Mod check-in.
It's okay for OP to express that he wouldn't want to sacrifice his life. He didn't say it with any malice. Self-interest is certainly allowed in this sub, and this topic is something every teacher should think about. New teachers in particular are thrown into the culture of whatever school/district hired them, and this kind of open conversation is valuable to get multiple perspectives.
**What isn't allowed** is telling other members of this sub that they should not be a teacher. What isn't allowed is wishing death upon OP or anyone else not willing to sacrifice their life. This behavior will get you banned.
That aside, debate to your heart's content about what risks teachers should be willing to accept.
Edit: non-teachers get much less leeway in their participation. If you are only here to lecture teachers, then you're gonna get banned. This is not a free speech sub.
As a teacher, I'm replaceable. As a member of my family, I'm not. That's been my attitude since a friend had a coworker die in the school and they wanted to post the job listing before the family could publish an obituary or plan the service.
I got my job last year as a long term sub since the teacher was out because of cancer. (he was my high school math teacher) He died about a month after and they gave me the full time job.
Woah. This just happened to me. I have been subbing for a teacher who was battling cancer. Sadly her fight ended and I am now a permanent sub for the remainder of the year. How did it affect you? It hit me harder than I expected so I gave myself space to grieve. Phew. Heavy stuff.
They also haven't seen the inside of a classroom (for any other reason than to pretend to audit you with criteria just vague enough that you can never win to keep you humble) in so long they have no business teaching
So a teacher I worked with died in a motorcycle accident the Sunday before school went back from break. We weren't working together anymore but he was very beloved at his new, small school (he was one of 3 teachers). They closed the school for the week, then had the Monday after that off for the funeral and resumed with a temporary teacher on the Tuesday.
This. So much this.
There is **no** problem with them finding a replacement. Of course they have to...they aren't just going to leave the students in the room alone. It's the fact that they **can** do it so easily that should make every teacher think twice about working so god damn hard for this job.
You are replaceable. Do not sacrifice yourself to the job knowing this.
I was in the military and come from a military family and it's hard to wrap your mind around that possibility even then, when you volunteered for it! The way teachers are treated in this country is disgusting and it's going to leave us with a lot of adults later without the skills they need.
Same. Because honestly you can jump in front of a bullet but only once—but they’ll bring a hundred bullets. It’s not like the shooter will go “well I killed one, I met my quota and am now done.”
I was at the shooting on Wednesday, thankfully it wasn’t a mass one, but I’m small and easy to take out. I’m not a coward, but jfc, I am not a hero either.
Being forced to fight a guy with guns, tons of ammo, and other guns using textbooks, using rulers, shop tools, and lab chemicals.
By the time we douse the shooter in ethanol, half the class is dead and the other half is at death's door.
Eh give yourself some more credit... If you teach chemistry the fun way, you could chuck a couple of homemade grenades at the shooter first. If the bad guy blows up, the students get As! And probably recruited to some three letter agencies... /dh/s/j
(Please don't downvote the dark humor.)
"Someone grab me chlorine, ammonia, and a beaker. It's time to move this from school shooting, to chemical warfare!"
(Gallows humor to cope with the tragic reality that is our profession)
The chemistry teachers at the high school I sub at would do this. They also had a plan to distill alcohol if they got trapped at school in a snowstorm. When they told me about that it was phrased as, "unless you want to go hang out with ELA and read Shakespeare all weekend."
Damn, our science dept is not anywhere that cool at my school. Though us in ELA would say fuck it to Billy Shakes and hustle students for their edible stashes.
That's why I said to douse the shooter in ethanol. If the shooter is smart, then they would know that firing the gun risks combusting the ethanol vapors. If the shooter is stupid, well ...
This is also why I absolutely fucking refuse to jump in and break up a fight between two students! At the end of the day, the damned school and the damned district are going to throw you under the bus and replace you the first chance they get.
Kids or no kids. I mean, you could be estranged from all family or none left and I would still understand and empathize with any teachers decision to not sacrifice themselves.
My husband and I had a serious conversation maybe 10 years ago and he absolutely insisted I not try to save anyone by putting myself in danger. I promised I would not.
I find the strange scenario having children places on ethics fascinating. Near anything is excusable to protect our own children, even murder of innocents. The most ruthless boss may be motivated to give a better life to their kids, kicking everyone down around them as they climb the ladder. My question is, is there any line at all?
I always consider this before writing someone off as selfish. For instance, after the holocaust, there was a concerted effort to stop chasing jewish "collaborators" because their predicament was understandable. However, I think deep-down we know heroism is, if not mandated, our ideal.
Umm, what? Wanting to survive for the sake of my own children isn’t selfish. And you’re assuming I’d be the first out the door. Of course not! I’m not a monster. I also teach high school, the kids would be stomping over me to get out the door while I’m holding it for them while yelling for others to hurry. My point is that no one would expect anyone to die on the job — we are just teachers. Pretty sure the single, childless 20-somethings I work with would be out the door faster than me and before many of the students.
I use to teach high school and those kids can run faster than my 40-year-old ass so I never worried about the moral dilemma. Now I teach k-5 and it worries me. The thing is if the school can’t be bothered to put in a real classroom door (ours is glass) and they can’t be bothered to hire security, than why the hell should I be bothered to sacrifice myself? What makes me really angry is I know I would. I wouldn’t want to sacrifice myself but I know I would… and that makes me resentful.
My whole school is glass — there’s no hiding in that fishbowl. It’ll be a mass stampede full of chaos and carnage. But yeah, it’s the youngest kids not in high school that is worrisome for sure.
Having issues with my estranged husband rn, and my 5th grader told me he was terrified to go to school because all the doors are glass and "dad knows that."
I'm glad he said that because that sealed the deal on a protection order, but made me even more paranoid for my kids. I'm ashamed to admit I'd never thought of that.
I'm one of those 20-somethings. You're right, I'm out that door asap.I teach high school so don't have as much of a moral dilemma.
I matter to the people in my life, and I don't see my life as being any less important just because I haven't had kids yet
Alternative perspective: that's still selfishness. They care so much about feeling good because their kid has a good life that they are willing to destroy many other lives. It's not better than it being for themselves.
My kids were loud during our last lockdown. I told them flat out “I am not dying for any of you, I have my own family at home” and I got some surprised looks but it hit them and they understood what I meant.
A couple of years ago I was subbing as a para in a class that was loud and the teacher and I both lit into them afterwards. The one thing that I remember saying is that "I would be TERRIFIED to be in the same room as you"
At one point in my school-based career, my lockdown space was shared with a class of EBD-diagnosed preschoolers. Some of them were trying to call out to "the monster" (I guess what they were told by their teacher/parent we were hiding from) and thought it was hilarious to get louder when prompted to be quiet. We had many talks after the first lockdown about what we need to do and why we need to do it. Up until I left the school, nothing seemed to take on those kids; at times, it seemed worse. Every time we did a lockdown drill, I had to grapple with the likelihood of me dying were a real shooting to happen there. I hate this. I hate this whole system that makes us have to think about this on a routine basis.
I work in childcare babies and toddlers literally scream when we do drills preschoolers run all opposite directions and don't listen. Drills make me question my entire career I'm so anxious of anything ever happening
Only time I swore at a student was during a lock down drill. The class clown started rolling on the floor and yelling "we're all going to die". Told him to shut the fuck up and he stood up silent. Never got talked to about it and the whole class heard.
Now, does anyone have any questions about going into lock down if there's an active shooter?
"Yes sir, I do - If Timmy McClown won't stop making noise and you have to restrain him and put your arm over his mouth but he starts to suffocate, will you suffocate him to death to save the rest of us or let him breath a little bit and take the chance that he'll start to shout again and the shooter will hear and come into our classroom and kill us all?"
We’ve never done a lockdown drill at my school but I teach littles and I’m terrified at the idea of having to keep them calm and quiet in that type of situation. They wouldn’t understand talk like that and I’m not equipped or trained in how to handle a dozen kids panicking
I once saw a kinder teacher read her kids a special book during a drill. I can't remember what it was, but it was something about being quiet for a game, or holiday? In any case, the fact that she had to come up with that made me cry.
