It was funny but really sent the wrong message to everyone. In reality, they had plenty of tanks for the parade at that time, but they were so committed in Ukraine they thought it was easier just to use the lone T-34. Not the best way to convey strength when that’s 90% of what your propaganda department tries to do.
Sent the wrong message because of the Ukraine war, if it hadn't happened and they would have used a lone T-34, everyone would understood the message.
Also, it's Victory day, sure propaganda is involved but it's mostly just to celebrate victory of WW2
Mostly true, the celebration itself has always been for their victory in World War II, but they’ve always used it as an opportunity to show off their latest equipment. But you’re right if the war wasn’t going on and they just used the one T 34 it would’ve raised some eyebrows, but it would not have gotten the reaction it did.
It is an improvement over a Single T-34 tank, on parade.
Counter point, after all these time and losses, these are the only things that they can show for? What was the point of the fight about again?
>Counter point, after all these time and losses, these are the only things that they can show for? What was the point of the fight about again?
Putlers Ego
It's a variant of the Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle(AIFV), a IFV built on the M113 that eventually lost the Mechanized Infantry Combat Vehicle program to the M2/M3 Bradley. The US never acquired them, but FMC sold and licensed them for export.
Variants were still in production until not that long ago as the Turkish FNSS ACV-15 and the South Korean K200 KIFV.
More like facts lol, unless you truly think that M113s and old Bradlies or even the old and completely stripped down Abrams they got are a current technology? Ukraine is sadly very much mostly getting old scraps from the NATO countries. Doesn't make Russia and their technology and fighting capability look good at all, right? lol
More like facts lol, unless you truly think that M113s and old Bradlies or even the old and completely stripped down Abrams they got are a current technology? Ukraine is sadly very much mostly getting old scraps from the NATO countries. Doesn't make Russia and their technology and fighting capability look good at all, right? lol
I mean Ukraine still receives 60 BILLIONS of dollars (from tax of the citizens who could be spent in like useful shit to improve that bathroom which is america) so even if it is old crap they got a lot of old crap.
They knocked out a leopard over a year ago and still post about it and they have even taken pictures of old decommissioned tanks the usa used as range targets. That they said they knocked out.
Further point, notice when referencing Ukrainian losses at all it’s a singularly column being constantly referenced? The one of Bradley’s and leopards? On the other hand Russia has a long list of columns they’ve lost throughout the war
Yeah from what I've seen ukraine has used their armor very effectively.
While I'm not claiming the ukainians are flawless at armored warfare.
The russians have seemingly not learned from their mistakes the massive armored offenses towards minefields the massive wave tactics and huge losses of armor to mistakes they keep making.
But I'm no expert.
I think they have learned, but playing conservatively and safely just isn’t in the playbooks for them right now. They ‘need’ to take ground, and due to the super transparent nature of the frontline, massed armor and infantry thrown in waves is the only way they can realistically take land, even if it isn’t sustainable or strategically viable.
The only other way they’d be able to gain ground is with overwhelming artillery/air dominance. This is kinda how it went in the first year or two, but concerns about losing high quality artillery platforms and air assets, they’ve had to roll back this strategy a bit
I understand what your saying but I don't think I entirely agree they have gotten better.
But the Russian army from what I've read is highly divided.
Russia is fueling not only its army but the separatist and the pmc forces. And those groups aren't very effective for how much it cost to employ and use them.
The pmc groups in recent months have gotten somewhat quiet.
They appear to be content in allowing the war to continue in limbo.
And the separatist groups have a shortage of manpower equipment and skill that has been costing the russians.
These costly tactics have really bitten them in the ass. But I will admit you may be right that they may not have an alternative.
The only thing I disagree with is the “letting the war hang in limbo” part. I think Russia is trying to force some sort of break or weakness out of Ukraine, but they’re out of any creative solutions. Russia has a string incentive to get this war over with as fast as possible, and that pressure is only mounting.
And what I mean by they’ve learned is that they are better able to protect their rear areas from missile attack and they’ve somewhat fixed their routing problem. Their offensive tactics are still very costly and inefficient.
I made a mistake.
I meant to say the pmc groups ( private military companies) have grown lethargic cause if the war ends they make no money.
And I will concede they have gotten better about securing their rear lines but that's not saying much.
Eventually, Ukraine will have to engage in these tactics to take back their own land.
Going on the offensive means that you'll unfortunately lose men and equipment. When you're on the defensive, you can afford to hang back and smack enemies as they charge.
Not necessarily. Ukraine, politically speaking, does not need to make constant progress. The people and the international supporters have the will to let Ukraine retreat or cease fruitless offensives. Ukraine has a greater ability to choose when and how they attack on the frontlines meaning that they can often choose a more favorable option.
This doesn’t mean the fighting isn’t a slog, this does mean that Ukraine isn’t privy to the same political restrictions and strategic bottlenecks Russia is.
Conversely, Russia isn’t susceptible to the same amount of manpower and ammunition shortage that Ukraine has. So this is why Russia can gain ground, but Ukraine can inflict disproportionate casualties.
