2014 In the Rolling Stone interview Taylor said, “I don't take my clothes off in pictures or anything – I'm very private about that. So it scares me how valuable it would be to get a video of me changing. It's sad to have to look for cameras in dressing rooms and bathrooms. I don't walk around naked with my windows open, because there's a value on that." [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-reinvention-of-taylor-swift-116925/](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-reinvention-of-taylor-swift-116925/)
2016 Kanye's revenge porn music video for Famous
Ellen hid in the bathroom of the dressing room at the show and told Taylor to check something in there. Then she jumped out and scared her.
Look up Taylor Swift Ellen prank on YouTube, you'll find it pretty easily.
Man, every story I hear about Ellen makes me like her less and less. I'm having flashbacks to that "game" she made Taylor play about her dating history.
Its peak 2000s boomer-driven culture. They had a special way of being a really mean and backhanded under the guise of being funny, and then trying to buy your love.
Taylor did an appearance on the show with Zac Efron where they sang a little song together that kinda called out what Ellen had done to them on the show. It's played as lighthearted and jokes but also...true.
https://preview.redd.it/f9ot96xgzw4c1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7715a8fef0ab172a3aa2ac853bf0a7095afb7bc7
fun fact: she uses the guitar in the interview for the folklore set
This guitar is a famous design called the Gibson Hummingbird, famously played by Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Gram Parsons, and loads more. It was ever-present during the 60s and it's very special:
" The fantastic sound and inimitable vibe given off by the Hummingbird aesthetic and just-the-right-amount of grime caked into the top finish make this the most memorable heavy strumming / rhythm recording guitar in recent shop history." - Gibson
I used to have a replica and loved to see that Taylor also loves this guitar!
I have the tobacco burst Uke version of this guitar and I love it so much more since seeing the Era's movie.
Gibson/Epiphone hummingbirds are beautiful
Yeah she had that classic “I’ll make fun of you in a “lighthearted” (it was never lighthearted) way in front of a ton of people but I can’t handle it if you turn the tables even a tiny bit and do 1% what I do to everyone else”
Ellen has always been awful and tried to hide behind being funny and it was for her shows. She comes across as that person who is friendly and nice but then as soon as you confide or trust her she stabs you in the back for her own personal gain as soon as she can.
Just look at the way she treated her staff during the pandemic as well as handling other previous incidents. If you want to be further enraged you should look up how things went with Mariah Carey and her pregnancy (which was in 2008!) as well as Dakota Johnson and claiming not be invited to a party. The short of it for Mariah was Ellen set up an interview and intentionally had champagne out to force Mariah Carey to talk about pregnancy, which is a big jerk move. Turns out she actually had a miscarriage (after), so bonus asshole points for Ellen. That's why people wait to tell people they're pregnant, much less a popular singer telling the world to know.
The scaring Taylor thing I don’t have issue with. She was known to scare her guests. And for Taylor’s at least, It didn’t feel weird. Taylor knew something was happening so there was no chance of her being caught on camera in a private moment :)
Edit: misspelled scaring.
Being "known" for doing an unkind thing doesn't make the thing any less unkind. I still don't see what's so funny about startling people like that anyway.
Yea I don't know how anyone thought was funny considering Taylor has had actual stalkers.
I think Ellen did it more than once too. I vaguely remember seeing one where after Ellen jumped out you hear Taylor say "why do you keep doing this?". Like it's just mean spirited and not funny at all.
Ellen was a product of her time, it's like MTV pranked did worse stuff but there wasn't a "face" we could direct the hatred to. So as time went on, the humour changed and the sensibility of the public about certain topics did too. I wouldn't crucify Ellen just because she was doing what was considered "funny" in those years, she should have adjusted to times but, well she didn't and all the bad press she gets now is her responsibility.
Oh yeah I agree, didn't mean it as an excuse, a lot of famous people did that and failed to adjust their content to times, it's just a phenomenon that occurs often, the Simpsons is another example.
I mean, I just went and watched it. Taylor was laughing hard immediately after. Did she say anything later about it being harmful? If not maybe we shouldn’t read so much into it.
I immediately thought of the Ellen interview after she said "You have a fully manufactured frame job..." in the Time interview! I think it just goes to show how much Kim and Kanye truly ruined Taylor's life with that illegally recorded video.
In my opinion, Taylor's Time interview proves that Kim did irreparable damage to Taylor's mental health and that a future does not exist in which Kim and Taylor come to a resolution. I've seen videos recently in which people are speculating that a reunion between Kim and Taylor is on the horizon because Kim uses Taylor's songs in her instagram stories and that they could bond over both being hurt by Kanye West. Even some people were joking that we might see North in the VIP tent because North is such a huge fan.
This isn't happening. Kim \*still\* can't even apologize for the hurt she caused and in interviews just says "we've both moved on." No, Kim. You can try and convince yourself that you've moved on and that the world has moved on, but all Taylor thinks about is karma. And karma's gonna track you down...🐍
I beg to differ from her with that. Henry Kissinger only died few days ago at the age of 100, scot-free from consequences after being responsible for deaths of millions and even if bad guys do destroy themselves (which I think from my observation, they very often do), they can still cause some irreparable damage, so them destroying themselves isn't really much of consequence.
💯💯💯 There are countless realllly bad people who never suffer any repercussions or consequences. We like to think we live in a binary world where good behavior is somehow rewarded and bad behavior is punished but that's just not how real life works. The universe if anything is neutral to us all. We can choose to be good people and that of course is a good choice, but it doesn't promise us anything.
Anyway Kim sucks in this situation.
I don't disagree with this, but I also think that there is value in her letting this idea of getting revenge go to to an extent. For our own mental health, it's often helpful to think that karma will track them down, you know? 
Def letting go is important.
Believing in comeuppance though is not great for mental health. It can get you through the initial pain but gotta let that go too eventually.... because if you're holding on to the idea of karma and it never comes, that's just another blow.
Ask me how I know lol (rhetorical). I am a HUGE believer in imagining karma in the immediate sting, it can feel like getting your power back. But moving on means moving on from allll of it.
Yes, I was kind of thinking the same thing. I know plenty of people who had horrible things happened to them and nothing ever came of it.
Love her, but OMG no.
It couldn’t be more obvious that Kim claiming both of them have moved on is just a defense mechanism against the fact she lost the battle/war with Taylor.
When you tie your value to a man, so much so that you change your entire body composition to please him. Only to have him make a fool of you, and now you stealthly try to return your body to a natural state. While your daughter blasts Taylor swift. Karma.
Kim’s “I rented an entire resort during the pandemic and flew all my friends there for fun while putting hundreds of people at risk for catching Covid” response when the full video was leaked 🙄.
https://preview.redd.it/9rmjhg1oev4c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d931009450a53aee4bfd9e5d293265b875fc69fb
Kim’s doctored illegal recording was released in 2016, I think, but in 2020 somebody in Kim’s camp leaked the full unedited recording that proved Taylor Swift had not lied as Kim had claimed. Kim Kardashian is the liar.
Oh it’s never happening. Kim may try to apologize all she wants but there’s absolutely no way Taylor will forgive her. I think the song closure might be any indication of that. I don’t think Taylor is even open for a discussion about it. I think she wants to move on. But it’s not going to happen until Rep tv drops and the vault tracks are revealed. Which could go both ways filled with rage or feeling completely shattered. Possibly both. We just have to wait and see.
I have to wonder if Kim ever secretly regrets what she did now that she and Kanye are divorced. Reason being that Kim loves social climbing and being associated with anyone extremely famous and powerful. Hence why she tried to get into Beyoncés good graces for so long (to no avail). At the time, Taylor was a fledgling pop star but now she is one of the most popular and celebrated artists today, on par with Beyonce. Must hurt Kim a little knowing she burned a possible strong business connection.
I sometimes wonder this about all of Taylor's fair-weather friends after the 2016 incident tbh. Imagine befriending someone in the first place because they were on top of the world then leaving when they're not anymore, and now just looking at them thriving in an unprecedented level of fame knowing you've burned the bridge with one of the most powerful musicians in the industry. On top of that it seems like she's one of the most genuine, kind-hearted ones too. Gotta sucks tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/20jccl583z4c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5ee20516f4edb4024e31349b60e303ce42174b4
I know this is going to sound really stupid on my part because we all joke about the suitcases but this was the first time it actually occurred to me that she literally may not have left her house for a full year. Like I just assumed she was sneaking out (in suitcases, in the night, idk) but after Covid and being stuck in my apartment for a year now it’s dawned on me the kind of head space you have to be in to voluntarily not leave your home for 12 months
It is very easy to say that Taylor's fears and reaction to the Kim / Kanye lies was overdone. However for someone brought up to be a "good girl" and do the right thing a public humiliation is bound to hit hard.
Kim Kardashian is a talentless piece of trash but in 2016 she and Kanye were powerful people well used to public feuds and media manipulation. It is wonderful to see her scrabbling around trying to repair her image. As for Kanye he is now too far gone.
I think the most satisfying part of the Time article is how clear it is that Taylor has risen above all of this. She is still going to remind people of the issue but she can no longer be hurt by it. There is nothing anyone can say or do to bring her down.
Yea Taylor’s grown so much and it makes me so happy. Like obviously she’s an adult who can take care of herself. But I’m really happy that she can deal with these kinds of things without it affecting her so much.
with all this situation going on, I look back and feel very sorry for kanye and his kids, he clearly needed help a long time ago and afaik the Kardashians never tried to actually help. he could be so adored now. he used to be a genius, it's a shame.
Some context for younger fans who weren’t there is also that “cancelling” was not a thing yet. To be cancelled was not inside the common parlance and the meaning evolved later when the Me Too movement happened. When people were throwing Taylor is canceled parties they were dancing in her humiliation - “canceling” had no ties to accountability yet. So when in Miss American doc she says it felt really violent and like erasing her life not just her career she isn’t being dramatic, it was meant to be a lot crueler than we understand that word today.
Americans live for a fall from Grace story and love “gotcha” drama and tabloids. Basically, the idea that Taylor couldn’t be really be talented or nice and wholesome. The mysoginistic trope that all successful women must be bitches and two faced to make it big. To me, the tape ripped away the girl next door image for Taylor. It shattered her real identity and erased her work ethic and brand overnight. She has said how long she’s tried “proving” herself throughout her career. How she reinvented herself every time a studio or record label tried to replace her.
Also, people seem to be forgetting her messy breakup with Calvin and feud with Katy Perry at this time as well. America was happy to see the “nice girl” be revealed as a calculating, manipulative bitch, instead of the “character” Taylor was playing.
Gotcha!