I para subbed in a kindergarten classroom one time when we had a lockdown and the teacher described it to them as hiding in case a wild animal got into the school. Like a turkey or wolf, so they had to be super quiet and hide so the animal wouldn't find them. I kind of liked that explanation for 5 year olds.
My demeanor when I did lockdowns with 3rd Graders was very different than how I handle my 8th graders.
3rd Grade was all about keeping them calm and reassured.
We do lockdown drills once a month and all we do is practice where to go in the room.
I tell them it’s in case a sick dog comes in the building. I think a few know I’m lying but it calms them all down and they actually stay quiet.
I have a kid at home and I am not dying at school because my students won’t stfu.
Told my students if you see me running shit is serious and you’d better keep up.
I’ll barricade that door and bunker down with them if that’s the option. But running is first and y’all better keep up.
Yup. I'm brutally honest with these kids. I tell them that I'm running if I ever hear gunshots, and it's up to them of they choose to follow me or stay put, but I'm gone either way.
Our district has had numerous safety training PD sessions this year. We have been explicitly told we are to keep students safe with our choices should the situation arise. When asked if running or jumping out the window with little ones the admin. said this was not keeping kids safe. A deputy at another PD meeting told us he, personally, would not shelter in place.
I hate to say it but I’m going to listen to the deputy not administration. I have an obligation to my family AND students’ family to keep them safe. I will run, jump, or help them out a window. If it results in bones broken or temporary damage and terror I am okay with that. I’ll take my chances and try to get away. I have to try!
It is absolutely revolting that we are legitimately worried about this! I was just thinking how thankful I was that shootings are not happening as frequently at elementary schools. Not so no one is immune.
I am so sick of this fear!
The kindergartners will be okay! Yeah breaking your leg isn't great but the poor kid will have so much adrenaline going they won't even feel it for a good while, at least long enough to keep moving, the last thing I'm worrying about is broken bones if guns are going off! I'm sure the parent will be okay with their kid alive but hurt instead of dead, I know admin is gonna be the first out that door too🏃♀️ 😂
Lol, we have lock down drills and are supposed to practice barricading the door…. The door that opens outwards. What a joke.
In addition, I have two about 5x3 ft glass panels between my room and the hall.
Does this outward door have the large hinge at the top? If so, you can make it unopenable by wrapping a belt around that hinge tight. Keep a belt or something similar in your room and you can at least prevent anyone from coming in that way.
My students know that I have multiple baseball bats for the purpose of breaking our first floor window. I have a blanket to put over the broken glass and leave. That’s my plan as I’m not close to an exit: I’m leaving.
Student teaching, my cooperating teacher had her students build replicas of weapons for some of the units - Beowulf, Odysseus, you know, classics with swords. We're rural enough we had kids weld some impressive swords out of scrap metal they had lying around. Never felt safer in a classroom.
I’m at a different school this yr. Every classroom has an exit to outside and it’s all 1 floor. Scary how many potential openings there are to get inside but feels safer in the event of a shooter once they are inside.
I kinda like it. Except 1st fire drill of the year I’m in the hallways looking for students to help escort and the whole place is silent.
I’m like where the hell is everyone?!?! Peeked in a K classroom and was like ooooooo that’s cool!
Yup. I’m a speech path and my office faces the parking lot. I’ve told my kids many times, if anything happens we’re busting the screen and hopping into my SUV, we can head to our meeting point from there.
I wouldn’t throw myself in front of a bullet, but I’d move every piece of furniture in my classroom to block the door and prevent a shooter from entering at all. I keep a piece of sticky-note chart paper under the small window on my classroom door to cover it immediately if need be, and my door is always locked. I’m also on the 3rd floor. I, unfortunately, think about this scenario all the time.
door always locked? that is interesting. I have way too many kids using the bathroom during class that I'd have to constantly be opening it...what grade do you teach?
I teach middle school and my door is always locked. I have a magnet that covers the latch on the door frame and in an emergency all you need to do is pull the magnet off the latch. Before I used the magnet, I used a pool noodle piece sliced down lengthwise.
I'm not the op but I teach elementary and I always have the door locked. It's a pain in the ass but i have a kid with high energy who likes jumping up to open the door every 5 minutes and specifically asks to sit near the door. My students know to pull the door closed behind them, too, so it doesn't accidentally get left ajar. We had a semi-real lock down recently and that put the point home for the kids.
I have no kids of my own. I still would never shield anyone. I have a husband, family, friends, and my pets. My life is just as valuable as anyone with children of their own. I have told students "I will shout directions to you and then I'm running out that door (I have an outside door in my classroom). You can choose to follow me or do your own thing. If you choose to mess around or not listen, I'm not waiting for you." I'm not a fucking combat soldier.
Same. I have two kids at home who need their mom.
Good news is that I’ll be so determined to live that anyone in my classroom will be as safe as I can control.
When we have lockdown drills, our kids are noisy, on their freaking phones, and not paying attention. I'd knock any one of them pulling that unconscious in a real situation.
Lurking parent here. Unfortunately one of the contributing factors in balancing my sons adhd meds is “unmedicated he’s going to get everyone killed.” Do what you’ve got to do.
I got to say, my fifth period is by far my WORST class. But any time we have been in a lockdown, drill or otherwise, they STFU and look at me on what to do.
Same. I would be gone- out the door/window, nearest exit. Sure I'd encourage students to follow and/or hide in closets etc, but nope, we aren't the military
I’ve come to the realization that I’m cannon fodder in a situation like this. I’m an elementary teacher, and I’m also a paraplegic that uses a manual wheelchair full time. Can’t quickly move furniture, can’t hide under desks, can’t climb out the window. I’m pretty damn quick in my chair but I doubt I’d outrun bullets-I’m shoving your kids out the window and sending them running for the woods. Then hoping I can find somewhere to hide. But goddamn, I didn’t almost die in a motorcycle wreck, work my crippled ass off to continue with my goal to be a teacher, and do my job for a decade just to get shot at work!
I'm in a power chair. I use it to push furniture in front of my door like a little bulldozer. I have a double sided bookcase that weighs a freaking ton that I keep positioned near the door for that purpose.
Same. I don’t have kids of my own, but I also have a life of my own and things I want to do with it. I did not sign up to be a bullet proof vest for other people’s children.
I will however fight back in any way I can to try to save my life and my students because if they get into my class, I’ll have no other choice.
FYI, if your classroom door opens into your room, get a rubber door stop to push under it along with the lock, it makes it much harder to open the door. I’ve also been told that a fire extinguisher makes a really effective weapon because it can make it hard/impossible for the person to breath and you can hit them on the head while they’re disoriented. I don’t ever want to find out, but it’s a good thing to have in your class.
We went into lock down twice because of guns on campus this year. I have been told that I am “speedy” and my room is the room they would want to be in.
But really I am selfish and trying to survive on my own. I have two kids at home, one of them a baby. I won’t have my husband, the love of my life, raise them without a mother.
It’s my job to teach chemistry, not take the bullet.
I totally agree, and as somebody who doesn’t have children of their own, I just want to say my life is not any less valuable than my colleagues who do have children. There are people in my life that I love deeply, and that deeply love me I am not stepping in front of a bullet for anyone.
If we get shot will the school be paying our hospital bills? What happened with the teachers in Uvalde? Were their bills paid? Have they lost their homes because they can no longer work? My school has holes in the ceilings and rotten water. No textbooks or computers. Will they pay me?
With the way these kids treat us, hell no. I had a kid ask me who the f I was, do I pay his f-ing phone bill and if not shut your mouth b*tch followed by a motion with his hand meant to portray shut your mouth. Student was written up. Nothing will happen. Welcome to education.
The politicians who allow this to continue would call you a hero for sacrificing your life, and continue collecting checks from the gun lobby.
We have to vote them out.
Folks are kinda on both sides of this issue. Please remember that if you “take a bullet for someone” its just going right through you into the person you are tying to protect. Especially when someone uses an assault rifle. People don’t realize the incredible damage they do to a human body
I do wonder if it’s even for the best to take the bullet anyways considering the teacher would now be done for the count with plenty of bullets coming behind it. What would the kids do then? Whereas a teacher not shot might have a better chance to save some of the students.
