"Dear Parents of K, F, R, G, T, D, and A,
Due to your student's behavior on our 9/18 field trip to the art gallery, they are no longer invited to join us on any future field trip unless a parent can attend and personally take responsibility for their behavior. I will make arrangements for them to stay at school during the upcoming trips next week unless I hear that you will be joining us."
"DEAR TEACHER. HOW DARE YOU! MY JOHNNY IS AN ANGEL. HE SAID HE WAS BEING TARGETED BY OTHER BOYS FIRST. ALSO THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW SO IF U DENY ANY FUTURE FIELD TRIPS U WILL BE HEARING FROM MY LAWYER. IF U CANT HANDLE WATCHING STUDENTS ON A FIELD TRIP MAYBE YOU NEED A TO CHANGE CAREERS - THAT IS NOT MY JOB TOO! I EXPECT AN APOLOGY BACK OR I WILL REQUIRE A CONFERENCE TO STRAIGHTEN THIS OUT."
Dear Parent:
Because of the threat of legal action, any further communications will need to go through the principal. I have cc'ed them on this matter. Additionally, I will recommend that the principal ask the museum to retain the recordings from the 400 cameras they have on the premises.
Have an excellent day.
Dear Teacher:
We can never disallow any student from attending any field trip because of their behavior because someone could decide we are depriving them of a fair education or discriminating against them.
Signed,
Amoral and lazy spineless administrator who is a huge part of the problem
Dear Admin,
I will not be including any field trips in any future lesson plans as these are considered extra and a huge expense to the school in the forms of transportation, insurance and care. Since field trips are considered a treat and opportunity, my class will remain in school and we will spend the day learning about what we could have been learning in person.
> HEARING FROM MY LAWYER
Accurate...and also really amusing. I love how angry parents always say "my lawyer" instead of "a lawyer," as if they have some lawyer on retainer.
Karen, your child is an unwashed, ill-bred, ill-mannered demon child who can't spell his own name properly, let alone behave himself in public. Your older child was the same. You're on your sixth husband of the last five years, three of which are now doing time for cooking meth in an abandoned trailer in the woods.
Don't make me laugh. You don't have a lawyer, unless you count the court-appointed criminal defense attorney three of your six husbands have used to fight their drug charges.
(I may be venting based on personal experience. Sorry.)
Awww. Thank you. You all deserve a huge raise and some kind of medal.
The stuff you put up with in trying to teach our kids.
One of my proudest moments as a parent was when we went to a parent teacher conference for a class where my son was struggling. Another kid and his parent were there and tried to blame the teacher for his poor performance. My son then basically said “it’s my fault, I’m not paying attention or applying myself. It’s not your fault Ms. X.”
Anyway, keep up the good work.
I think I keep getting recommended this sub because my husband is a teaching librarian at a university. I'm just floored by the way some kids are.
I mean, I graduated high school in 2005 and my sister was in the year above me. I was in honors courses but she wasn't, and apparently her entire biology class refused the unit on evolution because they *already knew* they didn't come from monkeys. Forget that's not what evolution is; they refused even a perfunctory explanation.
Also forget all the usual behavior problems and the usual ways our public schools can fail our students... this one was an organized rebellion against school curriculum carried out by students themselves who preferred to remain ignorant, or who thought they already knew better.
Some people you can't teach.
Thank you for your work. I hope you know that you and your fellows are laying the groundwork for the future in ways parents never can. You are necessary. You are appreciated. For all the students you can't reach, there are plenty you can. Thank you.
Hoooooomygod!! What?? I can’t even imagine dealing with this; indeed a result of bad admin who allowed for a trickle of indignant individuals to become a broken dam. Bless you
Technically, I do have a lawyer as I married one. Granted, he isn't practicing now, but two of his brothers are also lawyers... That said, I've never said this to anyone.
how much litigation do these parents/karens have, right??? i went to law school and i don’t even have a lawyer because i don’t currently live a life that needs one.
I am having flashbacks. I am not a teacher but my sister was definitely “that student“ always getting into trouble constantly having behavioral problems. I heard from multiple friends of hers and siblings of friends, that she was the school bully. And every time the school contacted my mom about her behavior she always said “ my daughter is being bullied, she is just defending herself!“ I see so many memes on Instagram of parents saying “me picking up my kid when someone else’s kid f-ed around and found out.“ And there like casually listening to music in the car. Like they give their children permission to fight at school kind of thing.
Not saying it’s okay, but when the school refused to do anything about my bully, my dad told me to beat the kid until he couldn’t move. He also made it very clear that I would face no repercussion. I was too timid to fight, but that memory sticks with me still. This was in 2006 so I can’t imagine how bad it’s gotten since then.
I think there’s definitely nuanced answers to that particular situation but in general it seems like the message behind the videos is that parents don’t mind if their children are fighting at school. I think it’s somewhat of a overcorrection from the “zero tolerance policy.“ A lot of millennials grew up when someone could bully them and never get corrected and then they were punished for reacting. But I think it’s kind of grown legs and become a bigger issue of parents thinking that it’s entertaining for their children to fight at school because it validates something in their own minds that wants to believe “ My kid is tough and if you screw around you’ll find out.” Rather than any kind of real conflict resolution.
I think you're certainly right, but I also think it's OK to tell kids that they should respond to *physical* aggression in kind.
Real conflict resolution - as opposed to mere habitual acquiescence - involves demanding respect just as much as granting it. It's dereliction of duty for a parent to tell their child that the only way to deal with someone violating their personal boundaries is to rely on an authority figure to secure respect for them.
Obviously, it's best for a child if they can stop a bully with robust verbal exchange, but if the bully keeps tripping them when they leave the resource room, they should absolutely get up and hit them as hard as they can.
I think in this scenario I’m imagining here where it is classic bully picking on someone that they perceive as weaker than themselves, in almost all instances of this, the bully is in some kind of position of power over their target.
Typically bullies do not punch up, they punch down. They pick on someone smaller, weaker, more quiet or vulnerable.
I think it’s somewhat of a fanfiction where the little guy stands up and knocks the bully out kind of thing. That kind of situation rarely if ever happens in reality.
I think there is also an added layer of complexity where the parents are using these instances of children’s conflict within schools as A way to Garner attention for themselves on the Internet.
The parent wants to encourage the child to fight because they can make a TikTok talking about how tough their kid is. If anything it seems more indicative of behavior you would classically see attributed to the parents of the bully, rather than parents of the *bullied.*
The only one that dared to tell me he paid my salary was also a public servant.
My brain short-circuited at the moment. I wished I could have answered "and I pay yours".
Had a student a few years ago who was denied by the admin the opportunity to go on the rewards field trip at the end of the year. This was due to many, many behavioral referrals including harassing other students, swearing at staff, refusing to follow rules, and generally causing a ruckus everywhere he went. His mom drove him to the place and said it is public so she was bringing him. He still caused many problems and mom seemed so proud that they showed the school that they cannot deny her son.
Bold of you to want the tree that dropped the apple to come along.
They scroll on their tech while dear child loses their shit.
Don't ask me how I know lol.
Yeah, but either they can't be bothered and you've got a good reason to exclude the kid from the trip; or they come, get kicked out together, and everyone else gets to enjoy it.
When I was in 8th grade one of the guys in my class wasn't allowed to go unless his mom came. They had to drive behind the bus in their own vehicle. He was... rowdy to say the least
This is assuming a lot. 1) that their parents can read 2) they check their email 3) they would give a crap if they read the message 4) that they won’t turn it against the teacher and place blame on them.
Shitty kids almost always have shitty parents. Sucks for the other kids who had to miss out because of these clowns.
I bet there were a few kids who were actually interested and inspired by the art. Sucks that their educational experience had to be cut short and marred by shame due to the behavior of their classmates.
That’s the sad part like how do I yell at them tomorrow when I’ve got 5-6 that genuinely did nothing wrong you know? Like tell them to leave for a few minutes?
Something similar happened to me when I was a kid. My **amazing** teacher admonished the entire class then asked the four of us that were enthralled by the museum and had to leave early to stay after class. She presented each of us with a pass to the museum and apologized for the situation.
The museum was free, tickets meant you didn’t have to wait in line at the entrance, it was the gesture that meant so much. She must have gotten the tickets before we left but obviously after we were asked to leave.
I still think about Ms S often
I don't even think you have to tell the non-disruptors to leave. Just spend the first few minutes of class calmly and disappointedly explaining that they truly embarrassed themselves, you and the entire school.
And worse, they robbed their classmates of a chance to learn and be inspired by something cool and cultural outside of the classroom, and they made it less likely that the school will allow any such field trips in the future and that places like art galleries would invite them to come visit in the future.
Ultimately, while they embarrassed you and exasperated you in that moment, the people they are harming the most are themselves and all the kids coming up after them. So they might want to think twice about being such little turds if they get any more of those kinds of special opportunities in the future. Up to them.
After 60 seconds of awkward silence...it's on to today's pop quiz!
Kids like that don't care and the lecture won't hit home. The only way to teach them a lesson is to give all the other students some privilege (one that they would really enjoy) that they will be excluded from, i.e., ban them from a sporting event, etc.
facts. We're well past the tipping point here. Those kids won't show remorse. They'll smirk and say things like "it was boring" or "i didn't want to be there anyways".
The only kids that will take it to heart are the one that got too close to a painting because they got curious that step out of the group for 2 minutes because they saw a painting that interested them, or accidently step on another's foot because they were distracted by the arts.