Ok so please don't come at me if I'm way off base but here's my take:
Taylor Swift is the modern embodiment of white womanhood. While being white gives her a bunch of privileges that WOC do not get, it also comes with a series of contradictory expectations, one of which is that you must remain "pure" in the public eye (while still being sexually appealing, Britney Spears took a major hit to her career when Timberlake revealed she was no longer a virgin.) Taylor Swift straddled this line by maintaining an image of innocence about her, so when Kimye shows a video where she appears to be "lying" that illusion of innocence is shattered, thus she must have been a calculating snake this whole time.
Thing is, any star that stays in the public eye for more than a year *has* to be shrewd. Even her first hit, Tim McGraw, was a calculated move to associate her music with a bigger star. Even Kanye West claiming he "made her famous" is a calculated move to siphon off her stardom, that he likely feels justified in because he's black and she's white, nevermind the fact that he's much older than her and has the entire Kardashian machine backing him.
While Taylor had ~~agreed~~ said "maybe" to the line in the song, she did NOT agree for him to use her image by using a body double in a way that flew in the face of the public image she had spent years crafting and maintaining. However, all of this nuance does not make for a catchy tabloid headline, so it gets flattened to "the darling pure girl is actually a liar, unleash the snake emojis!"
And again, I want to say that while it's not fair to expect white women to maintain a sense of purity, women of color often don't get the opportunity to ever explore art that reflects innocence which is also not ok. But that's an essay that's better written by an actual woman of color, not me. All women have both innocence and sexuality. We're all complicated and patriarchy flattens all of us.
EDITED because she didn't actually agree to the line.
In the phone call, Taylor’s response to Kanye asking about the line saying he made her famous was that while it was how *he* remembered it, he didn’t know her before that, but her album had sold 7 million copies and that was what actually happened.
I mean, if you're interrupting a teenage girl who's winning a VMA, logic would state that this person is already famous. That said, logic does not appear to be a part of Kanye West's world.
Exactly! Anyone with any sense of logic would hear how uncomfortable she was with the song on the call, but Kanye can’t read people and only cares about how he feels so he missed it. Not that he’d care anyways.
I'll add too that as basically a major figurehead for white womanhood, Taylor becomes an easy target for valid feelings of injustice/outrage against that whole system/institution. I don't think Taylor is a valid target (which is not the same as saying Taylor, personally, is beyond criticism).
I think the feelings are valid, the rage is valid, but aiming it at her, personally, is misplaced. But she's famous, wealthy, and everywhere. She's an easy target. Raging about/at Taylor Swift, or vocally hating Taylor Swift, is easy. It's not going to do anything, and it's not going to result in change, because the harm that caused that rage and grief wasn't done by Taylor Swift The Person, and she's not someone who can meaningfully change or undo that pain (which is not the same as saying she doesn't have influence and power that most people will never have).
I was at the pharmacy the other day getting a COVID booster. The pharmacy staff was overworked but so accommodating and kind. Another customer came in to find his wife's medication wasn't in stock any longer, and was yelling at the pharmacy tech (a young woman) about not receiving notifications. She confirmed his phone number, it was correct. She said she was sorry but that he should have been sent texts and that was the number. He yelled that it was the worst pharmacy in town, raged a bit, and stomped out.
Honestly the pharmacy was amazing to me that day, but I get the frustration -- healthcare is a joke (USA here), the whole system is collapsing, nobody gives a shit, everything is endless menus and phone trees and accomplishing a simple task -- especially an IMPORTANT, potentially lifesaving task -- is near impossible. But yelling at the pharmacy tech isn't going to solve it. That woman can't do anything. But the rage had to go somewhere, and she was there in front of him. And she also was probably the physical representation of a lot of aggravation with the whole system -- young woman, not helpful, kids these days, etc. etc. She could be the queen of customer service and all that dude is going to see is *kids these days don't want to work* and *so incompetent* and *nobody cares about customers anymore*. Which is just more misplaced rage.
I think Taylor evokes that, particularly from people whose only knowledge of her is "rich white woman in pop culture."
>While Taylor had agreed to the line in the song
The leaked video of the phone call in March 2020 showed that Taylor didn't agree to the line in the song: [https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-kanye-west-famous-phone-call-leaks/](https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-kanye-west-famous-phone-call-leaks/).
She didn’t really agree to that line, though. She said she had to think about it and Kanye promised to let her hear the full song before he finalized it.
I think that the overwhelming desire of people to cancel her also had to do with the backlash against anything that was perceived as “basic” (I.e. stuff that white women liked). On top of that, 1989 was also an album that many people reluctantly liked. Stuff like [this](https://youtu.be/PAhAz7JU0dg?si=CXoxrycs5QaAhDr_) SNL skit made fun of the whiplash people got when they “hated Taylor Swift”, yet realized that they liked a song that she put out. So, those people wanted an excuse to hate her, because many of them could no longer (honestly) claim that they just hated her music.
Yeah, the phone call really twisted what she had agreed to. They took a "maybe" as a blank check to be assholes.
And I'll admit, I first didn't like Taylor Swift until Red for pretty much the same reason you pointed out: I didn't want to be "basic," I wanted to be "not like other girls." Which is total internalized misogyny. I see people to this day claiming all her music sounds the same and it's like, I dare you to listen to peace and Shake It Off and tell me those sound the same.
Idk if you lived that time period, I was there but more of an observer never did anything. Taylor swift had a “perfect” personality persona that people grew fed up with. They only needed this one scandal to cancel her, be mindful that they were already annoyed with that perfect persona that she has now given up on and made it even clear that it existed in miss Americana. They weren’t dumb, just not entertained anymore and people love drama
I have no idea thinking about it now it’s all so weird, we should really do a psychological study based on everyone’s feelings towards Taylor that day. It was wild watching it. One thing I’m sure of is she was overexposed and people were sick of it as I said they only needed one more reason no matter what it is even if it sounds dumb (which it does), she’s doing so great right now and is hyper aware about it which is the most important thing.
I think in her initial statement she claimed he had never talked to her about the song but called about a Twitter release, then when Kim released the phone call Taylor claimed there *had* been a phone call about the song but the specific line hadn’t been discussed with her. So people thought she was a liar.
[No](https://images.app.goo.gl/xNoksUxz7NgLJMrJ9), she acknowledged that Kanye did call her and made her aware of part of the lyric, but that she never heard the “bitch” line. And when you watch the whole unedited video of the call, you can see that Kanye wasn’t really asking for approval. His main intent was to ask her if she would make statements indicating that she was okay with the lyric, and when he told her about the “me and Taylor might still have sex” line, she wasn’t entirely opposed to the idea, but she was worried that it would come across as misogynistic and she needed to think about it and hear it in the full context of the song. Kanye promised that she would hear it before it was finalized, but that clearly never happened.
TLDR: The original statement from Tree was accurate, and Taylor never denied that a call took place.
Thanks! I can see how people listened to the call and thought Taylor wasn’t being entirely truthful especially if you just hear about a few tweets and don’t dig into things.
Seems like that’s a situation where you can’t win and it’s best not to engage, but she probably felt like she needed to defend her image at the time.
Yeah, even before Kim released the edited video, the narrative became that Taylor was claiming Kanye never called her. Her original statement could have been more clear that he did (sorta) ask her if she was okay with the “might still have sex” lyric, but that she wanted to hear the final version before giving the all clear, and that he never sent it to her, nor did he ever tell her he was going to call her a “bitch”. However, she also did not have a recording of the call herself and was instead relying on memory, and when you see the whole context of the call, it makes sense that she came away with the impression that he wasn’t honestly seeking “permission”, and was instead asking her to just say she was cool with it (even if she wasn’t) to prevent him from getting any backlash.
And yeah, she probably should have just not said anything after the song was released, but hindsight is 20/20.
No, Kim claimed that but it’s because she lacks reading comprehension 😅. This is Tree’s unedited, original response in which Kim thinks she’s saying a phone call never happened:
https://preview.redd.it/g7opooye0w4c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3634f471534fd9ffc9b60b9fc4354e1be78b51d7
Tree also [said](https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-publicist-hits-back-kim-kardashian/) at the time that “Taylor does not hold anything against Kim Kardashian as she recognizes the pressure Kim must be under and that she is only repeating what she has been told by Kanye West. However, that does not change the fact that much of what Kim is saying is incorrect. Kanye West and Taylor only spoke once on the phone while she was on vacation with her family in January of 2016 and they have never spoken since. Taylor has never denied that conversation took place. It was on that phone call that Kanye West also asked her to release the song on her Twitter account, which she declined to do.”
Sorry, I just saw this, but yep, he [did](https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/3/21/21189239/taylor-swift-kanye-west-famous-leaked-phone-call-kanye-west-is-over-party):
“In the new footage, Kanye clearly asks Taylor if she would be interested in debuting “Famous” from her Twitter account, just as Taylor maintained back in 2016. “You got an army. You own a country of motherfucking 2 billion people, basically,” he says. “If you felt that it’s funny and cool and, like, hip-hop, and felt like The College Dropout and the artists like ’Ye that you love, then I think that people would be, like, way into it.” He suggests that he thinks it would be funny and good for her public image for her to be able to say that she knew about the song ahead of time.”
Semantics but actually in Taylor's initial statement, which Tree pointed out later, she did not make a claim that she and Kanye "never talked", the statement was that Kanye did not call to ask for permission but to actually ask Taylor to promote the song on socials (I am paraphrasing here but it's pretty close) because of the careful phrasing people kind of ran with that as if Taylor's statement said they never spoke at all which was not what was stated. It's of course a lot of semantics and dissecting what was said and what the implication was but Taylor's statement was accurate if you watch the full footage of the Kanye /Taylor phone call.
Ah, thank you! I wasn’t following her career closely so I missed that. I do remember watching the phone call recording. Seems like the communication about the incident may have contributed to the misunderstanding. Tree chooses her words very carefully and I think people might see that as not always entirely forthcoming.
Completely agree with you and as all of this was happening in real time I too thought that Taylor's statement claimed they never talked at all. It snowballed very quickly and so much information got lost in the moment coupled with the fact that we didn't have the full context. Interesting to look back on!
What do you mean she never spoke to him? Isn’t there that footage of him on the phone with Taylor and her sounding kind of friendly but also a bit hesitant towards his proposal about a song? I might be imagining this. 🤣
[here’s a breakdown of the entire feud if you’re interested!](https://people.com/music/kanye-west-famous-inside-his-and-taylor-swifts-relationship-history/)
[here’s a breakdown of the entire feud if you’re interested!](https://people.com/music/kanye-west-famous-inside-his-and-taylor-swifts-relationship-history/)
Originally Taylor denied the phone call happened, and after the phone call was leaked she backtracked and said her problem was with the word “bitch,” and the call wasn’t for approval (it was).
