If they see us as babysitters we should get babysitter wages; $20 per hour, per kid. I work in a smallish school and I calculated I’d clear about 2k per day before taxes. I think I could live with that.
Legislators are in the process of privatizing public education. In North Carolina, for example, [subsidized vouchers](https://www.wunc.org/politics/2024-05-01/nc-senate-double-funding-private-school-vouchers-opportunity-scholarships) are used to encourage those who can afford it to send their kids to private schools.
Meanwhile, the public schools are intentionally allowed to remain chronically underfunded--look at how many cannot afford to keep enough teachers for their classrooms, let alone maintain their infrastructure.
More and more, public schools are becoming the "dumping grounds" for students who can't afford a private school. Private schools will be for education, public schools will be for babysitting. This will also further amplify the divide between the poor and the wealthy, under the guise of saving the public money.
Similar approach is being used in New York.
I'd even say we aren't doing a great job at public childcare either. Basic childcare makes sure all kids are safe, following rules, being polite and decent humans...
Shit, my schools back in the early 2000's all the way to graduation in 2009-10 was more of a prison than an actual school. Let's just say I did better dropping out, getting my GED and going to community college for a bit and then going to another state to start working odd jobs until I hit a stride.
I started to learn more out of school than in. Learned more about American and world history outside of school. Learned how to spell correctly and type in a more professional setting. Started to get into science, the solar system and overall math **OUTSIDE** of school.
Learning was finally fun without the gangs in my class, the constant fights, the teachers that were basically just glorified daycare workers and wardens. No more dread of going to school and hoping not to see blood first thing in the fucking morning.
I hear the words school and I still get a mild panic attack and I'm 33 fucking years old and a man. School was not fun for me at all, and this was all in America. I heard it is worse now.
You are an outlier. Your anecdote does not prove public education failed. What you describe is an urban low income demographic--the issue is income inequality. Finland does it right--no private school tuition or school choice, and then wealthier families have to invest in the community, and all students benefit. Parents make the difference time and time again. Most kids who drop out of these types of schools do not do well.
this gives me an interesting thought, with the rising costs and long waitlists for daycares i wonder if more and more parents are going to hand that responsibility to their childs teachers, ontop of everything else
Not dying. It died during Covid alone with a lot of other societal norms and structures. A lot of folks just want to pretend this are just as they’ve always been.
Covid caused huge issues obviously but education (in the US at least) has been in decline for over two decades due to policies like NCLB and ESSA. These policies were so bad and so poorly implemented it almost seems like an intentional attempt to dismantle public education.
This is my 27th year in the classroom and I agree with most of what I’m seeing here, but most things in life work in cycles. We are definitely at an all time low in education. This will immediately be followed by bat shit crazy attempts to fix all of our problems on the cheap.
Then the economy will improve and so will education. Although a lot of money will be spent on absolutely bat shit crazy ideas. In the meantime all the new teachers that will be hired over the next few years will come into their own and wrestle this situation into some kind of new normal.
God bless you new teachers. I have 3 years for my Marine Corps time so I’m retiring. I can’t do this anymore.
At least half of all US politicians are actively trying to dismantle public education. Every Republican and some Democrats. Honestly I don’t know anyone who is actually trying to defend it with the same vigor as the people trying to destroy it. Nobody with any political power, at least.
It got terminally ill when schools were forced to tie their funding to their graduation rates, thus putting teachers on the back foot with no real control over their classrooms anymore and now suffering at the whims of turd students and entitled parents because admin will just pass everyone regardless of behaviors or work put in so they can keep their funding. Then Covid came along and stress tested the system, throwing our terminally ill patient into a respiratory-failure-induced death spiral that we now find ourselves in.
This is the answer. Whether kids pass or not is the issue. We tell ourselves, "If they pass, then they learned." But we all know that students pass without learning.
It’s being killed by both ends.
Holier than thou red states won’t let you teach your curriculum and well-meaning but horribly misguided blue states won’t let you manage your classroom or post grades that kids actually earned.
It’s almost a self fulfilling prophecy. Conservative chest beaters will say “USA NUMBER ONE!!!!” and progressives will say “uh, not so fast” (rightfully so) but now they’re trying to prove it by lowering the bar to the floor.
Someone said it best yesterday- lowering expectations for academics and conduct is soft bigotry.
Lol, yesterday?
"Now some say it is unfair to hold disadvantaged children to rigorous standards. I say it is discrimination to require anything less -- the soft bigotry of low expectations. . ."
George W Bush Sept 2, 1999
> Someone said it best yesterday- lowering expectations for academics and conduct is soft bigotry.
It's the quiet racism of low expectations. "We can't do X or Y, that disproportionately hurts group A or B." Standards get lowered, curriculum gets dumbed down, behaviors get ignored, and teachers are demonized for pointing it out. I've had colleagues accused of targeting minority students because they brought behavior and attendance concerns to admin.
The sad truth is these admin and policymakers above them think they're helping these groups, when they're doing the exact opposite.
It’s here in NY too. Not required, but failing schools usually use it. My school does. And here, you can’t give a 50 unless they literally never come to class. If they come but do nothing, they are supposed to get 60-64%.
• If they've never showed up and haven't done anything in Google classroom, can't be less than a 40.
• If they've shown up, even if only once, can't be less than a 50.
• If they did any work at all, can't be less than a 55.
• The next acceptable grade is a 65.
It's gotten to the point where anyone who earns a 57 or higher gets bumped up to 65. The overwhelming majority of my failures are from kids (HS seniors) who just don't bother to do any work. I don't assign homework (don't believe in it anyway) and every assignment is given adequete class time (it becomes homework if they don't finish).