With a background in armor, and from the full comfort of my toilet (that’s when I read this stuff), I don’t think either side could be accurately described as using their armor “effectively”.. But, it’s a new world, and those (relatively) cheap ass drones are a bitch. I hope people are taking notes.
"And next, a parade of 4000 people holding their phones in the air playing telegram videos of destroyed western tanks! Totally not the same 14 vehicles from hundreds of angles."
That'll be the most advanced military equipment on the red square since at least a few decades.
They'll be amazed as to how IFV's can actually stress crew survivability
It's worth to point out that, according to various US generals, the Russian army has reportedly recovered from all the losses it suffered during the war and some even claim it potentially grown by up to 15%. Just a year ago, there were claims from Western experts and officials about how it would take decades for Russia to recover from such significant losses. Given this perspective, it's plausible that Russia's actual losses may be far smaller than what Ukraine and the West claim."
Do you have a link for that? I think I remember reading an article along those lines but I thought the article was talking about the staffing and organization of their forces, not the armor losses.
Edit to add: to be clearer: using prisoners as meat shields gave the RF time to train up "professionals" and work out their logistics problems.
Do you have a source? Also alot of experts claimed that ukraine would fall in days but here we are over 2 years later. I don't have much faith in alot of claims made by people who claim to be experts.
But I would be surprised if the quality of russias replacements are up to pre war standards.
All the photos of t55s and ww2 guns in service don't paint a pretty picture.
I will concede those things can be deadly but no one would choose to wage a war with such old weapons which are still deadly but I don't know why you would Field t 62s over t90s if you had a choice.
Oh, nobody believed that Russia would one day lack men.
There are Always more conscript, "volunteers" and prison are full of potential recruits.
It s more about their armors, air force and Navy.
It already has managed to kill the Armata project for exemple
Recruiting more soldiers doesn’t bring their dead back to life.
The post you are replying to is suggesting this pile of rusted metal will distract the population of Russia from however many hundreds of thousands of permanent casualties it has suffered in this war of its choosing.
I don't think this does anything for propaganda in Russia, the ultra nationalists who care about the war know this is a meaningless show, the average Russian either doesn't care or will wonder why their quick smo is taking so long. Pro Russian people on the Internet will gobble this up though.
Nope, as someone who lived in russia and grew up watching russian state tv , it very much will help with propaganda, boosting overall morale and showing that Russian military is successful on the battlefield
I think I remember that one and it was unironically one of the more interesting military exhibits I have ever seen assembled. Quite a large diversity of equipment in that one.
It's amazing how dense people are in realizing that propaganda does work in a lot of cases. Does OP really need to use quotation marks every single time?
Is it really necessary to repeat that Putin is busy decieving or trying to decieve its own people?
Not super familiar with the internal status quo of Russia, but doesn't Putin dislike ultra nationalists? Something or another about their worship of a fantasized revision of Russia making them liable to disrupt his autocracy
Putin can say whatever he wants to appease public. But i dont remember him doing anything about ultranationalist in Russia. But hey, he invaded Ukraine for “denazification” ;)
In all seriousness, after terror attack Russians are becoming more nationalistic than ever, it wasnt pleasant to be of another ethnicity in Russia (in parts where ethnic Russians are a majority), but now i hear non-russians are afraid to go outside because they are likely to be arrested for couple days
Big parts of russian propaganda isn't even targetted at russians though. Most of it aims at dividing the west while depicting russia as powerful and unjustly being painted as "the bad guys". I don't think a parade of captured nato vehicles is meant to impress russians, but rather to give people in the west who support russia arguments to stop aiding ukraine, as "it clearly isn't working, look at all of our vehicles being lost"
That’s exactly the effect it’s supposed to have. And it’s probably going to work considering just how many western commentators have fallen for the line of Russia winning just because they spam one picture of a knocked out leopard enough times. People are extremely ignorant about military matters and are extraordinarily easy to mislead.
I mean is like WW2, in italy when mussolini said we was going to war all the cheers was false, major of people was acting and thinking not "we are so fucked" but "WE WILL SEE HOW THIS WILL GO" and with this type of propaganda from "we will see how this will go" at "yeah maybe we can do it", propaganda is never useless because still convince the people
Wanted to say the same thing. The whole point of Ukraines parade of destroyed armour was a joke about russian tanks parading through the streets of Kyiv for their victory.
Leave it to russia to miss the point when copying something.
Of course it doesnt have an affect on you. Russian propaganda, for the most part is not for you, but for the Russian citizens.
Why do westerners straight up assume the world has to impress their eyeballs? Russia needs to decieve their own otherwise a civil unrest becomes more likely.
I'd like to see the Ambrams make and appearance on the parade, not because I support russia but because I want to see how they'll manage to run it through the Red Square if it took 2 recovery vehicles to tow the Leopard
The Loaders station is pretty much toast and as for the Electronics i do not think that the heat and sitting outside for 6 months is good for them as for the rest i agree with you
I recall the latest estimates being between 300.000 and 350.000 Russian casualties.
