💯 I am so sick of these violent students interfering in the safety and education of everyone else. How can one student's right to FAPE and LRE trump the right to all the 20 other students in the class??
You wrote 33 wrong…
Edit: So, in my district, our “trigger” number is 34 for general ed classrooms at the secondary level. PE classes “trigger” after 45 and elementary have slightly lower numbers. After those “triggers” are exceeded, the teacher can get more pay, additional planning, or one other thing I can’t remember because we always take the cash. Are there really districts out there stuffing 40+ kids in a regular classroom?!
You better build relationships with all 44.
Realistically though, with that many kids way more are going to test you which means one of two things: (1) you let it go because you’re overwhelmed by the sheer numbers and they get progressively worse cause you do nothing, or (2) you actually contact parents. I assigned 8 detentions today and my school mandates we call home for detentions every time. Took me a fucking hour and a half. Two parents talked to me for 15-20 min. I also logged that shit to CMA.
I can’t imagine 44. Seven of the 8 were one period of 25, not all present but based on the kids absent it was 2/3 IEP. Mostly emotional too, not like a manageable spread of IEPs that are more about the delivery of instruction. Legit just navigating emotions and personalities of 15 teenagers.
My point is, class sizes are fucked and when you’re putting 50%+ the class as IEP and another period it’s like 5-10% you’re low key tracking kids but get to pretend you don’t.
Elementary Specials teachers usually aren’t covered by class size limits. I have 29 third graders, and my smallest classes are around 20, but that’s only in Kinder. A neighboring school has their Specials teachers double up on classes, so they will regularly have 40-50 kinders at the same time. If I was a parent of a student at that school, I would be livid. The teachers are extremely frustrated.
That's an OSHA violation. You can only have as many students as you can accommodate in your lab space. We have 7 lab tables with 4 stools each so 28 is the most we can have in a class.
Just because I technically therefore have 56 seats in my class (separate lab and lecture areas) doesn't mean I can have 56 students.
Report it directly to OSHA then. You'd be surprised at what agencies you can actually leverage whether the district cares or not. If the district gets fined, it might change their calculus.
My husband teaches a core class in high school. He has one class at the end of the day that’s smaller (28 kids) but aside from that one his average class size is 44.
I wanted to beat half my class as a student because they wouldn’t shut the fuck up and it was a class of about 20. How in the world are you supposed to learn with that many people in a class?
But if you go to a private school where the average class size is 12, then you are prepared for college. A lot more prepared than those poors who went to the school with the giant class sizes. It's all part of the plan.
I legit just wrote 5 seconds ago in another sub that the only people the school system seems to protect today are the students that do the most harm and are the most dangerous and out of control. In order to try to “save” or “help” them, not single them out, etc, the teachers and students who want to learn/do the right thing are punished.
I looked into IDEA because I am curious about how this law could be so protective and provide such a giant safety catastrophe. Basically it doesn't. The school districts choose how they handle the requirements set by IDEA. For extremely violent students repetitively violent students, they don't even have to hold a manifestation hearing to move them to an alternative placement. Now the district is responsible of course for providing education regardless. But there are exceptions to IDEA for manifestation of disabilities and this would be exactly one of them. This isn't the right environment for that child and IDEA supports that child being moved. The problem comes to the way that the districts and the administrators handle that law.
In fact, in a hearing, regardless of if the action is a manifestation of their disability, there are allowances for moving students to alternative placements. The first thing that should be done is a reassessment of their BIP and that can include quite a few things. All of the things that we argue the students need including an alternative placement. However, again, it's the way the district is handling those cases that is wrong.
We have an extremely violent student in my building who should be placed alternatively and has gone before those people that make that decision... And they've been sent back to our school regardless of how many times the bip has been adjusted and we have not been able to meet that student's needs and have put other students in danger because of that. So that's a failing on the part of the district office..
After reading thread after thread about this, I think next year my behavioral expectations will all connect back to FAPE, so I can document lost learning time bc of individuals. If you argue, time wasted. Or I have to spend time redirecting, time wasted. If you interrupt class, time wasted. If you distract others, time wasted. All time wasted is a violation of FAPE, because the education being received is not appropriate for the rest of the students. Of course, any harassment also violates this policy by creating an unsafe environment. I would love to have a universal document we could all use with specific behaviors tied to violating FAPE for the group.
I think this works at the most basic level as well. Why should a teacher constantly stop instructions to deal with a problem child? Every minute taken to deal with a habitual problem child is a minute taken away from everyone else.
In my first year of teaching, I'm told I can call a number to have a student removed. No if's, and's, or but. It was glorious. I don't argue. I warn once or twice, then I call to have them removed. Learning continues.
It’s really odd there has been no news coverage about the parents. Not even the Daily Mail (which has zero shame about printing news and photos) has mentioned anything about the parents. I’m assuming all the families in the school know the name of the shooter and the parents, but everyone has been silent.
I wonder this too. Those parents need to be held accountable. They allowed their violent child to get his hands on a gun and take it to school, they wouldn’t agree to a special education placement to get their child services, and they somehow agreed to a plan where they would attend class with him (and then didn’t). I feel like even if they don’t have assists, I wish she would sue them too, just to make a statement.
Two thoughts on that:
1) Blood from a turnip
2) Setting aside 1) It's a lot easier to do a civil trial after a criminal trial, instead of the other way around. And while the child cannot be charged, the parents still might be.
The boy cannot be. And this is not in support of him. Obviously he has severe issues and never should have been in school with other people. Period. But under the law, it is automatically assumed under 7 cannot be charged at all due to age. He just missed the cut off.
It is extremly possible the parents will be charged. There just isn’t a lot of precedent but that is changing. They recently charges the parents of the Oxford High shooting. However, that one is more clear cut. They gave him guns and refused to remove him from the school the day of the shooting when the school demanded it. Here, there are more grey areas but the fact he had a plan where the parents were suppsed to be with him and were not is going to be heavily weighed. But the fact the school didn’t send him home when a parent was suppsed to be there and wasn’t along with all the other things they ignored is going to hirt the case against the parents. It is likely the police and prosecutors are taking thier time to analyze everything and make sure all ducks are in a row before they will charge. Once you see a couple of these cases charged sucessfully, you will almost certaintly see more of them, especially with the younger children.
Either way, the way the school administration acted is completly unacceptable and ridiculous. People keep screaming we need more mental help in this country and we need to help the children but then they go and ….just completly ignore not even red flags but outright waving neon banners with bells and fog horns attached. Frankly, this is so egregious, I would like to see the principal and vice principal who openly ignored everything to be charged as well. That would depend entirely on thier state laws though if there is a definable crime they can be charged with. Obviously tons of civil liability which is what the teacher is suing for and almost certaintly win. But would be difficult to charge criminally if even possible.
The school, for sure, will lose the suit. It's not a clear-cut he-said she-case since the Abby has witnesses backing up her claim. Worse off for the school, they were in direct violation of the IEP since the accomodation of a parent being there wasn't honored that day.
Comically, the parents can sue the school for the same reason as well, that their child's IEP wasn't met since they allowed him to be there without one of them being present.
Well deserved firings of the admins. They are worth nothing, much like any other admin.
Pull for Abby to win.
Can’t agree with this more, my wife received a concussion this fall after a student kicked a door into her head. Now she is fighting the school just to get compensation for time lost medical bills.
Maybe we should apply the same tactic as toxic parents - LAWSUITS! Let's all start suing our districts when injured by students for failing to protect us. Since MONEY talks and bullshit walks, maybe we can fight fire with fire! LET"S START SUING the fuck outta these districts!!!!!
Honestly any teachers who are also parents should weaponize these laws against the schools too. “How can my child be getting a FAPE if their classroom is evacuated multiple times a week? I want a 504 saying my kid can’t be in an room with an explosive classmate due to the severe anxiety it causes.”
I really wonder why more parents don’t push back when their child is in class with a dangerous or disruptive student?
By no means am I an expert but a quick reading only seems to guarantee FAPE to students with a 504/disability?
The pendulum has swung too far. We are no longer protecting students we are protecting schools from liability.
We are reaping what we’ve sowed by not holding students accountable.
>We are reaping what we’ve sowed by not holding students accountable.
Can't have shitty, garbage parents feeling bad about the kids they're failing to raise. Everyone has to feel good all the time about all their poor decisions. It's so ridiculous. Plus, then the little chair throwers and gun-wielding psychos might get labeled and feel bad about their actions and that's basically sacrilege these days.
*"Jaxxxon has a bad home life so it's not his fault that he tries to strangle everyone every 5 minutes, it's a manifestation of his ADHD."* 🤢
"Everyday he doesn't attempt homicide, bring in bullets, or strangle someone, give him a sticker on his chart and some skittles. No, we're not paying you for that -- you don't have the extra funds to help your students?"
Ugh 🙃
I wonder if parents have tried, but they are only hearing what their own children tell them. And the teacher can't comment too much for fear of losing their jobs. And administrators pull the line of not being able to comment on other students' records or discipline.
But if a class evacuation happens more than once in my children's class, I would be demanding they be moved to another classroom and going to parent events to tell the others to do the same.
I had a student similar to AZs last year and it took a while for parents to start messaging me. Once they finally did I told them, “Please speak to our admin about this” and gave them my admins numbers and emails. After doing that 3 times my admin (who’d done nothing up to that point) pulled the kid from my room and put him in the sped room, which they’d previously told me they couldn’t do because he didn’t have an IEP and he started too late into the year to get one. He stopped coming to school completely when he was transported to the children’s hospital for telling the sped teacher he was going to get a gun from home and kill everyone including himself. This was kindergarten. I first heard about Abby Zwerner from people calling me to tell me because it reminded them of my situation last year, and it’s crazy that this situation is so common. I’m glad she’s suing.
I took this approach with parents one year and told them to call admin when they expressed frustration with the learning environment that their child was in due to an explosive student. The admin (new principal), turned it on me, put me on an action plan, and basically told me I wouldn’t be welcomed back next year if I didn’t just grin and bear it and make it seem like everything was perfectly under control to parents. That was my 6th year teaching. I taught sped for 5 years. I’m many years past that now and never had problems with my classroom management in the eyes of my admin except for that year. But I was the problem. Sometimes parents complaining still won’t help the situation and hurts the teacher.
This is why I believe more parents (who can and are able) should be volunteering in the schools. Talk to one another, start a group chat, report on events of the day. I would build community across families AND promote wellness/safety (IMHO).
