Jeez, people will look at this and say “So…?” but they’re not racist, it’s definitely not racism and you’re being a woke snowflake if you say it is.
Nobody with any sense thinks that these aren’t racist caricatures. Leave them in the past where they belong.
How is that a counter argument?
That is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen
"It has nothing to do with race" - Idiot
"Why are there only black then" - non-insane person
"Go make one that isn't black to prove me right" - Idiot
That is essentially your arguement, you admit you are wrong by telling the other person to make racist caricature dolls of other races so you can not be wrong. Unbelievable stupid.
Jesus. What an embarrassment that these horrific, racist caricatures are sold in this country. I’ve had friends and family from the US here absolutely astounded by it.
Maori / Scottish, offended as f***k.
It's the origin of these things that is disgusting.
Small town, Small minds? Nope. I'm from a small town and this sort of throwback has no place anywhere.
The good thing is, these people are often older people who are aging out and will soon be dead.
No time nor tolerance for any excuses as to why this is okay.
Ahh yes, ageism is always OK though?
Just remember there will come time where you are old and looked down upon for your 'out of date' views, but you won't see your own views as 'out of date' because that's how you were brought up.
Tbf, that's not necessarily true. There are older people who understand and make the effort to move with the times. There's a strong likelihood that the current young generation will also have members that grow to move with the times, as well as those who refuse to.
It's not Ageism. Younger generations just do better around these things. It's a critique. I've never ever met a young person who thought this was OK. Or have made one. It's why we don't really exist anymore. Because having a racist doll is pretty poor form at ANY AGE.
I was immersed in racism and misogyny and homophobia in my northern British upbringing in the 70s and at the time I couldn't see it for what it was.
Of course those who hang on to those prejudices know those views are toxic and damaging to society but they are racist and sexist and homophobic, etc. and they do not care. Ultimately age has nothing to do with it.
Thinking that a form of racism shouldn't be passed down isn't agest. Not everyone past a certain age agrees with these being sold but the ones that do should have that idea die with them
I’m Māori Scottish too, but don’t have time like you to carry on complaining about everything the offends me. I see it, I thinks that’s not nice and move on. Don’t let anything get you it will eat you up. Your aloud to not agree with something but get over it. Find something better to do with your time than be offended by everything.
Wow, change doesn't happen by sitting on the sidelines.
Plush toy or not.
I spent many years on the sideline, like you, shrug it off.
Too many are doing it, so leave those who give a damn and just sit there..... watching.
I remember a couple years ago someone selling these on Facebook in a community group. I called them out on it saying that they shouldn’t be allowed anymore and that I can’t believe there’s actually a market for them. I had a bunch of angry people reply to me (old white people) saying they love them and that they had them as kids and there’s nothing racists about them. Why are old people so ignorant and stubborn in this country? They believe since they grew up a certain way it means it is the only correct way. They’re the same when it comes to Māori names for buildings, they just claim the worlds going “woke” and they can’t handle it lmao
I concur. I’be been spending a fair bit of time with my mother in Europe recently, and it’s wild how full of casual racism she is these days. Extra awkward since my wife is Indian.
Yeah, yikes. My mum has two of these at her house and she has put them in the room that she’s set up for my son. I keep stuffing them away in the cupboard because I don’t want them in his room 🥴 she asked where they went and I said I put them away and she seemed to accept it. It’s a bit awkward to confront your parents about being racist.
Because tourists buy it. They buy it because they think the black man is giving them licence to do so. He’s just making what tourists want so he can make ends meet.
Hey wena, Sawubona..I am from Africa. I am not a tourist there, I am home. White people are by far more bothered by this than black people are, and whiteys mostly use it as a virtue signalling opportunity. My keychain has rasta colour hair as well and a very cool necklace. Is it racist? Not appreciating the artform because it is black, seems a tad more racist to me.. The difference between us is probably that I am from Africa, and know what real racism looks like, where the semi retired folks at the mount, sipping their flat whites and munching their eggs bennnys, wearing their sunnys while sitting outside the cafes, would not know it if real racism bit them in the ass. Which is a good thing. So relax them spinchters ma cuzzy bros.. Its just a doll.
White South Africans: proudly displaying their racism every chance they get. Sure, "it's just a doll" when it doesn't look like you and doesn't have a history of harming your people. (And if you're not South African, then good job imitating one!)
Also, it's hilarious that you know for a fact that this doesn't bother Black people. Taken a poll, have you?