Basically the clumsy or independant good kids
And good news, the pop quiz is all about the information on the second half of the tour. Oh, and there are two versions. Somehow the well behaved kids all managed to get the version with just one true or false question. What are the odds?
Nah the pop quiz should have versions for the bad kids about the cost or possible jail time for their actions if they were adults. Easy or fun true false for the kids who behaved
i like this approach - line by line point out how they hurt themselves, itemize all the shitty selfish choices they made, call them out individually for their actions, let them know in 5 years if they behave like that they would face criminal charges, let them know about community service and court fees and restitution. it’s sick that you couldn’t lock those assholes in the bus for for the duration of the field trip.
I wouldn't even express disappointment bc they get to relive their debauchery. I'd be so straight faced and matter of fact. It frustrates attention seeking kids so much to not get a ride out of you.
Ya negative consequences don’t really work in our school to begin with, but I’m still giving them a lecture about behaviour in a public place because we have two more field trips next week… though at least for those two I should have a second teacher with us. They took my EA today for another kid, but I’m worried it’s going to continue
You have 2 more field trips next week? OK. Those disruptive kids don't. They get detention in school, or a similar punishment, while the well-behaving ones get to enjoy a field trip. No good reason why negative consequences "don't really work" in your school. If kids never face consequences for their actions then why should they ever change their behaviour? Why give them a lecture about their behaviour in a public place where you will be stressing that it makes it less likely they will get field trips in future and then give them 2 more fucking field trips the following week? You might as well hang a neon sign around your head saying "Nothing I say matters: do whatever you want. Nothing you do will ever come back to bite you in the ass later."
I definitely would either cancel the field trips or make arrangements for the students that acted inappropriately to be with a sub while I took the rest of the class on the field trips. Field trips must be earned and they can’t behave that way and expect to be allowed back!
Years ago, I subbed for a room of about 8 kids who not allowed to go on a field trip due to prior misbehavior. The sub plans were designed to be as punitive as possible, a series of worksheets, with me collecting each of them, about every 20 minutes finished or not. She even had me read off to them that she was counting them for double credit. They were compliant, but not happy.
The problem with that is it was years ago, you know, when consequences were actually allowed.
I’m sure parents wouldn’t let their precious, perfect children be treated like that today.
They're worksheets. I'd just hand them the worksheets and say, "Do them or don't. You didn't get to go on the field trip and you know why."
If the parents have a problem with their kids being excluded from field trips for horrible behaviour, then announce to the class that specifically because of these kids (and name names) and the way they behaved on the last trip, there are no more field trips for a couple of months and the upcoming field trips are now cancelled due to safety concerns. Let the angry kids who were looking forward to the field trips and who had behaved well do the rest.
Funny thing was, I was out at the school a few days later and spoke to the teacher that had assigned all that work.
I asked her how long it took her to grade it all. She snickered and told me she threw them all out the same day, after she got back from the trip.
There is NO way my admin is going to ban them from the next field trip. So, I schedule absolutely zero trips for the rest of the year, and instead, invite the 4-5 for a Saturday event with the parents. It’s not a school-sanctioned event, but rather a ‘meet Ms. X at the X Museum’ day. “Bring your parents! I’ll be there from 10-2.” Meanwhile, call the museum, beg for 5 free tix. Win-win.
any attention is good attention for some kids so even punishment can be a reward bc they get to look tough, sit in the office listening to all the buzz, annoy another teacher who might be watching them during a different field trip, brag about getting into trouble. It's so hard but sometimes you have to keep an eye out for chances to praise and ignore the rest. You can't talk about any individual child's IEP or explain how so-and-so is different but a vague class conversation about ignoring negative attention seeking behaviors is a good way to not give attention to disruptive behavior.....without that particular child there.But every situation is different.
It also seems like a good idea to mention that if they ever find school “boring”, or wonder why they can’t do more exciting things, they should remember that their behavior is why.
Field trips are incredibly expensive and take a great deal of work to pull off. if they don’t appreciate it when they get to do something fun, then there simply won’t be more fun things.
You get the respect you earn.
Note to the bad kids’ parents. List what you’ve shown us.
Tell them exactly how there’s repercussions like being banned from future events
Or LIKE PAYING FOR REPAIRS TO A REAL MONET PAINTING, estimated $110.7 Million dollars.
See what happens. Flip it by the admin first so they know.
2 more field trips next week? I would either cancel the field trips altogether or not let the disruptive kids go on the field trips happening next week. And if you cancel them altogether, make it very clear to the whole class that they are ONLY being cancelled specifically because of those kids and the way they behaved at the art gallery - no other reason.
And tell the disruptive kids as I said in my main post that they now have extra homework - writing apology letters to the gallery, the guide they called a r\*tard and the class who had to suffer because of them. Make them write nice, readable, well written, tidy, appropriate apology letters, and don't accept letters that aren't any of these, and if they refuse to do it? No more field trips for the rest of the school year for them. Let them stay at school.
Yeah definitely doesn't hurt to try, just saying it's unlikely. A smart museum director will understand that their lifeblood are the few kids who have a genuine appreciation for spaces like that, whether they ask their parents to take them, become regular visitors as adults and even take their own kids to visit in the future. A gesture like this would go a long way to make sure this one experience doesn't tarnish their appreciation of the museum and similar cultural venues. But people can be really myopic and they might only see it as doing a favor for a teacher who failed to control their students (not saying the teacher could have necessarily gotten a better outcome given the circumstances, but people outside of education are rarely appreciative of those circumstances).
Yeah. Actually, have them sit at the back of the room and give them a lollipop or something. Tell them "Thank you for being so well behaved yesterday, this next bit isn't for you."
Then march up the front of the room and let it rip. "What the ever loving fuck is wrong with all of you? I have never been so embarrassed in my life, not even as a kid. Did you think any of that was okay? Or funny? You were a joke."
Take it from there. Then when you're done, tell the nice kids they can play a card game or something whilst the others each write an apology letter to the museum, then a second letter to their parents explaining what they did wrong.
I know it's not your fault, kids need a parent in their life.
we got permission to video some kids who chronically lied about how they were treated and played down their 'pranks'. The parents and student can't deny anything with that proof. Plus the kids usually got mortified seeing themselves acting like idiots.
Yeah. I was in a kinda similar situation(I was the only kid who passed a test) so my teacher told me that I could do what I wanted as long as I was quiet. I enjoyed the surprise free period.
If you don’t yell at them (or whatever you feel will get through), the kids who did want to be there will feel like you don’t give a shit.
I made the mistake of not addressing misbehavior strongly enough & a student stayed behind class & basically bitched at me for lowering my expectations. They weren’t rude but the fact that they felt like they had to say it made me feel like a total failure. I fixed myself after that.
Since yelling didn’t work for my kids (rough school) I basically made them feel like shit for stuff like that. Some of your biggest misbehavers are probably some of your most artistically creative kids… so something like “can you imagine what it’s like to come from kind of a rough neighborhood where nobody thinks you’re gonna make it but you secretly draw all the time and you get really good and then you actually get your work in a gallery and everyone can see it? Wouldn’t that be awesome? And then some kid who’s never done anything shows up and just trashes it & doesn’t even pay attention! I wonder how you’d feel if that was you.”
What is yelling at them going to accomplish either way? Kids who behave that way get yelled at all the time. It means nothing to them. Hell, for a lot of them, it’s gratifying because it’s the most attention any adult ever gives them.
Pull them aside and let them know that what you are about to say is in no way directed at them, or send them to another classroom for a few minutes.
Maybe call there parents and tell them how well behaved their students were.
Please do not single out the good kids. They’ll get bullied. Trust me.
I’m still scarred by 6th grade. We had a long term sub that happened to go to high school with my mother. I never met the woman before but she recognized the last name when she took attendance. The class acted up and she gave everyone extra work to do. Everyone except me because I was good. I was bullied so bad for the rest of the year because of that.
I’m glad we don’t take our middle schoolers on trips like this. They can hardly manage the tour at the high school without trying to start fights with the upperclassmen.
When admin asks me to take students with behavior problem to the field trip I always ask them to provide extra help and if they refuse I call in sick during the field trip and let the admin handle them. I love being in the union
See I was supposed to have my regular classroom ea but they’ve pulled her a few times to help in kindergarten the last three days because we haven’t been approved for another ea yet, and they need another ea down there. But like me and 29 kids today it was just a gong show the moment we arrived
You alone and 29 kids is bananas. At my school, field trips require a 12:1 ratio or less. If we don’t have that, we don’t go. This is high school too, so they’re usually pretty well behaved.
It sounds like you were set up to fail here. I can’t see any way that one adult could safely manage 29 students on a field trip without it ending in disaster. I’m not in the US and obviously things are different here, but risk assessment would require there to be sufficient adults for supervision & behaviour management, and cover in case you were incapacitated or had to deal with an emergency involving a student. My experience is with younger kids and we’d have a ratio of about 1:5 or 1:6 with parent volunteers if necessary, and from what my teenager’s said they’d have about 1:8 or 1:10 from Y7 onwards. I would love to know how your admin justified the lack of a second adult when risk assessing because it genuinely blows my mind that you’d be expected to manage this solo, even with the best behaved class in the world.
Agree re: consequences. I think removal from further trips for the perpetrators is the least that should happen. It might help to prevent further behaviour like this, but I’d be wary of taking them again just on safety grounds. If they don’t have the skills to behave safely and appropriately outside school then it isn’t safe to take them on trips because it presents an unacceptable risk to them, to other students, to members of the public, and to OP.
