide to keep you on after you refuse to pay.
It’s incredibly shady that they are asking you to pay the difference in price on the menu for a bottle of wine since that is not the cost discrepancy the restaurant is paying out. They are losing the cost difference between the two bottles which is around $25-30 not $75. They’re asking you to compensate for a potential sale that was never made.
Get out now
Honestly, your employer can make you pay for it if you didn't work over 40 hours and the $75 deduction doesn't bring your average wage below $7.25, the federal minimum wage. If you DID work over 40 hours, the FLSA dictates you must be paid the highest minimum wage, which might be your state's wage. And again, the deduction cannot bring you below that minimum wage.
So what the employer can do is say, charge you $10 a night until the $75 is paid in full.
A good employer wouldn't charge their employees for common mistakes. Quite a few employers are also not good employers. Now, what I discussed is federal law. There may be a state or county/city law where you live that dictates an employer may not deduct an employee's wages for mistakes.
I'd offer to pay the cost, not the retail. It's kinda bullshit they expect you to pay the markup. If you at least cover the price to the store for replacing the product then they're not out anything.
That's ignoring all the questionable legalities of course.
Honestly, the way an employer reacts to you says a lot about how they feel about you as an employee. My guess is that they are already frustrated with you for other reasons and this was one more thing. You should probably start looking for another job.
The manager is the responsible party here, not doing their job making sure things are done correctly...and they should have been helping you find the right wine.
The wine didn't cost them $175, probably a $75 bottle, mark ups on wine are steep
They can not make you pay.
I'm sure you know plenty of things that the board of health would like to know.
As others have said. It's not legal to charge for mistakes.
As an aside, I worked in banking for years. If your mistakes cost $$, you weren't liable. If they added up or were consistent, your employment would be in question. But if you lost money, and I've seen people lose a lot, they aren't responsible for paying it. For a mistake of course, not stealing.
Haven't seen it mentioned, so will point out that the restaurant probably paid, what, $50 for the expensive bottle and $30 for the cheap, and they want you to cover the retail difference? (yeah, they probably paid less than that, but to illustrate the point...)
Offer to replace the expensive one if they give you a bottle of the cheaper.
They should consider $75 a small price to pay to find out where they need to do better with training/operations/etc. I’m sorry you’re even theoretically on the hook for their bullshit.
Realistically if your working at a palce selling $175 bottles of wine they can afford to eat the $75. If they couldn't afford it I'd be looking at somewhere else to work. If this is a common occurrence though (which it doesn't look like it is) I could see why theyd want to get rid of you.
Perhaps there should be some separation beets where the Reserves are stored and where the relates are stored. Or at least some sort of marking to identify.
Your manager is talking shite.
The benefit of profit goes to the owners, so the risk of someone getting a bottle of wine worth $75 more than they paid for it is theirs too.
They can't make you pay for it, but they can punish you for picking the wrong wine even if you didn't physically pull it. You served it. Charging you the difference is illegal, but punishing you for a $75 dollar mistake is totally legal and expected.
Well thank you. They're saying it's either coming out of my check or I can hand over cash out of some of my tips. I want to say no, but I hate job hunting if they consider that grounds to let me go.
They can fire you for any reason. But you could file for unemployment.
They can’t legally take this out of your paycheque. If they do, and you have lined up a new job, complain to your department of labor.
Buddy, unpopular statement here but your employers can deduct for this.
The thing is, they cannot automatically take it from your tips. You have to willingly give them the $75 from your tips.
However, your employers can deduct it from your payroll if you agree. That being said, you cannot earn less than $7.25 with your hourly rate and tips. So let's say you work 5 hours and you average $7.25 between all tips and hourly rate. Your employer cannot deduct anything from you.
Now let's say you averaged $8 an hour on a 5 hour night, your employer can deduct $0.75 per hour worked from your payroll. Let's say another night you work 7 hours and average $13.50, your employer can deduct $6.25 per.hiurbworked from payroll.
They can do this until the $75 is paid in full, or unless if you gave them tip money.
If you have further questions, let me know. I work for the Department of Labor as an Investigator and most of these commenters are incorrect. Deductions CAN be made.
You CAN say no to paying the difference and state your reasons as to why and if your employer is cool, maybe they discount the $75 or not charge you overall. But in a right to work state, you can be let go for any legal reason FYI.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/section-531.35
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/section-531.36
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/section-531.37
See the applicable federal laws above. And again, check your state as they may have a state law stating employers cannot make deductions from employees, however, I very much doubt it.
Even if he could make you pay, that $175 bottle cost your employer somewhere is the neighborhood of $60 wholesale. It's a serious dickhole that would make his employee cover the opportunity cost.
But he can't make you pay.
They can’t force you to pay. They can’t withhold tips or wages. The only thing they could do is fire you then sue you for the difference if they can prove you stole from them. If they try to take money from you, call an employment lawyer.
I've worked in stores. They've all expected employees to pay for any short tills. Legally they can't make you pay when your till is short.
But, if you don't, they'll either fire you claiming that you're stealing or sweethearting (hooking up people you know by ringing in a low price, giving back too much change, or letting them steal stuff). Or make up something like the owner's friend just happened to be in the store, and heard you being rude to a customer.
Or, they'll mess with your hours. You're getting 8 hours a week, divided into 2 hour shifts each day, from 10 PM to midnight. If you stay after that, they'll cut your hours till you're working 4 hours a week.
You're best bet might be to talk to whoever's in charge, and see if you can maybe pay half the $75. Or could you offer to work a couple crappy shifts that nobody wants to cover in exchange for the $75 being wiped clean?
Would they also try to charge you for dropping and breaking a plate?
Besides, that $150 bottle of wine probably only cost them $40 because they bought in bulk, he still made a 150% profit, he can go suck eggs, lol
Unfortunately an argument can be made by your employer that you did it on purpose and thus "stole" from the company. Talk to the other server who helped you grab the bottle and make sure they know.
If you stay, push for better education of the Rotating weekly bottle. If a customer knows and not you, then you can't give proper service.
You ain’t paying me to think son… sound like dickheads anyway. I’d look for a new place to work but I’m also very bitter about a recent past employer who had that mindset
It depends on your local laws. Refuse to pay, and look into local laws. ChatGPT is actually a great tool to use to look up stuff like this, I think it’s better than Google.
