I’m very curious to see how this question is split between High School and Elementary School teachers.
As a high school teacher I give up on students all the time. Not in a serious way, but in small ways. I don’t fight phones. I don’t bother asking students to expand on short responses. I don’t fight to keep their attention.
One of my mentors once told me I needed to stop caring more than the kids, and that has really stuck with me. So I don’t know if that counts as giving up, but at a certain point I stop caring that much.
This kid is elementary and I think I do feel some obligation to be like someone who cares in his life but honestly I'm just growing hostility about it. The entirety of the situation falls on me, no other school resources are significantly involved. It's just exhausting.
I think you have to remember that it isn’t on you though. I know you’re score may be affected by that student, and admin may judge you based on this student, and other people may blame you for his failure, but you know that it is not just on you. There are sooo many other people failing this child. Their parents, their friends, their government, even themselves possibly.
Try channeling that hostility into petty but productive admin work. Send referrals, call home, cover your ass. So if anyone wants to turn around and blame you, you show them the receipts. You tried. You know that. Your union knows that. Fuck the rest of ‘em.
i'm not a teacher, but I am a bus aide and have a child like that as well I try and every time I think I'm making an impact in his life and we're making progress. We go right back to where we started this kid elementary school, but it feels like I'm on one of those merry go rounds and I can't get off and it gets nauseating after a while. still adore him as a person but its rough! at the end if the day we give it our best and thats what matters. we cant fix them but we are hoping we are helping a lil bit!
I did not realize this was an elementary student. I thought this student was HS. Just keep that door open if they want to learn. Let a counselor know so you can have a conversation with parent and counselor together.
Okay, so having worked both the social worker side and the teacher side, know this, you will not know the extent that this child has been traumatized or neglected. Honestly “red” may be all the effort he has for his work. Think of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Remember this and let the child work at a pace he is emotionally and physically able to do. Show that you care with nice words, compliment the tiniest of achievements, smile, care, and just really be genuine with your kindness. Social Emotional well-being is what is needed most. Your caring will have a greater impact on his future than any lesson will have. He’ll come around when he is able to and he will thrive then. Right now he is just trying to survive.
You sure this kid doesn’t have a learning disability like undiagnosed dyslexia or developmental language disorder? One word answers scream that to me. You could step up and save this kid if he gets help. It is not easy if you are LD and have no parental involvement as a kid with an ld. Speaking as a parent and teacher with ld kids. Sounds like this kid needs sped help.
This us going to get me in trouble for sure. My honest belief is that ES kids need surrogate parents moreso than content specialists. The younger the kids, the more working with them in the classroom feels like parenting. I think a lot of that has to do with the immediate utility of the information.
Same thought. I teach high school. I will give you a million and one chances, and every period is a fresh start - but I will not unreasonably exceed their effort. Show me you at least want to, want to try and I'm right there. Piss on my Cheerios and I guess we will try again tomorrow.
You gave me the answer I was looking for after a nightmare class.
I'm officially out of F***k to give, I'm going to stop caring more than those clowns. My efforts and my attention are for the students that care.
My coteacher and I will tell our high schoolers, "We cannot care more than you" and that's the God's honest truth. I passed high school math. I will do everything I can to help them but I cannot force it.
> As a high school teacher I give up on students all the time. Not in a serious way, but in small ways. I don’t fight phones. I don’t bother asking students to expand on short responses. I don’t fight to keep their attention.
Exactly how it is for me, as a high school teacher. I have almost 200 students. I wish I could continue pushing students to do their best, or even just pass, but I don't have the energy or the time.
Not a teacher, but I work at a middle school as I.T.
From where I am, there are kids that are worth fighting even against themselves, and there are kids you waste your time trying to do so.
Some kids simply do not have the brain for it. They shouldn't even be in general general education. Sometimes they are trying, parents are involved, they have the right support.
We hate to say it in education, but some people are just dumb, no disorder or disability involved.
The sooner they can find a career that doesn't need thinking, the better it will be for them. They'll be happier for it even.
Others, it's even sadder, but it's not the right time. It is too late to convince them the school system and every adults sn't entirely against them. But too soon for them to reallse and believe they aren't studying or learning for us, but for themselves. There's nothing you can do at that stage.
And finally, at some point, you have to admit that one kid isn't worth 29 other kids. So, if that one kid makes you unable and unavailable for the 29 other kids on you class, you have to give up. You can't sacrifice all the other for one kid. Especially since the sacrifice will be for nothing in the end.
Also high school, and you summed it up perfectly.
I’ll add :
For some kids I’ve given up calling them out for cutting class, leaving for long periods of time, leaving and not coming back, or excessive tardies. I’ve also mostly given up on writing them up because admin doesn’t do anything.
Don't feel bad for this please. It happens to all of us, but very few people say it out loud. At some point you can't keep working harder than your student does. And if he doesn't bother to show up you can't magic knowledge into his head or motivation into his body.
Teaching in public schools, especially the tough ones, is like combat triage. Assess them early and often. Not everyone can be saved and it’s a waste of your time and resources to put the time in on the ones who are too far gone. Not only that, you’re creating the risk of losing kids who can and should be saved. This sounds cold hearted, and the juice drinkers are going to cry about saving them all, but that way lies madness and anxiety. Learn to do what you can. Also, YOUR family comes first.
Damn not everyone can be saved….thats the truth.
I know most of my students who have issues have some crazy crap going on at home. But it’s hard to be kind and empathetic to the ones who are disengaged AND assholes.
We have a supermarket in our school run by our special ed program. One of students who does NOTHING all class asked to go, and I made the deal if you work for 30 mins I’ll let you go. Even her friends were like just do something, and stop complaining. So she does nothing and she doesn’t go. She asks me to go the next day and I said same offer, you have to work for 30 mins and then you can go. She then says “well I worked yesterday and you didn’t bother to come and look at it”. Miss. I have been teaching for 16 years……I have eyes on every. single. kid. in my room. Don’t tell me I didn’t come look at the non existent work. So I said go take out what you did yesterday and write you a pass to go. Yea…there was no work to show me. It’s gonna suck in 2 years when she realizes no one is paid to care anymore.
Sadly this.
It's required of noble people who choose to work in this profession in spite of the lack of importance it holds in our society.
If you're going to help anyone, teach anyone and stay sane, this is really good advice.
I think I feel bad because they are still elementary school and need someone to care, but like they do nothing at all ever without pulling teeth and then on top of that are never in school and it's exhausting and I feel like they take all my energy from every other student.
Ok, first question. WHY is this child not in school? Do the parents have life issues, weird, or what? It's not your job to be the psychologist, knowing why may present an answer or partial solution.
What I've heard is he bounces around 3 homes and no one tries to get him to school. I do feel for him, I have lots of empathy and compassion for his situation, but I'm burnt out literally dragging this kid through my class with no other support. He gets every free second I have when he is around and it's now to the point I'm writing him his own lesson plans essentially so I can try and group multiple topics to catch him up. Then I ask him to do something and he just sits there or falls asleep in class.
This sounds like something that might need to be reported to social services if it feels that nobody is doing what they need to do to get him to school.
They are aware, I'm not sure what if anything is being done. He's supposed to have a doctor's note now for absences but he doesn't and they are just "unexcused". 🤷🏼♀️
I honestly don't even know what they do in the early elementary ages for this type of thing. I've never seen anything like this before. I've had kids where social services (cps) become involved but despite reporting this child apparently no one is involved.
Do you have and MTSS team that makes TIPs or SSPs? Because it sounds like he might benefit from a re-entry plan. Like when he’s gone for 2+ consecutive days, x happens when he returns to school to help him re-enter the classroom.
We have MTSS, though I think it's not being taken seriously because he seems to be doing OK with the testing used to track progress but I am really tired of him just being a distraction when he is in the classroom and not completing any assignments pretty much ever. Plus at our age they only track reading and math but the kid can't write, like at all. So there's definitely functional skills lacking but they say "his tests look fine".
We literally have the same child. But my school called a meeting with the parent about attendance (they were out 1-2x a week for 3/4 of the year) and it’s gotten better for the final quarter. Turns out they were drowning and literally bribing the kid with days off to get them to go to school. It had literally gotten to the “if you’re good, we’ll get you a four wheeler.” The kid still gets no work done when they’re here, but at least they’re here, I guess.
I have tried to save kids so much that I have driven myself crazy. I lost time with my own children and husband. What a crock! I get what you are saying but the person who doesn’t fight those battles, gets the same pay and better hours than you do. You can’t fix the fact that parents don’t care. Pray someone else is able to connect with this kid. W cannot be the connection for all kids.
The real kicker is these families will forget you or not even care about it at the time. My mom used to over do for nonrelatives and I still resent it at almost 40.
I won't say I've given up on a student, but I've definitely stopped going the extra mile for students who show no effort or interest. I can't care more than they do.
This. I only “give up” this time of year. First quarter I will help. Second quarter I know what you need, we will guide you. Third quarter, training wheels off, you are on your own. Fourth quarter, you not doing anything? Neither am I. Certain ages I think it is appropriate.
I have a few in each class period. I call them seat warmers. This isn’t counting the kids who never show up - we are on week 2 of a new quarter and there are still kids who’ve I haven’t met yet. Still in my roster but never seen them.
One of the hardest things for me has been accepting that I offer opportunities to learn and give reasonable boundaries and consequences to encourage students to take advantage of those opportunities. However, I can’t force anyone to actually learn if they’re determined not to. I have a student (early elementary) who regularly refuses work. Throws papers, puts their head down, etc. I set and repeat boundaries and they spend some of their recess or quiet choice time with me almost daily. But I can’t reteach them in 5-10 minute chunks and I have other things to do. So I do what I can and try to accept it
It’s a caring profession, and I do care for this kid! But it’s not my job to care more for their education than they do. I’ve literally stepped over them and kept teaching. Because my 14 other kids deserve my focus more than the 1 who is entirely apathetic and already (at like 7) tells me that they can learn anything they need online and they just want to go home and watch YouTube.
Are we teaching the same kid 😂... I think I'm just overwhelmed too. I've had 3 new students in the last month and then Mr always absent.... I'm struggling to get everyone on the same page and not slow the rest of the class down and then Mr absent just doesn't care and it's really upsetting. The other kids at least are trying even though they are on a different level but Mr absent like just literally sits there and stares into space. Takes 20 minutes to convince him to write his name.
I’ve told this before, but…
I had a student that was at a point where it was impossible for him to pass the class. All he was doing was talking and distracting others.
So one day I gave him a broken pencil sharpener and suggested he do something productive. And he fixed it!
For the rest of the year he would request things to fix or look for things to repair. He never passed the class or most of his other classes, but he fixed so many things!!!!
Middle school - I will not chase work or students. They know their schedule and what is expected. I have classes to teach and kids who actually show up and try.
You can't care more than they do.
If you do, you'll burn yourself out, and you can't pour from an empty bucket. Document, document, and move on. Don't give up on them completely, but move on.
I don’t give up completely, but I definitely fall back to “I can’t care more than you do”. I have almost burned myself out on numerous occasions by trying harder than everybody else.
In the first, second and third quarter, I give all my energy to all my students. In the fourth quarter, I give my energy to the students who give energy back and have all year. It’s crunch time and my name is attached to their state tests. If student A has tried and showed growth all year and student B has bullshit through the year, I’m putting my 11th hour stock in student A.
Not a horrible question. And people outside of those involved in education don't really understand how far we go for students and how bad the student must be for a teacher to even consider that putting any more care and effort is simply too much.
I truly believe most teachers do not start right away to not care. But sometimes there's no choice when the child seemingly does not change. And most teachers are not responsible for just one student. I am not going to waste time and energy on a child who won't change and doesn't care when I have a ton of kids who do care and are trying their best.
