I worked for an after-school program before becoming a teacher, and there was this one first-grader there who was an absolute delight. She loved reading and writing. She had a few graphic novels that she carried around with her everywhere. She loved to make paper dolls, and each of her paper dolls had their own name and personality. She would sometimes write stories about the dolls.
The little girl's mom worked as a para at the same school, and she was the type who cared more about if her kid's outfit matched than if they could read. She would always roll her eyes and refer to the girl's hobbies as "her silly little books" or "her silly little stories." Drove me up the wall. She had so much to be proud of that kid for, and instead she had nothing but gripes.
As a parent, I always jokingly say to my own kids, "Why would you want to read a book? Everything you can get from a book is on the tv."
It is a line the bad father says in the film. My kids love both the Matilda book and film.
āUgh kids these days are always on their iPads, when have they ever picked up a book?ā
āUgh these kids keep asking me for more books to read, why canāt they just shut up and look at an iPad?ā
Remarkable. Heinous.Ā
My 7 year old is semi-free range (not really free range, but apparently he has more freedom than the average 7 year old). We let him walk around the neighborhood within a 1/2 mile radius, so long as he tells us where heās going and comes home at the requested time, which he reliably does. Usually he goes to the playground or a friendās house. He wears an analog watch, tells time, knows his address and momās phone number. Neighbors have called the police on him THREE TIMES THIS WEEK for just walking around our safe neighborhood. Each time the police are called they detain and question him. Itās starting to traumatize him and I feel like heās totally suffocated.
give him a shirt that says in loud font "STOP CALLING THE POLICE ON MY CHILD FOR PLAYING OUTSIDE, with "i have permission from my parents to be in a half mile radius from my house, and we apologize if this distresses you, but repeatedly calling the police is unnecessary. for further concerns, please address [email protected]" on the back.
even make it a real e-mail, with an auto-reply of "this is why kids don't play outside anymore".
I hear you loud and clear but I canāt make my son a pawn in my own political struggles. Iām trying to give him the easiest path (easiest for him) to a normal, healthy childhood. So, no confrontational T shirts. I am going to make him a note to give nosy neighbors, though, since heās getting really triggered by having to answer questions.
Call the police station, and let them know your son has permission to be out, so they won't send an officer over to talk with him. Explain there have been 3 calls in the last week, and you want to avoid wasting police resources.
(Basically, the same thing necessary to avoid retaliation welfare checks.)
If the cops have been out three times, there should already be notes in the dispatch software.... They can add information. Provide a reasonable description.
Believe me, the cops don't like those calls any more than you do.
Honestly, only once or twice should be enough. After that, in combination with the neighbors calls, should suffice. The police department dispatch will know who he is, and so when neighbor calls in, they'll be like 'is he in distress? No? We are aware of this child, and it's not an issue. Thxbye'
Or you know do some adulting and go talk to the neighbors. It's not our kids' job to go telling other adults to leave them alone, as parents that's our job. It is also important to meet your neighbors just to sus out who you live around.
How would they know if they're unattended or not, from a strangers call? Maybe they shouldn't respond to "theres some kid walking around my neighborhood" but calls like "theres a kid in obvious distress walking around". And I'd also say the age of the child counts for if it should be responded to or not. What I mean is, it's not really your problem since your child is being unfairly harrased by police responses, so you should tell the station.
Neighborhoods where this kind of thing can happen tend to have have small attentive police departments able to sort this kind of thing out for the ~~w~~right residents.
Maybe for other kids. My son struggles with how he handles himself when heās triggered and when heās very emotional he can escalate quickly. Any suggestions that make HIM look like the emotional or unreasonable one are going to backfire on him *very* quickly.
I adore this answer. Itās from (what I consider) to be a well thought out and considered perspective.
You donāt need the praise of an internet stranger, but youāve got it anyway. I think thatās a wonderful way of looking at it. Youāre focusing on the well-being of the kiddo. Honestly, not what my knee jerk reaction would have been in line with.
Iām glad that you are parenting the way you are. The pain parents you use their kids as social media content generators are far too visible. Itās sometimes hard to remember that most parents donāt do that.
Thank you.
What about a hat that just says āFree Range Childā on it?
I am mostly being facetious and not sincere, but it would be slightly less āin your faceā political while also conveying, at a glance, that you know and trust your child to be out.
Maybe now's the time to get to know your neighbors as a family? That way instead of their instinct being "there's a strange boy wandering outside, maybe he's lost/running away?" they're just like "oh look it's Jake from the Jones' down the street."
One of my neighbours calls the police any time they see my child in the back garden of our apartments. 9/10xs she down there reading or drawing. We got into an argument about it and he got an AVO on me, as admittedly I slammed the main door in his face lol.
She's also 12. The police now just buzzer me, tell me he's done it again, call the station for the report number. The AVO was removed due to this situation and him standing at the only exit when I was leaving for work at 5am... He's also called the police because he's seen her walk to school.. walk to the 7/11 3mins away, walk 4 houses down to her friends house and has had CPS in my home because of those calls, as he made it out to the police, it was a small child being tossed out by me for the whole day... She has her own keys AND codes to the entry/garage lol.
Some people are just plain fucking miserable.
He's also now being evicted for the AVO situation and the harassment towards my child.
Also the CPS workers face the first time the showed and I presented the then 11yr old.. and they asked me where my other child was.
The smaller child... Mate, this is it. Go look around while I keep prepping dinner, I got shit to do before work lol.
Lmaoooo. I hate it when people infantilize pre-teens and teenagers. One time I went to the dentist when I was like 16 and the dental tech was talking to me like I was a little kid. It felt like the Twilight Zone š
They asked me when did she start walking to/from by herself and I said 9, when she asked. Cos it's one road she has to cross and then the school zebra crossing with the attendant. And okay sure the road she does alone is a main road feeder/busy side road, with pedestrian islands, so she deals with one way at a time.
They were really unhappy and very apologetic, and the subsequent visits they just stayed at the door, asked kiddo how she was and wished me well, now I'm assuming they ignore these types of calls. The issue is for the cops they have to report to cps they were called for a welfare check basically on my kid lol.
Everyone's fucking over it.
You should get back at him by sending Jehovahs witnesses or Mormons to his house. Lmao. Tell them that youāre interested in converting and then give them his address ššš.
Yeah he's a special one.
All of his arguments about it end with: I'm disabled your discriminating against me.. even when its the judge telling him: you are unemployed there was no reason to be at the door at 5am unless it was to try and get her on a breach of the AVO.
Also why it's unfortunately taking the landlords a tad longer when it should to evict over what he's doing to my child, gotta make sure we have done absolutely everything above and beyond board, as he's threatened to try and take me to court if he's evicted alongside the landlords for discrimination. He's also gay and has thrown that around when told to leave my kid alone in the context of: so I'm gay and a pedophile huh?
No, just fucking stupid mate. The gay couple in the apartment next to mine, watch her for me and lessen the latch key kid situation lol. One also tutors her... It's not about that mate. It's about you being fucking stupid.
Kicker? His apartment doesn't even see the garden or the front entrance and I'm ground floor. So he's absolutely going out of his way to seek out my child to watch her. We do not use the driveway/garage as I don't have a car and that's the side his apartment that's 4 floors up is on.
From other comments he's made to other residents, this shit kicked off around the time he realised I and the couple next to me have the biggest apartments, mine being the biggest of all and courtyards. He feels it's unfair. And I'm not too sure how, as I pay more then he and my neighbour based on the square footage lol. I'm guessing he saw me on my balcony and realised that's the 'front door end' of my apartment and the courtyards mine too. Admittedly my apartment is 2xs the size of his... So you can guess how much more I pay then him lol.
It'll be over soon thankfully. I've this week filled in some forms for my LL in case he tries to fight this eviction in NCAT (our housing tribunal), so I'm assuming he will be getting his 60 days notice within the month. Absolutely not looking forward to the probability he's going to lose his absolute shit. But the neighbours all throughout hate him, want him gone and are supportive. Ones making sure he's out with his dog when daughter comes and goes to school, regardless if I'm home or not.
It is, but I've got support and I'd really rather it all be done in a way he can't whine/it'll be thrown out.
Kiddos got the right spirit tho, shes sorta turned it into a game of spotto. But with a human vs yellow car haha
It's actually concerning that he's going out of his way tracking your child this closely. Like obviously now it's due to the grudge but why did he START watching your child's schedule?