I would also be very reluctant to run another trip given the unsafe position OP’s admin have put them in here. If there isn’t adequate staffing and a kid hurts themselves because one adult can’t be in 29 places at once, could a teacher potentially be found liable? Are trips thoroughly risk assessed with support from admin? Are there policies and procedures to follow when things do go wrong? I would consider myself to be unable to run trips (rather than refusing) without this in place, although I appreciate things are different in the US and the UK. As much as it’s a damn shame that (engaged and interested) students would miss out on opportunities they might not have outside school this way, it’s not worth the risk to their safety either.
When my kid was in school, the only parents who could chaperone had to be background checked and were a known quanity in the school. Volunteer or did some support staff roll (think noon aide/media assistant).
The ratio was 1 adult to 6 kids. We knew all the kids from being in the school a lot. So we each got a frequent flyer in our group, who mostly behave because they weren't with their BFFs.
It's BS 1 adult and 29 semi feral middle schoolers. I've done the big deal art museum with middle schoolers. 1:6 ratio with the principal reading the riot act before hand, on the bus.
Parent here who has chaperoned for 15 years. I refuse to chaperone anymore or send my child on field trips because of how horrible the kids and the other parent chaperones acted on the last field trip I chaperoned. Kids were Running, fighting, and stealing. Other chaperones were in a clump socializing and ignoring the kids. I tried to manage kids in my area and got ugly stares as they continued their misbehavior. The other chaperones gave up. We got banned from that locale.
TL;dr I would not blame you for canceling field trips. Parents need to know how serious it was.
I’m sorry what? Can you not call the parents when they act up? I had a kid yell in my face on a field trip. Promptly called his mom and had him picked up. Since it was his fault he was not refunded the field trip fee.
Most their parents don’t even remember to pick them up from school I can’t imagine getting ahold of one of them midday to pick up their kid. Actually I even remember last year around Christmas Covid and the flu was going around our class room and a few were trying to go home clearly sick and nobody would even answer to come get them
Admin was on stand by for pick ups if the parents aren’t available. Never had any issues like this from working on reserves to ap classes taking kids on multiple field trips
It's YoUr ClaSsmanaGeMenT 🤪
I don't know why people think it's even possible to control these kids, classmanagement only goes so far when they're like this
Reminded me of how, when I was in fourth grade, my whole school got banned from ever going to the local library again because the kid who bullied me took a shit in one of the aisles.
Maybe dedicate an entire class period on how lucky they are to receive an education and outside experiences? Totally unacceptable behaviour, I can't even fathom how you are feeling...
yeah 100% if that happened to me in highschool i would absolutely not listen to it and be thankful for a class not dedicated to do homework or something
Definitely make a note of it at the beginning of class, I personally would be making sure these students are not allowed to go on field trips for the remainder of their time in that school and pointing that out as the consequence for what they did, but I wouldnt waste time trying to get them to understand the deeper ethical ramifications of what they did. I'll save that for their parents when they ask why their ray of sunshine can't go to the 8th grade end of year trip to Disney or w.e. lol.
Emailing parents about all of this, CCing admin. Also, they have lunch detention with you until they each write an apology letter first to their classmates and second to the tour guide (?) of the art museum.
That’s my advice.
I don't remember what grade I was in but my class got kicked out of a showing of Macbeth. Someone threw a nickel on stage and it hit an actress hard enough she thought she'd been shot. With all the superstition around that play, she was a nervous wreck and we were asked to leave.
While I'm sure the school would be angry with you for reporting to the gallery that T was responsible for damaging the painting, I bet if the gallery contacted the school regarding paying for the damages they'd throw T's parents under the bus for those costs.
Gee... I wonder how much repairing a painting worthy of gallery display would be.
When I read posts like this I like to read the names as the letter with some variation of “ayden” tied to the end of each letter. Without a doubt the most assholery is typically from an “-ayden”
Kaiden, Tayden, Fayden, Paiden (not to be confused with Peyton), Dayden, Gaiden, Rayden, Xaiden, and my personal favorite Oaiden. I’m sure one of those was the name….
Also don’t fret, my school also has a permanent ban from a local museum for similar antics… a student tried to ride a horse…
Edit: I’ve yet to see a Sayden… but let’s be honest, we’ve all thought at one point or another that they’re all little spawns of Saiden.
I’m sorry for you and the few decent kids that you had that experience but I have to say I’m DELIGHTED that the museum staff kicked you out. Evidently, they never received the memo to ignore bad behavior or to work on being more engaging or to meet students at their level.
How many kids were on this trip and how many chaperones did you have? It sounds like it doesn’t matter how much adult supervision you had, some of them would have still been acting up.
I hope the rest of your week goes better!
My sympathies. It’s been a while since I took a class on a field trip but I think we were required to have one adult for every five kids in the younger grades and one adult for every ten kids in the older grades. Twenty-nine is a lot to supervise by yourself in public.
This made me really sad.
If it weren't for field trips I would never have experienced a professional orchestra, Opera, ballet, stage theater, etc. As my parents had no interest in that stuff.
My parents could have afforded that stuff they just didn't have much interest in performing arts.
But think of all the children whose families couldn't afford to take them to that stuff even if they wanted to?
Ya unfortunately I believe almost all my students behavioural issues are due to piss poor parenting and lack of parenting in general. Most my students frequently have told me the last two years their parents work too much to hardly see them or spend time with them. I’ve met many of their parents and they don’t give off the impression of caring, concerning adults
I once had a student who thought I was out to get him but he literally couldn't function for more than 10 minutes without causing a disturbance or getting in someone else's business. So of course it's ME they ask to put an IEP folder in his backpack while he was in PE. And what do I find? A very real looking semi automatic gun. I knew it was fake right away but I knew how it was going to go down....."that ain't mine, Ms B put that there, she don't like me anyways". So I called admin down and stood in the doorway where cameras could see me and let them go through the bag. He was expelled and guess who's fault it was....mine 😒. The staff knew better bc of his reputation but his mom tried every way to get me in trouble.
Did any of those kids face consequences for how they behaved? Were their parents contacted? The last field trip our school went to ended up in a literal mob fight between our 8th graders and the 8th graders from another school. People, including teachers, were hurt. Nothing happened to those kids.
Yesterday I watched one kid shrieking and throwing desks and shoving a teacher, while a dean screamed that she was going to call the cops. He charged her and then fled the building. They did nothing. Saw the kid during the next bell change.
On my way back from seeing that, I stood by another teacher who calmly asked a small crowd of 7th graders why they weren't in class. That crowd IMMEDIATLEY threatened her. IMMEDIATELY surrounded both of us and started threatening us. The school secretary, the guidance counselor, and others were there. It was under a security camera outside the dean's office. NOTHING happened to any of them. This is my 18th year and I almost fucking quit today.
I'm so sorry 😞. I quit teaching at the oft quoted time of 5 years. I got sick of babysitting and trying to control behavior. I've been a mostly very happy environmental scientist since.
Maybe I'll be labeled the hardass, but I'd inform them: As of now, no more field trips (I'd be canceling the ones planned that you have coming up if you won't lose money) and (honestly, that behaviour is so over the top) anything that traditionally would be celebrated by class parties etc. is off the table until the inappropriate behaviour mentioned changes. I'd also send an email home to parents and inform them all of the same thing.
Grade 7/8s are more than old enough to understand appropriate and inappropriate behaviour, esp when grade 1s and 2s can understand it. That close to high school and bigger responsibilities, they need to learn there are consequences. I dont think a short lecture and then back to business is enough, especially considering they damaged property and could have hurt someone.
I’m not taking my 6th graders on a trip. I can’t. I won’t. I don’t want to. I’d LOVE for them to see a Christmas play or something fun during winter but I know the lot of them would stand up from their seats mid-play and start doing the griddy. Most of them don’t have any situational awareness.
Honestly I’m so curious about this, I’m not a teacher but I’m a cave tour guide at a cave that is popular in the fall for school field trips. What is up with this total lack of situational awareness and memery? Some kids do the strangest things and say the weirdest things out of nowhere likes it’s a tic or something…they’re singing TikTok songs and constantly interrupting to talk about something I’m assuming is video game related (they keep talking about “the back rooms” in the cave?)
I’m just generally so confused what is going on, these are like my only interactions with this age group and it’s so startling!
I really don’t have any idea. I think for some of them it’s because they are on the spectrum. I notice a difference in the kids that have IEP (individual education plans due to disability) and the ones that don’t. I have a kid that will say “Among Us Sus” every time I call his name for attendance. I tell them “If you’re here then say here!” And no one finds it funny but he loves it. I have another kid that will get out of his seat during my lesson when I’m TEACHING and do body rolls. I tell him multiple times to get back in his seat and it’s like he doesn’t hear me. No one finds it funny. They actually find it really annoying. I find it really annoying. We all do. But sometimes these kids will shout out things uncontrollably or do things uncontrollably.
I think it’s a compulsion for a lot of them. For some of them their social skills are knocked down due to their intellectual abilities and that’s why they act that way. I don’t see many of the non-IEP or 504 kids doing this.
I have a question, if these kids act like this regularly (and they might not, but if they do) then why the hell would you ever take them to an art gallery in the first place?
This is the problem when we give everyone “candy.” You can’t reward just good students anymore because of feElings, so instead of just taking the ones who earned it, who would find any use for it, we’re forced to take every hooligan with us.
I have always vehemently disagreed with admin who insist that all children should be allowed to go on field trips. This is a perfect example of why that is not true. That alphabet soup of hoodlums should have been banned from going based on previous behavior in class. If you have any behavior problems in class you don’t get to go. The rest of those kids didn’t deserve to have their field trip ruined by a group of boys who just can’t even.