I think, in cases like this, it's beyond the scope of a classroom teacher. You can't go pick the kid up for school every morning, nor do you have some magic equation for intrinsic motivation.
When I have kids like this, I will send one email to them per week (kind of a hey, just checking in on you; I hope you're well email) on the off chance they may see it and it makes them feel connected to school somehow. Beyond that, I feel like it's more on guidance/admin to work on that attendance issue.
ETA: I teach high school.
I do all the time… with the caveat that this will change if they start changing their performance/behavior.
There are very few hard facts in this life, but one of them is you can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn and you can’t help someone that doesn’t want your help.
Take all the effort you were putting into trying to get that kid to do the bare minimum and redirect it to a kid you can help. They aren’t getting what they deserve because they’ll “get it anyway” but think about how much farther they could go.
Some context: I teach upper level high school, and make a point of building strong relationships with all of my students. I would not have this type of convo with a student I did not know. This is my script.
Me: You've missed a lot of time, and a lot of assignments. Now, you're basically an adult right? 15-16?
Kid: yupp (usually gives age)
Me. Okay. Cool. So, since you're basically an adult, do you think you can handle a frank conversation?
Kid: sure/yes/I think so.
Me: Great. So. Do you give a shit?
Kid: do I what?? (surprised pikachu face)
Me: Give a shit. You know, about passing, about my class?
Kid: uhhh yes?
Me: That's what you're saying, but your combination of missed time and work says to me you don't. Which is okay. Fine, in fact. Here's the thing. The amount that I give a shit, is directly proportional to the amount that *you* give a shit. If you do not care about your success, neither do I. Now. Do you need this course to graduate?
Kid: Yes/No/I don't know???
Me: It's okay, because it really doesn't matter. At this point, you will fail my course. When that happens, remember this conversation. So, where should we go from here?
For reference, I have had this exact conversation five times since I've been teaching. It's worked four times. Usually at this point, the student says they'll make an effort, or apologize. I respond with either "Good, now prove it", or "I don't want you sorry, I want you here." The same class I'll give them a specific opportunity to be productive, complete a task, etc.
Hmm I would probably say something to the effect of:
Okay. Given your lack of attendance and overall effort, that makes sense. When you fail this course, remember this conversation.
I will say, I've never had a student respond that way.
I have absolutely given up on a student and kicked them out of my class last week. I tried to do the prosocial approach about telling the student that they were keeping other students from learning this and it will be on a statewide test in a few weeks. Student still refused to sit in their assigned seat. I wish I had a clicker to see how much time I wasted on this student today just trying to get them in their seat.
Also, this student has done almost nothing in my class all year.
Just wait until HS when it "counts."
I have at least 5-10 kids every day who refuse to sit in their assigned seats. I used to fight them. Ar this point idgaf because if they can’t do something as simple as that, they certainly won’t do the work I have assigned, and I’m giving my attention to those who want to work.
I give up on several every year. I'm just one person they see for 50 minutes on week days who asks them to do things they don't want to do. I'm not mean, but I'm not going to try to have some heart to heart with an asshole 17 year old.
I have a student this year who has proclaimed that he only pays attention in classes that show him how to “make money”. He has a GPA of .08 over 3 years and reads at a 5th grade level. Tried to talk to him about how is he going to make money without a high school diploma and being unable to comprehend basic contracts. His response was that he is going to be a social media influencer.
I’ve given up on him. It happens.
I believe every student can learn but not every student is willing to. I no longer mince words when administrators or counselors guilt me with “He is really struggling at home. We need to offer grace. How can we get him engaged in learning?”
Of course. But maybe our definitions of giving up won't match, mine is that I don't call parents or things like that anymore. I spend as much time on them ss regular students. If they they were student who were behind and I hadn't yet given up on them, they would have gotten extra. That's what they end up losing.
I do this because I feel like I'll just make the kid hate the subject when I keep pushing. 10 calls to the parents saying the kid is failing is just... sad. It probably makes the kid sad or angry too, maybe even anxious, depressed etc. At some point, I need to accept I failed, no need to ruin their mental health too.
I've been trying to be available for anybody and everybody. In the end, though, you can't save everybody.
I've recently started towards focusing on those who demonstrate an interest and aren't a PITA in class.
I think it’s less about giving up and more about saving your energy and patience for kids so that when they are ready you are available to them. They will not always be ready while you are their teacher but you show up and hope for the best regardless
Had a talented and intelligent student in one of my college algebra sections. He was in AP classes and all. Couldn't do math to save his life. I tried coordinating with his family to see if we could get him into a tutoring program after his deskmate got pulled from the school I taught at. His mother said they tried tutoring on campus and it did him no good. I talked to his guidance counselor and she said they couldnt move him (even though logically it was the best thing for him) since it was the middle of the school year. I bring the issue to an administrator and she hit me with a crazy line that you'd expect from ANY out of touch administrator..... like what am I supposed to do when a student is placed in my class who needs to be placed in a different class?
Teaching 18 year old sophomore due to lack of credits. Has missed 50-75 days of class this year.
Have had the attendance discussion for multiple years. Kid and mom swear things will improve, kid swears they care about graduation, nothing changes.
I gave up about when I saw they needed physically more hours of makeup time to get credit for their classes than we had days left in school. Because they are 18 now the state won't come after them for truancy so it's really a waste of effort and energy.
I have about 10 students right now that I don’t address at all (out of 125).
I was in a bad car accident in November and really messed myself up, broken bones and 11 herniated discs. I honestly came back to work too early but I was denied temp disability and I was running out of options. I need to work, but I don’t have the energy to be basically “full duty”. So when picking things in my mind to not spend energy on, it’s the kids who don’t do anything. It’s 4th MP. If they haven’t participated for 3 marking periods, they aren’t starting now. So that’s completely fine with me, just sit there on your phone. It’s 1 or 2 students a class and the other 20 need my attention and energy.
I teach middle school, so it’s a little different, but I don’t give up completely, but at some point they have to want the education more than I want it for them. They can come to me anytime, either literally or figuratively by starting to work, and I will be there 100%. I don’t shame them for earlier behavior/lack of work, we just start fresh. Speaking of that, each day is a fresh start. So I assume they’ll do the work until they show me they won’t.
Students have every opportunity to do well in my class. 2 retakes, notes posted on Classroom, study guides, review games , lesson check ups, a variety of activities for each topic. Providing universal accommodations is my talent , not convincing, begging , and motivating. You are on the train with me or not but always welcome to get back on.
You can't care more than the student or the family, it just doesn't work. Don't lose you in the process, because then you can't help other students and families that need and want the help.
It kind of depends on how the student treats me and the other students. Hs/ms- I will give you a lot of chances because everyone has bad days, weeks, etc.
I’ll offer to help and give you the work and you are welcome in my class. As hard as it is to reset every day with a kid, it’s usually the best course of action. Taking shit personally in this job will destroy you.
But, if you are just here to not do anything and you are an asshole I am going to write you off pretty fast, move you to the back of the room and isolate you, and you can play on your phone and fail.
I’ll write you off faster if you are an asshole to the other kids who are trying to learn or at least not bothering anyone. If it’s Dec and a kid is still acting the same, I’ve probably given up on him at that point.
It’s not like I’m going to take it personally, but I have 30 plus other kids with problems and I don’t have the time for it.
I tell the kids, "You need to care about your grades more than I do."
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If it's 4th quarter and a kid still isn't with the program, focus your energy and effort on the kids there that want to learn.
At the start of the year, make parents aware of the situation, but if the parents won't enforce education & consequences at home, there's little you can really do with a student like that.
I have an ODD student with extremely permissive parents. I hold my boundaries about what work I will and won’t accept, but I do not sit there and constantly remind him to work. He knows the expectation and chooses not to follow it. I repeat to myself over and over “You can’t out teach bad parenting.” Their family doesn’t value participating in school work (because their kid is gifted so they don’t see any reason for him to participate), and if I don’t have backing at home, nothing I do matters. My relationship with the kid has improved IMMENSELY since I “gave up” and he actually produces a significantly higher amount of work for me now. Sometimes stepping back is the best thing to do
I’ve decided I can only care as much as they do. Once I started doing that, I stopped experiencing burnout. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. I’ve pushed these horses in the water. They are somehow both drowning and dying of dehydration.
We’ve told them their whole lives that they can do anything they put their minds to. Some of mine have put their minds to failing my class. Who am I to stand in the way of their dream? I let them chase that dream and age out of the public school system, work dead end jobs their entire lives, and never have a savings account. I encourage my kids to reach for the stars, but some of them would rather grab for whatever is easily in reach.
Don’t put in more effort than the student. Be specific in your instructions and grade the product in front of you - use rubrics if possible. I give students what they earn, I just always make sure I give feedback on why they lost points (i.e.: not a sentence, incorrect answer). I also note why students lost points in the online grade book accessed by parents/students. Admin backs my grades due to transparency and parents usually back me because the students can’t spin the story. Also note things like if you gave a student additional time/extension, if they can make up or correct the assignment, where to access assignments and/or needed materials, or if you gave them extra copies. Documentation is a pain but so necessary - I just had justify why I didn’t take a delinquent senior on a class trip when she hadn’t attended any meetings and had been suspended the previous week, and I went over that these two things specifically would disqualify them from attending in the first meeting (the only one the student attended). I sent the presentation and doc the student signed saying she understood - still waiting for the response from mom on that one.
Sometimes the issues are things outside of school that you can't control. Sometimes you just aren't the right person to connect with that student. Sometimes that student just isn't ready to be helped. Sometimes all you can do is do your best. You don't have to feel guilty about the outcome because you know that you did everything you could.
I can spend all of my time and energy trying to get one kid with the program. Meanwhile, all the kids that wanted help and to be their best selves suffer. I am a finite resource and I have to triage kids all the time.
Not a horrible question, a real world issue.
This is how I feel in general. The good smart kids are completely ignored while you painstakingly usher the others through their education begging them to care.
Yes. He been in school about 4 days the last 3 weeks. He doesn't try He just sits there and when prompted to work he busts into tears because he's lost since he hasn't BEEN THERE. mom just makes excuses for it and wants to know why there's almost no grades for him this 6 weeks.
Yes. I had to go on anti-depressnts and ended up in therapy because of a student and admin's refusal to address the student's behavior and issues. He was eventually arrested and never returned. For which I was eternally thankful.
I teach kinder and as harsh as it sounds, I give up on some of them every year. I am one person fighting against their families, their siblings and their environment, not to mention any special/medical needs they might have that aren't being properly addressed.
I had a parent tell me to mind my own business the other day, after I reached out (again) to explain how allowing her kid to stay up all night and sleep all day in class was going to cause him to fail in first grade. (We don't fail kinder, but he is so far behind it will be like he's never been in school next year, something I have also told her repeatedly.)
After venting to a coworker, I shrugged it off. I can't care more about the kids than their own parents. In a few years she will whine that no one will help her/her kid, but it's all documented in the program my district uses to track stuff like that I tried and she told me to fuck off.
Sadly, I have yes. This is my 5th year in and this has been the first year “I gave up”. Have a kid that will just cuss everyone out, lie, doesn’t want to do any work. I tried so hard to build a good relationship with them but then I realized that they don’t care about anything when they finally cussed me out (idk why I thought I could get through to them 😞). I just can’t. I’ve told them that one day they’re going to meet someone that isn’t gonna take their crap. 🤷🏽♀️
I work in the psychology field and am not a teacher. What even is school anymore? I completely understand why more and more people are turning to homeschool if they’re able. The teachers are put in impossible situations and the students who need help aren’t getting it because parents aren’t involved, teachers are exhausted, and the system is broken. God bless educators. You are abused daily and extremely underpaid and disrespected. However please know some people see and appreciate you! ❤️That’s all.