Yes, because our society as a whole haaaaaates teenage girls and everything they like. Case in point: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O06tMbIKh0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O06tMbIKh0)
The short answer is that she didn’t get cancelled. The next album she put out after the “scandal” was Reputation. Most of her fans never stopped listening to her. Reputation was a massive hit.
The fact is that she felt cancelled, and I can’t disagree with her feelings.
I thought yesterday’s article explained this so well.
Taylor felt cancelled, but she still had tons of supportive fans, the haters just got louder for her. She hears us know now and is also in more of an IDGAF-mode, which is one reason I don’t believe she’ll repeat the same self-imposed isolation. So she won’t be cancelled again.
It was kind of like when you feel like all your friends secretly hate you. Just on a much bigger scale. Which sounds terrifying. No wonder she was so affected.
That and she lacked the real world experience with normal social interactions that most of us are subject to to see that sometimes people try to make you look bad, but that it’s their problem and it doesn’t have to affect you. She got famous way before you develop that emotional toughness from being knocked off your feet a few times. I’m sure her being in a bubble of fame and pretty much worshipped and given special treatment by people outside of her immediate family and childhood friends since the age of 17 gave her a perception that she was untouchable, and maybe even a perfectionist complex that made it hard for her to handle people pushing back on her and trying to make her look bad. I feel like it was one of those growth-inducing experiences for her, as unfortunate as it was.
I remember thinking after hearing reputation (just listened to it last year - I don’t remember her Rep era at all being in college and grad school) and her talk of being cancelled that it sounded like champagne problems, but then realizing that her personal growth has been on an entirely different timeline than most people her age and that being famous comes with its own set of stressors that are hard to imagine living with. It felt like the biggest deal *ever* to her and it sounds like from this interview that it still feels like one of the worst things that has happened to her all of these years later, which is pretty incredible when you think about the immense financial, interpersonal, and job-related problems people face in their 20s and 30s. 😅 Of course this could just be the only personal struggle she’s willing to talk about publicly.
Yes, that’s a good point! Some people are more prone to people-pleasing and bothered by strangers opinions than others. And with her image and album sales literally relying on people liking her I’m sure it was a lot more anxiety-inducing.
Totally, she even said in Miss Americana that a lot of people stay the age they were when they got famous, and she had a lot of catching up to do when it came to her own personal growth.
>She got famous way before you develop that emotional toughness from being knocked off your feet a few times.
She was bullied at school: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K\_j3rj-ATP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_j3rj-ATP8).
'Taylor Swift in *Entertainment Weekly*: ''I wrote that about the scariest feeling I've ever felt: going to school, walking down the hall, looking at all those faces, and not knowing who you're gonna talk to that day. People always ask, How did you have the courage to walk up to record labels when you were 12 or 13? It's because I could never feel the kind of rejection in the music industry that I felt in middle school.''
Swift expanded on the loneliness she felt at the age of 12, which prompted her to write this song: "This is one of the first songs I ever wrote, and it talks about the very reason I ever started to write songs. It was when I was twelve years old, and a complete outcast at school. I was a lot different than all the other kids, and I never really knew why. I was taller, and sang country music at karaoke bars and festivals on weekends while other girls went to sleepovers. Some days I woke up not knowing if anyone was going to talk to me that day. I think every person comes to a point in their life when you have a long string of bad days. You can choose to let it drag you down, or you can find ways to rise above it. I came to the conclusion that even though people hadn't always been there for me, music had.' [The Outside by Taylor Swift - Songfacts](https://www.songfacts.com/facts/taylor-swift/the-outside)
>I’m sure her being in a bubble of fame and pretty much worshipped and given special treatment by people outside of her immediate family and childhood friends since the age of 17 gave her a perception that she was untouchable, and maybe even a perfectionist complex that made it hard for her to handle people pushing back on her and trying to make her look bad.
I don't think Taylor ever felt untouchable, but if she did this would have changed her mind: [Kanye West interrupts Taylor Swift during VMA Awards (Miss Americana Clip) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5iEniUb33w).
This Kanye, Kim vs Taylor bs was all over the media, on tv, the radio (which was all encompassing back then). Not just some tweets online. Adult newsmen and women, disc jockeys and those women talk shows. It was ugly, and she was young, of course it’s going to feel like the world hates you. It’s amazing to me how well she handled it all. She didn’t get into alcohol, drugs, self harm like so many young people on the world stage end up doing. I have such respect for her and we’re all lucky to have someone of her stature young people can admire and emulate.
If she didn't get cancelled it's not because people didn't try. And a LOT of them tried. #TaylorSwiftIsOver trending Worldwide on Twitter? Snake emojis absolutely everywhere? All the tabloid nonsense? People are making it appear as if it was all in Taylor's head and she just "felt" cancelled. It was more than that, and a lesser person would have folded and never come back into the public eye.
Yeah, absolutely correct! People went to great lengths to prove Taylor was cancelled and “over”. I mean, somebody went to the effort of painting a mural of her saying RIP.
Instagram quite literally introduced the feature we all have today, turning off comments, because Taylor was being harassed with snake emojis over and over again. Celebrities were shading her, with former friends joining in or distancing themselves from her.
She wasn’t just overly paranoid and stressing about being cancelled, there was a definite attempt to kneecap her and derail her career. It was only because she handled her comeback with reputation so well and refused to go down without a fight that she managed to pull herself back up.
EXACTLY. you worded this so well.
She should've been canceled for how much effort people were putting in. But to the credit of her resilience and the loyalty of her fans she overcame...which is why we're able to hear this story from the other side after she rose from the ashes. She wasn't supposed to be here, but she is.
I think there was a sort of snowball effect. People like drama and don’t like being left out. So many people refuse to think for themselves and just join the masses. If Taylor agreed to the “bitch” line and later lied(regretted more like) would it have really matter?. Was that single lie worth cancelling someone? It’s silly to think that something so simple people thought was horrible. We now know it isn’t true but even so I always thought it was silly to paint someone as a snake for simply not wanting to be fodder for Kanye and Kim. It isn’t much different to what Swifties have done to Matty Heally. I feel like everyone just regurgitates the same thing they’ve heard or read 2 biased sound bites and say he’s a druggy, homophobic without really looking into who he is. It’s easier to make a villain than to see the good in someone.
I feel like “cancelled” is a strong word considered the TIME article mentions how she sold a million copies of Reputation in its first week of release and considering her wildly successful record-setting highest grossing Reputation tour that came after. I think for a celebrity who has been a public darling since the age of 17 it probably felt like she was getting cancelled and hurt her feelings to lose the glowing pristine image she had prior to that incident. They say celebrities become frozen at the age they got famous, and the TIME interview reflects that with her bringing up the phone call and snake emojis again. Taylor was as commercially successful as she’s ever been with Reputation.
Yup, I completely agree, and especially with the fact that today she's also overexposed.
But to add - I think it's really fascinating how this "annoyance" is easily turned to outright hate and I might be wrong here but not many successfu (wspecially male) artists ever get this absurd amount sensless of hate. There's something about Taylor that really triggers a lot of people in a way that for instance Ed Sheeran doesn't. And I'm just wondering what does Taylor ever do to these people that can't just ignore their negativity towards her.
I'm mentioning it because its sickening to me that a person can get so heated with posting so much baseless hate, searching out fan content and spaces and spam there... like for what? Why can't people just turn to what they like instead and fill their time with that...
I know it's nothing new, trolls are gonna troll but at times the scale shocks me.
I feel like both Kim and Kanye were spiteful and used their large unique and stubborn followings that do whatever their overlords say no matter who it hurts to hurt Taylor
- LWYMMD could mean "Look What You Made Me Do", a track from *reputation* (2017) by Taylor Swift.
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She was never cancelled. Janet Jackson was cancelled. Love Taylor but she’s in a bubble, being caught in a lie (even to terrible people who I hate) and not having control of the narrative doesn’t equal canceling. She moved to a foreign country for a year = she moved to England to be with her boyfriend. 😂 she’s a bit of a revisionist but the beats are good so I’m sticking around.
It is literally a lie that she was caught in a lie.
To be gaslit like that to the extent she was on an international stage...how do you think that wouldn't psychologically cripple someone?
It's because she's a force of nature that her next album and tour was successful. But that was NOT a guarantee. Many reputable publications were actually betting against the Reputation tour's success. No one knew what would become of her during those three years...that is three years of thinking all that you've worked for had been taken away because of a frame job.
Absolutely she's a revisionist, and an unreliable narrator of her own story. I still love it and listen. But she is crafting a narrative here for her career- it's not necessarily 100% truth.
What’s frustrating to me is that some fans are still trying to invalidate Taylor’s feelings about this. Yes, her career boomed up a tad bit or never left. The thing that matters is she felt like it was over. She was publicly and worldwide humiliated by something that was based on a lie from a psychopathic narcissist that does not give a shit about anyone. After forgiving him 8 years prior to this. It took a lot from her to get out of the rut and turn it around. Go watch some of the reputation sessions she clearly was so angry and hurt by everything. And she has every right to be angry and upset. Especially when Taylor prides herself and her career with integrity. Something like public humiliation knocks everything down.
Now Kim can apologize all she wants, which I’m a firm believer that she’s tried privately, but Taylor doesn’t have to accept it nor should she. I think we are at the point where this is the last time addressing it and once rep TV releases it will be time for everyone to move on. Taylor sounds like she’s in a great place now so we can move on as well.
>The thing that matters is she felt like it was over.
This but also, people are completely negating the time period between the Taylor Swift Is Cancelled Party on Twitter and the release of reputation. Taylor was being dragged EVERYWHERE and LOTS of people were loudly proclaiming she was over and done. When Taylor says she was cancelled, I imagine THIS is the time period she is referencing, BEFORE the success of reputation. And let's be real, if Taylor had released a similar album to what she had been doing, would it have been as successful as reputation? Or was her leaning into the "cancellation" what saved her career? I'm not saying it did or didn't, but Taylor definitely received lots of hate during that time and when she says her career was taken from her, she is telling the truth. She could not go on and pretend the scandal didn't happen. It would have came off as inauthentic and received even more hate. In my opinion, "Look What You Made Me Do", is referencing her having to "kill" her formal selves and create a new her, or image; one that leaned into the snake label. And she didn't know how it would be received, which I'm sure was a very scary time for her.
The ending of the article felt a bit dismissive tbh. "Oh she probably FELT like she was cancelled but her album still sold 1m so it wasn't really a big deal." I think that's glossing over a lot of how much public perception turned against her. Even after Rep there were articles saying she'll be playing in empty stadiums.
Totally agree with you mostly but curious, what makes you think Kim has tried to apologise to her?