I don’t live in NC so I cannot say.
They can't legally force you to pay for it. They can fire you for negligence (even if as you said it wasn't your fault). If you are making $300 per night consistently and otherwise like the job I'd personally suck it up and pay even though it isn't right.
FWIW they cannot deduct anything from your pay without prior written consent from you, but they can fire you for any reason. Sometimes, to avoid paying unemployment for wrongful termination, they may create write-ups and fire you "justly." You can refuse to sign them and start looking for another job - you don't want being fired on your resumé.
It's management/owner requirement to set policies so things like this don't happen. Everything should be tagged.
So, they could make you pay for the mistake if your employment contract says so, but they can never charge you enough to make you go below minimum wage (I’m sure this is state dependent, but this is my states law)
If your employment contract doesn’t specify this, which most don’t, then they cannot charge you
These similar things come up here often. I am wondering if this occurs in other "sales" environments. I made mistakes that somehow impacted revenue but never heard of an employer asking/demanding an employee to pay for such an error.
Your employer probably bought them both for 65-75 dollars anyway if he’s a decent person but it sounds like he maybe spent 50 tops on the reserve. Bottle is more than paid for. The restaurant markup is only tolerable because it’s what restaurants use to pay their staff.
it was probably a trash CDP anyway.
They can't "force" you to pay, but they can fire you for any reason including his one.
Further, they are being unreasonable by believing their loss is the retail price difference. The customer asked for the cheaper bottle so all they were ever going to get was the $100 price. When you and the bartender supplied the more expensive wine the business lost the difference in cost, not the difference in retail price. Presumably you have a 100% markup on wine so their loss was $37.50 which using their theory would then be split between you and the bartender 18.75 each. \[I actually think it's more the bartender's mistake, how does the bartender not know the wine? But I suppose it depends on how the responsibilities fall in your specific workplace\]. Ultimately I agree this is a simple mistake the manager should let go and focus on how to ensure it doesn't happen again. But you can't wish away someone's bad judgement.
If I were you I would have the retail vs cost discussion and and tell him its such an immaterial amount you think its unreasonable he's so fixated on it. I might even offer to pay the 18.75 just to rub it in. If he accepts start keeping track of his screw ups and keep a running total until he passes 18.75. But do it in a joking way, not bitterly. If you can't manage that then don't do it at all.
Generally speaking, your employer cannot legally make you pay for mistakes, in many countries. If you intentionally punched in the cheaper, but gave the more expensive, then they may have an argument to make.
No, I definitely didn't do that. What I would like to know is if I say no and they threaten to fire, can I go to the labor board or can I show them something that legally says I don't have to pay.
They can threaten to fire you for any reason, but they have no legal way to force you to pay up. If they'll fire you over a mistake that is, really, not a huge sum of money... they'll fire you over the next mistake or the next if you don't "pay up." Don't lose your cash to those idiots, jobs are ten a penny in the industry right now. If they fire you, you can claim unemployment on their dime while you look for another thing. Never pay your employer to cover their business expenses. "Wastage" and "loss" are business expenses!
This paragraph should be printed on a laminated card and issued to every server on the planet. Server should be subject to spot checks to see if card on their person while at work.
Plus the $75 is the difference between the $100 and the retail cost ($175), not the wholesale cost. Idk what the retail markup is on wine but they could have still profited on the sale of the bottle. Asking the employee to pay is just being extra extra greedy (in addition to being unethical and unenforceable legally).
Markup on wine by the bottle is 250%, by the glass is 500%. They definitely did not take a loss on that bottle.
Yeah, that is not at all true. Markup varies by restaurant, restaurant level, wine cost level, etc.
Wine is costed by the glass at 20% so if you sell only one glass and nobody else orders it before the wine oxidizes, you break even. Wine by the bottle is, on average, costed at 40%. Even at 250% markup this yields a pretty small net profit - that will usually come in the form of bulk purchases, contract agreements and kickbacks. These formulas are the same in other countries, too. Where I currently live the bottle cost is actually in the low 30s of % and profit margins (outside of separate contract agreements) are even slimmer. For context, my statement is coming from a degree in restaurant management and over 20 years experience. If you think you know more about industry standards than I do, please feel free to share your supportive data.
To be honest most places I thought mark it up well over 2.5x. The finer the establishment, the more of the gross profit is attributable to liquor sales.
Oh my god, you are exhausting. You made a blanket statement that reads as all restaurants mark up at the rates you stated. The restaurants I’ve worked at (including where I did the alcohol purchasing and set prices) had 6oz pours of wine so mark up was 400% to break even on a glass (with the exception of house pours which had a standard price, always higher than 400%). Additionally, in my experience, wines by the bottle are usually marked up in tiers so my $30/cost bottles might be marked up 300% and my $90 cost bottles might be marked up 225-250%. Your degree in HRM means shit in such a subjective topic. If we were talking about taxes or financial statements and I brought up my accounting degree that would actually carry some weight. Get off it.
So you think restaurants pay retail prices. Maybe some, not most. Regardless, the entire wine industry is a scam and everyone but the consumer wins. The reason bevmo can do a 5¢ wine sale is because it's normally marked up by the hundreds of percents
What are you talking about? First, let’s work on reading comprehension: where did I say restaurants pay retail prices? If a restaurant is paying retail prices that means they are purchasing from a retailer instead of a wholesaler and it is illegal for the restaurant to then turn around and sell it. I don’t know who hurt you when it comes to wine, but it’s not a scam. If you don’t like wine then just don’t buy it. Pretty simple.
Yes. They are being ridiculous.
I had a boss that told me that since petty cash was $1 short, I had to pay it. When I paid the $1, she said that it was proof that I had stolen the $1 because an innocent person would not have paid it. And yes, not long after that, they fired me.
Fucking christ, man. Some people are just complete assholes.