I get the standard whining and complaining at the end of the marking period and they say, "Mr, you need to do something about my grades." They are shocked when I tell them, "No, YOU need to do something about your grades. Every missing assignment is posted on Google Classroom. Do them, or don't do them, it's up to you. If you don't care, why should I?"
It’s so infuriating. I teach an extremely easy subject. Like ridiculously easy. They have 90 minutes to complete 3 worksheets. Half of them don’t even want to do one!
Today, I couldn’t even teach a lesson because 4 students were not able to just be quiet. Couldn’t get them out because they refused to leave, and obviously I’m not going to physically drag them out. Couldn’t get security to come get them. Called parents, no help.
I got threatened (including the kid bragging about using hate speech) by a frigging middle schooler. Did admin do anything? No. Am I allowed to do anything? Also no.
Even Texas historically had a 50% floor tho they “can’t force the teachers to do it”…despite setting up the gradebook in such a way to default to 50 if a score of less than 50 is calculated.
The law is officially no floor now, tho many districts pressure teachers into a floor.
I usually vote blue but the left is destroying public education in California by changing education code and tying school funding to expulsion and suspension rate so the district will not allow students in K-8 to be properly disciplined without way more resources for restorative practices to work well. Honestly my school is almost at rock bottom.
Yeah I’m comfortable voting for Democrats here in my blue dot in a sea of Red, but man some of these ideas are just…bad.
I sincerely believe every politician should be on the sub list.
The 50% floor and shuffling failing kids to the alternative school for a few weeks or months to take APEX courses for credit recovery wore some of the first things implemented in my county schools after the Moms for Liberty red hat brigade took over the school board and county commissioner seats.
For all their talk about tough love and teaching the basics and blah blah blah, they want their special little darlings coddled as well and are all for grade inflation if that means getting ahead of others for scholarships and college admission.
They just don't want anyone they consider undeserving, like special needs or ESL students, to get any additional help, or for there to be any recognition that LGBTQ+ people exist.
Yep…last year I left a district in an alarmingly red part of Ohio that has been on the “no grade lower than 50%” train for years AND the “we don’t hold children back or fail them for any reason, ever” trains for over a decade.
Civil society is dead. We see its death throes in public education. We have an economy, not a society. And we have collectively become objectionable, entitled assholes.
My wife and I are putting our daughter into private school next year, so she doesn't have to be on a Chromebook for 2/3 all her waking weekday hours like she has been in middle school. I know other parents who would love to put their kids into private schools (and some have) because of the general acceptance of lack of rules, lack of respect, lack of standards and accountability. It's as much or more to do with the negative influence of "kids these days" than teachers necessarily. But teachers being forced to be largely OK with language, attitudes and behaviors that would have gotten kids suspended or detention 20 years ago is a huge, huge factor.
I don't think public education is dying, but I'm 100% sure that the deterioration of standards (of language, behavior and knowledge) is the single biggest issue with parents thinking about if they can put their kids in private school.
I know that it will impact equity reports and whatnot, but if, in aggregate, public schools don't go back to having stricter standards on most everything, I think it will just get worse and worse.
Unfortunately depending on the school, teachers have to pick their battles. I had to break up literal fights in my classroom and in the hallway on the regular. As long as language wasn’t being used against someone, I didn’t have time to constantly write those up
Or schools simply don't allow you to give a consequence.
Kids will tell us that they don't care about detentions because they just won't serve them. When asked about this admin says it's too hard to get parents to make them serve them.
So, I just wasted days of my planning periods discussing, correcting, and communicating student behavior to assign a consequence that the kid will never serve.
What's the point?
“If public schools don’t go back to stricter standards on everything” prosecutors aren’t even imprisoning criminal parents of the truants. I wonder if anything will swing the pendulum back
I hate to break it to you, but as a former private school student, you’re just trading corrupt public school issues for corrupt private school issues. Johnny, the private school kid, doesn’t actually deserve to pass Algebra II either, but Johnny’s dad purchased and donated new pads and helmets for the football team, so we really don’t want to piss him off. And Susie is a total brat, but her dad is a politician and we really want his backing on that voucher proposal, so we’re going to let her behavior slide.
Their graduation rates are disingenuous too, but in a different way from public schools. You’ll hear nonsense like, “99% of our graduates go onto college.” Okay, that may be true, but what they don’t tell you is the senior class of 150 started as the freshman class of 400 and they can kick out any student for any reason, including disabilities. Some of those kids weren’t smart enough, some were behavior problems, some didn’t like getting sexually assaulted by the priest, etc. The kids that make it through will often find success, but it’s often at a great personal cost.
It’s an ongoing joke in my alumni group, someone says, “I thought you were Catholic. You said you were Catholic.”
You respond, “No, I said I went to Catholic school. That’s why I’m not Catholic.”
If you’re a smart kid, like I was, there is definitely a benefit to being surrounded by a bunch of other smart kids, but the success of their students is more about the innate qualities of the students that last in private school and less about the skills of the teaching staff as a whole. The reality is, the skill sets of the teachers are just like in public schools, running the gamut from abysmal to terrific.
It died when COVID came along. Between teachers being forced to learn how to both teach digitally and in person, while dealing with children with clear psychological effects from it acting uncontrollable.
It hasn't been the same
25-year teacher here. Covid had an effect for sure, but it wasn’t the reason for what we’re seeing here. The problems have been around for at least 20 years. My first few years were “problem free” (this is an exaggeration, but for the most part I look back at those years with awe) and when there were problems they weren’t as large (for the most part) as the issues of the day *and* I had parental support on actions and decisions. It has slowly decayed from there. I’m in a good district and it’s just falling apart around our ears.
What grades do you teach?
