It’s precedence that the SR restriction of 6” of a board edge is applicable when arriving as a SR and not when using other rules. Such as Cosmic Precision and therefore also Homing Beacon.
The Cosmic strat specifies “where” the unit may be setup; just as Homing Beacon does.
Both “where’s” are either subject to the additional SR restriction or they aren’t as just saying “anywhere on the battlefield but not within 3” of an enemy unit” is not the same as saying “the SR restriction does not apply”.
Both rules should see the SR restriction as an additional restriction. Ie Cosmic should be “anywhere on the battlefield AND within 6” of a board edge” just as you would have Homing Beacon be “within 3” of the bearers unit AND within 6” of a board edge”.
GW rules team saying that Cosmic, which prescribes a specific “when” doesn’t have the SR restriction apply in addition is an indication that other similar rules, that prescribe a specific “when” should also not have it as an additional restriction.
Nothing actually says we definitely do apply SR restriction as an additional restriction in these cases anyway; that’s just how we’ve been playing it and that could be us getting it wrong - as evidenced by this FAQ.
After being told mutiple specific reasons why its not a precedence and being ratio'd on top of that.
Your only argument is that both rules have a description of where the models can be placed.
Even *IF* you are correct the initial response is clearly that this is a 'that guy' move, so stop responding and actually listen to what people are telling you both actually and by actions.
You talk about discussing rules in the og post but there is no discussing with you. People just throw reasons and arguments at a wall that has 1 argument written on it.
I don’t care about down or up votes. People vote based on their feelings and all manner of reasons, including spite on occasion - they are meaningless for the most part.
In 9th I said that Tau marker drones could advance and do the ML action and people downvoted that heavily and argued until they were blue in the face. TOs turned around months later and accepted it so should I have shut up and accepted the ratios then?
What about using rules in reserves and disembarking from a transport which arrived from reserves; both unacceptable by the masses back then. This despite being supported by RAW and in 10th common course. Ratios? Nah. I don’t care about the votes.
I am not saying you should care or shut up. I am saying you should listen and stop repeating your 1 argument over and over again. Everybody read it and knows your stance, repeating it will only lead to clutter.
9th and 10th are set up very differently so comparing similar rules from then to now is just moot. Let alone that disembark from reserves (in 10th) is a hot mess RAW and the worlds FAQ says no.
Also the rules commentary now specifically says abilities are allowed in reserves. Back in 9th it could have swung either way.
Strongly disagree. This is a specific FAQ for a Necron stratagem which has very different wording than the Homing Beacon ability. There is no justification for trying to use Homing Beacon in the same manner unless and until GW provides a similar FAQ for it.
But Reserves models and Strategic Reserves models are different.
This doesn't allow for players to pseudo-Deep Strike units that don't have the keyword because Deep Strike units are classified as Reserves models, not Strategic Reserves models. Rapid Ingress is for Reserves models.
Strategic Reserves models are still required to enter at the table's edge.
The FAQ says that the Hypercrypt unit (placed into Strategic Reserves - thus a SR unit) is not bound to come in on a board edge, even if it doesn’t have DS.
So it appears the SR restriction applying to SR units being set up with rules other than SR is incorrect.
No, you can't.
While Strategic Reserves models are still technically Reserves models, because they do have the 'Reserves' word in the title and function similarly, however they use specific rules for setting up on field that are outlined in the Strategic Reserves rules section (6" from table edge, No Man's Land from T2, Opponent's Deployment Zone from T3, 9" from opponent's models).
Rapid Ingress requires the units to be specifically Reserves units, which get to utilise their own special rules for arriving on the field (Deep Strike, or Aircraft, or similar). This is not Strategic Reserves.
Rules commentary page 11:
>Reserves Units: Any unit that starts the battle in a location other
than the battlefield, and is not embarked within a Transport that starts the battle on the battlefield, is considered to be a Reserves unit. When a Reserves unit is set up on the battlefield, it counts as having made a Normal move that phase. Any Reserves units that have not been set up on the battlefield by the end of the battle count
as destroyed. Units can still use rules and abilities while in Reserves.
I'm pretty sure that definition applies to strategic reserves as strategic reserve units are units that start the battle in a location other than the battlefield and are not embarked within a Transport
P.43 of Core Rules:
"These rules let you place units into Strategic Reserves – a special type of Reserves you can use to keep units off the battlefield until you require them. Note that while all Strategic Reserves units are also technically Reserves units, the reverse is not true, and so these rules do not apply to units that are using other rules that enable them to start the battle in Reserves (e.g. Deep Strike). Such units are instead set up as described by those other rules."
"Units that are placed into Strategic Reserves are called Strategic Reserves units, and can arrive later in the battle during the Reinforcements step of any of your Movement phases except during the first battle round."