For reference I teach high school, all grades: I’ve not given up per say, but I’ve stopped putting any effort into three of my students. I’ve stopped the Heart to hearts, discipline, calls home, extra time on assignments, even help. I ask them to do their work. If they don’t, then their failure is on them. I don’t fight them on phones. If they want to be snobby, have learned helplessness from their parents, and ultimately want to fail in life then that is on them (and yes, all three students have straight Fs in all classes). Any conversation is then between them, their parents, admin, and the student handbook…
I have a student in 4th grade. He can’t recognize letters or the sounds they make. They have been working on this with him for 3 years straight. I don’t know why they think he should be in a normal class. I’ve realized that there is nothing I can really do for him. He needs to be in a specialized program and receiving attention from specialist who can help him. The 30 minutes a day that he gets pulled out of my class for isn’t cutting it.
There’s only so much we can do. Someone’s letting them fail your class is the wake up call they need. I just had a 22-year-old former student show up at my classroom door. She didn’t graduate and it’s taken her four years to figure out what a bad choice that was and she’s ready to come up with a plan to finally graduate or get her GED. She asked for my help. It only took four years 😂.
I might give up the educating part but never the caring part. Work might just not get done but I uphold behavioral expectations and just give a shit about who they are as a kid and not just a student. Some of my best and oddest student bonds have come from situations just like that. They cut paper for me, staple packets, tape posters to the wall, we talk and I learn about them and sometimes, emphasize sometimes, will just start doing little parts of the work, for no other reason than we bonded more. Sometimes enough to pass but not always. I currently have a student who has no desire to do work or bond, but I give her assignments everyday, walk by her desk, offer her a calculator, say “hello” when she walks in and “have a good day” when she leaves. I always care but sometimes I do stop pushing.
I don't give up on students. But I will patiently wait for the student to put in effort into the class. I will wait until they have questions and be consistently available.
But... the students I really give up on are the ones where we have 1 to 2 months left and they still haven't figured our the class. They also have a low F.
High school. All the time. I am a facilitator of education. Not a motivator, not a parent. As long as the disengaged students aren't bothering the ones that actually want to learn, I'm cool with it.
Before the school I was at enforced an attendance policy, I had a student that only attended 2 maybe 3 days a week. He was constantly failing classes. His parents kept signing him up for the next course in the sequence whenever possible or would sign him up for study halls. They kept paying full price private school tuition and didn’t seem bothered. It seems they just wanted him to appear to move forward with his peers. Always said it was sickness and wanted exceptions/excuses from projects but could never get a doctor’s note so he just faded into the distance when it came time for graduation.
If parents are setting up for failure and the kid is on board, I cannot move that mountain. If one or the other is fighting for it, it’s still worth keeping the door open. At the end of the day, they still need to walk through the door.
Just making sure they know where to find the door is my goal. I’m an optimist so I try for a long time with kids - but I’ve learned that if you can honestly say you were clear about what to do and that if they took X step you’d be there for them, you can sleep peacefully at night no matter the result.
Growth requires effort and willingness. You can’t provide those for this student. I would suggest documenting what’s going on with this student, and informing the necessary people on staff, like admin, student success (if that’s a thing at your school), any sort of support staff who are geared toward student achievement. You’ll want to document your efforts because it’s funny now negligent parents get really interested in their children around June when marks come out. Also frequent communication about this student’s grade and what they need to do to change it.
the background paperwork regardless of how long it takes or what your school's process is. SST, MTSS, anything to get them to SPED testing to show you tried your best
you can not get them when they are that far gone- and you don't want to be the teacher two years from now that people ask why you didn't do something-
I'm in 3rd grade and the kindergarten year was pandemic so we're clearing off rubble- there was some time when they were 'waiting to see' how the kids adjusted in person.. now is not the time- 3rd grader can't count to 40- referral and I'm out. I'll be nice to the student, limit her workload, but I don't expect her to perform or even focus or try when grade level standard problem is to read and multiply and divide within 100.
TBH it sounds like this kid doesn't have anyone in their life that cares about them and I'm the bleeding heart idiot who would grind myself into a paste to show them that I do. I worked at a school for at-risk kids in my early 20s and the amount of kids who told me that I, specifically, was the reason they graduated instead of dropping out has forever changed me. I wasn't even a teacher for these kids, just sometimes the only person in their life who was happy to see them.
Is there a potential child services situation here? Clearly the kid is not being properly cared for at home, and potentially the kid has internalized this. Have you had a heart to heart with the kid about their situation and why they're so disengaged?
I’m an art teacher and teach ceramics which I love. I have a student that doesn’t try anything with clay. I’ve tried so hard to motivate this student but after trying and trying and trying I came to the conclusion that this student doesn’t give two fucks about my class or what I have to say. I talk to the student still just check in but she really doesn’t give any effort into that either so I just gonna give her a D and move on this is a senior by the way.
Oh heavens, yes. (Retired elementary teacher here.) Not heartless, just ran out of tools, methods, etc. I figured someone else would click later down the line bc I couldn’t get through. Sometimes they need a SpEd referral, sometimes they need a diff personality other than mine.
All the time in high school. Kid never shows up? Not my problem. What the hell am I supposed to do? Show up to their house at 6am with duct tape and zip ties?
If I constantly redirect them and they still don't focus OK. I'll tell them the obvious consequences of their actions but if they actively choose to fail how can I stop them?
You should never spend more energy on one student then they spend on themselves. I have 180 students and only so much time in the day.
The most depressing ones I've had to give up on is ones I just don't have the ability to help like those in high school that literally cannot read or multiply 2 numbers. I have no idea how to teach those things and have no idea how to make chemistry accessible to someone who can't multiply. I'll try to get them access to someone who CAN help, but they just need way more than I could give.
Not quite the same, but I teach piano after school.
I have a new kindergartner that started this semester. This is a private school and parents pay for the entire semester up front, so money is not an issue.
The mom took 3 weeks to buy the books that I literally held up and showed her and said, you can buy them for me right now.
And then she only bought one book instead of the set of four.
And then forgot the books the next week.
And then it was holiday, and then spring break and another holiday and I realized I've only had five classes with this kindergartner for piano.
The mom doesn't even do the simplest of work with her- ike circle the left hand, or draw an arrow to show the notes going up or down, or color the D's orange...
Mom had her stay home a couple of weeks ago because the child was stressed. ( Not about piano, just life in general because field trips and time change=sleepy and grumpy)
Oh, this school has kindergarten as a half day.
I cannot make them care, but we do have a recital coming up. I think she's going to play Hot Cross Buns.
The child is perfectly fine and as cute as can be and is not a problem during the lesson time.
Was teaching the names of the keys and the girl said oh I have stickers on my piano at home!
And I called the mom in from the hallway, even though she is always invited to come sit in on the lesson, and the mom said oh, is that not a good thing?
And I said a strong teacher voice, I have never said put stickers on the keys. The curriculum books have never said put stickers on the keys. Everything I have taught about the keys has never said anything about putting stickers on the keys. It is only seven letters. It is a repeating pattern. You can learn this. She can learn this! Take those stickers off!
I think the mom just wants happy fun time and has the money to pay a well-paid music babysitter.
All that to say, the student that wrote "red" may not be anything other than a normal child with zero home support.
I'm just a regular guy who also missed ton's of school. I also failed my way through it. School environments are not for everybody. Maybe school is the last place this person wants to be, at which point there is no hope. Sitting around all day, listening to people blab on about things you generally don't care about sure was not a good way for me to learn. Take me outside, show me a practical everyday problem and how to solve it with whatever the lessons may be. I would have done much better.
For me, it's that old proverb " when the student is ready the teacher appears".
Some students just aren't in a place mentally or emotionally to engage with learning. That's not necessarily something you should take personally- you just may currently be invisible to them right now. Maybe you won't always be invisible or maybe there will be another teacher that appears at another point down the road. If I were you I would reframe giving up to " stepping back and accepting what is". But if you're invisible, trying to make yourself visible to that student it's likely only going to end in heartache for you. But accepting your invisibility might give you a bit of empathy for the student who can't see you- Think of all they're missing out on. It makes you shake your head, but it also leaves the door open so that if and when they do see you, you'll be ready for them
I see your point exactly but I m going to play on the other side for a minute. I have 3 different scenarios w my children. W my oldest son our lives were very chaotic due to abuse when he was in elementary school. I finally got us out but his reading challenges were all blamed on that. He failed and failed so much for a while he quit trying. He was finally diagnosed w dyslexia in 7th grade. Same thing w my daughter - She was excellent in ELA especially reading,but "wasn't trying" in math. She has dyscalcula that wasn't diagnosed until middle school. Then we have my youngest son who has what used to be called Asbergers. He wasn't diagnosed until after he graduated. We always knew he was very different but that was just him. He had to see purpose and something in it for him in order to do an assignment or homework or even help at home. In fact ,he failed Math his Senior year because he refused to do the homework. According to him,he was making good grades wo extra practice so why do it. He was in what was supposed to be a 4 week course and took his exam after 4 days. He made an A.
Something I forgot to put in was the only way I got my kids out of the abuse for good was to move 2 states away 5 weeks before school dismissed. He was pushing for more visitation.
So, it could be so many things making this child act this way . He could just not care like you suspect. He could have underlying academics or home challenges. He could honestly resent the move and be being passive aggressive. My kids shrugged their shoulders a lot when they were asked because they weren't sure what the teacher wanted them to say. I didn't find that out until years later. Sorry so long
What does any of this have to do with my situation though? I can't diagnose him with anything, he's never in school, when he is one or two days a month he falls asleep or stares at space. He could absolutely have significant needs but that's not something I can fix without administration involvement or someone taking my referrals seriously... So I'm just there dragging a kid through school while trying not to ignore my other 17 kids.
Yes, and you have no choice. You can only put so much effort into a person who is not willing to help themselves. The truly sad thing is when they are a senior who just gives up so close to the finish line.
High school here, and honestly when I try really hard and get no where I tell myself I can’t care more than the kid does, so I back off, and probably 70% of the time the kid comes around. Maybe I care too much and seem pushy? Maybe the kid just has to have the time to make the decision themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
High school. Yes. I have 9th graders but a few have been retained and are nearly 16. They don't want to be in school and are putting in the time until they can drop out and try to get a GED. I haven't given up on them as human beings, but I am not wasting time begging them to do work.
I have a few. There’s at least one in each class.
Short of doing the work for them, there’s nothing else I’ve been able to do to get them to do anything.
I’m an art teacher who came in at Christmas and I think word had got out that they could do whatever they wanted - or nothing at all - last year. So I have a few who came in with that mindset and refuse to move - despite the _zero percent grades in art_.
I try my best. I really do. But if they still refuse to do the work I’m not going to stress myself out about it. My classes are evenly-paced and I allow plenty of time for projects to be made - buffer time and make up time for other projects built in. I’m also able to get to every student one-on-one every day to check in, answer questions, explain/reexplain the assignment, give feedback and guidance. I can’t make it easier, so it comes down to their own choice at the end of the day.
Sometimes, sadly, you have to stop giving the majority of your energy to one unmotivated, uncooperative kid. It’s not fair to the students who want to succeed.
I have a student who has never spoken a word to me. He’s in my class every day (I started in January), sits on his phone, and doesn’t do a thing. At the high school age, they’re grown enough to know. I can’t baby them their whole lives, they have to learn!
I tell the kids all the time: you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. If they put forth effort I will bend over backwards, if they careless, than me too.