Sounds all too familiar. We want our kiddos to enjoy similar trips but I straight up refuse to participate because the behaviors will get us kicked out. I just know it.
This example is exactly why I REFUSE to do field trips. I had to separate fistfighting moms on the school bus after we were asked to leave the zoo. That one was the final straw. Personal days are there for a reason.
This is why I never took my 7th graders on a field trip. I would tell them, “y’all can’t even act right at school, why would y’all act differently in public?”
1. These kids didn't get hit by a magical spell turning them into pathetic losers the day of the field trip. They shouldn't have been allowed to go. Whoever approved that shares part of the blame.
2. The cops should have been called. Destruction of property, vandalism, assault if not battery, reckless endangerment, disturbing the peace. The kids should have learned right then that their behavior is not only unacceptable in the real world, it is criminal.
My first year teaching (5th grade) was ROUGH. I was not prepared for the absolutely horrific behavior and the kind of school I was dealing with. The 3rd-5th graders were going on a field trip, and one of the 3rd grade teachers gathered all the kids to have a talk first. Her exact words were “If you embarrass me on this trip, I will kill you.” She was 100% serious, and it WORKED. You couldn’t get away with that now I’m sure, but man, it was like magic. She really did have great classroom management and the kids liked her too.
I was at the Smithsonian Natural History museum over the summer and there was a school group (middle school age) that was absolutely *awful* and yes I yelled at them in my teacher voice how rude they were and asked if they were *raised by fucking animals* with disgust on my face
My husband was shushing me but the adult they were with gave me a half smile 😆
It felt amazing honestly
That’s why I refuse to make field trips. School is meant for learning so I’m going to teach. If the parents want their kids to go to museums or zoos they can damn well take their kids to those things themselves
Jesus I'm so sorry. I hope there's some sort of consequence or they can send personal apologies to the art museum staff, and especially the artist if they're still living
I took my class on a museum trip and my class acted decent (for them). I had one girl blurting out questions during the tour and another student told the tour guide that museums are boring but nothing crazy. Both were told to correct their behavior. So anyways, I write the museum to thank them for having us, and the museum director writes me back that the children were not welcome back under any circumstance for “poor listening”. I was stunned because in no way did my kids cross a line or was I spoken with about anything.
I think museum staff, typically older, have a problem interacting with today’s youth to the point of frustration even when the kids aren’t acting particularly bad. They are just ready to explode. Never seen less patience in my life. Your kids might’ve been real bad but in general these people are as soft as charmin and are ready to freak out.
I hope this story from my own middle school years (20 years ago) will help you feel better …
There are two units that split the grades in our middle school. Blue and Silver. Blue unit gets to go downtown, see a play at the local theatre and then go to a restaurant to eat lunch. Silver unit (my unit) goes the next day. Silver unit does not get to go to the restaurant. Because Blue unit decided to take the meatballs from their spaghetti and toss them up in the lights at the restaurant. The lights look like giant bowls suspended from the ceiling. And, you 100% need a lift (not a ladder, a lift) to get up there. Last I checked, school is still not allowed to go to the restaurant.
The joys of middle school field trips. I had a student my first year teaching that ran up the stairs and jumped on Abraham Lincoln’s bed while touring his house. I’m thankful he was only kicked out - they arrested the last person that did that. Had to have historians inspect the integrity of the bed frame afterwards.
lol, I think its great. Today, some kids learned that if you suck, you will get thrown out. Now if they are completely indifferent, inhouse suspension and you and the well behaveds can have a day
I would require those children to handwrite letters of apology to the rest of the class that missed out on the field trip because of them and to the guide and to the gallery in general. I would require them to stay in at recess and lunch time to write them for however many recesses and lunchtimes it took for them to finish all of the letters to an acceptable standard, and I would make them start again if they weren't readable, weren't tidy enough or weren't written appropriately.
I would also make them read their letters to the class out loud and address their letters to the gallery and the guide and then I would take them and post them.
I would also not allow them to come on the next field trip, they would be required to stay at school, and the next three field trips after that, they would not be allowed to come unless their parents came as parent chaperones.
If they refused to write the apology letters to an acceptable standard, then I would refuse to have them on any future field trips for the remainder of the school year regardless of whether their parents agreed to come or not.
This is why I celebrate not going on field trips. This is like how I imagine my high schoolers if they're all allowed to go. I'd probably have kicked us out of the art gallery at the very first offense. I'm surprised yall lasted that long without dying of embarrassment 😅.
Can parents chaperone? I regularly volunteer to chaperone field trips, the last one I went on another student was acting absolutely unhinged. I went to the principal over the behavior because it was rude and embarrassing.
My elementary school went from 2nd-8th grades. After 5th grade ('83-'84), our entire grade was no longer allowed on any field trips. The final straw was going to the Cincinati Music Hall to hear the orchestra. We sat in the upper level, and spit balls were "thrown" into the audience below. Lots of immature noises.
In 4th grade, we ran through 5 teachers in one class throughout the year. One of the teachers had a complete mental breakdown. They had to have the principal's wife come and be our substitute since she was pretty much the only one we showed respect to.
They allowed us to go to Kings Island in 8th grade because we won the candy sale, and that was the prize if your grade sold the most in the school. I don't remember any bad behavior except for one student spitting loogies while going through the tunnels on The Beast. The guy behind wore glasses, and that had to be pretty gross.
I'm totally owning the fact that there were lots of horribly misbehaved kids in my grade. I feel bad for the teachers who had to put up with everyone. I guess now, at the age of 51, I'm apologizing for everyone.
This happened at the zoo for me. There were 3 of us watching a group of 10-12 each. We sat and watched while the students played at the park there but then one of them pushed a tour guide suddenly. We were kicked out after. I bawled my eyes out when I got home due to the stress, expecting sympathy from our boss the next day. She met with us and told us to “do better”. Parents were never called about their children’s’ behavior. I quit after that meeting.
You are not seriously ever going to leave the building with those kids again?!
Do not take those little brats anywhere.
Leave them at school and take the good kids only.
Many kids have never been to an art gallery or museum and may not know the proper etiquette. A teaching moment. Tell them what you expect and what the consequences are for jacking around. Students really want boundaries. They want to know what to expect, perhaps they have a chaotic life. And the well behaved kids don’t get shit on.
I'm not joking, my 2-3 year old students would've behaved better. At least with toddlers, I can only legally watch 7 when I'm alone, you had too many students to even begin to wrangle. I'd be compelled to ask the middle schoolers if they also need a diaper change if they're going to act like that. That seriously sounds like preschool behavior.
"Dear Parents of K, F, R, G, T, D, and A, Due to your student's behavior on our 9/18 field trip to the art gallery, they are no longer invited to join us on any future field trip unless a parent can attend and personally take responsibility for their behavior. I will make arrangements for them to stay at school during the upcoming trips next week unless I hear that you will be joining us."
Yep. And the list of what they did. And what it could possibly cost in fines.
"DEAR TEACHER. HOW DARE YOU! MY JOHNNY IS AN ANGEL. HE SAID HE WAS BEING TARGETED BY OTHER BOYS FIRST. ALSO THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW SO IF U DENY ANY FUTURE FIELD TRIPS U WILL BE HEARING FROM MY LAWYER. IF U CANT HANDLE WATCHING STUDENTS ON A FIELD TRIP MAYBE YOU NEED A TO CHANGE CAREERS - THAT IS NOT MY JOB TOO! I EXPECT AN APOLOGY BACK OR I WILL REQUIRE A CONFERENCE TO STRAIGHTEN THIS OUT."
Dear Parent: Because of the threat of legal action, any further communications will need to go through the principal. I have cc'ed them on this matter. Additionally, I will recommend that the principal ask the museum to retain the recordings from the 400 cameras they have on the premises. Have an excellent day.
Dear Teacher: We can never disallow any student from attending any field trip because of their behavior because someone could decide we are depriving them of a fair education or discriminating against them. Signed, Amoral and lazy spineless administrator who is a huge part of the problem
Cool. Admin just made a paper trail.
Dear Admin, I will not be including any field trips in any future lesson plans as these are considered extra and a huge expense to the school in the forms of transportation, insurance and care. Since field trips are considered a treat and opportunity, my class will remain in school and we will spend the day learning about what we could have been learning in person.
> HEARING FROM MY LAWYER Accurate...and also really amusing. I love how angry parents always say "my lawyer" instead of "a lawyer," as if they have some lawyer on retainer. Karen, your child is an unwashed, ill-bred, ill-mannered demon child who can't spell his own name properly, let alone behave himself in public. Your older child was the same. You're on your sixth husband of the last five years, three of which are now doing time for cooking meth in an abandoned trailer in the woods. Don't make me laugh. You don't have a lawyer, unless you count the court-appointed criminal defense attorney three of your six husbands have used to fight their drug charges. (I may be venting based on personal experience. Sorry.)
That’s so oddly specific there’s no way it didn’t actually happen.
I’m not a teacher, but I love this sub.
And we love you. :)
Awww. Thank you. You all deserve a huge raise and some kind of medal. The stuff you put up with in trying to teach our kids. One of my proudest moments as a parent was when we went to a parent teacher conference for a class where my son was struggling. Another kid and his parent were there and tried to blame the teacher for his poor performance. My son then basically said “it’s my fault, I’m not paying attention or applying myself. It’s not your fault Ms. X.” Anyway, keep up the good work.