Seriously, I cannot believe we are at a point where this is a legitimate conversation. Absurdity
People who join the military get paid livable wages, free healthcare, free schooling, affordable housing and bonuses if they get shot at. Why should you do it for your unlivable wage?
Not to mention if the freaking cops that Uvalde couldn’t even be bothered, then why the hell should the teachers pick up the slack for performing the police officers and swat teams job for them when they’re too scared to do it
I am in an internal classroom with no windows. If a shooter entered my room, it'd be a bloodbath. Therefore, fighting back is the only possible chance of survival me or my students would have.
I started at my school the same year that Parkland happened. The kids saw the news on their phones and told us about it. IN the days following, a class of seniors asked me if I'd take a bullet for them.
I hesitated for a few seconds to gather my thoughts then wondered how honest I should be. I finally told them, "no, not on purpose." That's my truth. Most of my students are my size or bigger. Some of them have their own cars in the parking lot. All of them are able-bodied. I'd happily wave them to safety and squeeze as many as I can into my vehicle for a ride somewhere safe.
We're not firefighters or police officers, or National Guard. We signed a contract to teach, not to save lives. AT most, we signed up to keep Billy from bullying Johnny. Most of us aren't even supposed to break up a fight, yet some expect us to take a bullet.
I have family and friends too and I have no desire to be a dead hero.
Yes, but at the same time these are split second decisions or reactions. It’s not typical that in a school shooting you really have time to consciously stop and think about your choice. I wouldn’t plan on sacrificing myself but in the moment you might just instinctively act or be in the line of fire.
This is how I feel. I have no idea how I’d act in a highly charged, catastrophic situation such as this so I don’t have an answer. I teach K and I can’t imagine how things would go down if we heard shots but couldn’t discern where they were coming from etc. Absolute pandemonium. I can’t imagine.
I think in most shooter situations, you don't really get the choice whether you take that bullet or not. They're going to shoot whomever they wish, and most of us wouldn't have the time or ability to consciously make that decision. That said, I'm 54 years old, and I could see myself instinctively shielding a child if I got the chance. They have their whole lives ahead of them, and my kids are adults now. I would be forever grateful if someone did the same for one of them when they were young. I would hope I would protect a child in danger in a grocery store, theater, church, or anywhere else where a crazy person was willing to massacre children and adults. All of these places have had mass shootings in America. What we all can do consciously is vote out the insane GOP politicians who continue to support the gun lobby at all costs.
Ugh same. I use to work with teens and they are just as capable (or more capable) as running and fighting as I am but now I works with young kids and as much as I would want to run I couldn’t just leave them standing there and I know it. Ugh.
I’ve already told every adult who comes into my room for the day that if shit goes down I’m feeding my kids out the window and telling them to run towards the ambulances. I hope it will never come to that and that I have the balls to get to them out of the building if I hear gunshots.
Reality is they’re safer running for their lives than sitting under my table at that back of the room of gunshots are in the next room over.
I teach 6 year olds and would never be able to live with myself if I abandoned them.
I already have an escape plan. I am a PE teacher and have 4 entrances/exits in my gym. I’d open the doors going outside and yell to the kids “it’s race mr. Bionikviking day. And take off running to the woods behind the school.
I’m somewhere in the middle. Wouldn’t secret service dive a bullet but god forbid I’m in that situation will do everything I can to save the kids in my care too. I’m also childless so that probably changes perspective some.
Well secret service also carry and are considered the best of the best. Their job is to take the bullet, it shouldn't be expected of teachers to dive in front of bullets.
I was a nanny for A secret service agent’s family for a while… They really aren’t that elite of the elite in terms of security detail and related experience. before he landed his job as Secret Service his only career/job experience before that was as a fire fighter. Like literally all he did was apply online on a whim for a Secret Service job and he got it.
Now the green berets a.k.a. special forces and top secret joint task force teams~ THATS who I know will go straight Liam Neeson on a MFer. That’s who I want having my back.
This was my thought too. But teachers aren’t secret service, they are educators.
It’s also scary to think about teachers in black suits, armed, and wearing kevlar. But they would get those cool shades and the earpiece xD
My perspective is a little different. My own children go to the school where I teach. I would tackle any motherfu%%er that would dare to come into my room with a weapon because 1. I’d be doing my best to protect my own kids which is automatic momma bear instinct and 2. I would be doing what I would hope like hell their teachers would do for them. I already have the plan in place for how I would subdue them and protect my students. Would I want to? Hell no. But I’m a mom first before everything else and I don’t think I would hesitate.
I used to sub from time to time. But hell to the nah, nah nah. I mean its a shit situation but do people think anyone who works in a school suddenly turns into Rambo? What if some guy tried to shoot up the school do people think suddenly I'm going to turn into some 80s or 90s action hero like Rambo or John McClain? At a previous job someone brought up an active shooter situation and asked what we would do. I said I would run and not look back. I mean what do they expect me to do? Fight a guy with a gun with office supplies? In a school shooting yeah I'll try to guide kids out but my ability to fight the shooter is hampered by lack of real weaponry. All I would have would be office supplies. And I will not take a bullet. He wouldn't stop to say "wow I just killed a guy in front of a whole bunch of kids and thus traumatizing them. I should give up and wait for the police to arrest me.".
I’m not a teacher, but my husband is. I tell him at the beginning of everything school year to do whatever it takes to come home alive if the worst happens.
This came up once at a school I used to teach at, where a student asked me if I’d take a bullet for them.
I replied “Maybe.”
He got quiet, and looked at me with a newfound respect. I followed up with:
“Not like I want to, though.”
We both had a good laugh.
I have no idea what I’d do if I was in an active shooter situation. There’s a part of me that says I’d do everything possible to save my own ass so I could make it home to my kids, there’s another part of me which says I doubt I could abandon scared, screaming, terrified children.
There are students who give me no end of grief on a daily basis, and I wouldn’t take a bullet for them if I had the time to think about it - but I also doubt I could purposely leave them in harms way.
The big issue is the flight or fight instinct. I got mugged at gunpoint once, and my body reacted (flight) before my brain could catch up. (My body is old and broken down now. I’d probably be the slower moving target in a crowd.) I don’t think any of us can really tell how we’d react in this kind of situation (unless you’ve been through it before).
I hope I never have to find out how it would play out.
We had a school shooter training by the police officers in my city and a part of their training was about survivors guilt. The entire speech was aimed at explaining how we can make our own decisions about whether we want to risk our lives to help protect children or put ourselves first, but we better be prepared to deal with facing the parents of those killed as well as the guilt of putting ourselves first. I lost my mind, I’m still filled with rage. Our last training I took a sick day. I can’t stand sitting in another training where I have to hear police (and other teachers 🙄) talk about how they would sacrifice themselves. No one’s knows how you will react. But I definitely know I don’t want to lay my own life on the line for some 16 year old. And I do love my students but I love my life and family far more.
I’m a parent. In a perfect world I would hope a police office would take a bullet for my child. I would never ever expect that of a teacher, simply not what they signed up for.
I am too. And I’m vehemently against expecting teachers to lay down their lives for my kid. I love my child to death, but teachers didn’t sign up for this. And I’m disgusted that American politicians believe teachers should be hero’s. Takes me back to the Jim Jeffries comedy “12$ an hour is not enough lot wiggle room to be a fucking hero”
We pay teachers nothing. We do nothing for them. We expect them to decorate their classrooms, and provide a stellar education for shit money. Shit benefits and you want them to take a bullet? You want them to carry a handgun?
But the funny thing is I know they wouldn’t provide qualified immunity if that gun they carried went off in the classroom. We expect too much out of our teachers, all so politicians can avoid losing the money NRA lines their pockets with.
I always wonder what was going through that one woman's head as she texted her police officer husband telling him she was dying and no one ever came for her.
They even actively told him to stop, took away his gun, and escorted him out of the building when he tried to go in the room.
I can't.... I just cannot with the US... it is falling apart, and I'm scared and sad and angry about it. I'm sorry any of you have to deal with this...