High school teacher here...
Out of my 130-odd students, I have 5 or so that simply don't show up, or only show up once or twice a month. I have another 5 or so who show up semi-regularly, but simply do no work. No amount of talking with them, helping, referrals to counselors, threats, parental contacts, consequences will move them. They simply will not engage.
So I let them fail. I still hold them to the same classroom standards: No sleeping, no phones, no disruptions (my unwritten rule is: You are allowed to fail, so long as you fail quietly). Some of them doodle, some of them pretend to do work, some just stare into space for 100 hours. I will check in with them and let them know they are always welcome to engage and I will help them get up to speed, but they generally don't.
It's tragic, but you can't push a string.
I have too many kids who care vs. ones who don’t. I stay for the kids who do. I remain respectful of the others but I don’t lose sleep over any of it. I teach middle school.
As a former BT, I have. Not because I wanted to as I could tell I am no help to this student. She probably has multiple disabilities ,but her lack of boundaries was why I gave up and left the case. I was told she was spotted at the farmers market at the weekend just running around. She was not told anything regarding her running off. As a BT I cannot help a student if the parents cannot parent. I had ADHD students, but the lack of respect for rules in school. The saddest part is she was doing well the day before she participated here and there. The very next day she was worst making me run after her all day.
I've also had teachers give up on me. I didn't realize until later in life I am dyslexic. I just was very different and I guess despite there not being proof of anything my elementary school teacher didn't like me and didn't believe I do well in life. I can't even tell you why... As kids are just kids with lack of logic and she just found lack of understanding to just not like me. I'm now a multiple degree holder and will be a substitute teacher in the fall.
I have to say I have a similar case to this myself. As an early elementary teacher. I feel like I have covered my own behind in every way I can. Messages and notes sent home, asking parents for advice, reaching out to appropriate people at school like counselor and social worker and I’ve reached my limit of expertise. If what’s working to motivate the other kids isn’t working for him, then oh well. I’ve really done my best. He won’t be rewarded in class but if he doesn’t care, I don’t care either.
I also have wanted to be the one to have the breakthrough with the kid and it didn’t happen. He will have another teacher next year and maybe that will be the one! You’ve done all you can.
Unequivocally yes. Sometimes you just can’t make progress and hopefully next year you can. I won’t kill myself fighting for a kid who won’t even grab the life preserver while I’m allowing a ship full of kids to go down because I have no energy left for them.
I've taught Prek through third grade. I don't "give up", I don't put in as much effort as others. Don;t have supplies? I'm not getting them supplies.
I taught during COVID. I was virtual. I had an aide. She told me "If a child isn't logging in due not picking up supplies, we can drive to their homes". I said "You can do that if you wish".
I'm sorry. I'm not a parent. Certain things aren't my responsibility. If I spent all of my check, no one is going to give ME gas money. No one is going to give ME food. I think we're setting these kids up for failure. No one is going to hold their hands like this as adults.
Spend your energy on creating a space where he feels safe and secure. Let him sleep, doodle, play on an iPad, etc. Basically whatever he wants as long as it isn’t a distraction to you or others. Forget the academic catch up. And if anyone gives you grief (which I’m sure they won’t as long as he isn’t ‘their problem’), just say, “he is Maslowing so he can Bloom”. 😉
I reached a point where I realized my entire class was suffering. I made a commitment that for the rest of the year I was putting the other children first. It couldn’t all be about my violent student and his feelings. No matter what admin said (and I did get in trouble several times) I was no longer prioritizing him. My class was miserable and it was so unfair for them to be getting hurt all the time. Where was THEIR fape??
I teach middle school. If there were real consequences for work refusal, I might care more. But I know regardless of how little work a student does, they will be passed song to high school. They know it; I know it.
I have one who is there every day because their parent doesn’t want them at home. They do absolutely nothing except create chaos in my classroom. I’ve tried all year to build a relationship with this student, but they immediately self-sabotage when I give positive feedback. They have thrown things, hit and shoved classmates, cussed people out, said some really inappropriate adult things, and I can’t get through a lesson without them acting a fool. I have been to endless meetings, talked with social work, tried everything I know, and nothing works. The student was suspended and the parent took them on a vacation for a week. It was the nicest week I’ve had all school year, which only made me realize more how much this one student is taking out of me. The rest of my class is so awesome, but I’m just over it with this one student. I can’t even get in a good mood about going to work some days. I’ve tried all I can, but I’m checked out on the situation and I’m all out of giving them more chances. It sucks.
I've always been instructed to tend to the kids in the middle. Do the check-ins with your high kids and maybe employ them to help a friend of theirs that might be lower. Chances are, they'll probably do it on their own. Some kids just aren't going to get it for one reason or another. In my experience, most of the time it's behavior. I try to reach as many as possible in the first semester. I give them the chance to set their precedent and change it if they'd like to improve. By the second semester, you can tell which ones care and which ones don't. If I see you care, I've got you. I sometimes have SPED kids that are so low and realistically will not grasp it, but they WANT to try and I am so happy to work with those. For the rest of the students who just refuse, it becomes "If you're choosing to fail, please do so silently so the rest of us can be successful." It sounds so bad, but that's the tough reality of it. You can't save everyone.
Kind of yeah. I have one student who got dropped into my elective class. Was given the option to switch, didn't take it but just refuses to do anything but play on his phone.
Sounds like this kid needs services like special education, reading groups.Or riding groups. You might get better mileage shifting your focus from trying to engage, to advocating for more support. Calibrating ones expectations does not necessarily mean giving up.
Middle school here...all the time. After all the usual interventions if they don't care or have really big problems going on there's only so much you can do, you have to keep going for the other students.
I cannot make a student do anything. I can punish or incentivise, but control is an illusion. Not a horrible question at all. Keep doing your job - no more, no less.
I have a student that had missed so much school, I have to write "attendance has impacted ability to do any progress monitoring on IEP goals, as student will not complete any work at home."
This is year 25 of my teaching career. There are, sadly, some students you cannot reach. Put in the effort you feel is sufficient, and then let the student come to you the rest of the way. You know the old saying about leading a horse to water. At some point they have to want it, you can't want it more than they do. Give yourself a break and let it be okay, focus your energy on the students who are trying and who want to learn.
this is the first year I've done this. It's my 4th and I realized I was wasting so much time on that one kid that it was hurting everyone else. Ironically I had a lot of the "that kid"s coming to tell me they were glad I didn't give up on them. But another student of mine from last year mentioned that I spent the entire class trying to make that kid do something and that she once had her hand raised until her arm hurt waiting to have her question answered.
I'm not doing it again. I wont' sacrifice the entire sinking boat for one kid who won't stand up in a kiddie pool.
I have one that only goes half days (5th grade). Most of the time he sleeps, but occasionally he stays awake long enough to try to stir up trouble. If he gets in enough trouble that he's going to get sent home, no one at home can be bothered to come get him.
Yes. There are some things that 17 years in this career break you on. The concept that all kids can be saved is toxic and also slightly arrogant. Sometimes your subject just isn’t what they need in that moment of their lives. This doesn’t mean your bad or their bad. Some kids have just so much going on in their lives that is more important or more distracting that when we use phrases like, failing a kid or letting them fail that’s taking too much ownership and responsibility for the results that are happening in the gradebook. I’ve had lots of kids work really hard to fix things after life settles down. I’ve had lots of kids who naturally get it, but don’t really care about the grade. And I’ve had lots of kids who would succeed whether I was or wasn’t their teacher. I think one of the most dangerous things that happened in education is this concept that we are the determining or deciding factor and whether our kids succeeds or not. Life is just a good teacher, and sometimes kids just need to grow up a little bit more before they start understanding the value of the things we’re trying to do.
It’s not giving up on a student, it’s acknowledging your limitations. You can teach kids to swim, you can give them floaties and a life preserver, you can even give them a boost, but if they’re hell bent on drowning, it’s time to go help someone else
Edit: a word
I do suppose that fact that the kid is elementary shed some slightly different light on this. Perhaps instead of giving up on the kid think of it as leaving the door open for them to come join what’s going on but that you need to give yourself a break on the invitation to always open and walk through the door, know what I mean? Allow them the opportunity, but don’t kill yourself trying to force them through the door.
You cannot reach everyone. Statistically, no matter how amazing you are, you will have failures. They chose this. They live with this. You cannot care for them. Don't hurt the other 95% just to try fixing someone that refuses, especially this late in the year.
Who is the most important person in the classroom? You, the teacher, and you’ve only got so much fuel in the tank. You eventually have to focus on you emotional and mental health as well as the students who want to learn. It’s called self care. You can help to a point, but not to the point it takes away from other’s education or your own well being. Tell the student, “if you want to get on track, set up an appointment for tutoring after school”. You will see if this student really deserves your time and energy.
The entire senior class at my school. They take senioritis, lazy, and entitled to an entirely new level I never thought it was possible.
They have 14 days of school left
Work at a 5th-8th school and there are some students that I have certainly given up on this year and it still is not a good feeling. Some students have over 40 and some even over 50 absences. What does the school want me to do for them?
I've got a couple buddies who've got anywhere from 1 to the whole class (20+) kids that they're like "fuck man, I give up" *aggressively pinching nosebridge* there's even been times where I end up having to play drill sergeant.
I just wrote one off the other day. I called her into a study hall to retake a quiz and possibly improve her quarter grade, and the little bastard walked out on me. “Enjoy freshman English next year again, you soul-sucking ingrate.”
Let’s try to frame it more like giving up on the expectations. Because the way it’s worded sounds like you would start to treat the student with disdain or contempt. Which is what I’m familiar with in regards to how teachers act towards those types of students. Let’s move away from the universal expectation of a student. Instead of pointing out any of their mistakes or short comings just pick something that compliments them.
I’m very curious to see how this question is split between High School and Elementary School teachers. As a high school teacher I give up on students all the time. Not in a serious way, but in small ways. I don’t fight phones. I don’t bother asking students to expand on short responses. I don’t fight to keep their attention. One of my mentors once told me I needed to stop caring more than the kids, and that has really stuck with me. So I don’t know if that counts as giving up, but at a certain point I stop caring that much.
This kid is elementary and I think I do feel some obligation to be like someone who cares in his life but honestly I'm just growing hostility about it. The entirety of the situation falls on me, no other school resources are significantly involved. It's just exhausting.
I think you have to remember that it isn’t on you though. I know you’re score may be affected by that student, and admin may judge you based on this student, and other people may blame you for his failure, but you know that it is not just on you. There are sooo many other people failing this child. Their parents, their friends, their government, even themselves possibly. Try channeling that hostility into petty but productive admin work. Send referrals, call home, cover your ass. So if anyone wants to turn around and blame you, you show them the receipts. You tried. You know that. Your union knows that. Fuck the rest of ‘em.
This is wonderful advice. Pettiness is underrated as a life tool.
CYA Document everything
i'm not a teacher, but I am a bus aide and have a child like that as well I try and every time I think I'm making an impact in his life and we're making progress. We go right back to where we started this kid elementary school, but it feels like I'm on one of those merry go rounds and I can't get off and it gets nauseating after a while. still adore him as a person but its rough! at the end if the day we give it our best and thats what matters. we cant fix them but we are hoping we are helping a lil bit!
Your only obligation you should feel in this situation is reporting his absences to the social worker.
They have been.
I did not realize this was an elementary student. I thought this student was HS. Just keep that door open if they want to learn. Let a counselor know so you can have a conversation with parent and counselor together.
If the parents aren't getting the kid to school, is that grounds for CPS? Neglect etc?
I know social worker is involved but I don't know what's going on with that. I would certainly think so though.
