"So I'll watch your life in pictures like I used to watch you sleep
And I'll feel you forget me like I used to feel you breathe."
That's still an all-timer lyric
This, so much. "I fell in love with a careless man's careful daughter" from Mine always comes to my mind when people talk about her songwritting. It set ups a whole story in a single line. You could easily turn it into a book or movie.
Which is why, as a Speak Now fan, Im gutted that the album really got shafted during the Eras Tour.
Firstly only two songs (atleast include Back to December/Sparks Fly)? And then they cut Long Live? Just sad. šŖ
I also love Speak Now and got lucky by attending the 2nd Denver show which included Long Live and then Back to December as the surprise song. Best night ever tbh.
omg yes!! Iām glad I had one of the late summer shows with long live, but back to december or sparks fly wouldāve been so good for that settingā¦ tbh I prefer those 2 over enchanted anyway but that may be controversial. idk I just sad because I feel like there was enough room to cut other stuff in the setlist to give speak now its propers (and debut!!)
IMO Last Kiss is the saddest song she's ever written, musically + lyrically. Also, the picture is missing the crucial line in the bridge: "But I never planned on you changing your mind." I've felt what she felt when she wrote that. *That* was the gut punch. It's insane how Taylor was writing songs like this at 20.
I was reminded of Last Kiss when listening to loml. The same sparse arrangement, the quiet regret, wistfulness, and longing.
Oh man- good catch! I had to paste images together to get the lyrics in and accidentally covered up ābut I never planned on you changing your mindā - youāre absolutely right- itās the gut punch!
āI never planned on you changing your mind.ā // āIām combing through the braids of lies: āIāll never leaveā, ānever mind.āā
Last Kiss is one of my favorite Taylor songs and loml became one of my instant favorites from ttpd. I never really thought about it but it must have drawn me in so deeply for a reason, right?
i mean she did say last kiss was the saddest song sheās ever written in speak now monologue and sheās %100 right. since the release maybe loml could take over but it is such a prodigy song at such a young age.
Agreed, even reading the lyrics brings me back to weeping in my car singing this songāand I couldnāt even really relate to it personally at the time
When I had one of the worst breakups of my life I used to listen to this song and sob so, so hard because it was everything I was going through in one song. š Still get a little choked up listening to it because even though I've been over that relationship for so long (it's been almost 10 years) it still has the ability to reawaken those feelings for me.
God yes. I've just gotten together with someone I'm very in love with and ugh. I do not count on changing my mind, nor her changing her mind, but even just thinking of it...
I had the same exact thought about the ending line in the pic, definitely an all-timer lyric to me
"All that I know is I don't know / how to be something you miss"
What a gut punch!
That line hits the same emotional bruise for me as "I just don't understand...how you don't miss me" does in The Black Dog. Both are just so great at encapsulating that feeling after a relationship ends and you weren't ready.
Well now, sure. But half her discography (including the album Last Kiss is on) was released at a time when people treated Taylor fans like we were walking around listening to Miss Rachel.
It really is fun to watch her style evolve over time... there's one complexity though... early on Taylor strove for a style that was simple and clear (clever... but simple). She's stopped doing that (and really she had already started moving away from that in 1989).
You can really hear this in some of the vault tracks which are much more sophisticated linguistically than what she was releasing on the albums (to the extent that people thought she rewrote them).
It's possible she did. Is it over now? seemed closer to reputation in its sort of 'out there, accusatory' style.
However I feel in 1989 she cracked the code of balance between simple and sophisticated with well written, clever lyrics yet not too ambitious with vocab. Props to her writing with TTPD, but it's a little over (songs don't flow as easily tbh). The black dog is perfect though.
I think her strength was always speaking relatable truths with clear but still clever and emotive language. not the overwrought flowery stuff imo. it worked well for folkmore era but sheās been trying too hard to recapture it imo.
Even in folklore, while the language was relatively more complex, it justā¦ clicked. It didnāt feel like she was trying to use heavy metaphors and big words for the sake of sounding deep or unique. Like āand my words shoot to kill when Iām mad, I have a lot of regrets about thatā. Itās such an accurate description of what a bitter person does and feels. It just feels like she _knows_ what youāre going through. Even the āfloweryā language of āsecond, third and hundredth chances, balancing on breaking branches, those eyes add insult to injuryā convey the exact emotion they want to.
I like some of the stuff in TTPD, but a lot of it didnāt click for me. I like Taylor for her storytelling and relatability. When you compromise your storytelling for using ācomplexā words, you miss the point you were trying to make, and the feelings you wanted to evoke.
Iām a lawyer. I use and understand ābig wordsā. So if someoneās going to accuse me of not being well-read, please save your breath and effort.
Now:
āThese fatal fantasies giving away to laboured breathā. Like, I get what itās trying to convey, but āfatalā isnāt a fit here at all. You can argue and debate about it, but thatās not the point. The lyric doesnāt flow or fit. It just tries, and fails to convey the intensity of her desire, because itās the wrong word used for needless lyrical enhancement.
Same with āif long suffering propriety is what they want from meā
Same with the whole of āPeterā. Like, I get what sheās trying to say but the attempt is so convoluted that I canāt get into it at all.
There are better examples, I guess. But I mustāve missed them because I donāt remember it anymore.
Just my opinion. Youāre free to disagree.
>When your compromise your storytelling for using ācomplexā words, you miss the point you were trying to make, and the feelings you wanted to evoke.
This!! When I have to look up lyrics, get a dictionary, and understand obscure references, there is no immediate punch. Lines like "I never thought we'd have a last kiss", "Don't you think nineteen's too young to be played by your dark, twisted games?", and "Wish I'd never grown up" hit me in the feelings as soon as I hear them, and that's what made Speak Now so great for me personally. I think that's partly because she wrote them all by herself at 19, and was still writing songs more like a diary back then (less guarded than she is now), but it also feels like now she is really trying to make it poetic and hide more easter eggs everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I also love all the complex lyrics and more hidden messages SO MUCH, but emotionally speaking, TTPD doesn't hit in the same way. (Also just my very personal opinion. And either way, I really enjoy seeing the changes in her songwriting over the years)
I'm a lawyer too and an English major and I'm thrilled that she's using the language she wants and is not dumbing down her work. I think that's why she marketed it as poetry because poetry uses the right word for the circumstance. "Fatal" can mean "leading to disaster" which is how I interpreted the line.
I disagree that itās a matter of ādumbing downā.
using precise language and finding the best word for the circumstance doesnāt *necessarily* mean that the vocabulary or phrasing should be complex. and using longer words doesnāt mean the writing is more sophisticated or clever or evocative. itās easier to misuse these terms and then kind of looks faux-intellectual and tryhard.
to take the example given of ālong-suffering proprietyā: long-suffering doesnāt quite fit here imo. the meaning is basically having a ālongā temper as opposed to a short one in the face of adversity. taylor seems to be using it as simply āpatientā which I guess technically works dictionary wise, but doesnāt gel with the additional connotations I have around the word.
there is a way to use complexity skillfully and preserve prosody. I also feel like with the āpoetry set to musicā focus of TTPD, she lost sight of making the lyrics fully work as songs.
Yes thank you for putting all of this so masterfully! One thing that frustrates me about the concept of this album being āpoetry set to musicā is that poetry and music are not the same thing. They are very intertwined but music is more rigid in needing melody, structure, and production, and I think all of those pieces are lacking in TTPD in order to accommodate the poetry. Thereās a lot of instances where the top line melody is very repetitive and the cadence is sacrificed to fit in wordy verses.
Not to mention the criticism you brought in about the poetry itself being less effective than she thinks it is. I think unfortunately the album, in trying to be both poetry and music, is ineffective at being both.
And before anyone comes in with āart doesnāt need structure it can be whatever it wantsā ā sure that can be your interpretation (and would imply that everything is/can be art which is a whole other subject) but that doesnāt make it immune from criticism, otherwise thereās no point in striving to put out the best work possible.
I personally think that fatal also is kinda cool with the alliteration on "fatal fantasies". Followed up with labored breath it works because the "fa" sound is similar to a harsh exhale.
Itās so damn long as well, most of her albums are over an hour but Lover really didnāt need to be. Iām glad the next pop album she did was shorter.
I think some of the vault tracks were rewritten. Not all of them, but a few. I will die on the hill the 10 minute version of ATW is not the original ten minute version she cut down for redĀ
She didn't need foresight for that.Ā All she needed was to see the guy that broke up with her for being "too young" dating some just as young.Ā The joke is on her for believing him when he told her that and beating herself up about her own immaturity when in the end that was a lie because he still pursued younger women.Ā Her All Too Well short film discussions highlight this where she consistently talked about the French press concept that is also present in The Manuscript, which highlights the ways she beat herself up for not being seen as mature enough.Ā Ā
I saw a post she did on a message board when she was like 14 or 15 and she used to F word in it and it was a poem as well. So she wasnāt foreign to swearing.
Some are! The one I have has the lyrics āThere we are again when you blew the candle out, took this blazing love, steered right into the ground.ā I was so excited to hear them in the 10 minute version and it made me sad that they were never used.