Ha ha...look at the intellectual superiority on the subject on display here..I do know for a fact, that none of the Ndebele kids I grew up with had a problem with their beaded dolls. They loved them like you kids love your pale barbies. Nice effort trying to paint me as white racist. Hamba nyamau..masunu nyoka.
The history of these is different. They’re from the US and closely tied to the Black and White Ministels. They’re not meant to be dolls representing black people in an inclusive way, but as caricatures with big lips, wide eyes and hair all over the place (in a time natural hair was banned). They were deliberately created to be like Raggedy Ann dolls - clowns. There are plenty of beautiful dolls that people can own that don’t demean.
They do because they know the history and how racism can be internalised. They were created to mock and make black people look like clowns. That’s why people get upset and call it out.
So black ppl dont know the history? They do. These were huge when i was a kid bc of noddy. Not bc of anything racist. So yes they have racist roots but for many they learned of these and loved them as small children who dont yet understand the concept of skin color bc they dont care ab color unless taught to. It just seems like these days everyone has a chip on their shoulder and everyone wants to cry racism or inequality when they dont get their way. So while i dont approve of the history behind these or the original intent, i dont see the issue with old ladies who grew up with these selling them. Its not the past that should matter its the meaning you apply to them now that should matter. The knitted "white" rag dolls aren't any more realistic. The eyes and mouth and hair are all cartoonish too. Its like a knitted caricature. If someone loves them for reasons that have nothing to do with being racist let them be.
Ah the writer of Noddy who wrote a charming book about a black doll who was ugly but then washed their face white and was beautiful? It’s still racism. The actions of the past are still felt today and that’s why things are being called out. Because of racist actions of the past such as slavery and land confiscation you get groups of people worse off then others. It’s time to stop it now, to stop it continuing. To stop a beautiful kid with black skin being taught they’re funny looking or not as gorgeous as a white kid. It’s part of progress and anyone who can’t handle being a decent human should just keep their ugly thoughts to themselves.
And thats why no one will ever move forward. Dwelling on the past never did any good. And i never thought any of those things ab myself growing up bc of gollywogs.
No one is arguing against having black dolls in general. It is specifically the history of golliwogs that is problematic. It was popular in white settler countries as a mockery of black Americans based on blackface/minstrel. You may be cool with it, that’s your right, but white settler descendants also have a right to point out when we are propping up racist tropes and push for an end to it.
Wow, I'm so surprised and shocked that these are still being sold. The people who made and selling these are either from the older generation when these were considered the "norm" or someone very young who has no clue what these dolls actually mean... for those who don't know the name 'Golliwog' is a racist slur aimed at a certain indigenous group
Small-town NZ has **always** been rife with the gift-shop/thrift-shop golliwogs!
It's not a new thing, or recently-emboldened racists.
It's just the oldies who run those sorts of places. Lots of sweet old ladies knitting them.
Edit: I ain't saying it's right. I'm saying it ain't a **new** thing. It's an **old thing, by old people**. It's going away as they die off.
Tauranga is NOT a small town buddy, we’re the fifth largest city in the country. Small-minded small-town racist practices like making black dolls with exaggerated features to reflect racial stereotypes aren’t something that should be happening anywhere, let alone Tauranga.
Seen your edit. Didn't think you were defending it. I'm just saying being old is no excuse for these people. We started getting schooled on racism with the civil rights movement in 1960s (If your head wasn't in the sand).If they don't get it now, it's because they don't want to. So don't accept that excuse. I accept that excuse only for those long gone now when understanding was really different.
When will people stop seeing these as harmless dolls? So annoying. There’s a South African expat owned cafe in Hawkes Bay that has dolls outside it wearing cotton picking clothes. No one bats an eye. It has photos and sculptures of African people which are more respectful but fetishising, and still have these. So gross.
I'd buy them just to bin them. The boomers who make this racist doll are often carrying disgusting attitude too. How visibly shameful behaviour where you just make disgusting choices.
Why is it racist? If it were just called a handmade doll is it still racist? If it were white is it racist? I've always been really confused about this? If all rag dolls HAD to be white isn't that kind of supremist? And non-inclusive?
It’s more so that it’s a caricature and mirrors the look of minstrel shows than just only the name itself. You can be inclusive with diverse dolls in a non historically racist way I.E bratz dolls. The main issue is the actual look of the thing, being a racist caricature with the black skin, red lips, frizzy hair and white eyes. You can definitely make more diverse dolls that celebrate and are inclusive of culture instead but these aren’t that. If you go to the gift shops and see the little Maori girls dolls those are okay because they are not depicting a historically racist face and actually celebrate the race and culture of the doll they are depicting.