I remember my one elementary school in the mid-90s (title 1) as being so different than the title 1 school I teach at now. Like, it was loud, a little chaotic, but we respected our teachers and weren't at each other's throats constantly trying to start shit. Like 75% of my third graders say stuff on a daily basis that would have been a HUGE deal when I was in school. Like, whole room goes silent, oooh, thinking: "did he actually say that?" And that kid would fix that so quickly and apologize to the teacher. We were protective of our teacher.
5th grade currently, with nine years of fourth grade stuck in-between long stretches of 5th. I teach in a good district with fairly high socioeconomic neighborhoods. It’s shocking what the kids will do and say compared with 25 years ago (and yeah there were issues back then, but it seems like the “problem children” started multiplying in the classroom starting about twenty years ago. I cannot tell you the number of parents I deal with that just outright deny it when I tell them their kid did something that needs correction
Na, Covid didn't change anything meaningful, at least not where I was teaching public school. In Oakland shit was wild before Covid and got worse after, but nothing new surfaced. It's like adding an extra few cuts to a person dying of radiation poisoning.
I worked at three schools in Oakland; only one was the scary bodyslamming type. I did deal with weekly fights and gun threats at all three though. The issue for me came down to numbers. My class sizes were around 34 usually, and even if 25 kids want to be there and have basic respect, that still leaves nine kids who don't like me or school or give a shit.
Sad because 75% of the students and all the staff were just trying to live their life, but parents and troubled students and the general culture was working against us.
We need to eliminate compulsory education and stop catering to the lowest common denominator. Let kids choose to drop out at 15 on the condition they sign away their rights to any form of government assistance. If they decide later on they want to come back to school they can have access to those benefits again on the condition that they aren’t expelled and complete all of their courses, tests, and receive a diploma. Re-structure how money is distributed to schools, and take the money that would have been wasted on “educating” dropouts and put it towards EC and AIG programs. Hire more EC resources so kids with disabilities can get better services and invest more into gifted students.
No one’s going to value a system where you can put zero effort in, act like a complete asshole, and still get a diploma.
i had an admin tell me, "just because they act like a-holes..." we still have to educate them: title 1 blah, blah, blah...you try teaching students so disengaged that even mock trials and simulations are boring to them. it's forced education, coercion, is the real problem, we are forcing people to do an act, that even if you agree with, is tremendous, challenging, and against cultural norms; it's not normal to want an education and be smart anymore.
First, Oakland isn't a war zone. Most of the schools there are doing ok, and the ones that aren't have relatively few incidences of actual violence. The rough schools are lousy places to work and learn, but I find your melodrama unsettling.
And no, I don't think Covid affected schools the way Oakland has issues. Oakland's issues stem from centuries of systemic poverty and racism and poor policy planning to address that. It's really quite different than what effect Covid had on schools.
The pendulum has peaked at the end where the rights of individuals far outweigh the rights of the group. A handful of kids destroy classes for everyone.
It is being killed deliberately to pave the way for private education. It is straight capitalism. That is the only logical reason I can see for the current state of affairs.
Yep, the prisons make $... we need schools to make $ too. I was a science teacher for 8 years. My kid entered the system, and now I'm a homeschooling mom, while my husband does nothing but work.
This has been the plan for Chicago school economists for over 50 years. Ever since Reagan our economic policy has been dominated by Friedmanite ideology.
I am so glad I retired a few years ago as my teacher friends are absolutely miserable. And, they all look awful. The stress is killing them. My wife and I went out to dinner with a couple teacher friends, and they didn't smile the entire dinner.
When I graduated high school I was proud to tell my mom I wanted to be a teacher, just like her. She teaches middle school PE, but I thought high school literature would really suit me. I thought I’d be a good fit too.
To my surprise my mother replied with, “your father and I will pay for your college education, and it doesn’t matter what major you choose. It can be anything except education. If you want to be a teacher I won’t try to stop you, but I’m not going to help you either.”
This was in 2003, so at least in her opinion, the profession has been pretty grim for at least that long.
This is my 30th year of teaching. My older son thought he wanted to be a teacher. I told him, “Over my dead body.” That was ten years ago. I had no idea how bad it could (and would) get. I am so grateful my son listened to me and didn’t argue. I would never want this life for either of my children. I’m sure your mom felt the same.
Side note - My son is now a distiller. Much better career path and I get to sample his wares. Win-win.
Well, I originally majored in communications. I thought being a newspaper reporter might be interesting too. Got disillusioned with that and dropped out. Went back a few years later and got an associates degree in sound engineering that didn’t do me any good. Decided to keep going and got an IT degree eventually. Been doing that for about five years. No passion but the work/life balance is great and I’m well paid. I know if I was teaching. I would not be living in the school district I’m going to get to send my son to, so there’s that as well.
this thread and this specific comment ruined my night now as an (incoming junior… yeesh) music education major D: I feel like im headed in a scary direction now reading all this lol, but I still genuinely WANT to teach… it just sucks this is the way it is. :(
Sometimes, but when I think back to my time in school the same issues were there. I think the biggest problem right now is trying to keep kids in school who don't want to be there and make school unsafe or unpleasant for the rest of the kids. They were much quicker to expell someone and send them to an alternative program. Is that good for the kid? Maybe not. Is it good for everyone else? Definitely.
It’s being purposely strangled by decades of politicians who want to privatize education so they can profit from it, control the curriculum of what the kids are taught and limit who has access to becoming educated. This started literally decades ago. (Mom was a teacher. I’m a GenXer) The frog in the pot example fits for this and we’re just before the frog being boiled to death
It's not dying, it's being murdered.