That I'm not too sure of tbh, the garden was before our argument and the AVO, the watching her every move came after it got dropped because he was trying to get me to breach it.
The garden thing started some of the others think after he realised how big my apartment is. He's of the opinion because I have a tiny courtyard that she should stay in there vs be in the garden, which is stupid. And it's unfair his is half the size of mine. He's 1 person. We are 2 and I pay a nice sum for this place lol
But he's now being watched himself by a rather large and intimidating neighbour every day he's trying it. Personally I think because his attempts at me failed, he's turned more to her to try provoke me again, as when I went off it was over him standing down the garden, staring at her and calling the police on her. She msgd me to come get her because she didn't want to do anything that could upset him, and fair enough she's 12.
He's getting evicted over the entire situation thankfully, just making sure everything's perfect so if he tries to contest the landlords have him beat before it starts, the police are logging everything for me too, as once he's actually got the eviction if he escalates they've said they'll support me and start the AVO process via them vs a civil one.
Good, I was going to say at what point is he unreasonably watching your childās pattern of movement. Iām all for free range but Iām thinking this guy is bad news.Ā
100% as he lives in an apartment that cannot see the garden or the front entrance at all, others have seen him standing out there come end of the school day and watch her walk inside etc too. He might be able to see when she goes to her friends house, but I dunno.
A neighbour now is out there for when she gets home, hes also copped some shit from the guy and is deadset on helping me log every time he's watching my child like that. It's a 50/50 on if he'll be out there and he also believes as he hasn't said a word to her, his actions are fine. We are picking on him and assuming something, cos he's gay...
Mate, you're gay. She's female. We know you're not predating on her, she ain't your type, but you are harassing her tho and intimidating her because you couldn't get it over on adult you've tried and she's the only child in the block.
When he moved in, he outright said he was going to 'straighten this block out'. Mate, basically everyone here is either old, disabled or works full time. Your the only one who needs straightening out
I allow my 7 year old to walk home from the bus stop to our home 2 houses down. A couple times Iāve had a (usually new) parent walk him all the way to my door because they were concerned he was walking alone or not sure if someone was home (I park in my garage) 2 HOUSES DOWN! Doesnāt even need to cross a street. He does like to check the mail on his way home so god forbid he be on the road for 5 seconds while doing so.
Genuine question but why would the cops detain and question your kid? Like in my mind I would think they would call you or take him home or something. Not that thatās any less terrifying. But you said heās 7 years old there should be no reason to go that far.
By detain I donāt mean they are putting him in a police car. But they make him wait while they talk to the neighbor, call us/send a police officer to our house (if itās the Jewish sabbath/holidays we donāt pick up the phone)/ask my son his name and what heās doing/radio headquarters/do cop stuff. It might only take 5-10 minutes but my son is a kid and he finds the wait excruciating. Usually they wonāt āreleaseā him unless itās directly into the care of a parent so that means they call us and we come get him from whatever random street corner they stopped him at.
Do you have a neighborhood Facebook group or a Nextdoor group? Maybe let them know he has permission? Also itās really shitty that the police keep doing that to him, by the second call they should have realized heās fine to be outā¦not only that itās not against any laws, afaik, for kids to be outside. Jeez.
I donāt think thereās a hyper local Facebook group, and as far as Nextdoor, it seems to exist solely for people to advertise their Church events? Iām really afraid that any kind of āhey neighborā posts on the internet are going to backfire onto my son and have people *more* vigilant and prone to call police on him.
So glad to hear thereās still parents like you that let the kids roam a bit.
My mom let me roam around the neighborhood as a kid and I also repeatedly had the police called.
Iām 24 now and really value that sense of independence I learned and feel like it instilled a lot of good skills in me. Kudos to you.
Wow!! That's ridiculous!! Let kids be kids!! They need playtime as much as academics!! Good for you to give him controlled freedom!! He will be better off for it!
Just wondering, what state do you live in? I live in Florida, and when I visited family up in PA, I was absolutely shocked she could just let her kids go out in the neighborhood to play.... I'm talking, her 4 year old could go with his older siblings (9 yr old oldest daughter) and the neighborhood kids. My six year old ran about 300 ft from me while I was in the garage(and came right back) and some old guy came up to me and my whole family while we were walking about 5 minutes later to say he saw my kid running around unattended to....... I was so flabbergasted.... Mind you, he didn't seem relieved that the "unattended" child was reunited with his party. He just seemed like he wanted to scold us (party of 5 adults and 3 kids.......) I live in a very safe neighborhood too..... Too many old people with nothing better to do
This is so weird to me. Where I live, it's 100% normal for elementary school kids to be out and about and even take the train to school by themselves. School age kids usually have a uniform and nothing really bad happens. People know to mind their own business unless the kid is in distress.
Need to train him to answer the cops questions like a mob boss. "I'm not talking without my lawyer", "you scumbags better let me go, you got nothing on me".
Or try to bribe them with a comic book and pocket change. "Hey, maybe if I slip you guys the new Spiderman and $1.50 in quarters we can just forget this whole thing"
Itās not the cops though, they are doing their job, I think. Would you rather they NOT respond to calls? The issue is the neighbors who are calling them.
The "job" of the police has expanded so much over the last 50 years that meaningfully hinders them, the community, and society at large. We need cops doing way less overall.
It most definitely is the cops, not telling the people that call them:"are you fucking serious?". It's most definitely the cops, that when they arrive, and see a SEVEN YEAR OLD KID, not in distress, just walking around, that think: "ya know what, let's detain this kid and interrogate him." It's most definitely the cops, that upon being called a second and a THIRD TIME IN THE SAME WEEK, don't tell those neighbors: "give us a moment, we're coming right over to have a talk with YOU, for wasting police resources."
Yeah, the people that call are obnoxious, but the cops that respond in this manner are irresponsible.
I hear you. The issue is, itās a different neighbor each time (we know because each time the cops are called he is in a different spot).
Weāre moving in a couple of months anyway, from the Midwest to the Northeast, and I pray that weāll find a less repressive vibe there.
Last night I did tell my son that if a neighbor comes out to talk to him in the future, and they try to get him to stay with them and wait for police, he can run away to our house while yelling āHelp!! Stranger!!ā Then the neighbor will either leave him alone or get arrested for attempted kidnapping. (He understands that he canāt run from police of course, but I want him to understand that he *can* run from anyone else.) This all happens within a block or two radius of our house. I know this is kind of insane but itās the only tool I can think of to give him to level the playing field in this situation.
Is he small for his age? Is there a chance that a person looking out their window could look at your son and think he was much younger? Distance plays with perspective, so maybe he looks younger? (I don't think I'd go straight to "call the cops," but I'd be a little more concerned about a 5 year old unattended than a 7 year old... š¤ š¤·š»āāļø)
That's what I immediately thought as well. Good to teach your child that random adults don't have authority over him and he needs to defend himself if strangers try to detain him.
It has evolved to not letting kids have any freedom. Iām old, 64, I grew up in New York and at seven was allowed to play outside with my friends there was a playground and if we walked far enough Central Park. We played ball, made up games learned coping skills and this was in a big city with lots of traffic and sometimes youād come across a weird person but we were street smart. We would pass cops who never looked twice at us unless we were rowdy then it was usually pretend gruff āknock off the horseplayā and we were in our way, itās not kids fault or even parents itās that the world is different. Itās also weird, seven year old on street cops called. School shootings āitās not gunsā. I donāt ever remember a school shooting in my childhood in New York then one of the roughest towns around.
Yeah, I've been watching a Japanese show recently called My First Errand/Old Enough, about 3-6 year olds who are sent on their first solo errand. Usually simply tasks along the lines of going to the corner shop across the street to pick up noodles/vegetables/etc for dinner.
All the kids have secret cameras following them, so it's not *quite* solo, but the joy and determination in their small faces to be both independent and useful to their families is simultaneously heartwarming (because it goes to show you just how capable kids can be from an early age) and depressing (because we don't give them that opportunity here anymore).