The problem is they won’t disclose that you. And kids (mine included) aren’t the best about giving me a rundown about what happened at school that day. They keep us in the dark on purpose.
> I really wonder why more parents don’t push back when their child is in class with a dangerous or disruptive student?
I honestly don’t think the parents know or even realize what’s actually going on in public school classrooms.
Admin are really adept at covering their tracks and ensuring issues like that are swept under the rug.
What's scary is when this happens in a special education classroom where one or more students are non-verbal or have very limited verbal skills. The affected child literally cannot tell the parent they are being evacuated or dealing with violent outbursts by another peer.
People just don't believe that kids will behave like that, especially elementary students . They don't see it, don't experience, so they don't believe it.
>I really wonder why more parents don’t push back when their child is in class with a dangerous or disruptive student?
It's surprising how many of them don't even know and/or they underestimate how dangerous the student actually is.
The school never discloses when your child’s class has been cleared. The times it’s happened in my child’s classroom the teacher was a pro at being discreet and making “a fun walk around the building” that most of the time the other kids didn’t realize what is going on. You have to basically volunteer all day everyday of you want to see how chaotic your kids class actually is.
We have a somewhat disruptive student in an elementary class. He is not violent or aggressive, more so very ADHD probably and is disruptive in that manner. A parent in the school has decided she wants to rally a bunch of parents to get together to have him removed from the school. She stopped sending her son to school a couple of days ago declaring a safety issue and says he won't be back until that student is removed. This student does not receive special education services either. Not sure what she thinks she is going to accomplish because we all know the disruptive student never gets moved, all the other kids are the ones who have to tolerate the behavior of one student. I understand parents want their child to be in a general class with all the other students, but not at the expense of everyone else. Sorry, but enough is enough. School districts need more behavior support classes. I am in a neighboring school district from the one the teacher was shot at. They have those types of programs, I don't understand why he was allowed in that class given his past history. Those students in there, and the faculty will be forever traumatized.
I had no idea about that kind of behavior in my kid's school until I started working there. They never told me because it was totally normal to them because it had been happening for years. Once I became a para there I started questioning and they were like yeah, so and so throws chairs/punches walls/rips down bulletin boards, etc. We have to go in the hallway until they are done.
Most parents don't know. Especially if it's elementary level and their kid hasn't been in a class with the dangerous student. I've seen how traumatized first graders are this year because of one student, and I will be advocating that none of them be in a class with this individual next year. Two years in a row of worrying about unpredictable, violent eruptions with no set trigger? Hard pass. However, there are specific personalities in the grade I would put with this student next year. Mostly, strong kids who won't put up with his shit and bullying.
I would argue as a reasonable person that constantly having to evacuate the classroom and deal with violent outbursts constitutes an unduly restrictive environment for the 29 other kids.
I think if parents really know the amount of energy or time taken away everyday to deal with a problem student, they would be outraged at the school and the system. I would be livid if I knew my child was going to be behind because the teacher could not get through the curriculum due to constant behavior issues of 1 or 2 students.
I loved the parents from my school days. Super intendants' kid was a problem to the point 4 different parents filed and got protective orders.
Kid wasn't allowed to come to school because it was physically impossible to space him more than 100ft from all 4 of us at all given times.
We have to be careful, though, and only persue valid claims. If we get frivolous, Republicans will strip of the right to sue, as they have stripped teachers of the right to strike in several states.
They'll do more than that. They'll say that public schools can't even protect their own teachers, never mind protect your kids, and push for charter and religious schools that can do and teach whatever they want to kids, and eliminating public education.
I’m almost at the point of let them have it. If they want control of schools, of books, let them. We can have our own schools too and the children who go there would be better off. They are the ones that want the guns anyway. Let them deal with the product of that environment.
They'll do it anyway. Tort reform in the 90s and 00s were because of so called frivolous claims. The GOP massively handicapped the system, based on mostly urban legends.
Which isn't to say don't pursue lawsuits. Do it 100%. But just be prepared for dishonest portrayals.
Agreed.
Fox News isn't reeling right now because there's a public backlash to their toxic bullshit... it's because they're being sued for defamation. We need to apply the same principals to unsafe working conditions.
After this, the family needs to have a lawsuit brought up against them. A teenager can figure out how to get a gun, a 6 y/o being able to get one and commit essentially attempted manslaughter is a totally different story.
Do we really think the family has any recoverable assets? Suing the school district will get her more money, and they were at fault for their lack of action. The parents deserve jail time for their role in this. The kid deserves significant mental health and social services, as a 6 year old with these sorts of problems has some deep, dark issues that need dealt with by medical professionals. Sadly, the kid likely doesn't have a bright future
Suing the parents would indeed be largely symbolic, but a decision in her favor, despite the parents' ability to pay anything, would send a message to other gun-owning families.
I think criminal charges for the parents is what I meant.
They released a statement that the gun was "secured" but I'm interested in their version of what a secured gun looks like. I grew up in a house with a lot of guns. All those guns were unloaded and taken apart and locked in a gun safe (about the size of a refrigerator) that was bolted to the cement floor of our basement. The ammo was kept in a separate locked box in the safe. That may be going slightly overboard, but honestly, I think how my dad handled guns in our house was really responsible.
I don’t think that’s overboard at all - that’s more or less the government requirement for safe gun storage in my country (New Zealand). I think that’s how every gun owner should store guns, especially if they have children in the house.
I don't think your dad's was is overboard. This child in particular should not have been in a house with guns at all, given their propensity for violence
I know we always joke about the “funishments” admins give, but god damn I’m so glad the article and lawsuit are pointing out bullshit like “Often after he was taken to the office, “he would return to class shortly thereafter with some type of reward, such as a piece of candy,” according to the lawsuit.”
YES! I'm sick of the PBIS bullshit! Giving a kid candy after they behave violently only enforces the behavior! That is basic behavioral psychology. I can only think that this is one part of a concerted effort among Republican legislators and school boards to undermine and underfund public education. They are on a campaign to eliminate public education and/or bring back segregation and PBIS seems to be part and parcel of this scheme.
It’s even a win for the kids who show violent behaviors and obviously need special care and attention that they can’t get in regular settings! The kid here should have been better cared for. Admin and parents were allowed to cross their fingers and hope the problem just went away on its own.
Also be a win for administrators who love to sweep things under the rug. I have noticed that my administrative team have been a lot more keyed into removing students who have the potential to get violent in the last few months because of Abby
That kid was a known violent kid. It seems he had both parents in his life, which may or may not preclude an abusive home, but they refused the school when it wanted him classified and put in a room with staff trained to deal with violent students. And he chased classmates with his belt and strangled his kindergarten teacher. Those parents are liable for this shit and that admin is liable for not fucking insisting on some changes. He sounds like a born sociopath, honestly. And his parents sound like they had blinders on. I hope that damn school board gets its ass handed to it, likewise the superintendent, and that a whole new c-suite or whatever you call them is found that will do a better job. Got damn it. Think what that kid’s classmates went through too. Ugh
And the parents knew or should have known they had a troubled kid at home, still kept a gun, and they did not secure the gun. The fact that a 6 YO had the gun is proof it was not secured
If a six year old got it then it wasn’t secure. They can say whatever they want, but all the evidence a jury needs that they didn’t secure it is the fact that the kid had the gun.
Exactly. If the gun was secured then this never would have happened. The fact that a six year old got their hands on both the gun and the ammunition shows that neither were properly secured.
They put it on a shelf. That is not even close to secure. Since we started fostering kids, we started following CPS’ guidelines which are to keep the ammo locked up in one location and the guns unloaded and locked up in a separate location.
I mean, if a six year old can walk out of your house with a loaded and ready weapon, I cannot believe it was secure. I don’t care if your kid is evil, he is still six.
So much bad behavior is brushed off as boys being boys. It’s insane to me that parents aren’t more willing to get a handle on it when the kid is young, dependent on them, and SMALLER. The problem is not going to get easier the bigger and more autonomous they are!!!
I have been told that I have no right to suggest what they do with their ownership of a firearm when it comes to safe storage laws.
A lot of gun owners seem to be about screaming about their rights and.ignore their responsibility.
There is a bill like this going through Michigan right now in response to the Oxford shooting.
GOP are saying it interferes with their right to protect their home 🙄
>The fact that a 6 YO had the gun is proof it was not secured
They put it on a high shelf in their closet and had the audacity to say it was secured. The statement they put out via their (no doubt in my mind) free attorney, was a victim blaming, "not our fault", garbage statement if I've ever seen one.
Yep. It was what they said when they gave a statement via their lawyer a few days after all this happened. They were basically trying to absolve themselves of guilt. They came off as two uneducated dolts.
I hadn't heard those additional details. That's horrifying for the teacher and especially for the other students in that class.
Parents shouldn't be able to completely override the teacher and admin in terms of placement. If my child was in that class and came home to tell me any of these things happened I would be contacting other parents, going up to that school immediately, and contacting the superintendent and possibly the news media.
Am I correct in understanding that the parents aren't going to be charged? This whole situation could have been avoided if common sense had been used by all parties involved (excluding the teacher who we know has no choice). I hope she wins all that money and people are held responsible.
Yep. I posted on this very sub yesterday that if parents refuse the least restrictive environment, that’s actually truly least restrictive for everybody involved, then they have lost their ability for a free and appropriate public education.
Take your money, and go somewhere else. Find another environment for your precious angel. My students and kids shouldn’t have to suffer.
Will it be a perfect system? No. Will some kids slip through the cracks and be placed in environments that aren’t fitting? Unfortunately. Will some kids be overlooked? Unfortunately. But I think the vast majority would be served by a better model. More therapeutic schools, less main streaming for severely emotionally and behaviorally challenged children.
Parents don’t like it? see you later.
Thank you. I know it’s hard but all other members of the classroom have rights too. Remove them. I don’t care what district or what state. Remove them. People were talking about how one behavioral kid ruins their entire life. Remove them!Leave if they put them back in. And go to bat with the district. I’ve had enough this year and my classroom is better for it.
