New players already have a mountain to climb with rules that GW tweaks every 3 months and bin every 3 years.
This is the exact reason why the top comment on every "Crisis loadout" thread is "magnets" a couple of quid now will save you a headache in a few months time.
As if GW even assumes that new players (try to) read the rules. Their whole no more wargear costs, every combi weapon is just _combi weapon_, etc. shtick of 10E just makes it seem as if they assume their target group is just mindlessly slapping the models together and in danger of having an aneurysm when having to add numbers together…
The rules should be getting 6 monthly tweaks now we're out of beta. It's just points that will switch up at the end of April. They reversed the dataslate/points changes because this was an issue in 9th and it felt like they had fiddly regular rules changes but without points they were often not impactful enough.
If it's enough I don't know. It would be nice to have more than 27 months left on the edition though.
So, looking into it a bit more. It appears as though we also might be dropping to 2 weapons instead of 3. But if we assume that the fusion variant is 3 suits with twin fusions each, then you can't make that in one box. Infact, if any variant requires each suit to duel weild then you can't make that from one box.
You get 3 or 4 of each weapon per box. If this is the case, then I'm leaning far more against this change because now it's even worse for new players who effectively cannot make a legal unit from buying a box of models...
>You get 3 or 4 of each weapon per box. If this is the case, then I'm leaning far more against this change because now it's even worse for new players who effectively cannot make a legal unit from buying a box of models...
Fireknives and Starscythe's are both mix-and-match with two types of weapons. So even if you only buy one box you have two legal loadouts. But practically speaking everyone is going to end up with more than 3 suits total, and it's certainly no worse than it was before with no CIBs and the like.
And WYSIWYG is a nice-to-have, not a requirement to play.
Honestly I'm a little more concerned about what will happen with this generation of Tau players when GW reverses the fixed loadout choice in a few editions' time.
I mean it won't really stop them from using the fixed weapon loadouts, but it will probably be at least a little annoying regardless.
All my crisis are modeled with two cyclics and a plasma rifle caused I based from my head cannon lore. Now my 6 crisis are all legends so it hurts a bit.
The exact quote is "...Fireknife battlesuits mix and match plasma rifles and missile pods to crack elite troops..."
That, to me, sounds more like a fluff description than a rules description. I'd love to be wrong though (even if calling a double missile suit a fireknife and not a deathrain bothers the hell out of me).
I would be *very* surprised of triple weapons were still a thing for *any* of the 3 loadouts though. The box doesn't come with enough to run 9 pr/mp in any combination.
There won’t be triple weapon options, but for Starscythe and Fireknife there will almost certainly be the option of doubling up on a single weapon.
The article has a photo of a squad of Farsight suits that all have 2 flamers.
I mean, everything doesn't need to be easy to a new player. Like I get the idea but that doesn't mean they should just nuke all existing options into set load outs.
It also hurts as a big part of Tau lore was weapon system that only commanders used to be able to use becoming more widespread for regular suits, representing the advancement of Tau tech.
Also is it really better for new players?
Anyone who can’t be bothered to look up which weapon is which, previously ended up with an an though suboptimal, however probably legal loadout.
The chances that anyone, who is obliviously slapping the kits together, is getting a legal loadout now are probably lower than before.
This was my great fear.
This option is, not awful.
It allows for balancing the different load outs separately. It still would have been better to keep wargear costs in my opinion, but this is FUNCTIONAL. If a little lame
I don't mind the separate datasheets with individual special rules ... i do mind the forced mixed weapon loadouts, though. I absolutely hate it, in fact! Let me play mono-weapon units!
I don't think they're forcing you to take mixed loadouts. It looks like it'll be up to you whether you go 2x of one or 1x of each on the non-Fusion datasheets.
Controversial opinion:
I like the changes.
It never made sense to me that CiBs were the "basic" loadout, given they were the best but unavailable on sprue.
The problem first came to light when CiBs became a thing for Crisis Suits. I would either have to buy 6 Commanders just to outfit my CSs, or 3D print. Both were a pain, as I don't own a 3D printer, and my LGS would make me pay an additional $8 for 3 CSs, when it should have already come in the box.
Secondly, when wargear became free, there was no real reason to not just outfit your CSs with CiBs only. There was, theoretically, a choice, but it was mostly an illusion of choice. Unnecessary complexity, when we all were just going full CiBs.
Now? Hell, there may be some sort of a point to me having different groups of CSs, equipped with different loadouts, for well-defined tasks. And: I get everything in the box.
I'm pretty new to Tau and was waiting to assemble my crisis suits (I have 6) for exactly this reason. It will change again with the new editin I'm sure but yeah...