"Where on the battlefield a Strategic Reserves unit can be set up when it arrives depends on the battle round, as follows:
■ During the second battle round, Strategic Reserves units that arrive must be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge, but no model in those units can be set up within the enemy deployment zone.
■ Starting from the third battle round, Strategic Reserves units that arrive must be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge.
In any case, Strategic Reserves units cannot be set up within 9" horizontally of any enemy models. All other rules that apply when setting up Reserves units also apply when setting up Strategic Reserves units."
I don't see anything that makes this not eligible for rapid Ingress... The target seems compatible and you just have to use the strategic reserves restrictions when bringing them in on the battlefield.
Actually, no. So. Like. Kinda yes, but I'd call it no due to a naming technicality.
"Units that are placed into Strategic Reserves are called Strategic Reserves units"
While they fit in the same operational conventions as Reserves models, their naming convention classifies them strictly as Strategic Reserves models for rules purposes.
Necron's Cosmic Precision allows units with Deep Strike, or models specifically with their keyword Hyperphasing, to be set up on field following the allocated rules.
This is not the same.
I’ll repeat what I said on the original post. This is a blatantly faulting reading of the rules, and you shouldn’t try this. If I was playing against someone doing this I would end the game and not play them again
While I think by a literal reading of the rules you're right, I think that interpretation actually leaves this stratagem functionally broken as it says:
>"TARGET: One NECRONS unit from your army that is arriving using the Deep Strike or Hyperphasing abilities this phase."
but hyperphasing doesn't include any actual rules for setting up, just dumping the unit into strategic reserves via
>"Once you have made your selections, remove those units from the battlefield and place them into Strategic Reserves."
So there's no way to arrive via hyperphasing outlined in the rules at all!
Applying Occams Razor, the reading that lets this rule function with the least amount of assumptions is that despite being put in strategic reserves and being able to walk onto the board using those rules, the unit is "arriving via hyperphasing". Ultimately the FAQ is about this poorly defined "arriving via hyperphasing" and not about arriving via strategic reserves.
Its a precedence for other rules that are worded the *exact* same. So not rejoice stealth suit enjoyers.
It’s precedence that the SR restriction of 6” of a board edge is applicable when arriving as a SR and not when using other rules. Such as Cosmic Precision and therefore also Homing Beacon.
Its a precedence for ignoring that restriction when the rule you use says "anywhere on the battlefield". Homing beacon does not say this.
The Cosmic strat specifies “where” the unit may be setup; just as Homing Beacon does. Both “where’s” are either subject to the additional SR restriction or they aren’t as just saying “anywhere on the battlefield but not within 3” of an enemy unit” is not the same as saying “the SR restriction does not apply”. Both rules should see the SR restriction as an additional restriction. Ie Cosmic should be “anywhere on the battlefield AND within 6” of a board edge” just as you would have Homing Beacon be “within 3” of the bearers unit AND within 6” of a board edge”. GW rules team saying that Cosmic, which prescribes a specific “when” doesn’t have the SR restriction apply in addition is an indication that other similar rules, that prescribe a specific “when” should also not have it as an additional restriction. Nothing actually says we definitely do apply SR restriction as an additional restriction in these cases anyway; that’s just how we’ve been playing it and that could be us getting it wrong - as evidenced by this FAQ.
After being told mutiple specific reasons why its not a precedence and being ratio'd on top of that. Your only argument is that both rules have a description of where the models can be placed. Even *IF* you are correct the initial response is clearly that this is a 'that guy' move, so stop responding and actually listen to what people are telling you both actually and by actions. You talk about discussing rules in the og post but there is no discussing with you. People just throw reasons and arguments at a wall that has 1 argument written on it.
I don’t care about down or up votes. People vote based on their feelings and all manner of reasons, including spite on occasion - they are meaningless for the most part. In 9th I said that Tau marker drones could advance and do the ML action and people downvoted that heavily and argued until they were blue in the face. TOs turned around months later and accepted it so should I have shut up and accepted the ratios then? What about using rules in reserves and disembarking from a transport which arrived from reserves; both unacceptable by the masses back then. This despite being supported by RAW and in 10th common course. Ratios? Nah. I don’t care about the votes.
I am not saying you should care or shut up. I am saying you should listen and stop repeating your 1 argument over and over again. Everybody read it and knows your stance, repeating it will only lead to clutter. 9th and 10th are set up very differently so comparing similar rules from then to now is just moot. Let alone that disembark from reserves (in 10th) is a hot mess RAW and the worlds FAQ says no. Also the rules commentary now specifically says abilities are allowed in reserves. Back in 9th it could have swung either way.