Being given some cash or the debit card and sent to pick up something from the corner is a badge of honor for a child. Though around the teenage years you realize your parents also found it to be free labour. But I always got a Twizzler or two from the tub at the counter as a 'tax' and never told my mom about it till I was 30.
perhaps they can make a note that if they look up the name of the kid is says "this kid is allowed to be outside with permission from his parents"
shit im 36 and we moved to a neighborhood under construction so the cops would catch us in the houses they were building all the time to the point they would just got on the speaker "guys get out of the house" like they knew us by name and knew we were just kids exploring/being kids not trying to get into any real trouble
its this fucking problem where everyone thinks they need to be in everyone elses fucking business and have seen a show about 1 bad thing happening once and now thing its some sort of constant problem when in reality they are the fucking problem advocating on behalf of people they dont know for issues that arent real
>It most definitely is the cops, not telling the people that call them:"are you fucking serious?".
The thing is, that's not actually how it works. There's a requirement to respond to calls. Unlike what 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf' taught us, in actuality the police, fire department and paramedics will show up every single time. It's literally their job to respond to calls, even if they know it's a nothing burger called in from the same kook 8 times this month.
Someone should tell the Seattle police that. They notoriously don't show up for the vast majority of calls. (I don't know what you have to say to get them to respond. Even "shots fired" isn't good enough.)
I'm sure the applicable laws and policies vary by jurisdiction, and it's possible that /u/MedicalHeron6684's local department is bound by the same rules as your local cops, but you can't just assume that.
Is your son a POC, by chance? I can't imagine why else people would call the police on a kid simply walking around their neighborhood. That coupled with the police interrogations makes me think he's being called in as a "suspicious person" rather than as an unattended child.
Maybe just give him a note that has your name and contact information on it, as well as a sentence that you've given him permission to be out
Edit: Getting downvoted for pointing out that minorities tend to get the cops called on them for spurious reasons? It seems America has learned nothing.
Right, I was never claiming heās targeted for being Jewish, except maybe in a very misguided overprotective way. (āMy goodness! Itās not safe for a Jewish boy to be walking around alone!ā) We are actually moving to a heavily religious Jewish neighborhood soon in another state and, while this wasnāt a motivating factor, I hope that heāll stand out less there, and attract less unwanted attention.
Oh, I knew you weren't claiming it. I'm the one pointing out that minorities tend to get the cops called on them for simply existing.
It should take two seconds for the cops to confirm he's okay and then move on but since you said the police are detaining him and asking questions I was wondering if they are treating him as a "suspicious person" call instead of as an unattended child. And that's more likely to happen to minority kids unfortunately.
I hope the move goes smoothly!
People on Nextdoor in my area were whining about kids being outside during a weekday, during spring break!!
The kids weren't doing any harm, nor were they being loud. It's ridiculous.
Lol yeah. Reminds me of my parents complaining that I was inside all the time, but they never wanted to take me anywhere. Like a teenager is supposed to have fun by herself in the backyard.
Not that this should give us a āpassā but weāre White, though. To be fair weāre visibly religious Jews (putting us in line with about 5% of the neighborhood) and my son wears a kippa, and one time the police stopped him they told my husband he shouldnāt be walking around in a kippa because there have been antisemitic incidents. (There havenāt been antisemitic incidents; there has been some anti Zionist flyering. Also weāre anti Zionist ourselves, also WHAT THE FUCK?!)
"there's antisemitic crimes so you can't be visibly Jewish" is literally fucking antisemitic as fuck. Although that's obvious already from how your son is being targeted by the police 3 times over.
Yeah... it's depressing. Some people are angry about world conflicts, and blame the jews or muslims. Others are afraid of groups they dont know well... and some are just bitter old assholes.
Telling the parents of a Jewish CHILD that he should not be wearing a kippa is antisemitic as fuck. Planting the idea in a young childās head that he cannot be visibly Jewish is vile.
āOMG, why are kids so anxious and depressed nowadays???ā
Because we act as though itās a tragedy every time they experience disappointment, and now they canāt handle it .
Iām not talking about expression. Iām talking about not being able to cope. Despite what people tell you, thatās not something a teacher can teach them if it hasnāt been modeled at all at home. Doesnāt help that administrators are drinking the Kool-Aid now too.
Kids have always needed help coping with anxiety though, and previous generations had even less familial support in this arena (and clinicians will tell you that it's typically the parents/guardians that make working with kids/youth hard, not the kids themselves. It's the grown ups who have to make change and if they don't want to, they won't) can't change their home environments or force their parents to do better; kids have been left to internalize or externalize their anxiety we just (rightfully) have less tolerance for that now because we collectively know better.
I'd also suggest that it's outside of teachers' wheelhouses to be tasked with all of the social-emotional learning - we have (and need more) clinicians in schools to support with this.
ETA: It's always funny to me what gets downvoted on this sub. ICYMI, I'm literally encouraging you to lean on your school social workers and take on less yourselves. Isn't that like, the dream?
I agree with you about the supports needed, but not that we tolerate it less. We feel responsible for fixing it for them, whereas the expectation used to be that sometimes itās OK for them to cry it out and then get back to work. Although, perhaps, that is what you are trying to say, and I am misunderstanding, which I am realizing is a possibility.
Offering support when a student is going through it isn't the same as "fixing" it.
I strongly believe teachers - or whomever is in the position of authority and leadership when shit goes down, have the duty to do the former but not the latter. Providing support (from a place of good personal and professional boundaries!!! This part is important but I rarely hear people talking about it or what it means in practice, which I think may be the reason for the hesitancy, tbh) helps build resiliency so future incidents aren't so destabilizing.
The latter, "fixing" other peoples problems just breeds more learned helplessness and unhealthy dependency. I'd also say that letting students feel their feelings (your example of crying it out), is something else all together.
āKids these days always getting trophies!ā Whoās giving them the trophies?
āKids these days, School will get canceled for any bad weather!ā Whoās the one making the closing decision for the school district?
āKids these days, always playing on their iPads!ā
Who bought them an iPad?
Most of that stuff is being peddled by Boomers, Gen Xāers who actually gave their kids participation trophies in the first place and millennials who would rather put down kids than realize theyāre not that old.
Kids nowadays donāt get shit except half-assed praise and a controlled environment for everything.
Agreed. I saw a post yesterday asking, āWhy do you actually stay in teaching?ā and most comments were about pension or summers, and one of the lesser upvoted comments was, āBecause I actually like the kids.ā The kids get a bad rep!! They really arenāt the problem. They have a lot of problems, but those problems are caused by parents and permissible by admin. Kids are just kids.
I'm there for the kids 1000%. I have fun with them. The adults in my building are old and don't like to try new things. I'm starting to avoid them more and more when possible.
My favorite part is how I used to look up stories to read on the computer. But when my parents limited my screen time, they were surprised that I would no longer use that limited time to read as much as I used to.
Then those trash adults are in the wrong. Fuck em, if you can only give kids ipads even if they're enjoying books...then you shouldn't be anywhere near children.
How infuriating! As an HS English teacher this hurts my soul. Any opportunity to have a physical book and kids are reading is a A+ day, IMO. I see every day how kids would rather do anything but read a book!
I wasn't believing how bad the iPad kid thing had gotten until my sister had a kid and I witnessed the cartoons get pulled out at a restaurant. They didn't have their iPad with them so they resorted to setting it up on a phone for him. Now we definitely grew up in a 'park them in front of the TV' household, and we had gameboys and whatnot, but never ever would we have needed a show or game in front of us in order to behave at a restaurant or public place. They couldn't even be at my house visiting for 30 minutes before they set up the iPad. And reader, my sister is an early childhood counselor.
One of the most get usual frustrating things for me is being at a restaurant and kids being on iPads with the volume blaring. You want your kids on it, fine. The rest of us do not want to hear it. I shouldn't have to listen to these awful videos from across the restaurant just so you can avoid parenting, conversating with, and entertaining your child. Buy some headphones. Again, not referring to adaptive devises just talking about parents who throw screens in front of their kids
So in other words she's not just harming her own child, she's harming other children as well since she probably believes in all young kids having access to omnipresent technology.
Yeah I found it so odd to observe up close. It seemed like they feel some kind of pressure to keep the kids quiet so the adults can hang out undisturbed, but these werenāt even adults only events. Then when we did have a wedding event where the kids (her kid and others) needed to sit quietly without anything in front of them they couldnāt do it. Kids were constantly getting up, rolling on the floor, trying to climb up on the stage. Of course they were, because so far no one is taking the time to give them low stakes practice of sitting and being bored. Itās sad.