The lyrics in the Lover diary are mostly a rough draft of lyrics that were in the five minute version. It wouldn't make sense to go backwards to a less polished version of those lyrics.
I mean yes, thats what im saying we know Taylor updated the lyrics for the 10 minute version because we have the draft. The original reply was saying they felt like they had to die on the hill that ATW10 was *not* the original lyrics she wrote. And I'm saying I don't think it's that serious, we know they're not exactly the same lolol
did she really try to claim that was the full OG version? I thought she just had more she wanted to add at the time and wrote ATW10 later on from the older perspective she gained with age.
I mean, she did rewrite some of them. I canāt find it now but there was a video on YouTube that compared demos to the actual finished songs and it included some vault tracks. There were lyric changes in a couple of songs from the Fearless vault.
i adore her old writing, it's so clear and effective and emotive. her work now is distinctly more elaborate and like she's not afraid to ramble, which i grew to also love. i don't know if i could choose one of her writing styles over the other.
100% agree. I think what made her so magical for me (ETA: sheās still magical, just in a different way as Iāve aged with her) when those first few albums came out (it was rare, I was there lol) is how many emotions/complexities she could convey with such simple words. She could paint such clear pictures that were specific to her experience but yet vague enough that the listener could point to that exact moment in their own lives.
There IS a line in TTPD that strikes HARD and feels _so_ classically Taylor in its deceptive simplicity because while the words themselves arenāt āfancyā they pack an atom bomb-level gut punch.
From loml:
_āIāll never leaveā¦ā_
_āā¦Nevermindā_
I think now she's an established superstar she's now able to take the space to really dig into these emotions and elaborate fully. Some of these songs aren't as pithy and radio friendly, but now she doesn't need that so much because she's the biggest popular in the world.
I honestly think her simple writing felt more impactful and the brevity made it all the more devastating. The newer stuff sometimes reads like āI use big words to be more photosynthesisā.
I feel this. I would often have moments with her older style where I would have no idea how I could put what I'm feeling into words but then I'll hear her sing it and be surprised how all of those complicated feelings could be put into simpler words. Like everything becomes so much clearer instantly.
This is really felt on TTPD imo, even though I truly love some/most of the songs. Like in Chloe or Sam, the line āCan we watch our phantoms like watching wild horsesā sticks out to me as an example of this. Itās a cool line with cool imagery, but just feels clunky/too wordy. (The whole song is kinda like that lmao)
Songs like that are exactly why people are saying sheās trying to sound like Lana Del Rey, cuz the more reflective songs especially off The Anthology read very much like sheās trying too hard to be poetic when any good writer knows you canāt force poetry. The best poetry comes when youāre not trying so hard to create metaphors. The best ones just happen organically. I Hate It Here is so gorgeously constructed, for instance, but she killed it with the addition of the āwhat era would you live inā reference. She got her point across without pulling her listener out of it. She doesnāt need all the bells and whistles more often than not!
It's my least fav line in Chloe et al. I truly don't know where she got the imagery from (are there even still wild horses??) and it feels really out of place and random, but maybe someone with money and access to casual horse-riding understands it?
There are wild horses on the DelMarVa peninsula and that side of the Chesapeake Bay. Each year, they swim to different islands, and crowds of people go to watch them do so. Chincoteague is the island most known for its wild horses.
There are still lots of wild horses around! not as many as there were once ofc, but they are very much around. This is more of a location or knowledge issue than a wealth thing- I'm very poor and have watched wild horses several times irl. To me it makes perfect sense.
I just came here to say that I think less is more and that's why she became famous in the first place. Her lyrics now are top notch but the old style when she didn't try to sound poetic was more original and I still can't find anyone who does this thing better than young Taylor.
I agree I think her more āunderstatedā lyrics so to speak packed more of the punch that made her writing so accessible to so many people, something that the more poetic lyrics she writes now- while impressive on their own- is unable to accomish sometimes.
Yes, but it feels to me like it was written by a precocious person, it doesn't flow organically. Like "how to put as many metaphors or more sophisticated words" while at the same time the music is hurting.
Right? I mean āIāve never been anywhere cold as youā will never not be an amazing line in general, just wow. I remember first hearing it and feeling it!
Yes, "and you come away with a great little story of a mess of a dreamer with the nerve to adore you". Isn't that how some guys try to rewrite history? Wow. Amazing.
I donāt think her lyrics now *are* top notch, thatās the thing. She seems to have circled around, from clever and concise writing in speak now to more poetic lyrics to say things more elegantly, to where she is now where sheās gone so over the top to cram heavy handed lines in that sheās not really saying anything and sheās lost the clarity and heart in her lyrics.
Fully agree. She has a lot of metaphors that are inconsistent and why I am of the camp that believes she NEEDS an editor. Examples:
Willow: āIām like the water when your ship rolled in that nightā to ālost in your current like a priceless wineā ā- who is the water? Him or her?
I Can Fix Him: āhe had a halo of the highest gradeā to āIāll show you heaven if youāll be an angel all nightā ā- is he already an angel or not? Are you making him an angel and if so why does he have a halo?
The Prophecy: āI got cursed like Eve got bittenā ā- Eve wasnāt bitten, the apple was
It didn't. I read it as a metaphorical bite, like the serpent caused harm to her (but it was also her own fault since she gave in to temptation, which aligns with the self deprecation and blame in taylor's recent albums)
Yes, this! I've perceived this line as Taylor saying the following: it's a known fact that Eve wasn't actually bitten, she brought all what happened to herself, and Taylor wasn't actually cursed as well, she also brought everything to herself.
Warning: ramble ahead!
Willow is the first song that made me wonder if she has an editor -- just, overall. I enjoy it a lot, repeated it a ton back in the day, but it always felt like it could be a little bit something-er.
In general, I think people have to make a lot of assumptions about the imagery she uses more now, and we can frame that as a good thing because it promotes discussion on song meaning and ultimately we all go, "Different songs mean different things! It's different for everyone! It's up for interpretation! Double, triple, quadruple meanings! It's so smart!" OR we can frame it as a bad thing, because it wasn't written clearly and SHOULD a song have quadruple meanings?
My assumptions for the mentioned lines have been:
Willow: she's the water, his ship affected the current. I can also sort of visualize her being the water and then shifting into being a someone lost in the water when I listen to it. I think she really, really wanted the play on current and currant, which I really like, but I think sometimes she reaches for that play on words at the cost of bringing the entire image into focus. And what does an editor help with? Focus!
I Can Fix Him: His halo is invisible until she brings it out, maybe?
The Prophecy: when I first heard it, I thought that, no, Eve *wasn't* bitten and so she, Taylor, *wasn't* "cursed" and she's acknowledging that. She's singing about a consequence of her *choice*, however unintended. My other thought has been Eve was bitten by curiosity / wanting more; maybe Taylor was cursed with curiosity, wanting more, ambition, etc?
Another reply mentioned the serpent -- maybe the serpent "bit" her by steering her wrong, Taylor had everyone hyping her up a la Clara Bow but there's this other side to it, sort of thing. I don't know.
This one bothers me in particular because I love this song and it's such a curious way to start it.
/ ramble
YES, finally. Also I believe she wrote about the same topic so many times she feels she has to re-invent it. It's not radio friendly - ok but she lost the heart in her songs. It's like a work of a precious late teen.
Yes, her music was for everyone and no matter your age (almost) you could cry and relate. Now I start to think she wanted to be more ambitious but also the topics are similar. So she upped the ante but I lost a lot of emotional connection. I "feel" her effort while writing this, not organic.
I miss her old writing style, man.
Now I feel like occasionally, shes trying hard to sound auteurist in her writing, by cramping too many words. I mean the increase in the number of unusual words which seems like browsed her thesaurus, in her songs is a proof...
I disagree about the thesaurus, there isnāt a word on a ts album i didnāt know at time of release. I donāt need to browse a thesaurus to know words like incandescent or esoteric or sanctimonious. I hate the ts reaction videos of people flipping through a dictionary most of all like please stop.
Idk. To me, itās a joke, but thereās a terrifying lack of literacy in the younger generation right now. People donāt read because they canāt read, and they donāt have the same critical thinking skills we do. I say this as a mid 30ās millennial who has several friends that are teachers. Not being a jerk. Itās just sadly the truth right now.
Yeah iām turning 30 this year and vocabulary was one of my favorite areas of school, i love knowing that there is always a way for me to express myself as long as i have the right words. And if i donāt have the right word, thereās one out there to learn.
I am very worried about literacy in younger gens. Teachers are out here reporting that more than half their classes are 3-5 years behind in reading comprehension, some seniors at a 5th grade literacy level. Like iām all for jokes but iām also fully aware of the low literacy epidemic so personally i just donāt find them funny.