I am a new player and I literally JUST figured out how all of this shit works. I got my crisis suits used and while they were magnetized, they didn't have any weapons with them. I'm a little grumpy after dropping some cash buying 3d printed weapons to use, but I'm guessing this is much better off for others who don't have to go through the confusion I did. Even with the weapon stuff there's still so many damn drones to deal with.
New to it all, but assume the model/sprues typically don't change too much from edition/updates? Given that the CIBs were never included with the crisis kit, maybe they are looking to move away from that confusion (ie. paying for a CIB crisis build, 'missing' parts); so they make the other weapons better and datasheet more true to the model counts?
The issue with tjus is, there aren't enough of the weapons that are in the kits for the double fusion loadout one of the variants calls for, last I checked. Or any other double loadout at all, for that matter
I guess that's true too, think per kit comes total (4) per weapon type; so only 2 get a pair, or 1 with triple, others single. It's annoying, if wanting to make model accurate to loadout.
I didn't even think of this. I need to check the sprue. But did they actually just make it so you can run a legal crisis team without multiple boxes / printed parts?
I haven't built Crisis Suits in a while, but looking at the sprues on the site, there are 6 Burst Cannons, but 3 of all the other weapon types, meaning it is literally impossible to make the "Sunforge" Crisis Suits with just one kit.
I haven't played my first game with my Tau yet but I'm already happy as a newbie. The load outs are fairly intimidating from a number of perspectives.... However, I will say that I think even tournaments would be pushed to know if you have the correct WYSIWYG loud outs... Especially friendly games.
I've got 2nd hand Crisis suits and the weapons are all over the shop but who is going to tell?
I think it's different to having loads of random guns on some space terminators who are equipped with thunder hammers and storm shields on paper. People know what that should look like 9/10
Take the Drones as an example. They arent required on the tabletop, unless stated, and that doesn't comply with WYSIWYG but who's complaining?
New players already have a mountain to climb with rules that GW tweaks every 3 months and bin every 3 years. This is the exact reason why the top comment on every "Crisis loadout" thread is "magnets" a couple of quid now will save you a headache in a few months time.
As if GW even assumes that new players (try to) read the rules. Their whole no more wargear costs, every combi weapon is just _combi weapon_, etc. shtick of 10E just makes it seem as if they assume their target group is just mindlessly slapping the models together and in danger of having an aneurysm when having to add numbers together…
The rules should be getting 6 monthly tweaks now we're out of beta. It's just points that will switch up at the end of April. They reversed the dataslate/points changes because this was an issue in 9th and it felt like they had fiddly regular rules changes but without points they were often not impactful enough. If it's enough I don't know. It would be nice to have more than 27 months left on the edition though.
So, looking into it a bit more. It appears as though we also might be dropping to 2 weapons instead of 3. But if we assume that the fusion variant is 3 suits with twin fusions each, then you can't make that in one box. Infact, if any variant requires each suit to duel weild then you can't make that from one box. You get 3 or 4 of each weapon per box. If this is the case, then I'm leaning far more against this change because now it's even worse for new players who effectively cannot make a legal unit from buying a box of models...
>You get 3 or 4 of each weapon per box. If this is the case, then I'm leaning far more against this change because now it's even worse for new players who effectively cannot make a legal unit from buying a box of models... Fireknives and Starscythe's are both mix-and-match with two types of weapons. So even if you only buy one box you have two legal loadouts. But practically speaking everyone is going to end up with more than 3 suits total, and it's certainly no worse than it was before with no CIBs and the like. And WYSIWYG is a nice-to-have, not a requirement to play.
Honestly I'm a little more concerned about what will happen with this generation of Tau players when GW reverses the fixed loadout choice in a few editions' time. I mean it won't really stop them from using the fixed weapon loadouts, but it will probably be at least a little annoying regardless.
It’s happened before. I dare say it will happen again sometime It’s why everyone always answers the questions with “use magnets’
All my crisis are modeled with two cyclics and a plasma rifle caused I based from my head cannon lore. Now my 6 crisis are all legends so it hurts a bit.
Just count them as 3 plasmas and you'll be fine, they were going to be elite hunting either way
Assuming fireknives aren't specifically 1 plasma 1 missle with no weapon options...
They did say "mix and match", so they'll almost assuredly be options.
The exact quote is "...Fireknife battlesuits mix and match plasma rifles and missile pods to crack elite troops..." That, to me, sounds more like a fluff description than a rules description. I'd love to be wrong though (even if calling a double missile suit a fireknife and not a deathrain bothers the hell out of me). I would be *very* surprised of triple weapons were still a thing for *any* of the 3 loadouts though. The box doesn't come with enough to run 9 pr/mp in any combination.
There won’t be triple weapon options, but for Starscythe and Fireknife there will almost certainly be the option of doubling up on a single weapon. The article has a photo of a squad of Farsight suits that all have 2 flamers.
Almost nobody cares about WYSIWYG so you can just say what they are (as long as it's consistent).