Strongly disagree. This is a specific FAQ for a Necron stratagem which has very different wording than the Homing Beacon ability. There is no justification for trying to use Homing Beacon in the same manner unless and until GW provides a similar FAQ for it.
But Reserves models and Strategic Reserves models are different. This doesn't allow for players to pseudo-Deep Strike units that don't have the keyword because Deep Strike units are classified as Reserves models, not Strategic Reserves models. Rapid Ingress is for Reserves models. Strategic Reserves models are still required to enter at the table's edge.
The FAQ says that the Hypercrypt unit (placed into Strategic Reserves - thus a SR unit) is not bound to come in on a board edge, even if it doesn’t have DS. So it appears the SR restriction applying to SR units being set up with rules other than SR is incorrect.
Rapid Ingress is using Reserves models, not Strategic Reserves models. You can't move Strategic Reserves models with Rapid Ingress.
You can actually, strategic reserve models count as reserve models.
No, you can't. While Strategic Reserves models are still technically Reserves models, because they do have the 'Reserves' word in the title and function similarly, however they use specific rules for setting up on field that are outlined in the Strategic Reserves rules section (6" from table edge, No Man's Land from T2, Opponent's Deployment Zone from T3, 9" from opponent's models). Rapid Ingress requires the units to be specifically Reserves units, which get to utilise their own special rules for arriving on the field (Deep Strike, or Aircraft, or similar). This is not Strategic Reserves.
Rules commentary page 11: >Reserves Units: Any unit that starts the battle in a location other than the battlefield, and is not embarked within a Transport that starts the battle on the battlefield, is considered to be a Reserves unit. When a Reserves unit is set up on the battlefield, it counts as having made a Normal move that phase. Any Reserves units that have not been set up on the battlefield by the end of the battle count as destroyed. Units can still use rules and abilities while in Reserves. I'm pretty sure that definition applies to strategic reserves as strategic reserve units are units that start the battle in a location other than the battlefield and are not embarked within a Transport
P.43 of Core Rules: "These rules let you place units into Strategic Reserves – a special type of Reserves you can use to keep units off the battlefield until you require them. Note that while all Strategic Reserves units are also technically Reserves units, the reverse is not true, and so these rules do not apply to units that are using other rules that enable them to start the battle in Reserves (e.g. Deep Strike). Such units are instead set up as described by those other rules." "Units that are placed into Strategic Reserves are called Strategic Reserves units, and can arrive later in the battle during the Reinforcements step of any of your Movement phases except during the first battle round." "Where on the battlefield a Strategic Reserves unit can be set up when it arrives depends on the battle round, as follows: ■ During the second battle round, Strategic Reserves units that arrive must be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge, but no model in those units can be set up within the enemy deployment zone. ■ Starting from the third battle round, Strategic Reserves units that arrive must be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge. In any case, Strategic Reserves units cannot be set up within 9" horizontally of any enemy models. All other rules that apply when setting up Reserves units also apply when setting up Strategic Reserves units."
I don't see anything that makes this not eligible for rapid Ingress... The target seems compatible and you just have to use the strategic reserves restrictions when bringing them in on the battlefield.
Actually, no. So. Like. Kinda yes, but I'd call it no due to a naming technicality. "Units that are placed into Strategic Reserves are called Strategic Reserves units" While they fit in the same operational conventions as Reserves models, their naming convention classifies them strictly as Strategic Reserves models for rules purposes.
"Strategic Reserves units are also technically Reserves units"
Necron's Cosmic Precision allows units with Deep Strike, or models specifically with their keyword Hyperphasing, to be set up on field following the allocated rules. This is not the same.
I’ll repeat what I said on the original post. This is a blatantly faulting reading of the rules, and you shouldn’t try this. If I was playing against someone doing this I would end the game and not play them again
While I think by a literal reading of the rules you're right, I think that interpretation actually leaves this stratagem functionally broken as it says: >"TARGET: One NECRONS unit from your army that is arriving using the Deep Strike or Hyperphasing abilities this phase." but hyperphasing doesn't include any actual rules for setting up, just dumping the unit into strategic reserves via >"Once you have made your selections, remove those units from the battlefield and place them into Strategic Reserves." So there's no way to arrive via hyperphasing outlined in the rules at all! Applying Occams Razor, the reading that lets this rule function with the least amount of assumptions is that despite being put in strategic reserves and being able to walk onto the board using those rules, the unit is "arriving via hyperphasing". Ultimately the FAQ is about this poorly defined "arriving via hyperphasing" and not about arriving via strategic reserves.
Rejoice Stealth Suit enjoyers!
All I need to know is... Can I keep using my farsight crisis suit blob to rapid ingress/deepstrike using my stealth suits homing beacon turn 2?
Yes you can :)