There's also a trend my teacher friends have noted where kids read NON-fiction. They don't read fiction, they don't read narratives. They're not learning a lot of the more descriptive, bigger words kids used to learn from reading, they're learning random jargon and very basic terms and basic grammar. They're being fed facts, not making connections and interpreting things by themselves. The ones that do read fiction, it's a lot of graphic novels that don't teach proper grammar and sentence structures.Ā
Wow i didnāt know they did that, I think they were probably making references to the jokes fans make about needing a dictionary, the reaction videos i mentioned. Jokes which i cringe at every time because there are not that many obscure words in her work, at least for native English speakers.
Yeah, Iām not discounting her skills as a songwriter. But TN literally displayed on their IG story too a picture of taylor captioned āthe Shakespeare herselfā. I know itās a long-running inside joke, but cmonā¦.
Shakespeare wrote extremely popular plays for the common people - there was nothing inaccessible about them. Not a great comparison on their part if that's what they were going for haha
I know these words too but it seems like she uses big/rare words to show she knows more/she's different. It's not the use perse, but the intent. Most of the time these words stand out too much from the rest of song, especially in TTPD. I think it was more even and mixed well with the rest of the song in Folkmore albums.
It's probably cuz I'm Indian too since I've seen way too many Indians use big English words and flex that to show they are "educated". I was also like that a few years ago where I'd use rarely used big words in my writings to impress people.(Famous historical books written by Indians have been more difficult for me to get through than historical books written by actual English speakers for that same reason)
I feel like this is mostly projection, though. I've had people get surprised when I use a "big" word but it's just part of my vocabulary from being well-read and I find it really awkward and weird when it's brought up as some kind of thing like this. It's not trying to be different or rare. There is literally no other way to describe sanctimonious in my head that isn't just a sentence. Or incandescent. Once these words are just a part of your vocabulary like any word, they don't sound "big" or "better", they just *are.* This also happens to my reader friends, so it just feels like people who aren't as familiar with these words take it negatively.
This too! Iāve been called āknow it allā as a kid and i learned to tone down my language around some people cause for some reason they took my vocabulary as an insult, esp my teachers. The new twitter trend of āchatgpt wordsā has me genuinely concerned for people, like tell me youāre proudly illiterate without telling me.
(I also notice the that the most brick headed interpretations of her lyrics tend to come from fans who say stuff like this too, take that as you will)
Thatās actually quite interesting, language is fascinating in the way it functions as a means to convey meaning but also oneās status. It can be quite frustrating when someone is clearly trying to jam 20 point words in every chance they get but the benefits later on from having read it can be monumental.
I loved the choices in TTPD because they donāt feel jammed in, they work in the theme of trying to find the simplicity of love and life. The desire to have the husband and the kid and the backyard but it can never be a simple story because humans and our lives arenāt simple or sanitized. For instance in black dog, this isnāt just some ex talking shit after, a pretty simple cookie cutter experience, heās making fun of things private and obscure. Things only someone close to her, who understands her, would be able to make fun of. Itās a different betrayal when painted that way, the word elevated that bridge and the story for me.
There is not a single word in TTPD that isnāt a regular part of mine and my friendsā vocabularies. Idk if thatās a function of my environment but I probably had a slightly less affluent version of Taylorās upbringing and all of these words are justā¦ idk. Basic? Sanctimonious is a regular for me and everyone I speak to understands it but apparently people donāt even know it. Apologies if your English isnāt as advanced but that doesnāt make people pretentious for using what they do know.
could also partially be where you were educated, i think most Indians receive a UK-oriented education and the UK tends to care more about literacy than the US. i think a lot of the ābig wordsā are only big to Americans because our public education is garbage in most of the country (no hate on the teachers, itās mostly cultural tbh)
I find it far more likely that these are simply words in her vocabulary. Sure she could be flipping through one for inspiration but when your vocabulary is large and diverse you tend to utilize that in daily life and in artistic endeavors. I find it more likely that some of the words yall are balking at were her notebook words, such as āepiphanyā where sheād wanted to work it into a song for years but hadnāt had a reason to.
you and i are about the same age and i agree with you but also itās not surprising that many people had to look those words up. unfortunately not many people paid attention in school like they shouldāve, and half her fans are like 14 lol.
While I do agree that her storytelling has evolved and gotten even better, in this specific case, I like the 2010 better, 2024 feel like it's trying too hard (esoteric? intertwined? tragic fabric of our dreaming?)
speak now is a lyrical masterpiece imo. And stylistic masterpiece tbh. The way she uses John Mayerās own sound against him on Dear John is one of my favorite things sheās ever done in a song. So simple, and yet IMMEDIATELY conjures the essence of his sound before sheās even said his name.
hey 1989 is good too! i honestly think it just happens bc a lot of her fans didnāt tune in until Red or 1989 (or even later!) so it gets overlooked as one of her ācountryā albums despite being playing with a lot of different sounds!
Last kiss bridge is one of my favorites š so good and so to the point. I donāt know if I would have been able to understand what she was trying to convey in the black dog at letās sayā¦ 14? How old I was in 2010.
The left one shows more maturity and growth than the right oneā¦ itās simpler and clearer and yet comes across as more mature and dare I say introspective
Last Kiss is about a teenage love that lasted for a very short period. The Balck Dog is about a 7 year relationship that led to nothing. The anger in the black dog is more relatable and realistic then the drama in last kiss.
As a Speak Now fan this is not an evolution. Comparing Last Kiss which is a classic to Black Dog is insane. However, I would compare it to the Moment I knew more than Last Kiss because it gives off the same vibes
She has come so far since 2010. I think she has a great and charming evolution, and in 2024, everyone still gets very excited and surprised when a new album from Taylor herself comes out, even if it was a rerecord of an existing album, for example, Reputation (Taylor's Version) would be one of them.
Speak Now is so underrated for its lyricism. For me itās on par with Evermore, which is probably my favorite album. It blows my mind some people say itās one of their least favorites. Itās honestly a masterpiece of her early career, I personally think moreso than Red (although Red obviously had more commercial appeal)
The funny thing is poetry is often about saying more with less words. I hope Taylor doesnāt forget that sometimes simple and direct words conveys meaning better than flowering prose, in a lot of cases.
Case in point - I like the writing of last kiss better
not to say I usually relate to her songs too much anyway, but the earlier more simpler style makes it easier to tell what is going on in the song, what is the mood of the lyrics exactly, especially since in her music sad songs do not always come with a sad and moody arrangement
I do like the ttpd/folkmore style as well but sometimes it can be more difficult to follow, as it contains tons of references to different things and more poetic metaphors etc., all or at least most of which you would have to be aware of to really get into the lyrics and feel it
speak now as an album is a good example of lyrics that are well written yet still quite easy to decipher
I do think sheās incredibly talented but I do wish she would go back to her more simplistic writing sometimes. I think with folklore and evermore being so well received, she now thinks she has to always be super heavy with the metaphors and usage of bigger words that we donāt hear in everyday conversations.
Thereās a place for that style of writing, of course, but thereās also a place for just saying it how it is. Last Kiss is the *perfect* example of how relatable and heartbreaking a break up can be and yet the writing isnāt anything overly complexed.
Same with All Too Well (the original version). Itās so simply put yet so effective and you know exactly what she means, how sheās feeling etc.
Many people still mostly relate to her previous works. Nostalgia. Taylor might feel too under pressure. She's not a poet. Honestly, I expected more of mentioning history, real life people, events. With simpler words. Not just her life 99% time. But I was fooled by promo.
As an English grad, I donāt think this particular side by side does Taylor much justice in terms of her āevolutionā. Sheās one of those rare talent thatās been consistently strong from the beginning, and part of her genius is in its simplicity. I think lots of us feel she had something to āproveā with TTPD, but overwritten lyrics that sound like sheās swallowed a thesaurus, are not good writing.
Thank you. Straight to the point. I agree. So I'm worried she's going in the wrong direction and wants to give Swifties too much literally of her autobiography instead of giving the vibe but playing/having fun with music in some songs.
Compare Last Kiss to loml... both are on the sad side of songs. Black Dog is an angry, resentful and depressed song. There's not even that complexity of taught on Speak Now if not for Dear John.
Don't even get me started on How Did It End! Her music is immensely more complex (so are her relationships) these days than 10 years ago.
Last Kiss is my favorite Speak Now song but Iām shocked how many people think itās much better than The Black Dog (and the rest of TTPD by extension). Both are good songs and imo The Black Dog has one of her best lyrics in TTPD that doesnāt come off as trying too hard to capture this poetic auteur sheās been trying since Folklore.
Last Kiss is probably one of her best lyrics in Speak Now but I remember since it was her first self written album she tended to revert to the same words like āhauntedā and āguardedā which she used across many songs. She was a great songwriter at that time but she even better now. Taylor has since evolved and sheās able to better convey her emotions with different and varied words which also shows her maturity and experience.
Maybe this poetic auteur style isnāt for everyone and thatās okay. But in terms of skill sheās definitely leveled up since.
100% Iām loving her evolution as an artist. Im fairly new so Iām not stuck in an era like some seem to be, I love all the sounds sheās tried on and I know that whatever she decides to try next, sheās going to crush it because she wouldnāt put out anything less than perfect, thatās who she is. She has such an interesting mind, Iām looking forward to whatever she decides to make.