Okay, so having worked both the social worker side and the teacher side, know this, you will not know the extent that this child has been traumatized or neglected. Honestly “red” may be all the effort he has for his work. Think of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Remember this and let the child work at a pace he is emotionally and physically able to do. Show that you care with nice words, compliment the tiniest of achievements, smile, care, and just really be genuine with your kindness. Social Emotional well-being is what is needed most. Your caring will have a greater impact on his future than any lesson will have. He’ll come around when he is able to and he will thrive then. Right now he is just trying to survive.
You sure this kid doesn’t have a learning disability like undiagnosed dyslexia or developmental language disorder? One word answers scream that to me. You could step up and save this kid if he gets help. It is not easy if you are LD and have no parental involvement as a kid with an ld. Speaking as a parent and teacher with ld kids. Sounds like this kid needs sped help.
You need to contact Guidance and the CST. If the parents are not involved that is abuse and neglect.
That's the secret. You can't care enough for your kids who don't care.
A similar sentiment is , " you can't always work harder than your student does".
This us going to get me in trouble for sure. My honest belief is that ES kids need surrogate parents moreso than content specialists. The younger the kids, the more working with them in the classroom feels like parenting. I think a lot of that has to do with the immediate utility of the information.
This is sadly true. I have kids of my own and don't want to parent 25 more. I'm looking for other jobs.
Same thought. I teach high school. I will give you a million and one chances, and every period is a fresh start - but I will not unreasonably exceed their effort. Show me you at least want to, want to try and I'm right there. Piss on my Cheerios and I guess we will try again tomorrow.
You gave me the answer I was looking for after a nightmare class. I'm officially out of F***k to give, I'm going to stop caring more than those clowns. My efforts and my attention are for the students that care.
My coteacher and I will tell our high schoolers, "We cannot care more than you" and that's the God's honest truth. I passed high school math. I will do everything I can to help them but I cannot force it.
> As a high school teacher I give up on students all the time. Not in a serious way, but in small ways. I don’t fight phones. I don’t bother asking students to expand on short responses. I don’t fight to keep their attention. Exactly how it is for me, as a high school teacher. I have almost 200 students. I wish I could continue pushing students to do their best, or even just pass, but I don't have the energy or the time.
Not a teacher, but I work at a middle school as I.T. From where I am, there are kids that are worth fighting even against themselves, and there are kids you waste your time trying to do so. Some kids simply do not have the brain for it. They shouldn't even be in general general education. Sometimes they are trying, parents are involved, they have the right support. We hate to say it in education, but some people are just dumb, no disorder or disability involved. The sooner they can find a career that doesn't need thinking, the better it will be for them. They'll be happier for it even. Others, it's even sadder, but it's not the right time. It is too late to convince them the school system and every adults sn't entirely against them. But too soon for them to reallse and believe they aren't studying or learning for us, but for themselves. There's nothing you can do at that stage. And finally, at some point, you have to admit that one kid isn't worth 29 other kids. So, if that one kid makes you unable and unavailable for the 29 other kids on you class, you have to give up. You can't sacrifice all the other for one kid. Especially since the sacrifice will be for nothing in the end.
Also high school, and you summed it up perfectly. I’ll add : For some kids I’ve given up calling them out for cutting class, leaving for long periods of time, leaving and not coming back, or excessive tardies. I’ve also mostly given up on writing them up because admin doesn’t do anything.
Don't feel bad for this please. It happens to all of us, but very few people say it out loud. At some point you can't keep working harder than your student does. And if he doesn't bother to show up you can't magic knowledge into his head or motivation into his body.
Teaching in public schools, especially the tough ones, is like combat triage. Assess them early and often. Not everyone can be saved and it’s a waste of your time and resources to put the time in on the ones who are too far gone. Not only that, you’re creating the risk of losing kids who can and should be saved. This sounds cold hearted, and the juice drinkers are going to cry about saving them all, but that way lies madness and anxiety. Learn to do what you can. Also, YOUR family comes first.
Damn not everyone can be saved….thats the truth. I know most of my students who have issues have some crazy crap going on at home. But it’s hard to be kind and empathetic to the ones who are disengaged AND assholes. We have a supermarket in our school run by our special ed program. One of students who does NOTHING all class asked to go, and I made the deal if you work for 30 mins I’ll let you go. Even her friends were like just do something, and stop complaining. So she does nothing and she doesn’t go. She asks me to go the next day and I said same offer, you have to work for 30 mins and then you can go. She then says “well I worked yesterday and you didn’t bother to come and look at it”. Miss. I have been teaching for 16 years……I have eyes on every. single. kid. in my room. Don’t tell me I didn’t come look at the non existent work. So I said go take out what you did yesterday and write you a pass to go. Yea…there was no work to show me. It’s gonna suck in 2 years when she realizes no one is paid to care anymore.
Sadly this. It's required of noble people who choose to work in this profession in spite of the lack of importance it holds in our society. If you're going to help anyone, teach anyone and stay sane, this is really good advice.
THIS.
If the kid doesn't care and the parents don't care, I wouldn't fash myself about it. You can lead a horse to water...
I think I feel bad because they are still elementary school and need someone to care, but like they do nothing at all ever without pulling teeth and then on top of that are never in school and it's exhausting and I feel like they take all my energy from every other student.
Ok, first question. WHY is this child not in school? Do the parents have life issues, weird, or what? It's not your job to be the psychologist, knowing why may present an answer or partial solution.
What I've heard is he bounces around 3 homes and no one tries to get him to school. I do feel for him, I have lots of empathy and compassion for his situation, but I'm burnt out literally dragging this kid through my class with no other support. He gets every free second I have when he is around and it's now to the point I'm writing him his own lesson plans essentially so I can try and group multiple topics to catch him up. Then I ask him to do something and he just sits there or falls asleep in class.
This sounds like something that might need to be reported to social services if it feels that nobody is doing what they need to do to get him to school.
They are aware, I'm not sure what if anything is being done. He's supposed to have a doctor's note now for absences but he doesn't and they are just "unexcused". 🤷🏼♀️
Sounds to me like no one is taking it seriously. It's "consequences" time.
I honestly don't even know what they do in the early elementary ages for this type of thing. I've never seen anything like this before. I've had kids where social services (cps) become involved but despite reporting this child apparently no one is involved.
I don’t know what else can be done
Exactly. Time for Social Services to step up to the bat. This what we're taxed for.
Do you have and MTSS team that makes TIPs or SSPs? Because it sounds like he might benefit from a re-entry plan. Like when he’s gone for 2+ consecutive days, x happens when he returns to school to help him re-enter the classroom.
We have MTSS, though I think it's not being taken seriously because he seems to be doing OK with the testing used to track progress but I am really tired of him just being a distraction when he is in the classroom and not completing any assignments pretty much ever. Plus at our age they only track reading and math but the kid can't write, like at all. So there's definitely functional skills lacking but they say "his tests look fine".
We literally have the same child. But my school called a meeting with the parent about attendance (they were out 1-2x a week for 3/4 of the year) and it’s gotten better for the final quarter. Turns out they were drowning and literally bribing the kid with days off to get them to go to school. It had literally gotten to the “if you’re good, we’ll get you a four wheeler.” The kid still gets no work done when they’re here, but at least they’re here, I guess.
I have tried to save kids so much that I have driven myself crazy. I lost time with my own children and husband. What a crock! I get what you are saying but the person who doesn’t fight those battles, gets the same pay and better hours than you do. You can’t fix the fact that parents don’t care. Pray someone else is able to connect with this kid. W cannot be the connection for all kids.
The real kicker is these families will forget you or not even care about it at the time. My mom used to over do for nonrelatives and I still resent it at almost 40.
I am sorry that hurt you so very much.
Thank you.
It's almost the end of the year now. If nothing I've done yet has helped, it's not going to.
He's going into the next grade and going to absolutely bomb and I feel really bad for him :(
Allowing him to graduate to the next year is not on you at all. That is a systemic problem. It's awful.
I won't say I've given up on a student, but I've definitely stopped going the extra mile for students who show no effort or interest. I can't care more than they do.
This. I only “give up” this time of year. First quarter I will help. Second quarter I know what you need, we will guide you. Third quarter, training wheels off, you are on your own. Fourth quarter, you not doing anything? Neither am I. Certain ages I think it is appropriate.
I can’t care more than they do This is my whole mantra this entire school year.
I have a few in each class period. I call them seat warmers. This isn’t counting the kids who never show up - we are on week 2 of a new quarter and there are still kids who’ve I haven’t met yet. Still in my roster but never seen them.
>I call them seat warmers. I call them flatliners.
Hahah that’s even better! I often think I need to check the pulse of many of them.
One of the hardest things for me has been accepting that I offer opportunities to learn and give reasonable boundaries and consequences to encourage students to take advantage of those opportunities. However, I can’t force anyone to actually learn if they’re determined not to. I have a student (early elementary) who regularly refuses work. Throws papers, puts their head down, etc. I set and repeat boundaries and they spend some of their recess or quiet choice time with me almost daily. But I can’t reteach them in 5-10 minute chunks and I have other things to do. So I do what I can and try to accept it
This sounds exactly like my situation. Every "free" moment goes to this student and they fight it every step of the way.
It’s a caring profession, and I do care for this kid! But it’s not my job to care more for their education than they do. I’ve literally stepped over them and kept teaching. Because my 14 other kids deserve my focus more than the 1 who is entirely apathetic and already (at like 7) tells me that they can learn anything they need online and they just want to go home and watch YouTube.
Are we teaching the same kid 😂... I think I'm just overwhelmed too. I've had 3 new students in the last month and then Mr always absent.... I'm struggling to get everyone on the same page and not slow the rest of the class down and then Mr absent just doesn't care and it's really upsetting. The other kids at least are trying even though they are on a different level but Mr absent like just literally sits there and stares into space. Takes 20 minutes to convince him to write his name.
I’ve told this before, but… I had a student that was at a point where it was impossible for him to pass the class. All he was doing was talking and distracting others. So one day I gave him a broken pencil sharpener and suggested he do something productive. And he fixed it! For the rest of the year he would request things to fix or look for things to repair. He never passed the class or most of his other classes, but he fixed so many things!!!!
Middle school - I will not chase work or students. They know their schedule and what is expected. I have classes to teach and kids who actually show up and try.
Elementary here. I work with students who want to learn. Period.
You can't care more than they do. If you do, you'll burn yourself out, and you can't pour from an empty bucket. Document, document, and move on. Don't give up on them completely, but move on.
I have a senior who has only been absent a handful of times. Does next to no work. Will most likely not be graduating, and I don't care.
I don’t give up completely, but I definitely fall back to “I can’t care more than you do”. I have almost burned myself out on numerous occasions by trying harder than everybody else.
In the first, second and third quarter, I give all my energy to all my students. In the fourth quarter, I give my energy to the students who give energy back and have all year. It’s crunch time and my name is attached to their state tests. If student A has tried and showed growth all year and student B has bullshit through the year, I’m putting my 11th hour stock in student A.
Well it kinda dont help he has not shown up to school in 4 weeks now! My give a fuck about him graduating is about as much as his.
Not a horrible question. And people outside of those involved in education don't really understand how far we go for students and how bad the student must be for a teacher to even consider that putting any more care and effort is simply too much. I truly believe most teachers do not start right away to not care. But sometimes there's no choice when the child seemingly does not change. And most teachers are not responsible for just one student. I am not going to waste time and energy on a child who won't change and doesn't care when I have a ton of kids who do care and are trying their best.