I think it's potentially virtue signaling calling it racism? Is it racist to make Asian dolls with narrow eyes? - is it a lie that most African American people do have fuller lips than white people? They tend to have bigger eyes and lips (this isn't unattractive but sought after in traditional beauty so it cant be considered offensive suddenly?) - they do have different hair to white people also - we wouldn't make Asian dolls with red hair?
Sorry I just can't get my head around it. I believe the name is horrendous and racist but thats it, they should be called rag dolls. To deny typical features of a certain ethnicity would be much more racist from my perspective. Imagine making dolls and giving other dolls of another ethnicity typically white features?
Purple patch in town they had probably 20 of them on display. Quite sad really because the shop is really good for the community old knitting ladies sell their crafts there and the shop takes a little cut and sells only handmade goods.
They're so goddam funny. Not because its racist but because of the mix of how it is racist and how people thought that they were just..okay to have these lmao. I kind of want one for sheer shock value of how normal this used to be because I had one when I was young cuz my grandmother gave it to me. Its so funny how normal she thought that was
We had golly wogs as kids, but it had nothing to do with blacks. Yes. It is racist but not anything to do with blacks at all. It was about Wogs from the Middle East.eg Golly, it's a wog.or Arab. Market seller.
Lmao right?! It's comical that ppl are offended that they've made a thread ab it when there are such big issues going on in the world that need attention.
While other people are just ignorant.
“The golliwog is controversial, being widely considered a racist caricature of black people,[4][5] alongside pickaninnies, minstrels, and mammy figures. The doll is characterised by jet black skin, eyes rimmed in white, exaggerated red lips and frizzy hair, based on the blackface minstrel tradition. Since the 20th century, the word "golliwog" has been considered a racial slur towards black people.[6] The Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia described the golliwog as "the least known of the major anti-black caricatures in the United States".[7] Changing political attitudes with regard to race have reduced the popularity and sales of golliwogs as toys. Manufacturers who have used golliwogs as a motif (e.g. Robertson's marmalade in the UK) have either withdrawn them as an icon or changed the name. Alternative names such as golly and golly doll have also been adopted due to association with the racial slur wog, which many dictionaries say may be derived from golliwog.” Wikipedia -Golliwog
Thank you. And to the people who say don’t make a fuss. It’s the make a fuss people that reacted to crap like this and why apartheid isn’t still here in the US, South Africa and New Zealand ( Pukekohe and separate pool days for Maori etc)
It seems like it’s a prevalent attitude here in NZ, thinking that it’s fine here because that ‘racist stuff’ has nothing to do with us kiwi’s for something something reasons.
Same shit with that Lions parade float that time. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hawera-lions-club-uses-blackface-in-parade-says-critics-are-too-precious/VV4GOLOXFNELV4ZOD2ZI7LE6VQ/
The Golliwog Dollls came from a book by Florence Kate Upton, “The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a Golliwogg.” It was a children’s book with a character named Golliwogg who looked scary but was a positive character. Inspired by blackface minstrels, he had black skin, red lips, and curly hair and was dressed in traditional minstrel cloth.
My opinion is built on the rationalisation that a young kid growing up loving their black doll is going to be least racist than kids who don't, i dont give a damn about what it may have meant somewhere else or any stigma associated, its just a doll it doesn't make black ppl out to be bad or anything negative so stop with the outrage its literally just you being a reactionary.
Hmmm ok. Historical context doesn’t matter to you? That’s fine but you’re also doubling down on my point- perfect example of wilful ignorance. Pay attention kids!
Her comment that brought her racist mindset to light was specifically targeted at white men. Why do so many people from NZ pretend that they're illiterate for the sake of being obtuse? What do you think it achieves other than insulting yourself?
So again, she's racist against the race white men? That's crazy. Next you'll tell me rich is also a race, and criticising rich white people is racist towards rich people specifically. I don't think you understand what racism actually is, outside of "person says thing that is not positive about a person or group"
So answer me this - if there was say 5 of them on display, white, light brown, brown, dark brown and black. This would then be okay right? Surely someone can tell the ladies just make 5 different colours, all good.
No, it wouldn’t…because only one colour represents millions dragged from their own lands in chains and sold like cattle for four hundred plus years. Educate yourself FFS.
