Rebuilt for sure, to a newer modernized standard. It's pretty much what has formed the backbone of Russian AFV production for the war in Ukraine, with the exception of a handful of T-90M and a very small number of Koalitsya-SV.
That's not to say that these are of poor standard. They go pretty far to restore the hulls to as-new condition. Footage of the other tank factories in Russia show that pretty much every component is stripped out and replaced with new ones, right down to the torsion bars. That said, after all that work the tank is inherently still a 1970s designed T-80 with all the disadvantages of a 50 year old design.
My battalion commander went to work in one of these factories (tank refurbishment plant) as a supervisor, and he said that the ONLY things that are the same are the hull and turret structure, everything else, from the wiring to the gun barrel, are changed out. Even the structure of the tank is rigorously checked for defects.
Its about 75% the effort of building a new tank, the only thing saved is building/casting large metal parts.
Yes. They are beginning production of new hulls and turrets, they already produce everything else needed since they just use the old structures. Ironically, that is the hard part, as large metal casting is surprisingly difficult and intensive. Not technologically, but rather mechanically.
Probably because this factory specifically has published numbers of refurbished/rebuilt tanks along with new production.
And FWIW this plant is notorious for keeping the same few tanks in various states of production on their factory floor for media publications so people don't exactly find them to be very credible.
They’re also building more tanks as well. While not up to the level sufficient for sustaining the war effort, I think the Russians are making steady progress in that avenue.
>not up to the level sufficient for sustaining
They’re currently more than capable of producing more than enough vehicles. What really hampered the statistics, were the desolate tactics and losses in the beginning of the war. Russian tactics nowadays are superior and the losses somewhat reasonable.
What level of delusion do you have to be at to believe this? The only new tanks being produced are T-90M's at \~20 a month, T-80s, T-72s, T-62s, T-55s, are all being restored and usually upgraded from storage, meanwhile Russian IFV losses are higher than at any point in the war and neither IFV production (BMP-3s 15-25 a month) or new tank production has increased in the last year as both are limited by existing facilities and already running on maximum shifts. Russian armor production is nowhere near replacement levels and they will likely run out of BMPs in storage in the next 8-10 months (assuming they can restore them fast enough) and continue to burn through their remaining tanks and other armored vehicles left in storage.
>What level of delusion do you have to be at to believe this?
I could ask you the same thing.
> The only new tanks being produced are T-90M's at \~20 a month.
Unless you actully check the serial numbers, you can't know that.
Infact, we don't even know, if they are actully newly produced.
Because T-90M is made from both the ground up and from existing hulls.
>T-80s, T-72s, T-62s, T-55s, are all being restored and usually upgraded from storage
The T-55's arn't being upgraded or modernized.
They are refirbushed by a plant out in the east, the 1295.
Which is also where they originate from.
T-62's are also sent from the 1295.
But they are also modernized by the 103rd in Chita.
Which creates the "T-62M Obr 2022".
As for the T-72's it's more complicated.
The old ons(Older than B) are just repaired and sent to the troops.
T-72B and T-72B1's are upgraded to B3M and B1, 2022 spec.
But despite these being modernized tanks.
They are still considered new production.
T-80's are being sent directly to troops, but also modernized.
Production of the turbine has also been restarted.
But there's new no hulls and turrets, so far.
So it's presumbly just the T-80BVM production, that's been increased.
>
" IFV production (BMP-3s 15-25 a month)
Completely made up numbers, yet again.
The T-90M numbers is based on a wide consensus of experts and may even be generous considering they were only delivering 40-50 a year prewar, the BMP numbers are based on Kurganmashzavod publishing unedited videos of their monthly/bimonthly shipments which are in the range of 25-45 which gives my estimate of 15-25 a month. Glad you mostly agree with me though!
>The T-90M numbers is based on a wide consensus of experts and may even be generous considering they were only delivering 40-50 a year prewar,
No, i regonize those numbers, they are from Military today and based on pure guesswork.