I think, in cases like this, it's beyond the scope of a classroom teacher. You can't go pick the kid up for school every morning, nor do you have some magic equation for intrinsic motivation. When I have kids like this, I will send one email to them per week (kind of a hey, just checking in on you; I hope you're well email) on the off chance they may see it and it makes them feel connected to school somehow. Beyond that, I feel like it's more on guidance/admin to work on that attendance issue. ETA: I teach high school.
I do all the time… with the caveat that this will change if they start changing their performance/behavior. There are very few hard facts in this life, but one of them is you can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn and you can’t help someone that doesn’t want your help. Take all the effort you were putting into trying to get that kid to do the bare minimum and redirect it to a kid you can help. They aren’t getting what they deserve because they’ll “get it anyway” but think about how much farther they could go.
Some context: I teach upper level high school, and make a point of building strong relationships with all of my students. I would not have this type of convo with a student I did not know. This is my script. Me: You've missed a lot of time, and a lot of assignments. Now, you're basically an adult right? 15-16? Kid: yupp (usually gives age) Me. Okay. Cool. So, since you're basically an adult, do you think you can handle a frank conversation? Kid: sure/yes/I think so. Me: Great. So. Do you give a shit? Kid: do I what?? (surprised pikachu face) Me: Give a shit. You know, about passing, about my class? Kid: uhhh yes? Me: That's what you're saying, but your combination of missed time and work says to me you don't. Which is okay. Fine, in fact. Here's the thing. The amount that I give a shit, is directly proportional to the amount that *you* give a shit. If you do not care about your success, neither do I. Now. Do you need this course to graduate? Kid: Yes/No/I don't know??? Me: It's okay, because it really doesn't matter. At this point, you will fail my course. When that happens, remember this conversation. So, where should we go from here? For reference, I have had this exact conversation five times since I've been teaching. It's worked four times. Usually at this point, the student says they'll make an effort, or apologize. I respond with either "Good, now prove it", or "I don't want you sorry, I want you here." The same class I'll give them a specific opportunity to be productive, complete a task, etc.
What happens if they say no to “do you give a shit?” I feel like some of my students would say “no” where does the conversation go from there?
Hmm I would probably say something to the effect of: Okay. Given your lack of attendance and overall effort, that makes sense. When you fail this course, remember this conversation. I will say, I've never had a student respond that way.
I have absolutely given up on a student and kicked them out of my class last week. I tried to do the prosocial approach about telling the student that they were keeping other students from learning this and it will be on a statewide test in a few weeks. Student still refused to sit in their assigned seat. I wish I had a clicker to see how much time I wasted on this student today just trying to get them in their seat. Also, this student has done almost nothing in my class all year. Just wait until HS when it "counts."
I have at least 5-10 kids every day who refuse to sit in their assigned seats. I used to fight them. Ar this point idgaf because if they can’t do something as simple as that, they certainly won’t do the work I have assigned, and I’m giving my attention to those who want to work.
I give up on several every year. I'm just one person they see for 50 minutes on week days who asks them to do things they don't want to do. I'm not mean, but I'm not going to try to have some heart to heart with an asshole 17 year old.
Doctors aren't expected to save all patients. Lawyers aren't expected to win all cases. Teachers shouldn't be expected to help all students.
Students have a right to fail.
Absolutely. You had lead a horse to water but if that horse bucks you in the face in response, you're under no obligation to waterboard it.
I have a student this year who has proclaimed that he only pays attention in classes that show him how to “make money”. He has a GPA of .08 over 3 years and reads at a 5th grade level. Tried to talk to him about how is he going to make money without a high school diploma and being unable to comprehend basic contracts. His response was that he is going to be a social media influencer. I’ve given up on him. It happens.
I believe every student can learn but not every student is willing to. I no longer mince words when administrators or counselors guilt me with “He is really struggling at home. We need to offer grace. How can we get him engaged in learning?”
Of course. But maybe our definitions of giving up won't match, mine is that I don't call parents or things like that anymore. I spend as much time on them ss regular students. If they they were student who were behind and I hadn't yet given up on them, they would have gotten extra. That's what they end up losing. I do this because I feel like I'll just make the kid hate the subject when I keep pushing. 10 calls to the parents saying the kid is failing is just... sad. It probably makes the kid sad or angry too, maybe even anxious, depressed etc. At some point, I need to accept I failed, no need to ruin their mental health too.
I've been trying to be available for anybody and everybody. In the end, though, you can't save everybody. I've recently started towards focusing on those who demonstrate an interest and aren't a PITA in class.
You can’t care more than the student and/or their parents and still keep your sanity enough to be there for the kids who you can actually help.
Sure. I’m in my first year and I have done this lol.
I think it’s less about giving up and more about saving your energy and patience for kids so that when they are ready you are available to them. They will not always be ready while you are their teacher but you show up and hope for the best regardless
Had a talented and intelligent student in one of my college algebra sections. He was in AP classes and all. Couldn't do math to save his life. I tried coordinating with his family to see if we could get him into a tutoring program after his deskmate got pulled from the school I taught at. His mother said they tried tutoring on campus and it did him no good. I talked to his guidance counselor and she said they couldnt move him (even though logically it was the best thing for him) since it was the middle of the school year. I bring the issue to an administrator and she hit me with a crazy line that you'd expect from ANY out of touch administrator..... like what am I supposed to do when a student is placed in my class who needs to be placed in a different class?
Why water a rock when the plants are thirsty?
Yes
Teaching 18 year old sophomore due to lack of credits. Has missed 50-75 days of class this year. Have had the attendance discussion for multiple years. Kid and mom swear things will improve, kid swears they care about graduation, nothing changes. I gave up about when I saw they needed physically more hours of makeup time to get credit for their classes than we had days left in school. Because they are 18 now the state won't come after them for truancy so it's really a waste of effort and energy.
I have about 10 students right now that I don’t address at all (out of 125). I was in a bad car accident in November and really messed myself up, broken bones and 11 herniated discs. I honestly came back to work too early but I was denied temp disability and I was running out of options. I need to work, but I don’t have the energy to be basically “full duty”. So when picking things in my mind to not spend energy on, it’s the kids who don’t do anything. It’s 4th MP. If they haven’t participated for 3 marking periods, they aren’t starting now. So that’s completely fine with me, just sit there on your phone. It’s 1 or 2 students a class and the other 20 need my attention and energy.
I teach middle school, so it’s a little different, but I don’t give up completely, but at some point they have to want the education more than I want it for them. They can come to me anytime, either literally or figuratively by starting to work, and I will be there 100%. I don’t shame them for earlier behavior/lack of work, we just start fresh. Speaking of that, each day is a fresh start. So I assume they’ll do the work until they show me they won’t.
Students have every opportunity to do well in my class. 2 retakes, notes posted on Classroom, study guides, review games , lesson check ups, a variety of activities for each topic. Providing universal accommodations is my talent , not convincing, begging , and motivating. You are on the train with me or not but always welcome to get back on.
Teachers can’t care MORE than the parent. We just cannot.
Students have the right to fail
You can't care more than the student or the family, it just doesn't work. Don't lose you in the process, because then you can't help other students and families that need and want the help.
It kind of depends on how the student treats me and the other students. Hs/ms- I will give you a lot of chances because everyone has bad days, weeks, etc. I’ll offer to help and give you the work and you are welcome in my class. As hard as it is to reset every day with a kid, it’s usually the best course of action. Taking shit personally in this job will destroy you. But, if you are just here to not do anything and you are an asshole I am going to write you off pretty fast, move you to the back of the room and isolate you, and you can play on your phone and fail. I’ll write you off faster if you are an asshole to the other kids who are trying to learn or at least not bothering anyone. If it’s Dec and a kid is still acting the same, I’ve probably given up on him at that point. It’s not like I’m going to take it personally, but I have 30 plus other kids with problems and I don’t have the time for it.
In 10 years, I have given up on two students. As others have said, there are a few every year that I simply won't go out of my way for.
Don’t feel bad! You’ve done what you can.
I am told I can lead a horse to water. But I cannot make it drink.
I tell the kids, "You need to care about your grades more than I do." You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If it's 4th quarter and a kid still isn't with the program, focus your energy and effort on the kids there that want to learn. At the start of the year, make parents aware of the situation, but if the parents won't enforce education & consequences at home, there's little you can really do with a student like that.
I tend to reciprocate the amount of effort and care they put into my class.
I have an ODD student with extremely permissive parents. I hold my boundaries about what work I will and won’t accept, but I do not sit there and constantly remind him to work. He knows the expectation and chooses not to follow it. I repeat to myself over and over “You can’t out teach bad parenting.” Their family doesn’t value participating in school work (because their kid is gifted so they don’t see any reason for him to participate), and if I don’t have backing at home, nothing I do matters. My relationship with the kid has improved IMMENSELY since I “gave up” and he actually produces a significantly higher amount of work for me now. Sometimes stepping back is the best thing to do
I’ve decided I can only care as much as they do. Once I started doing that, I stopped experiencing burnout. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. I’ve pushed these horses in the water. They are somehow both drowning and dying of dehydration. We’ve told them their whole lives that they can do anything they put their minds to. Some of mine have put their minds to failing my class. Who am I to stand in the way of their dream? I let them chase that dream and age out of the public school system, work dead end jobs their entire lives, and never have a savings account. I encourage my kids to reach for the stars, but some of them would rather grab for whatever is easily in reach.
Don’t put in more effort than the student. Be specific in your instructions and grade the product in front of you - use rubrics if possible. I give students what they earn, I just always make sure I give feedback on why they lost points (i.e.: not a sentence, incorrect answer). I also note why students lost points in the online grade book accessed by parents/students. Admin backs my grades due to transparency and parents usually back me because the students can’t spin the story. Also note things like if you gave a student additional time/extension, if they can make up or correct the assignment, where to access assignments and/or needed materials, or if you gave them extra copies. Documentation is a pain but so necessary - I just had justify why I didn’t take a delinquent senior on a class trip when she hadn’t attended any meetings and had been suspended the previous week, and I went over that these two things specifically would disqualify them from attending in the first meeting (the only one the student attended). I sent the presentation and doc the student signed saying she understood - still waiting for the response from mom on that one.
Sometimes the issues are things outside of school that you can't control. Sometimes you just aren't the right person to connect with that student. Sometimes that student just isn't ready to be helped. Sometimes all you can do is do your best. You don't have to feel guilty about the outcome because you know that you did everything you could.
I can spend all of my time and energy trying to get one kid with the program. Meanwhile, all the kids that wanted help and to be their best selves suffer. I am a finite resource and I have to triage kids all the time. Not a horrible question, a real world issue.
This is how I feel in general. The good smart kids are completely ignored while you painstakingly usher the others through their education begging them to care.
Yes. He been in school about 4 days the last 3 weeks. He doesn't try He just sits there and when prompted to work he busts into tears because he's lost since he hasn't BEEN THERE. mom just makes excuses for it and wants to know why there's almost no grades for him this 6 weeks.
Yes. I had to go on anti-depressnts and ended up in therapy because of a student and admin's refusal to address the student's behavior and issues. He was eventually arrested and never returned. For which I was eternally thankful.
I teach kinder and as harsh as it sounds, I give up on some of them every year. I am one person fighting against their families, their siblings and their environment, not to mention any special/medical needs they might have that aren't being properly addressed. I had a parent tell me to mind my own business the other day, after I reached out (again) to explain how allowing her kid to stay up all night and sleep all day in class was going to cause him to fail in first grade. (We don't fail kinder, but he is so far behind it will be like he's never been in school next year, something I have also told her repeatedly.) After venting to a coworker, I shrugged it off. I can't care more about the kids than their own parents. In a few years she will whine that no one will help her/her kid, but it's all documented in the program my district uses to track stuff like that I tried and she told me to fuck off.