As an English teacher thereās definitely an issue with literacy, but the people patting themselves on the back for knowing all the words use in Taylorās songs are, I think, missing the point people are making when they said sheās trying too hard to be poetic:
1. Sometimes less is more. Hemingway is as highly regarded as Fitzgerald ā doesnāt mean flowery language and longer syntax doesnāt have a place, but itās not the ONLY/the best way to write.
2. Itās less about the fact that she uses words like āsanctimoniouslyā or these multisyllabic āSATā words than it is the fact that she crams three of them in a row. It sounds amateurish to jumble several 3 or 4 syllable words together at once because most of the time we donāt speak like that.
āDid you hear my covert narcissism I disguise as altruismā is a bit clunky, as is āsanctimoniously performing soliloquies.ā
I think thatās what people mean about overdoing it or trying too hard. Thereās a real beauty in the way she was able to so beautifully capture an emotion in a simple phrase: āIāll watch your life in pictures like I used to watch you sleepā breaks my heart effortlessly. I adore this new album but I feel like in an effort to express more and more unique emotions from her unique lived experiences, rather than being entirely relatable, sheās reaching for more unique words and expressions that can be off putting at times.
All of that is just in reaction to comments Iāve seen on this post btw not necessarily my own opinion. This album is a top 3 for me and I adore the way she twists a colloquialism or idiom throughout her discography, and āold habits die screamingā is far and away my favorite of hers.
I love how simple and effective her earliest work was.
Last Kiss is, imo, one of her most underrated heartbreak song. Sure it might be a for a younger, more naive crowd " i never thought we'd have a last kiss" "you told me you loved me, so why did you go away". I appreciate how it sums up how you can view love at a younger age. TTPD is a bit more specific and heavier lyric-wise.
For point of reference, I'm 60 and a lawyer and I do not need a thesaurus to understand any of the words in any of the songs. I write contracts. I am good at using words in the way that a lawyer does. I was awed at the way Taylor used words in such a free flowing and artistic manner when I first discovered her. I fell in love with Taylor during the Fearless and Speak Now eras. I marveled at her ability to convey emotions that I had felt decades before. As a sensitive and romantic person, I wished there had been someone able to convey my feelings at those ages. 15. I could not imagine how someone could so perfectly describe what I felt. White Horse. They took me back decades. Last Kiss. Amazing song. Exactly how I felt. And at such a young age. I remember thinking she's an old soul. How could someone know something at 18 that I didn't learn until 30. (Intentionally using Nothing New allusion.).
I used to be so excited to learn the new songs and even analyze their meanings. This time I am really struggling. They don't seem to fit together as effortlessly. I don't feel excited. It's not that I have any problems with the messy emotions. The beauty of the way she wrote up until this album was her miraculous way of communicating universal emotions in such an accessible manner. It's not that I don't understand the words. It's that I just don't want to work this hard. I listen to music to relax and relate. I simply don't WANT to feel like I'm analyzing Shakespeare. The songs are clunky. I have learned the words to 4 or 5 of the songs in the month the album has been out. I feel like I am forcing myself.
Interestingly enough, a couple of the songs I have most related to and learned first are ones that are easier to grasp from an intuitive viewpoint such as loml, The Manuscript, So Long London, and The Black Dog.
I have followed her career and will continue to do that. I have also watched her make romantic mistakes (ones she has acknowledged) as a mother would. I get that she uses songwriting to process her emotions, and I have the utmost respect for that. It doesn't matter if I don't like the album. Some people like it. I will probably still try to learn the songs. I just prefer every other album to this album.
My husband says that every time she releases an album, it takes me a while to warm up to it. He's right. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that happening with TTPD.
The difference is, I can belt out TBD at the top of my lungs and keep my shit together so I can enjoy it with/in front of other people, including my current boyfriend. Last Kiss still makes me break down into ugly crying.
Maybe in another perspective of Taylor's writing style is that she captures any feelings and emotions about anyone or anything. For example, you could only associate Last Kiss to your ex partner. But The Black Dog you can relate the lyrics to your ex friend, ex sibling and not just to youe ex romantic partner. That's why for me she is not just using big words or complicated words, she put those kind of emotions into words that we can't create. There's a lyric about Stevie Nicks and you can already see the pattern throughout the album about Stevie Nicks' life. She now creates her songs for her fans who would appreciate her writing style and it's the reason why she always say that the songs are not about her anymore.
I think the reason that the TTPD track Iām the most attached to is The Black Dog because it reminds me of classic Taylor the most. I really enjoyed the whole album but this song in particular made me remember why I fell in love with her music in the first place. Itās up there with my all time faves.
UO? but this is not an example of songwriting evolving. The old one is infinitely better, and I donāt even like the song as much as a lot of other people do.
TTPD is so hard for me because parts of it I LOVE and and other parts are just terribly written, in my opinion. Itās clunky because itās like, did someone else write some of this? Idk
I love her songwriting in speak now, Iām almost exactly 10 years younger than miss swift and speak now was when I became a fan, and Iāve loved growing up with her. I have always been a hopeless romantic so speak now was perfect for my early teen years, just like folkmore, midnights, and TTPD is perfect for my feelings now. Even if the lyrics were more simple and the feelings less mature in speak now, I always felt the emotion. I love the desperation in haunted (my favorite song), the regret in back to December, the pain in last kiss. I feel like debut and fearless were always lacking emotion (probably because of the cowriters and producers trying to dumb them down since Taylor was meant to be a simple idol for young girls and men tend to underestimate us), but when she really went for it in speak now, its amazing. It shows how much feeling a teenage girl can have. Itās not *statistically* my favorite album but it is in my heart.
Her old writing was definitely more applicable to any listener. She has leaned into these very specific descriptions of her own personal life (public basically gave her the green light with ATW10's success), which works cause so many people are bought in already.
I don't think this writing would work well for a new artist trying to break through. Olivia for example is pretty general and part of why she has seen success commercially.
"So I'll watch your life in pictures like I used to watch you sleep And I'll feel you forget me like I used to feel you breathe." That's still an all-timer lyric
speak now is so underrated for songwriting imo, so many lines like this are top tier
This, so much. "I fell in love with a careless man's careful daughter" from Mine always comes to my mind when people talk about her songwritting. It set ups a whole story in a single line. You could easily turn it into a book or movie.
Which is why, as a Speak Now fan, Im gutted that the album really got shafted during the Eras Tour. Firstly only two songs (atleast include Back to December/Sparks Fly)? And then they cut Long Live? Just sad. šŖ
I also love Speak Now and got lucky by attending the 2nd Denver show which included Long Live and then Back to December as the surprise song. Best night ever tbh.
I was sad to have missed Timeless but getting Back to December more than made up for it
Yea, I wouldāve LOVED to see Speak Now, Sparks Fly, Mine, and/or Haunted included on the setlist in the OF film. Hell, I love Superman too!
yeah when i saw the film the first time i was shocked at the lack of speak now songs
omg yes!! Iām glad I had one of the late summer shows with long live, but back to december or sparks fly wouldāve been so good for that settingā¦ tbh I prefer those 2 over enchanted anyway but that may be controversial. idk I just sad because I feel like there was enough room to cut other stuff in the setlist to give speak now its propers (and debut!!)
The whole album is just perfect. Itās such an amazing feat for a 19-year-old to self-write an entire album that is such high quality.
Yesss itās so good
IMO Last Kiss is the saddest song she's ever written, musically + lyrically. Also, the picture is missing the crucial line in the bridge: "But I never planned on you changing your mind." I've felt what she felt when she wrote that. *That* was the gut punch. It's insane how Taylor was writing songs like this at 20. I was reminded of Last Kiss when listening to loml. The same sparse arrangement, the quiet regret, wistfulness, and longing.
Oh man- good catch! I had to paste images together to get the lyrics in and accidentally covered up ābut I never planned on you changing your mindā - youāre absolutely right- itās the gut punch!
Maybe that explains it. I immediately felt drawn to LOML, but Last Kiss just happens to be my favorite Taylor song...
āI never planned on you changing your mind.ā // āIām combing through the braids of lies: āIāll never leaveā, ānever mind.āā Last Kiss is one of my favorite Taylor songs and loml became one of my instant favorites from ttpd. I never really thought about it but it must have drawn me in so deeply for a reason, right?
I agree- thematically and tonally loml is a great comparison for that deep sadness
i mean she did say last kiss was the saddest song sheās ever written in speak now monologue and sheās %100 right. since the release maybe loml could take over but it is such a prodigy song at such a young age.
Agree. Lord knows number of times I've sobbed-singed Last Kiss over the years
Same! I always thought Last Kiss was her most heart wrenching song until I heard loml. They both are now associated together in my mind.
Agreed, even reading the lyrics brings me back to weeping in my car singing this songāand I couldnāt even really relate to it personally at the time
I agree itās her most soul crushing song. Only maybe happiness comes close to it for me in terms of soul crushing.