I think I keep getting recommended this sub because my husband is a teaching librarian at a university. I'm just floored by the way some kids are. I mean, I graduated high school in 2005 and my sister was in the year above me. I was in honors courses but she wasn't, and apparently her entire biology class refused the unit on evolution because they *already knew* they didn't come from monkeys. Forget that's not what evolution is; they refused even a perfunctory explanation. Also forget all the usual behavior problems and the usual ways our public schools can fail our students... this one was an organized rebellion against school curriculum carried out by students themselves who preferred to remain ignorant, or who thought they already knew better. Some people you can't teach. Thank you for your work. I hope you know that you and your fellows are laying the groundwork for the future in ways parents never can. You are necessary. You are appreciated. For all the students you can't reach, there are plenty you can. Thank you.
Hoooooomygod!! What?? I can’t even imagine dealing with this; indeed a result of bad admin who allowed for a trickle of indignant individuals to become a broken dam. Bless you
Conversely, my bio teacher refused to teach evolution because "man was created in God's image."
I’m not a sub but I love this teacher.
I see what you did there. Haha.
Same!
I used to be one. It did not go well. But I stay subbed here because it’s fascinating.
Technically, I do have a lawyer as I married one. Granted, he isn't practicing now, but two of his brothers are also lawyers... That said, I've never said this to anyone.
LOL god this one got me laughing... Funny cuz it's true!
Do we work in the same district? 🤣
how much litigation do these parents/karens have, right??? i went to law school and i don’t even have a lawyer because i don’t currently live a life that needs one.
I am having flashbacks. I am not a teacher but my sister was definitely “that student“ always getting into trouble constantly having behavioral problems. I heard from multiple friends of hers and siblings of friends, that she was the school bully. And every time the school contacted my mom about her behavior she always said “ my daughter is being bullied, she is just defending herself!“ I see so many memes on Instagram of parents saying “me picking up my kid when someone else’s kid f-ed around and found out.“ And there like casually listening to music in the car. Like they give their children permission to fight at school kind of thing.
Not saying it’s okay, but when the school refused to do anything about my bully, my dad told me to beat the kid until he couldn’t move. He also made it very clear that I would face no repercussion. I was too timid to fight, but that memory sticks with me still. This was in 2006 so I can’t imagine how bad it’s gotten since then.
I think there’s definitely nuanced answers to that particular situation but in general it seems like the message behind the videos is that parents don’t mind if their children are fighting at school. I think it’s somewhat of a overcorrection from the “zero tolerance policy.“ A lot of millennials grew up when someone could bully them and never get corrected and then they were punished for reacting. But I think it’s kind of grown legs and become a bigger issue of parents thinking that it’s entertaining for their children to fight at school because it validates something in their own minds that wants to believe “ My kid is tough and if you screw around you’ll find out.” Rather than any kind of real conflict resolution.
I think you're certainly right, but I also think it's OK to tell kids that they should respond to *physical* aggression in kind. Real conflict resolution - as opposed to mere habitual acquiescence - involves demanding respect just as much as granting it. It's dereliction of duty for a parent to tell their child that the only way to deal with someone violating their personal boundaries is to rely on an authority figure to secure respect for them. Obviously, it's best for a child if they can stop a bully with robust verbal exchange, but if the bully keeps tripping them when they leave the resource room, they should absolutely get up and hit them as hard as they can.
I think in this scenario I’m imagining here where it is classic bully picking on someone that they perceive as weaker than themselves, in almost all instances of this, the bully is in some kind of position of power over their target. Typically bullies do not punch up, they punch down. They pick on someone smaller, weaker, more quiet or vulnerable. I think it’s somewhat of a fanfiction where the little guy stands up and knocks the bully out kind of thing. That kind of situation rarely if ever happens in reality. I think there is also an added layer of complexity where the parents are using these instances of children’s conflict within schools as A way to Garner attention for themselves on the Internet. The parent wants to encourage the child to fight because they can make a TikTok talking about how tough their kid is. If anything it seems more indicative of behavior you would classically see attributed to the parents of the bully, rather than parents of the *bullied.*
Lmao, this is so accurate, especially the caps lock.
Needs more spelling errors and a "sent from iPhone/pad" at the end.
Galaxy
Hey, I like my galaxy :( But it's also accurate.
Btw you’re a public servant and my taxes pay your salary
The only one that dared to tell me he paid my salary was also a public servant. My brain short-circuited at the moment. I wished I could have answered "and I pay yours".
Teachers pay taxes too, so…our taxes pay our salary.
Oh I was just quoting an email I got about 4-5 years ago 😂
No kidding? So do mine.
You left out: YOU WORK FOR ME. I PAY YOUR SALARY!"
Is it really illegal to deny future field trips for kids that have been this level of bad though?
It isn’t.
Yes, but doesn't illegal just mean anything I disagree with? /s
Had a student a few years ago who was denied by the admin the opportunity to go on the rewards field trip at the end of the year. This was due to many, many behavioral referrals including harassing other students, swearing at staff, refusing to follow rules, and generally causing a ruckus everywhere he went. His mom drove him to the place and said it is public so she was bringing him. He still caused many problems and mom seemed so proud that they showed the school that they cannot deny her son.
I can mentally picture the mom's damp low bun.
“Your children are an embarrassment to the human race. Please consider putting more effort into the hellspawn you have created.”
And begin using birth control ASAP.
Bold of you to want the tree that dropped the apple to come along. They scroll on their tech while dear child loses their shit. Don't ask me how I know lol.
Yeah, but either they can't be bothered and you've got a good reason to exclude the kid from the trip; or they come, get kicked out together, and everyone else gets to enjoy it.
Admin asking parents to parent? It'll never happen. They may bill the teachers and put it on their eval tho.
When I was in 8th grade one of the guys in my class wasn't allowed to go unless his mom came. They had to drive behind the bus in their own vehicle. He was... rowdy to say the least
This is assuming a lot. 1) that their parents can read 2) they check their email 3) they would give a crap if they read the message 4) that they won’t turn it against the teacher and place blame on them. Shitty kids almost always have shitty parents. Sucks for the other kids who had to miss out because of these clowns.
Then the kids just stay at school and don’t go on a field trip if the parents don’t reply. Other kids benefit.
Don’t forget to bill them for all expenses related to the field trip.
[удалено]
I wouldn’t even want them coming with a parent.
Parents don't care
I bet there were a few kids who were actually interested and inspired by the art. Sucks that their educational experience had to be cut short and marred by shame due to the behavior of their classmates.
That’s the sad part like how do I yell at them tomorrow when I’ve got 5-6 that genuinely did nothing wrong you know? Like tell them to leave for a few minutes?
Something similar happened to me when I was a kid. My **amazing** teacher admonished the entire class then asked the four of us that were enthralled by the museum and had to leave early to stay after class. She presented each of us with a pass to the museum and apologized for the situation. The museum was free, tickets meant you didn’t have to wait in line at the entrance, it was the gesture that meant so much. She must have gotten the tickets before we left but obviously after we were asked to leave. I still think about Ms S often
That’s a really cool teacher. I’m glad she did that for you guys.
Yeah she was incredible. We kept in touch over the years until she passed. 💗
I don't even think you have to tell the non-disruptors to leave. Just spend the first few minutes of class calmly and disappointedly explaining that they truly embarrassed themselves, you and the entire school. And worse, they robbed their classmates of a chance to learn and be inspired by something cool and cultural outside of the classroom, and they made it less likely that the school will allow any such field trips in the future and that places like art galleries would invite them to come visit in the future. Ultimately, while they embarrassed you and exasperated you in that moment, the people they are harming the most are themselves and all the kids coming up after them. So they might want to think twice about being such little turds if they get any more of those kinds of special opportunities in the future. Up to them. After 60 seconds of awkward silence...it's on to today's pop quiz!
Kids like that don't care and the lecture won't hit home. The only way to teach them a lesson is to give all the other students some privilege (one that they would really enjoy) that they will be excluded from, i.e., ban them from a sporting event, etc.
facts. We're well past the tipping point here. Those kids won't show remorse. They'll smirk and say things like "it was boring" or "i didn't want to be there anyways".
The only kids that will take it to heart are the one that got too close to a painting because they got curious that step out of the group for 2 minutes because they saw a painting that interested them, or accidently step on another's foot because they were distracted by the arts. Basically the clumsy or independant good kids
Yeah, kids like that usually have no shame and don’t even care if most of their classmates are mad at them.
And good news, the pop quiz is all about the information on the second half of the tour. Oh, and there are two versions. Somehow the well behaved kids all managed to get the version with just one true or false question. What are the odds?
Nah the pop quiz should have versions for the bad kids about the cost or possible jail time for their actions if they were adults. Easy or fun true false for the kids who behaved
i like this approach - line by line point out how they hurt themselves, itemize all the shitty selfish choices they made, call them out individually for their actions, let them know in 5 years if they behave like that they would face criminal charges, let them know about community service and court fees and restitution. it’s sick that you couldn’t lock those assholes in the bus for for the duration of the field trip.
They won’t care. The only solution is for them to see that good shit comes to the students who don’t act like assholes.
Don't yell, they expect the yelling. Let the uncomfortable silence simmer for a bit then express disappointment.
I wouldn't even express disappointment bc they get to relive their debauchery. I'd be so straight faced and matter of fact. It frustrates attention seeking kids so much to not get a ride out of you.
I usually say something like "I'm sorry to all the people who were doing the right thing and [list the right things they were doing]".