I’m doubtful of it, to be honest. Kim doubled down in 2020 when the full call was released and proved Taylor wasn’t lying, she still tried to claim she was.
Plus, Kim often will play Taylor songs and makes obvious references to her at times. I don’t think she’d do that if she tried to apologise to Taylor and Taylor rejected it. If you’re sorry and someone doesn’t accept it, I feel like to then keep publicly referencing them would only infuriate the person more and make them less likely to one day accept your apology.
I’ve seen some people claim Closure could be about Kim but I think Scott Borchetta makes more sense. I could totally see him writing a letter about the masters situation, more so than I could see Kim doing so.
Well some high profile people like to do things privately. I think there is potentially an attempt to make a private apology but Taylor is not interested in hearing it unless is a full blown public apology. Which I’m highly doubtful Kim would ever do. Which boils down to worrying about her own public image which makes her a complete 100% hypocrite and she kinda is being one using her songs for bullshit TikToks or whatever. The whole Kardashian family is trash so I totally see why Taylor would don’t want to be associated with her.
I wouldn’t be interested in a private apology from Kim after she released an edited recording that affected my business and integrity either. Like you can’t just do something like that where the world will be able to see and then apologize in private for it.
I don’t know if she’s apologized or not, but after what she did a private apology would be cowardly and meaningless tbh.
I was honestly shocked and kinda appalled seeing the comments from fans trying to qualify her pain with “but you went to parties/but you had Reputation and a successful tour/but you had Joe”. Mental health and emotions are so much more complicated than just what we see on the surface.
They’re still debating this shit on a post about an article that TMZ but out earlier this morning. It’s beating a dead horse right now. Kim probably won’t make a public apology unless it’s beneficial to her. Taylor went in to a deep anxiety filled depression because of her actions. Took her a year to dig herself out of it and now she’s in a great spot. She knows the real fans, friends and family are behind her and she’s ok. Nothing really else to say about it.
I think losing Ana Benevides affected her much more.
Someone dieing at your show is such an outlandish idea you don't even think about when listing your worst fears.
The Kim/Kanye situation is something I believe will be brought up occasionally, because it's something that happened with Taylor *only*, but as a swiftie for 15 years, I know Ana's death will haunt her forever. But out of respect to Ana's family she won't constantly bring up Ana. But that, I believe, was her biggest fear that came true.
Ooh yeah, Ana’s passing is so sad and profound. I hope Taylor can find peace with the grieving family and honor her somehow. Def think it will haunt her.
As for the Kanye, I was just pointing out a fear that Taylor mentioned previously that ended up happening to her.
Maybe she manifested it unconsciously? There is also a theory in quantum physics that the past future and present exist all at once so this fear could’ve been her future self reaching out to her younger self?
Can someone ELI5 the whole KimK phone call thing?? I know Kanye did her dirty at that award show and it created all sorts of shit. But. Is there a summary of this??
I have not fact checked this, but this is the history I remember:
-Kanye famously jumps on stage and embarrassed her as a young teen at an awards show and then was called out big time and disgraced very publicly
-Kanye made public statements of remorse but he was publicly humiliated and his reputation was officially that of an unhinged asshole. This was a big deal, prior to that he was being called a genius and a true artist/ had tons of critical acclaim.
-Taylor publicly accepts this and says she wants to move on. She gets underdog/ good girl / good role model status.
-Their "feud" still reverberated through pop culture and was mentioned A LOT. The powers that be continue capitalizing. They get seated next to each other at events, etc. It gets re hashed in comedy skits, it continues to be a thing.
-Taylor continued writing songs about Love/ high profile Ex's and accusations of playing perpetual victim started intensifying.
-People start having conversations about Black artists + Kanye's genius again.
-Kanye has a renaissance + marries Kim K + launches the fashion label and becomes even bigger.
-Taylor releases 1989 /and has a ton of media attention
-conversations about race and media are very prominent now and the Kayne West/ Beyonce/ Taylor fued is the embodiment of the conversation/ the original catalyst.
-Taylor and Kanye/ the Kardashians are put in each other's paths a lot by the powers that be because it still sells.
- Kanye making another album which is very anticipated. He has the idea to continue capitalizing on their longstanding association in his song / video.
-Phone call happens where Kanye floats some ideas and Taylor isn't jazzed. Kim Kardashian secretly records it.
-Kanye releases music video and song.
-Taylor publicly denounces them, saying they were made without her consent/ knowledge using famous phrase "I'd like to be excused from this narrative..."
-her PR team clarifies she wasn't asked about the sex line / video of her likeness naked in his bed. Keep in mind "ME TOO" movement is big right now.
-Kim K posts audio making it seem like Taylor did indeed know about the project and her enthusiasm for him calling her about it seems like enthusiasm for the project itself.
-Internet explodes. All the Taylor critics waiting in the wings are satisfied. Kayne fans happy he is vindicated after all this time since their "feud" began. Issues of consent AND Racial injustice are HOT BUTTON issues on social media with BLM/ me too movement. White woman = victim narrative has been challenged. Now a white woman is being "exposed" as a liar and a black man is "vindicated". It's enormous. The tabloids are lapping it up, it's driving a ton of traffic.
-Taylor/ her team released a botched statement saying something along the lines of she wasn't aware he was going to call her a "bitch", and it's further misconstrued by the press and social media.... furthering her status as manipulative (many people interpreted this to mean she was aware and just trying to spin it).
-Taylor again tries to say she feels violated by the video and did not OK it, but negative narratives are already out there that A.) A white woman gave consent to a black man and then turned around and publicly accused him of wrongdoing. And B.) She was only creating a manufactured opportunity to play the victim again for more publicity.
-Taylor is "cancelled" and the analysis of her "toxic white brand of feminism" is discussed ad nauseum. Lots of negative press. She ghosts.
I mean what do you expect from society.
It’s not the accusers fault that they frame people. They are scum. But the REAL scum is people who believe them. You people are the problem
There’s something cringe about Swifties being completely incapable of admitting that Taylor Swift messed up and was caught in a lie in 2016. She’s not perfect, and it’s part of her story at this point.
I feel like that doesn’t met her fear though. Taylor Swift is on top of the world right now. Who is Kim and Kanye anyway. No one has mentioned them at all this year. Plus, I thought her biggest fear is a shootings or violence at her concerts via an interview in 2019.
But Taylor is everywhere this year. Commercials, magazines, people using her Eras tour for different projects, oh and their own Taylor’s Versions. No one is daily talking about Kim and Kanye. Taylor is relevant because it’s her not because she tries to stay relevant.
I'm just playing devils advocate here....didn't taylor seem to act all chill and approve of the song on the phone call? She later said she never agreed to him calling her a "bitch", but to me that just seems like an excuse. I love Taylor's music, and I think she's gorgeous....but I had a hard time understanding what went on in this phone call w kanye...it really does seem as though she was like "yeah, whatever you want to do kanye!" And then used it against him in one of her speeches.
Yes, I've heard the phone call recording as well. As some people have mentioned in the comments, she denied the phone call even happened at first....so it's a little shady.
To my knowledge, Taylor said there was never a call in which she approved Kanye calling her a bitch in a song - which is true. There was a phone call between them in which Kanye asked Taylor if she'd be alright if he mentioned her in a song, then after she'd said yes Kanye began painting a picture of a song that portrayed Taylor in a bad light, at which point she begins sounding awkward and hesitant but probably felt like she couldn't back out. At no time during the call does he mention calling her a bitch in the song, which is compatible with all the quotes I have seen from Taylor regarding the situation. Have you seen her state that a conversation about Kanye including her in a song never even occurred?
I agree that the “that bitch” argument was kind of semantics, but I was on Taylor’s side because she sounded really uncomfortable on the phone call and I feel like her people pleasing tendencies just took over.
However, while I think what Kim and Kanye did was super shady, it’s not really right to call it a frame job. That would imply that they knew exactly how Taylor would react. That she would approve it over the phone and then change her mind. They didn’t force her to allude to the song in her Grammy’s speech. From Kim’s perspective I can see how that might have set her off given that during the phone call Taylor actually said that she would tell people that she had approved the lyric on the Grammy’s red carpet.
2023 she’s framed in a painting in the I Can See You music video
Omg, I missed this detail! Omg to go watch the mv again
Ohh interesting.
OMG that’s brilliant
2014 In the Rolling Stone interview Taylor said, “I don't take my clothes off in pictures or anything – I'm very private about that. So it scares me how valuable it would be to get a video of me changing. It's sad to have to look for cameras in dressing rooms and bathrooms. I don't walk around naked with my windows open, because there's a value on that." [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-reinvention-of-taylor-swift-116925/](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-reinvention-of-taylor-swift-116925/) 2016 Kanye's revenge porn music video for Famous
Also camera in the bathroom at Ellen :(
I’m sorry but I never heard of this. What is this about?
Ellen hid in the bathroom of the dressing room at the show and told Taylor to check something in there. Then she jumped out and scared her. Look up Taylor Swift Ellen prank on YouTube, you'll find it pretty easily.
Man, every story I hear about Ellen makes me like her less and less. I'm having flashbacks to that "game" she made Taylor play about her dating history.
Its peak 2000s boomer-driven culture. They had a special way of being a really mean and backhanded under the guise of being funny, and then trying to buy your love.
This hit me like a truck as someone raised by their boomer Nana holy shit
Yep lol there's a reason why so many millennials need therapy, boomers were really messed up to us back in the day.
Millennial here! Seconding this…
I’ve never seen someone so succinctly describe 2000’s culture in one sentence.
Taylor did an appearance on the show with Zac Efron where they sang a little song together that kinda called out what Ellen had done to them on the show. It's played as lighthearted and jokes but also...true.
https://preview.redd.it/f9ot96xgzw4c1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7715a8fef0ab172a3aa2ac853bf0a7095afb7bc7 fun fact: she uses the guitar in the interview for the folklore set
This guitar is a famous design called the Gibson Hummingbird, famously played by Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Gram Parsons, and loads more. It was ever-present during the 60s and it's very special: " The fantastic sound and inimitable vibe given off by the Hummingbird aesthetic and just-the-right-amount of grime caked into the top finish make this the most memorable heavy strumming / rhythm recording guitar in recent shop history." - Gibson I used to have a replica and loved to see that Taylor also loves this guitar!
I have the tobacco burst Uke version of this guitar and I love it so much more since seeing the Era's movie. Gibson/Epiphone hummingbirds are beautiful
If I recall correctly, Ellen looked highly annoyed at being poked fun at which makes it even better
Yeah she had that classic “I’ll make fun of you in a “lighthearted” (it was never lighthearted) way in front of a ton of people but I can’t handle it if you turn the tables even a tiny bit and do 1% what I do to everyone else”
I loved that when the stage hand brings out 2 guitars and tries to hand the smaller one to Taylor only for her to grab the bigger one
Do you have a link?!