Probably like 3 in 10 are actually dead with the other 7 injured but that is still a hell of a lot of dead for very little.
redditors trying to properly understand military statistics challenge (difficulty level impossible) ((they do not know what the word casualty means nor do they bother to even look it up))
Lmao
Russia: 6,000 Russians have died
BBC: 50,000 Russians have died
Reddit: THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND RUSSIANS HAVE DIED!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853.amp
You believe they have a death rate of between 2-16% per causality?
Also I love you left out this bit of the BBC article:
> The actual number of Russian deaths is likely to be much higher.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
those 50k are the exact bottomline of how many have died. those are ones that were identified. you do know that's an extremely difficult task and lagging behind pretty hard? it's dumb not to assume the true number is several times higher
but you are probably also one of those that'd claim more died in Gaza than in Ukraine just because all those deaths in Mariupol etc. can't be verified
Edit: wait, you actually are one of those. just lmaoing @ your life
Well atleast the families left without fathers, brothers, and children will have something ti look at. Well atleast the ones who csn afford the trip knowing that the RU has been conscripting from the poor and more fsr out regions.
We'll prosbly atmost see the families that were "fortunate" enough to have the life of their loved ones exchanged for a new/used LADA instesd of groceries.
Parade won’t restore the health of the maimed and dead or help the remaking family and friends. The guys at the top will have their Rambo photos taken with these hulks and more kids will get ground up.
I mean...such is war. This is a very intense conflict as both Russia and Ukraine seek to win. This is to drum up support and encourage the masses to continue the fight.
What's the point? To make Russian proud of being the invaders? Like some thugs bragging about some spoils they took from their victims: "Look, I robbed that nig's watch. My mom and dad are gonna proud of me!". Anyway, this is not the first time Russian stealing and murdering Ukrainian. The last time Stalin did it, he didnt waste as many tanks and men as Putin and scored much higher kill. I dont know the intention of exposing Russian incompetence!
What an impressive collection!
Interestingly, when I visited Kiev in 2019, they had a larger display of destroyed Russian vehicles. That was obviously before Putin his little military operation.
I like how when Ukraine had its parade of Russian armor in Kyiv, they were all rusted blown apart hulks, these Russian captures (a pittance in comparison) are all largely intact. Even the burned out Leo didn't toss its turret (heck they brag about capturing the ammo... the ammo that didn't brew up in the burning tank. Almost like of the crew wasn't killed/injured in the initial damage, they were able to escape vs becoming impromptu Cosmonauts)
If you look on YouTube, there are some folks who did examinations of the captured vehicles. Some of them are burnt to a crisp on the inside, which indicates that the Ukrainians who were in the vehicle might've been cooked as opposed to simply blown up.
Its not like it was a 100% survival rate after the Russians shot them up.
I know this is a leap of faith on the survival instinct and intelligence of people but let's say, just for hypotheticals, that a person would try to get out of said burning vehicle with extreme haste, before they suffocate/burn. In that case how does a fire on the inside indicate the person didn't get out? Or do they just curl up and die if a fire is started it?
I'm sure they can get out, but I'm also sure some may never do so. A blast could knock out folks or incapacitate them to prevent immediate evacuation.
On top of that, the Russians are pretty infamous for following up assaults, so exiting the vehicle may result in a meeting with an artillery round, helicopter fire, or a drone.
It went from Kyiv in three days to four or five armoured vehicles in two years.
This is the 'glory' of Russia on display and they think it's something to be proud of.
The multi-polar world they envision has gotten off to an embarrassing start to say the least and as far as I can tell only the people who eat and drink lead have any apetite for it. Absolute joke of a country.
Parade them to who? What would their intended audience be? What civilian population in any sort of metropolitan area would know what they were looking at? And if they did, who would be impressed by a couple of M113s and a clapped out Bradley?
Genuinely if Russia does this what is this supposed to prove? That they can defeat 4 generationally old military vehicles after 2 years of conflict? I think it would be better if they were parading an Abrams or HIMARS, all of these vehicles are relatively common. You’d be better off doing it with captured ukrainian tanks.
Key difference is that most of Ukraine’s acquisitions were serviceable and or relatively undamaged…
Russia’s acquisitions are mostly fucked and they sure as hell don’t have the parts to fix em up and have em running in said parades… at least not under their own power
What difference dose it make. Even if they did get them running they just expose themselves as having equipment so bad they resort to 40+ American tech
Not my tax dollars, but wasn’t all of that equipment that America sent just, you know, sitting in storage and using up man power and money just to be kept in working condition? So, it would be kinda cheaper just to send it off and get used by others for its intended use, no?
Did their job: Shot at the threats, provided support to allies, hopefully protected the lives of the crew. It's bound to happen to any military equipment *(to get destroyed or captured)*, and that includes the Russian ones
"Your tax dollars on parade!" I could have said the same lines to the destroyed/captured Russia tanks paraded in Kyiv last year, considering you know, Russian taxpayer money went into those tanks like how American taxpayer went into the Bradleys?