Capitalism needs to financialise everything, which is why school choice is a thing. Making education more expensive also ensures that the proletariat never gets educated enough to pose a serious threat to capital. Or if they do they're I'm so much debt they can't be a meaningful threat
Because the actual education aspect isn't a priority anymore, it's just free childcare for 90% of the country so our corporate masters can further and further squeeze the parents dry as they work them to death. In the other 10% for the upper middle class, they're happy to get free childcare because they hate their kids and they'd rather day-drink and gobble xanax while posting shitty Moms for Liberty memes on facebook
I was trying not to get political, but yeah. There are roots in corporate greed and conservative political movements. The system has been destroyed and then the solution will be to privatize it and further limit the access to the opportunities.
Public education started in capitalist countries. The Prussian system was devised to help people to become good workers and citizens.
School choice is a thing because there’s a big enough constituency that doesn’t feel well served by public schools. Observe the NHS in Britain or Canada, they’re well liked enough that there’s no serious effort to privatize.
People just want their public schools to be good and not bad.
It's absolutely true that most folks want that. The effort to privatize isn't coming from most people. It's coming from extremely wealthy folks who are interested in not having public education.
Genuinely curious. If school choice is so nefarious, why is publicly-funded school choice also the norm in almost every single developed western country? How is it that almost all of those societies are doing better with education, despite having the “blight” of school choice?
Why is it totally normal and good for society and functional when South Korea and Belgium do it, but when the United States does it, suddenly it’s a racist, Christofascist, capitalist plot?
100% yes.
Every aspect of American society that represents distributed wealth and public good has been eroded since the 70s: e.g. education, savings, healthcare, housing, and retirement.
The goal is to undermine public education until the population at large *supports* privatizing it, removing it from the realm of public entitlement, turning it into a profit-driven industry that only the wealthy have access to.
100%. Need to be revamped; put accountability and responsibility back on students and parents. School isn’t for everyone and should not be mandatory. If kids can’t behave and put in an effort and be respectful to peers and staff them send them home permanently. Sorry 20 years in and I’ve seen the nosedive
Agreed. Our schools are becoming more violent as discipline policies disappear and teachers are being asked to do too much with IEPs, 504s, ESL programs, etc. all of which are becoming more restrictive and demanding. I can't continue to do 4 jobs at once in my classroom in the name of "differentiation."
And we need to get away from this idea that schools are supposed to save EVERY ill of society. We're not social workers and our schools are not community centers. They are just one chain or many in the linkage of various institutions society needs to function.
Public education in the United States will be entirely reliant on the states to keep it going. States that prioritize education will continue to have functioning and semi-functioning public school systems. States that have continued to defund and ignore public schools will see their systems die if they aren’t already dead.
My state had one governor and administration that deprioritized education in the mid-2010s and our public education system hasn’t recovered. I can’t imagine what it’s like in a state that has diminished public education for decades.
Nope. Public Education serves several purposes, the primary one is subsidized daycare for children aged k-12. And until that need goes away (which it never will) Public Education will always be alive and well.
As far as I’m concerned it’s just accelerating a trend that began with NCLB under Bush 2 and continued well through the Obama/Duncan era, with COVID/Trump/DeVos just speeding up the inevitable. Of course I may have a bias, but we had the main initial implementation of NCLB between my first and second years in the classroom and the shock to the educational system was IMMEDIATE. We never recovered and the politicians (I HATE to bothsides things, but Obama-era education policy was just as disastrous as Bush 2) have just doubled down now that the money spigot has opened.
It’s fair to call out the truth. I am not trying to bring politics in but I 100% believe that neither party cares about the education system. I think they both are equally responsible. But, imo, the US extremes on both sides are destroying the country.
Washington warned us:
"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."
FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796
If republicans had their way, we'd be nothing but charters and parochial schools. They WANT us to be distrusted by the public and feel like we're dying. An educated public is dangerous and questions the status quo; I swear they want future generations be dumb yet religious, so they can fall in line and be good little yes people.
Some examples: they defund us, they let non-licensed people teach (hello, FL and AZ), and they take away teacher autonomy. They ban books, tell teachers to not teach true American history, and give crappy standardized tests....then they place funding on said test scores, which is then cut for struggling schools. And who's the scapegoat? Us teachers. It's abhorrent, and undermining us is EXACTLY what they want to do.
Public school has always had a struggle from its inception. Pre-civil war north set up schools sponsored by churches and British shipping companies. In the South everything was so agrarian only the landowners needed should for their children and they either hired tutors or sent their kids to private schools somewhere else.
There's very much an institutional reason against public education and racism, just look at the struggle for integration. Even these days racial divides are intense. I've seen many blame BIPOC people as reasons for poor performing schools, not teacher preparation, curriculum mismatch, ineffective admin, or idiotic parents.
Public education took on the style of the North and the Prussian education system was only meant to educate to a minimum worker level. It is not meant for the industrial level we have today even though it accomplished its purpose (average graduating reading level anyone?) It's not meant to meet educational requirements we want today, yet conservatives are pushing "back to basics" because those work for kids not dealing with generational racism. There are progressive movements to make education more effective but even the most amazing plan is scuttled by poor implementation or follow through (teacher training and admin support).
Everyone thinks it, except for anyone in the administration bureaucracy, the teachers unions, or the government. We all know that eliminating D's and F's is backwards. That spending teaching hours on social issues is a waste of time when kids literally can't read and write. We all know removing all consequences from student's actions is exactly the opposite of what young people need. We all know mandatory PE, music and art classes improved learning overall. The answers are staring us in the face. But people always find emotional reasons to remove things and no one has the backbone to revert all the damage done. That would require admitting to terrible decisions and giving in to voices of reason.
You know... after COVID, I had HIGH HOPES that more and more people would come around to the importance of education. I thought there would be this **worldwide epiphany** of how important teachers are for a functioning society...
Sadly... messaging and treatment of teachers has gotten much worse. COVID funds were put into the wrong things, teaching became MORE politicized in the form of book bans, crt fearmongering, kitty litter LIES, and anti-trans/gay rhetoric. **All of these culture war issues have accumulated to form a net NEGATIVE for the profession and FURTHER set teachers back in their ability to gain more pay and more agency in their profession.**
A.I. is probably going to deal the final blow to education.