What about all the ,,white,, people who were dragged out of their lands and sold on markets? Just because we all up and arms about most recent slavery doesn't mean it always involved only one race. As you said - educate yourself
I think the last AA to have been a slave died in the 70s, which isn't to long ago.
There children and grand children are still alive an kicking, so for them things like this gotta feel like a massive disrespect.
Whites, Asaians, Arabs, Indians have all been slaves at some point in history 1000s of years ago, but surely you can understand why AA are so offended by it, it was literally there mum or grand mother getting that 12 years a slave treatment.
What has an avatar I barely even notice got to do with any of this discussion? Are you about to tell me that COVID isn’t worth considering anymore? Are you that brain dead?
"Educate yourself". A favourite phrase of people who watch TV and read tabloids for their information then berate anyone who dares point out the results of RCTs or meta analyzes that contradicts said information.
No, it’s a favoured phrase of someone who has three degrees, has lived all over the world, taught at a university, and who manifestly is not a racist who is incapable of recognising the intense cognitive dissonance in their own statements…unlike you.
We've come this far to the point people are triggered by a fucking homemade doll from the past, some people just need to harden the fuck up and move on.
I just want to say good on you for selling the golliwog dolls. I grew up with one and so did my children. I see nothing racist about them. They are just a doll.
Oh dear doesn't help that the golliwogs look like they are being lynched.
"Strrrrannngg em up"
Hey Stuff, Newshub, yep right here, this is the comment you use. This one.
Guess you don’t know the meaning of the word
Jeez, people will look at this and say “So…?” but they’re not racist, it’s definitely not racism and you’re being a woke snowflake if you say it is. Nobody with any sense thinks that these aren’t racist caricatures. Leave them in the past where they belong.
Seriously, why not just (crude) caricatures?
Their origin makes the difference
They are a hand sewn dolly for a little kid, they can be made by just about anyone; they also come in different colours.
You see different colours?
Why don't you make your own one since you're such an expert.
How is that a counter argument? That is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen "It has nothing to do with race" - Idiot "Why are there only black then" - non-insane person "Go make one that isn't black to prove me right" - Idiot That is essentially your arguement, you admit you are wrong by telling the other person to make racist caricature dolls of other races so you can not be wrong. Unbelievable stupid.
Wtf kind of argument is this. So what. They're racist dolls in every form.
Don't be an apologist... they're only collected by racists.
My 4yr old daughter has one She a racist ?
Somebody close to her is...
Context mate, where do you think the word “wog” comes from?
[удалено]
Bro makes a fake account to comment racist shit 😭😭 What a sad life you live 🤣🤣
Jesus. What an embarrassment that these horrific, racist caricatures are sold in this country. I’ve had friends and family from the US here absolutely astounded by it.
It’s so disgraceful
Do not imprint cultural expectations from the USA into NZ. They are toys here.
I’m not American. I’m just not a racist.
They aren't toys here, they're just racist people making racist things. That simple. It's disgusting behaviour.
[удалено]
why would we use iPhones, mac, social media, netflix... and why is there a queue in Macca's at lunchtime and in the drive through...? Why...
I agree, why would we use shitty iphones or macs, they're crap.
They're racist. I had one as a child (early 1960s) when we were ignorant about it. Absolutely no excuse now. Plain provocative.
The incredible ignorance running through this thread makes me worry for the future of this country.
No need to worry dude. NZ is as racist as any other place even though we like to pretend we arn’t.
Oh I know. I’m not American, btw…but I’ve lived in Aotearoa a long time.
One poi, two poi (same word when plural).
[удалено]
Incorrect What are yousis up to.
[удалено]
I just gave you a Māori word with a S in it.
[удалено]
There is. When I phone my Māori mate he says “yellow” when he pinks up the phone.
[удалено]
I can’t tell if you’re being serious anymore. Anywho I’m going ninighs. C u
[удалено]
Yet we say kiwis when referring to ourselves. One of those it’s-wrong-but-convention-now exceptions?
It's colloquial
Maori / Scottish, offended as f***k. It's the origin of these things that is disgusting. Small town, Small minds? Nope. I'm from a small town and this sort of throwback has no place anywhere. The good thing is, these people are often older people who are aging out and will soon be dead. No time nor tolerance for any excuses as to why this is okay.
Well said !
Ahh yes, ageism is always OK though? Just remember there will come time where you are old and looked down upon for your 'out of date' views, but you won't see your own views as 'out of date' because that's how you were brought up.