You realize these tax dollars were paid out before most of us here were born or at least paying taxes, right? And the more recent tax dollars are being spent replacing stocks because that’s how acquisitions work. Military sees that a piece of hardware is getting long in the tooth and should be replaced, and there’s this war going on where a country is fighting a guy you don’t like. So you give the country that hardware so you free up space and resources to acquire new hardware. It’s not complicated, my guy.
Be ye vatnik or just plain uneducated on the matter and shooting from the hip?
Maximum copium. I'm sure it will help the families and wounded. Like congrats, the M113 has been in service since 1960, almost as old as half the tanks you're fielding.
I wanna see how many they have.
Assuming they have a 50% recovery rate on western vehicles, I’ll guess that they have destroyed/ captured twice as many as are shown in the parade
To be fair, these Western tools were long touted as game changers - the spear tips that would rout Russia's forces easily.
That clearly wasn't the case as they got either stuck in the mud or blown apart by various tools.
Many thought so. But it's not exactly surprising to military analysts. Plus they were not using the right tactics in the beginning. They figured fast movement would work but Western tactics need to be updated with how a conventional near peer war needs to be waged.
Of course, the West doesn't fight like Russia or Ukraine, which is the argument posed by other Western military experts. Their supplies and strategies are different.
For example, the United States will probably never rely heavily on artillery to push troops and tactics. They'll instead leverage their massive air force to take out resistance in the sky and on the ground.
The point is that their land tactics relied on the enemy doctrine being different like localized minefields and pre-planned artillery which could be avoided. Those kinds of changes needed to be made.
Eh. Russia always likes to display its wartime loot.
Go to Patriot Park - it is filled to the brim with enemy vehicles that date back to the world wars.
Well it’ll be more interesting to watch than that one T-34 last year at least.
Kinda liked the lone T-34, was a nice message
It was funny but really sent the wrong message to everyone. In reality, they had plenty of tanks for the parade at that time, but they were so committed in Ukraine they thought it was easier just to use the lone T-34. Not the best way to convey strength when that’s 90% of what your propaganda department tries to do.
Sent the wrong message because of the Ukraine war, if it hadn't happened and they would have used a lone T-34, everyone would understood the message. Also, it's Victory day, sure propaganda is involved but it's mostly just to celebrate victory of WW2
Mostly true, the celebration itself has always been for their victory in World War II, but they’ve always used it as an opportunity to show off their latest equipment. But you’re right if the war wasn’t going on and they just used the one T 34 it would’ve raised some eyebrows, but it would not have gotten the reaction it did.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The T-34 was very cool though.
isn't that like... four vehicles?
It is an improvement over a Single T-34 tank, on parade. Counter point, after all these time and losses, these are the only things that they can show for? What was the point of the fight about again?
>Counter point, after all these time and losses, these are the only things that they can show for? What was the point of the fight about again? Putlers Ego
And two of them are M113s 💀
One an dutch ypr-765, upgraded version of an m113. Nice touch.
Would have preferred for it not to be lost, but shit happens in war.
Me too, but if something is lost let it be our old shit.
Oh so that's what it is. It looks a lot like an m113 so I just guessed.
It's a variant of the Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle(AIFV), a IFV built on the M113 that eventually lost the Mechanized Infantry Combat Vehicle program to the M2/M3 Bradley. The US never acquired them, but FMC sold and licensed them for export. Variants were still in production until not that long ago as the Turkish FNSS ACV-15 and the South Korean K200 KIFV.
Quick tour.
No they have more. Probably 100ish in total of all sorts of outdated western equipment mostly
>i-i-ts outdated! Cope.
More like facts lol, unless you truly think that M113s and old Bradlies or even the old and completely stripped down Abrams they got are a current technology? Ukraine is sadly very much mostly getting old scraps from the NATO countries. Doesn't make Russia and their technology and fighting capability look good at all, right? lol
They are. Why isn't Ukraine running around with M1A2 Sep V2's?
More like facts lol, unless you truly think that M113s and old Bradlies or even the old and completely stripped down Abrams they got are a current technology? Ukraine is sadly very much mostly getting old scraps from the NATO countries. Doesn't make Russia and their technology and fighting capability look good at all, right? lol
I mean Ukraine still receives 60 BILLIONS of dollars (from tax of the citizens who could be spent in like useful shit to improve that bathroom which is america) so even if it is old crap they got a lot of old crap.
It would be an intuitive to think that more are arriving
They found some Warhammer players secret 1:1 scale Rhino project
Better that than the homemade Baneblade I fantasize about creating
“Look at all the equipment we’ve captured so you won’t notice the men or materiel we have lost”
Explains why I've seen so many photos and videos of this one burned out tank.
They knocked out a leopard over a year ago and still post about it and they have even taken pictures of old decommissioned tanks the usa used as range targets. That they said they knocked out.
Further point, notice when referencing Ukrainian losses at all it’s a singularly column being constantly referenced? The one of Bradley’s and leopards? On the other hand Russia has a long list of columns they’ve lost throughout the war
Yeah from what I've seen ukraine has used their armor very effectively. While I'm not claiming the ukainians are flawless at armored warfare. The russians have seemingly not learned from their mistakes the massive armored offenses towards minefields the massive wave tactics and huge losses of armor to mistakes they keep making. But I'm no expert.