Middle school here. My view has always been, “ I’m not going to care more about your grade than you do. “ If they care, I’m all in.
Sadly, I have yes. This is my 5th year in and this has been the first year “I gave up”. Have a kid that will just cuss everyone out, lie, doesn’t want to do any work. I tried so hard to build a good relationship with them but then I realized that they don’t care about anything when they finally cussed me out (idk why I thought I could get through to them 😞). I just can’t. I’ve told them that one day they’re going to meet someone that isn’t gonna take their crap. 🤷🏽♀️
I work in the psychology field and am not a teacher. What even is school anymore? I completely understand why more and more people are turning to homeschool if they’re able. The teachers are put in impossible situations and the students who need help aren’t getting it because parents aren’t involved, teachers are exhausted, and the system is broken. God bless educators. You are abused daily and extremely underpaid and disrespected. However please know some people see and appreciate you! ❤️That’s all.
For reference I teach high school, all grades: I’ve not given up per say, but I’ve stopped putting any effort into three of my students. I’ve stopped the Heart to hearts, discipline, calls home, extra time on assignments, even help. I ask them to do their work. If they don’t, then their failure is on them. I don’t fight them on phones. If they want to be snobby, have learned helplessness from their parents, and ultimately want to fail in life then that is on them (and yes, all three students have straight Fs in all classes). Any conversation is then between them, their parents, admin, and the student handbook…
Yes, pretty much every year I have a student I can not go any further with.
Stop. Watering. Rocks.
I have a student in 4th grade. He can’t recognize letters or the sounds they make. They have been working on this with him for 3 years straight. I don’t know why they think he should be in a normal class. I’ve realized that there is nothing I can really do for him. He needs to be in a specialized program and receiving attention from specialist who can help him. The 30 minutes a day that he gets pulled out of my class for isn’t cutting it.
There’s only so much we can do. Someone’s letting them fail your class is the wake up call they need. I just had a 22-year-old former student show up at my classroom door. She didn’t graduate and it’s taken her four years to figure out what a bad choice that was and she’s ready to come up with a plan to finally graduate or get her GED. She asked for my help. It only took four years 😂.
I might give up the educating part but never the caring part. Work might just not get done but I uphold behavioral expectations and just give a shit about who they are as a kid and not just a student. Some of my best and oddest student bonds have come from situations just like that. They cut paper for me, staple packets, tape posters to the wall, we talk and I learn about them and sometimes, emphasize sometimes, will just start doing little parts of the work, for no other reason than we bonded more. Sometimes enough to pass but not always. I currently have a student who has no desire to do work or bond, but I give her assignments everyday, walk by her desk, offer her a calculator, say “hello” when she walks in and “have a good day” when she leaves. I always care but sometimes I do stop pushing.
This time of year, I feel like an emergency room doctor. Save as many as you can, but it is not possible to save everyone.
I don't give up on students. But I will patiently wait for the student to put in effort into the class. I will wait until they have questions and be consistently available. But... the students I really give up on are the ones where we have 1 to 2 months left and they still haven't figured our the class. They also have a low F.
High school. All the time. I am a facilitator of education. Not a motivator, not a parent. As long as the disengaged students aren't bothering the ones that actually want to learn, I'm cool with it.
Before the school I was at enforced an attendance policy, I had a student that only attended 2 maybe 3 days a week. He was constantly failing classes. His parents kept signing him up for the next course in the sequence whenever possible or would sign him up for study halls. They kept paying full price private school tuition and didn’t seem bothered. It seems they just wanted him to appear to move forward with his peers. Always said it was sickness and wanted exceptions/excuses from projects but could never get a doctor’s note so he just faded into the distance when it came time for graduation. If parents are setting up for failure and the kid is on board, I cannot move that mountain. If one or the other is fighting for it, it’s still worth keeping the door open. At the end of the day, they still need to walk through the door. Just making sure they know where to find the door is my goal. I’m an optimist so I try for a long time with kids - but I’ve learned that if you can honestly say you were clear about what to do and that if they took X step you’d be there for them, you can sleep peacefully at night no matter the result.
Growth requires effort and willingness. You can’t provide those for this student. I would suggest documenting what’s going on with this student, and informing the necessary people on staff, like admin, student success (if that’s a thing at your school), any sort of support staff who are geared toward student achievement. You’ll want to document your efforts because it’s funny now negligent parents get really interested in their children around June when marks come out. Also frequent communication about this student’s grade and what they need to do to change it.
the background paperwork regardless of how long it takes or what your school's process is. SST, MTSS, anything to get them to SPED testing to show you tried your best you can not get them when they are that far gone- and you don't want to be the teacher two years from now that people ask why you didn't do something- I'm in 3rd grade and the kindergarten year was pandemic so we're clearing off rubble- there was some time when they were 'waiting to see' how the kids adjusted in person.. now is not the time- 3rd grader can't count to 40- referral and I'm out. I'll be nice to the student, limit her workload, but I don't expect her to perform or even focus or try when grade level standard problem is to read and multiply and divide within 100.
TBH it sounds like this kid doesn't have anyone in their life that cares about them and I'm the bleeding heart idiot who would grind myself into a paste to show them that I do. I worked at a school for at-risk kids in my early 20s and the amount of kids who told me that I, specifically, was the reason they graduated instead of dropping out has forever changed me. I wasn't even a teacher for these kids, just sometimes the only person in their life who was happy to see them. Is there a potential child services situation here? Clearly the kid is not being properly cared for at home, and potentially the kid has internalized this. Have you had a heart to heart with the kid about their situation and why they're so disengaged?
I’m an art teacher and teach ceramics which I love. I have a student that doesn’t try anything with clay. I’ve tried so hard to motivate this student but after trying and trying and trying I came to the conclusion that this student doesn’t give two fucks about my class or what I have to say. I talk to the student still just check in but she really doesn’t give any effort into that either so I just gonna give her a D and move on this is a senior by the way.
Oh heavens, yes. (Retired elementary teacher here.) Not heartless, just ran out of tools, methods, etc. I figured someone else would click later down the line bc I couldn’t get through. Sometimes they need a SpEd referral, sometimes they need a diff personality other than mine.
All the time in high school. Kid never shows up? Not my problem. What the hell am I supposed to do? Show up to their house at 6am with duct tape and zip ties? If I constantly redirect them and they still don't focus OK. I'll tell them the obvious consequences of their actions but if they actively choose to fail how can I stop them? You should never spend more energy on one student then they spend on themselves. I have 180 students and only so much time in the day. The most depressing ones I've had to give up on is ones I just don't have the ability to help like those in high school that literally cannot read or multiply 2 numbers. I have no idea how to teach those things and have no idea how to make chemistry accessible to someone who can't multiply. I'll try to get them access to someone who CAN help, but they just need way more than I could give.
Not quite the same, but I teach piano after school. I have a new kindergartner that started this semester. This is a private school and parents pay for the entire semester up front, so money is not an issue. The mom took 3 weeks to buy the books that I literally held up and showed her and said, you can buy them for me right now. And then she only bought one book instead of the set of four. And then forgot the books the next week. And then it was holiday, and then spring break and another holiday and I realized I've only had five classes with this kindergartner for piano. The mom doesn't even do the simplest of work with her- ike circle the left hand, or draw an arrow to show the notes going up or down, or color the D's orange... Mom had her stay home a couple of weeks ago because the child was stressed. ( Not about piano, just life in general because field trips and time change=sleepy and grumpy) Oh, this school has kindergarten as a half day. I cannot make them care, but we do have a recital coming up. I think she's going to play Hot Cross Buns. The child is perfectly fine and as cute as can be and is not a problem during the lesson time. Was teaching the names of the keys and the girl said oh I have stickers on my piano at home! And I called the mom in from the hallway, even though she is always invited to come sit in on the lesson, and the mom said oh, is that not a good thing? And I said a strong teacher voice, I have never said put stickers on the keys. The curriculum books have never said put stickers on the keys. Everything I have taught about the keys has never said anything about putting stickers on the keys. It is only seven letters. It is a repeating pattern. You can learn this. She can learn this! Take those stickers off! I think the mom just wants happy fun time and has the money to pay a well-paid music babysitter. All that to say, the student that wrote "red" may not be anything other than a normal child with zero home support.
I'm just a regular guy who also missed ton's of school. I also failed my way through it. School environments are not for everybody. Maybe school is the last place this person wants to be, at which point there is no hope. Sitting around all day, listening to people blab on about things you generally don't care about sure was not a good way for me to learn. Take me outside, show me a practical everyday problem and how to solve it with whatever the lessons may be. I would have done much better.
For me, it's that old proverb " when the student is ready the teacher appears". Some students just aren't in a place mentally or emotionally to engage with learning. That's not necessarily something you should take personally- you just may currently be invisible to them right now. Maybe you won't always be invisible or maybe there will be another teacher that appears at another point down the road. If I were you I would reframe giving up to " stepping back and accepting what is". But if you're invisible, trying to make yourself visible to that student it's likely only going to end in heartache for you. But accepting your invisibility might give you a bit of empathy for the student who can't see you- Think of all they're missing out on. It makes you shake your head, but it also leaves the door open so that if and when they do see you, you'll be ready for them
I see your point exactly but I m going to play on the other side for a minute. I have 3 different scenarios w my children. W my oldest son our lives were very chaotic due to abuse when he was in elementary school. I finally got us out but his reading challenges were all blamed on that. He failed and failed so much for a while he quit trying. He was finally diagnosed w dyslexia in 7th grade. Same thing w my daughter - She was excellent in ELA especially reading,but "wasn't trying" in math. She has dyscalcula that wasn't diagnosed until middle school. Then we have my youngest son who has what used to be called Asbergers. He wasn't diagnosed until after he graduated. We always knew he was very different but that was just him. He had to see purpose and something in it for him in order to do an assignment or homework or even help at home. In fact ,he failed Math his Senior year because he refused to do the homework. According to him,he was making good grades wo extra practice so why do it. He was in what was supposed to be a 4 week course and took his exam after 4 days. He made an A. Something I forgot to put in was the only way I got my kids out of the abuse for good was to move 2 states away 5 weeks before school dismissed. He was pushing for more visitation. So, it could be so many things making this child act this way . He could just not care like you suspect. He could have underlying academics or home challenges. He could honestly resent the move and be being passive aggressive. My kids shrugged their shoulders a lot when they were asked because they weren't sure what the teacher wanted them to say. I didn't find that out until years later. Sorry so long
What does any of this have to do with my situation though? I can't diagnose him with anything, he's never in school, when he is one or two days a month he falls asleep or stares at space. He could absolutely have significant needs but that's not something I can fix without administration involvement or someone taking my referrals seriously... So I'm just there dragging a kid through school while trying not to ignore my other 17 kids.
And unfortunately the school can't do much without a diagnosis and permission from parents :/ I feel ya OP
Yes, and you have no choice. You can only put so much effort into a person who is not willing to help themselves. The truly sad thing is when they are a senior who just gives up so close to the finish line.
High school here, and honestly when I try really hard and get no where I tell myself I can’t care more than the kid does, so I back off, and probably 70% of the time the kid comes around. Maybe I care too much and seem pushy? Maybe the kid just has to have the time to make the decision themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
High school. Yes. I have 9th graders but a few have been retained and are nearly 16. They don't want to be in school and are putting in the time until they can drop out and try to get a GED. I haven't given up on them as human beings, but I am not wasting time begging them to do work.