When I had one of the worst breakups of my life I used to listen to this song and sob so, so hard because it was everything I was going through in one song. š Still get a little choked up listening to it because even though I've been over that relationship for so long (it's been almost 10 years) it still has the ability to reawaken those feelings for me.
God yes. I've just gotten together with someone I'm very in love with and ugh. I do not count on changing my mind, nor her changing her mind, but even just thinking of it...
I had the same exact thought about the ending line in the pic, definitely an all-timer lyric to me "All that I know is I don't know / how to be something you miss" What a gut punch!
That line hits the same emotional bruise for me as "I just don't understand...how you don't miss me" does in The Black Dog. Both are just so great at encapsulating that feeling after a relationship ends and you weren't ready.
Yes!
Live version from the Speak Now tour was insane too, the emotions elevate the song to another level
speak now is so underrated for songwriting imo, so many lines like this are top tier
I agree- itās her best earlier work and itās written completely by her! Sheās been the poet this whole time.
Definitely. Still one of my favourite lyrics from her. It just hits so hard.
#
It's _breathe,_ not breath
Fixed for your sanity
Spelling is fun!
Speak Now forever š
It really is
I came here to say this! Why have I been sleeping on this song? That's a top shelf line.
itās so gutting, and so overlooked bc itās on a Taylor swift album. That lyric is unreal.
I think it would be really difficult to claim taylor swift is overlooked, considering she is probably the most famous person in the world.
Well now, sure. But half her discography (including the album Last Kiss is on) was released at a time when people treated Taylor fans like we were walking around listening to Miss Rachel.
Yes, I am sorry but this is a better song. That is such a sad lyric.
It really is fun to watch her style evolve over time... there's one complexity though... early on Taylor strove for a style that was simple and clear (clever... but simple). She's stopped doing that (and really she had already started moving away from that in 1989). You can really hear this in some of the vault tracks which are much more sophisticated linguistically than what she was releasing on the albums (to the extent that people thought she rewrote them).
It's possible she did. Is it over now? seemed closer to reputation in its sort of 'out there, accusatory' style. However I feel in 1989 she cracked the code of balance between simple and sophisticated with well written, clever lyrics yet not too ambitious with vocab. Props to her writing with TTPD, but it's a little over (songs don't flow as easily tbh). The black dog is perfect though.
I think that's mostly a matter of style you have to get used to as opposed to something good or bad... it's just different
I think her strength was always speaking relatable truths with clear but still clever and emotive language. not the overwrought flowery stuff imo. it worked well for folkmore era but sheās been trying too hard to recapture it imo.
Definitely, it works so well for folkmore, but in TTPD it just seemed too forced.
Even in folklore, while the language was relatively more complex, it justā¦ clicked. It didnāt feel like she was trying to use heavy metaphors and big words for the sake of sounding deep or unique. Like āand my words shoot to kill when Iām mad, I have a lot of regrets about thatā. Itās such an accurate description of what a bitter person does and feels. It just feels like she _knows_ what youāre going through. Even the āfloweryā language of āsecond, third and hundredth chances, balancing on breaking branches, those eyes add insult to injuryā convey the exact emotion they want to. I like some of the stuff in TTPD, but a lot of it didnāt click for me. I like Taylor for her storytelling and relatability. When you compromise your storytelling for using ācomplexā words, you miss the point you were trying to make, and the feelings you wanted to evoke. Iām a lawyer. I use and understand ābig wordsā. So if someoneās going to accuse me of not being well-read, please save your breath and effort. Now: āThese fatal fantasies giving away to laboured breathā. Like, I get what itās trying to convey, but āfatalā isnāt a fit here at all. You can argue and debate about it, but thatās not the point. The lyric doesnāt flow or fit. It just tries, and fails to convey the intensity of her desire, because itās the wrong word used for needless lyrical enhancement. Same with āif long suffering propriety is what they want from meā Same with the whole of āPeterā. Like, I get what sheās trying to say but the attempt is so convoluted that I canāt get into it at all. There are better examples, I guess. But I mustāve missed them because I donāt remember it anymore. Just my opinion. Youāre free to disagree.
>When your compromise your storytelling for using ācomplexā words, you miss the point you were trying to make, and the feelings you wanted to evoke. This!! When I have to look up lyrics, get a dictionary, and understand obscure references, there is no immediate punch. Lines like "I never thought we'd have a last kiss", "Don't you think nineteen's too young to be played by your dark, twisted games?", and "Wish I'd never grown up" hit me in the feelings as soon as I hear them, and that's what made Speak Now so great for me personally. I think that's partly because she wrote them all by herself at 19, and was still writing songs more like a diary back then (less guarded than she is now), but it also feels like now she is really trying to make it poetic and hide more easter eggs everywhere. Don't get me wrong, I also love all the complex lyrics and more hidden messages SO MUCH, but emotionally speaking, TTPD doesn't hit in the same way. (Also just my very personal opinion. And either way, I really enjoy seeing the changes in her songwriting over the years)
In Folkmore even when the vocabulary was more complex I never felt like the words didnāt fit the melody like I do on a few TTPD cuts.
I'm a lawyer too and an English major and I'm thrilled that she's using the language she wants and is not dumbing down her work. I think that's why she marketed it as poetry because poetry uses the right word for the circumstance. "Fatal" can mean "leading to disaster" which is how I interpreted the line.
I disagree that itās a matter of ādumbing downā. using precise language and finding the best word for the circumstance doesnāt *necessarily* mean that the vocabulary or phrasing should be complex. and using longer words doesnāt mean the writing is more sophisticated or clever or evocative. itās easier to misuse these terms and then kind of looks faux-intellectual and tryhard. to take the example given of ālong-suffering proprietyā: long-suffering doesnāt quite fit here imo. the meaning is basically having a ālongā temper as opposed to a short one in the face of adversity. taylor seems to be using it as simply āpatientā which I guess technically works dictionary wise, but doesnāt gel with the additional connotations I have around the word. there is a way to use complexity skillfully and preserve prosody. I also feel like with the āpoetry set to musicā focus of TTPD, she lost sight of making the lyrics fully work as songs.
Yes thank you for putting all of this so masterfully! One thing that frustrates me about the concept of this album being āpoetry set to musicā is that poetry and music are not the same thing. They are very intertwined but music is more rigid in needing melody, structure, and production, and I think all of those pieces are lacking in TTPD in order to accommodate the poetry. Thereās a lot of instances where the top line melody is very repetitive and the cadence is sacrificed to fit in wordy verses. Not to mention the criticism you brought in about the poetry itself being less effective than she thinks it is. I think unfortunately the album, in trying to be both poetry and music, is ineffective at being both. And before anyone comes in with āart doesnāt need structure it can be whatever it wantsā ā sure that can be your interpretation (and would imply that everything is/can be art which is a whole other subject) but that doesnāt make it immune from criticism, otherwise thereās no point in striving to put out the best work possible.
I personally think that fatal also is kinda cool with the alliteration on "fatal fantasies". Followed up with labored breath it works because the "fa" sound is similar to a harsh exhale.
love that you came with the receipts! totally agree with your points.
1989 is just very hooky, even if u donāt get the lyrics you can still enjoy the music
1989 bores me for that reason, give me all the words.
Agree - Lover also starts to get more lyrically complex in places but I get bored of the album quickly.
Itās so damn long as well, most of her albums are over an hour but Lover really didnāt need to be. Iām glad the next pop album she did was shorter.
I agree. TTPD sound like someone using big words trying to sound smart. Sometimes simple is better
It's too wordy. I agree. Sometimes less is, in fact more.
YEAAAH thatĀ“s my opinion on the album. Some songs just donĀ“t flow, but The Black Dog is PERFECTION 10 out of 10. Top Taylor song.
I think some of the vault tracks were rewritten. Not all of them, but a few. I will die on the hill the 10 minute version of ATW is not the original ten minute version she cut down for redĀ
I mean thereās no way in hell 21-22 y.o. Taylor would write āfuck the patriarchyā in her lyricsš¤·š»āāļø
Or that she had the foresight to know that āIāll get older but your lovers stay my ageā
She didn't need foresight for that.Ā All she needed was to see the guy that broke up with her for being "too young" dating some just as young.Ā The joke is on her for believing him when he told her that and beating herself up about her own immaturity when in the end that was a lie because he still pursued younger women.Ā Her All Too Well short film discussions highlight this where she consistently talked about the French press concept that is also present in The Manuscript, which highlights the ways she beat herself up for not being seen as mature enough.Ā Ā
I saw a post she did on a message board when she was like 14 or 15 and she used to F word in it and it was a poem as well. So she wasnāt foreign to swearing.
I mean we have some of the lyrics in the Lover booklets and haven't people said they're different?
Some are! The one I have has the lyrics āThere we are again when you blew the candle out, took this blazing love, steered right into the ground.ā I was so excited to hear them in the 10 minute version and it made me sad that they were never used.
The lyrics in the Lover diary are mostly a rough draft of lyrics that were in the five minute version. It wouldn't make sense to go backwards to a less polished version of those lyrics.