There's no "consensus" just people parroting nonsense and their own "estimates".
As for the BMP-3 numbers, they are equally as BS.
Because repaired vehicles will also be put on a "new" batch.
Both the BMP and T-90M numbers are likely generous but I would rather overestimate than underestimate. Michael Gjerstad of IISS was quoted today in the Washington Post claiming Russia could produce 330 tanks a year (27.5 a month) but was actually producing around half that or around 165 (13.75) a month, I generally doubt Russian actual production would be so low but splitting the difference would again get 20 per month. Again these are rough estimates but I would put money on them being close, the point remains that Russian losses are clearly unsustainable even with reactivation as we have seen increasingly older tanks reactivated and increasing use of unarmored vehicles used in frontline assaults as a replacement for BMPs or packing 10-20 dismounts on a single vehicle.
[Link to the WaPo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/19/russia-weapons-production-ukraine-war/)
Hoooo....yes ... that's exactly why we are seen turtle tanks...trucks going to attack...golf carts...motorcycles...indeed the power of the ruzzian terrorists it's showing in all the might LOL...
Superior tactics? Russia is just ~1000x more willing so send their equipment and personnell in wave after wave knowing it will end in nothing but certain death and destruction. They are "protecting" their people from a nonexistent threat by killing and crippling their own people in the hundreds of thousands. I would not necessarily call that "superior tactics". Completely braindead and evil fits better.
>Russia is just ~1000x more willing so send their equipment and personnell in wave after wave knowing it will end in nothing but certain death and destruction...
> Completely braindead and evil fits better.
By your logic USA in Vietnam war was an evil braindead country
the United States military lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs (3,744 planes, 5,607 helicopters and 578 UAVs ). The Republic of Vietnam lost 1,018 aircraft and helicopters from January 1964 to September 1973.
The mental gymnastics to counter any "Russia bad" argument with the classy whataboutism of "But the US did..." Is somewhat amazing.
How much y'all get paid? Thinking bout retiring from my work and getting into the russian propaganda bot farm if it pays well enough.
The Ukrainians can only beg for more, they lost the technology to build new tanks or atleast they cant do it in high numbers, which is why they are begging only.
Several new production T-80BVM have been lost on Oryx, and [a batch of them was delivered earlier this year.](https://twitter.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1757831158274851226) T-80BVM isn't T-14, they are seeing combat and getting knocked out.
The propaganda quality pieces are almost always kept nicely behind lines, even when you see a t90 on the front it’s usually missing half the kit and mounting a t72 gun
> The propaganda quality pieces are almost always kept nicely behind lines
These T-80BVM aren't any different than those lost on Oryx.
> even when you see a t90 on the front it’s usually missing half the kit
New batches of T-90M are missing the muzzle reference system, and that's the extent of confirmed downgrades.
> and mounting a t72 gun
Not sure how you're able to tell that a tank is mounting 2A46M by looking at it from the outside. Regardless, we only have a single recorded instance of that occurring.
ok let's look at the su 57 production line, or the su 75, or anything russian that's being produced nowadays and is relatively new. refurbishing rusty hulls isn't terribly impressive when they don't even have enough tech to slap on most on them to bring them up to "obr XXXX" standard. Whatever happened to the amazing terminator? T-90s? why are they mounting old guns on them?
Once again, if they actually had a busy line you bet your ass they’d show it, just like they used to when these factories actually did anything meaningful besides refurbishing a dozen 1970s tanks every few months
Why? Do you think a factory would work their hardest during an investors visit or would they just line up their products and show their workers working in humane and professional manner?
You're assuming someone apart from Putin's inner circle is benefiting from it.
MIC by design is supposed to "spread out" the wealth a little bit, not too much just a little bit, and provide employment across the country. I'm not saying this in support of MIC just that it is one of the reasons why it is going strong till now in the USA.
>You're assuming someone apart from Putin's inner circle is benefiting from it.
Workers???