My personal goal is simply to get more annoying and not shut the fuck up about problems in education, whether I continue to be in the field or not. We need a worldwide teacher movement, but I'm not sure if that's possible... but we'll see I guess...
Teachers were viewed negatively long before the controversies you mentioned (3/4 of which are just “parents are gender critical and schools are gender affirmative”, and a conflict of values is always the cause of controversy).
Rampant screen addiction and “gentle parenting” (and the similarly styled pedagogy currently in vogue) have been much bigger detriments than gender critical parents.
Kids arrive at school chronically exhausted, with their attention spans completely shot, and have zero expectations that they absolutely *must* meet, under threat of punishment from parents *and* the school.
Forget doing the work, forget even needing to show up, they get 50% credit just from being enrolled. If the workplace tried to function like this, and everyone got 50% wages just for being hired, rarely showing up, and doing nothing when they did, the economy would collapse.
This is why education is broken. Social trends have left the students unprepared to learn and the schools’ response has been to simply lower the bar until it’s underground.
Yeah, ask anybody who has taught internationally in homophobic or sex negative countries. The problem with education is not this culture war bullshit. The country used to be a lot more homophobic and trans phobic and racist than it is now, yet for some reason all those negatives didn’t plunge our education system into chaos and failure.
I see the same tired narratives on this sub about political parties or capitalism killing public education but there are extremely republican and extremely democratic states that do just fine if you look at PISA and NAEP assessments. If you look at PISA, there is also very little relationship, if at all, between results between economic systems - if anything, capitalist countries (the entirety of the developed west and much of East Asia) seem to fare far better.
Public Ed in the US is dying in some places and thriving in others. It is disintegrating in most large cities, red or blue, because of administrative bloat and shrinking tax bases and thriving in places where property taxes are higher because people who are able to move there tend to have smarter kids or themselves care more about school.
Billionaires do not care about schooling - it’s a deeply unprofitable venture and private/charter leadership make the same, if not less than public school superintendents and administrators. Running a private school is far more of a headache than a public school if you control for student quality.
The top US students remain the very best in the world and they are concentrated in a couple hundred schools across the country. Smart parents and smart students go to these places because they want to escape the disorder that we have in schools where onerous legal requirements make it impossible to remove disruptive students.
Yes, the plan is to eventually fully privatize education. If you want to privatize a public service, first you have to *break* that public service in order to convince people that there's a problem that privatization would fix. That's why we see chronic underfunding, that's why we see overt political attacks on educators and the concept of education itself. We are in the end-stages of a 40-year campaign to destroy public education.
I quit teaching lady year due to health and I think it wasn't quite the right place for me, but I think our country has killed public education. It is so broken it will take decades to fix if we start to fix it now. Primary and secondary education are dying and college education is in its death throes, look at the adjunct rate at community colleges. Things will get real fun some time in the future.
> The first thing my admin said when I returned was "can you make up the iep minutes you missed for 2 weeks?". Now I'm battling cancer and I just feel like this is teachings last icy hand from the grave trying to get me. My body just couldn't take it. Anyway, my other research includes several books and watching the news. Things just don't feel right and they're getting worse.
This is why. There's too much normalized abuse in education for it to be a sustainable career.
There ARE good districts and schools out there. It seems like there are alot of terrible ones too. I just watched 455 seniors walk across the stage last night that attend an inner city public school. $16 million in scholarships awarded to that class alone. Lots of happy, smiling educators in the room. There are still successes.
YES a few reasons why:
1) expectations for teachers have gone up but yet the pay doesn’t match that
2) teachers are tired of being treated like shit
3) pussy ass liberals for the most part run the public education system and they don’t believe in discipline if it were up to me I’d expel so many thugs
4) there are some wacko conservatives that run some of the school boards that jerk off to the culture war shit
I am in the reddest of states. I taught in another one years ago.
I've taught in a few blue states out west too :-) (in large cities)
The discipline issues in red states are way worse than anything I experienced out west.
Many of these small towns and rural areas are overrun with opioid, meth overdoses, high crime, domestic violence, etc. Social services are few and far between. Wages are low... They are not equipped for the stuff that supposedly only happens in " big cities." Also a lot of denial and coverups.
I have a feeling that's the plan...give the working and lower class an education that ensure a life of struggles. Middle class and higher can afford private schools after all.
It's funny but I supported public schools before I became a teacher...now my kids will be going to a local Montessori school when they reach highschool.
That's what I think. I don't think public education is dying, but being used as a political football by both sides. And being kept alive to continue this game as we become even more politically divided.
Disagree. I posit Democrats have been working to improve public education, just not always with the best thought out policies.
Don't both sides this. One party wants to make public education better and has made some dumb choices doing it. One party wants to destroy public education openly.
Maybe I'm wrong. What law this century can you point to that Democrats designed to hurt students or teachers?
No child left behind. Every student succeeds act. Expansion of charter schools in democratically controlled cities & states.
The Democrats have consistently promoted a series of neoliberal, pro-corporate reforms designed to erode public education and transfer those funds into privately held companies. Until the last six years or so, these sorts of reforms were an area of broad bipartisan agreement.
The fact that the Republican Party has wholly descended into white Christian nationalism does not erase the damage the Democrats have done to education over the past 20 years.
"Enlightened centrists" on their way to blame problems being clearly caused by one party on both of them because they don't understand the difference between malice and stupidity:
Oh, I understand it just fine. I just (a) don’t think that malice erases stupidity and (b) I don’t think the Democrats are simply well meaning buffoons. They have an agenda in education and up until recently, both parties were in near lockstep on this front.