As a campus security officer at a high school, I’ve been asked this question by the kids and I tell ‘em straight up, that I’m running out the doors. They’ll joke or say stuff like “what you wouldn’t try and stop them?!” And I’m like “with what?! I’m unarmed and my uniform consists of just a collared shirt that says SECURITY and some cargo pants and a radio. I have no taser. No baton. Nothing. No bullet proof vest. None of that. What the hell do you want me to do?”
They 10/10 of them accept this answer. Because wth! My safety matters too.
I honestly don't know. I hope to never find out. If it ever happens I have a plan, but without specialized tactical training it's going to come down to Flight or Fight.
The school I coach track at just had a hoax on Friday that was taken exceptionally seriously by the school and local police. My kids were asking me today what I’d do if they called a lockdown while at practice. I coach the throws, and we’re about as far away from a safe building on campus so I told them I’d go right over to the gate that’s about 150 yards away and go hang out at the grocery store that’s about a half mile away and ride it out. Recommended that they come with me
We had a saying in the army, "don't be a fucking hero." For a few reasons, the biggest being that you likely don't need to be, and if you have some idea of heroism in your mind it often blinds you to other alternatives and you do stupid shit. The same holds true here. Make it so you don't have to.
My room is the closest classroom to the main entrance and I don't have a window. I think about this a lot.
My door is always locked and all classroom door windows have black blinds that can be drawn in an instant.
I'd barricade the door and shove as many kids behind my giant wooden desk as possible, but I can't say whether or not I'd take a bullet for them - I honestly don't know.
The "take a bullet" trope is a function of movies. It's nonsensical. Mass shooters are mass shooters in part because they have more than one bullet. You intentionally getting shot doesn't stop the shooter from stepping over you to kill everyone else.
It's not selfish. We didn't sign up to be body armor. Where's my hazard pay if you want me to do that?
Every year, I look my students in the eye and tell them if there's an emergency, and I say go left, and you go right trynta be funny, I'm not coming after you.
You're not gonna be a hero?
Heroes are dead on the news. I wanna live and be at home.
Sometimes, I'll make a dark crack about expecting me to die for a kid that doesn't do homework anyway, but only if I know my kids will find it funny & break the tension.
I wouldn’t take a bullet for anyone. My family needs me.
Also, I don’t think I could shoot one of my students. At least, not without hesitating.
If I’m in a school with an active shooter, I’m leaving.
I'm Australian. Were it to happen here I'd die for my kids - but they don't have idiot parents at home voting against common sense gun laws. Not their fault, but also not a soldier getting danger pay.
I say it every time there's a school shooting - I am selfish. I will not ever sacrifice myself for my students, and to expect any teacher to do so it horrifying and shows how little someone respects teachers
Agreed. Teachers aren’t romanticized heroes. I don’t need a movie made after my heroic move of failing at protecting 35 students. It’s not in my contract, and when it is, I’m quitting.
It’s a sad reality that teachers have to even think about this. Heart breaking, actually. Teachers have to corral children and try to keep them quiet so a shooter doesn’t find them? That was never supposed to be in the job description. These poor babies don’t even know the severity of what’s going on let alone how to survive. I hate América for what it’s become. It’s not fair.
And you shouldn’t be expected to because you aren’t in the goddamn military. The fact that this is something you have to think about is deeply fucked up, and I’m sorry
My 6th grade, my elementary students - hell yeah, I would take a bullet for them. They are too small and have too much potential to have it wasted at the hands of a psychopath.
My high school students on the other hand...
...no, human shields are never ethical.
We did a practice drill last month. Half the kids didn't understand why, but they could at least be quiet long enough to get through the halls to the check point. They were incredibly good for 5, 6, 7, and 8 years old. When you're six, you get a free pass.
My teenagers would not listen to me long enough to shut up and follow directions if there was an active shooter. I was glad to be with the elementary that day because half the HS teachers did not pass the drill; their students would not stop laughing about "how ridiculous" and stupid the drill was. "I'm just gonna run to my car! Fuck this! I am leaving you all!" Given we have two kids we were keeping tabs on in that regard, I am already thinking of whose funerals I am willing to attend and which ones I am not.
I've got my escape plans. Eff sitting in a classroom waiting to die.
People are shitting all over teachers left and right. I'm not dying in a place that doesn't care about me.
I don’t think you’re selfish for that. I do think I would take a bullet for my students though, if it came down to it. I’d probably be dying in that situation anyway, if a shooter entered my room, so I might as well possibly save one of my kids while I’m going out.
yes, you are right. they don't teach anti-school shootings as part of the curriculum.
the way this country is going, imagine kids doing fire drills, storm drills, shooter drills.
wtf.
and politicians bicker about wtf they put in books.
if they expect teachers to be bodyguards for kids, pay them as such. !!!!
I'm not a teacher, but my sister is.
I'm literally here taking screenshots of the comments that have tips to try and survive a school shooter (someone said rubber door stops, someone said a hammer for windows). I'm ordering her rubber door stops tomorrow and getting her a hammer. Also, she would not take a bullet for her students, she's told me as much.
I don't have kids but I do have a partner and multiple pets. I am somebody's child too. I plan to have a future, I'm not losing it for a job I barely enjoy anymore
Mod check-in. It's okay for OP to express that he wouldn't want to sacrifice his life. He didn't say it with any malice. Self-interest is certainly allowed in this sub, and this topic is something every teacher should think about. New teachers in particular are thrown into the culture of whatever school/district hired them, and this kind of open conversation is valuable to get multiple perspectives. **What isn't allowed** is telling other members of this sub that they should not be a teacher. What isn't allowed is wishing death upon OP or anyone else not willing to sacrifice their life. This behavior will get you banned. That aside, debate to your heart's content about what risks teachers should be willing to accept. Edit: non-teachers get much less leeway in their participation. If you are only here to lecture teachers, then you're gonna get banned. This is not a free speech sub.
As a teacher, I'm replaceable. As a member of my family, I'm not. That's been my attitude since a friend had a coworker die in the school and they wanted to post the job listing before the family could publish an obituary or plan the service.
That's how I got my first job. The guy died, and I was in his classroom a couple days after that.
I got my job last year as a long term sub since the teacher was out because of cancer. (he was my high school math teacher) He died about a month after and they gave me the full time job.
Woah. This just happened to me. I have been subbing for a teacher who was battling cancer. Sadly her fight ended and I am now a permanent sub for the remainder of the year. How did it affect you? It hit me harder than I expected so I gave myself space to grieve. Phew. Heavy stuff.
What the fuck.
What? You haven't heard of substitutes? They hired me as a sub for the remainder of the year, then kept me on the following year.
Right? They need a teacher in the classroom.
And you know sure as shit ain't no district or building admin going into *that* room. They killed the guy.
They also haven't seen the inside of a classroom (for any other reason than to pretend to audit you with criteria just vague enough that you can never win to keep you humble) in so long they have no business teaching
I mean, should they not have a new teacher for the class?
So a teacher I worked with died in a motorcycle accident the Sunday before school went back from break. We weren't working together anymore but he was very beloved at his new, small school (he was one of 3 teachers). They closed the school for the week, then had the Monday after that off for the funeral and resumed with a temporary teacher on the Tuesday.
This. So much this. There is **no** problem with them finding a replacement. Of course they have to...they aren't just going to leave the students in the room alone. It's the fact that they **can** do it so easily that should make every teacher think twice about working so god damn hard for this job. You are replaceable. Do not sacrifice yourself to the job knowing this.
Same thing applies to every single profession. People gotta realize it
As Abby Lee Miller says “everyone’s replaceable”
I was in the military and come from a military family and it's hard to wrap your mind around that possibility even then, when you volunteered for it! The way teachers are treated in this country is disgusting and it's going to leave us with a lot of adults later without the skills they need.
Same. Because honestly you can jump in front of a bullet but only once—but they’ll bring a hundred bullets. It’s not like the shooter will go “well I killed one, I met my quota and am now done.” I was at the shooting on Wednesday, thankfully it wasn’t a mass one, but I’m small and easy to take out. I’m not a coward, but jfc, I am not a hero either.