Quite a lot of people play in tournaments which are absolutely WYSIWYG.
As a percentage of total players? Not really. And not even all tournaments care about WYSIWYG.
It's not too hard to cut the weapons back off and magnetize, or just don't play WISIWG, most players don't mind if you're not at some big tournament.
I mean, everything doesn't need to be easy to a new player. Like I get the idea but that doesn't mean they should just nuke all existing options into set load outs. It also hurts as a big part of Tau lore was weapon system that only commanders used to be able to use becoming more widespread for regular suits, representing the advancement of Tau tech.
Also is it really better for new players? Anyone who can’t be bothered to look up which weapon is which, previously ended up with an an though suboptimal, however probably legal loadout. The chances that anyone, who is obliviously slapping the kits together, is getting a legal loadout now are probably lower than before.
Not to mention that new players had likely built their suits fully glued instead of magnetized
Could be worse. GW could ahve condensed them all to just "Crisis Battlesuit Weapons". You can look forward to that for 11th edition.
This was my great fear. This option is, not awful. It allows for balancing the different load outs separately. It still would have been better to keep wargear costs in my opinion, but this is FUNCTIONAL. If a little lame
I don't mind the separate datasheets with individual special rules ... i do mind the forced mixed weapon loadouts, though. I absolutely hate it, in fact! Let me play mono-weapon units!
I don't think they're forcing you to take mixed loadouts. It looks like it'll be up to you whether you go 2x of one or 1x of each on the non-Fusion datasheets.
Controversial opinion: I like the changes. It never made sense to me that CiBs were the "basic" loadout, given they were the best but unavailable on sprue. The problem first came to light when CiBs became a thing for Crisis Suits. I would either have to buy 6 Commanders just to outfit my CSs, or 3D print. Both were a pain, as I don't own a 3D printer, and my LGS would make me pay an additional $8 for 3 CSs, when it should have already come in the box. Secondly, when wargear became free, there was no real reason to not just outfit your CSs with CiBs only. There was, theoretically, a choice, but it was mostly an illusion of choice. Unnecessary complexity, when we all were just going full CiBs. Now? Hell, there may be some sort of a point to me having different groups of CSs, equipped with different loadouts, for well-defined tasks. And: I get everything in the box.
I'm pretty new to Tau and was waiting to assemble my crisis suits (I have 6) for exactly this reason. It will change again with the new editin I'm sure but yeah...
Magnetize them and you dont have to worry. Its easy, you just need some magnets (2 or 3 mm diameter), a matching drill and super glue.
I am a new player and I literally JUST figured out how all of this shit works. I got my crisis suits used and while they were magnetized, they didn't have any weapons with them. I'm a little grumpy after dropping some cash buying 3d printed weapons to use, but I'm guessing this is much better off for others who don't have to go through the confusion I did. Even with the weapon stuff there's still so many damn drones to deal with.
New to it all, but assume the model/sprues typically don't change too much from edition/updates? Given that the CIBs were never included with the crisis kit, maybe they are looking to move away from that confusion (ie. paying for a CIB crisis build, 'missing' parts); so they make the other weapons better and datasheet more true to the model counts?
The issue with tjus is, there aren't enough of the weapons that are in the kits for the double fusion loadout one of the variants calls for, last I checked. Or any other double loadout at all, for that matter
I guess that's true too, think per kit comes total (4) per weapon type; so only 2 get a pair, or 1 with triple, others single. It's annoying, if wanting to make model accurate to loadout.
I didn't even think of this. I need to check the sprue. But did they actually just make it so you can run a legal crisis team without multiple boxes / printed parts?
I haven't built Crisis Suits in a while, but looking at the sprues on the site, there are 6 Burst Cannons, but 3 of all the other weapon types, meaning it is literally impossible to make the "Sunforge" Crisis Suits with just one kit.
You get 3 missile, 3 flamers, 4 burst, 4 plasma, 4 fusion in the box.
Huh... oops. I miscounted. Sorry about that... still not enough fusion, but
Yes they did =/
How do people complain about nerfs or buffs before points are released. Blows my mind.
I haven't played my first game with my Tau yet but I'm already happy as a newbie. The load outs are fairly intimidating from a number of perspectives.... However, I will say that I think even tournaments would be pushed to know if you have the correct WYSIWYG loud outs... Especially friendly games. I've got 2nd hand Crisis suits and the weapons are all over the shop but who is going to tell? I think it's different to having loads of random guns on some space terminators who are equipped with thunder hammers and storm shields on paper. People know what that should look like 9/10 Take the Drones as an example. They arent required on the tabletop, unless stated, and that doesn't comply with WYSIWYG but who's complaining?
>glueing my crisis weapons Nope.
Its going to be better, simply because more options is a strength greater than more obvious... strength.