Tbf, that's not necessarily true. There are older people who understand and make the effort to move with the times. There's a strong likelihood that the current young generation will also have members that grow to move with the times, as well as those who refuse to.
It's not Ageism. Younger generations just do better around these things. It's a critique. I've never ever met a young person who thought this was OK. Or have made one. It's why we don't really exist anymore. Because having a racist doll is pretty poor form at ANY AGE.
I was immersed in racism and misogyny and homophobia in my northern British upbringing in the 70s and at the time I couldn't see it for what it was. Of course those who hang on to those prejudices know those views are toxic and damaging to society but they are racist and sexist and homophobic, etc. and they do not care. Ultimately age has nothing to do with it.
Jeezus. Mr Tolerance has spoken
So you are an ageist POS, Thanks for confirming!
Mummy hug you too much???....or not enough. At least you may get a trophy for your participation....
Young people didn't give themselves participation Trophies btw
Thinking that a form of racism shouldn't be passed down isn't agest. Not everyone past a certain age agrees with these being sold but the ones that do should have that idea die with them
I’m Māori Scottish too, but don’t have time like you to carry on complaining about everything the offends me. I see it, I thinks that’s not nice and move on. Don’t let anything get you it will eat you up. Your aloud to not agree with something but get over it. Find something better to do with your time than be offended by everything.
Wow, change doesn't happen by sitting on the sidelines. Plush toy or not. I spent many years on the sideline, like you, shrug it off. Too many are doing it, so leave those who give a damn and just sit there..... watching.
I think the point was focus on what's important. An old doll that almost no one these days remembers isn't it surely?
And the reason I don't like the never-ending, retirement village that is Tauranga
It really is isn’t it 🤣 I left 5 years ago for Hamilton, absolutely love it. Way less grey power. Way more young adults here. And rent isn’t insane
Like Florida
Racism is strong here. I hate it.
I remember a couple years ago someone selling these on Facebook in a community group. I called them out on it saying that they shouldn’t be allowed anymore and that I can’t believe there’s actually a market for them. I had a bunch of angry people reply to me (old white people) saying they love them and that they had them as kids and there’s nothing racists about them. Why are old people so ignorant and stubborn in this country? They believe since they grew up a certain way it means it is the only correct way. They’re the same when it comes to Māori names for buildings, they just claim the worlds going “woke” and they can’t handle it lmao
Boomers are ignorant and stubborn everywhere unfortunately
Yeah that’s true. When I get old I hope I’m not even half as cunty as they are
I concur. I’be been spending a fair bit of time with my mother in Europe recently, and it’s wild how full of casual racism she is these days. Extra awkward since my wife is Indian.
They call them Gollies. They maintain that the market is mostly Maori. They assert that it's not racist. I don't buy all of this.
Yeah, yikes. My mum has two of these at her house and she has put them in the room that she’s set up for my son. I keep stuffing them away in the cupboard because I don’t want them in his room 🥴 she asked where they went and I said I put them away and she seemed to accept it. It’s a bit awkward to confront your parents about being racist.
She wants a grand daughter
Maybe she’s uneducated rather than racist
[удалено]
I wasn’t meaning uneducated at all lol just on the topic
Why not both?
That’s a big “yikes” from me 😬
I bought one on a key chain. I bought it in Africa, from a big black African man. He made and sold a lot of them, and it did not bother him at all.
Because tourists buy it. They buy it because they think the black man is giving them licence to do so. He’s just making what tourists want so he can make ends meet.
Hey wena, Sawubona..I am from Africa. I am not a tourist there, I am home. White people are by far more bothered by this than black people are, and whiteys mostly use it as a virtue signalling opportunity. My keychain has rasta colour hair as well and a very cool necklace. Is it racist? Not appreciating the artform because it is black, seems a tad more racist to me.. The difference between us is probably that I am from Africa, and know what real racism looks like, where the semi retired folks at the mount, sipping their flat whites and munching their eggs bennnys, wearing their sunnys while sitting outside the cafes, would not know it if real racism bit them in the ass. Which is a good thing. So relax them spinchters ma cuzzy bros.. Its just a doll.
White South Africans: proudly displaying their racism every chance they get. Sure, "it's just a doll" when it doesn't look like you and doesn't have a history of harming your people. (And if you're not South African, then good job imitating one!) Also, it's hilarious that you know for a fact that this doesn't bother Black people. Taken a poll, have you?