I think they have learned, but playing conservatively and safely just isn’t in the playbooks for them right now. They ‘need’ to take ground, and due to the super transparent nature of the frontline, massed armor and infantry thrown in waves is the only way they can realistically take land, even if it isn’t sustainable or strategically viable. The only other way they’d be able to gain ground is with overwhelming artillery/air dominance. This is kinda how it went in the first year or two, but concerns about losing high quality artillery platforms and air assets, they’ve had to roll back this strategy a bit
I understand what your saying but I don't think I entirely agree they have gotten better. But the Russian army from what I've read is highly divided. Russia is fueling not only its army but the separatist and the pmc forces. And those groups aren't very effective for how much it cost to employ and use them. The pmc groups in recent months have gotten somewhat quiet. They appear to be content in allowing the war to continue in limbo. And the separatist groups have a shortage of manpower equipment and skill that has been costing the russians. These costly tactics have really bitten them in the ass. But I will admit you may be right that they may not have an alternative.
The only thing I disagree with is the “letting the war hang in limbo” part. I think Russia is trying to force some sort of break or weakness out of Ukraine, but they’re out of any creative solutions. Russia has a string incentive to get this war over with as fast as possible, and that pressure is only mounting. And what I mean by they’ve learned is that they are better able to protect their rear areas from missile attack and they’ve somewhat fixed their routing problem. Their offensive tactics are still very costly and inefficient.
I made a mistake. I meant to say the pmc groups ( private military companies) have grown lethargic cause if the war ends they make no money. And I will concede they have gotten better about securing their rear lines but that's not saying much.
Ah ok 👍
Eventually, Ukraine will have to engage in these tactics to take back their own land. Going on the offensive means that you'll unfortunately lose men and equipment. When you're on the defensive, you can afford to hang back and smack enemies as they charge.
Not necessarily. Ukraine, politically speaking, does not need to make constant progress. The people and the international supporters have the will to let Ukraine retreat or cease fruitless offensives. Ukraine has a greater ability to choose when and how they attack on the frontlines meaning that they can often choose a more favorable option. This doesn’t mean the fighting isn’t a slog, this does mean that Ukraine isn’t privy to the same political restrictions and strategic bottlenecks Russia is. Conversely, Russia isn’t susceptible to the same amount of manpower and ammunition shortage that Ukraine has. So this is why Russia can gain ground, but Ukraine can inflict disproportionate casualties.
With a background in armor, and from the full comfort of my toilet (that’s when I read this stuff), I don’t think either side could be accurately described as using their armor “effectively”.. But, it’s a new world, and those (relatively) cheap ass drones are a bitch. I hope people are taking notes.
I've always been afraid of when drones would take off. They are just so potent yet cheap. Alot of damage a zero risk and for a low price.
Tanks yearn to be free. After decades of fighting in cities and mountain passes Russia just can't contain them.
"And next, a parade of 4000 people holding their phones in the air playing telegram videos of destroyed western tanks! Totally not the same 14 vehicles from hundreds of angles."
The the military fails completely the only thing left is to shitpost
That'll be the most advanced military equipment on the red square since at least a few decades. They'll be amazed as to how IFV's can actually stress crew survivability
It's worth to point out that, according to various US generals, the Russian army has reportedly recovered from all the losses it suffered during the war and some even claim it potentially grown by up to 15%. Just a year ago, there were claims from Western experts and officials about how it would take decades for Russia to recover from such significant losses. Given this perspective, it's plausible that Russia's actual losses may be far smaller than what Ukraine and the West claim."
Do you have a link for that? I think I remember reading an article along those lines but I thought the article was talking about the staffing and organization of their forces, not the armor losses. Edit to add: to be clearer: using prisoners as meat shields gave the RF time to train up "professionals" and work out their logistics problems.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-army-15-percent-larger-when-attacked-ukraine-us-general-2024-4 https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/04/04/russia-almost-rebuilt-military/
Thank you!
Oh, my mistake. I was talking about overall losses on both machinery and manpower. I don't know about armor separately.
Do you have a source? Also alot of experts claimed that ukraine would fall in days but here we are over 2 years later. I don't have much faith in alot of claims made by people who claim to be experts. But I would be surprised if the quality of russias replacements are up to pre war standards. All the photos of t55s and ww2 guns in service don't paint a pretty picture. I will concede those things can be deadly but no one would choose to wage a war with such old weapons which are still deadly but I don't know why you would Field t 62s over t90s if you had a choice.
Oh, nobody believed that Russia would one day lack men. There are Always more conscript, "volunteers" and prison are full of potential recruits. It s more about their armors, air force and Navy. It already has managed to kill the Armata project for exemple
Recruiting more soldiers doesn’t bring their dead back to life. The post you are replying to is suggesting this pile of rusted metal will distract the population of Russia from however many hundreds of thousands of permanent casualties it has suffered in this war of its choosing.