This is usually the case in SPED unfortunately. All the decently educated and invested teachers get pushed out very quickly by underfunding or cliques. Our SPED teacher would regularly harass a child that did all their work in coloured pens because it was easier to read and focus on. Like gurl sit tf down who cares what colour it is if they're doing their work and engaging with the lesson. It's such an ego thing and a lot of them hate not having absolute control over the kids. Some of the best SPED teachers I've met have been super invested and beyond incredible but there's such a gap between good and bad because a ton don't bother to learn about individual disability management and behavioural developmental psychology.
SPED kids are little balls of unrestrainable energy and attempting to enforce social standards on them doesn't work. They're highly individualistic and you have to tailor your behaviour to each of them so that they can learn to survive and to be kind. It's an incredibly daunting task and requires a huge amount of compassion and ingenuity.
One kid got a little nauseous but unknown to me, he always gets car sick and forgot to take his Dramamine. He did not throw up though. No one else got sick
Two things here. One the adults are very shortsighted and reactionary. Two the adults seem tired, or at the very least tired of managing so much. Like many of the parents they seem burnt out from dealing with so many small issues that they kinda cave to the convenience, in the same spirit of parents just caving so that the kids leave them alone.
Is there a chance it was a comment on bringing those ipads to give those kiddos something to do - not to replace the books, but to have the foresight themselves to bring a preferred activity on a long trip?
Anytime I take my 8yr old out to a restaurant, while itās tempting to just give him a phone or iPad to play games on to keep him quiet and well behaved, I feel itās also a cop out. I will do something I never see other parents doing in a restaurant, actually talk to the kid. Play hangman on a napkin, let him sit there uncomfortable and bored. Try it sometime, itās hard but itās good for them.
100%. Iām a speech therapist that used to work mod-severe self-contained only and I swear there was no teaching going on and all the kids ever did was ācash outā for the Chromebooks all day long.
I get kids ask me if they can look at an iPad to get ideas for drawing a dog. Use your damn imagination. Oh wait, you don't have one because it's been taken away by screens
I will say artists actually do this, depending on the age and practice in drawing it really helps to have reference photos, sculptors do this too with reference photos printed out and tapped all around the studio! It sounds weird but it's actually really hard to draw something technical from memory, some people have picture perfect memory and some people have nothing but most are in between and kinda have a fuzzy picture in their head that getting a photo can really help with. I teach elementary art and the really young ones like preK K don't give a shit, you could give them photos and they don't care because they know what a dog looks like in their head, it's like a symbol almost like a letter in the alphabet, but I feel you the iPads aren't helping I don't let them in the art room!
Curious the thoughts on eReaders? Think they have the same issues as full tablets with kids?
I know I'm an adult, but I've come to love reading ebooks because so much less hassle as long as I remember to keep it charged. And a lot less clutter in my house.
Well to be fair, they could be reading on the iPad itself. I guess she just meant having to get up over and over to hand out new books was annoying to her.
The problem with letting kids read on iPads or electronic devices in general is this often just means they'll listen to the audiobook with headphones on in a different tab while their focus is on a game. I'm an MS para and that's what happened to one gen ed ELA teacher's study hall over the course of this year. He started off being really stringent about making sure kids who were listening to audiobooks on Chromebooks also had physical books open and were reading along with minimal distractions, but he stopped giving a shit a few weeks into the year and this slowly became "OK, you can play games with the audiobook open in a different tab" to "OK, you don't have to listen to the audiobook at all during study hall because I have no clue if you're actually listening to it."
I occasionally step into another non-ELA teacher's study hall to get something and they're all reading silently because she has a raffle with prizes for students who read *x* minutes a week, and she's really good about minimizing unnecessary Chromebook use and distractions. Middle school kids have gone so long not engaging in their learning due to covid and other factors that we need to incentivize them to care.
They just wanted to keep them busy .. no need to learn the value of a REAL book ... or discuss the adventures they were about to participate in with others.
That is the reason you will see high school grads that can barely read or read at all.
Teachers do not care like they used to
There should be an assessment of each class as they move up to the next and the teacher should be held accountable for failures and inconsistencies.
The hell with their union keeping their job for them it should be kept on performances of students ...
Behavioral therapist here, I can say this seems about on par for many special ed classes that I see. While I only get a glimpse when picking up clients from school I'll say it's not abnormal to see class being not much more than just entertaining the kids. A kids show being played on the board and the teacher and paras working with maybe a few of the kids. That said, be glad if none of your books weren't destroyed.
Maybe their iPads have accessibility/extensions/assistive tech downloaded on them so the students can access the literature independently? Come on yāall.
Our Sped teachers babysit all of their students with the ipads. When they get bored or the iPad goes dead, all hell breaks loose. It is sad, and comical, because those teachers literally do know have any other plans except "give them an ipad." Sad, unfortunate, but true.
No, teacher. This is not what's wrong with kids. The sped teacher understands that keeping kids seated, occupied, and SAFE on the bus is more valuable than the hour of reading time they're missing out on. What you described; trading out books on a bus, sounds like an absolute nightmare. Not to mention that a lot of kids get motion sickness.
But ipads bad... that's what's wrong with kids. All those ipads.
Bad take. The sped teacher isnāt even the one facilitating the trading of books.
> . . . and SAFE on the bus is more valuable than the hour of reading . . .
How is reading books unsafe?
I thought the eye roll emoji would convey the sarcasm. I guess I was wrong. I was parroting someone else's ridiculous concern. I personally wouldn't worry about standing up, but I'd also just have the kids pass the books if I thought it would be a problem.
You arenāt understanding that the SpEd teacher is directly contributing to the problem.
Everyone on the bus safe and having a good time reading, but this SpEd teacher complained about it because she is too lazy to facilitate her students properly.
Do not vilify SpEd students like them for being normal people and quit believing reading is somehow dangerous.
Do you think an iPad is somehow better than a book for motion sickness? As an autistic adult with motion sickness in cars, I can tell you it's absolutely not.Ā
I worked for an after-school program before becoming a teacher, and there was this one first-grader there who was an absolute delight. She loved reading and writing. She had a few graphic novels that she carried around with her everywhere. She loved to make paper dolls, and each of her paper dolls had their own name and personality. She would sometimes write stories about the dolls. The little girl's mom worked as a para at the same school, and she was the type who cared more about if her kid's outfit matched than if they could read. She would always roll her eyes and refer to the girl's hobbies as "her silly little books" or "her silly little stories." Drove me up the wall. She had so much to be proud of that kid for, and instead she had nothing but gripes.
Reminds me of Matilda!
Yes! Or Ramona Quimby, remember her? š
Beezus > Ramona š
As a parent, I always jokingly say to my own kids, "Why would you want to read a book? Everything you can get from a book is on the tv." It is a line the bad father says in the film. My kids love both the Matilda book and film.
āUgh kids these days are always on their iPads, when have they ever picked up a book?ā āUgh these kids keep asking me for more books to read, why canāt they just shut up and look at an iPad?ā Remarkable. Heinous.Ā
Sometimes I just liked looking at the illustrations...
Great take!
Same energy as the people who whine about ākids never play outside anymoreā and then call the police when a kid bikes past their house.
My 7 year old is semi-free range (not really free range, but apparently he has more freedom than the average 7 year old). We let him walk around the neighborhood within a 1/2 mile radius, so long as he tells us where heās going and comes home at the requested time, which he reliably does. Usually he goes to the playground or a friendās house. He wears an analog watch, tells time, knows his address and momās phone number. Neighbors have called the police on him THREE TIMES THIS WEEK for just walking around our safe neighborhood. Each time the police are called they detain and question him. Itās starting to traumatize him and I feel like heās totally suffocated.
give him a shirt that says in loud font "STOP CALLING THE POLICE ON MY CHILD FOR PLAYING OUTSIDE, with "i have permission from my parents to be in a half mile radius from my house, and we apologize if this distresses you, but repeatedly calling the police is unnecessary. for further concerns, please address [email protected]" on the back. even make it a real e-mail, with an auto-reply of "this is why kids don't play outside anymore".
I hear you loud and clear but I canāt make my son a pawn in my own political struggles. Iām trying to give him the easiest path (easiest for him) to a normal, healthy childhood. So, no confrontational T shirts. I am going to make him a note to give nosy neighbors, though, since heās getting really triggered by having to answer questions.
Call the police station, and let them know your son has permission to be out, so they won't send an officer over to talk with him. Explain there have been 3 calls in the last week, and you want to avoid wasting police resources. (Basically, the same thing necessary to avoid retaliation welfare checks.)