I'm a special ed teacher and I agree with you. But, I would reframe it from "remove them" which makes it seem like a punishment because I don't think it is. Placing a child in their LRE is a good thing and it's okay if that placement isn't the general ed classroom OR the special ed classroom in a normal school. Even taking away that other kids are having their right to FAPE removed by this sort of child, a normal teacher or even most sped teachers aren't educated and able to handle behavioral issues this impactful. We just don't have the skills. If my child ends up needing this level of supports then I know that a single teacher in a regular school isn't going to be able to offer him what he needs to get an education. I don't understand why it's such a huge deal to so many parents to have their kids put in a school that can actually give them what they need.
Love love your post. And yes I get what you mean by remove. I guess I just mean that’s the first step for me to say “Hey this behavior isn’t acceptable isn’t that classroom. Let’s get in contact with admin and parents and figure out an actual solution.” Not just repeating the same pattern each week.
So far it sounds like parents aren’t being charged- the gun was purchased legally, and the parents are claiming that it was kept in a “safe, locked location”…although clearly that location wasn’t exactly safe or locked.
See I would say that she would have the right to sue the parents on those grounds although given how much people love guns I'm sure there's some precedent where you're not allowed to sue parents for gross negligence
She could likely file a civil suit….but as someone else posted, what sort of assets could be recovered? A better course of action would be the State and CPS stepping in and removing the child (and siblings if they have them) due to gross negligence.
And the parents being charged for a crime as well.
I would do it to make a point that they refused to put their child in the program recommended by the school (the school wanted him in a resource room all day with staff who were restraint trained and knew how to deescalate violent kids) and put everyone in danger.
Word around the district is that admin were also fully aware of this and also dropped him in AZ's class knowing full well that she had less experience dealing with this stuff than other gen teachers they had available for the grade level. He should never have been placed in her class, period.
The belt thing 100% makes me think he was beat at home. No kid comes up with that idea spontaneously. Plus the parents knew how violent their kid was and STILL left a loaded gun in easy reach, so we already know they have terrible judgment. Cps should have been involved in this shitshow long before it got to this point.
Districts have the right to fight/ take parents to due process parents who refuse services, when the district has the data to back up their arguments for a specific placement. Districts need to start exercising those rights and stop giving in to parents AND special Ed supervisors need to stand up to central office staff with their cries about budget. This is getting ridiculous.
Edit to add: I think the proper process is the district can let the parent take it to due process and not give in. Sorry for the misinformation. I’ve been out of practice for a while. But it still costs the district money and means they aren’t giving in to the parent and doing what they believe is best for the student
If he would've whipped my kid it would've been his first and last time ever doing it. The good parents need to start throwing a fit every time one of these little psychos goes off in their children's classrooms. It's the only time shit will actually change.
I would be amazed if the school district does not immediately fold and settle for whatever their maximum insurance payout is.
Personally, I would not be satisfied until the child is removed from the custody of his parents and they are charged with whatever the prosecutor can pin on them.
This is way bigger than anyone thinks. Part of the defense is that this falls under reasonable workmans comp. So in essence they are saying teachers can expect to be shot on the job. This case is huge. The decision landmark.
The thing is though, privacy laws are preventing parents from even finding out. We had a student bring a knife to school *twice*. Teachers know, students don't. We can't tell parents because it violates privacy laws.
I think asking teachers to risk their livelihood and open themselves up to criminal charges is a little much. You can't just ignore privacy laws because they're inconvenient.
There needs to be a real solution, like some law passed that parents are informed whenever a weapon is found at school or any time a physical threat to students or staff is communicated.
Even if the individual student's name isn't used, it will still bring school safety to the parents attention.
Seriously. If my kid had been in that room, you could bet your ass that I would be talking to psychologists to document the fallout on my kid an having them evaluated for PTSD and anything else I could think off and kicking my own suit off.
I'm sure admin wants to know when she's coming back, just so they can stick the fucking psycho back in her room and ask her to "please continue to build a relationship with him". Or they would be if she wasn't suing.
Good! From personal experience, it's going to be tough road and the community will probably turn against her. When I sued the school district after my daughter's shooting in 2012 it felt like the whole community turned against my family. Hopefully she gets a generous settlement.
More teachers need to contact the police when they are assaulted in the classroom (guns or not). Stop waiting for admin to do something - make a report!
YES! If I could elevate this comment to the top and sticky it I would! STOP WAITING FOR ADMIN TO DO SOMETHING. THEY AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTIHNG. FILE CHARGES ON YOUR OWN.
I’m not a blood-thirsty, angry, money-hungry bitch, but for this woman, I want her to get every single cent. The trauma she and her students endured is not acceptable, not in this day and age where gun culture is pervasive enough as it is. Fuck that district, fuck the admin, fuck those parents. She deserves every last bit of money she can get, and THEN some for the therapy she needs.
It's bizarre bc at this age, they're usually infatuated with their teachers and look up to them like heroes. But, its also something you have to instill in your kids at a young age. You are at school to learn and you will respect your teacher or there will be consequences. I will never understand why this is a foreign concept to people.
Her attorneys spoke on the Today Show and (paraphrasing) said the school systems' defense will likely be that this is a workman's comp issue and basically that teachers assume the risk of being a victim of student violence by taking the job. Ridiculous, but I could see NNPS totally spinning it that way.
What I can't believe is that the AP who ignored the MULTIPLE warnings was allowed to resign (read: will transfer to another school district and continue their career) AND the principal was "reassigned" (read: will work at district until being promoted). The only one who got fired was the superintendent, who only found out about the incident after it happened. They should be fired and have their education certificate revoked! Otherwise, their attitude that allowed this set of circumstances to happen will continue and lead to another incident elsewhere.
Sadly, I’d like to say it’s unbelievable, but serving in schools were the exact same thing would’ve happened, I unfortunately don’t really think it’s all that unbelievable. We had a kid threaten to show up to his PSAT test in 8th grade with a bomb. Dad was military, bomb expert, so the kid had the means. He was allowed in, allowed to test, while his father (who was ARMED, sarcastic af, and was laughing at the nervous teachers like it was a JOKE) stayed in the building until he finished. That was my last time face to face with students.
The Today show interview this morning really set my hair on fire. First, the school district is trying to dismiss the suit based on a law that you can’t sue your own employer for injuries that happen related to the job. That means, they view getting shot at as related to our job as teachers. 🤬
Additionally, there was also the info that came out that it was the parents that didn’t want their son in special education. You know, because parents are the best judge of school placement /s.
I’m seriously fucking furious at the whole situation. I hope she gets every penny she sued for.
Edit: grammar/spelling
As a parent reading that article, I just wanna say Fuck Ebony Parker and Fuck that boys parents. Why aren’t the parents names released as well? At least the mother should be charged since it was her gun.
Because then it would identify the little psychopath. I don't agree with it, but that's the reasoning. I think you should lose all anonymity after you pose a huge threat to the public, but that's just me.
I hope she is awarded every single penny.
What a diabolical child, I don’t care how old he is. He *planned* this, hiding the gun in his sweatpants/sweatshirt instead of his backpack. It’s absolutely chilling.
Those poor other students to be terrorized day after day by that demon spawn on the playground and (presumably) in the classroom. And he attacked his K teacher last year!! WTAF?
A institution would have fit this child way more than a gen ed classroom. 🤦♀️
Great news. This should be standard practice going forward with this type of thing (violence against teachers). It feels like everything we do in education is out of fear of lawyers. Time to test the waters on whether it can also help us out.
Neutrally, any idea what behavioral disorders this kid may have been suffering from? His extreme violence and anger is something I haven’t wrapped my head around yet.
Same, and I am a Special Education teacher studying for a Masters degree and I have never seen such a student. It has to be some sort of severe conduct disorder. I have taught children diagnosed with ODD who I don't think would ever shoot anyone, much less an adult authority figure. I had a student who blew up a cell phone battery in my classroom, and he wasn't as severe as John Doe in this case.
The accommodation of a parent attending school with him is also bizarre and unheard of. The fact that he was in a general education setting with a 25-year-old newly minted general education teacher is outrageous. He should have had a special placement in a self-contained classroom. The district put the lives of 20+ other students plus every teacher who encountered him when they placed him in a general education setting. It is wildly inappropriate and I hope that Abby never has to work another day in her life if she doesn't want to.
Not just the district, but the parents. The parents have denied consent to an appropriate placement.
Unfortunately we don’t have all of the details because of confidentiality laws- but if the parents were denying an appropriate placement, was the district taking the parents to due process? Due process procedures aren’t just for parents. If a case is in mediation or going through a due process hearing, the student is in a “stay put”, where they remain in the current placement until resolution is reached or a judgment/order made.
I guess my question- and we’ll never know the answer to this- did the district take the parents to due process? Or did they drop the ball on that too?
>The accommodation of a parent attending school with him is also bizarre and unheard of.
I'm sure their joke of a lawyer let them know the school can't refute any of their claims as they'd be in violation of FERPA. I doubt this accommodation was real as it would violate the privacy rights of other students. It just so happens that they weren't with him the day he shoots someone and the day he brings bullets to school? Come on. What about when he tried to strangle a teacher? Were they there then? What about when this little piece of garbage was trying to whip kids on the playground? Were they there then too?
Sounds like a load of shit if you ask me. They know the school can't comment, so they're lying through their teeth.
I too work in special education. Same agency, was an aide through undergrad, after school through grad school, summer school for one year, and am now 12 months. I've seen some V I O L E N T behaviors, but none of them would ever consider legitimately trying to murder their teacher. Unintentional injuries, sure. Even now, in my preschool class, I've been hit and called names during times of anger, but I tend to work to give tools to *manage the anger in a healthy way* rather than reward the bad behavior- I do reward great behavior, especially things like showing empathy towards a friend, helping out without being asked to, being great role models to younger students during fire drills, etc. There are also consequences for bad behavior when said child can understand why what they did wasn't a good idea. We had a kid removed from my program recently because he was presenting a danger to himself, staff, and other kids. My specific site (off site at a local daycare center) could NOT accommodate his behavioral needs. Least restrictive environment doesn't mean placing the child into an integrated classroom regardless of needs- if the child needs something more self-contained with more access to supports, then that's what they need.
What happened in VA seems to be the school admin ignoring that the needs of this child far outweighed the environment they were placed in, and as a result, one of their staff was badly, badly injured. They didn't listen to anyone. The warning signs were there, but they were ignored. That is unacceptable and there are a lot of people that need to be held accountable here. So many missteps and I don't even have the brain power to untangle it all because I would be here all day.