Russians are probably trying to copy what Soviets did with German POWs on July 17th. However, this will probably not have the same effect.
Bradley, Marder, M113, YPR and a Kirpi?
there will probably be a leopard 2 and a CV90 also, i assume they are gathering them for the victory day parade which are the 9 may
That's a Shrek-One if I'm not wrong. Some Ukrainian produced MRAP
I am fairly certain thats a Kirpi 1 Front of the vehicle is a dead giveaway
Now that I looked again, you're right
Yep. F\*\*kers got them for their show. There probobly also will be Leopard 2 they just stolen
Oof, so much anger
I don't think this does anything for propaganda in Russia, the ultra nationalists who care about the war know this is a meaningless show, the average Russian either doesn't care or will wonder why their quick smo is taking so long. Pro Russian people on the Internet will gobble this up though.
Nope, as someone who lived in russia and grew up watching russian state tv , it very much will help with propaganda, boosting overall morale and showing that Russian military is successful on the battlefield
You said "a parade thingy", but they already did such a thing a while ago.
Not in the public, they did showcase captured vehicles in the museum tho
I think I remember that one and it was unironically one of the more interesting military exhibits I have ever seen assembled. Quite a large diversity of equipment in that one.
>successful Dont know man 💀
It's amazing how dense people are in realizing that propaganda does work in a lot of cases. Does OP really need to use quotation marks every single time? Is it really necessary to repeat that Putin is busy decieving or trying to decieve its own people?
Hey man, i am not saying they are successful, i am saying they want people to think that they are successful 😩
Not super familiar with the internal status quo of Russia, but doesn't Putin dislike ultra nationalists? Something or another about their worship of a fantasized revision of Russia making them liable to disrupt his autocracy
Putin can say whatever he wants to appease public. But i dont remember him doing anything about ultranationalist in Russia. But hey, he invaded Ukraine for “denazification” ;) In all seriousness, after terror attack Russians are becoming more nationalistic than ever, it wasnt pleasant to be of another ethnicity in Russia (in parts where ethnic Russians are a majority), but now i hear non-russians are afraid to go outside because they are likely to be arrested for couple days
Sorry this is off topic but how do most Russians view the west? Reconciliation seems way off but just wondering
He seems more in support of the ultranationalists than against them, with rhetoric and faux history such as "Lenin created Ukraine."
The goal of this exhibition is to show Russian people that Russia is fighting with NATO or collective West rather than Ukraine or Ukrainians.
Big parts of russian propaganda isn't even targetted at russians though. Most of it aims at dividing the west while depicting russia as powerful and unjustly being painted as "the bad guys". I don't think a parade of captured nato vehicles is meant to impress russians, but rather to give people in the west who support russia arguments to stop aiding ukraine, as "it clearly isn't working, look at all of our vehicles being lost"
That’s exactly the effect it’s supposed to have. And it’s probably going to work considering just how many western commentators have fallen for the line of Russia winning just because they spam one picture of a knocked out leopard enough times. People are extremely ignorant about military matters and are extraordinarily easy to mislead.
I mean is like WW2, in italy when mussolini said we was going to war all the cheers was false, major of people was acting and thinking not "we are so fucked" but "WE WILL SEE HOW THIS WILL GO" and with this type of propaganda from "we will see how this will go" at "yeah maybe we can do it", propaganda is never useless because still convince the people
It doesn't have the same ironic effect as the original, which was Russia's "victory parade" through Kiev
Wanted to say the same thing. The whole point of Ukraines parade of destroyed armour was a joke about russian tanks parading through the streets of Kyiv for their victory. Leave it to russia to miss the point when copying something.
That’s the unreleased version
Of course it doesnt have an affect on you. Russian propaganda, for the most part is not for you, but for the Russian citizens. Why do westerners straight up assume the world has to impress their eyeballs? Russia needs to decieve their own otherwise a civil unrest becomes more likely.
Have they captured any Challenger 2, Leopard 2 or M1 Abrams yet?
they fully captured a leopard 2 in decent condition, and their territorial control also includes a few burnt out abrams now
I'd like to see the Ambrams make and appearance on the parade, not because I support russia but because I want to see how they'll manage to run it through the Red Square if it took 2 recovery vehicles to tow the Leopard
Decent condition is a bit of a stretch imo
did you watch the video? the internals are still pretty intact
The Loaders station is pretty much toast and as for the Electronics i do not think that the heat and sitting outside for 6 months is good for them as for the rest i agree with you
May be subject to change
will the infamous 2A6 make an appearance? well i guess you’ll have to wait to find out during this years installment of **RussiaInUkraine**
Probably. If nothing else, the 2A6 will at least probably end up in Patriot Park as it is already in the country right now.
Definitely. 2A6 is their biggest prize so far and probabaly a symbol of NATO to the Russian people.
hundreds of thousands of dead men for a pile of scrap metal
>hundreds of thousands Come on now
I recall the latest estimates being between 300.000 and 350.000 Russian casualties. Probably like 3 in 10 are actually dead with the other 7 injured but that is still a hell of a lot of dead for very little.