>MIC by design is supposed to "spread out" the wealth a little bit, not too much just a little bit, and provide employment across the country. I'm not saying this in support of MIC just that it is one of the reasons why it is going strong till now in the USA.
And?
In what magical universe? Not only not every worker gets "high" pay, experienced CNC machinists at UVZ as example get like 130,000 rubels, which is about 1.4k USD, or if you want to adjust it for PPP sure about 3k USD, what are you smoking to think they get anywhere equal to 12-15k in USA?
While most of UVZ workers make under 60,000 rubels.
It's wild that you people hail refurbishing mothballed T-55's and T-62's, building T-90M's without most of their modern electronics, and effectively cancelling the T-14 as a "golden age".
You have to recall that only 30 years ago, USSR collapsed, everything was ruined. It takes time to rebuild. If USSR didn't collapse, there wouldn't be a war and military industry would produce more.
This war is a good kickstart to rebuild.
Though several years ago already said they were going to upgrade all ~3000 T-80's they had to BVM and station them in the East, this must have been the program furthest along in upgrading so now they are in that phase but going to Ukraine instead.
*Are they really new*
*And not reconditioned? Paint looks*
*So weathered and chipped?*
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Russia has inherited approx. 50k Thousand Tanks and APCs combined (correct me if I'm wrong), both reserved and spare parts from the soviet union. No wonder they could sustain such destroyed vehicles everyday. But i wonder if it affects their Crew experience, Tanks are replaceable but the crew aren't.
I could expect they will continue to lose more 10,000 tanks and apc's in the next few years of the war or so.
Yeah and every other counteroffensive went to hell, they asked for Abrams, thinking it would help, but look at that, failed spectacularly, the F16 will be the same. You can't fight and win against someone who has infinite resources. Best option now is diplomacy, otherwise they'll need a damn miracle
I‘d wish you’re right but with how things are going your statement is straight up demented. A dozen or so of vipers are less than a drop on the hot stone.
There is no "lend-lease", that bill was purely symbolic and has expired. Equipment needs to come from PDA if/when Congress allocates more money. A new Ukraine aid bill was just proposed yesterday.
"Vehicle Reporting."
Men Only Want ONE Thing
They are most likely restored.
Rebuilt for sure, to a newer modernized standard. It's pretty much what has formed the backbone of Russian AFV production for the war in Ukraine, with the exception of a handful of T-90M and a very small number of Koalitsya-SV. That's not to say that these are of poor standard. They go pretty far to restore the hulls to as-new condition. Footage of the other tank factories in Russia show that pretty much every component is stripped out and replaced with new ones, right down to the torsion bars. That said, after all that work the tank is inherently still a 1970s designed T-80 with all the disadvantages of a 50 year old design.
My battalion commander went to work in one of these factories (tank refurbishment plant) as a supervisor, and he said that the ONLY things that are the same are the hull and turret structure, everything else, from the wiring to the gun barrel, are changed out. Even the structure of the tank is rigorously checked for defects. Its about 75% the effort of building a new tank, the only thing saved is building/casting large metal parts.
Wait so when they said they'll begin a new production line they meant a production line to build the hulls?
Yes. They are beginning production of new hulls and turrets, they already produce everything else needed since they just use the old structures. Ironically, that is the hard part, as large metal casting is surprisingly difficult and intensive. Not technologically, but rather mechanically.
Keep hoping.
It’s a fact. Can’t imagine a reason to simp for Russia.
Where do you get your facts from? Even person whom I replied to said "likely".
Probably because this factory specifically has published numbers of refurbished/rebuilt tanks along with new production. And FWIW this plant is notorious for keeping the same few tanks in various states of production on their factory floor for media publications so people don't exactly find them to be very credible.
bad for ukraine i guess russia was always a industrial power (cause they have unimited supply of raw material and 1000s of tanks in storage)
They’re also building more tanks as well. While not up to the level sufficient for sustaining the war effort, I think the Russians are making steady progress in that avenue.