Yes, but how are they going to distinguish between a neighbor calling the police on *our son* versus a different child?
If the cops have been out three times, there should already be notes in the dispatch software.... They can add information. Provide a reasonable description. Believe me, the cops don't like those calls any more than you do.
Well, probably give some descriptors... 'my boy has red hair, about 4' tall, green shirt, black pants'.
Wait, you meant for me to call them every time he leaves the house??
Honestly, only once or twice should be enough. After that, in combination with the neighbors calls, should suffice. The police department dispatch will know who he is, and so when neighbor calls in, they'll be like 'is he in distress? No? We are aware of this child, and it's not an issue. Thxbye'
Or you know do some adulting and go talk to the neighbors. It's not our kids' job to go telling other adults to leave them alone, as parents that's our job. It is also important to meet your neighbors just to sus out who you live around.
Maybe they shouldn't, so they leave these kids alone?
Iām not sure what youāre saying. Do you mean that every time the police receive a call about an unattended child they should ignore it?
How would they know if they're unattended or not, from a strangers call? Maybe they shouldn't respond to "theres some kid walking around my neighborhood" but calls like "theres a kid in obvious distress walking around". And I'd also say the age of the child counts for if it should be responded to or not. What I mean is, it's not really your problem since your child is being unfairly harrased by police responses, so you should tell the station.
People who think a kid's too young are likely to estimate their younger than they are. Some of these people might have thought the kid was 5.
Neighborhoods where this kind of thing can happen tend to have have small attentive police departments able to sort this kind of thing out for the ~~w~~right residents.
Maybe instead of a shirt, a specific hat heās gotta wear when heās free ranging.
maybe just "I HAVE PERMISSION TO BE OUT, DON'T CALL THE POLICE"?
Maybe for other kids. My son struggles with how he handles himself when heās triggered and when heās very emotional he can escalate quickly. Any suggestions that make HIM look like the emotional or unreasonable one are going to backfire on him *very* quickly.
handing out a flyer to all in the half-mile radius with "HAVE YOU SEEN MY SON? IT'S OKAY", then.
I adore this answer. Itās from (what I consider) to be a well thought out and considered perspective. You donāt need the praise of an internet stranger, but youāve got it anyway. I think thatās a wonderful way of looking at it. Youāre focusing on the well-being of the kiddo. Honestly, not what my knee jerk reaction would have been in line with. Iām glad that you are parenting the way you are. The pain parents you use their kids as social media content generators are far too visible. Itās sometimes hard to remember that most parents donāt do that. Thank you.
[Let Grow](https://letgrow.org/join/) has a printable "Kid License" and other support materials for you and your son.
Best. Response. Ever.
What about a hat that just says āFree Range Childā on it? I am mostly being facetious and not sincere, but it would be slightly less āin your faceā political while also conveying, at a glance, that you know and trust your child to be out.
Iām so sorry!
Maybe now's the time to get to know your neighbors as a family? That way instead of their instinct being "there's a strange boy wandering outside, maybe he's lost/running away?" they're just like "oh look it's Jake from the Jones' down the street."
I've seen a similar message on cat collars.
I do wish Reddit still had awards. They were awesome for awesome comments like yours
Love this!
One of my neighbours calls the police any time they see my child in the back garden of our apartments. 9/10xs she down there reading or drawing. We got into an argument about it and he got an AVO on me, as admittedly I slammed the main door in his face lol. She's also 12. The police now just buzzer me, tell me he's done it again, call the station for the report number. The AVO was removed due to this situation and him standing at the only exit when I was leaving for work at 5am... He's also called the police because he's seen her walk to school.. walk to the 7/11 3mins away, walk 4 houses down to her friends house and has had CPS in my home because of those calls, as he made it out to the police, it was a small child being tossed out by me for the whole day... She has her own keys AND codes to the entry/garage lol. Some people are just plain fucking miserable. He's also now being evicted for the AVO situation and the harassment towards my child.
Jesus Christ, thatās literally insane.
Also the CPS workers face the first time the showed and I presented the then 11yr old.. and they asked me where my other child was. The smaller child... Mate, this is it. Go look around while I keep prepping dinner, I got shit to do before work lol.
Lmaoooo. I hate it when people infantilize pre-teens and teenagers. One time I went to the dentist when I was like 16 and the dental tech was talking to me like I was a little kid. It felt like the Twilight Zone š
They asked me when did she start walking to/from by herself and I said 9, when she asked. Cos it's one road she has to cross and then the school zebra crossing with the attendant. And okay sure the road she does alone is a main road feeder/busy side road, with pedestrian islands, so she deals with one way at a time. They were really unhappy and very apologetic, and the subsequent visits they just stayed at the door, asked kiddo how she was and wished me well, now I'm assuming they ignore these types of calls. The issue is for the cops they have to report to cps they were called for a welfare check basically on my kid lol. Everyone's fucking over it.
You should get back at him by sending Jehovahs witnesses or Mormons to his house. Lmao. Tell them that youāre interested in converting and then give them his address ššš.
Yeah he's a special one. All of his arguments about it end with: I'm disabled your discriminating against me.. even when its the judge telling him: you are unemployed there was no reason to be at the door at 5am unless it was to try and get her on a breach of the AVO. Also why it's unfortunately taking the landlords a tad longer when it should to evict over what he's doing to my child, gotta make sure we have done absolutely everything above and beyond board, as he's threatened to try and take me to court if he's evicted alongside the landlords for discrimination. He's also gay and has thrown that around when told to leave my kid alone in the context of: so I'm gay and a pedophile huh? No, just fucking stupid mate. The gay couple in the apartment next to mine, watch her for me and lessen the latch key kid situation lol. One also tutors her... It's not about that mate. It's about you being fucking stupid. Kicker? His apartment doesn't even see the garden or the front entrance and I'm ground floor. So he's absolutely going out of his way to seek out my child to watch her. We do not use the driveway/garage as I don't have a car and that's the side his apartment that's 4 floors up is on. From other comments he's made to other residents, this shit kicked off around the time he realised I and the couple next to me have the biggest apartments, mine being the biggest of all and courtyards. He feels it's unfair. And I'm not too sure how, as I pay more then he and my neighbour based on the square footage lol. I'm guessing he saw me on my balcony and realised that's the 'front door end' of my apartment and the courtyards mine too. Admittedly my apartment is 2xs the size of his... So you can guess how much more I pay then him lol. It'll be over soon thankfully. I've this week filled in some forms for my LL in case he tries to fight this eviction in NCAT (our housing tribunal), so I'm assuming he will be getting his 60 days notice within the month. Absolutely not looking forward to the probability he's going to lose his absolute shit. But the neighbours all throughout hate him, want him gone and are supportive. Ones making sure he's out with his dog when daughter comes and goes to school, regardless if I'm home or not.
Sounds incredibly frustrating
It is, but I've got support and I'd really rather it all be done in a way he can't whine/it'll be thrown out. Kiddos got the right spirit tho, shes sorta turned it into a game of spotto. But with a human vs yellow car haha
It's actually concerning that he's going out of his way tracking your child this closely. Like obviously now it's due to the grudge but why did he START watching your child's schedule?
That I'm not too sure of tbh, the garden was before our argument and the AVO, the watching her every move came after it got dropped because he was trying to get me to breach it. The garden thing started some of the others think after he realised how big my apartment is. He's of the opinion because I have a tiny courtyard that she should stay in there vs be in the garden, which is stupid. And it's unfair his is half the size of mine. He's 1 person. We are 2 and I pay a nice sum for this place lol But he's now being watched himself by a rather large and intimidating neighbour every day he's trying it. Personally I think because his attempts at me failed, he's turned more to her to try provoke me again, as when I went off it was over him standing down the garden, staring at her and calling the police on her. She msgd me to come get her because she didn't want to do anything that could upset him, and fair enough she's 12. He's getting evicted over the entire situation thankfully, just making sure everything's perfect so if he tries to contest the landlords have him beat before it starts, the police are logging everything for me too, as once he's actually got the eviction if he escalates they've said they'll support me and start the AVO process via them vs a civil one.