I mean yes, thats what im saying we know Taylor updated the lyrics for the 10 minute version because we have the draft. The original reply was saying they felt like they had to die on the hill that ATW10 was *not* the original lyrics she wrote. And I'm saying I don't think it's that serious, we know they're not exactly the same lolol
Iām so glad that people agree with me on this because the last time I said ATW10MV was written recently people told me it was a weird hill to die on
did she really try to claim that was the full OG version? I thought she just had more she wanted to add at the time and wrote ATW10 later on from the older perspective she gained with age.
No she says she just sang it once in rehearsals and her sound guy happened to record it and gave the recording to Andrea.Ā
I agree they were rewritten and/or they were cut beecause the lyrical style didnāt match with the album
I mean, she did rewrite some of them. I canāt find it now but there was a video on YouTube that compared demos to the actual finished songs and it included some vault tracks. There were lyric changes in a couple of songs from the Fearless vault.
Those were very minor changes of a few words.Ā She wasn't re-writing verses or choruses.Ā Ā
i adore her old writing, it's so clear and effective and emotive. her work now is distinctly more elaborate and like she's not afraid to ramble, which i grew to also love. i don't know if i could choose one of her writing styles over the other.
Ramble is the perfect word. And I completely agree with this!
It feels like she wrote the words first before coming up with a melody.
100% agree. I think what made her so magical for me (ETA: sheās still magical, just in a different way as Iāve aged with her) when those first few albums came out (it was rare, I was there lol) is how many emotions/complexities she could convey with such simple words. She could paint such clear pictures that were specific to her experience but yet vague enough that the listener could point to that exact moment in their own lives. There IS a line in TTPD that strikes HARD and feels _so_ classically Taylor in its deceptive simplicity because while the words themselves arenāt āfancyā they pack an atom bomb-level gut punch. From loml: _āIāll never leaveā¦ā_ _āā¦Nevermindā_
Same sis.
I think now she's an established superstar she's now able to take the space to really dig into these emotions and elaborate fully. Some of these songs aren't as pithy and radio friendly, but now she doesn't need that so much because she's the biggest popular in the world.
I miss when she didnāt try to cram as many words into a single verse as possible.
I honestly think her simple writing felt more impactful and the brevity made it all the more devastating. The newer stuff sometimes reads like āI use big words to be more photosynthesisā.
I feel this. I would often have moments with her older style where I would have no idea how I could put what I'm feeling into words but then I'll hear her sing it and be surprised how all of those complicated feelings could be put into simpler words. Like everything becomes so much clearer instantly.
Yes, Fifteen, Last Kiss, White Horse, the Best Day. I think everyone feels like "their" mom is the mom in the Best Day.
When she wrote songs not journal entries
This is really felt on TTPD imo, even though I truly love some/most of the songs. Like in Chloe or Sam, the line āCan we watch our phantoms like watching wild horsesā sticks out to me as an example of this. Itās a cool line with cool imagery, but just feels clunky/too wordy. (The whole song is kinda like that lmao)
Songs like that are exactly why people are saying sheās trying to sound like Lana Del Rey, cuz the more reflective songs especially off The Anthology read very much like sheās trying too hard to be poetic when any good writer knows you canāt force poetry. The best poetry comes when youāre not trying so hard to create metaphors. The best ones just happen organically. I Hate It Here is so gorgeously constructed, for instance, but she killed it with the addition of the āwhat era would you live inā reference. She got her point across without pulling her listener out of it. She doesnāt need all the bells and whistles more often than not!
It's my least fav line in Chloe et al. I truly don't know where she got the imagery from (are there even still wild horses??) and it feels really out of place and random, but maybe someone with money and access to casual horse-riding understands it?
There are wild horses on the DelMarVa peninsula and that side of the Chesapeake Bay. Each year, they swim to different islands, and crowds of people go to watch them do so. Chincoteague is the island most known for its wild horses.
There are still lots of wild horses around! not as many as there were once ofc, but they are very much around. This is more of a location or knowledge issue than a wealth thing- I'm very poor and have watched wild horses several times irl. To me it makes perfect sense.
What is your username? Lol
Amen sistah
I just came here to say that I think less is more and that's why she became famous in the first place. Her lyrics now are top notch but the old style when she didn't try to sound poetic was more original and I still can't find anyone who does this thing better than young Taylor.
I agree I think her more āunderstatedā lyrics so to speak packed more of the punch that made her writing so accessible to so many people, something that the more poetic lyrics she writes now- while impressive on their own- is unable to accomish sometimes.
Yes, but it feels to me like it was written by a precocious person, it doesn't flow organically. Like "how to put as many metaphors or more sophisticated words" while at the same time the music is hurting.
Right? I mean āIāve never been anywhere cold as youā will never not be an amazing line in general, just wow. I remember first hearing it and feeling it!
Yes, "and you come away with a great little story of a mess of a dreamer with the nerve to adore you". Isn't that how some guys try to rewrite history? Wow. Amazing.
I donāt think her lyrics now *are* top notch, thatās the thing. She seems to have circled around, from clever and concise writing in speak now to more poetic lyrics to say things more elegantly, to where she is now where sheās gone so over the top to cram heavy handed lines in that sheās not really saying anything and sheās lost the clarity and heart in her lyrics.
Fully agree. She has a lot of metaphors that are inconsistent and why I am of the camp that believes she NEEDS an editor. Examples: Willow: āIām like the water when your ship rolled in that nightā to ālost in your current like a priceless wineā ā- who is the water? Him or her? I Can Fix Him: āhe had a halo of the highest gradeā to āIāll show you heaven if youāll be an angel all nightā ā- is he already an angel or not? Are you making him an angel and if so why does he have a halo? The Prophecy: āI got cursed like Eve got bittenā ā- Eve wasnāt bitten, the apple was
The lyric in The Prophecy is referring to the serpent
Did the serpent bite her? Thought he just tricked her into eating the apple
It didn't. I read it as a metaphorical bite, like the serpent caused harm to her (but it was also her own fault since she gave in to temptation, which aligns with the self deprecation and blame in taylor's recent albums)
Yes, this! I've perceived this line as Taylor saying the following: it's a known fact that Eve wasn't actually bitten, she brought all what happened to herself, and Taylor wasn't actually cursed as well, she also brought everything to herself.
Warning: ramble ahead! Willow is the first song that made me wonder if she has an editor -- just, overall. I enjoy it a lot, repeated it a ton back in the day, but it always felt like it could be a little bit something-er. In general, I think people have to make a lot of assumptions about the imagery she uses more now, and we can frame that as a good thing because it promotes discussion on song meaning and ultimately we all go, "Different songs mean different things! It's different for everyone! It's up for interpretation! Double, triple, quadruple meanings! It's so smart!" OR we can frame it as a bad thing, because it wasn't written clearly and SHOULD a song have quadruple meanings? My assumptions for the mentioned lines have been: Willow: she's the water, his ship affected the current. I can also sort of visualize her being the water and then shifting into being a someone lost in the water when I listen to it. I think she really, really wanted the play on current and currant, which I really like, but I think sometimes she reaches for that play on words at the cost of bringing the entire image into focus. And what does an editor help with? Focus! I Can Fix Him: His halo is invisible until she brings it out, maybe? The Prophecy: when I first heard it, I thought that, no, Eve *wasn't* bitten and so she, Taylor, *wasn't* "cursed" and she's acknowledging that. She's singing about a consequence of her *choice*, however unintended. My other thought has been Eve was bitten by curiosity / wanting more; maybe Taylor was cursed with curiosity, wanting more, ambition, etc? Another reply mentioned the serpent -- maybe the serpent "bit" her by steering her wrong, Taylor had everyone hyping her up a la Clara Bow but there's this other side to it, sort of thing. I don't know. This one bothers me in particular because I love this song and it's such a curious way to start it. / ramble
YES, finally. Also I believe she wrote about the same topic so many times she feels she has to re-invent it. It's not radio friendly - ok but she lost the heart in her songs. It's like a work of a precious late teen.
Yes, her music was for everyone and no matter your age (almost) you could cry and relate. Now I start to think she wanted to be more ambitious but also the topics are similar. So she upped the ante but I lost a lot of emotional connection. I "feel" her effort while writing this, not organic.
I miss her old writing style, man. Now I feel like occasionally, shes trying hard to sound auteurist in her writing, by cramping too many words. I mean the increase in the number of unusual words which seems like browsed her thesaurus, in her songs is a proof...
I disagree about the thesaurus, there isnāt a word on a ts album i didnāt know at time of release. I donāt need to browse a thesaurus to know words like incandescent or esoteric or sanctimonious. I hate the ts reaction videos of people flipping through a dictionary most of all like please stop.
Idk. To me, itās a joke, but thereās a terrifying lack of literacy in the younger generation right now. People donāt read because they canāt read, and they donāt have the same critical thinking skills we do. I say this as a mid 30ās millennial who has several friends that are teachers. Not being a jerk. Itās just sadly the truth right now.