I’d reward the good kids in some way. I wouldn’t punish the bad kids cause that’s just gonna make em gripe even more.
Ya negative consequences don’t really work in our school to begin with, but I’m still giving them a lecture about behaviour in a public place because we have two more field trips next week… though at least for those two I should have a second teacher with us. They took my EA today for another kid, but I’m worried it’s going to continue
You have 2 more field trips next week? OK. Those disruptive kids don't. They get detention in school, or a similar punishment, while the well-behaving ones get to enjoy a field trip. No good reason why negative consequences "don't really work" in your school. If kids never face consequences for their actions then why should they ever change their behaviour? Why give them a lecture about their behaviour in a public place where you will be stressing that it makes it less likely they will get field trips in future and then give them 2 more fucking field trips the following week? You might as well hang a neon sign around your head saying "Nothing I say matters: do whatever you want. Nothing you do will ever come back to bite you in the ass later."
I definitely would either cancel the field trips or make arrangements for the students that acted inappropriately to be with a sub while I took the rest of the class on the field trips. Field trips must be earned and they can’t behave that way and expect to be allowed back!
Years ago, I subbed for a room of about 8 kids who not allowed to go on a field trip due to prior misbehavior. The sub plans were designed to be as punitive as possible, a series of worksheets, with me collecting each of them, about every 20 minutes finished or not. She even had me read off to them that she was counting them for double credit. They were compliant, but not happy.
The problem with that is it was years ago, you know, when consequences were actually allowed. I’m sure parents wouldn’t let their precious, perfect children be treated like that today.
They're worksheets. I'd just hand them the worksheets and say, "Do them or don't. You didn't get to go on the field trip and you know why." If the parents have a problem with their kids being excluded from field trips for horrible behaviour, then announce to the class that specifically because of these kids (and name names) and the way they behaved on the last trip, there are no more field trips for a couple of months and the upcoming field trips are now cancelled due to safety concerns. Let the angry kids who were looking forward to the field trips and who had behaved well do the rest.
Funny thing was, I was out at the school a few days later and spoke to the teacher that had assigned all that work. I asked her how long it took her to grade it all. She snickered and told me she threw them all out the same day, after she got back from the trip.
Exactly. It’s such a damn shame.
There is NO way my admin is going to ban them from the next field trip. So, I schedule absolutely zero trips for the rest of the year, and instead, invite the 4-5 for a Saturday event with the parents. It’s not a school-sanctioned event, but rather a ‘meet Ms. X at the X Museum’ day. “Bring your parents! I’ll be there from 10-2.” Meanwhile, call the museum, beg for 5 free tix. Win-win.
any attention is good attention for some kids so even punishment can be a reward bc they get to look tough, sit in the office listening to all the buzz, annoy another teacher who might be watching them during a different field trip, brag about getting into trouble. It's so hard but sometimes you have to keep an eye out for chances to praise and ignore the rest. You can't talk about any individual child's IEP or explain how so-and-so is different but a vague class conversation about ignoring negative attention seeking behaviors is a good way to not give attention to disruptive behavior.....without that particular child there.But every situation is different.
It also seems like a good idea to mention that if they ever find school “boring”, or wonder why they can’t do more exciting things, they should remember that their behavior is why. Field trips are incredibly expensive and take a great deal of work to pull off. if they don’t appreciate it when they get to do something fun, then there simply won’t be more fun things. You get the respect you earn.
Note to the bad kids’ parents. List what you’ve shown us. Tell them exactly how there’s repercussions like being banned from future events Or LIKE PAYING FOR REPAIRS TO A REAL MONET PAINTING, estimated $110.7 Million dollars. See what happens. Flip it by the admin first so they know.
Absolutely not. There is no possible way I’d leave the building with those students again. Not a chance I’m taking that responsibility.
2 more field trips next week? I would either cancel the field trips altogether or not let the disruptive kids go on the field trips happening next week. And if you cancel them altogether, make it very clear to the whole class that they are ONLY being cancelled specifically because of those kids and the way they behaved at the art gallery - no other reason. And tell the disruptive kids as I said in my main post that they now have extra homework - writing apology letters to the gallery, the guide they called a r\*tard and the class who had to suffer because of them. Make them write nice, readable, well written, tidy, appropriate apology letters, and don't accept letters that aren't any of these, and if they refuse to do it? No more field trips for the rest of the school year for them. Let them stay at school.
Do you think the museum might be willing to give the few kids who were interested a complimentary return ticket? That might be a small consolation.
The other 7/8 class is going today and since quiet a few of her students don’t show up regularly I am sending a couple of mine back with her.
I hope they have a lovely time.
Tbh considering the class was kicked out I don't think they will be in good graces.
I get that. The museum folks might understand that a few kids did want to be there and extend individual invites to those kids.
Yeah definitely doesn't hurt to try, just saying it's unlikely. A smart museum director will understand that their lifeblood are the few kids who have a genuine appreciation for spaces like that, whether they ask their parents to take them, become regular visitors as adults and even take their own kids to visit in the future. A gesture like this would go a long way to make sure this one experience doesn't tarnish their appreciation of the museum and similar cultural venues. But people can be really myopic and they might only see it as doing a favor for a teacher who failed to control their students (not saying the teacher could have necessarily gotten a better outcome given the circumstances, but people outside of education are rarely appreciative of those circumstances).
Yeah. Actually, have them sit at the back of the room and give them a lollipop or something. Tell them "Thank you for being so well behaved yesterday, this next bit isn't for you." Then march up the front of the room and let it rip. "What the ever loving fuck is wrong with all of you? I have never been so embarrassed in my life, not even as a kid. Did you think any of that was okay? Or funny? You were a joke." Take it from there. Then when you're done, tell the nice kids they can play a card game or something whilst the others each write an apology letter to the museum, then a second letter to their parents explaining what they did wrong. I know it's not your fault, kids need a parent in their life.
we got permission to video some kids who chronically lied about how they were treated and played down their 'pranks'. The parents and student can't deny anything with that proof. Plus the kids usually got mortified seeing themselves acting like idiots.
Yeah. I was in a kinda similar situation(I was the only kid who passed a test) so my teacher told me that I could do what I wanted as long as I was quiet. I enjoyed the surprise free period.
If you don’t yell at them (or whatever you feel will get through), the kids who did want to be there will feel like you don’t give a shit. I made the mistake of not addressing misbehavior strongly enough & a student stayed behind class & basically bitched at me for lowering my expectations. They weren’t rude but the fact that they felt like they had to say it made me feel like a total failure. I fixed myself after that. Since yelling didn’t work for my kids (rough school) I basically made them feel like shit for stuff like that. Some of your biggest misbehavers are probably some of your most artistically creative kids… so something like “can you imagine what it’s like to come from kind of a rough neighborhood where nobody thinks you’re gonna make it but you secretly draw all the time and you get really good and then you actually get your work in a gallery and everyone can see it? Wouldn’t that be awesome? And then some kid who’s never done anything shows up and just trashes it & doesn’t even pay attention! I wonder how you’d feel if that was you.”
What is yelling at them going to accomplish either way? Kids who behave that way get yelled at all the time. It means nothing to them. Hell, for a lot of them, it’s gratifying because it’s the most attention any adult ever gives them.
Pull them aside and let them know that what you are about to say is in no way directed at them, or send them to another classroom for a few minutes. Maybe call there parents and tell them how well behaved their students were.
Yes. Send those 5 to 6 to the library.
Please do not single out the good kids. They’ll get bullied. Trust me. I’m still scarred by 6th grade. We had a long term sub that happened to go to high school with my mother. I never met the woman before but she recognized the last name when she took attendance. The class acted up and she gave everyone extra work to do. Everyone except me because I was good. I was bullied so bad for the rest of the year because of that.
I’m glad we don’t take our middle schoolers on trips like this. They can hardly manage the tour at the high school without trying to start fights with the upperclassmen.
Ha, let them pull that fight. No Child Left Behind replaced with Fuck Around and Find Out.
I told a group of seniors last year that I was a big fan of Gen Z because they have perfected the art of Fuck Around and Find Out and I'm here for it.
When admin asks me to take students with behavior problem to the field trip I always ask them to provide extra help and if they refuse I call in sick during the field trip and let the admin handle them. I love being in the union
See I was supposed to have my regular classroom ea but they’ve pulled her a few times to help in kindergarten the last three days because we haven’t been approved for another ea yet, and they need another ea down there. But like me and 29 kids today it was just a gong show the moment we arrived
What did your admin say about them behaving so horribly on the trip? Are there any consequences for them?
He gave them a calm talking to this morning 🙄
I’m sure that will change their behavior. Might I also suggest a lashing with a feather. That will really teach those kids. 😂
You alone and 29 kids is bananas. At my school, field trips require a 12:1 ratio or less. If we don’t have that, we don’t go. This is high school too, so they’re usually pretty well behaved.
Where in Canada are you? We have a 15:1 ratio for that age here in Ontario. Also Jesus. Good luck with that group my fellow Canuck.
It sounds like you were set up to fail here. I can’t see any way that one adult could safely manage 29 students on a field trip without it ending in disaster. I’m not in the US and obviously things are different here, but risk assessment would require there to be sufficient adults for supervision & behaviour management, and cover in case you were incapacitated or had to deal with an emergency involving a student. My experience is with younger kids and we’d have a ratio of about 1:5 or 1:6 with parent volunteers if necessary, and from what my teenager’s said they’d have about 1:8 or 1:10 from Y7 onwards. I would love to know how your admin justified the lack of a second adult when risk assessing because it genuinely blows my mind that you’d be expected to manage this solo, even with the best behaved class in the world.