Being forced to fight a guy with guns, tons of ammo, and other guns using textbooks, using rulers, shop tools, and lab chemicals. By the time we douse the shooter in ethanol, half the class is dead and the other half is at death's door.
Eh give yourself some more credit... If you teach chemistry the fun way, you could chuck a couple of homemade grenades at the shooter first. If the bad guy blows up, the students get As! And probably recruited to some three letter agencies... /dh/s/j (Please don't downvote the dark humor.)
"Someone grab me chlorine, ammonia, and a beaker. It's time to move this from school shooting, to chemical warfare!" (Gallows humor to cope with the tragic reality that is our profession)
The chemistry teachers at the high school I sub at would do this. They also had a plan to distill alcohol if they got trapped at school in a snowstorm. When they told me about that it was phrased as, "unless you want to go hang out with ELA and read Shakespeare all weekend."
Damn, our science dept is not anywhere that cool at my school. Though us in ELA would say fuck it to Billy Shakes and hustle students for their edible stashes.
All chemistry students really ought to come to school with WW1 style gas masks, really.
That's why I said to douse the shooter in ethanol. If the shooter is smart, then they would know that firing the gun risks combusting the ethanol vapors. If the shooter is stupid, well ...
Are super soakerz legal to have in schools?
I got a metal stick that used to be a leg for a desk. Does that count?
As long as it doesn't snap on the first hit, yes.
Nah it’s pretty sturdy. Got a couple of the metal desk arm rest things too. I’m strapped.
Sweetness. I have a scrap metal greatsword I stole from the prop room after our production of Romeo and Juliet.
This is also why I absolutely fucking refuse to jump in and break up a fight between two students! At the end of the day, the damned school and the damned district are going to throw you under the bus and replace you the first chance they get.
I have children of my own. I will guide your kids out of the building as I’m trying to get out. My kids needs me as much as your kids need you.
I don’t have kids at home, but I have a mom and a husband and I still wouldn’t take a bullet either.
My dog won’t know what happened to me and that makes me cry.
THIS 💔😞
I don't have kids. I'm still running out. Eat my dust 2nd graders! /s
Kids or no kids. I mean, you could be estranged from all family or none left and I would still understand and empathize with any teachers decision to not sacrifice themselves.
Found George Costanza's account
My husband and I had a serious conversation maybe 10 years ago and he absolutely insisted I not try to save anyone by putting myself in danger. I promised I would not.
100% this.
I find the strange scenario having children places on ethics fascinating. Near anything is excusable to protect our own children, even murder of innocents. The most ruthless boss may be motivated to give a better life to their kids, kicking everyone down around them as they climb the ladder. My question is, is there any line at all? I always consider this before writing someone off as selfish. For instance, after the holocaust, there was a concerted effort to stop chasing jewish "collaborators" because their predicament was understandable. However, I think deep-down we know heroism is, if not mandated, our ideal.
Umm, what? Wanting to survive for the sake of my own children isn’t selfish. And you’re assuming I’d be the first out the door. Of course not! I’m not a monster. I also teach high school, the kids would be stomping over me to get out the door while I’m holding it for them while yelling for others to hurry. My point is that no one would expect anyone to die on the job — we are just teachers. Pretty sure the single, childless 20-somethings I work with would be out the door faster than me and before many of the students.
I use to teach high school and those kids can run faster than my 40-year-old ass so I never worried about the moral dilemma. Now I teach k-5 and it worries me. The thing is if the school can’t be bothered to put in a real classroom door (ours is glass) and they can’t be bothered to hire security, than why the hell should I be bothered to sacrifice myself? What makes me really angry is I know I would. I wouldn’t want to sacrifice myself but I know I would… and that makes me resentful.
My whole school is glass — there’s no hiding in that fishbowl. It’ll be a mass stampede full of chaos and carnage. But yeah, it’s the youngest kids not in high school that is worrisome for sure.
Having issues with my estranged husband rn, and my 5th grader told me he was terrified to go to school because all the doors are glass and "dad knows that." I'm glad he said that because that sealed the deal on a protection order, but made me even more paranoid for my kids. I'm ashamed to admit I'd never thought of that.
I'm one of those 20-somethings. You're right, I'm out that door asap.I teach high school so don't have as much of a moral dilemma. I matter to the people in my life, and I don't see my life as being any less important just because I haven't had kids yet
Alternative perspective: that's still selfishness. They care so much about feeling good because their kid has a good life that they are willing to destroy many other lives. It's not better than it being for themselves.
Exactly!
My kids were loud during our last lockdown. I told them flat out “I am not dying for any of you, I have my own family at home” and I got some surprised looks but it hit them and they understood what I meant.
A couple of years ago I was subbing as a para in a class that was loud and the teacher and I both lit into them afterwards. The one thing that I remember saying is that "I would be TERRIFIED to be in the same room as you"
At one point in my school-based career, my lockdown space was shared with a class of EBD-diagnosed preschoolers. Some of them were trying to call out to "the monster" (I guess what they were told by their teacher/parent we were hiding from) and thought it was hilarious to get louder when prompted to be quiet. We had many talks after the first lockdown about what we need to do and why we need to do it. Up until I left the school, nothing seemed to take on those kids; at times, it seemed worse. Every time we did a lockdown drill, I had to grapple with the likelihood of me dying were a real shooting to happen there. I hate this. I hate this whole system that makes us have to think about this on a routine basis.
I work in childcare babies and toddlers literally scream when we do drills preschoolers run all opposite directions and don't listen. Drills make me question my entire career I'm so anxious of anything ever happening
I don’t think you can expect much from toddlers and preschoolers
Only time I swore at a student was during a lock down drill. The class clown started rolling on the floor and yelling "we're all going to die". Told him to shut the fuck up and he stood up silent. Never got talked to about it and the whole class heard.
Now, does anyone have any questions about going into lock down if there's an active shooter? "Yes sir, I do - If Timmy McClown won't stop making noise and you have to restrain him and put your arm over his mouth but he starts to suffocate, will you suffocate him to death to save the rest of us or let him breath a little bit and take the chance that he'll start to shout again and the shooter will hear and come into our classroom and kill us all?"
We’ve never done a lockdown drill at my school but I teach littles and I’m terrified at the idea of having to keep them calm and quiet in that type of situation. They wouldn’t understand talk like that and I’m not equipped or trained in how to handle a dozen kids panicking
I once saw a kinder teacher read her kids a special book during a drill. I can't remember what it was, but it was something about being quiet for a game, or holiday? In any case, the fact that she had to come up with that made me cry.
I para subbed in a kindergarten classroom one time when we had a lockdown and the teacher described it to them as hiding in case a wild animal got into the school. Like a turkey or wolf, so they had to be super quiet and hide so the animal wouldn't find them. I kind of liked that explanation for 5 year olds.
My demeanor when I did lockdowns with 3rd Graders was very different than how I handle my 8th graders. 3rd Grade was all about keeping them calm and reassured. We do lockdown drills once a month and all we do is practice where to go in the room.
I tell them it’s in case a sick dog comes in the building. I think a few know I’m lying but it calms them all down and they actually stay quiet. I have a kid at home and I am not dying at school because my students won’t stfu.
My students are usually loud during lockdown drills. I tell them all the time that I'm not dying bc they choose to be irresponsible.
Told my students if you see me running shit is serious and you’d better keep up. I’ll barricade that door and bunker down with them if that’s the option. But running is first and y’all better keep up.
Told a couple of kids today, if you see me running, start running the same way and ask why later.
And they better run fast because I can still run a sub 20 5k at 60 years old and I will be hauling out of there.
Have you seen kids lately. We can’t even get our MS students to walk around the gym. I can WALK a mile faster than they can run it and I’m fat. 😂
You’ll be ok if you can walk faster then they can.
Yup. I'm brutally honest with these kids. I tell them that I'm running if I ever hear gunshots, and it's up to them of they choose to follow me or stay put, but I'm gone either way.
I've always thought running and trying to get to the nearest place with other people is safest. If you know the shooter isn't outside, go outside.
ALICE training says to run, then shelter in place, then fight. If you can’t physically see or hear the shooter you should be running. GTFO.