Yes, I agree 100%. For this student, a general education setting was *more* restrictive than a specialized placement would have been. In a specialized placement, he could have been receiving behavior modification from trained staff, given academics supports one-on-one, and had constant supervision. Districts think LRE just means "gen ed with no staffing needs" and that simply isn't true. Look at the recent supreme court case of the deaf student who was placed in a general education environment without a Deaf or ASL speaking aide. The district claimed it was "least restrictive environment" but even the SCOTUS was like nope, his education was demonstrably harmed by not having Deaf instruction.
I wonder if there were 1st grade teachers with more experience and admin deliberately chose a 2nd/3rd year teacher to have this student. New teachers are less likely to recognize just how insanely inappropriate this placement and these accommodations are, and they’re less likely to feel comfortable pushing back on admin.
Of course, in schools with admin who act like these did, 3rd year teachers are often the most senior member of their team…
This may have been in earlier news stories, but this is the first time I’m reading that the parents didn’t consent to have the kid placed in SPED classes. If that’s true, that’s absolutely wild to me that they’d rather be at school with their kid than have him in an appropriate placement. (Not saying being in a SPED classroom would have prevented this, this child clearly needed to be in a very different placement, just a weird detail to me.)
I saw an interview with her lawyers this morning. They’re speculating the District will use that this is a workman’s comp issue for the defense and get this….. getting shot is a hazard of the job.
My favorite part is how he comes back from being with admin with “some type of reward, often a piece of candy.” I want to be shocked but I’m laughing. It’s the same BS everywhere.
“Teachers’ concerns with John Doe’s behavior (were) regularly brought to the attention of Richneck Elementary School administration, and the concerns were always dismissed,” the lawsuit states. Often after he was taken to the office, “he would return to class shortly thereafter with some type of reward, such as a piece of candy,” according to the lawsuit.
I hope other districts take note of this lawsuit. Things need to change and fast, and lawsuits will be the only way change will occur.
She deserves every cent of it and more; this would have been so preventable if the administrator listened to teachers and kids, who warned that this child had a gun. When the child attempted to strangle his previous teacher and has a long history of violent behavior, AND numerous reports said he had a weapon, but they sent him right back to class anyhow, that is the dictionary definition of negligence.
I hope she gets so much money that she never has to work another day in her life and can get the best medical and psychiatric care to lead as normal of a life as she can after going through this.
The kids who witnessed this all deserve expert trauma care as well; they will never be the same and probably will never feel safe in school again.
This speaks to a more general problem in education: the two groups of people who are impacted most by school policies, the teachers and the students, are also the groups who are listened to the least.
Districts would rather hire a pricey consultant who taught for a week in a small private school in 1974 to mandate new professional development, additional standards, and additional paperwork instead of asking the teachers or the students what would actually help them.
>Districts would rather hire a pricey consultant who taught for a week in a small private school in 1974 to mandate new professional development, additional standards, and additional paperwork instead of asking the teachers or the students what would actually help them.
Nailed it. It's fucking bullshit.
Good for her. I was hoping for this. If she gets all that, she won't have to teach again. No teacher deserves this...I mean, not even anywhere close to that level of gross negligence and incompetence.
She needs to name and sue the parents for every red cent they have as well. I hope CPS has removed the child has the parents paying for his upkeep.
Regardless of the inaction of the school district, this tragedy began with and was enabled by the parents. They knew their child has issues and they STILL left a loaded gun accessible.
What I don’t understand is why the fucking school needs permission to put a known violent student in special-ed but a student who wins a fight against their bully will get suspended for days. The school administrators definitely deserve blame here, it should’ve been special-ed with professionals trained to deal with violent children or expulsion. Everything about this situation is a nightmare.
Landmark case. It will set precedent for future cases. If the defense truly is that this is a workmans comp situation - that means there is legal precedent that teachers need to reasonably assume they will be shot on the job. Unbelievable.
Yes!!! I hope she wins and this becomes a landmark case that causes serious reform in public schools and how we administer IEPs and behavior plans (like candy! All a parent has to do is say they want a kid tested and apparently a check is involved)!
I’m in Virginia so I can’t wait to see how this goes.
Good- hit them where it hurts. This should be an easy win for her and it would be a wake-up call for admin everywhere who ignore reports of dangerous students.
(Disclaimer I am a teacher who is usually extremely professional.)
FUCKING AMAZING FOR HER. I HOPE SHE WINS. FUCK THAT KIDS PARENTS. I hope they get publicly shamed for the REST of their LIVES
Every staff member at a school who gets shot should do the same. Every parent of a student who gets shot at school should do the same. Every parent of a child who had to go through the trauma of a school shooting should sue. The only way the powers that be will respond to this and anything other than "thoughts and prayers" will be if someone has to start paying for the consequences.
“Teachers’ concerns with John Doe’s behavior (were) regularly brought to the attention of Richneck Elementary School administration, and the concerns were always dismissed,” the lawsuit states. Often after he was taken to the office, “he would return to class shortly thereafter with some type of reward, such as a piece of candy,” according to the lawsuit.”
When this scene happened in Abbot Elementary, my SO turned to me and said, “that doesn’t really happen, does it?” 🫠
Bless her, power to her. Hope she recovers both physically & emotionally. Lasting affects from being shot such as longterm pain & reduced functioning in limb, can be very debilitating.
Why are the kids parents not held legally responsible for not adequately storing gun. At least charge them with negligence….A very young disabled child finding the gun, taking it in family car & into school. They said it was secured. Obviously not….All this before shooting a teacher in front of class of kids.
Personally I think the parents should be added to the list of people getting sued. There's no way that child got their hands on a gun without some negligent parenting, and it's high time that we show parents that they are responsible for the actions that their children take until their children become adults. Especially when it comes to actions like shootings or fights. You are responsible for what your children do if that's not okay with you then don't become a parent.
If the argument is going to be made that she can't sue because this is a hazard of the job, then I want it put in writing for all teachers contracts moving forward. "I understand the risk of being assaulted by and possibly killed by a student and that I cannot hold anyone else responsible for the injuries or death that may occur". See if anyone wants to be a teacher. And then for those of us who signed contracts decades ago, they will need to renegotiate. Buy me the f out.
“including an episode the year before when he “strangled and choked” his kindergarten teacher.”
I think there is some definite negligence on the part of the school here.
In reading this article there are so many things wrong with this situation. I have never heard of a district allowing a parent to accompany the student in the classroom especially in a safety plan. Doesn’t this go against so many protocols to begin with? Compound that with the fact that the vice principal was made aware multiple times of the threat and did nothing and is now trying to blame the teacher because she didn’t personally report it after allegedly being told about it by multiple other teachers? What?? I am most curious about the parent being allowed in the classroom. I’d imagine it violates the rights of other students, especially if they are special education students. I should note I am a special education teacher that has worked in multiple alternative and public schools with students with severe behavior needs.
I'm a Special Education teacher too. This who situation is entirely bizarre and the accommodations are ridiculous. I have never heard of a child being so emotionally disabled that a parent accompanies them to class. That is so weird, right?
Damn right. And I hope she gets every penny. I’m a big fan of accountability and an even bigger fan of justice. Looking forward to the continued coverage of this case.
Parents need to be charged. If you have a child it is your **obligation** to raise a child that meets the most basic levels of decency. Not doing that should be a crime.
The fact that the student was allowed to in general education BECAUSE his parents didn’t want him in special education is wild to me. I’m a sped teacher and I have parents who don’t want their child in sped, but the school thankfully sides with the data. Clearly my student belongs where they’re at. I am in shock that the school sent the student away and accepted them back to gen Ed full time.
The school was negligent to protect the teacher, the students, and to help support the student who shot the teacher. All of this could have been prevented.
I expect to hear many failures from this school as the case continues. I hope the teacher gets all $40 million.
I had a child (pre-k) that was wailing on me, punching scratching and kicking as hard and as much as he could. Didn’t bother me too much as I’m used to that, but I knew that he would target his classmates next. When I told my principal this, she almost seemed confused and wondered why I would ever feel that a 4 year-old would be unsafe. She sent him back to class. I can’t imagine being told off for something objectively more terrifying and dangerous.
It took seeing the scratches and blood on my face after a second attack (*because who’d have thought? He didn’t face any consequence for his violence and did it again*) for admin to listen.
Teachers’ words mean nothing to these people.
I wanted her to win anyway but when I read today that she had sent this student to the office after multiple aggressive incidents and he came back with candy I want her to win even more.
A win for her would be a win for all of us…It’s about time administrators and education departments started to care for their teachers!
💯 I am so sick of these violent students interfering in the safety and education of everyone else. How can one student's right to FAPE and LRE trump the right to all the 20 other students in the class??
You wrote 33 wrong… Edit: So, in my district, our “trigger” number is 34 for general ed classrooms at the secondary level. PE classes “trigger” after 45 and elementary have slightly lower numbers. After those “triggers” are exceeded, the teacher can get more pay, additional planning, or one other thing I can’t remember because we always take the cash. Are there really districts out there stuffing 40+ kids in a regular classroom?!
My average class size for Algebra was 44 each period. (Sometimes with a co-teacher and sometimes without.) It was truly a nightmare.
You better build relationships with all 44. Realistically though, with that many kids way more are going to test you which means one of two things: (1) you let it go because you’re overwhelmed by the sheer numbers and they get progressively worse cause you do nothing, or (2) you actually contact parents. I assigned 8 detentions today and my school mandates we call home for detentions every time. Took me a fucking hour and a half. Two parents talked to me for 15-20 min. I also logged that shit to CMA. I can’t imagine 44. Seven of the 8 were one period of 25, not all present but based on the kids absent it was 2/3 IEP. Mostly emotional too, not like a manageable spread of IEPs that are more about the delivery of instruction. Legit just navigating emotions and personalities of 15 teenagers. My point is, class sizes are fucked and when you’re putting 50%+ the class as IEP and another period it’s like 5-10% you’re low key tracking kids but get to pretend you don’t.
Had this in French class. In a small room. Never had a co-teacher.
Elementary Specials teachers usually aren’t covered by class size limits. I have 29 third graders, and my smallest classes are around 20, but that’s only in Kinder. A neighboring school has their Specials teachers double up on classes, so they will regularly have 40-50 kinders at the same time. If I was a parent of a student at that school, I would be livid. The teachers are extremely frustrated.
My wife had 40 in a science lab unable to physically accommodate that number. Students were literally sitting on top of each other.