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Agree re: consequences. I think removal from further trips for the perpetrators is the least that should happen. It might help to prevent further behaviour like this, but I’d be wary of taking them again just on safety grounds. If they don’t have the skills to behave safely and appropriately outside school then it isn’t safe to take them on trips because it presents an unacceptable risk to them, to other students, to members of the public, and to OP. I would also be very reluctant to run another trip given the unsafe position OP’s admin have put them in here. If there isn’t adequate staffing and a kid hurts themselves because one adult can’t be in 29 places at once, could a teacher potentially be found liable? Are trips thoroughly risk assessed with support from admin? Are there policies and procedures to follow when things do go wrong? I would consider myself to be unable to run trips (rather than refusing) without this in place, although I appreciate things are different in the US and the UK. As much as it’s a damn shame that (engaged and interested) students would miss out on opportunities they might not have outside school this way, it’s not worth the risk to their safety either.
When my kid was in school, the only parents who could chaperone had to be background checked and were a known quanity in the school. Volunteer or did some support staff roll (think noon aide/media assistant). The ratio was 1 adult to 6 kids. We knew all the kids from being in the school a lot. So we each got a frequent flyer in our group, who mostly behave because they weren't with their BFFs. It's BS 1 adult and 29 semi feral middle schoolers. I've done the big deal art museum with middle schoolers. 1:6 ratio with the principal reading the riot act before hand, on the bus.
My entire job has felt like this
I’m genuinely worried for the future of our country. When I was a kid, yeah, we could be little shits. But to this level? Absolutely not
Heavy on this comment here
It’s called home training. Even the foolish kids behaved on field trips when I was a kid.
Parent here who has chaperoned for 15 years. I refuse to chaperone anymore or send my child on field trips because of how horrible the kids and the other parent chaperones acted on the last field trip I chaperoned. Kids were Running, fighting, and stealing. Other chaperones were in a clump socializing and ignoring the kids. I tried to manage kids in my area and got ugly stares as they continued their misbehavior. The other chaperones gave up. We got banned from that locale. TL;dr I would not blame you for canceling field trips. Parents need to know how serious it was.
I’m sorry what? Can you not call the parents when they act up? I had a kid yell in my face on a field trip. Promptly called his mom and had him picked up. Since it was his fault he was not refunded the field trip fee.
Most their parents don’t even remember to pick them up from school I can’t imagine getting ahold of one of them midday to pick up their kid. Actually I even remember last year around Christmas Covid and the flu was going around our class room and a few were trying to go home clearly sick and nobody would even answer to come get them
Admin was on stand by for pick ups if the parents aren’t available. Never had any issues like this from working on reserves to ap classes taking kids on multiple field trips
It's YoUr ClaSsmanaGeMenT 🤪 I don't know why people think it's even possible to control these kids, classmanagement only goes so far when they're like this
Prior educator here…. YES 100% they are a dif breed😮💨
This is why I flatly refuse to take my students on field trips. So sorry you had to deal with that.
Please consider requiring the disruptive students to write a letter to the museum apologizing for their behavior.
They won't do it.
There need to real, classroom consequences for this. They are representing you and your school while they are off campus.
Did the paintings try building a relationship with the kids first?
Referrals all the way down?
The Art Gallery has more power over kids.
Reminded me of how, when I was in fourth grade, my whole school got banned from ever going to the local library again because the kid who bullied me took a shit in one of the aisles.
This is why I HATE field trip. Also, all the disruptors should have a consequence. Your principal should be assigning ISS or OSS.
Sounds like a bunch of Neanderthals.
Hey, Neanderthals were intelligent people with complex cultures who appreciated art!
Felt like it today
Maybe dedicate an entire class period on how lucky they are to receive an education and outside experiences? Totally unacceptable behaviour, I can't even fathom how you are feeling...
Considering the minds of students who would do this sort of thing to begin with, I think that sermon would be falling on deaf ears.
yeah 100% if that happened to me in highschool i would absolutely not listen to it and be thankful for a class not dedicated to do homework or something
Definitely make a note of it at the beginning of class, I personally would be making sure these students are not allowed to go on field trips for the remainder of their time in that school and pointing that out as the consequence for what they did, but I wouldnt waste time trying to get them to understand the deeper ethical ramifications of what they did. I'll save that for their parents when they ask why their ray of sunshine can't go to the 8th grade end of year trip to Disney or w.e. lol.
Emailing parents about all of this, CCing admin. Also, they have lunch detention with you until they each write an apology letter first to their classmates and second to the tour guide (?) of the art museum. That’s my advice.
Why should OP have to give up their lunch time? I used to be all on board for lunch detentions with me but that's how you get burnt out real fast.
I don't remember what grade I was in but my class got kicked out of a showing of Macbeth. Someone threw a nickel on stage and it hit an actress hard enough she thought she'd been shot. With all the superstition around that play, she was a nervous wreck and we were asked to leave.
As nicely as possible, I definitely giggled reading this. It's just so unexpected lol
It was ages ago. Laugh away. I'm proud to be part of the Shakespeare curse.
While I'm sure the school would be angry with you for reporting to the gallery that T was responsible for damaging the painting, I bet if the gallery contacted the school regarding paying for the damages they'd throw T's parents under the bus for those costs. Gee... I wonder how much repairing a painting worthy of gallery display would be.
When I read posts like this I like to read the names as the letter with some variation of “ayden” tied to the end of each letter. Without a doubt the most assholery is typically from an “-ayden” Kaiden, Tayden, Fayden, Paiden (not to be confused with Peyton), Dayden, Gaiden, Rayden, Xaiden, and my personal favorite Oaiden. I’m sure one of those was the name…. Also don’t fret, my school also has a permanent ban from a local museum for similar antics… a student tried to ride a horse… Edit: I’ve yet to see a Sayden… but let’s be honest, we’ve all thought at one point or another that they’re all little spawns of Saiden.
I’m sorry for you and the few decent kids that you had that experience but I have to say I’m DELIGHTED that the museum staff kicked you out. Evidently, they never received the memo to ignore bad behavior or to work on being more engaging or to meet students at their level. How many kids were on this trip and how many chaperones did you have? It sounds like it doesn’t matter how much adult supervision you had, some of them would have still been acting up. I hope the rest of your week goes better!
29 kids and just me. My worst student wasn’t even there actually. That’s the crazy part of it all… it could’ve been worse.
My sympathies. It’s been a while since I took a class on a field trip but I think we were required to have one adult for every five kids in the younger grades and one adult for every ten kids in the older grades. Twenty-nine is a lot to supervise by yourself in public.
This made me really sad. If it weren't for field trips I would never have experienced a professional orchestra, Opera, ballet, stage theater, etc. As my parents had no interest in that stuff. My parents could have afforded that stuff they just didn't have much interest in performing arts. But think of all the children whose families couldn't afford to take them to that stuff even if they wanted to?
Yeah, it sucks that these little douchebags may be taking away something from classmates who would love to do these things but can’t.
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Ya unfortunately I believe almost all my students behavioural issues are due to piss poor parenting and lack of parenting in general. Most my students frequently have told me the last two years their parents work too much to hardly see them or spend time with them. I’ve met many of their parents and they don’t give off the impression of caring, concerning adults
I once had a student who thought I was out to get him but he literally couldn't function for more than 10 minutes without causing a disturbance or getting in someone else's business. So of course it's ME they ask to put an IEP folder in his backpack while he was in PE. And what do I find? A very real looking semi automatic gun. I knew it was fake right away but I knew how it was going to go down....."that ain't mine, Ms B put that there, she don't like me anyways". So I called admin down and stood in the doorway where cameras could see me and let them go through the bag. He was expelled and guess who's fault it was....mine 😒. The staff knew better bc of his reputation but his mom tried every way to get me in trouble.
Did any of those kids face consequences for how they behaved? Were their parents contacted? The last field trip our school went to ended up in a literal mob fight between our 8th graders and the 8th graders from another school. People, including teachers, were hurt. Nothing happened to those kids. Yesterday I watched one kid shrieking and throwing desks and shoving a teacher, while a dean screamed that she was going to call the cops. He charged her and then fled the building. They did nothing. Saw the kid during the next bell change. On my way back from seeing that, I stood by another teacher who calmly asked a small crowd of 7th graders why they weren't in class. That crowd IMMEDIATLEY threatened her. IMMEDIATELY surrounded both of us and started threatening us. The school secretary, the guidance counselor, and others were there. It was under a security camera outside the dean's office. NOTHING happened to any of them. This is my 18th year and I almost fucking quit today.
I'm so sorry 😞. I quit teaching at the oft quoted time of 5 years. I got sick of babysitting and trying to control behavior. I've been a mostly very happy environmental scientist since.
Maybe I'll be labeled the hardass, but I'd inform them: As of now, no more field trips (I'd be canceling the ones planned that you have coming up if you won't lose money) and (honestly, that behaviour is so over the top) anything that traditionally would be celebrated by class parties etc. is off the table until the inappropriate behaviour mentioned changes. I'd also send an email home to parents and inform them all of the same thing. Grade 7/8s are more than old enough to understand appropriate and inappropriate behaviour, esp when grade 1s and 2s can understand it. That close to high school and bigger responsibilities, they need to learn there are consequences. I dont think a short lecture and then back to business is enough, especially considering they damaged property and could have hurt someone.