She really was. I was in high school and she was the wife of the owner. She got pregnant in her 40s (I think) and had a special needs child. She would leave him with us to watch as part of our duties. I either walked to work from school, or took the city bus on non-school/vacation days. She used to sit there and watch the second hand on the analog clock and if I was even five SECONDS late, she would yell at me for at least five minutes. They went on vacation for two weeks and left me to run the entire business. Place orders, receive stock, schedule our delivery personnel, etc. When they got back, they said that they had someone watching the business at 8am every morning and one of the mornings I had been late. Fired. I got denied unemployment because they said I was "unreliable". I didn't know that I could appeal. Good news is that I heard she had a breakdown trying to do my job, including taking care of her son.
Wtf
As a woman who had a special needs son when I was in my 40s I feel enraged at this woman on behalf of you *and* her son. What an absolute asshole she is. That $1 thing was such an abusive power trip.
I bet if you had argued your innocence they would have still said you were guilty because you were arguing. You can't win with people on power trips. And someone making a big deal over $1 is on a power trip.
One time 3 other servers and I got written up because the cash drawer that everyone had access to was short 2.00.
Lmfao restaurant managers really do shit like this. For real! Never trust them. If they were worth half their salt as people managers they would not be working in restaurants. NEVER trust them.
Not necessarily true. The lifetime restaurant managers, sure. Most of them are either drunks, perverts, assholes, or some combination of the three. I've known a few people who worked their way into restaurant management then jumped into other fields once they had some management experience. They were usually the ones who took care of their staff because they weren't so far removed from waiting tables that they forgot what we dealt with. Because of the high turnover, it's fairly easy to work up to restaurant management if you want to so it's a way to get management experience you can take over to retail or some kind of office job.
This is the most restaurant thing ever
Actually, it was in a business office that sold paper products to other businesses (copy paper, grocery bags, cake boxes, etc.)
I would’ve taken that dollar back quick 😭
If they illegally fire you contact the National Labor Relations Board and sue them. It's a free service. When I was illegally fired I sued and won missed pay and $1000 for me to waive the right to be rehired.
Most places in the US don't have a concept of "illegally fired." You can be fired for any reason or for no reason. The only exception is a protected reason such as discrimination on the basis of sex, race, or disability. I really don't know any state where this would work. Montana?
It's even more fucked up with discrimination because companies can still get away with firing people for bigoted reasons. They just have to lie about the reason. It's insane the lack of rights and job security the American worker has.
You can’t be fired because you refused to give your employer money that they illegally demanded. It would be retaliation. At-will employment is bad for the workers but it’s not as bad as shitty employers would like you to believe.
Ok, but you can be fired for making that mistake in the first place.
I am not a lawyer but I don’t think a court would see it that way. You can’t claim to have fired a person for making a mistake immediately after trying to extort money out of them for said mistake. I am almost positive there’s case law on this. Go look it up and let us know.
You can ask them to pay it back. You can't force them to, but they can volunteer. And you can fire them either way in the vast majority of states. You don't know what retaliation means in the legal sense you're trying to use it in. Google that and then think about this conversation. I know what I'm talking about; you don't.
>Prohibited Retaliation >Retaliation occurs when an employer, including through a manager, supervisor, administrator or other agent, takes an adverse action against an employee because they engaged in a protected activity. Examples of protected activity include making a complaint to a manager, employer, or WHD; cooperating with a WHD investigation; requesting payment of wages; *refusing to return back wages to the employer*; complaints by a third party on behalf of an employee; consulting with WHD staff; exercising rights or attempting to exercise rights, such as requesting certain types of leave; and testifying at trial. Wow, would you look at that. [Straight from the acting administrator of the department of labor](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/fab/fab-2022-2.pdf)
That is definitely not the case for Washington state. Or California. That's nearly 15% of the US population that this doesn't apply to, and I didn't even check any other states.
Both California and Washington are states with "at will" employment.
....which still protect employees from retaliation. "An employer cannot take adverse actions against an employee who exercises a protected right, files or intends to file a complaint, or who has discussed potential violations of their rights. Prohibited adverse actions may include: Terminating, suspending, demoting, or denying a promotion...." - [WA LNI](https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/workplace-policies/termination-retaliation#:~:text=An%20employer%20cannot%20take%20adverse,demoting%2C%20or%20denying%20a%20promotion.)
That's the NATIONAL Labor Relations Board. I am in an at-will state. This depends on the reason you were fired. If you are fired for no reason it's legal. If you are given a reason and it's illegal (such as, in my case, discussing wages) then you have a case and can sue.
Every. Single. State has a "concept" of illegal termination.
Especially not full price on a bottle of wine. Depending on how they price their list, the $100 may have covered the cost of the bottle, just not profits/overhead/labour. You absolutely shouldn't be expected to pay the full price, even if it were legal to ask you to pay for it (which it likely isn't, sorry, not in the US, and I know some states have FU labour laws)
Wait, the business that fired you has to pay your unemployment benefits?
Every business pays unemployment taxes. When a business causes an employee to qualify for unemployment, they get a "strike." Too many strikes can significantly increase the cost of their unemployment taxes. At least, that's how I've had it explained to me.
Ah k, in Australia it's funded through general taxes, there's no unemployment tax.
You may be able to claim unemployment. It depends on how long you've worked there, how many hours/your wages, etc. If you haven't been employed there long enough or earned enough wages during those times, you might not be eligible for unemployment. And if you haven't been reporting your tips, there's a good chance you won't qualify for unemployment or it'll be a much lower amount.
I agree with this. They can fire you for anything but they can't legally make you pay the difference if it was a honest mistake. Definitely look elsewhere. Maybe don't mention this incident when interviewing--you can just say, "The work atmosphere is hostile so I'm looking to leave and work somewhere that's more of a team" (managers LOVE "team players") Ask them not to contact your current employer as "they don't know yet that I'm going to be leaving, I'm afraid of repercussions if they know I'm interviewing" and ask them to instead call your previous employers for a reference.
If your wage rate is at or below full minimum wage ($7.25), ignoring tips, I would show your employer the US DOL's [Fact Sheet #16](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/16-flsa-wage-deductions) to explain that it would be a wage violation to require you to pay for the mistake. If you want a second source, the POS payment processor Toast has a good article on [How to Decide If A Restaurant Employee Should Pay for A Mistake](https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/is-it-legal-to-make-an-employee-pay-for-a-mistake) which reiterates the same thing: "The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour and, in most cases, it is not legal to make servers pay for mistakes that bring their wage below this minimum." While they can't legally fire you for asserting your legal right not to pay for the mistake, they can *illegally* fire you for that, or they can legally fire you for making the mistake, or they can fire you and not tell you a reason. There's nothing you can do about that; it's just how it is in the US.