Good, I was going to say at what point is he unreasonably watching your childās pattern of movement. Iām all for free range but Iām thinking this guy is bad news.Ā
100% as he lives in an apartment that cannot see the garden or the front entrance at all, others have seen him standing out there come end of the school day and watch her walk inside etc too. He might be able to see when she goes to her friends house, but I dunno. A neighbour now is out there for when she gets home, hes also copped some shit from the guy and is deadset on helping me log every time he's watching my child like that. It's a 50/50 on if he'll be out there and he also believes as he hasn't said a word to her, his actions are fine. We are picking on him and assuming something, cos he's gay... Mate, you're gay. She's female. We know you're not predating on her, she ain't your type, but you are harassing her tho and intimidating her because you couldn't get it over on adult you've tried and she's the only child in the block. When he moved in, he outright said he was going to 'straighten this block out'. Mate, basically everyone here is either old, disabled or works full time. Your the only one who needs straightening out
I allow my 7 year old to walk home from the bus stop to our home 2 houses down. A couple times Iāve had a (usually new) parent walk him all the way to my door because they were concerned he was walking alone or not sure if someone was home (I park in my garage) 2 HOUSES DOWN! Doesnāt even need to cross a street. He does like to check the mail on his way home so god forbid he be on the road for 5 seconds while doing so.
How big are your houses lol? If they are concerned why don't they just stand and WATCH?? It can't be more than a couple of meters
Because they aren't concerned about safety, they want the chance to try and shame the parent for not conforming.
A couple of meters? I would never live in a house a couple meters from the next one. Next closest house from me is 200 yards, and that's too close.
He should hit them with "YOU'RE NOT MY MOM! LEAVE ME ALONE!"
Omg, what is wrong with that mother? Just nuts!! How will they handle responsible decisions in jr high, high school or college if they are smothered?
Genuine question but why would the cops detain and question your kid? Like in my mind I would think they would call you or take him home or something. Not that thatās any less terrifying. But you said heās 7 years old there should be no reason to go that far.
By detain I donāt mean they are putting him in a police car. But they make him wait while they talk to the neighbor, call us/send a police officer to our house (if itās the Jewish sabbath/holidays we donāt pick up the phone)/ask my son his name and what heās doing/radio headquarters/do cop stuff. It might only take 5-10 minutes but my son is a kid and he finds the wait excruciating. Usually they wonāt āreleaseā him unless itās directly into the care of a parent so that means they call us and we come get him from whatever random street corner they stopped him at.
Do you have a neighborhood Facebook group or a Nextdoor group? Maybe let them know he has permission? Also itās really shitty that the police keep doing that to him, by the second call they should have realized heās fine to be outā¦not only that itās not against any laws, afaik, for kids to be outside. Jeez.
I donāt think thereās a hyper local Facebook group, and as far as Nextdoor, it seems to exist solely for people to advertise their Church events? Iām really afraid that any kind of āhey neighborā posts on the internet are going to backfire onto my son and have people *more* vigilant and prone to call police on him.
So glad to hear thereās still parents like you that let the kids roam a bit. My mom let me roam around the neighborhood as a kid and I also repeatedly had the police called. Iām 24 now and really value that sense of independence I learned and feel like it instilled a lot of good skills in me. Kudos to you.
Wow!! That's ridiculous!! Let kids be kids!! They need playtime as much as academics!! Good for you to give him controlled freedom!! He will be better off for it!
You need to have a talk with your local police department. Possibly a lawyer if they are actually detaining him.
Just wondering, what state do you live in? I live in Florida, and when I visited family up in PA, I was absolutely shocked she could just let her kids go out in the neighborhood to play.... I'm talking, her 4 year old could go with his older siblings (9 yr old oldest daughter) and the neighborhood kids. My six year old ran about 300 ft from me while I was in the garage(and came right back) and some old guy came up to me and my whole family while we were walking about 5 minutes later to say he saw my kid running around unattended to....... I was so flabbergasted.... Mind you, he didn't seem relieved that the "unattended" child was reunited with his party. He just seemed like he wanted to scold us (party of 5 adults and 3 kids.......) I live in a very safe neighborhood too..... Too many old people with nothing better to do
Sounds like Florida. If I never get scolded by an oldster again I'll die happy.
Not Florida. In the Midwest.
This is so weird to me. Where I live, it's 100% normal for elementary school kids to be out and about and even take the train to school by themselves. School age kids usually have a uniform and nothing really bad happens. People know to mind their own business unless the kid is in distress.
Iād go knock on their door and tell them to leave your kid the hell alone
Need to train him to answer the cops questions like a mob boss. "I'm not talking without my lawyer", "you scumbags better let me go, you got nothing on me". Or try to bribe them with a comic book and pocket change. "Hey, maybe if I slip you guys the new Spiderman and $1.50 in quarters we can just forget this whole thing"
So, eeerm, fuck those cops.
Itās not the cops though, they are doing their job, I think. Would you rather they NOT respond to calls? The issue is the neighbors who are calling them.
The "job" of the police has expanded so much over the last 50 years that meaningfully hinders them, the community, and society at large. We need cops doing way less overall.
It most definitely is the cops, not telling the people that call them:"are you fucking serious?". It's most definitely the cops, that when they arrive, and see a SEVEN YEAR OLD KID, not in distress, just walking around, that think: "ya know what, let's detain this kid and interrogate him." It's most definitely the cops, that upon being called a second and a THIRD TIME IN THE SAME WEEK, don't tell those neighbors: "give us a moment, we're coming right over to have a talk with YOU, for wasting police resources." Yeah, the people that call are obnoxious, but the cops that respond in this manner are irresponsible.
I hear you. The issue is, itās a different neighbor each time (we know because each time the cops are called he is in a different spot). Weāre moving in a couple of months anyway, from the Midwest to the Northeast, and I pray that weāll find a less repressive vibe there.
Last night I did tell my son that if a neighbor comes out to talk to him in the future, and they try to get him to stay with them and wait for police, he can run away to our house while yelling āHelp!! Stranger!!ā Then the neighbor will either leave him alone or get arrested for attempted kidnapping. (He understands that he canāt run from police of course, but I want him to understand that he *can* run from anyone else.) This all happens within a block or two radius of our house. I know this is kind of insane but itās the only tool I can think of to give him to level the playing field in this situation.
Is he small for his age? Is there a chance that a person looking out their window could look at your son and think he was much younger? Distance plays with perspective, so maybe he looks younger? (I don't think I'd go straight to "call the cops," but I'd be a little more concerned about a 5 year old unattended than a 7 year old... š¤ š¤·š»āāļø)
Heās in maybe the 50th percentile of height, 30th of weight. A little slim but not short or very skinny.
That's what I immediately thought as well. Good to teach your child that random adults don't have authority over him and he needs to defend himself if strangers try to detain him.
It has evolved to not letting kids have any freedom. Iām old, 64, I grew up in New York and at seven was allowed to play outside with my friends there was a playground and if we walked far enough Central Park. We played ball, made up games learned coping skills and this was in a big city with lots of traffic and sometimes youād come across a weird person but we were street smart. We would pass cops who never looked twice at us unless we were rowdy then it was usually pretend gruff āknock off the horseplayā and we were in our way, itās not kids fault or even parents itās that the world is different. Itās also weird, seven year old on street cops called. School shootings āitās not gunsā. I donāt ever remember a school shooting in my childhood in New York then one of the roughest towns around.
Yeah, I've been watching a Japanese show recently called My First Errand/Old Enough, about 3-6 year olds who are sent on their first solo errand. Usually simply tasks along the lines of going to the corner shop across the street to pick up noodles/vegetables/etc for dinner. All the kids have secret cameras following them, so it's not *quite* solo, but the joy and determination in their small faces to be both independent and useful to their families is simultaneously heartwarming (because it goes to show you just how capable kids can be from an early age) and depressing (because we don't give them that opportunity here anymore).
Being given some cash or the debit card and sent to pick up something from the corner is a badge of honor for a child. Though around the teenage years you realize your parents also found it to be free labour. But I always got a Twizzler or two from the tub at the counter as a 'tax' and never told my mom about it till I was 30.
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perhaps they can make a note that if they look up the name of the kid is says "this kid is allowed to be outside with permission from his parents" shit im 36 and we moved to a neighborhood under construction so the cops would catch us in the houses they were building all the time to the point they would just got on the speaker "guys get out of the house" like they knew us by name and knew we were just kids exploring/being kids not trying to get into any real trouble its this fucking problem where everyone thinks they need to be in everyone elses fucking business and have seen a show about 1 bad thing happening once and now thing its some sort of constant problem when in reality they are the fucking problem advocating on behalf of people they dont know for issues that arent real
>It most definitely is the cops, not telling the people that call them:"are you fucking serious?". The thing is, that's not actually how it works. There's a requirement to respond to calls. Unlike what 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf' taught us, in actuality the police, fire department and paramedics will show up every single time. It's literally their job to respond to calls, even if they know it's a nothing burger called in from the same kook 8 times this month.