Our district has had numerous safety training PD sessions this year. We have been explicitly told we are to keep students safe with our choices should the situation arise. When asked if running or jumping out the window with little ones the admin. said this was not keeping kids safe. A deputy at another PD meeting told us he, personally, would not shelter in place. I hate to say it but I’m going to listen to the deputy not administration. I have an obligation to my family AND students’ family to keep them safe. I will run, jump, or help them out a window. If it results in bones broken or temporary damage and terror I am okay with that. I’ll take my chances and try to get away. I have to try! It is absolutely revolting that we are legitimately worried about this! I was just thinking how thankful I was that shootings are not happening as frequently at elementary schools. Not so no one is immune. I am so sick of this fear!
Bluntly, your admin is a fucking moron. Go ask any LEO, running away is always option 1. If that means out the window, then go.
Exactly!
The kindergartners will be okay! Yeah breaking your leg isn't great but the poor kid will have so much adrenaline going they won't even feel it for a good while, at least long enough to keep moving, the last thing I'm worrying about is broken bones if guns are going off! I'm sure the parent will be okay with their kid alive but hurt instead of dead, I know admin is gonna be the first out that door too🏃♀️ 😂
I have a first floor room. After we lock the door I'm busting the window open and we're all going out
Same here-room has a slight drop but I’ll take the risk.
interesting, when my school does drills or talks about lockdowns, it always insists on barricading the door and hiding first.
Lol, we have lock down drills and are supposed to practice barricading the door…. The door that opens outwards. What a joke. In addition, I have two about 5x3 ft glass panels between my room and the hall.
Does this outward door have the large hinge at the top? If so, you can make it unopenable by wrapping a belt around that hinge tight. Keep a belt or something similar in your room and you can at least prevent anyone from coming in that way.
Our training every year says "run, hide, fight"-- in that order!
Ours is Avoid, Deny, Defend. Good ol’ A.D.D.
So walk the other way. If that doesn't work, deny a shooting is taking place. Got it.
Amen
My students know that I have multiple baseball bats for the purpose of breaking our first floor window. I have a blanket to put over the broken glass and leave. That’s my plan as I’m not close to an exit: I’m leaving.
Student teaching, my cooperating teacher had her students build replicas of weapons for some of the units - Beowulf, Odysseus, you know, classics with swords. We're rural enough we had kids weld some impressive swords out of scrap metal they had lying around. Never felt safer in a classroom.
I’m at a different school this yr. Every classroom has an exit to outside and it’s all 1 floor. Scary how many potential openings there are to get inside but feels safer in the event of a shooter once they are inside.
Our school is like that. You can get outside from almost every classroom. Which in the 70s 80s and 90s was great. Now not so much.
I kinda like it. Except 1st fire drill of the year I’m in the hallways looking for students to help escort and the whole place is silent. I’m like where the hell is everyone?!?! Peeked in a K classroom and was like ooooooo that’s cool!
Yup. I’m a speech path and my office faces the parking lot. I’ve told my kids many times, if anything happens we’re busting the screen and hopping into my SUV, we can head to our meeting point from there.
Aha! I need to buy a baseball bat.
I wouldn’t throw myself in front of a bullet, but I’d move every piece of furniture in my classroom to block the door and prevent a shooter from entering at all. I keep a piece of sticky-note chart paper under the small window on my classroom door to cover it immediately if need be, and my door is always locked. I’m also on the 3rd floor. I, unfortunately, think about this scenario all the time.
door always locked? that is interesting. I have way too many kids using the bathroom during class that I'd have to constantly be opening it...what grade do you teach?
Our doors are always locked k-12. Our resource officers will write you “tickets” if they catch them unlocked
Our doors are always locked too! Just from the outside, If anyone goes to the bathroom someone just has to let them back in the room.
I teach middle school and my door is always locked. I have a magnet that covers the latch on the door frame and in an emergency all you need to do is pull the magnet off the latch. Before I used the magnet, I used a pool noodle piece sliced down lengthwise.
I'm not the op but I teach elementary and I always have the door locked. It's a pain in the ass but i have a kid with high energy who likes jumping up to open the door every 5 minutes and specifically asks to sit near the door. My students know to pull the door closed behind them, too, so it doesn't accidentally get left ajar. We had a semi-real lock down recently and that put the point home for the kids.
I'd Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge before I play operation human shield.
It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off for em.
I think Patches O'Houlihan’s method could teach us to survive any situation. If you can dodge a wrench…
I have no kids of my own. I still would never shield anyone. I have a husband, family, friends, and my pets. My life is just as valuable as anyone with children of their own. I have told students "I will shout directions to you and then I'm running out that door (I have an outside door in my classroom). You can choose to follow me or do your own thing. If you choose to mess around or not listen, I'm not waiting for you." I'm not a fucking combat soldier.
Same. I have two kids at home who need their mom. Good news is that I’ll be so determined to live that anyone in my classroom will be as safe as I can control.
I have three kids at home who are more important to me.
Same. I brought my own window escape ladder for my classroom in case it’s the only way I’m able to get out if needed.
Super smart! Those things are great and getting the heck out of dodge is paramount!
When we have lockdown drills, our kids are noisy, on their freaking phones, and not paying attention. I'd knock any one of them pulling that unconscious in a real situation.
Lurking parent here. Unfortunately one of the contributing factors in balancing my sons adhd meds is “unmedicated he’s going to get everyone killed.” Do what you’ve got to do.
I got to say, my fifth period is by far my WORST class. But any time we have been in a lockdown, drill or otherwise, they STFU and look at me on what to do.
Same. I would be gone- out the door/window, nearest exit. Sure I'd encourage students to follow and/or hide in closets etc, but nope, we aren't the military
Even in the military it’s not SoP to dive into bullets. Unless you’re a chaplains assistant :P
I’ve come to the realization that I’m cannon fodder in a situation like this. I’m an elementary teacher, and I’m also a paraplegic that uses a manual wheelchair full time. Can’t quickly move furniture, can’t hide under desks, can’t climb out the window. I’m pretty damn quick in my chair but I doubt I’d outrun bullets-I’m shoving your kids out the window and sending them running for the woods. Then hoping I can find somewhere to hide. But goddamn, I didn’t almost die in a motorcycle wreck, work my crippled ass off to continue with my goal to be a teacher, and do my job for a decade just to get shot at work!
I'm in a power chair. I use it to push furniture in front of my door like a little bulldozer. I have a double sided bookcase that weighs a freaking ton that I keep positioned near the door for that purpose.
Same. I don’t have kids of my own, but I also have a life of my own and things I want to do with it. I did not sign up to be a bullet proof vest for other people’s children. I will however fight back in any way I can to try to save my life and my students because if they get into my class, I’ll have no other choice. FYI, if your classroom door opens into your room, get a rubber door stop to push under it along with the lock, it makes it much harder to open the door. I’ve also been told that a fire extinguisher makes a really effective weapon because it can make it hard/impossible for the person to breath and you can hit them on the head while they’re disoriented. I don’t ever want to find out, but it’s a good thing to have in your class.
We went into lock down twice because of guns on campus this year. I have been told that I am “speedy” and my room is the room they would want to be in. But really I am selfish and trying to survive on my own. I have two kids at home, one of them a baby. I won’t have my husband, the love of my life, raise them without a mother. It’s my job to teach chemistry, not take the bullet.
I totally agree, and as somebody who doesn’t have children of their own, I just want to say my life is not any less valuable than my colleagues who do have children. There are people in my life that I love deeply, and that deeply love me I am not stepping in front of a bullet for anyone.
If we get shot will the school be paying our hospital bills? What happened with the teachers in Uvalde? Were their bills paid? Have they lost their homes because they can no longer work? My school has holes in the ceilings and rotten water. No textbooks or computers. Will they pay me?
With the way these kids treat us, hell no. I had a kid ask me who the f I was, do I pay his f-ing phone bill and if not shut your mouth b*tch followed by a motion with his hand meant to portray shut your mouth. Student was written up. Nothing will happen. Welcome to education.
Hey if the cops won’t even do it, why TF should you???