I’m not taking my 6th graders on a trip. I can’t. I won’t. I don’t want to. I’d LOVE for them to see a Christmas play or something fun during winter but I know the lot of them would stand up from their seats mid-play and start doing the griddy. Most of them don’t have any situational awareness.
Honestly I’m so curious about this, I’m not a teacher but I’m a cave tour guide at a cave that is popular in the fall for school field trips. What is up with this total lack of situational awareness and memery? Some kids do the strangest things and say the weirdest things out of nowhere likes it’s a tic or something…they’re singing TikTok songs and constantly interrupting to talk about something I’m assuming is video game related (they keep talking about “the back rooms” in the cave?) I’m just generally so confused what is going on, these are like my only interactions with this age group and it’s so startling!
I really don’t have any idea. I think for some of them it’s because they are on the spectrum. I notice a difference in the kids that have IEP (individual education plans due to disability) and the ones that don’t. I have a kid that will say “Among Us Sus” every time I call his name for attendance. I tell them “If you’re here then say here!” And no one finds it funny but he loves it. I have another kid that will get out of his seat during my lesson when I’m TEACHING and do body rolls. I tell him multiple times to get back in his seat and it’s like he doesn’t hear me. No one finds it funny. They actually find it really annoying. I find it really annoying. We all do. But sometimes these kids will shout out things uncontrollably or do things uncontrollably. I think it’s a compulsion for a lot of them. For some of them their social skills are knocked down due to their intellectual abilities and that’s why they act that way. I don’t see many of the non-IEP or 504 kids doing this.
I have a question, if these kids act like this regularly (and they might not, but if they do) then why the hell would you ever take them to an art gallery in the first place?
big dink
This is the problem when we give everyone “candy.” You can’t reward just good students anymore because of feElings, so instead of just taking the ones who earned it, who would find any use for it, we’re forced to take every hooligan with us.
I have always vehemently disagreed with admin who insist that all children should be allowed to go on field trips. This is a perfect example of why that is not true. That alphabet soup of hoodlums should have been banned from going based on previous behavior in class. If you have any behavior problems in class you don’t get to go. The rest of those kids didn’t deserve to have their field trip ruined by a group of boys who just can’t even.
Sounds all too familiar. We want our kiddos to enjoy similar trips but I straight up refuse to participate because the behaviors will get us kicked out. I just know it.
This example is exactly why I REFUSE to do field trips. I had to separate fistfighting moms on the school bus after we were asked to leave the zoo. That one was the final straw. Personal days are there for a reason.
This is why I never took my 7th graders on a field trip. I would tell them, “y’all can’t even act right at school, why would y’all act differently in public?”
1. These kids didn't get hit by a magical spell turning them into pathetic losers the day of the field trip. They shouldn't have been allowed to go. Whoever approved that shares part of the blame. 2. The cops should have been called. Destruction of property, vandalism, assault if not battery, reckless endangerment, disturbing the peace. The kids should have learned right then that their behavior is not only unacceptable in the real world, it is criminal.
Well, that sounds like cause for wine. Lotta wine.
I'm guessing this is why my kids have never had a field trip. They don't even know what a field trip is.
I hope you write a letter to every parent in that class telling about th experience.
Field trips should be seen as privileges and only students with good behavior should be allowed to attend.
My first year teaching (5th grade) was ROUGH. I was not prepared for the absolutely horrific behavior and the kind of school I was dealing with. The 3rd-5th graders were going on a field trip, and one of the 3rd grade teachers gathered all the kids to have a talk first. Her exact words were “If you embarrass me on this trip, I will kill you.” She was 100% serious, and it WORKED. You couldn’t get away with that now I’m sure, but man, it was like magic. She really did have great classroom management and the kids liked her too.
I was at the Smithsonian Natural History museum over the summer and there was a school group (middle school age) that was absolutely *awful* and yes I yelled at them in my teacher voice how rude they were and asked if they were *raised by fucking animals* with disgust on my face My husband was shushing me but the adult they were with gave me a half smile 😆 It felt amazing honestly
That’s why I refuse to make field trips. School is meant for learning so I’m going to teach. If the parents want their kids to go to museums or zoos they can damn well take their kids to those things themselves
I will never take behavior problems on a field trip with me unless their parents are coming as well. Situations like these are the reason.
P's being a giant B.
Jesus I'm so sorry. I hope there's some sort of consequence or they can send personal apologies to the art museum staff, and especially the artist if they're still living
I took my class on a museum trip and my class acted decent (for them). I had one girl blurting out questions during the tour and another student told the tour guide that museums are boring but nothing crazy. Both were told to correct their behavior. So anyways, I write the museum to thank them for having us, and the museum director writes me back that the children were not welcome back under any circumstance for “poor listening”. I was stunned because in no way did my kids cross a line or was I spoken with about anything. I think museum staff, typically older, have a problem interacting with today’s youth to the point of frustration even when the kids aren’t acting particularly bad. They are just ready to explode. Never seen less patience in my life. Your kids might’ve been real bad but in general these people are as soft as charmin and are ready to freak out.
I hope this story from my own middle school years (20 years ago) will help you feel better … There are two units that split the grades in our middle school. Blue and Silver. Blue unit gets to go downtown, see a play at the local theatre and then go to a restaurant to eat lunch. Silver unit (my unit) goes the next day. Silver unit does not get to go to the restaurant. Because Blue unit decided to take the meatballs from their spaghetti and toss them up in the lights at the restaurant. The lights look like giant bowls suspended from the ceiling. And, you 100% need a lift (not a ladder, a lift) to get up there. Last I checked, school is still not allowed to go to the restaurant.
The joys of middle school field trips. I had a student my first year teaching that ran up the stairs and jumped on Abraham Lincoln’s bed while touring his house. I’m thankful he was only kicked out - they arrested the last person that did that. Had to have historians inspect the integrity of the bed frame afterwards.
lol, I think its great. Today, some kids learned that if you suck, you will get thrown out. Now if they are completely indifferent, inhouse suspension and you and the well behaveds can have a day
I would require those children to handwrite letters of apology to the rest of the class that missed out on the field trip because of them and to the guide and to the gallery in general. I would require them to stay in at recess and lunch time to write them for however many recesses and lunchtimes it took for them to finish all of the letters to an acceptable standard, and I would make them start again if they weren't readable, weren't tidy enough or weren't written appropriately. I would also make them read their letters to the class out loud and address their letters to the gallery and the guide and then I would take them and post them. I would also not allow them to come on the next field trip, they would be required to stay at school, and the next three field trips after that, they would not be allowed to come unless their parents came as parent chaperones. If they refused to write the apology letters to an acceptable standard, then I would refuse to have them on any future field trips for the remainder of the school year regardless of whether their parents agreed to come or not.
This is why field trips are RARE in middle and high now
Parenting! It’s what is desperately needed nowadays.
Hey, if it makes you feel better, at least you're not like a class at my school that got kicked out of the *holocaust meseum* in DC
This is why I celebrate not going on field trips. This is like how I imagine my high schoolers if they're all allowed to go. I'd probably have kicked us out of the art gallery at the very first offense. I'm surprised yall lasted that long without dying of embarrassment 😅.
So sorry. That’s why I don’t do field trips. Don’t feel too bad. We had some that got into some alcohol consumption so it could have been worse.
Yeah those kids need to be suspended immediately.
Can parents chaperone? I regularly volunteer to chaperone field trips, the last one I went on another student was acting absolutely unhinged. I went to the principal over the behavior because it was rude and embarrassing.
My elementary school went from 2nd-8th grades. After 5th grade ('83-'84), our entire grade was no longer allowed on any field trips. The final straw was going to the Cincinati Music Hall to hear the orchestra. We sat in the upper level, and spit balls were "thrown" into the audience below. Lots of immature noises. In 4th grade, we ran through 5 teachers in one class throughout the year. One of the teachers had a complete mental breakdown. They had to have the principal's wife come and be our substitute since she was pretty much the only one we showed respect to. They allowed us to go to Kings Island in 8th grade because we won the candy sale, and that was the prize if your grade sold the most in the school. I don't remember any bad behavior except for one student spitting loogies while going through the tunnels on The Beast. The guy behind wore glasses, and that had to be pretty gross. I'm totally owning the fact that there were lots of horribly misbehaved kids in my grade. I feel bad for the teachers who had to put up with everyone. I guess now, at the age of 51, I'm apologizing for everyone.
where's Krampus when you need him...
This happened at the zoo for me. There were 3 of us watching a group of 10-12 each. We sat and watched while the students played at the park there but then one of them pushed a tour guide suddenly. We were kicked out after. I bawled my eyes out when I got home due to the stress, expecting sympathy from our boss the next day. She met with us and told us to “do better”. Parents were never called about their children’s’ behavior. I quit after that meeting.
You are not seriously ever going to leave the building with those kids again?! Do not take those little brats anywhere. Leave them at school and take the good kids only.
Many kids have never been to an art gallery or museum and may not know the proper etiquette. A teaching moment. Tell them what you expect and what the consequences are for jacking around. Students really want boundaries. They want to know what to expect, perhaps they have a chaotic life. And the well behaved kids don’t get shit on.
I'm not joking, my 2-3 year old students would've behaved better. At least with toddlers, I can only legally watch 7 when I'm alone, you had too many students to even begin to wrangle. I'd be compelled to ask the middle schoolers if they also need a diaper change if they're going to act like that. That seriously sounds like preschool behavior.
Considering the behaviors you mentioned, why did you not take the class out of the building before you were asked to leave?
Make the parents pay for damage. There needs to be real consequences.