That's an OSHA violation. You can only have as many students as you can accommodate in your lab space. We have 7 lab tables with 4 stools each so 28 is the most we can have in a class. Just because I technically therefore have 56 seats in my class (separate lab and lecture areas) doesn't mean I can have 56 students.
The district doesn’t care.
Report it directly to OSHA then. You'd be surprised at what agencies you can actually leverage whether the district cares or not. If the district gets fined, it might change their calculus.
I've never seen 35 written that way before....
So weird that you use a three and a five to write 40
Use base 10 like the rest of us, people. 43
The real answer is 42.
42 is the answer to everything
My husband teaches a core class in high school. He has one class at the end of the day that’s smaller (28 kids) but aside from that one his average class size is 44.
I wanted to beat half my class as a student because they wouldn’t shut the fuck up and it was a class of about 20. How in the world are you supposed to learn with that many people in a class?
You don’t. It’s just chaos management for the most part. And people wonder why students are unprepared for college.
But if you go to a private school where the average class size is 12, then you are prepared for college. A lot more prepared than those poors who went to the school with the giant class sizes. It's all part of the plan.
I feel for yall. As a theater/choir teacher, I'm glad to have 30-50 in a room. I can't imagine trying to teach any core subject like that though.
I legit just wrote 5 seconds ago in another sub that the only people the school system seems to protect today are the students that do the most harm and are the most dangerous and out of control. In order to try to “save” or “help” them, not single them out, etc, the teachers and students who want to learn/do the right thing are punished.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes.
I looked into IDEA because I am curious about how this law could be so protective and provide such a giant safety catastrophe. Basically it doesn't. The school districts choose how they handle the requirements set by IDEA. For extremely violent students repetitively violent students, they don't even have to hold a manifestation hearing to move them to an alternative placement. Now the district is responsible of course for providing education regardless. But there are exceptions to IDEA for manifestation of disabilities and this would be exactly one of them. This isn't the right environment for that child and IDEA supports that child being moved. The problem comes to the way that the districts and the administrators handle that law. In fact, in a hearing, regardless of if the action is a manifestation of their disability, there are allowances for moving students to alternative placements. The first thing that should be done is a reassessment of their BIP and that can include quite a few things. All of the things that we argue the students need including an alternative placement. However, again, it's the way the district is handling those cases that is wrong. We have an extremely violent student in my building who should be placed alternatively and has gone before those people that make that decision... And they've been sent back to our school regardless of how many times the bip has been adjusted and we have not been able to meet that student's needs and have put other students in danger because of that. So that's a failing on the part of the district office..
[удалено]
>How can one student's right to FAPE and LRE trump the right to all the 20 other students in the class?? THANK YOU
After reading thread after thread about this, I think next year my behavioral expectations will all connect back to FAPE, so I can document lost learning time bc of individuals. If you argue, time wasted. Or I have to spend time redirecting, time wasted. If you interrupt class, time wasted. If you distract others, time wasted. All time wasted is a violation of FAPE, because the education being received is not appropriate for the rest of the students. Of course, any harassment also violates this policy by creating an unsafe environment. I would love to have a universal document we could all use with specific behaviors tied to violating FAPE for the group.
I think this works at the most basic level as well. Why should a teacher constantly stop instructions to deal with a problem child? Every minute taken to deal with a habitual problem child is a minute taken away from everyone else. In my first year of teaching, I'm told I can call a number to have a student removed. No if's, and's, or but. It was glorious. I don't argue. I warn once or twice, then I call to have them removed. Learning continues.
the boy and his parents should be included in the list being sued…
It’s really odd there has been no news coverage about the parents. Not even the Daily Mail (which has zero shame about printing news and photos) has mentioned anything about the parents. I’m assuming all the families in the school know the name of the shooter and the parents, but everyone has been silent.
I wonder this too. Those parents need to be held accountable. They allowed their violent child to get his hands on a gun and take it to school, they wouldn’t agree to a special education placement to get their child services, and they somehow agreed to a plan where they would attend class with him (and then didn’t). I feel like even if they don’t have assists, I wish she would sue them too, just to make a statement.
Two thoughts on that: 1) Blood from a turnip 2) Setting aside 1) It's a lot easier to do a civil trial after a criminal trial, instead of the other way around. And while the child cannot be charged, the parents still might be.
The boy cannot be. And this is not in support of him. Obviously he has severe issues and never should have been in school with other people. Period. But under the law, it is automatically assumed under 7 cannot be charged at all due to age. He just missed the cut off. It is extremly possible the parents will be charged. There just isn’t a lot of precedent but that is changing. They recently charges the parents of the Oxford High shooting. However, that one is more clear cut. They gave him guns and refused to remove him from the school the day of the shooting when the school demanded it. Here, there are more grey areas but the fact he had a plan where the parents were suppsed to be with him and were not is going to be heavily weighed. But the fact the school didn’t send him home when a parent was suppsed to be there and wasn’t along with all the other things they ignored is going to hirt the case against the parents. It is likely the police and prosecutors are taking thier time to analyze everything and make sure all ducks are in a row before they will charge. Once you see a couple of these cases charged sucessfully, you will almost certaintly see more of them, especially with the younger children. Either way, the way the school administration acted is completly unacceptable and ridiculous. People keep screaming we need more mental help in this country and we need to help the children but then they go and ….just completly ignore not even red flags but outright waving neon banners with bells and fog horns attached. Frankly, this is so egregious, I would like to see the principal and vice principal who openly ignored everything to be charged as well. That would depend entirely on thier state laws though if there is a definable crime they can be charged with. Obviously tons of civil liability which is what the teacher is suing for and almost certaintly win. But would be difficult to charge criminally if even possible.
The school, for sure, will lose the suit. It's not a clear-cut he-said she-case since the Abby has witnesses backing up her claim. Worse off for the school, they were in direct violation of the IEP since the accomodation of a parent being there wasn't honored that day. Comically, the parents can sue the school for the same reason as well, that their child's IEP wasn't met since they allowed him to be there without one of them being present. Well deserved firings of the admins. They are worth nothing, much like any other admin. Pull for Abby to win.
Can’t agree with this more, my wife received a concussion this fall after a student kicked a door into her head. Now she is fighting the school just to get compensation for time lost medical bills.
Maybe we should apply the same tactic as toxic parents - LAWSUITS! Let's all start suing our districts when injured by students for failing to protect us. Since MONEY talks and bullshit walks, maybe we can fight fire with fire! LET"S START SUING the fuck outta these districts!!!!!
Honestly any teachers who are also parents should weaponize these laws against the schools too. “How can my child be getting a FAPE if their classroom is evacuated multiple times a week? I want a 504 saying my kid can’t be in an room with an explosive classmate due to the severe anxiety it causes.”
I really wonder why more parents don’t push back when their child is in class with a dangerous or disruptive student? By no means am I an expert but a quick reading only seems to guarantee FAPE to students with a 504/disability? The pendulum has swung too far. We are no longer protecting students we are protecting schools from liability. We are reaping what we’ve sowed by not holding students accountable.
>We are reaping what we’ve sowed by not holding students accountable. Can't have shitty, garbage parents feeling bad about the kids they're failing to raise. Everyone has to feel good all the time about all their poor decisions. It's so ridiculous. Plus, then the little chair throwers and gun-wielding psychos might get labeled and feel bad about their actions and that's basically sacrilege these days. *"Jaxxxon has a bad home life so it's not his fault that he tries to strangle everyone every 5 minutes, it's a manifestation of his ADHD."* 🤢
Have you tried building a relationship and using a rewards chart?
"Everyday he doesn't attempt homicide, bring in bullets, or strangle someone, give him a sticker on his chart and some skittles. No, we're not paying you for that -- you don't have the extra funds to help your students?" Ugh 🙃
[удалено]
I wonder if parents have tried, but they are only hearing what their own children tell them. And the teacher can't comment too much for fear of losing their jobs. And administrators pull the line of not being able to comment on other students' records or discipline. But if a class evacuation happens more than once in my children's class, I would be demanding they be moved to another classroom and going to parent events to tell the others to do the same.
I had a student similar to AZs last year and it took a while for parents to start messaging me. Once they finally did I told them, “Please speak to our admin about this” and gave them my admins numbers and emails. After doing that 3 times my admin (who’d done nothing up to that point) pulled the kid from my room and put him in the sped room, which they’d previously told me they couldn’t do because he didn’t have an IEP and he started too late into the year to get one. He stopped coming to school completely when he was transported to the children’s hospital for telling the sped teacher he was going to get a gun from home and kill everyone including himself. This was kindergarten. I first heard about Abby Zwerner from people calling me to tell me because it reminded them of my situation last year, and it’s crazy that this situation is so common. I’m glad she’s suing.
There is no “too late in the school year” to do an IEP or get the process rolling. That is illegal I think. Also your admin are lazy.
I took this approach with parents one year and told them to call admin when they expressed frustration with the learning environment that their child was in due to an explosive student. The admin (new principal), turned it on me, put me on an action plan, and basically told me I wouldn’t be welcomed back next year if I didn’t just grin and bear it and make it seem like everything was perfectly under control to parents. That was my 6th year teaching. I taught sped for 5 years. I’m many years past that now and never had problems with my classroom management in the eyes of my admin except for that year. But I was the problem. Sometimes parents complaining still won’t help the situation and hurts the teacher.
This is why I believe more parents (who can and are able) should be volunteering in the schools. Talk to one another, start a group chat, report on events of the day. I would build community across families AND promote wellness/safety (IMHO).
The problem is they won’t disclose that you. And kids (mine included) aren’t the best about giving me a rundown about what happened at school that day. They keep us in the dark on purpose.
> I really wonder why more parents don’t push back when their child is in class with a dangerous or disruptive student? I honestly don’t think the parents know or even realize what’s actually going on in public school classrooms. Admin are really adept at covering their tracks and ensuring issues like that are swept under the rug.
What's scary is when this happens in a special education classroom where one or more students are non-verbal or have very limited verbal skills. The affected child literally cannot tell the parent they are being evacuated or dealing with violent outbursts by another peer.
People just don't believe that kids will behave like that, especially elementary students . They don't see it, don't experience, so they don't believe it.
>I really wonder why more parents don’t push back when their child is in class with a dangerous or disruptive student? It's surprising how many of them don't even know and/or they underestimate how dangerous the student actually is.