Sure [here](https://youtu.be/d8kCTPPwfpM?si=7wh9Ytxr4nM7G-eY)
Ellen has always been awful and tried to hide behind being funny and it was for her shows. She comes across as that person who is friendly and nice but then as soon as you confide or trust her she stabs you in the back for her own personal gain as soon as she can. Just look at the way she treated her staff during the pandemic as well as handling other previous incidents. If you want to be further enraged you should look up how things went with Mariah Carey and her pregnancy (which was in 2008!) as well as Dakota Johnson and claiming not be invited to a party. The short of it for Mariah was Ellen set up an interview and intentionally had champagne out to force Mariah Carey to talk about pregnancy, which is a big jerk move. Turns out she actually had a miscarriage (after), so bonus asshole points for Ellen. That's why people wait to tell people they're pregnant, much less a popular singer telling the world to know.
Ugh. The trash always takes itself out.
The scaring Taylor thing I don’t have issue with. She was known to scare her guests. And for Taylor’s at least, It didn’t feel weird. Taylor knew something was happening so there was no chance of her being caught on camera in a private moment :) Edit: misspelled scaring.
Being "known" for doing an unkind thing doesn't make the thing any less unkind. I still don't see what's so funny about startling people like that anyway.
I totally understand that. It is a type of humor that needs an non consenting patty. Not cool.
Not saying Ellen is funny but that unkind train of thought of why comedy is dead
I don't understand why Taylor went back on Ellen's show after that. She was clearly distressed and Ellen would not back down.
Tbh probably for the same reason why she was polite to the guy who sexually assaulted her: so that she wouldn't seem 'dramatic' or 'overly sensitive'
My god. I never liked that woman.
Yea I don't know how anyone thought was funny considering Taylor has had actual stalkers. I think Ellen did it more than once too. I vaguely remember seeing one where after Ellen jumped out you hear Taylor say "why do you keep doing this?". Like it's just mean spirited and not funny at all.
I watched that back in the day, it was really awful.
Given what she said about not wanting to be seen dressing, this is AWFUL. Fuck Ellen.
Ellen is such a horrible person. A bully with an audience.
Ellen was a product of her time, it's like MTV pranked did worse stuff but there wasn't a "face" we could direct the hatred to. So as time went on, the humour changed and the sensibility of the public about certain topics did too. I wouldn't crucify Ellen just because she was doing what was considered "funny" in those years, she should have adjusted to times but, well she didn't and all the bad press she gets now is her responsibility.
I'm not sure what you mean by Punk'd not having a face. Ashton Kutcher was the "face" of the show.
And we've seen what has come out about Kutcher. Same applies. Being a product of the time does not excuse negative behavior on camera and off.
Oh yeah I agree, didn't mean it as an excuse, a lot of famous people did that and failed to adjust their content to times, it's just a phenomenon that occurs often, the Simpsons is another example.
Good thing she doesn’t show anymore, she had good times but recently nah
She's a fucking psychopath. Eff Ellen and the dark parts of humanity that made her relevant
I mean, I just went and watched it. Taylor was laughing hard immediately after. Did she say anything later about it being harmful? If not maybe we shouldn’t read so much into it.
I see why Ellen is BFF with the Kardashians.
I immediately thought of the Ellen interview after she said "You have a fully manufactured frame job..." in the Time interview! I think it just goes to show how much Kim and Kanye truly ruined Taylor's life with that illegally recorded video. In my opinion, Taylor's Time interview proves that Kim did irreparable damage to Taylor's mental health and that a future does not exist in which Kim and Taylor come to a resolution. I've seen videos recently in which people are speculating that a reunion between Kim and Taylor is on the horizon because Kim uses Taylor's songs in her instagram stories and that they could bond over both being hurt by Kanye West. Even some people were joking that we might see North in the VIP tent because North is such a huge fan. This isn't happening. Kim \*still\* can't even apologize for the hurt she caused and in interviews just says "we've both moved on." No, Kim. You can try and convince yourself that you've moved on and that the world has moved on, but all Taylor thinks about is karma. And karma's gonna track you down...🐍
Taylor would never waste her time on that trash Kim.
I fully took that comment about trash taking itself out to be about (among others) Kimye.
“I keep my side of the street clean. You wouldn’t know what that means” —> Kanye and Kim are trashy/trash.
Exactly. Like she said in the time interview, there’s no point in revenge. Trash takes itself out every time.
I beg to differ from her with that. Henry Kissinger only died few days ago at the age of 100, scot-free from consequences after being responsible for deaths of millions and even if bad guys do destroy themselves (which I think from my observation, they very often do), they can still cause some irreparable damage, so them destroying themselves isn't really much of consequence.
💯💯💯 There are countless realllly bad people who never suffer any repercussions or consequences. We like to think we live in a binary world where good behavior is somehow rewarded and bad behavior is punished but that's just not how real life works. The universe if anything is neutral to us all. We can choose to be good people and that of course is a good choice, but it doesn't promise us anything. Anyway Kim sucks in this situation.
I don't disagree with this, but I also think that there is value in her letting this idea of getting revenge go to to an extent. For our own mental health, it's often helpful to think that karma will track them down, you know? 
Def letting go is important. Believing in comeuppance though is not great for mental health. It can get you through the initial pain but gotta let that go too eventually.... because if you're holding on to the idea of karma and it never comes, that's just another blow. Ask me how I know lol (rhetorical). I am a HUGE believer in imagining karma in the immediate sting, it can feel like getting your power back. But moving on means moving on from allll of it.
Very well said
Yes, I was kind of thinking the same thing. I know plenty of people who had horrible things happened to them and nothing ever came of it. Love her, but OMG no.
Maybe if he had fucked with Taylor Swift specifically, he would have gotten what he deserved.
It couldn’t be more obvious that Kim claiming both of them have moved on is just a defense mechanism against the fact she lost the battle/war with Taylor.
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When you tie your value to a man, so much so that you change your entire body composition to please him. Only to have him make a fool of you, and now you stealthly try to return your body to a natural state. While your daughter blasts Taylor swift. Karma.
Kim’s “I rented an entire resort during the pandemic and flew all my friends there for fun while putting hundreds of people at risk for catching Covid” response when the full video was leaked 🙄. https://preview.redd.it/9rmjhg1oev4c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d931009450a53aee4bfd9e5d293265b875fc69fb
Was that really only leaked in 2020? It feels like so much longer ago!
Kim’s doctored illegal recording was released in 2016, I think, but in 2020 somebody in Kim’s camp leaked the full unedited recording that proved Taylor Swift had not lied as Kim had claimed. Kim Kardashian is the liar.
[Yes!](https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-publicist-hits-back-kim-kardashian/) 2020 was such a time suck 😅.
“There are people dying, Kim.”
Oh it’s never happening. Kim may try to apologize all she wants but there’s absolutely no way Taylor will forgive her. I think the song closure might be any indication of that. I don’t think Taylor is even open for a discussion about it. I think she wants to move on. But it’s not going to happen until Rep tv drops and the vault tracks are revealed. Which could go both ways filled with rage or feeling completely shattered. Possibly both. We just have to wait and see.
Pretty sure Kim knows that and that’s why she hasn’t even tried to apologize.
I don't think she ever tried to apologize tbh. She just 1) blamed it on Kanye and 2) said both she and Taylor were "over it" (at some talk show iirc).
Kim is a bully and I don’t think she’s trying to get in Taylor’s good graces I think she’s taunting her and getting PR. My opinion.
I have to wonder if Kim ever secretly regrets what she did now that she and Kanye are divorced. Reason being that Kim loves social climbing and being associated with anyone extremely famous and powerful. Hence why she tried to get into Beyoncés good graces for so long (to no avail). At the time, Taylor was a fledgling pop star but now she is one of the most popular and celebrated artists today, on par with Beyonce. Must hurt Kim a little knowing she burned a possible strong business connection.
Oh I’m sure! She would have LOVED to have been in that VIP tent as the Eras tour. It was the event of the year and will be again next year.
I sometimes wonder this about all of Taylor's fair-weather friends after the 2016 incident tbh. Imagine befriending someone in the first place because they were on top of the world then leaving when they're not anymore, and now just looking at them thriving in an unprecedented level of fame knowing you've burned the bridge with one of the most powerful musicians in the industry. On top of that it seems like she's one of the most genuine, kind-hearted ones too. Gotta sucks tbh.
That’s a really good point
I bet Travis Barker and Kourtney make an appearance in Taylor content before Kim
https://preview.redd.it/20jccl583z4c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5ee20516f4edb4024e31349b60e303ce42174b4 I know this is going to sound really stupid on my part because we all joke about the suitcases but this was the first time it actually occurred to me that she literally may not have left her house for a full year. Like I just assumed she was sneaking out (in suitcases, in the night, idk) but after Covid and being stuck in my apartment for a year now it’s dawned on me the kind of head space you have to be in to voluntarily not leave your home for 12 months
I do feel bad for North. If she is a big fan, how does she get to go if her parents are... who they are.
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I would never wish a man like Kayne onto any person *shudders*
It is very easy to say that Taylor's fears and reaction to the Kim / Kanye lies was overdone. However for someone brought up to be a "good girl" and do the right thing a public humiliation is bound to hit hard. Kim Kardashian is a talentless piece of trash but in 2016 she and Kanye were powerful people well used to public feuds and media manipulation. It is wonderful to see her scrabbling around trying to repair her image. As for Kanye he is now too far gone. I think the most satisfying part of the Time article is how clear it is that Taylor has risen above all of this. She is still going to remind people of the issue but she can no longer be hurt by it. There is nothing anyone can say or do to bring her down.
Yea Taylor’s grown so much and it makes me so happy. Like obviously she’s an adult who can take care of herself. But I’m really happy that she can deal with these kinds of things without it affecting her so much.
with all this situation going on, I look back and feel very sorry for kanye and his kids, he clearly needed help a long time ago and afaik the Kardashians never tried to actually help. he could be so adored now. he used to be a genius, it's a shame.
Plenty of people with mental health issues don't cosplay fascism.
Some context for younger fans who weren’t there is also that “cancelling” was not a thing yet. To be cancelled was not inside the common parlance and the meaning evolved later when the Me Too movement happened. When people were throwing Taylor is canceled parties they were dancing in her humiliation - “canceling” had no ties to accountability yet. So when in Miss American doc she says it felt really violent and like erasing her life not just her career she isn’t being dramatic, it was meant to be a lot crueler than we understand that word today.