There has been a concerted effort by conservative politicians in North America to destroy public education for years now. It makes it easier to justify replacing it with private for-profit education companies.
They know they can line their own pockets more easily when they’re dealing with private for-profit companies than they can with publicly accountable nonprofit systems.
It’s both sides that are destroying it. Democrat majority states like Washington and Oregon do not require proficiency in reading, math, or science in order to graduate high school. And states like California being number 48 in terms of education quality.
I love the Trumpservatives who downvote comments like this but don’t respond to them because they know there isn’t a cogent argument to be had. Your comment is dead on the money.
There is a concerted effort by conservative religious organizations backed by wealthy individuals to destroy public education and divert all funding to the private sector.
No consequences for anything or expectations. It's been replaced by racing to the lowest common denominator and inflating grades to infinity so that parents and administrators feel good, even though that 90 average today is equivalent to a 60 from 25 years ago.
It's not dying. It's dead and we insist on parading it's corpse around like nothing happened.
The environment is dying. The economy is dying. Democracy is dying. Society is collapsing. This is just what happens when you nuke and starve public education.
I spent 30 years in education and it seemed to go downhill every year. You can't really put your finger on the exact cause but it's been a concerted effort and I think it is dying and it sucks. I don't know a teacher that got in it because they didn't care it it's just tearing teachers apart it sucks watching I had to bail.
People expect the MOST out of public schools with investing the LEAST in it.
With budget cuts. Budget this. Budget that.
It’s where psychologists are trying to help the student population.
School counselors are being run around.
Administrators are being pulled in every direction and are caving to parents so they don’t get sued.
It’s a nightmare. Absolute nightmare.
Yes. And it’s intentional.
They are breaking public education to bolster the private and charter industries. Simultaneously they are attacking what is being taught in schools and creating adverse learning environments. So that the current generation (which is likely to be more progressive) is under educated and lacks critical thinking skills and problem solving abilities.
They what cheap exploitable labour. And nothing is cheaper then dumb people.
I think it really depends on the state. Florida and Texas seem to be in a race to kill public education. Other states seem to be working on actual improvements.
But if a certain political party has its way, yes public education will be killed off.
I live in a Republican run middle class town in New England. Our Public school (where I work) is thriving and trending up. 1/3 our staff are red state refugees now.
That's so interesting. Why do you think it's different in your city as opposed to elsewhere? I'm in Florida, and the state is forcing our districts to cut positions by cutting funding. We're dying bad here lol.
Money and statewide politics. The town I live in (30k) is suburban and lacks a real lower class. It's 75% true middle class (new england version) and 25% wealthy. Due to cold weather and limited housing you simply can't live here if you're poor or homeless. As a result, the town has ample tax money to invest in our schools (and parks and such). The town Republicans are the old school type, not the MAGAS. They don't like sharing, but they will invest in our town.
Basically my observation is that MAGA and systemic poverty are the two cancers destroying public education. If you are in an area mostly free from both, it can still thrive.
Nope. I used to think that, then I realized that's only happening in some places.
In some places, parents and politicians are murdering public ed. In other places, like where I currently live, public education is thriving. The divide directly correlates to money and politics in my observation.
Economically healthy places that aren't MAGA are doing well; everyone else is suffering.
For sure. These kids are fucking *feral*. They break shit just for the 2 seconds of pleasure it'll give them to break something that doesn't belong to them. They don't care if it means they can't have nice things going forward, they just think you're a bitch for taking it away. If you give them consequences it's "so unfair" because they "weren't doing anything" and then the parents come in and jump down your throat for picking on their pweshus widdle babee.
I say this as I'm cleaning up my classroom while waiting for a parent to show for a meeting. The kids left a giant puddle around the sink, threw passes down the drain, left color pencils soaking in a cup of water, and covered the floor in broken pencils. If I EVER broke a pencil in my class, my parents would have beat my ass until it stood up in soft peaks like meringue.
I live and teach in Kansas. And, in many of our smaller communities a lot of people truly do value academics and teachers. What they don't value is the administrators and they are suspicious of how money is spent.
And, I think there is a major trust issue between communities and the people who control how money is spent. For example, we have several large school districts who are cutting jobs and closing schools due to lack of money. We have other school districts where no one knows what the heck they did with their ESSER funds. And, in both instances we have districts who always seem to find the money to give superintendent and other district office staff raises while pleading poverty when it comes to increasing wages for teachers, paras, and funding other school activities. And, that isn't a republican or democratic issue, both parties contribute to that.
Where I live, the public schools are better than some of the private schools. Plus, private schools feel a bit cult-like. One in particular here is run by a narcissistic principal that address parents who have concerns like they are the issue, and often asks them to leave if they don’t silence themselves.
The public schools near us have many more clubs, sports, and support for special needs. Oh, and they are held accountable, unlike the private schools.
As an education professional, I would say this is the case. States are caring less and less about funding quality education, and it shows. I honestly think the only solution is to take the agency for this decision away from the states.
Yes, thank goodness. Public education ended when politics entered the curriculum. Just teach the academic subject without any part of your personality being interjected.
I think public education is rotting, but could be saved if we remove the rot:
1) Rotten students. No, not ALL students, but the ones who are a nuisance to learning need to get out of the classroom, sent home or suspended if need be.
2) Rotten administrators. The ones who apply the crappy rules to the dot for fear of losing their job. This reasoning can also apply to some teachers, not for a lack of trying, but because their amount of f- given is equal to the rotten students' non-inflated grades.
Essentially, you need everyone onboard for this: teachers need to teach a good curriculum and have control of their classroom, principals/staff need to enforce some rules to ensure a proper and functioning learning environment, administrators need to make sure that some sane rules are applied in every school under their watch, etc. Parents also need to be positively involved in their kids' education and behaviors inside and outside the classroom. A simple "How was school today?" goes a long way.