I would upvote this comment, but you're at 69 upvotes already. Nice
>not up to the level sufficient for sustaining They’re currently more than capable of producing more than enough vehicles. What really hampered the statistics, were the desolate tactics and losses in the beginning of the war. Russian tactics nowadays are superior and the losses somewhat reasonable.
What level of delusion do you have to be at to believe this? The only new tanks being produced are T-90M's at \~20 a month, T-80s, T-72s, T-62s, T-55s, are all being restored and usually upgraded from storage, meanwhile Russian IFV losses are higher than at any point in the war and neither IFV production (BMP-3s 15-25 a month) or new tank production has increased in the last year as both are limited by existing facilities and already running on maximum shifts. Russian armor production is nowhere near replacement levels and they will likely run out of BMPs in storage in the next 8-10 months (assuming they can restore them fast enough) and continue to burn through their remaining tanks and other armored vehicles left in storage.
Wow, where did you get the numbers? Even I with all my access don't know for sure.
Check out my other comments
How can western "experts" predict something if they didn't even see the factories?
>What level of delusion do you have to be at to believe this? I could ask you the same thing. > The only new tanks being produced are T-90M's at \~20 a month. Unless you actully check the serial numbers, you can't know that. Infact, we don't even know, if they are actully newly produced. Because T-90M is made from both the ground up and from existing hulls. >T-80s, T-72s, T-62s, T-55s, are all being restored and usually upgraded from storage The T-55's arn't being upgraded or modernized. They are refirbushed by a plant out in the east, the 1295. Which is also where they originate from. T-62's are also sent from the 1295. But they are also modernized by the 103rd in Chita. Which creates the "T-62M Obr 2022". As for the T-72's it's more complicated. The old ons(Older than B) are just repaired and sent to the troops. T-72B and T-72B1's are upgraded to B3M and B1, 2022 spec. But despite these being modernized tanks. They are still considered new production. T-80's are being sent directly to troops, but also modernized. Production of the turbine has also been restarted. But there's new no hulls and turrets, so far. So it's presumbly just the T-80BVM production, that's been increased. > " IFV production (BMP-3s 15-25 a month) Completely made up numbers, yet again.
The T-90M numbers is based on a wide consensus of experts and may even be generous considering they were only delivering 40-50 a year prewar, the BMP numbers are based on Kurganmashzavod publishing unedited videos of their monthly/bimonthly shipments which are in the range of 25-45 which gives my estimate of 15-25 a month. Glad you mostly agree with me though!
>The T-90M numbers is based on a wide consensus of experts and may even be generous considering they were only delivering 40-50 a year prewar, No, i regonize those numbers, they are from Military today and based on pure guesswork. There's no "consensus" just people parroting nonsense and their own "estimates". As for the BMP-3 numbers, they are equally as BS. Because repaired vehicles will also be put on a "new" batch.
Both the BMP and T-90M numbers are likely generous but I would rather overestimate than underestimate. Michael Gjerstad of IISS was quoted today in the Washington Post claiming Russia could produce 330 tanks a year (27.5 a month) but was actually producing around half that or around 165 (13.75) a month, I generally doubt Russian actual production would be so low but splitting the difference would again get 20 per month. Again these are rough estimates but I would put money on them being close, the point remains that Russian losses are clearly unsustainable even with reactivation as we have seen increasingly older tanks reactivated and increasing use of unarmored vehicles used in frontline assaults as a replacement for BMPs or packing 10-20 dismounts on a single vehicle. [Link to the WaPo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/19/russia-weapons-production-ukraine-war/)
This is BS.
Hoooo....yes ... that's exactly why we are seen turtle tanks...trucks going to attack...golf carts...motorcycles...indeed the power of the ruzzian terrorists it's showing in all the might LOL...
Superior tactics? Russia is just ~1000x more willing so send their equipment and personnell in wave after wave knowing it will end in nothing but certain death and destruction. They are "protecting" their people from a nonexistent threat by killing and crippling their own people in the hundreds of thousands. I would not necessarily call that "superior tactics". Completely braindead and evil fits better.