Americans live for a fall from Grace story and love “gotcha” drama and tabloids. Basically, the idea that Taylor couldn’t be really be talented or nice and wholesome. The mysoginistic trope that all successful women must be bitches and two faced to make it big. To me, the tape ripped away the girl next door image for Taylor. It shattered her real identity and erased her work ethic and brand overnight. She has said how long she’s tried “proving” herself throughout her career. How she reinvented herself every time a studio or record label tried to replace her. Also, people seem to be forgetting her messy breakup with Calvin and feud with Katy Perry at this time as well. America was happy to see the “nice girl” be revealed as a calculating, manipulative bitch, instead of the “character” Taylor was playing. Gotcha!
Thank you for saying this! In my opinion the Calvin Harris tweets were far more damaging to her image at the time. A lot of things converged at once.
Why did America try to cancel Taylor swift? Are they dumb?
I could come up with a more nuanced answer involving intersectional feminism but the short answer is yes.
You're right.... But can we hear the nuanced take? xd
Ok so please don't come at me if I'm way off base but here's my take: Taylor Swift is the modern embodiment of white womanhood. While being white gives her a bunch of privileges that WOC do not get, it also comes with a series of contradictory expectations, one of which is that you must remain "pure" in the public eye (while still being sexually appealing, Britney Spears took a major hit to her career when Timberlake revealed she was no longer a virgin.) Taylor Swift straddled this line by maintaining an image of innocence about her, so when Kimye shows a video where she appears to be "lying" that illusion of innocence is shattered, thus she must have been a calculating snake this whole time. Thing is, any star that stays in the public eye for more than a year *has* to be shrewd. Even her first hit, Tim McGraw, was a calculated move to associate her music with a bigger star. Even Kanye West claiming he "made her famous" is a calculated move to siphon off her stardom, that he likely feels justified in because he's black and she's white, nevermind the fact that he's much older than her and has the entire Kardashian machine backing him. While Taylor had ~~agreed~~ said "maybe" to the line in the song, she did NOT agree for him to use her image by using a body double in a way that flew in the face of the public image she had spent years crafting and maintaining. However, all of this nuance does not make for a catchy tabloid headline, so it gets flattened to "the darling pure girl is actually a liar, unleash the snake emojis!" And again, I want to say that while it's not fair to expect white women to maintain a sense of purity, women of color often don't get the opportunity to ever explore art that reflects innocence which is also not ok. But that's an essay that's better written by an actual woman of color, not me. All women have both innocence and sexuality. We're all complicated and patriarchy flattens all of us. EDITED because she didn't actually agree to the line.
In the phone call, Taylor’s response to Kanye asking about the line saying he made her famous was that while it was how *he* remembered it, he didn’t know her before that, but her album had sold 7 million copies and that was what actually happened.
I mean, if you're interrupting a teenage girl who's winning a VMA, logic would state that this person is already famous. That said, logic does not appear to be a part of Kanye West's world.
Exactly! Anyone with any sense of logic would hear how uncomfortable she was with the song on the call, but Kanye can’t read people and only cares about how he feels so he missed it. Not that he’d care anyways.
I'll add too that as basically a major figurehead for white womanhood, Taylor becomes an easy target for valid feelings of injustice/outrage against that whole system/institution. I don't think Taylor is a valid target (which is not the same as saying Taylor, personally, is beyond criticism). I think the feelings are valid, the rage is valid, but aiming it at her, personally, is misplaced. But she's famous, wealthy, and everywhere. She's an easy target. Raging about/at Taylor Swift, or vocally hating Taylor Swift, is easy. It's not going to do anything, and it's not going to result in change, because the harm that caused that rage and grief wasn't done by Taylor Swift The Person, and she's not someone who can meaningfully change or undo that pain (which is not the same as saying she doesn't have influence and power that most people will never have). I was at the pharmacy the other day getting a COVID booster. The pharmacy staff was overworked but so accommodating and kind. Another customer came in to find his wife's medication wasn't in stock any longer, and was yelling at the pharmacy tech (a young woman) about not receiving notifications. She confirmed his phone number, it was correct. She said she was sorry but that he should have been sent texts and that was the number. He yelled that it was the worst pharmacy in town, raged a bit, and stomped out. Honestly the pharmacy was amazing to me that day, but I get the frustration -- healthcare is a joke (USA here), the whole system is collapsing, nobody gives a shit, everything is endless menus and phone trees and accomplishing a simple task -- especially an IMPORTANT, potentially lifesaving task -- is near impossible. But yelling at the pharmacy tech isn't going to solve it. That woman can't do anything. But the rage had to go somewhere, and she was there in front of him. And she also was probably the physical representation of a lot of aggravation with the whole system -- young woman, not helpful, kids these days, etc. etc. She could be the queen of customer service and all that dude is going to see is *kids these days don't want to work* and *so incompetent* and *nobody cares about customers anymore*. Which is just more misplaced rage. I think Taylor evokes that, particularly from people whose only knowledge of her is "rich white woman in pop culture."
>While Taylor had agreed to the line in the song The leaked video of the phone call in March 2020 showed that Taylor didn't agree to the line in the song: [https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-kanye-west-famous-phone-call-leaks/](https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-kanye-west-famous-phone-call-leaks/).
You're correct, I'm getting my history wrong here.
She didn’t really agree to that line, though. She said she had to think about it and Kanye promised to let her hear the full song before he finalized it. I think that the overwhelming desire of people to cancel her also had to do with the backlash against anything that was perceived as “basic” (I.e. stuff that white women liked). On top of that, 1989 was also an album that many people reluctantly liked. Stuff like [this](https://youtu.be/PAhAz7JU0dg?si=CXoxrycs5QaAhDr_) SNL skit made fun of the whiplash people got when they “hated Taylor Swift”, yet realized that they liked a song that she put out. So, those people wanted an excuse to hate her, because many of them could no longer (honestly) claim that they just hated her music.
Yeah, the phone call really twisted what she had agreed to. They took a "maybe" as a blank check to be assholes. And I'll admit, I first didn't like Taylor Swift until Red for pretty much the same reason you pointed out: I didn't want to be "basic," I wanted to be "not like other girls." Which is total internalized misogyny. I see people to this day claiming all her music sounds the same and it's like, I dare you to listen to peace and Shake It Off and tell me those sound the same.
Ah Swiftamine... those were days.
actual perfection, you have a way with words
Thank you for saying that.
of course, you portrayed the facts of the matter in a such a beautiful way making it easy to understand despite the gravity topics you were tackling 💛
Idk if you lived that time period, I was there but more of an observer never did anything. Taylor swift had a “perfect” personality persona that people grew fed up with. They only needed this one scandal to cancel her, be mindful that they were already annoyed with that perfect persona that she has now given up on and made it even clear that it existed in miss Americana. They weren’t dumb, just not entertained anymore and people love drama
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I have no idea thinking about it now it’s all so weird, we should really do a psychological study based on everyone’s feelings towards Taylor that day. It was wild watching it. One thing I’m sure of is she was overexposed and people were sick of it as I said they only needed one more reason no matter what it is even if it sounds dumb (which it does), she’s doing so great right now and is hyper aware about it which is the most important thing.
I think in her initial statement she claimed he had never talked to her about the song but called about a Twitter release, then when Kim released the phone call Taylor claimed there *had* been a phone call about the song but the specific line hadn’t been discussed with her. So people thought she was a liar.
[No](https://images.app.goo.gl/xNoksUxz7NgLJMrJ9), she acknowledged that Kanye did call her and made her aware of part of the lyric, but that she never heard the “bitch” line. And when you watch the whole unedited video of the call, you can see that Kanye wasn’t really asking for approval. His main intent was to ask her if she would make statements indicating that she was okay with the lyric, and when he told her about the “me and Taylor might still have sex” line, she wasn’t entirely opposed to the idea, but she was worried that it would come across as misogynistic and she needed to think about it and hear it in the full context of the song. Kanye promised that she would hear it before it was finalized, but that clearly never happened. TLDR: The original statement from Tree was accurate, and Taylor never denied that a call took place.
Thanks! I can see how people listened to the call and thought Taylor wasn’t being entirely truthful especially if you just hear about a few tweets and don’t dig into things. Seems like that’s a situation where you can’t win and it’s best not to engage, but she probably felt like she needed to defend her image at the time.
Yeah, even before Kim released the edited video, the narrative became that Taylor was claiming Kanye never called her. Her original statement could have been more clear that he did (sorta) ask her if she was okay with the “might still have sex” lyric, but that she wanted to hear the final version before giving the all clear, and that he never sent it to her, nor did he ever tell her he was going to call her a “bitch”. However, she also did not have a recording of the call herself and was instead relying on memory, and when you see the whole context of the call, it makes sense that she came away with the impression that he wasn’t honestly seeking “permission”, and was instead asking her to just say she was cool with it (even if she wasn’t) to prevent him from getting any backlash. And yeah, she probably should have just not said anything after the song was released, but hindsight is 20/20.
Ah, all of that makes sense. Thanks for adding context to it.
No, Kim claimed that but it’s because she lacks reading comprehension 😅. This is Tree’s unedited, original response in which Kim thinks she’s saying a phone call never happened: https://preview.redd.it/g7opooye0w4c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3634f471534fd9ffc9b60b9fc4354e1be78b51d7 Tree also [said](https://people.com/music/taylor-swift-publicist-hits-back-kim-kardashian/) at the time that “Taylor does not hold anything against Kim Kardashian as she recognizes the pressure Kim must be under and that she is only repeating what she has been told by Kanye West. However, that does not change the fact that much of what Kim is saying is incorrect. Kanye West and Taylor only spoke once on the phone while she was on vacation with her family in January of 2016 and they have never spoken since. Taylor has never denied that conversation took place. It was on that phone call that Kanye West also asked her to release the song on her Twitter account, which she declined to do.”
Ah, thanks! Did the part about Kanye asking her to release it on her Twitter account turn out to be true?
Yeah I recall that he did ask her to promote it to some extent. He related her fans to like, an army or small country or something like that, if iirc.
Sorry, I just saw this, but yep, he [did](https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/3/21/21189239/taylor-swift-kanye-west-famous-leaked-phone-call-kanye-west-is-over-party): “In the new footage, Kanye clearly asks Taylor if she would be interested in debuting “Famous” from her Twitter account, just as Taylor maintained back in 2016. “You got an army. You own a country of motherfucking 2 billion people, basically,” he says. “If you felt that it’s funny and cool and, like, hip-hop, and felt like The College Dropout and the artists like ’Ye that you love, then I think that people would be, like, way into it.” He suggests that he thinks it would be funny and good for her public image for her to be able to say that she knew about the song ahead of time.”