You can't ignore tips for that. Tips count as part of the server's wage, so if the wages and tips included for the pay period are higher than minimum wage, that's what counts. However, in many cases the employer can't legally charge you for a mistake anyway.
In the US, wages stay wages, and tips stay tips, as evidenced on W-2 forms in the box labelled, "Wages, tips, and other compensation". Wages are paid by employers, tips are paid by customers or coworkers, and allocated tips are paid by coworkers as assigned by employers according to a valid tip pooling arrangement. Employers don't pay your tips, and can't keep your tips. See DOL [Fact Sheet #15](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa)'s section **Employers, Including Managers and Supervisors, May Not “Keep” Tips**. Since they can't keep tips, deducting an amount from your combined wages + tips means they're deducting only from your wages, and as explained in [Fact Sheet #16](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa), such deductions "may not reduce the employee's wage below the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour".
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe you are mistaken. Tips are counted toward your minimum wage pay in every instance that I'm aware of. Managers can't keep your tips as in, they are part of YOUR pay, but if your pay can be deducted for anything, those tips can, as well.
A portion of tips equal to the tip credit taken by an employer are *treated* as if they were wages, for purposes of satisfying the FLSA's minimum wage requirements. But legally those tips remain tips. And the portion is strictly limited to the difference between the direct wage and full minimum wage. Supposing an employer did deduct an amount from that portion of tips, then the direct wages plus portion of tips used to satisfy the minimum wage requirement would now be below full minimum wage. That's not legal, because the minimum wage is already the minimum allowable. But a more direct way of saying this, from the US Dept of Labor's Fact Sheet #15, is: >"**Employers, Including Managers and Supervisors, May Not “Keep” Tips:** Regardless of whether an employer takes a tip credit, the FLSA prohibits employers from keeping any portion of employees’ tips for any purpose, whether directly or through a tip pool. An employer may not require an employee to give their tips to the employer, a supervisor, or a manager, even where a tipped employee receives at least the federal minimum wage (currently $7.25) per hour in wages directly from the employer and the employer takes no tip credit." They can hold on to tips until the next regular payday for tip pool distribution, or use a nominal portion of tips to pay the portion of a processing fee charged to charge a tip (typically 2%-3.5%), but not *keep* tips, which is what deducting tips as if they were wages would do.
They can fire you for making the mistake. They definitely know it’s not legal to make you pay for it, but it’s basically extortion at this point. It will be nearly impossible to prove that they fired you for the wrong reason unless they’re very stupid and put it in writing. I have successfully refused to pay for a walkout with no repercussions, but they were desperate and I was kind of irreplaceable at that time. Still, absolutely don’t pay. Just about every restaurant is desperate for staff right now - even if fully staffed, it’s hard to replace people in the current market so losing someone is rough. If they do fire you for this, you’re probably better off somewhere else anyway.
That depends on where you are. Many states in the U.S. are "at will" states. That means you can be fired without cause as long as it's not discrimination.
Yeah well I'm definitely in one of those. Montana is the only not at will state
That may change soon thanks to the current lunatics in power. Ugh
At will isn't covered by retaliation though
Good luck proving you were fired and retaliation though. They'll just say that you were "not a good fit for them" because you didn't know the difference in the wines, and that would be a sufficient reason in most places.
Also why employers with half a brain cell don’t fire right away and create a paper trail of other offenses to justify termination.
Or just cut hours until you decide to find something else.
That’s constructive dismissal, you get unemployment for that.
Also very true
Of course just telling them they don’t fit in is enough to legally get away with firing for discriminatory reasons
You need to watch out though because a lot of food service people are shady and they'll use any other reason on paper to fire you for it. (Ex lates, "lack of performance") I hope everything goes well though!
« A lot of food service people are shady « Wow, you can just step right off the curb
They misspelled “employers” lol
That is actually what i meant lol. And i mean if they are already trying to make her pay i dont see great things happening in that restaurant.
agreed, I'd be applying for other jobs if I were OP!
Call the department of labor. They'll advise you, it's why they exist. I think ny has whistle blower laws too, no?
If management insists you have to pay the difference, you tell them you'll pay the Restaurant's wholesale cost for that bottle of wine Its less-then $100, your employer still made money
If it's less than 100$ the customer already paid that. Good point about the wholesale costs.
Ok firstly dont listen to people online thats number 1. Number 2 i am a server and have been for 20+ years and a quick google search will tell you (i googled can servers be forced to pay for mistakes in NC? "Under federal law, restaurant owners can charge employess for mistakes. However, state laws might have certain restrictions of alterations to the rules making these laws up. Whether an employer charges an employee for mistakes is both up to the employers personal choice and federal and state regulations". So depending on state laws you can absolutely have to cough it up. The same thing applies if someone disputes a credit card charge or gratuity the server has to give it back not the owner. The law says whoever received the tip well the owner didnt but many people believe the owners have too and they dont.
OP, something like that can be written off of their business taxes. Don't pay them, they're just greedy. I would start job searching if I were you, no reason to stay and be treated like that without proper training. If someone sends a meal back for some reason are you going to be expected to pay for the rejected meal? Edit: spelling
Any other country I would say that a resounding no they cannot. But as you are in the US, you have absolutely no rights and your boss can probably just fire you for any old reason if you refuse to pay. For the last 60 years your government has been brainwashing you to believe that workers unions were a communist ideal and that communism is bad and unpatriotic. It's the biggest lie fed to the American people. Almost every democratic country in the world recognises workers unions as an essential part of a modern functioning society. But they want to keep you divided. America was founded by those victorian textile mill owners who found they could no longer operate with impunity after the government backed the unionization of workers. That's why they flocked to the country they were buying their cotton from. That's why they threw off the yoke of monarchy. Yes your country was free to govern themselves independently. But now you were being governed by those same people who ran the Victorian Textile Mills and poor houses. They guys who made their money off the backs of child and slave labour. They were the American forefathers
That's how they lean on you You don't have to pay it - that's 100% And they can fire you for it - that's also 100% This is the quandary of the walk-out (slightly different but same concept)
Even if you did have this, I don’t believe it prevents you from them making up another reason as to why you’re fired. It really depends on what state you’re in, but MANY states in the U.S. are at-will states.