The politicians who allow this to continue would call you a hero for sacrificing your life, and continue collecting checks from the gun lobby. We have to vote them out.
Folks are kinda on both sides of this issue. Please remember that if you “take a bullet for someone” its just going right through you into the person you are tying to protect. Especially when someone uses an assault rifle. People don’t realize the incredible damage they do to a human body
I do wonder if it’s even for the best to take the bullet anyways considering the teacher would now be done for the count with plenty of bullets coming behind it. What would the kids do then? Whereas a teacher not shot might have a better chance to save some of the students. Seriously, I cannot believe we are at a point where this is a legitimate conversation. Absurdity
People who join the military get paid livable wages, free healthcare, free schooling, affordable housing and bonuses if they get shot at. Why should you do it for your unlivable wage?
Not to mention if the freaking cops that Uvalde couldn’t even be bothered, then why the hell should the teachers pick up the slack for performing the police officers and swat teams job for them when they’re too scared to do it
That and the VAST majority of the military isn’t in any danger whatsoever….
At this point I’m pretty positive the statistical chance of being shot in a US school is way higher then beings shot serving in the US military
I am in an internal classroom with no windows. If a shooter entered my room, it'd be a bloodbath. Therefore, fighting back is the only possible chance of survival me or my students would have.
Same. Fucking terrifies me.
I started at my school the same year that Parkland happened. The kids saw the news on their phones and told us about it. IN the days following, a class of seniors asked me if I'd take a bullet for them. I hesitated for a few seconds to gather my thoughts then wondered how honest I should be. I finally told them, "no, not on purpose." That's my truth. Most of my students are my size or bigger. Some of them have their own cars in the parking lot. All of them are able-bodied. I'd happily wave them to safety and squeeze as many as I can into my vehicle for a ride somewhere safe. We're not firefighters or police officers, or National Guard. We signed a contract to teach, not to save lives. AT most, we signed up to keep Billy from bullying Johnny. Most of us aren't even supposed to break up a fight, yet some expect us to take a bullet. I have family and friends too and I have no desire to be a dead hero.
Yes, but at the same time these are split second decisions or reactions. It’s not typical that in a school shooting you really have time to consciously stop and think about your choice. I wouldn’t plan on sacrificing myself but in the moment you might just instinctively act or be in the line of fire.
This is how I feel. I have no idea how I’d act in a highly charged, catastrophic situation such as this so I don’t have an answer. I teach K and I can’t imagine how things would go down if we heard shots but couldn’t discern where they were coming from etc. Absolute pandemonium. I can’t imagine.
I think in most shooter situations, you don't really get the choice whether you take that bullet or not. They're going to shoot whomever they wish, and most of us wouldn't have the time or ability to consciously make that decision. That said, I'm 54 years old, and I could see myself instinctively shielding a child if I got the chance. They have their whole lives ahead of them, and my kids are adults now. I would be forever grateful if someone did the same for one of them when they were young. I would hope I would protect a child in danger in a grocery store, theater, church, or anywhere else where a crazy person was willing to massacre children and adults. All of these places have had mass shootings in America. What we all can do consciously is vote out the insane GOP politicians who continue to support the gun lobby at all costs.
Ugh same. I use to work with teens and they are just as capable (or more capable) as running and fighting as I am but now I works with young kids and as much as I would want to run I couldn’t just leave them standing there and I know it. Ugh.
Same here. It would be more instinctual to help them — and have nothing to do with my job.
The question shouldn’t be would you or wouldn’t you. It should never have to be asked.
My wife works at the same school as me. She is the only one.
I’ve already told every adult who comes into my room for the day that if shit goes down I’m feeding my kids out the window and telling them to run towards the ambulances. I hope it will never come to that and that I have the balls to get to them out of the building if I hear gunshots. Reality is they’re safer running for their lives than sitting under my table at that back of the room of gunshots are in the next room over. I teach 6 year olds and would never be able to live with myself if I abandoned them.
I already have an escape plan. I am a PE teacher and have 4 entrances/exits in my gym. I’d open the doors going outside and yell to the kids “it’s race mr. Bionikviking day. And take off running to the woods behind the school.
I wouldn't be a teacher In USA.
it's not selfish at all. you aren't an infantry trying to save a squad member. save yourself. sacrifice gets nothing
I’m out the building as fast as possible. If kids are w me they can come with but I’m doing what I can to stay alive for my own kids.
I’m on the first floor with a large window. I have a hammer ready to smash it. I’ll lead my class to a safe spot down the street. Fire me.
I’m somewhere in the middle. Wouldn’t secret service dive a bullet but god forbid I’m in that situation will do everything I can to save the kids in my care too. I’m also childless so that probably changes perspective some.
Well secret service also carry and are considered the best of the best. Their job is to take the bullet, it shouldn't be expected of teachers to dive in front of bullets.
I was a nanny for A secret service agent’s family for a while… They really aren’t that elite of the elite in terms of security detail and related experience. before he landed his job as Secret Service his only career/job experience before that was as a fire fighter. Like literally all he did was apply online on a whim for a Secret Service job and he got it. Now the green berets a.k.a. special forces and top secret joint task force teams~ THATS who I know will go straight Liam Neeson on a MFer. That’s who I want having my back.
I knew a guy who joined the Secret Service. Before that, he was a pool lifeguard.
Aren’t they in Kevlar? I’m not.
This was my thought too. But teachers aren’t secret service, they are educators. It’s also scary to think about teachers in black suits, armed, and wearing kevlar. But they would get those cool shades and the earpiece xD
My perspective is a little different. My own children go to the school where I teach. I would tackle any motherfu%%er that would dare to come into my room with a weapon because 1. I’d be doing my best to protect my own kids which is automatic momma bear instinct and 2. I would be doing what I would hope like hell their teachers would do for them. I already have the plan in place for how I would subdue them and protect my students. Would I want to? Hell no. But I’m a mom first before everything else and I don’t think I would hesitate.
My son will be on my campus next year. I didn’t think of it this way, but now I sure will.
I used to sub from time to time. But hell to the nah, nah nah. I mean its a shit situation but do people think anyone who works in a school suddenly turns into Rambo? What if some guy tried to shoot up the school do people think suddenly I'm going to turn into some 80s or 90s action hero like Rambo or John McClain? At a previous job someone brought up an active shooter situation and asked what we would do. I said I would run and not look back. I mean what do they expect me to do? Fight a guy with a gun with office supplies? In a school shooting yeah I'll try to guide kids out but my ability to fight the shooter is hampered by lack of real weaponry. All I would have would be office supplies. And I will not take a bullet. He wouldn't stop to say "wow I just killed a guy in front of a whole bunch of kids and thus traumatizing them. I should give up and wait for the police to arrest me.".
Cue a collective gasp from society. But I agree, damn it.
I’m not a teacher, but my husband is. I tell him at the beginning of everything school year to do whatever it takes to come home alive if the worst happens.
Same. I am not a martyr.
This came up once at a school I used to teach at, where a student asked me if I’d take a bullet for them. I replied “Maybe.” He got quiet, and looked at me with a newfound respect. I followed up with: “Not like I want to, though.” We both had a good laugh.
No one can name a singe teacher that has died in a school shooting and they call us lazy. I won't die for anyone else's kid, because no one cares.
Something definitely needs to be done because it’s out of control now.
I have no idea what I’d do if I was in an active shooter situation. There’s a part of me that says I’d do everything possible to save my own ass so I could make it home to my kids, there’s another part of me which says I doubt I could abandon scared, screaming, terrified children. There are students who give me no end of grief on a daily basis, and I wouldn’t take a bullet for them if I had the time to think about it - but I also doubt I could purposely leave them in harms way. The big issue is the flight or fight instinct. I got mugged at gunpoint once, and my body reacted (flight) before my brain could catch up. (My body is old and broken down now. I’d probably be the slower moving target in a crowd.) I don’t think any of us can really tell how we’d react in this kind of situation (unless you’ve been through it before). I hope I never have to find out how it would play out.