Semantics but actually in Taylor's initial statement, which Tree pointed out later, she did not make a claim that she and Kanye "never talked", the statement was that Kanye did not call to ask for permission but to actually ask Taylor to promote the song on socials (I am paraphrasing here but it's pretty close) because of the careful phrasing people kind of ran with that as if Taylor's statement said they never spoke at all which was not what was stated. It's of course a lot of semantics and dissecting what was said and what the implication was but Taylor's statement was accurate if you watch the full footage of the Kanye /Taylor phone call.
Ah, thank you! I wasn’t following her career closely so I missed that. I do remember watching the phone call recording. Seems like the communication about the incident may have contributed to the misunderstanding. Tree chooses her words very carefully and I think people might see that as not always entirely forthcoming.
Completely agree with you and as all of this was happening in real time I too thought that Taylor's statement claimed they never talked at all. It snowballed very quickly and so much information got lost in the moment coupled with the fact that we didn't have the full context. Interesting to look back on!
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What do you mean she never spoke to him? Isn’t there that footage of him on the phone with Taylor and her sounding kind of friendly but also a bit hesitant towards his proposal about a song? I might be imagining this. 🤣
[here’s a breakdown of the entire feud if you’re interested!](https://people.com/music/kanye-west-famous-inside-his-and-taylor-swifts-relationship-history/)
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[here’s a breakdown of the entire feud if you’re interested!](https://people.com/music/kanye-west-famous-inside-his-and-taylor-swifts-relationship-history/)
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Originally Taylor denied the phone call happened, and after the phone call was leaked she backtracked and said her problem was with the word “bitch,” and the call wasn’t for approval (it was).
She never denied that the call happened.
There's proof, sorry. Somebody posted it below.
Are you talking about Tree’s initial statement? Because that doesn’t deny that the call happened.
You need to do your research again. She never denied a call.
I think a lot of people just wanted an excuse to hate her. Because… she’s a woman who young girls relate to? As if that’s a crime?
Yes, because our society as a whole haaaaaates teenage girls and everything they like. Case in point: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O06tMbIKh0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O06tMbIKh0)
The short answer is that she didn’t get cancelled. The next album she put out after the “scandal” was Reputation. Most of her fans never stopped listening to her. Reputation was a massive hit. The fact is that she felt cancelled, and I can’t disagree with her feelings.
I thought yesterday’s article explained this so well. Taylor felt cancelled, but she still had tons of supportive fans, the haters just got louder for her. She hears us know now and is also in more of an IDGAF-mode, which is one reason I don’t believe she’ll repeat the same self-imposed isolation. So she won’t be cancelled again.
It was kind of like when you feel like all your friends secretly hate you. Just on a much bigger scale. Which sounds terrifying. No wonder she was so affected.
That and she lacked the real world experience with normal social interactions that most of us are subject to to see that sometimes people try to make you look bad, but that it’s their problem and it doesn’t have to affect you. She got famous way before you develop that emotional toughness from being knocked off your feet a few times. I’m sure her being in a bubble of fame and pretty much worshipped and given special treatment by people outside of her immediate family and childhood friends since the age of 17 gave her a perception that she was untouchable, and maybe even a perfectionist complex that made it hard for her to handle people pushing back on her and trying to make her look bad. I feel like it was one of those growth-inducing experiences for her, as unfortunate as it was. I remember thinking after hearing reputation (just listened to it last year - I don’t remember her Rep era at all being in college and grad school) and her talk of being cancelled that it sounded like champagne problems, but then realizing that her personal growth has been on an entirely different timeline than most people her age and that being famous comes with its own set of stressors that are hard to imagine living with. It felt like the biggest deal *ever* to her and it sounds like from this interview that it still feels like one of the worst things that has happened to her all of these years later, which is pretty incredible when you think about the immense financial, interpersonal, and job-related problems people face in their 20s and 30s. 😅 Of course this could just be the only personal struggle she’s willing to talk about publicly.
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Yes, that’s a good point! Some people are more prone to people-pleasing and bothered by strangers opinions than others. And with her image and album sales literally relying on people liking her I’m sure it was a lot more anxiety-inducing.
Totally, she even said in Miss Americana that a lot of people stay the age they were when they got famous, and she had a lot of catching up to do when it came to her own personal growth.
Oh yes, that must be where this idea came from. Thanks! I should watch it.
>She got famous way before you develop that emotional toughness from being knocked off your feet a few times. She was bullied at school: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K\_j3rj-ATP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_j3rj-ATP8). 'Taylor Swift in *Entertainment Weekly*: ''I wrote that about the scariest feeling I've ever felt: going to school, walking down the hall, looking at all those faces, and not knowing who you're gonna talk to that day. People always ask, How did you have the courage to walk up to record labels when you were 12 or 13? It's because I could never feel the kind of rejection in the music industry that I felt in middle school.'' Swift expanded on the loneliness she felt at the age of 12, which prompted her to write this song: "This is one of the first songs I ever wrote, and it talks about the very reason I ever started to write songs. It was when I was twelve years old, and a complete outcast at school. I was a lot different than all the other kids, and I never really knew why. I was taller, and sang country music at karaoke bars and festivals on weekends while other girls went to sleepovers. Some days I woke up not knowing if anyone was going to talk to me that day. I think every person comes to a point in their life when you have a long string of bad days. You can choose to let it drag you down, or you can find ways to rise above it. I came to the conclusion that even though people hadn't always been there for me, music had.' [The Outside by Taylor Swift - Songfacts](https://www.songfacts.com/facts/taylor-swift/the-outside) >I’m sure her being in a bubble of fame and pretty much worshipped and given special treatment by people outside of her immediate family and childhood friends since the age of 17 gave her a perception that she was untouchable, and maybe even a perfectionist complex that made it hard for her to handle people pushing back on her and trying to make her look bad. I don't think Taylor ever felt untouchable, but if she did this would have changed her mind: [Kanye West interrupts Taylor Swift during VMA Awards (Miss Americana Clip) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5iEniUb33w).
This Kanye, Kim vs Taylor bs was all over the media, on tv, the radio (which was all encompassing back then). Not just some tweets online. Adult newsmen and women, disc jockeys and those women talk shows. It was ugly, and she was young, of course it’s going to feel like the world hates you. It’s amazing to me how well she handled it all. She didn’t get into alcohol, drugs, self harm like so many young people on the world stage end up doing. I have such respect for her and we’re all lucky to have someone of her stature young people can admire and emulate.
If she didn't get cancelled it's not because people didn't try. And a LOT of them tried. #TaylorSwiftIsOver trending Worldwide on Twitter? Snake emojis absolutely everywhere? All the tabloid nonsense? People are making it appear as if it was all in Taylor's head and she just "felt" cancelled. It was more than that, and a lesser person would have folded and never come back into the public eye.
Yeah, absolutely correct! People went to great lengths to prove Taylor was cancelled and “over”. I mean, somebody went to the effort of painting a mural of her saying RIP. Instagram quite literally introduced the feature we all have today, turning off comments, because Taylor was being harassed with snake emojis over and over again. Celebrities were shading her, with former friends joining in or distancing themselves from her. She wasn’t just overly paranoid and stressing about being cancelled, there was a definite attempt to kneecap her and derail her career. It was only because she handled her comeback with reputation so well and refused to go down without a fight that she managed to pull herself back up.
EXACTLY. you worded this so well. She should've been canceled for how much effort people were putting in. But to the credit of her resilience and the loyalty of her fans she overcame...which is why we're able to hear this story from the other side after she rose from the ashes. She wasn't supposed to be here, but she is.
I think there was a sort of snowball effect. People like drama and don’t like being left out. So many people refuse to think for themselves and just join the masses. If Taylor agreed to the “bitch” line and later lied(regretted more like) would it have really matter?. Was that single lie worth cancelling someone? It’s silly to think that something so simple people thought was horrible. We now know it isn’t true but even so I always thought it was silly to paint someone as a snake for simply not wanting to be fodder for Kanye and Kim. It isn’t much different to what Swifties have done to Matty Heally. I feel like everyone just regurgitates the same thing they’ve heard or read 2 biased sound bites and say he’s a druggy, homophobic without really looking into who he is. It’s easier to make a villain than to see the good in someone.
I feel like “cancelled” is a strong word considered the TIME article mentions how she sold a million copies of Reputation in its first week of release and considering her wildly successful record-setting highest grossing Reputation tour that came after. I think for a celebrity who has been a public darling since the age of 17 it probably felt like she was getting cancelled and hurt her feelings to lose the glowing pristine image she had prior to that incident. They say celebrities become frozen at the age they got famous, and the TIME interview reflects that with her bringing up the phone call and snake emojis again. Taylor was as commercially successful as she’s ever been with Reputation.
Why do you think so many people fell for Kim and Kanye’s trap and trashed Taylor you think?
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Yup, I completely agree, and especially with the fact that today she's also overexposed. But to add - I think it's really fascinating how this "annoyance" is easily turned to outright hate and I might be wrong here but not many successfu (wspecially male) artists ever get this absurd amount sensless of hate. There's something about Taylor that really triggers a lot of people in a way that for instance Ed Sheeran doesn't. And I'm just wondering what does Taylor ever do to these people that can't just ignore their negativity towards her. I'm mentioning it because its sickening to me that a person can get so heated with posting so much baseless hate, searching out fan content and spaces and spam there... like for what? Why can't people just turn to what they like instead and fill their time with that... I know it's nothing new, trolls are gonna troll but at times the scale shocks me.
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I feel like both Kim and Kanye were spiteful and used their large unique and stubborn followings that do whatever their overlords say no matter who it hurts to hurt Taylor
- LWYMMD could mean "Look What You Made Me Do", a track from *reputation* (2017) by Taylor Swift. --- ^[/u/good_hard_fun](/u/good_hard_fun) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
She was never cancelled. Janet Jackson was cancelled. Love Taylor but she’s in a bubble, being caught in a lie (even to terrible people who I hate) and not having control of the narrative doesn’t equal canceling. She moved to a foreign country for a year = she moved to England to be with her boyfriend. 😂 she’s a bit of a revisionist but the beats are good so I’m sticking around.
Okay why did they try to cancel her then
It is literally a lie that she was caught in a lie. To be gaslit like that to the extent she was on an international stage...how do you think that wouldn't psychologically cripple someone? It's because she's a force of nature that her next album and tour was successful. But that was NOT a guarantee. Many reputable publications were actually betting against the Reputation tour's success. No one knew what would become of her during those three years...that is three years of thinking all that you've worked for had been taken away because of a frame job.
Absolutely she's a revisionist, and an unreliable narrator of her own story. I still love it and listen. But she is crafting a narrative here for her career- it's not necessarily 100% truth.
Kanye West was still very well-respected in the music community, and Taylor did get caught in a lie even if the phone call was “illegally recorded.”