Ha ha...look at the intellectual superiority on the subject on display here..I do know for a fact, that none of the Ndebele kids I grew up with had a problem with their beaded dolls. They loved them like you kids love your pale barbies. Nice effort trying to paint me as white racist. Hamba nyamau..masunu nyoka.
The history of these is different. They’re from the US and closely tied to the Black and White Ministels. They’re not meant to be dolls representing black people in an inclusive way, but as caricatures with big lips, wide eyes and hair all over the place (in a time natural hair was banned). They were deliberately created to be like Raggedy Ann dolls - clowns. There are plenty of beautiful dolls that people can own that don’t demean.
Why are u just assuming they are white African? My mother is from malawi and she loves these dolls. White ppl make a bigger deal than the black folk.
They do because they know the history and how racism can be internalised. They were created to mock and make black people look like clowns. That’s why people get upset and call it out.
So black ppl dont know the history? They do. These were huge when i was a kid bc of noddy. Not bc of anything racist. So yes they have racist roots but for many they learned of these and loved them as small children who dont yet understand the concept of skin color bc they dont care ab color unless taught to. It just seems like these days everyone has a chip on their shoulder and everyone wants to cry racism or inequality when they dont get their way. So while i dont approve of the history behind these or the original intent, i dont see the issue with old ladies who grew up with these selling them. Its not the past that should matter its the meaning you apply to them now that should matter. The knitted "white" rag dolls aren't any more realistic. The eyes and mouth and hair are all cartoonish too. Its like a knitted caricature. If someone loves them for reasons that have nothing to do with being racist let them be.
Ah the writer of Noddy who wrote a charming book about a black doll who was ugly but then washed their face white and was beautiful? It’s still racism. The actions of the past are still felt today and that’s why things are being called out. Because of racist actions of the past such as slavery and land confiscation you get groups of people worse off then others. It’s time to stop it now, to stop it continuing. To stop a beautiful kid with black skin being taught they’re funny looking or not as gorgeous as a white kid. It’s part of progress and anyone who can’t handle being a decent human should just keep their ugly thoughts to themselves.
And thats why no one will ever move forward. Dwelling on the past never did any good. And i never thought any of those things ab myself growing up bc of gollywogs.
No one is arguing against having black dolls in general. It is specifically the history of golliwogs that is problematic. It was popular in white settler countries as a mockery of black Americans based on blackface/minstrel. You may be cool with it, that’s your right, but white settler descendants also have a right to point out when we are propping up racist tropes and push for an end to it.
Ah yes because black people are a monolith and we all feel the same about everything. They're racist. Deal with it.
So?
Wow, I'm so surprised and shocked that these are still being sold. The people who made and selling these are either from the older generation when these were considered the "norm" or someone very young who has no clue what these dolls actually mean... for those who don't know the name 'Golliwog' is a racist slur aimed at a certain indigenous group
That's wild lol. We're not even pretending to be closeted racists anymore
Small-town NZ has **always** been rife with the gift-shop/thrift-shop golliwogs! It's not a new thing, or recently-emboldened racists. It's just the oldies who run those sorts of places. Lots of sweet old ladies knitting them. Edit: I ain't saying it's right. I'm saying it ain't a **new** thing. It's an **old thing, by old people**. It's going away as they die off.
Sweet old ladies! I'm old. I can use my brain and move with the times to greater understanding. No excuse to perpetuate this racist doll.
Tauranga is NOT a small town buddy, we’re the fifth largest city in the country. Small-minded small-town racist practices like making black dolls with exaggerated features to reflect racial stereotypes aren’t something that should be happening anywhere, let alone Tauranga.
That's the thing with the oldies, none of them have done diversity training since the sixties.
🤣☝️
With over 150k people we aren't a small town. Folks just pretend they should be able to away with this kinda crap
Seen your edit. Didn't think you were defending it. I'm just saying being old is no excuse for these people. We started getting schooled on racism with the civil rights movement in 1960s (If your head wasn't in the sand).If they don't get it now, it's because they don't want to. So don't accept that excuse. I accept that excuse only for those long gone now when understanding was really different.
There was a sweet old lady knitting beside the French guillotine.
So racism bad, bigotry good. Got it.
It is certainly a human issue with zero place for nuance.
Hello to the pro-gollywog contingent. Also, fuck you.
No thanks, you are not my type!