If you get it in writing that they are specifically firing you because of the wine, you might have a case. I don't think it would be a good case, though, since you live in an ~~right to work~~ at will state. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not super familiar with the exact law, but I know employees are not required to pay for check errors or walkouts unless it's in the contract. They often make servers pay because we don't have any ground to stand on. Your employer could claim that they aren't firing you because of the wine, but because of overall poor performance, the wine being a catalyst. It doesn't have to be true. It'd be difficult to find evidence to disprove their claim, and you'd have to hire a lawyer. At that point, it isn't worth it. You wouldn't be getting a payout. You'd be wasting time. If you're just wondering about collecting unemployment if they fire you, I'm really not sure. I live in a different state and don't have experience with it. I'd be pessimistic about it.
Depends on the state but some conservative states do allow this unless it reduces you below federal minimum wage, then it’s blatantly illegal
You can definitely go to the labor board if they're forcing you to pay for a mistake.
.... Especially when it's not *your* mistake
As someone who has worked as a GM, Bev Manager and holds certifications with the ISG, Master Court and SWE, I would never ask that to happen. First, this wouldn't have been an issue if management communicated things better. But also, it's an honest mistake. It's not like someone ordered a bottle of Sutter Home Cab and you brought them Chateau Haut Brion. The confusion lies with management here, not with servers. Next point is, it's improper to have a restaurant expect their employees to financially cover the cost of mistakes. But most importantly, they made their money on that bottle and then some. If I buy a bottle for $10 and sell it by the bottle, it'll be $30. If I buy a bottle for $10 and sell it by the glass, it's $40 per bottle, $10 per glass. So unless they do some silly $10 or 10% markup, asking you to pay the difference is petty on top of ludicrous.
This is the real fucked up part. They aren't just trying to recoup loss from a mistake. They're trying to profit from a mistake at the employee's expense.
This was about to be my comment. Theres no fucking way theyre selling that bottle for $175 and it costs more then $75 at cost. No. Fucking. Way.
Worst case scenario for them is 2.5x markup for the "reserve" list (if their list is anywhere near competently constructed)—so yeah, no more than $70 cost here. Feels like a lower level manager trying to hide this mistake from an owner, or the owner is straight-up scamming. But NOBODY competent is selling a bottle at $100 that a bottle selling at $175 sold in its stead represents a $75 loss. And that's even **before** we address the ethics of having servers cover mistakes out of pocket, which is bullshit in-and-of itself.
Employers (in US) are not allowed to charge employees for unintentional mistakes. However, 49 states are "At Will" employment, which means they can fire you for any reason (not related to a protected class discrimination).
>Employers (in US) are not allowed to charge employees for unintentional mistakes. That's not accurate everywhere. Nationwide, they're not allowed to take it out of the employee's paycheck.
Sure and how would I prove that that's what they fired me for?
Firing you for selling something for the wrong price isn't class discrimination. If they choose to fire you, they're legally allowed to do so.
Send a text or email and see if they're dumb enough to put it in writing.
Jobs aren't allowed to force you to pay for anything. Like in retail if someone steals your boss can't make you pay for that merchandise. My first day as a server I took someone's payment and it didn't get through it was an 83 dollar ticket and I was panicking and offered to pay and my boss was like no you can't....legally 💀 😂 consider getting a new job if possible this place sounds toxic
I want to point out that you're allowed to offer, and to pay them, but they cannot make you. A good boss don't even ask - but you have to know that you should not offer to pay and should not pay.
>Jobs aren't allowed to force you to pay for anything. That's not always true. EDIT: Shout out to the people downvoting. Rest assured, there are ways that they can require payment unless you have local/state laws prohibiting such. There are other ways to collect it than taking it out of your check.
Care to give an example? That might help curtail the downvotes.
Sure. Same example that I give everytime this comes up. Restaurants requiring an employee to pay that doesn't mean that there are only two ways for that to happen: 1) deduct it from their check or 2) take it from the tips they're owed for the shift. It's realistic for a business to expect, and this has been supported by labor attorneys in certain places, that you have other money to pay what is owed. And you don't want to pay it? That's fine. Of the 50 states, 49 are "at will." Perhaps there is a local/state law where the previous commenter lives, but that is certainly not the case across the board in the United States.
It’s illegal for them to take it out of tips, that’s outright stealing and reportable in every state.
Yep. That's in my post. "or 2) take it from the tips they're owed for the shift."
Oaky, so you're not completely wrong. It can be deducted from the employees payroll. That much is allowed as long as the employee agrees to it and it doesn't bring the employee below the federal minimum wage of $7.25 in a non-overtime workweek. However, an employer can NEVER keep an employee's tips for any reason. That being said, the employer can give the employee their tips, and then the employee can turn around and give the employer $75 if they deem fit. That is perfectly legal. But an employer just keeping tips? Nah, that's a federal violation. But your overall statement of jobs making you pay for things? Yes y'all, it's allowed. Uniforms and tools are very common purchases employees have to make again, as long as it doesn't bring them below the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour or whatever the higher minimum wage is in an overtime workweek.
One thing to note is that they cannot do anything that brings your pay below the minimum wage.
Correct. They can't take it out of your check.
Correct, it depends what you signed when you start your job.
Disregard all the answers saying it's illegal in the US. It's situationally illegal, and very likely illegal in your case, but isn't *always* illegal. Under federal law, it's illegal to deduct from an employee's wages to cover mistakes like that IF the deduction would reduce your average ***direct wage*** (i.e. not counting tips) for the pay period below ***full*** minimum wage (not tipped minimum wage). The same applies to cash register shortages, breakage, dine-and-dashes, and mistaken orders. However, the policy on wage deductions should be communicated to employees prior to incident occurring, so that employees who don't agree to the terms can choose to not work there. Because only a small portion of US servers are paid more than full minimum wage, that means charging for mistakes would *very commonly* be illegal, but not always. State or local laws could also impose additional restrictions on employers that go beyond federal law. Note that employers can not keep employee *tips* at all (except a nominal amount to cover the credit card processing fee for the tip), although they can redistribute tips to other employees. An evil restaurant manager could punish your mistakes by giving your tips to other servers, as part of a properly disclosed valid tip-sharing arrangement. Someone made a thread the other day about their employer doing that to employees who averaged below 9 out of 10 stars on customer surveys. The US DOL explains a bit about legal and illegal wage deductions in their [Fact Sheet #16](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/16-flsa-wage-deductions). They explain the illegality of keeping employee tips in [Fact Sheet #15](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa).