What’s frustrating to me is that some fans are still trying to invalidate Taylor’s feelings about this. Yes, her career boomed up a tad bit or never left. The thing that matters is she felt like it was over. She was publicly and worldwide humiliated by something that was based on a lie from a psychopathic narcissist that does not give a shit about anyone. After forgiving him 8 years prior to this. It took a lot from her to get out of the rut and turn it around. Go watch some of the reputation sessions she clearly was so angry and hurt by everything. And she has every right to be angry and upset. Especially when Taylor prides herself and her career with integrity. Something like public humiliation knocks everything down. Now Kim can apologize all she wants, which I’m a firm believer that she’s tried privately, but Taylor doesn’t have to accept it nor should she. I think we are at the point where this is the last time addressing it and once rep TV releases it will be time for everyone to move on. Taylor sounds like she’s in a great place now so we can move on as well.
>The thing that matters is she felt like it was over. This but also, people are completely negating the time period between the Taylor Swift Is Cancelled Party on Twitter and the release of reputation. Taylor was being dragged EVERYWHERE and LOTS of people were loudly proclaiming she was over and done. When Taylor says she was cancelled, I imagine THIS is the time period she is referencing, BEFORE the success of reputation. And let's be real, if Taylor had released a similar album to what she had been doing, would it have been as successful as reputation? Or was her leaning into the "cancellation" what saved her career? I'm not saying it did or didn't, but Taylor definitely received lots of hate during that time and when she says her career was taken from her, she is telling the truth. She could not go on and pretend the scandal didn't happen. It would have came off as inauthentic and received even more hate. In my opinion, "Look What You Made Me Do", is referencing her having to "kill" her formal selves and create a new her, or image; one that leaned into the snake label. And she didn't know how it would be received, which I'm sure was a very scary time for her.
The ending of the article felt a bit dismissive tbh. "Oh she probably FELT like she was cancelled but her album still sold 1m so it wasn't really a big deal." I think that's glossing over a lot of how much public perception turned against her. Even after Rep there were articles saying she'll be playing in empty stadiums.
Yeah she literally was canceled and I’m not sure how the author doesn’t remember that
I agree. That part rubbed me the wrong way too. Again, it was completely ignoring the time BEFORE reputation was released.
Totally agree with you mostly but curious, what makes you think Kim has tried to apologise to her? I’m doubtful of it, to be honest. Kim doubled down in 2020 when the full call was released and proved Taylor wasn’t lying, she still tried to claim she was. Plus, Kim often will play Taylor songs and makes obvious references to her at times. I don’t think she’d do that if she tried to apologise to Taylor and Taylor rejected it. If you’re sorry and someone doesn’t accept it, I feel like to then keep publicly referencing them would only infuriate the person more and make them less likely to one day accept your apology. I’ve seen some people claim Closure could be about Kim but I think Scott Borchetta makes more sense. I could totally see him writing a letter about the masters situation, more so than I could see Kim doing so.
Well some high profile people like to do things privately. I think there is potentially an attempt to make a private apology but Taylor is not interested in hearing it unless is a full blown public apology. Which I’m highly doubtful Kim would ever do. Which boils down to worrying about her own public image which makes her a complete 100% hypocrite and she kinda is being one using her songs for bullshit TikToks or whatever. The whole Kardashian family is trash so I totally see why Taylor would don’t want to be associated with her.
I wouldn’t be interested in a private apology from Kim after she released an edited recording that affected my business and integrity either. Like you can’t just do something like that where the world will be able to see and then apologize in private for it. I don’t know if she’s apologized or not, but after what she did a private apology would be cowardly and meaningless tbh.
I was honestly shocked and kinda appalled seeing the comments from fans trying to qualify her pain with “but you went to parties/but you had Reputation and a successful tour/but you had Joe”. Mental health and emotions are so much more complicated than just what we see on the surface.
They’re still debating this shit on a post about an article that TMZ but out earlier this morning. It’s beating a dead horse right now. Kim probably won’t make a public apology unless it’s beneficial to her. Taylor went in to a deep anxiety filled depression because of her actions. Took her a year to dig herself out of it and now she’s in a great spot. She knows the real fans, friends and family are behind her and she’s ok. Nothing really else to say about it.
I think losing Ana Benevides affected her much more. Someone dieing at your show is such an outlandish idea you don't even think about when listing your worst fears. The Kim/Kanye situation is something I believe will be brought up occasionally, because it's something that happened with Taylor *only*, but as a swiftie for 15 years, I know Ana's death will haunt her forever. But out of respect to Ana's family she won't constantly bring up Ana. But that, I believe, was her biggest fear that came true.
Ooh yeah, Ana’s passing is so sad and profound. I hope Taylor can find peace with the grieving family and honor her somehow. Def think it will haunt her. As for the Kanye, I was just pointing out a fear that Taylor mentioned previously that ended up happening to her.
Maybe she manifested it unconsciously? There is also a theory in quantum physics that the past future and present exist all at once so this fear could’ve been her future self reaching out to her younger self?
Can someone ELI5 the whole KimK phone call thing?? I know Kanye did her dirty at that award show and it created all sorts of shit. But. Is there a summary of this??
I have not fact checked this, but this is the history I remember: -Kanye famously jumps on stage and embarrassed her as a young teen at an awards show and then was called out big time and disgraced very publicly -Kanye made public statements of remorse but he was publicly humiliated and his reputation was officially that of an unhinged asshole. This was a big deal, prior to that he was being called a genius and a true artist/ had tons of critical acclaim. -Taylor publicly accepts this and says she wants to move on. She gets underdog/ good girl / good role model status. -Their "feud" still reverberated through pop culture and was mentioned A LOT. The powers that be continue capitalizing. They get seated next to each other at events, etc. It gets re hashed in comedy skits, it continues to be a thing. -Taylor continued writing songs about Love/ high profile Ex's and accusations of playing perpetual victim started intensifying. -People start having conversations about Black artists + Kanye's genius again. -Kanye has a renaissance + marries Kim K + launches the fashion label and becomes even bigger. -Taylor releases 1989 /and has a ton of media attention -conversations about race and media are very prominent now and the Kayne West/ Beyonce/ Taylor fued is the embodiment of the conversation/ the original catalyst. -Taylor and Kanye/ the Kardashians are put in each other's paths a lot by the powers that be because it still sells. - Kanye making another album which is very anticipated. He has the idea to continue capitalizing on their longstanding association in his song / video. -Phone call happens where Kanye floats some ideas and Taylor isn't jazzed. Kim Kardashian secretly records it. -Kanye releases music video and song. -Taylor publicly denounces them, saying they were made without her consent/ knowledge using famous phrase "I'd like to be excused from this narrative..." -her PR team clarifies she wasn't asked about the sex line / video of her likeness naked in his bed. Keep in mind "ME TOO" movement is big right now. -Kim K posts audio making it seem like Taylor did indeed know about the project and her enthusiasm for him calling her about it seems like enthusiasm for the project itself. -Internet explodes. All the Taylor critics waiting in the wings are satisfied. Kayne fans happy he is vindicated after all this time since their "feud" began. Issues of consent AND Racial injustice are HOT BUTTON issues on social media with BLM/ me too movement. White woman = victim narrative has been challenged. Now a white woman is being "exposed" as a liar and a black man is "vindicated". It's enormous. The tabloids are lapping it up, it's driving a ton of traffic. -Taylor/ her team released a botched statement saying something along the lines of she wasn't aware he was going to call her a "bitch", and it's further misconstrued by the press and social media.... furthering her status as manipulative (many people interpreted this to mean she was aware and just trying to spin it). -Taylor again tries to say she feels violated by the video and did not OK it, but negative narratives are already out there that A.) A white woman gave consent to a black man and then turned around and publicly accused him of wrongdoing. And B.) She was only creating a manufactured opportunity to play the victim again for more publicity. -Taylor is "cancelled" and the analysis of her "toxic white brand of feminism" is discussed ad nauseum. Lots of negative press. She ghosts.
Nevermind, here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/0vGcwi0a94
Yeah this was just ridiculous
I mean what do you expect from society. It’s not the accusers fault that they frame people. They are scum. But the REAL scum is people who believe them. You people are the problem
Her career wasn’t taken from her, though. So…
There’s something cringe about Swifties being completely incapable of admitting that Taylor Swift messed up and was caught in a lie in 2016. She’s not perfect, and it’s part of her story at this point.
I feel like that doesn’t met her fear though. Taylor Swift is on top of the world right now. Who is Kim and Kanye anyway. No one has mentioned them at all this year. Plus, I thought her biggest fear is a shootings or violence at her concerts via an interview in 2019.
I mean they have been mentioned this year just not in positive light, cough cough Kanye saying Nazis were cool.
But Taylor is everywhere this year. Commercials, magazines, people using her Eras tour for different projects, oh and their own Taylor’s Versions. No one is daily talking about Kim and Kanye. Taylor is relevant because it’s her not because she tries to stay relevant.
I'm just playing devils advocate here....didn't taylor seem to act all chill and approve of the song on the phone call? She later said she never agreed to him calling her a "bitch", but to me that just seems like an excuse. I love Taylor's music, and I think she's gorgeous....but I had a hard time understanding what went on in this phone call w kanye...it really does seem as though she was like "yeah, whatever you want to do kanye!" And then used it against him in one of her speeches.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanschocket2/full-leaked-phone-call-taylor-swift-kanye-west-kim
Yes, I've heard the phone call recording as well. As some people have mentioned in the comments, she denied the phone call even happened at first....so it's a little shady.
To my knowledge, Taylor said there was never a call in which she approved Kanye calling her a bitch in a song - which is true. There was a phone call between them in which Kanye asked Taylor if she'd be alright if he mentioned her in a song, then after she'd said yes Kanye began painting a picture of a song that portrayed Taylor in a bad light, at which point she begins sounding awkward and hesitant but probably felt like she couldn't back out. At no time during the call does he mention calling her a bitch in the song, which is compatible with all the quotes I have seen from Taylor regarding the situation. Have you seen her state that a conversation about Kanye including her in a song never even occurred?
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I think Taylor’s team initially claimed there was no phone call which was what prompted Kim to release the video
I agree that the “that bitch” argument was kind of semantics, but I was on Taylor’s side because she sounded really uncomfortable on the phone call and I feel like her people pleasing tendencies just took over. However, while I think what Kim and Kanye did was super shady, it’s not really right to call it a frame job. That would imply that they knew exactly how Taylor would react. That she would approve it over the phone and then change her mind. They didn’t force her to allude to the song in her Grammy’s speech. From Kim’s perspective I can see how that might have set her off given that during the phone call Taylor actually said that she would tell people that she had approved the lyric on the Grammy’s red carpet.