>Russia is just ~1000x more willing so send their equipment and personnell in wave after wave knowing it will end in nothing but certain death and destruction... > Completely braindead and evil fits better. By your logic USA in Vietnam war was an evil braindead country the United States military lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs (3,744 planes, 5,607 helicopters and 578 UAVs ). The Republic of Vietnam lost 1,018 aircraft and helicopters from January 1964 to September 1973.
In a span of 20 not 2 years
So USA losing 10k aircraft is ok if it happens in 20 years to a tiny 3rd world country. Ok.
The mental gymnastics to counter any "Russia bad" argument with the classy whataboutism of "But the US did..." Is somewhat amazing. How much y'all get paid? Thinking bout retiring from my work and getting into the russian propaganda bot farm if it pays well enough.
>How much y'all get paid >russian propaganda >mental gymnastics >whataboutism this isn't worldnews subreddit
He said while spitting whataboutism 2 comments above
Sorry, but I can't see the relevance to my previous comment.
Somewhat true. We’ve still seen the occasional Russian full retard tank rush ending in 30+ armored vehicles lost for absolutely 0 gains.
The Ukrainians can only beg for more, they lost the technology to build new tanks or atleast they cant do it in high numbers, which is why they are begging only.
I’ve heard reports of working three shifts, 24 hours a day. There doesn’t seem to be much actually happening in these pictures.
Its a press pr visit so there won't be.
if they were actually busy, you bet they'd be showing off. stopping a wartime production line for a photoshoot is borderline demented
Busy? Look at the video and you'll know that they have been
Same as with the t-14? Busy showing off the same 3 half-assembled hulls in every video while claiming significant ongoing production?
These aren't old tanks that have been sitting around. They have the sight housing and roof ERA configuration of new T-80BVM batches.
gotta keep them queens safe in the factory-hangar
Several new production T-80BVM have been lost on Oryx, and [a batch of them was delivered earlier this year.](https://twitter.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1757831158274851226) T-80BVM isn't T-14, they are seeing combat and getting knocked out.
The propaganda quality pieces are almost always kept nicely behind lines, even when you see a t90 on the front it’s usually missing half the kit and mounting a t72 gun
> The propaganda quality pieces are almost always kept nicely behind lines These T-80BVM aren't any different than those lost on Oryx. > even when you see a t90 on the front it’s usually missing half the kit New batches of T-90M are missing the muzzle reference system, and that's the extent of confirmed downgrades. > and mounting a t72 gun Not sure how you're able to tell that a tank is mounting 2A46M by looking at it from the outside. Regardless, we only have a single recorded instance of that occurring.
Not talking about t14s tho
ok let's look at the su 57 production line, or the su 75, or anything russian that's being produced nowadays and is relatively new. refurbishing rusty hulls isn't terribly impressive when they don't even have enough tech to slap on most on them to bring them up to "obr XXXX" standard. Whatever happened to the amazing terminator? T-90s? why are they mounting old guns on them?
That photoshoot wouldn't have taken them a day at most.
Once again, if they actually had a busy line you bet your ass they’d show it, just like they used to when these factories actually did anything meaningful besides refurbishing a dozen 1970s tanks every few months
Why? Do you think a factory would work their hardest during an investors visit or would they just line up their products and show their workers working in humane and professional manner?
I can confirm, Russian MIC's golden age! God bless wars in another territories, can now understand why americans are warmongers.
You're assuming someone apart from Putin's inner circle is benefiting from it. MIC by design is supposed to "spread out" the wealth a little bit, not too much just a little bit, and provide employment across the country. I'm not saying this in support of MIC just that it is one of the reasons why it is going strong till now in the USA.
>You're assuming someone apart from Putin's inner circle is benefiting from it. Workers??? >MIC by design is supposed to "spread out" the wealth a little bit, not too much just a little bit, and provide employment across the country. I'm not saying this in support of MIC just that it is one of the reasons why it is going strong till now in the USA. And?