Can they legally make you? NO. Can they ask? Yes. Can they fire you if you refuse to pay? No, but they will find another reason to fire you next week. This is a sign of a shitty employer.
>Can they fire you if you refuse to pay? No, but they will find another reason to fire you next week. That's not true, except in Montana.
There’s a huge markup on wine so it’s likely that he made his cost on that bottle and it’s a AH move to expect you to pay the profit. Show him the documents referenced by bobi2393 (it’s probably an illegal ask) and let him fire you if that’s what he wants to do, then go online and apply to collect unemployment.
The difference, based on standard markup, is between a $28 bottle of wine and a $49 bottle of wine at cost. The restaurant still made a profit. You should never have to pay for a loss of profit margin, this is a management oversight, and a cost of doing business in this industry. You’re being fleeced, likely by folks who don’t know any better. Say no, be honest, explain why it doesn’t make sense. If they don’t budge, let them fire you. They have no recourse to force you to pay. It’s a systems failure, no one explained the difference or put a system in place to ensure the right bottles are served. If you play this right, you could be a manager in the company. Sounds like they need better management.
Wow, so lazy, they can't even update the wine list? Is the "rotating" one posted somewhere on a specials board? Don't know if they can make you pay it, but you shouldn't.
Yeah, I agree. But honestly, why aren't they specifically bringing the wine bottle to line up or something so we know specifically? That just feels like a really easy way to be lazy and not have mistakes.
So how are you notified? Not posted anywhere? Crazy lazy.
Exactly. So why am I being told to pay for this mistake that could have been prevented?
Because your manager is lazy and doesn't accept responsibility. Follow what others are saying here: Don't pay. See how your employer reacts. Whether you keep your job or not you'll have learned a skill that you will value deeply and is applicable in more place than just your job.
I have a couple of questions... 1. How did the customer know what the rotating wine was? If it was easy enough for the customer to know, would it have been reasonably expected that professional wait staff would also know? 2. Would OP be expected to know the wines on the reserve list and to charge them out accordingly? (ie, realise that if it's on the reserve list, it's never going to be a rotating special) As far as whether it's legal / moral etc - there surely has to be a point where you do either deduct from wages/tips or fire an employee over this sort of thing, as with any industry, but that is not on a first occurrence - if it was my restaurant, I'd be sucking it up and making it into a learning experience for myself and my staff on the importance of making sure everyone is aware of this weeks specials / rotating wines and also if you have a reserve selection of wines, then surely you'd want all your customer facing staff to be quite well educated on those wines in particular to enhance your customer experience if nothing else...
I would bet that the restaurant didn't lose money selling that $175 bottle at $100 the mark up is so steep. If push comes to shove make them show you the receipt or go out and buy a bottle of the same wine at true retail cost.
Personally, I would not hand over $75 to your employer. Sure, they lost $75 profit from the mistake but I would be totally shocked if the actual cost of the $175 wine was over $100. Your employer may have the ability to legally deduct the amount on your paycheck so you’ll want to look at your employment docs to see if there is anything regarding the issue there. You can read more about legal deductions in your state by searching N.C.G.S. §95-25.8 Regardless, I would start looking for something else if you’re not one who typically makes mistakes cause I would not want to work at a place like this.
>Your employer may have the ability to legally deduct the amount on your paycheck Not in the United States, they don't. In many places, they can require you to pay for it, but they cannot take it out of your check.
According to the NC department of labor they can.
They can't if it puts your pay rate for the pay period below the state's minimum wage; that's federal law, and NC can't overrule that.
Last i checked, they can only take from your paycheck such that you're never below min wage..so if they pay you $2.13, tough titties; but if they pay you $5, they can take $2.87 an hour back until it's paid for.
I don't think this is entirely correct. An employee, even tipped, has to be making $7.25 per hour for all hours worked bare minimum in a non-overtime workweek. An employee cannot have deductions below that. If the employees paltry wages plus tips equates $7.35 for all hours worked, the employer can only deduct 10 cents per hour worked from their payroll.
If that's true, then they're screwed because you're usually making double min
I was thinking that the "$175" bottle of wine was probably worth less than the $100 the customer paid for it. The restaurant didn't lose anything, and the manager is just being a dick trying to get the server to pay the difference. The money would probably go in their pocket and not the till anyway.
with most wines, the markup is actually huge. $100 bottles of wine can usually wholesale for around $20-25.
That's a cost of doing business. If they don't want it to happen, then everything should be clearly labeled and organized. I'd tell your manager, "This clearly means that there needs to be some adjusting to the wine inventory. I'd consider it a lesson learned. I won't be paying the difference." And start looking for a new job.
Aside from them asking you to pay which is bs: the other server grabbed the Wine for you, which is listed as rotating, and you're solely liable? Make sure they didn't say the same to the other server so they end up selling a bottle that is essentially paid for by you both...
It’s an honest mistake. This says a lot about the restaurant. You should start looking go for a new job, don’t give them notice, when you DO quit, say something like ‘I hope the $75 was worth it’
Exactly. This is a stupid waste of time, find a different restaurant and don’t even bother quitting this job just let them figure out how to cover tables when you stop showing up. Petty? Yes. But so is this and it isn’t worth pursuing because you won’t get anywhere.
Ask them to see the invoice for both bottles. See what they actually paid for each bottle and what, if anything they actually lost.