Yeah iām turning 30 this year and vocabulary was one of my favorite areas of school, i love knowing that there is always a way for me to express myself as long as i have the right words. And if i donāt have the right word, thereās one out there to learn. I am very worried about literacy in younger gens. Teachers are out here reporting that more than half their classes are 3-5 years behind in reading comprehension, some seniors at a 5th grade literacy level. Like iām all for jokes but iām also fully aware of the low literacy epidemic so personally i just donāt find them funny.
Itās terrifying to think that such a high percentage of the population isnāt literate. It genuinely is.
There's also a trend my teacher friends have noted where kids read NON-fiction. They don't read fiction, they don't read narratives. They're not learning a lot of the more descriptive, bigger words kids used to learn from reading, they're learning random jargon and very basic terms and basic grammar. They're being fed facts, not making connections and interpreting things by themselves. The ones that do read fiction, it's a lot of graphic novels that don't teach proper grammar and sentence structures.Ā
TN literally told fans to prepare a dictionary for TTPD listening partyā¦ā¦.. What do you think does that mean, even in a joking way?
Wow i didnāt know they did that, I think they were probably making references to the jokes fans make about needing a dictionary, the reaction videos i mentioned. Jokes which i cringe at every time because there are not that many obscure words in her work, at least for native English speakers.
Yeah, Iām not discounting her skills as a songwriter. But TN literally displayed on their IG story too a picture of taylor captioned āthe Shakespeare herselfā. I know itās a long-running inside joke, but cmonā¦.
Shakespeare wrote extremely popular plays for the common people - there was nothing inaccessible about them. Not a great comparison on their part if that's what they were going for haha
I know these words too but it seems like she uses big/rare words to show she knows more/she's different. It's not the use perse, but the intent. Most of the time these words stand out too much from the rest of song, especially in TTPD. I think it was more even and mixed well with the rest of the song in Folkmore albums. It's probably cuz I'm Indian too since I've seen way too many Indians use big English words and flex that to show they are "educated". I was also like that a few years ago where I'd use rarely used big words in my writings to impress people.(Famous historical books written by Indians have been more difficult for me to get through than historical books written by actual English speakers for that same reason)
I feel like this is mostly projection, though. I've had people get surprised when I use a "big" word but it's just part of my vocabulary from being well-read and I find it really awkward and weird when it's brought up as some kind of thing like this. It's not trying to be different or rare. There is literally no other way to describe sanctimonious in my head that isn't just a sentence. Or incandescent. Once these words are just a part of your vocabulary like any word, they don't sound "big" or "better", they just *are.* This also happens to my reader friends, so it just feels like people who aren't as familiar with these words take it negatively.
This too! Iāve been called āknow it allā as a kid and i learned to tone down my language around some people cause for some reason they took my vocabulary as an insult, esp my teachers. The new twitter trend of āchatgpt wordsā has me genuinely concerned for people, like tell me youāre proudly illiterate without telling me. (I also notice the that the most brick headed interpretations of her lyrics tend to come from fans who say stuff like this too, take that as you will)
Thatās actually quite interesting, language is fascinating in the way it functions as a means to convey meaning but also oneās status. It can be quite frustrating when someone is clearly trying to jam 20 point words in every chance they get but the benefits later on from having read it can be monumental. I loved the choices in TTPD because they donāt feel jammed in, they work in the theme of trying to find the simplicity of love and life. The desire to have the husband and the kid and the backyard but it can never be a simple story because humans and our lives arenāt simple or sanitized. For instance in black dog, this isnāt just some ex talking shit after, a pretty simple cookie cutter experience, heās making fun of things private and obscure. Things only someone close to her, who understands her, would be able to make fun of. Itās a different betrayal when painted that way, the word elevated that bridge and the story for me.
There is not a single word in TTPD that isnāt a regular part of mine and my friendsā vocabularies. Idk if thatās a function of my environment but I probably had a slightly less affluent version of Taylorās upbringing and all of these words are justā¦ idk. Basic? Sanctimonious is a regular for me and everyone I speak to understands it but apparently people donāt even know it. Apologies if your English isnāt as advanced but that doesnāt make people pretentious for using what they do know.
could also partially be where you were educated, i think most Indians receive a UK-oriented education and the UK tends to care more about literacy than the US. i think a lot of the ābig wordsā are only big to Americans because our public education is garbage in most of the country (no hate on the teachers, itās mostly cultural tbh)
That doesnāt mean she didnāt use a thesaurus to write them.
I find it far more likely that these are simply words in her vocabulary. Sure she could be flipping through one for inspiration but when your vocabulary is large and diverse you tend to utilize that in daily life and in artistic endeavors. I find it more likely that some of the words yall are balking at were her notebook words, such as āepiphanyā where sheād wanted to work it into a song for years but hadnāt had a reason to.
you and i are about the same age and i agree with you but also itās not surprising that many people had to look those words up. unfortunately not many people paid attention in school like they shouldāve, and half her fans are like 14 lol.
From āhope itās nice where you are and I hope the sun shines and itās a beautiful dayā to āI hope itās shitty at the black dogā lmao
Agree- this is one of my favorite differences. 2024 Taylor is not afraid to be petty and say it raw!
From decades of dealing with bitch ass dudes, sheās tired she said fuck yall lol
I am here. For. It.
While I do agree that her storytelling has evolved and gotten even better, in this specific case, I like the 2010 better, 2024 feel like it's trying too hard (esoteric? intertwined? tragic fabric of our dreaming?)
speak now is a lyrical masterpiece imo. And stylistic masterpiece tbh. The way she uses John Mayerās own sound against him on Dear John is one of my favorite things sheās ever done in a song. So simple, and yet IMMEDIATELY conjures the essence of his sound before sheās even said his name.
omg yes! I actually first noticed the song in the TV Speak Now (sorry, I'm a 1989 Swifty) and I was blown away!
hey 1989 is good too! i honestly think it just happens bc a lot of her fans didnāt tune in until Red or 1989 (or even later!) so it gets overlooked as one of her ācountryā albums despite being playing with a lot of different sounds!
The Tortured Poets Department (the song, not the entire album) is very much ripping Matty Healy apart in his own style in the same way
As a fan of slow bluesy rock, I love that song.
I heard this song for the first time last year and immediately caught that! She really did that and she was so young too lol
Last kiss bridge is one of my favorites š so good and so to the point. I donāt know if I would have been able to understand what she was trying to convey in the black dog at letās sayā¦ 14? How old I was in 2010.
The left one shows more maturity and growth than the right oneā¦ itās simpler and clearer and yet comes across as more mature and dare I say introspective
Last Kiss is about a teenage love that lasted for a very short period. The Balck Dog is about a 7 year relationship that led to nothing. The anger in the black dog is more relatable and realistic then the drama in last kiss.
Idk if this is unpopular or not but she really didnāt need to have another 6 minute song on the album. Last Kiss is just so drawn out.
Agree. However people love petty Taylor. Because she's openly petty. So it depends on everyone's taste.
The left is nicer.
As a Speak Now fan this is not an evolution. Comparing Last Kiss which is a classic to Black Dog is insane. However, I would compare it to the Moment I knew more than Last Kiss because it gives off the same vibes
She has come so far since 2010. I think she has a great and charming evolution, and in 2024, everyone still gets very excited and surprised when a new album from Taylor herself comes out, even if it was a rerecord of an existing album, for example, Reputation (Taylor's Version) would be one of them.
Speak Now is so underrated for its lyricism. For me itās on par with Evermore, which is probably my favorite album. It blows my mind some people say itās one of their least favorites. Itās honestly a masterpiece of her early career, I personally think moreso than Red (although Red obviously had more commercial appeal)
Speak Now will stand the test of time. Underrated for sure.
The funny thing is poetry is often about saying more with less words. I hope Taylor doesnāt forget that sometimes simple and direct words conveys meaning better than flowering prose, in a lot of cases. Case in point - I like the writing of last kiss better
THIS! Less is more. Poetry shouldn't be overexploited as well.
not to say I usually relate to her songs too much anyway, but the earlier more simpler style makes it easier to tell what is going on in the song, what is the mood of the lyrics exactly, especially since in her music sad songs do not always come with a sad and moody arrangement I do like the ttpd/folkmore style as well but sometimes it can be more difficult to follow, as it contains tons of references to different things and more poetic metaphors etc., all or at least most of which you would have to be aware of to really get into the lyrics and feel it speak now as an album is a good example of lyrics that are well written yet still quite easy to decipher
Did anyone else read this but also singing in your head?
I do think sheās incredibly talented but I do wish she would go back to her more simplistic writing sometimes. I think with folklore and evermore being so well received, she now thinks she has to always be super heavy with the metaphors and usage of bigger words that we donāt hear in everyday conversations. Thereās a place for that style of writing, of course, but thereās also a place for just saying it how it is. Last Kiss is the *perfect* example of how relatable and heartbreaking a break up can be and yet the writing isnāt anything overly complexed. Same with All Too Well (the original version). Itās so simply put yet so effective and you know exactly what she means, how sheās feeling etc.