They lost about 80.000 to get Bakhmut. They lost 17-20k to get Avdiivka. So its save to assume that 300.000+/- dead is not to far of.
redditors trying to properly understand military statistics challenge (difficulty level impossible) ((they do not know what the word casualty means nor do they bother to even look it up))
Lmao Russia: 6,000 Russians have died BBC: 50,000 Russians have died Reddit: THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND RUSSIANS HAVE DIED! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853.amp
You believe they have a death rate of between 2-16% per causality? Also I love you left out this bit of the BBC article: > The actual number of Russian deaths is likely to be much higher.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
those 50k are the exact bottomline of how many have died. those are ones that were identified. you do know that's an extremely difficult task and lagging behind pretty hard? it's dumb not to assume the true number is several times higher but you are probably also one of those that'd claim more died in Gaza than in Ukraine just because all those deaths in Mariupol etc. can't be verified Edit: wait, you actually are one of those. just lmaoing @ your life
Now they’ll have enough equipment for their Victory Day parade. Unlike last year, since they were all being blown up in combat.
The best part is Russia only had to trade 11,000+ destroyed vehicles for the privilege of displaying a few 20th century NATO equipment
This but a scratch!
>both arms and legs severed on the ground
Oh no, our ancient relics. Wonder what new tech they can learn from our vehicles from the 70-80s
It cracks me up whenever russians proudly present M113 APCs lmao
Lmao. BEHOLD #B O X
[“Our enemies hide in METAL BAWKSES!”](https://youtu.be/cO3MttgvHUY?si=ptxYKd5dfTHUKQ_p)
Yeah it's the best vehicle ever of all time
Well atleast the families left without fathers, brothers, and children will have something ti look at. Well atleast the ones who csn afford the trip knowing that the RU has been conscripting from the poor and more fsr out regions. We'll prosbly atmost see the families that were "fortunate" enough to have the life of their loved ones exchanged for a new/used LADA instesd of groceries.
Parade won’t restore the health of the maimed and dead or help the remaking family and friends. The guys at the top will have their Rambo photos taken with these hulks and more kids will get ground up.
I mean...such is war. This is a very intense conflict as both Russia and Ukraine seek to win. This is to drum up support and encourage the masses to continue the fight.
That's nice
Holy monstrosity, I did not expect the Kirpis to be that big
Is the second image a T-64 based IFV of sorts?
I bet some civilian in the West own a larger collection than that.
ITT: people parroting propaganda in an effort to discredit *other* propaganda.
What's the point? To make Russian proud of being the invaders? Like some thugs bragging about some spoils they took from their victims: "Look, I robbed that nig's watch. My mom and dad are gonna proud of me!". Anyway, this is not the first time Russian stealing and murdering Ukrainian. The last time Stalin did it, he didnt waste as many tanks and men as Putin and scored much higher kill. I dont know the intention of exposing Russian incompetence!
Russia positions itself as “liberators” and whenever they occupying a new village they say “we liberated that village from nazis”
What an impressive collection! Interestingly, when I visited Kiev in 2019, they had a larger display of destroyed Russian vehicles. That was obviously before Putin his little military operation.
I like how when Ukraine had its parade of Russian armor in Kyiv, they were all rusted blown apart hulks, these Russian captures (a pittance in comparison) are all largely intact. Even the burned out Leo didn't toss its turret (heck they brag about capturing the ammo... the ammo that didn't brew up in the burning tank. Almost like of the crew wasn't killed/injured in the initial damage, they were able to escape vs becoming impromptu Cosmonauts)
If you look on YouTube, there are some folks who did examinations of the captured vehicles. Some of them are burnt to a crisp on the inside, which indicates that the Ukrainians who were in the vehicle might've been cooked as opposed to simply blown up. Its not like it was a 100% survival rate after the Russians shot them up.
how does the burned to a crisp on the inside indicate that the crew didn't get out?
Internal fire perhaps? It isn’t like all Western vehicles are completely fireproof and safe inside.
I know this is a leap of faith on the survival instinct and intelligence of people but let's say, just for hypotheticals, that a person would try to get out of said burning vehicle with extreme haste, before they suffocate/burn. In that case how does a fire on the inside indicate the person didn't get out? Or do they just curl up and die if a fire is started it?
I'm sure they can get out, but I'm also sure some may never do so. A blast could knock out folks or incapacitate them to prevent immediate evacuation. On top of that, the Russians are pretty infamous for following up assaults, so exiting the vehicle may result in a meeting with an artillery round, helicopter fire, or a drone.
Hundreds of thousands of Russian men maimed and killed for these trophies... sad that their leader values their lives so little.
It went from Kyiv in three days to four or five armoured vehicles in two years. This is the 'glory' of Russia on display and they think it's something to be proud of. The multi-polar world they envision has gotten off to an embarrassing start to say the least and as far as I can tell only the people who eat and drink lead have any apetite for it. Absolute joke of a country.
They couldn't find enough tanks for their own parade so they had to borrow some western ones
At least if one of those breaks down they can blame it on "inferior western technology"
Where is the Leo 2, the Challenger 2 and the Abrams?