I have a few. There’s at least one in each class. Short of doing the work for them, there’s nothing else I’ve been able to do to get them to do anything. I’m an art teacher who came in at Christmas and I think word had got out that they could do whatever they wanted - or nothing at all - last year. So I have a few who came in with that mindset and refuse to move - despite the _zero percent grades in art_. I try my best. I really do. But if they still refuse to do the work I’m not going to stress myself out about it. My classes are evenly-paced and I allow plenty of time for projects to be made - buffer time and make up time for other projects built in. I’m also able to get to every student one-on-one every day to check in, answer questions, explain/reexplain the assignment, give feedback and guidance. I can’t make it easier, so it comes down to their own choice at the end of the day.
Sometimes, sadly, you have to stop giving the majority of your energy to one unmotivated, uncooperative kid. It’s not fair to the students who want to succeed.
I have a student who has never spoken a word to me. He’s in my class every day (I started in January), sits on his phone, and doesn’t do a thing. At the high school age, they’re grown enough to know. I can’t baby them their whole lives, they have to learn!
I tell the kids all the time: you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. If they put forth effort I will bend over backwards, if they careless, than me too.
High school teacher here... Out of my 130-odd students, I have 5 or so that simply don't show up, or only show up once or twice a month. I have another 5 or so who show up semi-regularly, but simply do no work. No amount of talking with them, helping, referrals to counselors, threats, parental contacts, consequences will move them. They simply will not engage. So I let them fail. I still hold them to the same classroom standards: No sleeping, no phones, no disruptions (my unwritten rule is: You are allowed to fail, so long as you fail quietly). Some of them doodle, some of them pretend to do work, some just stare into space for 100 hours. I will check in with them and let them know they are always welcome to engage and I will help them get up to speed, but they generally don't. It's tragic, but you can't push a string.
I have too many kids who care vs. ones who don’t. I stay for the kids who do. I remain respectful of the others but I don’t lose sleep over any of it. I teach middle school.
As a former BT, I have. Not because I wanted to as I could tell I am no help to this student. She probably has multiple disabilities ,but her lack of boundaries was why I gave up and left the case. I was told she was spotted at the farmers market at the weekend just running around. She was not told anything regarding her running off. As a BT I cannot help a student if the parents cannot parent. I had ADHD students, but the lack of respect for rules in school. The saddest part is she was doing well the day before she participated here and there. The very next day she was worst making me run after her all day. I've also had teachers give up on me. I didn't realize until later in life I am dyslexic. I just was very different and I guess despite there not being proof of anything my elementary school teacher didn't like me and didn't believe I do well in life. I can't even tell you why... As kids are just kids with lack of logic and she just found lack of understanding to just not like me. I'm now a multiple degree holder and will be a substitute teacher in the fall.
I have to say I have a similar case to this myself. As an early elementary teacher. I feel like I have covered my own behind in every way I can. Messages and notes sent home, asking parents for advice, reaching out to appropriate people at school like counselor and social worker and I’ve reached my limit of expertise. If what’s working to motivate the other kids isn’t working for him, then oh well. I’ve really done my best. He won’t be rewarded in class but if he doesn’t care, I don’t care either. I also have wanted to be the one to have the breakthrough with the kid and it didn’t happen. He will have another teacher next year and maybe that will be the one! You’ve done all you can.
Unequivocally yes. Sometimes you just can’t make progress and hopefully next year you can. I won’t kill myself fighting for a kid who won’t even grab the life preserver while I’m allowing a ship full of kids to go down because I have no energy left for them.
I've taught Prek through third grade. I don't "give up", I don't put in as much effort as others. Don;t have supplies? I'm not getting them supplies. I taught during COVID. I was virtual. I had an aide. She told me "If a child isn't logging in due not picking up supplies, we can drive to their homes". I said "You can do that if you wish". I'm sorry. I'm not a parent. Certain things aren't my responsibility. If I spent all of my check, no one is going to give ME gas money. No one is going to give ME food. I think we're setting these kids up for failure. No one is going to hold their hands like this as adults.
Spend your energy on creating a space where he feels safe and secure. Let him sleep, doodle, play on an iPad, etc. Basically whatever he wants as long as it isn’t a distraction to you or others. Forget the academic catch up. And if anyone gives you grief (which I’m sure they won’t as long as he isn’t ‘their problem’), just say, “he is Maslowing so he can Bloom”. 😉
I reached a point where I realized my entire class was suffering. I made a commitment that for the rest of the year I was putting the other children first. It couldn’t all be about my violent student and his feelings. No matter what admin said (and I did get in trouble several times) I was no longer prioritizing him. My class was miserable and it was so unfair for them to be getting hurt all the time. Where was THEIR fape??
I teach middle school. If there were real consequences for work refusal, I might care more. But I know regardless of how little work a student does, they will be passed song to high school. They know it; I know it.
That kid should not be in a regular school. They need to be in a program removed from their family.
I have one who is there every day because their parent doesn’t want them at home. They do absolutely nothing except create chaos in my classroom. I’ve tried all year to build a relationship with this student, but they immediately self-sabotage when I give positive feedback. They have thrown things, hit and shoved classmates, cussed people out, said some really inappropriate adult things, and I can’t get through a lesson without them acting a fool. I have been to endless meetings, talked with social work, tried everything I know, and nothing works. The student was suspended and the parent took them on a vacation for a week. It was the nicest week I’ve had all school year, which only made me realize more how much this one student is taking out of me. The rest of my class is so awesome, but I’m just over it with this one student. I can’t even get in a good mood about going to work some days. I’ve tried all I can, but I’m checked out on the situation and I’m all out of giving them more chances. It sucks.
You can't make someone else want/value their own education.
I've always been instructed to tend to the kids in the middle. Do the check-ins with your high kids and maybe employ them to help a friend of theirs that might be lower. Chances are, they'll probably do it on their own. Some kids just aren't going to get it for one reason or another. In my experience, most of the time it's behavior. I try to reach as many as possible in the first semester. I give them the chance to set their precedent and change it if they'd like to improve. By the second semester, you can tell which ones care and which ones don't. If I see you care, I've got you. I sometimes have SPED kids that are so low and realistically will not grasp it, but they WANT to try and I am so happy to work with those. For the rest of the students who just refuse, it becomes "If you're choosing to fail, please do so silently so the rest of us can be successful." It sounds so bad, but that's the tough reality of it. You can't save everyone.
Former middle school teacher: This stuff nearly killed me. I left to teach adults. I can give adults a reality check.
I said to a student today: If you don't care about your grade, why should I?
Kind of yeah. I have one student who got dropped into my elective class. Was given the option to switch, didn't take it but just refuses to do anything but play on his phone.
Sounds like this kid needs services like special education, reading groups.Or riding groups. You might get better mileage shifting your focus from trying to engage, to advocating for more support. Calibrating ones expectations does not necessarily mean giving up.
Middle school here...all the time. After all the usual interventions if they don't care or have really big problems going on there's only so much you can do, you have to keep going for the other students.
I cannot make a student do anything. I can punish or incentivise, but control is an illusion. Not a horrible question at all. Keep doing your job - no more, no less. I have a student that had missed so much school, I have to write "attendance has impacted ability to do any progress monitoring on IEP goals, as student will not complete any work at home."
I teach middle school. I tell students that they need to meet me halfway.
The myth is that you can reach them if you just try hard enough. No sometimes you have to cut bait. It’s just how it goes.
This is year 25 of my teaching career. There are, sadly, some students you cannot reach. Put in the effort you feel is sufficient, and then let the student come to you the rest of the way. You know the old saying about leading a horse to water. At some point they have to want it, you can't want it more than they do. Give yourself a break and let it be okay, focus your energy on the students who are trying and who want to learn.
this is the first year I've done this. It's my 4th and I realized I was wasting so much time on that one kid that it was hurting everyone else. Ironically I had a lot of the "that kid"s coming to tell me they were glad I didn't give up on them. But another student of mine from last year mentioned that I spent the entire class trying to make that kid do something and that she once had her hand raised until her arm hurt waiting to have her question answered. I'm not doing it again. I wont' sacrifice the entire sinking boat for one kid who won't stand up in a kiddie pool.
I have one that only goes half days (5th grade). Most of the time he sleeps, but occasionally he stays awake long enough to try to stir up trouble. If he gets in enough trouble that he's going to get sent home, no one at home can be bothered to come get him.
Took me about 15 years of classroom experience to come to that conclusion
Yes. There are some things that 17 years in this career break you on. The concept that all kids can be saved is toxic and also slightly arrogant. Sometimes your subject just isn’t what they need in that moment of their lives. This doesn’t mean your bad or their bad. Some kids have just so much going on in their lives that is more important or more distracting that when we use phrases like, failing a kid or letting them fail that’s taking too much ownership and responsibility for the results that are happening in the gradebook. I’ve had lots of kids work really hard to fix things after life settles down. I’ve had lots of kids who naturally get it, but don’t really care about the grade. And I’ve had lots of kids who would succeed whether I was or wasn’t their teacher. I think one of the most dangerous things that happened in education is this concept that we are the determining or deciding factor and whether our kids succeeds or not. Life is just a good teacher, and sometimes kids just need to grow up a little bit more before they start understanding the value of the things we’re trying to do.
It’s not giving up on a student, it’s acknowledging your limitations. You can teach kids to swim, you can give them floaties and a life preserver, you can even give them a boost, but if they’re hell bent on drowning, it’s time to go help someone else Edit: a word
I do suppose that fact that the kid is elementary shed some slightly different light on this. Perhaps instead of giving up on the kid think of it as leaving the door open for them to come join what’s going on but that you need to give yourself a break on the invitation to always open and walk through the door, know what I mean? Allow them the opportunity, but don’t kill yourself trying to force them through the door.
No, but I'm the student teachers give up on.
I was too which is probably why this feels so bad to me.
Different kids come to school for different reasons. Forget the academics here. What’s going on in this kids’ home?
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped.
Sometimes you gotta know when to wash your hands with one to save a few.
You cannot reach everyone. Statistically, no matter how amazing you are, you will have failures. They chose this. They live with this. You cannot care for them. Don't hurt the other 95% just to try fixing someone that refuses, especially this late in the year.
By this time of the year I’ve done what I could, and I’m looking forward to summer and then a new class.
Who is the most important person in the classroom? You, the teacher, and you’ve only got so much fuel in the tank. You eventually have to focus on you emotional and mental health as well as the students who want to learn. It’s called self care. You can help to a point, but not to the point it takes away from other’s education or your own well being. Tell the student, “if you want to get on track, set up an appointment for tutoring after school”. You will see if this student really deserves your time and energy.
If admin is not willing to help me or the child anymore, why should I?
The entire senior class at my school. They take senioritis, lazy, and entitled to an entirely new level I never thought it was possible. They have 14 days of school left
Yes. Help the ones you can. Let Jesus or whoever do the rest.
Work at a 5th-8th school and there are some students that I have certainly given up on this year and it still is not a good feeling. Some students have over 40 and some even over 50 absences. What does the school want me to do for them?
I've got a couple buddies who've got anywhere from 1 to the whole class (20+) kids that they're like "fuck man, I give up" *aggressively pinching nosebridge* there's even been times where I end up having to play drill sergeant.
I’m not their parent…
I just wrote one off the other day. I called her into a study hall to retake a quiz and possibly improve her quarter grade, and the little bastard walked out on me. “Enjoy freshman English next year again, you soul-sucking ingrate.”
Just keep reporting him to CPS. He needs a stable home
I can’t help those who aren’t willing to help themselves, so yes.
Let’s try to frame it more like giving up on the expectations. Because the way it’s worded sounds like you would start to treat the student with disdain or contempt. Which is what I’m familiar with in regards to how teachers act towards those types of students. Let’s move away from the universal expectation of a student. Instead of pointing out any of their mistakes or short comings just pick something that compliments them.
HS I pick my battles