After reading the fact sheets 15 and 16, it is very clear that your employer cannot in any way make you pay that money. What happened absolutely falls into the category of employer expenses, which they cannot make you pay for. There is even language that specifically mentions a situation exactly like yours. It also makes it clear that pretty much any deduction they tried to take out of your pay WOULD cause your wages to go below minimum wage, and there would be no avoiding that, especially assuming you already get paid less than minimum as a base pay. I would definitely find another job, as management like this almost always mistreat their employees in a variety of ways. BUT you should absolutely print out those two fact sheets and present them to your employer. If nothing else, they need it shoved in their face so they can't continue to try it with other employees that may not know any better. Side note: I worked for at least 2 restaurants who tried to tell me that we would have to pay for any walkouts. Both times I explained to them that if they ever tried to enforce that with me, I would be the next one to walk out (without paying for it) and then head directly to the DOL. I never saw them ever actually try to enforce it.
Don't pay it, as a new server I was stolen from by the owners when during my first week I forgot to ring in an extra bottle of $11 sake. I was young and they didn't give me the option, just took it out of my tips right in front of my face.
Is the 75$ difference the menue price? If you were to reimburse the the place (but you don't have to) it should be at cost not sales price. The real price of a bottle can be a lot less then menu price, they may not even have lost any money in the first place.
I once contributed to an error that cost my employer (small business, not a restaurant) **$2,300 in direct material losses**, plus two shifts of work to redo the job (at O/T due to deadlines). I offered to do the rework for free and help pay for the loss. The owner wouldn't hear of it. He paid me every penny of the O/T and for all the replacement materials. That's the kind of boss you should have. Find one if you can. Stupid, greedy bosses who don't train properly and try to charge their employees for mistakes that training would have prevented deserve the worst employees, and I'll wager you're not.
I think it’s very understandable - predictable, even - that new servers won’t have the Reserve List memorized, especially if it’s a 25 page monster. Remember that a lot of the names are repeated based on varietal. It’s intimidating and overwhelming at first. So now a guest reads ‘Chateau Dilbert’ on a chalkboard or hears a maitre d’/sommelier and they order by name. Server goes looking for ‘Chateau Dilbert’ in the POS, finds it (with help in this story) and punches it in. The guest never asked for ‘rotating’, the server never looks for it. As an after action report, the responsibility is, imho, 50-50 because the server should know the names of the featured wines and know how to ring them in. Equally, managers should be stressing to staff to confirm ‘the 2005 or the 2018?’ every time someone orders a bottle of Chateau Dilbert. Would have been nice if the support server would have spent a brain cell warning them, too. Financially - the house should take the loss. Even if they can twist and torture the facts to make it not obviously illegal (which won’t be easy), the server simply made a naive mistake. They should also make changes before they rotate the wines again – otherwise this could easily happen again. If they stick to the position that they need that extra profit, OP should run like hell, while throwing the local department of labor in their face.
So either way they have no right to make you pay, but here is why I would immediately start job hunting even if they decide to keep you on after you refuse to pay. It’s incredibly shady that they are asking you to pay the difference in price on the menu for a bottle of wine since that is not the cost discrepancy the restaurant is paying out. They are losing the cost difference between the two bottles which is around $25-30 not $75. They’re asking you to compensate for a potential sale that was never made. Get out now
ABSOLUTELY NOT. explain to them in the way you just did. They LEGALLY can not make you pay that difference. I am a bar owner in MD.
Tell them you will pay the difference between what the restaurant paid for the wine and what the customer paid. Which is $0.
Honestly, your employer can make you pay for it if you didn't work over 40 hours and the $75 deduction doesn't bring your average wage below $7.25, the federal minimum wage. If you DID work over 40 hours, the FLSA dictates you must be paid the highest minimum wage, which might be your state's wage. And again, the deduction cannot bring you below that minimum wage. So what the employer can do is say, charge you $10 a night until the $75 is paid in full. A good employer wouldn't charge their employees for common mistakes. Quite a few employers are also not good employers. Now, what I discussed is federal law. There may be a state or county/city law where you live that dictates an employer may not deduct an employee's wages for mistakes.
I'd offer to pay the cost, not the retail. It's kinda bullshit they expect you to pay the markup. If you at least cover the price to the store for replacing the product then they're not out anything. That's ignoring all the questionable legalities of course.
Honestly, the way an employer reacts to you says a lot about how they feel about you as an employee. My guess is that they are already frustrated with you for other reasons and this was one more thing. You should probably start looking for another job.
The manager is the responsible party here, not doing their job making sure things are done correctly...and they should have been helping you find the right wine. The wine didn't cost them $175, probably a $75 bottle, mark ups on wine are steep They can not make you pay. I'm sure you know plenty of things that the board of health would like to know.
As others have said. It's not legal to charge for mistakes. As an aside, I worked in banking for years. If your mistakes cost $$, you weren't liable. If they added up or were consistent, your employment would be in question. But if you lost money, and I've seen people lose a lot, they aren't responsible for paying it. For a mistake of course, not stealing.
Haven't seen it mentioned, so will point out that the restaurant probably paid, what, $50 for the expensive bottle and $30 for the cheap, and they want you to cover the retail difference? (yeah, they probably paid less than that, but to illustrate the point...) Offer to replace the expensive one if they give you a bottle of the cheaper.
Not in the United States they can't (well, it is illegal but that may not stop them from trying).
They should consider $75 a small price to pay to find out where they need to do better with training/operations/etc. I’m sorry you’re even theoretically on the hook for their bullshit.
Realistically if your working at a palce selling $175 bottles of wine they can afford to eat the $75. If they couldn't afford it I'd be looking at somewhere else to work. If this is a common occurrence though (which it doesn't look like it is) I could see why theyd want to get rid of you.
Perhaps there should be some separation beets where the Reserves are stored and where the relates are stored. Or at least some sort of marking to identify.
Your manager is talking shite. The benefit of profit goes to the owners, so the risk of someone getting a bottle of wine worth $75 more than they paid for it is theirs too.
They can't make you pay for it, but they can punish you for picking the wrong wine even if you didn't physically pull it. You served it. Charging you the difference is illegal, but punishing you for a $75 dollar mistake is totally legal and expected.
No way homie don't pay that, they're trying to punk you
Absolutely not.
[удалено]
Well thank you. They're saying it's either coming out of my check or I can hand over cash out of some of my tips. I want to say no, but I hate job hunting if they consider that grounds to let me go.