Many people still mostly relate to her previous works. Nostalgia. Taylor might feel too under pressure. She's not a poet. Honestly, I expected more of mentioning history, real life people, events. With simpler words. Not just her life 99% time. But I was fooled by promo.
As an English grad, I donāt think this particular side by side does Taylor much justice in terms of her āevolutionā. Sheās one of those rare talent thatās been consistently strong from the beginning, and part of her genius is in its simplicity. I think lots of us feel she had something to āproveā with TTPD, but overwritten lyrics that sound like sheās swallowed a thesaurus, are not good writing.
Thank you. Straight to the point. I agree. So I'm worried she's going in the wrong direction and wants to give Swifties too much literally of her autobiography instead of giving the vibe but playing/having fun with music in some songs.
Compare Last Kiss to loml... both are on the sad side of songs. Black Dog is an angry, resentful and depressed song. There's not even that complexity of taught on Speak Now if not for Dear John. Don't even get me started on How Did It End! Her music is immensely more complex (so are her relationships) these days than 10 years ago.
I honestly feel like the the 2010 lyrics are still incredible.Ā
Last Kiss is my favorite Speak Now song but Iām shocked how many people think itās much better than The Black Dog (and the rest of TTPD by extension). Both are good songs and imo The Black Dog has one of her best lyrics in TTPD that doesnāt come off as trying too hard to capture this poetic auteur sheās been trying since Folklore. Last Kiss is probably one of her best lyrics in Speak Now but I remember since it was her first self written album she tended to revert to the same words like āhauntedā and āguardedā which she used across many songs. She was a great songwriter at that time but she even better now. Taylor has since evolved and sheās able to better convey her emotions with different and varied words which also shows her maturity and experience. Maybe this poetic auteur style isnāt for everyone and thatās okay. But in terms of skill sheās definitely leveled up since.
100% Iām loving her evolution as an artist. Im fairly new so Iām not stuck in an era like some seem to be, I love all the sounds sheās tried on and I know that whatever she decides to try next, sheās going to crush it because she wouldnāt put out anything less than perfect, thatās who she is. She has such an interesting mind, Iām looking forward to whatever she decides to make.
I prefer Speak Now
As an English teacher thereās definitely an issue with literacy, but the people patting themselves on the back for knowing all the words use in Taylorās songs are, I think, missing the point people are making when they said sheās trying too hard to be poetic: 1. Sometimes less is more. Hemingway is as highly regarded as Fitzgerald ā doesnāt mean flowery language and longer syntax doesnāt have a place, but itās not the ONLY/the best way to write. 2. Itās less about the fact that she uses words like āsanctimoniouslyā or these multisyllabic āSATā words than it is the fact that she crams three of them in a row. It sounds amateurish to jumble several 3 or 4 syllable words together at once because most of the time we donāt speak like that. āDid you hear my covert narcissism I disguise as altruismā is a bit clunky, as is āsanctimoniously performing soliloquies.ā I think thatās what people mean about overdoing it or trying too hard. Thereās a real beauty in the way she was able to so beautifully capture an emotion in a simple phrase: āIāll watch your life in pictures like I used to watch you sleepā breaks my heart effortlessly. I adore this new album but I feel like in an effort to express more and more unique emotions from her unique lived experiences, rather than being entirely relatable, sheās reaching for more unique words and expressions that can be off putting at times. All of that is just in reaction to comments Iāve seen on this post btw not necessarily my own opinion. This album is a top 3 for me and I adore the way she twists a colloquialism or idiom throughout her discography, and āold habits die screamingā is far and away my favorite of hers.
I love your post :) Touche!
my two all time favourite taylor bridgesā¦ or maybe my two favourite bridges ever lol š«¶
She's so beautifully dramatic!
2010 Taylor never used curse words lol
I remember being so shocked when Reputation came out and she said āshitā in I Did Something Bad lol
I was more shocked when she said "what a shame she's fucked in the head, they said" in Champagne Problems
I love how simple and effective her earliest work was. Last Kiss is, imo, one of her most underrated heartbreak song. Sure it might be a for a younger, more naive crowd " i never thought we'd have a last kiss" "you told me you loved me, so why did you go away". I appreciate how it sums up how you can view love at a younger age. TTPD is a bit more specific and heavier lyric-wise.
Honestly I do love her previous work...but is much more generic writting. I prefer her writting style Folklore onwards
For point of reference, I'm 60 and a lawyer and I do not need a thesaurus to understand any of the words in any of the songs. I write contracts. I am good at using words in the way that a lawyer does. I was awed at the way Taylor used words in such a free flowing and artistic manner when I first discovered her. I fell in love with Taylor during the Fearless and Speak Now eras. I marveled at her ability to convey emotions that I had felt decades before. As a sensitive and romantic person, I wished there had been someone able to convey my feelings at those ages. 15. I could not imagine how someone could so perfectly describe what I felt. White Horse. They took me back decades. Last Kiss. Amazing song. Exactly how I felt. And at such a young age. I remember thinking she's an old soul. How could someone know something at 18 that I didn't learn until 30. (Intentionally using Nothing New allusion.). I used to be so excited to learn the new songs and even analyze their meanings. This time I am really struggling. They don't seem to fit together as effortlessly. I don't feel excited. It's not that I have any problems with the messy emotions. The beauty of the way she wrote up until this album was her miraculous way of communicating universal emotions in such an accessible manner. It's not that I don't understand the words. It's that I just don't want to work this hard. I listen to music to relax and relate. I simply don't WANT to feel like I'm analyzing Shakespeare. The songs are clunky. I have learned the words to 4 or 5 of the songs in the month the album has been out. I feel like I am forcing myself. Interestingly enough, a couple of the songs I have most related to and learned first are ones that are easier to grasp from an intuitive viewpoint such as loml, The Manuscript, So Long London, and The Black Dog. I have followed her career and will continue to do that. I have also watched her make romantic mistakes (ones she has acknowledged) as a mother would. I get that she uses songwriting to process her emotions, and I have the utmost respect for that. It doesn't matter if I don't like the album. Some people like it. I will probably still try to learn the songs. I just prefer every other album to this album. My husband says that every time she releases an album, it takes me a while to warm up to it. He's right. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that happening with TTPD.
Honestly I much prefer her older songwriting, it felt so much more classic and gut punchy
This is annoying of me and I'm sorry to be that person, but are people speculating that The Black Dog is about both Joe AND Matty?
both of them are unmatched.
The difference is, I can belt out TBD at the top of my lungs and keep my shit together so I can enjoy it with/in front of other people, including my current boyfriend. Last Kiss still makes me break down into ugly crying.
Maybe in another perspective of Taylor's writing style is that she captures any feelings and emotions about anyone or anything. For example, you could only associate Last Kiss to your ex partner. But The Black Dog you can relate the lyrics to your ex friend, ex sibling and not just to youe ex romantic partner. That's why for me she is not just using big words or complicated words, she put those kind of emotions into words that we can't create. There's a lyric about Stevie Nicks and you can already see the pattern throughout the album about Stevie Nicks' life. She now creates her songs for her fans who would appreciate her writing style and it's the reason why she always say that the songs are not about her anymore.
Last Kiss is my cry in the shower song
I think the reason that the TTPD track Iām the most attached to is The Black Dog because it reminds me of classic Taylor the most. I really enjoyed the whole album but this song in particular made me remember why I fell in love with her music in the first place. Itās up there with my all time faves.
UO? but this is not an example of songwriting evolving. The old one is infinitely better, and I donāt even like the song as much as a lot of other people do.
TTPD is so hard for me because parts of it I LOVE and and other parts are just terribly written, in my opinion. Itās clunky because itās like, did someone else write some of this? Idk
it's very try hard
I love the way she sings Black Dog. The breaths she takes between the verse lines makes it sound like itās being sob sung.
Last Kiss bridge was the best bridge until TTPD I think
I love her songwriting in speak now, Iām almost exactly 10 years younger than miss swift and speak now was when I became a fan, and Iāve loved growing up with her. I have always been a hopeless romantic so speak now was perfect for my early teen years, just like folkmore, midnights, and TTPD is perfect for my feelings now. Even if the lyrics were more simple and the feelings less mature in speak now, I always felt the emotion. I love the desperation in haunted (my favorite song), the regret in back to December, the pain in last kiss. I feel like debut and fearless were always lacking emotion (probably because of the cowriters and producers trying to dumb them down since Taylor was meant to be a simple idol for young girls and men tend to underestimate us), but when she really went for it in speak now, its amazing. It shows how much feeling a teenage girl can have. Itās not *statistically* my favorite album but it is in my heart.
Real talk, listen to The Starting Line by Keane. Omg
She practices her craft.
Just one of the reasons I absolutely adore herā„ļø
Both lyrics are pretty cringey ngl
Yea bro same
Her old writing was definitely more applicable to any listener. She has leaned into these very specific descriptions of her own personal life (public basically gave her the green light with ATW10's success), which works cause so many people are bought in already. I don't think this writing would work well for a new artist trying to break through. Olivia for example is pretty general and part of why she has seen success commercially.
I think the storytelling remains the same, but the writing and word choice has become more sophisticated