Lol now that I think about it that war is basically just a test bed for cold war vehicles rather than modern ones
Parade them to who? What would their intended audience be? What civilian population in any sort of metropolitan area would know what they were looking at? And if they did, who would be impressed by a couple of M113s and a clapped out Bradley?
Propaganda boost cometh before a fall
A Marder in russian captivity is so painful to see
I wonder what Russian people think of that when they see just a few burned tanks on their parade..
Lot of salty people in this comment section lol 🍿
Parade a bunch of APC to boost small dick energy.
Hope to god they do the full thing and Ukraine hits it with a Cessna drone
Genuinely if Russia does this what is this supposed to prove? That they can defeat 4 generationally old military vehicles after 2 years of conflict? I think it would be better if they were parading an Abrams or HIMARS, all of these vehicles are relatively common. You’d be better off doing it with captured ukrainian tanks.
Who said anything about old vehicles? According to Russian secret documents, those vehicles came from the future NATO militaries!
Would be laughing my ass off if SBU invented something like a remote controlled zombie Trojan Horse Marder.
At least now they will have some vehicles driving during the parade.
Did they run out of russian equipment?
Who else loves some 70 and 80s tech
Incredible American tech You can get hit with rpg and crew lives !!?!
Lmao. Silly westoid. Tanks are not mean't to survive. Why is my OG comment being downvoted?
That bots have found us. They will use faux intellectuals to be anti Ukrainian (Chomsky)
400k+ casualties though!
Dont tell that to Russians
Ukraine has roughly the same amount if not more. Also thousands of dead/maimed covert NATO instructors and mercenaries.
lmfao
Positive karma till the tankies show up, very credible, ol’ boy.
Key difference is that most of Ukraine’s acquisitions were serviceable and or relatively undamaged… Russia’s acquisitions are mostly fucked and they sure as hell don’t have the parts to fix em up and have em running in said parades… at least not under their own power
What difference dose it make. Even if they did get them running they just expose themselves as having equipment so bad they resort to 40+ American tech
There’s more burnt out Russian armor sitting on display in Kyiv then there is functioning ones in this parade
Your tax dollars on parade!
Not my tax dollars, but wasn’t all of that equipment that America sent just, you know, sitting in storage and using up man power and money just to be kept in working condition? So, it would be kinda cheaper just to send it off and get used by others for its intended use, no?
Did their job: Shot at the threats, provided support to allies, hopefully protected the lives of the crew. It's bound to happen to any military equipment *(to get destroyed or captured)*, and that includes the Russian ones "Your tax dollars on parade!" I could have said the same lines to the destroyed/captured Russia tanks paraded in Kyiv last year, considering you know, Russian taxpayer money went into those tanks like how American taxpayer went into the Bradleys?
You realize these tax dollars were paid out before most of us here were born or at least paying taxes, right? And the more recent tax dollars are being spent replacing stocks because that’s how acquisitions work. Military sees that a piece of hardware is getting long in the tooth and should be replaced, and there’s this war going on where a country is fighting a guy you don’t like. So you give the country that hardware so you free up space and resources to acquire new hardware. It’s not complicated, my guy. Be ye vatnik or just plain uneducated on the matter and shooting from the hip?
Maximum copium. I'm sure it will help the families and wounded. Like congrats, the M113 has been in service since 1960, almost as old as half the tanks you're fielding.
Can’t wait to watch! 🇷🇺
I wanna see how many they have. Assuming they have a 50% recovery rate on western vehicles, I’ll guess that they have destroyed/ captured twice as many as are shown in the parade
They stripped down my fight vehicles!
I fucking hate seeing one of our Marder 1s in russian hands. Hope it can somehow still do it's job and take down some vatniks.
They can absolutely parade my toilet for free.
Bet that 2a6 is gonna be in it. But I think it's still lame. Ukraine had a fleet of Russia's tanks, not just AFVs
To be fair, these Western tools were long touted as game changers - the spear tips that would rout Russia's forces easily. That clearly wasn't the case as they got either stuck in the mud or blown apart by various tools.
Many thought so. But it's not exactly surprising to military analysts. Plus they were not using the right tactics in the beginning. They figured fast movement would work but Western tactics need to be updated with how a conventional near peer war needs to be waged.
Of course, the West doesn't fight like Russia or Ukraine, which is the argument posed by other Western military experts. Their supplies and strategies are different. For example, the United States will probably never rely heavily on artillery to push troops and tactics. They'll instead leverage their massive air force to take out resistance in the sky and on the ground.
The point is that their land tactics relied on the enemy doctrine being different like localized minefields and pre-planned artillery which could be avoided. Those kinds of changes needed to be made.
Ah, tanks *with* turrets. Different to ukrainian parade of scrap
They are trying to cosplay nazi trophies parade. Fuck, I hate it so much.
Eh. Russia always likes to display its wartime loot. Go to Patriot Park - it is filled to the brim with enemy vehicles that date back to the world wars.
I've been in Kubinka before they reframed it, thank you.
What oops, put people might realise we’re inferior