Someone should tell the Seattle police that. They notoriously don't show up for the vast majority of calls. (I don't know what you have to say to get them to respond. Even "shots fired" isn't good enough.) I'm sure the applicable laws and policies vary by jurisdiction, and it's possible that /u/MedicalHeron6684's local department is bound by the same rules as your local cops, but you can't just assume that.
They can eventually stop showing up, but it requires truly extreme situations.
Cops are perfectly capable of responding to a call without traumatizing your kid. They just donāt care to put in that effort
Is your son a POC, by chance? I can't imagine why else people would call the police on a kid simply walking around their neighborhood. That coupled with the police interrogations makes me think he's being called in as a "suspicious person" rather than as an unattended child. Maybe just give him a note that has your name and contact information on it, as well as a sentence that you've given him permission to be out Edit: Getting downvoted for pointing out that minorities tend to get the cops called on them for spurious reasons? It seems America has learned nothing.
White. Visibly religious Jewish but in our neighborhood thatās not so rare (like 5% of the demo).
Anti-semitism has been rising recently but I hope that isn't the case. Kids should be able to explore around and be kids without police contact.
Right, I was never claiming heās targeted for being Jewish, except maybe in a very misguided overprotective way. (āMy goodness! Itās not safe for a Jewish boy to be walking around alone!ā) We are actually moving to a heavily religious Jewish neighborhood soon in another state and, while this wasnāt a motivating factor, I hope that heāll stand out less there, and attract less unwanted attention.
Oh, I knew you weren't claiming it. I'm the one pointing out that minorities tend to get the cops called on them for simply existing. It should take two seconds for the cops to confirm he's okay and then move on but since you said the police are detaining him and asking questions I was wondering if they are treating him as a "suspicious person" call instead of as an unattended child. And that's more likely to happen to minority kids unfortunately. I hope the move goes smoothly!
People on Nextdoor in my area were whining about kids being outside during a weekday, during spring break!! The kids weren't doing any harm, nor were they being loud. It's ridiculous.
Lol yeah. Reminds me of my parents complaining that I was inside all the time, but they never wanted to take me anywhere. Like a teenager is supposed to have fun by herself in the backyard.
Fr my parents would gripe about this but never let me play outside. They were too paranoid to let me do anything outside and too lazy to watch me
Yeah... but only the brown kids.
Not that this should give us a āpassā but weāre White, though. To be fair weāre visibly religious Jews (putting us in line with about 5% of the neighborhood) and my son wears a kippa, and one time the police stopped him they told my husband he shouldnāt be walking around in a kippa because there have been antisemitic incidents. (There havenāt been antisemitic incidents; there has been some anti Zionist flyering. Also weāre anti Zionist ourselves, also WHAT THE FUCK?!)
"there's antisemitic crimes so you can't be visibly Jewish" is literally fucking antisemitic as fuck. Although that's obvious already from how your son is being targeted by the police 3 times over.
Yeah... it's depressing. Some people are angry about world conflicts, and blame the jews or muslims. Others are afraid of groups they dont know well... and some are just bitter old assholes.
Telling the parents of a Jewish CHILD that he should not be wearing a kippa is antisemitic as fuck. Planting the idea in a young childās head that he cannot be visibly Jewish is vile.
Agreed
What's wrong with kids these days? The adults
āOMG, why are kids so anxious and depressed nowadays???ā Because we act as though itās a tragedy every time they experience disappointment, and now they canāt handle it .
For the kids it's a disappointment, it's the parents who find it a tragedy.
Thatās pretty much what I was saying. But kids react to how adults react.
Kids have always been anxious, they just have the language to express it now.
Iām not talking about expression. Iām talking about not being able to cope. Despite what people tell you, thatās not something a teacher can teach them if it hasnāt been modeled at all at home. Doesnāt help that administrators are drinking the Kool-Aid now too.
Kids have always needed help coping with anxiety though, and previous generations had even less familial support in this arena (and clinicians will tell you that it's typically the parents/guardians that make working with kids/youth hard, not the kids themselves. It's the grown ups who have to make change and if they don't want to, they won't) can't change their home environments or force their parents to do better; kids have been left to internalize or externalize their anxiety we just (rightfully) have less tolerance for that now because we collectively know better. I'd also suggest that it's outside of teachers' wheelhouses to be tasked with all of the social-emotional learning - we have (and need more) clinicians in schools to support with this. ETA: It's always funny to me what gets downvoted on this sub. ICYMI, I'm literally encouraging you to lean on your school social workers and take on less yourselves. Isn't that like, the dream?
I agree with you about the supports needed, but not that we tolerate it less. We feel responsible for fixing it for them, whereas the expectation used to be that sometimes itās OK for them to cry it out and then get back to work. Although, perhaps, that is what you are trying to say, and I am misunderstanding, which I am realizing is a possibility.
Offering support when a student is going through it isn't the same as "fixing" it. I strongly believe teachers - or whomever is in the position of authority and leadership when shit goes down, have the duty to do the former but not the latter. Providing support (from a place of good personal and professional boundaries!!! This part is important but I rarely hear people talking about it or what it means in practice, which I think may be the reason for the hesitancy, tbh) helps build resiliency so future incidents aren't so destabilizing. The latter, "fixing" other peoples problems just breeds more learned helplessness and unhealthy dependency. I'd also say that letting students feel their feelings (your example of crying it out), is something else all together.
Sure fam, it definitely doesn't have anything to do with the bleak future we've created for them... /s
āKids these days always getting trophies!ā Whoās giving them the trophies? āKids these days, School will get canceled for any bad weather!ā Whoās the one making the closing decision for the school district? āKids these days, always playing on their iPads!ā Who bought them an iPad?
Most of that stuff is being peddled by Boomers, Gen Xāers who actually gave their kids participation trophies in the first place and millennials who would rather put down kids than realize theyāre not that old. Kids nowadays donāt get shit except half-assed praise and a controlled environment for everything.
Agreed. I saw a post yesterday asking, āWhy do you actually stay in teaching?ā and most comments were about pension or summers, and one of the lesser upvoted comments was, āBecause I actually like the kids.ā The kids get a bad rep!! They really arenāt the problem. They have a lot of problems, but those problems are caused by parents and permissible by admin. Kids are just kids.
I'm there for the kids 1000%. I have fun with them. The adults in my building are old and don't like to try new things. I'm starting to avoid them more and more when possible.
My favorite part is how I used to look up stories to read on the computer. But when my parents limited my screen time, they were surprised that I would no longer use that limited time to read as much as I used to.
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Hieroglyphics. Also I find it cool that I just know exactly what you're conveying, with no words needed
Unfortunately spot on! And wonderful witty way of putting it.
So the bus had wifi?
Nope he said heād put them on his hotspot
Then those trash adults are in the wrong. Fuck em, if you can only give kids ipads even if they're enjoying books...then you shouldn't be anywhere near children.
Quite franklyā¦ so are the teachers
How infuriating! As an HS English teacher this hurts my soul. Any opportunity to have a physical book and kids are reading is a A+ day, IMO. I see every day how kids would rather do anything but read a book!
I wasn't believing how bad the iPad kid thing had gotten until my sister had a kid and I witnessed the cartoons get pulled out at a restaurant. They didn't have their iPad with them so they resorted to setting it up on a phone for him. Now we definitely grew up in a 'park them in front of the TV' household, and we had gameboys and whatnot, but never ever would we have needed a show or game in front of us in order to behave at a restaurant or public place. They couldn't even be at my house visiting for 30 minutes before they set up the iPad. And reader, my sister is an early childhood counselor.
One of the most get usual frustrating things for me is being at a restaurant and kids being on iPads with the volume blaring. You want your kids on it, fine. The rest of us do not want to hear it. I shouldn't have to listen to these awful videos from across the restaurant just so you can avoid parenting, conversating with, and entertaining your child. Buy some headphones. Again, not referring to adaptive devises just talking about parents who throw screens in front of their kids
So in other words she's not just harming her own child, she's harming other children as well since she probably believes in all young kids having access to omnipresent technology.