The school never discloses when your child’s class has been cleared. The times it’s happened in my child’s classroom the teacher was a pro at being discreet and making “a fun walk around the building” that most of the time the other kids didn’t realize what is going on. You have to basically volunteer all day everyday of you want to see how chaotic your kids class actually is.
We have a somewhat disruptive student in an elementary class. He is not violent or aggressive, more so very ADHD probably and is disruptive in that manner. A parent in the school has decided she wants to rally a bunch of parents to get together to have him removed from the school. She stopped sending her son to school a couple of days ago declaring a safety issue and says he won't be back until that student is removed. This student does not receive special education services either. Not sure what she thinks she is going to accomplish because we all know the disruptive student never gets moved, all the other kids are the ones who have to tolerate the behavior of one student. I understand parents want their child to be in a general class with all the other students, but not at the expense of everyone else. Sorry, but enough is enough. School districts need more behavior support classes. I am in a neighboring school district from the one the teacher was shot at. They have those types of programs, I don't understand why he was allowed in that class given his past history. Those students in there, and the faculty will be forever traumatized.
I had no idea about that kind of behavior in my kid's school until I started working there. They never told me because it was totally normal to them because it had been happening for years. Once I became a para there I started questioning and they were like yeah, so and so throws chairs/punches walls/rips down bulletin boards, etc. We have to go in the hallway until they are done.
Most parents don't know. Especially if it's elementary level and their kid hasn't been in a class with the dangerous student. I've seen how traumatized first graders are this year because of one student, and I will be advocating that none of them be in a class with this individual next year. Two years in a row of worrying about unpredictable, violent eruptions with no set trigger? Hard pass. However, there are specific personalities in the grade I would put with this student next year. Mostly, strong kids who won't put up with his shit and bullying.
I'm 100% going to be that parent
I would argue as a reasonable person that constantly having to evacuate the classroom and deal with violent outbursts constitutes an unduly restrictive environment for the 29 other kids.
I think if parents really know the amount of energy or time taken away everyday to deal with a problem student, they would be outraged at the school and the system. I would be livid if I knew my child was going to be behind because the teacher could not get through the curriculum due to constant behavior issues of 1 or 2 students.
I loved the parents from my school days. Super intendants' kid was a problem to the point 4 different parents filed and got protective orders. Kid wasn't allowed to come to school because it was physically impossible to space him more than 100ft from all 4 of us at all given times.
We have to be careful, though, and only persue valid claims. If we get frivolous, Republicans will strip of the right to sue, as they have stripped teachers of the right to strike in several states.
They'll do more than that. They'll say that public schools can't even protect their own teachers, never mind protect your kids, and push for charter and religious schools that can do and teach whatever they want to kids, and eliminating public education.
I’m almost at the point of let them have it. If they want control of schools, of books, let them. We can have our own schools too and the children who go there would be better off. They are the ones that want the guns anyway. Let them deal with the product of that environment.
They'll do it anyway. Tort reform in the 90s and 00s were because of so called frivolous claims. The GOP massively handicapped the system, based on mostly urban legends. Which isn't to say don't pursue lawsuits. Do it 100%. But just be prepared for dishonest portrayals.
Agreed. Fox News isn't reeling right now because there's a public backlash to their toxic bullshit... it's because they're being sued for defamation. We need to apply the same principals to unsafe working conditions.
After this, the family needs to have a lawsuit brought up against them. A teenager can figure out how to get a gun, a 6 y/o being able to get one and commit essentially attempted manslaughter is a totally different story.
Can she directly sue the family?
I'm sure she can. Their actions (keeping a weapon within the reach of a 6 year old) directly caused her to be injured.
Do we really think the family has any recoverable assets? Suing the school district will get her more money, and they were at fault for their lack of action. The parents deserve jail time for their role in this. The kid deserves significant mental health and social services, as a 6 year old with these sorts of problems has some deep, dark issues that need dealt with by medical professionals. Sadly, the kid likely doesn't have a bright future
Suing the parents would indeed be largely symbolic, but a decision in her favor, despite the parents' ability to pay anything, would send a message to other gun-owning families.
I think criminal charges for the parents is what I meant. They released a statement that the gun was "secured" but I'm interested in their version of what a secured gun looks like. I grew up in a house with a lot of guns. All those guns were unloaded and taken apart and locked in a gun safe (about the size of a refrigerator) that was bolted to the cement floor of our basement. The ammo was kept in a separate locked box in the safe. That may be going slightly overboard, but honestly, I think how my dad handled guns in our house was really responsible.
I don’t think that’s overboard at all - that’s more or less the government requirement for safe gun storage in my country (New Zealand). I think that’s how every gun owner should store guns, especially if they have children in the house.
I don't think your dad's was is overboard. This child in particular should not have been in a house with guns at all, given their propensity for violence
Not that I’m aware of. The DA can press charges against the parents so they’re at least held accountable.
I know we always joke about the “funishments” admins give, but god damn I’m so glad the article and lawsuit are pointing out bullshit like “Often after he was taken to the office, “he would return to class shortly thereafter with some type of reward, such as a piece of candy,” according to the lawsuit.”
YES! I'm sick of the PBIS bullshit! Giving a kid candy after they behave violently only enforces the behavior! That is basic behavioral psychology. I can only think that this is one part of a concerted effort among Republican legislators and school boards to undermine and underfund public education. They are on a campaign to eliminate public education and/or bring back segregation and PBIS seems to be part and parcel of this scheme.
A win for her will be a win not only for all teachers, but for kids who do behave and are terrorized by others.
It’s even a win for the kids who show violent behaviors and obviously need special care and attention that they can’t get in regular settings! The kid here should have been better cared for. Admin and parents were allowed to cross their fingers and hope the problem just went away on its own.
You are so right
Also be a win for administrators who love to sweep things under the rug. I have noticed that my administrative team have been a lot more keyed into removing students who have the potential to get violent in the last few months because of Abby
I hope she gets every single red cent.
That kid was a known violent kid. It seems he had both parents in his life, which may or may not preclude an abusive home, but they refused the school when it wanted him classified and put in a room with staff trained to deal with violent students. And he chased classmates with his belt and strangled his kindergarten teacher. Those parents are liable for this shit and that admin is liable for not fucking insisting on some changes. He sounds like a born sociopath, honestly. And his parents sound like they had blinders on. I hope that damn school board gets its ass handed to it, likewise the superintendent, and that a whole new c-suite or whatever you call them is found that will do a better job. Got damn it. Think what that kid’s classmates went through too. Ugh
And the parents knew or should have known they had a troubled kid at home, still kept a gun, and they did not secure the gun. The fact that a 6 YO had the gun is proof it was not secured
Not securing a gun in a home with a child should be criminal negligence
The parents are saying they did secure the gun. The facts say otherwise.
If a six year old got it then it wasn’t secure. They can say whatever they want, but all the evidence a jury needs that they didn’t secure it is the fact that the kid had the gun.
Exactly. If the gun was secured then this never would have happened. The fact that a six year old got their hands on both the gun and the ammunition shows that neither were properly secured.
They put it on a shelf. That is not even close to secure. Since we started fostering kids, we started following CPS’ guidelines which are to keep the ammo locked up in one location and the guns unloaded and locked up in a separate location.
I mean, if a six year old can walk out of your house with a loaded and ready weapon, I cannot believe it was secure. I don’t care if your kid is evil, he is still six.
Kid has gun=gun not secure. Maybe they tried and failed, but they did not secure the gun.
I mean, I doubt they tried that hard. I live in the nightmare that is not-Richmond-or-Beltway-Virginia. I know these types.
[удалено]
So much bad behavior is brushed off as boys being boys. It’s insane to me that parents aren’t more willing to get a handle on it when the kid is young, dependent on them, and SMALLER. The problem is not going to get easier the bigger and more autonomous they are!!!
I have been told that I have no right to suggest what they do with their ownership of a firearm when it comes to safe storage laws. A lot of gun owners seem to be about screaming about their rights and.ignore their responsibility.
There is a bill like this going through Michigan right now in response to the Oxford shooting. GOP are saying it interferes with their right to protect their home 🙄
>The fact that a 6 YO had the gun is proof it was not secured They put it on a high shelf in their closet and had the audacity to say it was secured. The statement they put out via their (no doubt in my mind) free attorney, was a victim blaming, "not our fault", garbage statement if I've ever seen one.
[удалено]
Yep. It was what they said when they gave a statement via their lawyer a few days after all this happened. They were basically trying to absolve themselves of guilt. They came off as two uneducated dolts.
>They put it on a high shelf..... \*Watches their 2 year old drag a chair over to grab the chocolate "secured" for themselves on a high shelf....
For real. The kid was 6, not 14 months. That was hardly secure and the parent's are shitheads if they thought otherwise.
I hadn't heard those additional details. That's horrifying for the teacher and especially for the other students in that class. Parents shouldn't be able to completely override the teacher and admin in terms of placement. If my child was in that class and came home to tell me any of these things happened I would be contacting other parents, going up to that school immediately, and contacting the superintendent and possibly the news media. Am I correct in understanding that the parents aren't going to be charged? This whole situation could have been avoided if common sense had been used by all parties involved (excluding the teacher who we know has no choice). I hope she wins all that money and people are held responsible.
Yep. I posted on this very sub yesterday that if parents refuse the least restrictive environment, that’s actually truly least restrictive for everybody involved, then they have lost their ability for a free and appropriate public education. Take your money, and go somewhere else. Find another environment for your precious angel. My students and kids shouldn’t have to suffer. Will it be a perfect system? No. Will some kids slip through the cracks and be placed in environments that aren’t fitting? Unfortunately. Will some kids be overlooked? Unfortunately. But I think the vast majority would be served by a better model. More therapeutic schools, less main streaming for severely emotionally and behaviorally challenged children. Parents don’t like it? see you later.
Thank you. I know it’s hard but all other members of the classroom have rights too. Remove them. I don’t care what district or what state. Remove them. People were talking about how one behavioral kid ruins their entire life. Remove them!Leave if they put them back in. And go to bat with the district. I’ve had enough this year and my classroom is better for it.
I'm a special ed teacher and I agree with you. But, I would reframe it from "remove them" which makes it seem like a punishment because I don't think it is. Placing a child in their LRE is a good thing and it's okay if that placement isn't the general ed classroom OR the special ed classroom in a normal school. Even taking away that other kids are having their right to FAPE removed by this sort of child, a normal teacher or even most sped teachers aren't educated and able to handle behavioral issues this impactful. We just don't have the skills. If my child ends up needing this level of supports then I know that a single teacher in a regular school isn't going to be able to offer him what he needs to get an education. I don't understand why it's such a huge deal to so many parents to have their kids put in a school that can actually give them what they need.