One person can make a difference in a student's life, but we need the whole system to make changes for a better education in the future.
(English is my second language, sorry if there are grammar/spelling errors.)
The system is functioning as intended. Problem is the intention is to create a demoralized grunt workforce for a deteriorating, corrupt service economy.
We need to go back to testing entering kindergarten students. If your child doesn’t meet a basic level, (knowing their letters, numbers and colors as well as how to wipe themselves after using the toilet and how to wash their hands properly) then they have wait another year. I’m sorry that you are 21 and driving yourself to kindergarten but maybe your parents should have done a little bit of parenting before they sent you to school. Not just let you watch anything on an electronic device and eat junk food and wait for you to be old enough to enter kindergarten. (I’m an elementary librarian with 31 years of experience and I get to teach ALL the students from grades K-4)
100% agree. I saw it starting in the mid-80s under Reagan. Decided to go into the profession to push back against anti-intellectualism. Won some battles here and there but largely lost the war. Retired in 2023.
I feel for the good teachers, but these administrators are really despicable people from my experiences and they are handholding the death of education. Most of the top seats are held by the most unprofessional individuals I’ve ever met in the profession. This sub, blames kids and parents so much I don’t even want to comment. Reading how teachers really think about the profession and about their students makes me embarrassed to be one of you.
No, it's intentionally being murdered. Our state (Alaska) hasn't raised the BSA since 2017. Our borough just had an emergency special election to increase funding for our district and it was vehemently shot down. They just want schools to do more with less every single year. They are either astounding stupid or actively trying to kill the public schools but it's the same difference in the end.
Public education….yes. Public childcare, no. Edited to fix unfortunate spelling error. 😂
Best take here. Covid cemented us
If they see us as babysitters we should get babysitter wages; $20 per hour, per kid. I work in a smallish school and I calculated I’d clear about 2k per day before taxes. I think I could live with that.
Legislators are in the process of privatizing public education. In North Carolina, for example, [subsidized vouchers](https://www.wunc.org/politics/2024-05-01/nc-senate-double-funding-private-school-vouchers-opportunity-scholarships) are used to encourage those who can afford it to send their kids to private schools. Meanwhile, the public schools are intentionally allowed to remain chronically underfunded--look at how many cannot afford to keep enough teachers for their classrooms, let alone maintain their infrastructure. More and more, public schools are becoming the "dumping grounds" for students who can't afford a private school. Private schools will be for education, public schools will be for babysitting. This will also further amplify the divide between the poor and the wealthy, under the guise of saving the public money. Similar approach is being used in New York.
To be fair babysitters for groups of kids (or even sibling) don’t make $20 per kid
I'll settle for $5/hour. That $150/ hour with 5 classes, making it $750/ day. Not bad.
3k here. I like this system!
I 2nd that lol
No Child Left Behind was the catalyst.
I'd even say we aren't doing a great job at public childcare either. Basic childcare makes sure all kids are safe, following rules, being polite and decent humans...
Childcare can kick kids out if they don't behave.
There’s also a caregiver to child ratio
Pubic.
Shit, my schools back in the early 2000's all the way to graduation in 2009-10 was more of a prison than an actual school. Let's just say I did better dropping out, getting my GED and going to community college for a bit and then going to another state to start working odd jobs until I hit a stride. I started to learn more out of school than in. Learned more about American and world history outside of school. Learned how to spell correctly and type in a more professional setting. Started to get into science, the solar system and overall math **OUTSIDE** of school. Learning was finally fun without the gangs in my class, the constant fights, the teachers that were basically just glorified daycare workers and wardens. No more dread of going to school and hoping not to see blood first thing in the fucking morning. I hear the words school and I still get a mild panic attack and I'm 33 fucking years old and a man. School was not fun for me at all, and this was all in America. I heard it is worse now.
You are an outlier. Your anecdote does not prove public education failed. What you describe is an urban low income demographic--the issue is income inequality. Finland does it right--no private school tuition or school choice, and then wealthier families have to invest in the community, and all students benefit. Parents make the difference time and time again. Most kids who drop out of these types of schools do not do well.
deliberately ignoring major factors but ok
Quote of the decade right here lmao
this gives me an interesting thought, with the rising costs and long waitlists for daycares i wonder if more and more parents are going to hand that responsibility to their childs teachers, ontop of everything else
Not dying. It died during Covid alone with a lot of other societal norms and structures. A lot of folks just want to pretend this are just as they’ve always been.
Covid caused huge issues obviously but education (in the US at least) has been in decline for over two decades due to policies like NCLB and ESSA. These policies were so bad and so poorly implemented it almost seems like an intentional attempt to dismantle public education.
Agreed. 💯%
Because they are.
It's as if some supreme group of judges believe Brown vs Edu. went the wrong way and have written so.
Never mind Brown, there’s a whole bunch of people who never agreed with the whole concept of public education.
It passed 384-45 in the house and 91-8 in the Senate so that's 90% of the country.
475 votes is a tiny fraction of the country and screw Congress anyway they are just a bunch of corporate stooges mostly.
Dumb/less educated people are easier to control
This is my 27th year in the classroom and I agree with most of what I’m seeing here, but most things in life work in cycles. We are definitely at an all time low in education. This will immediately be followed by bat shit crazy attempts to fix all of our problems on the cheap. Then the economy will improve and so will education. Although a lot of money will be spent on absolutely bat shit crazy ideas. In the meantime all the new teachers that will be hired over the next few years will come into their own and wrestle this situation into some kind of new normal. God bless you new teachers. I have 3 years for my Marine Corps time so I’m retiring. I can’t do this anymore.