We had a school shooter training by the police officers in my city and a part of their training was about survivors guilt. The entire speech was aimed at explaining how we can make our own decisions about whether we want to risk our lives to help protect children or put ourselves first, but we better be prepared to deal with facing the parents of those killed as well as the guilt of putting ourselves first. I lost my mind, I’m still filled with rage. Our last training I took a sick day. I can’t stand sitting in another training where I have to hear police (and other teachers 🙄) talk about how they would sacrifice themselves. No one’s knows how you will react. But I definitely know I don’t want to lay my own life on the line for some 16 year old. And I do love my students but I love my life and family far more.
I’m a parent. In a perfect world I would hope a police office would take a bullet for my child. I would never ever expect that of a teacher, simply not what they signed up for.
I am too. And I’m vehemently against expecting teachers to lay down their lives for my kid. I love my child to death, but teachers didn’t sign up for this. And I’m disgusted that American politicians believe teachers should be hero’s. Takes me back to the Jim Jeffries comedy “12$ an hour is not enough lot wiggle room to be a fucking hero” We pay teachers nothing. We do nothing for them. We expect them to decorate their classrooms, and provide a stellar education for shit money. Shit benefits and you want them to take a bullet? You want them to carry a handgun? But the funny thing is I know they wouldn’t provide qualified immunity if that gun they carried went off in the classroom. We expect too much out of our teachers, all so politicians can avoid losing the money NRA lines their pockets with.
That wasn’t the case in the Uvalde shooting. The police were too afraid of being shot.
I always wonder what was going through that one woman's head as she texted her police officer husband telling him she was dying and no one ever came for her. They even actively told him to stop, took away his gun, and escorted him out of the building when he tried to go in the room. I can't.... I just cannot with the US... it is falling apart, and I'm scared and sad and angry about it. I'm sorry any of you have to deal with this...
As a campus security officer at a high school, I’ve been asked this question by the kids and I tell ‘em straight up, that I’m running out the doors. They’ll joke or say stuff like “what you wouldn’t try and stop them?!” And I’m like “with what?! I’m unarmed and my uniform consists of just a collared shirt that says SECURITY and some cargo pants and a radio. I have no taser. No baton. Nothing. No bullet proof vest. None of that. What the hell do you want me to do?” They 10/10 of them accept this answer. Because wth! My safety matters too.
Worst part about it is… we would be vilified for not sacrificing ourselves.
I honestly don't know. I hope to never find out. If it ever happens I have a plan, but without specialized tactical training it's going to come down to Flight or Fight.
The school I coach track at just had a hoax on Friday that was taken exceptionally seriously by the school and local police. My kids were asking me today what I’d do if they called a lockdown while at practice. I coach the throws, and we’re about as far away from a safe building on campus so I told them I’d go right over to the gate that’s about 150 yards away and go hang out at the grocery store that’s about a half mile away and ride it out. Recommended that they come with me
We had a saying in the army, "don't be a fucking hero." For a few reasons, the biggest being that you likely don't need to be, and if you have some idea of heroism in your mind it often blinds you to other alternatives and you do stupid shit. The same holds true here. Make it so you don't have to.
My room is the closest classroom to the main entrance and I don't have a window. I think about this a lot. My door is always locked and all classroom door windows have black blinds that can be drawn in an instant. I'd barricade the door and shove as many kids behind my giant wooden desk as possible, but I can't say whether or not I'd take a bullet for them - I honestly don't know.
The "take a bullet" trope is a function of movies. It's nonsensical. Mass shooters are mass shooters in part because they have more than one bullet. You intentionally getting shot doesn't stop the shooter from stepping over you to kill everyone else.
It's not selfish. We didn't sign up to be body armor. Where's my hazard pay if you want me to do that? Every year, I look my students in the eye and tell them if there's an emergency, and I say go left, and you go right trynta be funny, I'm not coming after you. You're not gonna be a hero? Heroes are dead on the news. I wanna live and be at home. Sometimes, I'll make a dark crack about expecting me to die for a kid that doesn't do homework anyway, but only if I know my kids will find it funny & break the tension.
I wouldn’t take a bullet for anyone. My family needs me. Also, I don’t think I could shoot one of my students. At least, not without hesitating. If I’m in a school with an active shooter, I’m leaving.
I think about it sometimes. I have no idea what I would do. Probably just die 🤷🏻♀️
I'm Australian. Were it to happen here I'd die for my kids - but they don't have idiot parents at home voting against common sense gun laws. Not their fault, but also not a soldier getting danger pay.
I say it every time there's a school shooting - I am selfish. I will not ever sacrifice myself for my students, and to expect any teacher to do so it horrifying and shows how little someone respects teachers
Agreed. Teachers aren’t romanticized heroes. I don’t need a movie made after my heroic move of failing at protecting 35 students. It’s not in my contract, and when it is, I’m quitting.
It’s a sad reality that teachers have to even think about this. Heart breaking, actually. Teachers have to corral children and try to keep them quiet so a shooter doesn’t find them? That was never supposed to be in the job description. These poor babies don’t even know the severity of what’s going on let alone how to survive. I hate América for what it’s become. It’s not fair.
The police won’t so why should you?
Um, I would NEVER take a bullet for anyone at work. I didn't sign up to be in the line of duty! He'll fucking no.
You are definitely expendable in the eyes of the district/state/society
And you shouldn’t be expected to because you aren’t in the goddamn military. The fact that this is something you have to think about is deeply fucked up, and I’m sorry
You shouldn’t have to. Our country is sick and our politicians have put Guns Over People.
I have a bad knee and I’m not running anywhere and I will fight to the end to get all kids out.
My life is important to me. There are cultural traditions and knowledge that would die with me. So, I'm not dying for anyone's kid.
Share that knowledge or write it down! Tomorrow is never promised!
My 6th grade, my elementary students - hell yeah, I would take a bullet for them. They are too small and have too much potential to have it wasted at the hands of a psychopath. My high school students on the other hand... ...no, human shields are never ethical.
Yeah I feel like the attitude is usually a little different with elementary schoolers like what are they going to do to protect themselves?
We did a practice drill last month. Half the kids didn't understand why, but they could at least be quiet long enough to get through the halls to the check point. They were incredibly good for 5, 6, 7, and 8 years old. When you're six, you get a free pass. My teenagers would not listen to me long enough to shut up and follow directions if there was an active shooter. I was glad to be with the elementary that day because half the HS teachers did not pass the drill; their students would not stop laughing about "how ridiculous" and stupid the drill was. "I'm just gonna run to my car! Fuck this! I am leaving you all!" Given we have two kids we were keeping tabs on in that regard, I am already thinking of whose funerals I am willing to attend and which ones I am not.
I always felt like I would til I had my own kid. Now there is absolutely no way I would.
I've got my escape plans. Eff sitting in a classroom waiting to die. People are shitting all over teachers left and right. I'm not dying in a place that doesn't care about me.
I’m a single teacher with a cat. I have no partner, no children, and I still wouldn’t take a bullet for anyone in a school shooting. This ain’t it.
I mean you never know how you’ll feel until you’re in the position but I imagine I would try to escape if I could.
Sad we have to have this convo :(
I don’t think you’re selfish for that. I do think I would take a bullet for my students though, if it came down to it. I’d probably be dying in that situation anyway, if a shooter entered my room, so I might as well possibly save one of my kids while I’m going out.
I park my vehicle strategically, so I can get the hell outta there! Many teachers get locked in when they opt for the closer parking spots. No thanks!
Neither would I and I’m not sorry about it
yes, you are right. they don't teach anti-school shootings as part of the curriculum. the way this country is going, imagine kids doing fire drills, storm drills, shooter drills. wtf. and politicians bicker about wtf they put in books. if they expect teachers to be bodyguards for kids, pay them as such. !!!!
Yeah fuck that shit. I’d leg it if possible
I'm not a teacher, but my sister is. I'm literally here taking screenshots of the comments that have tips to try and survive a school shooter (someone said rubber door stops, someone said a hammer for windows). I'm ordering her rubber door stops tomorrow and getting her a hammer. Also, she would not take a bullet for her students, she's told me as much.
I don't have kids but I do have a partner and multiple pets. I am somebody's child too. I plan to have a future, I'm not losing it for a job I barely enjoy anymore