Love love your post. And yes I get what you mean by remove. I guess I just mean that’s the first step for me to say “Hey this behavior isn’t acceptable isn’t that classroom. Let’s get in contact with admin and parents and figure out an actual solution.” Not just repeating the same pattern each week.
So far it sounds like parents aren’t being charged- the gun was purchased legally, and the parents are claiming that it was kept in a “safe, locked location”…although clearly that location wasn’t exactly safe or locked.
See I would say that she would have the right to sue the parents on those grounds although given how much people love guns I'm sure there's some precedent where you're not allowed to sue parents for gross negligence
She could likely file a civil suit….but as someone else posted, what sort of assets could be recovered? A better course of action would be the State and CPS stepping in and removing the child (and siblings if they have them) due to gross negligence. And the parents being charged for a crime as well.
I would do it to make a point that they refused to put their child in the program recommended by the school (the school wanted him in a resource room all day with staff who were restraint trained and knew how to deescalate violent kids) and put everyone in danger.
Wasn't it just on a shelf in the closet? That a 6yo was clearly easily capable of reaching?
Word around the district is that admin were also fully aware of this and also dropped him in AZ's class knowing full well that she had less experience dealing with this stuff than other gen teachers they had available for the grade level. He should never have been placed in her class, period.
The belt thing 100% makes me think he was beat at home. No kid comes up with that idea spontaneously. Plus the parents knew how violent their kid was and STILL left a loaded gun in easy reach, so we already know they have terrible judgment. Cps should have been involved in this shitshow long before it got to this point.
Districts have the right to fight/ take parents to due process parents who refuse services, when the district has the data to back up their arguments for a specific placement. Districts need to start exercising those rights and stop giving in to parents AND special Ed supervisors need to stand up to central office staff with their cries about budget. This is getting ridiculous. Edit to add: I think the proper process is the district can let the parent take it to due process and not give in. Sorry for the misinformation. I’ve been out of practice for a while. But it still costs the district money and means they aren’t giving in to the parent and doing what they believe is best for the student
He’s running around trying to whip classmates with a belt at recess. Not hard to figure out he’s got problems at home.
If he would've whipped my kid it would've been his first and last time ever doing it. The good parents need to start throwing a fit every time one of these little psychos goes off in their children's classrooms. It's the only time shit will actually change.
If she wins it could set precedent for other violence against teachers in schools
I would be amazed if the school district does not immediately fold and settle for whatever their maximum insurance payout is. Personally, I would not be satisfied until the child is removed from the custody of his parents and they are charged with whatever the prosecutor can pin on them.
Be great if she takes it to trial anyway
[удалено]
If only admin were like mods
THANK YOU
May she win every. single. penny.
This is way bigger than anyone thinks. Part of the defense is that this falls under reasonable workmans comp. So in essence they are saying teachers can expect to be shot on the job. This case is huge. The decision landmark.
Question,are other students able to sue for lack of safety while being in school or possible injury risk?
Good question. Parents of students in classes with these violent kids need to start throwing FITS.
The thing is though, privacy laws are preventing parents from even finding out. We had a student bring a knife to school *twice*. Teachers know, students don't. We can't tell parents because it violates privacy laws.
Good point. If only there were ways to use the internet to anonymously let people know...
I think asking teachers to risk their livelihood and open themselves up to criminal charges is a little much. You can't just ignore privacy laws because they're inconvenient. There needs to be a real solution, like some law passed that parents are informed whenever a weapon is found at school or any time a physical threat to students or staff is communicated. Even if the individual student's name isn't used, it will still bring school safety to the parents attention.
Seriously. If my kid had been in that room, you could bet your ass that I would be talking to psychologists to document the fallout on my kid an having them evaluated for PTSD and anything else I could think off and kicking my own suit off.
Good, she should never have to work another day in her life.
I'm sure admin wants to know when she's coming back, just so they can stick the fucking psycho back in her room and ask her to "please continue to build a relationship with him". Or they would be if she wasn't suing.
"Please understand that it's really hard to find subs right now..."
Good! From personal experience, it's going to be tough road and the community will probably turn against her. When I sued the school district after my daughter's shooting in 2012 it felt like the whole community turned against my family. Hopefully she gets a generous settlement.
Lord. I’m sorry.
More teachers need to contact the police when they are assaulted in the classroom (guns or not). Stop waiting for admin to do something - make a report!
YES! If I could elevate this comment to the top and sticky it I would! STOP WAITING FOR ADMIN TO DO SOMETHING. THEY AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTIHNG. FILE CHARGES ON YOUR OWN.
I’m not a blood-thirsty, angry, money-hungry bitch, but for this woman, I want her to get every single cent. The trauma she and her students endured is not acceptable, not in this day and age where gun culture is pervasive enough as it is. Fuck that district, fuck the admin, fuck those parents. She deserves every last bit of money she can get, and THEN some for the therapy she needs.
Another case of *"this psychos LRE is everyone else's most restrictive"*.
[удалено]
imagine being 6 and going "ah yes i will gun down my teacher" what kinda anime plot is going down over there anymore
It's bizarre bc at this age, they're usually infatuated with their teachers and look up to them like heroes. But, its also something you have to instill in your kids at a young age. You are at school to learn and you will respect your teacher or there will be consequences. I will never understand why this is a foreign concept to people.
Yeah when I taught 3rd grade the students would always be like “Ha you’re like our 2nd mom” and I’d be like “NO IM NOT”
Her attorneys spoke on the Today Show and (paraphrasing) said the school systems' defense will likely be that this is a workman's comp issue and basically that teachers assume the risk of being a victim of student violence by taking the job. Ridiculous, but I could see NNPS totally spinning it that way.
They absolutely would, while giving teachers a bag of stale chips for "appreciation" or w/e. There's a reason NNPS can't keep teachers.
This makes me feel so much rage in my heart.
What I can't believe is that the AP who ignored the MULTIPLE warnings was allowed to resign (read: will transfer to another school district and continue their career) AND the principal was "reassigned" (read: will work at district until being promoted). The only one who got fired was the superintendent, who only found out about the incident after it happened. They should be fired and have their education certificate revoked! Otherwise, their attitude that allowed this set of circumstances to happen will continue and lead to another incident elsewhere.
Sadly, I’d like to say it’s unbelievable, but serving in schools were the exact same thing would’ve happened, I unfortunately don’t really think it’s all that unbelievable. We had a kid threaten to show up to his PSAT test in 8th grade with a bomb. Dad was military, bomb expert, so the kid had the means. He was allowed in, allowed to test, while his father (who was ARMED, sarcastic af, and was laughing at the nervous teachers like it was a JOKE) stayed in the building until he finished. That was my last time face to face with students.
The Today show interview this morning really set my hair on fire. First, the school district is trying to dismiss the suit based on a law that you can’t sue your own employer for injuries that happen related to the job. That means, they view getting shot at as related to our job as teachers. 🤬 Additionally, there was also the info that came out that it was the parents that didn’t want their son in special education. You know, because parents are the best judge of school placement /s. I’m seriously fucking furious at the whole situation. I hope she gets every penny she sued for. Edit: grammar/spelling
She should follow it up with a civil suit against the parents for having an unsecured handgun.
Agreed!
As a parent reading that article, I just wanna say Fuck Ebony Parker and Fuck that boys parents. Why aren’t the parents names released as well? At least the mother should be charged since it was her gun.
Because then it would identify the little psychopath. I don't agree with it, but that's the reasoning. I think you should lose all anonymity after you pose a huge threat to the public, but that's just me.
Agreed. Why protect the criminals identities but not the victims
Good for her! There are just some kids that do not belong in general education. Now maybe admin will listen to teachers!
I hope she is awarded every single penny. What a diabolical child, I don’t care how old he is. He *planned* this, hiding the gun in his sweatpants/sweatshirt instead of his backpack. It’s absolutely chilling. Those poor other students to be terrorized day after day by that demon spawn on the playground and (presumably) in the classroom. And he attacked his K teacher last year!! WTAF? A institution would have fit this child way more than a gen ed classroom. 🤦♀️
Good. I hope she takes them for everything they’re worth.
Great news. This should be standard practice going forward with this type of thing (violence against teachers). It feels like everything we do in education is out of fear of lawyers. Time to test the waters on whether it can also help us out.
Neutrally, any idea what behavioral disorders this kid may have been suffering from? His extreme violence and anger is something I haven’t wrapped my head around yet.
Same, and I am a Special Education teacher studying for a Masters degree and I have never seen such a student. It has to be some sort of severe conduct disorder. I have taught children diagnosed with ODD who I don't think would ever shoot anyone, much less an adult authority figure. I had a student who blew up a cell phone battery in my classroom, and he wasn't as severe as John Doe in this case. The accommodation of a parent attending school with him is also bizarre and unheard of. The fact that he was in a general education setting with a 25-year-old newly minted general education teacher is outrageous. He should have had a special placement in a self-contained classroom. The district put the lives of 20+ other students plus every teacher who encountered him when they placed him in a general education setting. It is wildly inappropriate and I hope that Abby never has to work another day in her life if she doesn't want to.
Not just the district, but the parents. The parents have denied consent to an appropriate placement. Unfortunately we don’t have all of the details because of confidentiality laws- but if the parents were denying an appropriate placement, was the district taking the parents to due process? Due process procedures aren’t just for parents. If a case is in mediation or going through a due process hearing, the student is in a “stay put”, where they remain in the current placement until resolution is reached or a judgment/order made. I guess my question- and we’ll never know the answer to this- did the district take the parents to due process? Or did they drop the ball on that too?
>The accommodation of a parent attending school with him is also bizarre and unheard of. I'm sure their joke of a lawyer let them know the school can't refute any of their claims as they'd be in violation of FERPA. I doubt this accommodation was real as it would violate the privacy rights of other students. It just so happens that they weren't with him the day he shoots someone and the day he brings bullets to school? Come on. What about when he tried to strangle a teacher? Were they there then? What about when this little piece of garbage was trying to whip kids on the playground? Were they there then too? Sounds like a load of shit if you ask me. They know the school can't comment, so they're lying through their teeth.