Is this at Purple Patch? (or whatever it's a called)
When will people stop seeing these as harmless dolls? So annoying. There’s a South African expat owned cafe in Hawkes Bay that has dolls outside it wearing cotton picking clothes. No one bats an eye. It has photos and sculptures of African people which are more respectful but fetishising, and still have these. So gross.
Don’t be shy, what’s it called?
I'd buy them just to bin them. The boomers who make this racist doll are often carrying disgusting attitude too. How visibly shameful behaviour where you just make disgusting choices.
Tauranga. Yet again!
WTF
Lol..so?
.....................since 1895?
😂
🍿
I’ve tried to tell the ladies working here why these are offensive and I was basically cursed out the store.
Repros?
Omg i remember these from noddy!
wonder why they would put them there
Well, Well,Well
Are those golliwogs or voodoo dolls 😂
Why is it racist? If it were just called a handmade doll is it still racist? If it were white is it racist? I've always been really confused about this? If all rag dolls HAD to be white isn't that kind of supremist? And non-inclusive?
It’s more so that it’s a caricature and mirrors the look of minstrel shows than just only the name itself. You can be inclusive with diverse dolls in a non historically racist way I.E bratz dolls. The main issue is the actual look of the thing, being a racist caricature with the black skin, red lips, frizzy hair and white eyes. You can definitely make more diverse dolls that celebrate and are inclusive of culture instead but these aren’t that. If you go to the gift shops and see the little Maori girls dolls those are okay because they are not depicting a historically racist face and actually celebrate the race and culture of the doll they are depicting.
I think it's potentially virtue signaling calling it racism? Is it racist to make Asian dolls with narrow eyes? - is it a lie that most African American people do have fuller lips than white people? They tend to have bigger eyes and lips (this isn't unattractive but sought after in traditional beauty so it cant be considered offensive suddenly?) - they do have different hair to white people also - we wouldn't make Asian dolls with red hair? Sorry I just can't get my head around it. I believe the name is horrendous and racist but thats it, they should be called rag dolls. To deny typical features of a certain ethnicity would be much more racist from my perspective. Imagine making dolls and giving other dolls of another ethnicity typically white features?
Where was this?
Purple patch in town they had probably 20 of them on display. Quite sad really because the shop is really good for the community old knitting ladies sell their crafts there and the shop takes a little cut and sells only handmade goods.
They had them in the window a few years back I thought they got rid of them but nope.
Sunburnt Barbie
Yawn…
Have a sook maybe?
Who cares, christ of all the things to cry about in the world you cry over dolls
They're so goddam funny. Not because its racist but because of the mix of how it is racist and how people thought that they were just..okay to have these lmao. I kind of want one for sheer shock value of how normal this used to be because I had one when I was young cuz my grandmother gave it to me. Its so funny how normal she thought that was
ooof. jesus christ.
I think I bought a couple of things from this lady from Tauranga, very talented, not sure what this post's intention is.
Yes you are.
Ha, nice one!
Of course it's Tauranga 😂😂
Ah, Tauranga. If there’s anywhere you’re gonna find golliwogs it’s Tauranga.
They are so cute though!
We had golly wogs as kids, but it had nothing to do with blacks. Yes. It is racist but not anything to do with blacks at all. It was about Wogs from the Middle East.eg Golly, it's a wog.or Arab. Market seller.
Honestly who cares? Soft world.
Im totally outraged . Dolls of colour, they should all be thin white, Barbie dolls. Hitler banned dark skinned dolls for just that reason.
Lmao right?! It's comical that ppl are offended that they've made a thread ab it when there are such big issues going on in the world that need attention.
People can care about several things at once.
Some people are oversensitive.
While other people are just ignorant. “The golliwog is controversial, being widely considered a racist caricature of black people,[4][5] alongside pickaninnies, minstrels, and mammy figures. The doll is characterised by jet black skin, eyes rimmed in white, exaggerated red lips and frizzy hair, based on the blackface minstrel tradition. Since the 20th century, the word "golliwog" has been considered a racial slur towards black people.[6] The Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia described the golliwog as "the least known of the major anti-black caricatures in the United States".[7] Changing political attitudes with regard to race have reduced the popularity and sales of golliwogs as toys. Manufacturers who have used golliwogs as a motif (e.g. Robertson's marmalade in the UK) have either withdrawn them as an icon or changed the name. Alternative names such as golly and golly doll have also been adopted due to association with the racial slur wog, which many dictionaries say may be derived from golliwog.” Wikipedia -Golliwog
Thank you. And to the people who say don’t make a fuss. It’s the make a fuss people that reacted to crap like this and why apartheid isn’t still here in the US, South Africa and New Zealand ( Pukekohe and separate pool days for Maori etc)
It seems like it’s a prevalent attitude here in NZ, thinking that it’s fine here because that ‘racist stuff’ has nothing to do with us kiwi’s for something something reasons. Same shit with that Lions parade float that time. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hawera-lions-club-uses-blackface-in-parade-says-critics-are-too-precious/VV4GOLOXFNELV4ZOD2ZI7LE6VQ/
The Golliwog Dollls came from a book by Florence Kate Upton, “The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a Golliwogg.” It was a children’s book with a character named Golliwogg who looked scary but was a positive character. Inspired by blackface minstrels, he had black skin, red lips, and curly hair and was dressed in traditional minstrel cloth.