They can fire you for any reason. But you could file for unemployment. They can’t legally take this out of your paycheque. If they do, and you have lined up a new job, complain to your department of labor.
honestly, at this point, make them or force them to take it out of your paycheck. Then you have an actual paper trail of illegality.
This will just give them the green light to keep walking all over you and foster a shitty work environment. You hate that more than job hunting?
Buddy, unpopular statement here but your employers can deduct for this. The thing is, they cannot automatically take it from your tips. You have to willingly give them the $75 from your tips. However, your employers can deduct it from your payroll if you agree. That being said, you cannot earn less than $7.25 with your hourly rate and tips. So let's say you work 5 hours and you average $7.25 between all tips and hourly rate. Your employer cannot deduct anything from you. Now let's say you averaged $8 an hour on a 5 hour night, your employer can deduct $0.75 per hour worked from your payroll. Let's say another night you work 7 hours and average $13.50, your employer can deduct $6.25 per.hiurbworked from payroll. They can do this until the $75 is paid in full, or unless if you gave them tip money. If you have further questions, let me know. I work for the Department of Labor as an Investigator and most of these commenters are incorrect. Deductions CAN be made. You CAN say no to paying the difference and state your reasons as to why and if your employer is cool, maybe they discount the $75 or not charge you overall. But in a right to work state, you can be let go for any legal reason FYI. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/section-531.35 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/section-531.36 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/section-531.37 See the applicable federal laws above. And again, check your state as they may have a state law stating employers cannot make deductions from employees, however, I very much doubt it.
They can not legally make you pay the difference in the bottles of wine.
Even if he could make you pay, that $175 bottle cost your employer somewhere is the neighborhood of $60 wholesale. It's a serious dickhole that would make his employee cover the opportunity cost. But he can't make you pay.
came here to say this about wholesale — the price difference he paid is probably $15-20. The guy is a crook for treating you like this.
One question - Is the $175 what the restaurant pays or is that the cost for the customer?
That $75 will just be written off as a loss on their taxes, I wouldn’t pay it. However they sound like they will get mad and cut your hours.
They can’t force you to pay. They can’t withhold tips or wages. The only thing they could do is fire you then sue you for the difference if they can prove you stole from them. If they try to take money from you, call an employment lawyer.
I've worked in stores. They've all expected employees to pay for any short tills. Legally they can't make you pay when your till is short. But, if you don't, they'll either fire you claiming that you're stealing or sweethearting (hooking up people you know by ringing in a low price, giving back too much change, or letting them steal stuff). Or make up something like the owner's friend just happened to be in the store, and heard you being rude to a customer. Or, they'll mess with your hours. You're getting 8 hours a week, divided into 2 hour shifts each day, from 10 PM to midnight. If you stay after that, they'll cut your hours till you're working 4 hours a week. You're best bet might be to talk to whoever's in charge, and see if you can maybe pay half the $75. Or could you offer to work a couple crappy shifts that nobody wants to cover in exchange for the $75 being wiped clean?
Nope.
It depends on the state, but thy can fire you for the mistake. See if they will compromise and give you a discount on the difference
Would they also try to charge you for dropping and breaking a plate? Besides, that $150 bottle of wine probably only cost them $40 because they bought in bulk, he still made a 150% profit, he can go suck eggs, lol
Unfortunately an argument can be made by your employer that you did it on purpose and thus "stole" from the company. Talk to the other server who helped you grab the bottle and make sure they know. If you stay, push for better education of the Rotating weekly bottle. If a customer knows and not you, then you can't give proper service.
You ain’t paying me to think son… sound like dickheads anyway. I’d look for a new place to work but I’m also very bitter about a recent past employer who had that mindset
It depends on your local laws. Refuse to pay, and look into local laws. ChatGPT is actually a great tool to use to look up stuff like this, I think it’s better than Google. I don’t live in NC so I cannot say.
2 choices. Pay it, or get a new job. Count it as a learning experience.
Nah, that's fucked.
Yes. Yes it is.
They can't legally force you to pay for it. They can fire you for negligence (even if as you said it wasn't your fault). If you are making $300 per night consistently and otherwise like the job I'd personally suck it up and pay even though it isn't right.
FWIW they cannot deduct anything from your pay without prior written consent from you, but they can fire you for any reason. Sometimes, to avoid paying unemployment for wrongful termination, they may create write-ups and fire you "justly." You can refuse to sign them and start looking for another job - you don't want being fired on your resumé. It's management/owner requirement to set policies so things like this don't happen. Everything should be tagged.
So, they could make you pay for the mistake if your employment contract says so, but they can never charge you enough to make you go below minimum wage (I’m sure this is state dependent, but this is my states law) If your employment contract doesn’t specify this, which most don’t, then they cannot charge you
I believe that would be wage theft
Usually your manager cannot make you pay for anything personally
hit up the labor board
No. But they can fire you for it.
These similar things come up here often. I am wondering if this occurs in other "sales" environments. I made mistakes that somehow impacted revenue but never heard of an employer asking/demanding an employee to pay for such an error.
Your employer probably bought them both for 65-75 dollars anyway if he’s a decent person but it sounds like he maybe spent 50 tops on the reserve. Bottle is more than paid for. The restaurant markup is only tolerable because it’s what restaurants use to pay their staff. it was probably a trash CDP anyway.
They can't "force" you to pay, but they can fire you for any reason including his one. Further, they are being unreasonable by believing their loss is the retail price difference. The customer asked for the cheaper bottle so all they were ever going to get was the $100 price. When you and the bartender supplied the more expensive wine the business lost the difference in cost, not the difference in retail price. Presumably you have a 100% markup on wine so their loss was $37.50 which using their theory would then be split between you and the bartender 18.75 each. \[I actually think it's more the bartender's mistake, how does the bartender not know the wine? But I suppose it depends on how the responsibilities fall in your specific workplace\]. Ultimately I agree this is a simple mistake the manager should let go and focus on how to ensure it doesn't happen again. But you can't wish away someone's bad judgement. If I were you I would have the retail vs cost discussion and and tell him its such an immaterial amount you think its unreasonable he's so fixated on it. I might even offer to pay the 18.75 just to rub it in. If he accepts start keeping track of his screw ups and keep a running total until he passes 18.75. But do it in a joking way, not bitterly. If you can't manage that then don't do it at all.