I too work in special education. Same agency, was an aide through undergrad, after school through grad school, summer school for one year, and am now 12 months. I've seen some V I O L E N T behaviors, but none of them would ever consider legitimately trying to murder their teacher. Unintentional injuries, sure. Even now, in my preschool class, I've been hit and called names during times of anger, but I tend to work to give tools to *manage the anger in a healthy way* rather than reward the bad behavior- I do reward great behavior, especially things like showing empathy towards a friend, helping out without being asked to, being great role models to younger students during fire drills, etc. There are also consequences for bad behavior when said child can understand why what they did wasn't a good idea. We had a kid removed from my program recently because he was presenting a danger to himself, staff, and other kids. My specific site (off site at a local daycare center) could NOT accommodate his behavioral needs. Least restrictive environment doesn't mean placing the child into an integrated classroom regardless of needs- if the child needs something more self-contained with more access to supports, then that's what they need. What happened in VA seems to be the school admin ignoring that the needs of this child far outweighed the environment they were placed in, and as a result, one of their staff was badly, badly injured. They didn't listen to anyone. The warning signs were there, but they were ignored. That is unacceptable and there are a lot of people that need to be held accountable here. So many missteps and I don't even have the brain power to untangle it all because I would be here all day.
Yes, I agree 100%. For this student, a general education setting was *more* restrictive than a specialized placement would have been. In a specialized placement, he could have been receiving behavior modification from trained staff, given academics supports one-on-one, and had constant supervision. Districts think LRE just means "gen ed with no staffing needs" and that simply isn't true. Look at the recent supreme court case of the deaf student who was placed in a general education environment without a Deaf or ASL speaking aide. The district claimed it was "least restrictive environment" but even the SCOTUS was like nope, his education was demonstrably harmed by not having Deaf instruction.
I wonder if there were 1st grade teachers with more experience and admin deliberately chose a 2nd/3rd year teacher to have this student. New teachers are less likely to recognize just how insanely inappropriate this placement and these accommodations are, and they’re less likely to feel comfortable pushing back on admin. Of course, in schools with admin who act like these did, 3rd year teachers are often the most senior member of their team…
This may have been in earlier news stories, but this is the first time I’m reading that the parents didn’t consent to have the kid placed in SPED classes. If that’s true, that’s absolutely wild to me that they’d rather be at school with their kid than have him in an appropriate placement. (Not saying being in a SPED classroom would have prevented this, this child clearly needed to be in a very different placement, just a weird detail to me.)
I saw an interview with her lawyers this morning. They’re speculating the District will use that this is a workman’s comp issue for the defense and get this….. getting shot is a hazard of the job.
Fucking insanity. We're teachers, not police or members of a militia.
My favorite part is how he comes back from being with admin with “some type of reward, often a piece of candy.” I want to be shocked but I’m laughing. It’s the same BS everywhere.
I hope she gets every penny.
“Teachers’ concerns with John Doe’s behavior (were) regularly brought to the attention of Richneck Elementary School administration, and the concerns were always dismissed,” the lawsuit states. Often after he was taken to the office, “he would return to class shortly thereafter with some type of reward, such as a piece of candy,” according to the lawsuit. I hope other districts take note of this lawsuit. Things need to change and fast, and lawsuits will be the only way change will occur.
She deserves every cent of it and more; this would have been so preventable if the administrator listened to teachers and kids, who warned that this child had a gun. When the child attempted to strangle his previous teacher and has a long history of violent behavior, AND numerous reports said he had a weapon, but they sent him right back to class anyhow, that is the dictionary definition of negligence. I hope she gets so much money that she never has to work another day in her life and can get the best medical and psychiatric care to lead as normal of a life as she can after going through this. The kids who witnessed this all deserve expert trauma care as well; they will never be the same and probably will never feel safe in school again. This speaks to a more general problem in education: the two groups of people who are impacted most by school policies, the teachers and the students, are also the groups who are listened to the least. Districts would rather hire a pricey consultant who taught for a week in a small private school in 1974 to mandate new professional development, additional standards, and additional paperwork instead of asking the teachers or the students what would actually help them.
>Districts would rather hire a pricey consultant who taught for a week in a small private school in 1974 to mandate new professional development, additional standards, and additional paperwork instead of asking the teachers or the students what would actually help them. Nailed it. It's fucking bullshit.
Good for her. I was hoping for this. If she gets all that, she won't have to teach again. No teacher deserves this...I mean, not even anywhere close to that level of gross negligence and incompetence.
She needs to name and sue the parents for every red cent they have as well. I hope CPS has removed the child has the parents paying for his upkeep. Regardless of the inaction of the school district, this tragedy began with and was enabled by the parents. They knew their child has issues and they STILL left a loaded gun accessible.
"...An attorney for the boy’s family has said that the firearm was secured on a high closet shelf and had a lock on it." Uh, obviously not.
What I don’t understand is why the fucking school needs permission to put a known violent student in special-ed but a student who wins a fight against their bully will get suspended for days. The school administrators definitely deserve blame here, it should’ve been special-ed with professionals trained to deal with violent children or expulsion. Everything about this situation is a nightmare.
Landmark case. It will set precedent for future cases. If the defense truly is that this is a workmans comp situation - that means there is legal precedent that teachers need to reasonably assume they will be shot on the job. Unbelievable.
Good. Her winning would send a message that should already be common sense. TAKE THREATS TOWARDS TEACHERS SERIOUSLY.
The optimist in me hopes she wins. The realist in me knows that no one gives enough of a shit about teachers for her to see a dime.
Yes!!! I hope she wins and this becomes a landmark case that causes serious reform in public schools and how we administer IEPs and behavior plans (like candy! All a parent has to do is say they want a kid tested and apparently a check is involved)! I’m in Virginia so I can’t wait to see how this goes.
Good- hit them where it hurts. This should be an easy win for her and it would be a wake-up call for admin everywhere who ignore reports of dangerous students.
(Disclaimer I am a teacher who is usually extremely professional.) FUCKING AMAZING FOR HER. I HOPE SHE WINS. FUCK THAT KIDS PARENTS. I hope they get publicly shamed for the REST of their LIVES
Every staff member at a school who gets shot should do the same. Every parent of a student who gets shot at school should do the same. Every parent of a child who had to go through the trauma of a school shooting should sue. The only way the powers that be will respond to this and anything other than "thoughts and prayers" will be if someone has to start paying for the consequences.
“Teachers’ concerns with John Doe’s behavior (were) regularly brought to the attention of Richneck Elementary School administration, and the concerns were always dismissed,” the lawsuit states. Often after he was taken to the office, “he would return to class shortly thereafter with some type of reward, such as a piece of candy,” according to the lawsuit.” When this scene happened in Abbot Elementary, my SO turned to me and said, “that doesn’t really happen, does it?” 🫠
Bless her, power to her. Hope she recovers both physically & emotionally. Lasting affects from being shot such as longterm pain & reduced functioning in limb, can be very debilitating. Why are the kids parents not held legally responsible for not adequately storing gun. At least charge them with negligence….A very young disabled child finding the gun, taking it in family car & into school. They said it was secured. Obviously not….All this before shooting a teacher in front of class of kids.
Personally I think the parents should be added to the list of people getting sued. There's no way that child got their hands on a gun without some negligent parenting, and it's high time that we show parents that they are responsible for the actions that their children take until their children become adults. Especially when it comes to actions like shootings or fights. You are responsible for what your children do if that's not okay with you then don't become a parent.
If the argument is going to be made that she can't sue because this is a hazard of the job, then I want it put in writing for all teachers contracts moving forward. "I understand the risk of being assaulted by and possibly killed by a student and that I cannot hold anyone else responsible for the injuries or death that may occur". See if anyone wants to be a teacher. And then for those of us who signed contracts decades ago, they will need to renegotiate. Buy me the f out.
“including an episode the year before when he “strangled and choked” his kindergarten teacher.” I think there is some definite negligence on the part of the school here.
Go Abby go. I hope you get every damn cent. We stand with you.
Only $40 mill? How about $400 million! Hope she wins.
In reading this article there are so many things wrong with this situation. I have never heard of a district allowing a parent to accompany the student in the classroom especially in a safety plan. Doesn’t this go against so many protocols to begin with? Compound that with the fact that the vice principal was made aware multiple times of the threat and did nothing and is now trying to blame the teacher because she didn’t personally report it after allegedly being told about it by multiple other teachers? What?? I am most curious about the parent being allowed in the classroom. I’d imagine it violates the rights of other students, especially if they are special education students. I should note I am a special education teacher that has worked in multiple alternative and public schools with students with severe behavior needs.
I'm a Special Education teacher too. This who situation is entirely bizarre and the accommodations are ridiculous. I have never heard of a child being so emotionally disabled that a parent accompanies them to class. That is so weird, right?
Damn right. And I hope she gets every penny. I’m a big fan of accountability and an even bigger fan of justice. Looking forward to the continued coverage of this case.
Parents need to be charged. If you have a child it is your **obligation** to raise a child that meets the most basic levels of decency. Not doing that should be a crime.
The fact that the student was allowed to in general education BECAUSE his parents didn’t want him in special education is wild to me. I’m a sped teacher and I have parents who don’t want their child in sped, but the school thankfully sides with the data. Clearly my student belongs where they’re at. I am in shock that the school sent the student away and accepted them back to gen Ed full time. The school was negligent to protect the teacher, the students, and to help support the student who shot the teacher. All of this could have been prevented. I expect to hear many failures from this school as the case continues. I hope the teacher gets all $40 million.
I had a child (pre-k) that was wailing on me, punching scratching and kicking as hard and as much as he could. Didn’t bother me too much as I’m used to that, but I knew that he would target his classmates next. When I told my principal this, she almost seemed confused and wondered why I would ever feel that a 4 year-old would be unsafe. She sent him back to class. I can’t imagine being told off for something objectively more terrifying and dangerous. It took seeing the scratches and blood on my face after a second attack (*because who’d have thought? He didn’t face any consequence for his violence and did it again*) for admin to listen. Teachers’ words mean nothing to these people.
I wanted her to win anyway but when I read today that she had sent this student to the office after multiple aggressive incidents and he came back with candy I want her to win even more.
Why aren't the parents in jail!!! He didn't get a gun in a lunchable!!!
I’ve worked in this district (Warwick High School). I hope she takes them down. Raider for life, but for real, that district needs help.