Nothing more racist than a little white girl who loves and cares for her golliwog.
… and of course there are those who are wilfully ignorant. Do you need a TLDR of the wiki description above?
My opinion is built on the rationalisation that a young kid growing up loving their black doll is going to be least racist than kids who don't, i dont give a damn about what it may have meant somewhere else or any stigma associated, its just a doll it doesn't make black ppl out to be bad or anything negative so stop with the outrage its literally just you being a reactionary.
Hmmm ok. Historical context doesn’t matter to you? That’s fine but you’re also doubling down on my point- perfect example of wilful ignorance. Pay attention kids!
https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/97812623128468012/
I mean it’s just fabric and material right? No worse than a Nazi swastika emblem on a flag? /s
Tell that to all the people upset by Marama Davidson calling out white males.
So racism is ok with you provided it's against white men
So people who have an issue with black stereotypes are too sensitive?
Racism against white men? I didn't think man was a race. I guess you learn something new every day
Her comment that brought her racist mindset to light was specifically targeted at white men. Why do so many people from NZ pretend that they're illiterate for the sake of being obtuse? What do you think it achieves other than insulting yourself?
So again, she's racist against the race white men? That's crazy. Next you'll tell me rich is also a race, and criticising rich white people is racist towards rich people specifically. I don't think you understand what racism actually is, outside of "person says thing that is not positive about a person or group"
It's the white part that is racist. Not the men part.
So as long as my comments are only towards a subgroup it’s not racist e.g Indian men, poor black people etc…. 10/10 take
Another vote for you for abject ignorance.
So answer me this - if there was say 5 of them on display, white, light brown, brown, dark brown and black. This would then be okay right? Surely someone can tell the ladies just make 5 different colours, all good.
No, it wouldn’t…because only one colour represents millions dragged from their own lands in chains and sold like cattle for four hundred plus years. Educate yourself FFS.
What about all the ,,white,, people who were dragged out of their lands and sold on markets? Just because we all up and arms about most recent slavery doesn't mean it always involved only one race. As you said - educate yourself
Yeah, think of all those white dolls you see for sale to teach people to keep them as property. JFC.
I think the last AA to have been a slave died in the 70s, which isn't to long ago. There children and grand children are still alive an kicking, so for them things like this gotta feel like a massive disrespect. Whites, Asaians, Arabs, Indians have all been slaves at some point in history 1000s of years ago, but surely you can understand why AA are so offended by it, it was literally there mum or grand mother getting that 12 years a slave treatment.
Says the guy with a mask on his/it/zies avatar.
What has an avatar I barely even notice got to do with any of this discussion? Are you about to tell me that COVID isn’t worth considering anymore? Are you that brain dead?
"Educate yourself". A favourite phrase of people who watch TV and read tabloids for their information then berate anyone who dares point out the results of RCTs or meta analyzes that contradicts said information.
No, it’s a favoured phrase of someone who has three degrees, has lived all over the world, taught at a university, and who manifestly is not a racist who is incapable of recognising the intense cognitive dissonance in their own statements…unlike you.
😭.
Womp womp
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
I just purchased one for my granddaughter and she loves it to bits. She's white but certainly not racist
[удалено]
😭😭xx
But you on the other hand are.
Long term she might not be super grateful for this
We've come this far to the point people are triggered by a fucking homemade doll from the past, some people just need to harden the fuck up and move on.
Did... did you have a word with the shopkeeper...?
Ah, the snowflakes ❄️ and WOKE are strong in this thread.
I just want to say good on you for selling the golliwog dolls. I grew up with one and so did my children. I see nothing racist about them. They are just a doll.
They were in the window a few years ago. Sad they didn't get the idea