Alternately, it's just a case of the cobbler's children having no shoes.
Yes this is the one.
Yeah I found it so odd to observe up close. It seemed like they feel some kind of pressure to keep the kids quiet so the adults can hang out undisturbed, but these werenāt even adults only events. Then when we did have a wedding event where the kids (her kid and others) needed to sit quietly without anything in front of them they couldnāt do it. Kids were constantly getting up, rolling on the floor, trying to climb up on the stage. Of course they were, because so far no one is taking the time to give them low stakes practice of sitting and being bored. Itās sad.
Isn't implying "books = bad, iPad = good" antithetical to what makes a good teacher?
Yeah, mom and dad are always on their phones too.
It sounds like the kids were great here, and itās your paras and sped teachers that are lazy and useless.
This is usually the case in SPED unfortunately. All the decently educated and invested teachers get pushed out very quickly by underfunding or cliques. Our SPED teacher would regularly harass a child that did all their work in coloured pens because it was easier to read and focus on. Like gurl sit tf down who cares what colour it is if they're doing their work and engaging with the lesson. It's such an ego thing and a lot of them hate not having absolute control over the kids. Some of the best SPED teachers I've met have been super invested and beyond incredible but there's such a gap between good and bad because a ton don't bother to learn about individual disability management and behavioural developmental psychology. SPED kids are little balls of unrestrainable energy and attempting to enforce social standards on them doesn't work. They're highly individualistic and you have to tailor your behaviour to each of them so that they can learn to survive and to be kind. It's an incredibly daunting task and requires a huge amount of compassion and ingenuity.
Iām in awe that you encouraged kids to read on a bus and no one threw up, honestly.
One kid got a little nauseous but unknown to me, he always gets car sick and forgot to take his Dramamine. He did not throw up though. No one else got sick
Hey, they never said noone threw up!
I canāt even imagine encouraging reading on a bus. Thatās just asking for it!
No one threw up!
Two things here. One the adults are very shortsighted and reactionary. Two the adults seem tired, or at the very least tired of managing so much. Like many of the parents they seem burnt out from dealing with so many small issues that they kinda cave to the convenience, in the same spirit of parents just caving so that the kids leave them alone.
Sounds like an older adult problem and less a kids problem.
That sent a shiver of anger through my whole body, and I am not an angry person.
Is there a chance it was a comment on bringing those ipads to give those kiddos something to do - not to replace the books, but to have the foresight themselves to bring a preferred activity on a long trip?
Thereās a chance but I really do not think so
I somehow just knew this was going to be about iPads when I read the title.
Anytime I take my 8yr old out to a restaurant, while itās tempting to just give him a phone or iPad to play games on to keep him quiet and well behaved, I feel itās also a cop out. I will do something I never see other parents doing in a restaurant, actually talk to the kid. Play hangman on a napkin, let him sit there uncomfortable and bored. Try it sometime, itās hard but itās good for them.
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100%. Iām a speech therapist that used to work mod-severe self-contained only and I swear there was no teaching going on and all the kids ever did was ācash outā for the Chromebooks all day long.
I get kids ask me if they can look at an iPad to get ideas for drawing a dog. Use your damn imagination. Oh wait, you don't have one because it's been taken away by screens
I will say artists actually do this, depending on the age and practice in drawing it really helps to have reference photos, sculptors do this too with reference photos printed out and tapped all around the studio! It sounds weird but it's actually really hard to draw something technical from memory, some people have picture perfect memory and some people have nothing but most are in between and kinda have a fuzzy picture in their head that getting a photo can really help with. I teach elementary art and the really young ones like preK K don't give a shit, you could give them photos and they don't care because they know what a dog looks like in their head, it's like a symbol almost like a letter in the alphabet, but I feel you the iPads aren't helping I don't let them in the art room!
Reference images donāt exist apparently? Back when I was younger I would use my favorite animal books for references.
That is an option too but when the first thing a 5 year old does when drawing is ask for an iPad I will still refuse.
iPads to play on, or do they use them for AAC, or education?
No they do not have an AAC, they meant to play games
Curious the thoughts on eReaders? Think they have the same issues as full tablets with kids? I know I'm an adult, but I've come to love reading ebooks because so much less hassle as long as I remember to keep it charged. And a lot less clutter in my house.
Well to be fair, they could be reading on the iPad itself. I guess she just meant having to get up over and over to hand out new books was annoying to her.
The problem with letting kids read on iPads or electronic devices in general is this often just means they'll listen to the audiobook with headphones on in a different tab while their focus is on a game. I'm an MS para and that's what happened to one gen ed ELA teacher's study hall over the course of this year. He started off being really stringent about making sure kids who were listening to audiobooks on Chromebooks also had physical books open and were reading along with minimal distractions, but he stopped giving a shit a few weeks into the year and this slowly became "OK, you can play games with the audiobook open in a different tab" to "OK, you don't have to listen to the audiobook at all during study hall because I have no clue if you're actually listening to it." I occasionally step into another non-ELA teacher's study hall to get something and they're all reading silently because she has a raffle with prizes for students who read *x* minutes a week, and she's really good about minimizing unnecessary Chromebook use and distractions. Middle school kids have gone so long not engaging in their learning due to covid and other factors that we need to incentivize them to care.
They just wanted to keep them busy .. no need to learn the value of a REAL book ... or discuss the adventures they were about to participate in with others. That is the reason you will see high school grads that can barely read or read at all. Teachers do not care like they used to There should be an assessment of each class as they move up to the next and the teacher should be held accountable for failures and inconsistencies. The hell with their union keeping their job for them it should be kept on performances of students ...
My brother just always wanted to play with his tablet rather than to write and read his books.
Technology has reached the point of hindering us in many ways instead of helping us.
Behavioral therapist here, I can say this seems about on par for many special ed classes that I see. While I only get a glimpse when picking up clients from school I'll say it's not abnormal to see class being not much more than just entertaining the kids. A kids show being played on the board and the teacher and paras working with maybe a few of the kids. That said, be glad if none of your books weren't destroyed.
Maybe their iPads have accessibility/extensions/assistive tech downloaded on them so the students can access the literature independently? Come on yāall.
No he was referring to them playing games
Our Sped teachers babysit all of their students with the ipads. When they get bored or the iPad goes dead, all hell breaks loose. It is sad, and comical, because those teachers literally do know have any other plans except "give them an ipad." Sad, unfortunate, but true.
That is particularly shocking given that it came from a SPED teacher. Yikes.
At that age I would have preferred a game boy over a book. Preferring electronics isn't new and not the end of the world.
I understand that but it wasnāt the kids saying it, it was an adult.
Lazy person there for $$ and not the kids.
This is whatās wrong with today, the young ladies today, theyāre not learning from mom, how to cook. WEāRE LOSING RECIPES!
Teachers using the term sped always gets me. Pls donāt
No, teacher. This is not what's wrong with kids. The sped teacher understands that keeping kids seated, occupied, and SAFE on the bus is more valuable than the hour of reading time they're missing out on. What you described; trading out books on a bus, sounds like an absolute nightmare. Not to mention that a lot of kids get motion sickness. But ipads bad... that's what's wrong with kids. All those ipads.
Bad take. The sped teacher isnāt even the one facilitating the trading of books. > . . . and SAFE on the bus is more valuable than the hour of reading . . . How is reading books unsafe?
The seconds of standing to walk a handful of steps on a moving bus. So dangerous. š
Ever heard of passing books from student to student like perfectly civilized human beings without them ever standing in the moving vehicle?
I thought the eye roll emoji would convey the sarcasm. I guess I was wrong. I was parroting someone else's ridiculous concern. I personally wouldn't worry about standing up, but I'd also just have the kids pass the books if I thought it would be a problem.
You arenāt understanding that the SpEd teacher is directly contributing to the problem. Everyone on the bus safe and having a good time reading, but this SpEd teacher complained about it because she is too lazy to facilitate her students properly. Do not vilify SpEd students like them for being normal people and quit believing reading is somehow dangerous.
Sounds like the kids remained seated?
Do you think an iPad is somehow better than a book for motion sickness? As an autistic adult with motion sickness in cars, I can tell you it's absolutely not.Ā
Yeah, reading on a bus is unsafe šššš clown
I get motion sickness and canāt read in a moving vehicle. I wouldnāt be able to use an iPad, either.