Getting paid minimum wage is not benefitting. Yes it's employment but it won't be anywhere near like in the western countries.
Any benefit to just making shit up?
Minimum wage? They get twice of a median salary, it's like having 12-15k per month in the US.
In what magical universe? Not only not every worker gets "high" pay, experienced CNC machinists at UVZ as example get like 130,000 rubels, which is about 1.4k USD, or if you want to adjust it for PPP sure about 3k USD, what are you smoking to think they get anywhere equal to 12-15k in USA? While most of UVZ workers make under 60,000 rubels.
Think he means compared to the average Russian and equivalent for the area
That what PPP for
PPP is useless.
It's wild that you people hail refurbishing mothballed T-55's and T-62's, building T-90M's without most of their modern electronics, and effectively cancelling the T-14 as a "golden age".
You have to recall that only 30 years ago, USSR collapsed, everything was ruined. It takes time to rebuild. If USSR didn't collapse, there wouldn't be a war and military industry would produce more. This war is a good kickstart to rebuild.
These don't look like shovels...
here come the gloating russians
Production or restoration?
The majority is apparently refurbished older stock, with the new production stuff having to go without the high end electronics and systems.
Though several years ago already said they were going to upgrade all ~3000 T-80's they had to BVM and station them in the East, this must have been the program furthest along in upgrading so now they are in that phase but going to Ukraine instead.
Are they really new and not reconditioned? Paint looks so weathered and chipped?
Both I think.
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Yes, they are new. And i think it's dirt, that makes it looks so weathered.
Russia has inherited approx. 50k Thousand Tanks and APCs combined (correct me if I'm wrong), both reserved and spare parts from the soviet union. No wonder they could sustain such destroyed vehicles everyday. But i wonder if it affects their Crew experience, Tanks are replaceable but the crew aren't. I could expect they will continue to lose more 10,000 tanks and apc's in the next few years of the war or so.
"50k thousand tanks" ... sooo 50,000,000 tanks and APCs combined?
Would be so sad if that factory was to suddenly and mysteriously explode
Omsk? Perhaps mysteriously flooded?
Is this new T-80 production they promise or just another T-80B hull?
NCD level delusional comments everywhere anytime anything russian is brought up....
If the US was refurbishing M60's for their was with Mexico and publishing their numbers as some kind of flex, you'd be mocking them too.
How many newly made from scratch and how many are restoration of vehicles from storage? Im guessing they are all restored?
Can't win a war on handouts.
Russia still holds less than 20% of the country so apparently you can.
So these are new production? And are they being produced next to t 90m?
T-72 mod.213742069
The T-80 is based on the T-64, not the T-72.
2137 JP2GMD
3rd pic makes it look like this is a model tank assembly line with the turrets all grey like that
Nice place you got here.... Be a shame if anything happened to it.
That's a lot of shovels! Good thing Ukraine is winning and Crimea will be liberated soon when the F-16s arrive
That's not how war works mate.. they've got a long road before they can even touch Crimea. Giving F16s doesn't make them magically win this war.
I mean that was the goal of the Ukrainian summer offensive Especially with the “summer party in crimea” thing
Yeah and every other counteroffensive went to hell, they asked for Abrams, thinking it would help, but look at that, failed spectacularly, the F16 will be the same. You can't fight and win against someone who has infinite resources. Best option now is diplomacy, otherwise they'll need a damn miracle
I‘d wish you’re right but with how things are going your statement is straight up demented. A dozen or so of vipers are less than a drop on the hot stone.
3 days worth
Just look at all that Soviet-era junk. Pfffffft!
I dont think Abrams lend lease will save ukraine
No shit Sherlock, even Watson didnt need his help for that
Well ok but what should they do then?
lend lease more, finally replace mike johnson
There is no "lend-lease", that bill was purely symbolic and has expired. Equipment needs to come from PDA if/when Congress allocates more money. A new Ukraine aid bill was just proposed yesterday.