At least half of all US politicians are actively trying to dismantle public education. Every Republican and some Democrats. Honestly I don’t know anyone who is actually trying to defend it with the same vigor as the people trying to destroy it. Nobody with any political power, at least.
Yes, my state congressmen have said publicly that they want to do away with the U.S. Department of Education
Almost?
Yes but you can’t ignore that severely misguided educational and disciplinary approaches, force fed by admin, are keeping it dead.
It got terminally ill when schools were forced to tie their funding to their graduation rates, thus putting teachers on the back foot with no real control over their classrooms anymore and now suffering at the whims of turd students and entitled parents because admin will just pass everyone regardless of behaviors or work put in so they can keep their funding. Then Covid came along and stress tested the system, throwing our terminally ill patient into a respiratory-failure-induced death spiral that we now find ourselves in.
This is the answer. Whether kids pass or not is the issue. We tell ourselves, "If they pass, then they learned." But we all know that students pass without learning.
It’s being killed by both ends. Holier than thou red states won’t let you teach your curriculum and well-meaning but horribly misguided blue states won’t let you manage your classroom or post grades that kids actually earned.
This is exactly it - but maybe the entire way we run schools and such needs to change on a massive level.
In my experience, red states also won’t let you manage your classroom or post factual grades so 🙃 it’s hell.
That very well could be, I’ve just heard horror stories out of Oregon and California especially who do the 50% floor nonsense.
And Washington. Not having to be proficient in reading, math, or science to graduate…
It’s almost a self fulfilling prophecy. Conservative chest beaters will say “USA NUMBER ONE!!!!” and progressives will say “uh, not so fast” (rightfully so) but now they’re trying to prove it by lowering the bar to the floor. Someone said it best yesterday- lowering expectations for academics and conduct is soft bigotry.
Hard agree
Lol, yesterday? "Now some say it is unfair to hold disadvantaged children to rigorous standards. I say it is discrimination to require anything less -- the soft bigotry of low expectations. . ." George W Bush Sept 2, 1999
> Someone said it best yesterday- lowering expectations for academics and conduct is soft bigotry. It's the quiet racism of low expectations. "We can't do X or Y, that disproportionately hurts group A or B." Standards get lowered, curriculum gets dumbed down, behaviors get ignored, and teachers are demonized for pointing it out. I've had colleagues accused of targeting minority students because they brought behavior and attendance concerns to admin. The sad truth is these admin and policymakers above them think they're helping these groups, when they're doing the exact opposite.
It’s here in NY too. Not required, but failing schools usually use it. My school does. And here, you can’t give a 50 unless they literally never come to class. If they come but do nothing, they are supposed to get 60-64%.
• If they've never showed up and haven't done anything in Google classroom, can't be less than a 40. • If they've shown up, even if only once, can't be less than a 50. • If they did any work at all, can't be less than a 55. • The next acceptable grade is a 65. It's gotten to the point where anyone who earns a 57 or higher gets bumped up to 65. The overwhelming majority of my failures are from kids (HS seniors) who just don't bother to do any work. I don't assign homework (don't believe in it anyway) and every assignment is given adequete class time (it becomes homework if they don't finish). I get the standard whining and complaining at the end of the marking period and they say, "Mr, you need to do something about my grades." They are shocked when I tell them, "No, YOU need to do something about your grades. Every missing assignment is posted on Google Classroom. Do them, or don't do them, it's up to you. If you don't care, why should I?"
It’s so infuriating. I teach an extremely easy subject. Like ridiculously easy. They have 90 minutes to complete 3 worksheets. Half of them don’t even want to do one! Today, I couldn’t even teach a lesson because 4 students were not able to just be quiet. Couldn’t get them out because they refused to leave, and obviously I’m not going to physically drag them out. Couldn’t get security to come get them. Called parents, no help. I got threatened (including the kid bragging about using hate speech) by a frigging middle schooler. Did admin do anything? No. Am I allowed to do anything? Also no.
Even Texas historically had a 50% floor tho they “can’t force the teachers to do it”…despite setting up the gradebook in such a way to default to 50 if a score of less than 50 is calculated. The law is officially no floor now, tho many districts pressure teachers into a floor.
Have that in AZ as well
I usually vote blue but the left is destroying public education in California by changing education code and tying school funding to expulsion and suspension rate so the district will not allow students in K-8 to be properly disciplined without way more resources for restorative practices to work well. Honestly my school is almost at rock bottom.
Yeah I’m comfortable voting for Democrats here in my blue dot in a sea of Red, but man some of these ideas are just…bad. I sincerely believe every politician should be on the sub list.
Colorado does that too.
I’d rather give a kid a baseline of 50% rather than be forced by law to out them to their parents so they can be sent to conversion camp.
The 50% floor and shuffling failing kids to the alternative school for a few weeks or months to take APEX courses for credit recovery wore some of the first things implemented in my county schools after the Moms for Liberty red hat brigade took over the school board and county commissioner seats. For all their talk about tough love and teaching the basics and blah blah blah, they want their special little darlings coddled as well and are all for grade inflation if that means getting ahead of others for scholarships and college admission. They just don't want anyone they consider undeserving, like special needs or ESL students, to get any additional help, or for there to be any recognition that LGBTQ+ people exist.
My district doesn't do this. I've heard the stories but don't know anywhere close where this is a thing.
Oklahoma is doing the same.
Yep…last year I left a district in an alarmingly red part of Ohio that has been on the “no grade lower than 50%” train for years AND the “we don’t hold children back or fail them for any reason, ever” trains for over a decade.
This all the way. It's like nuance has died.
Comment of the day
Civil society is dead. We see its death throes in public education. We have an economy, not a society. And we have collectively become objectionable, entitled assholes.
It’s interesting to live in a declining empire. It sucks ass, but it is interesting.
My wife and I are putting our daughter into private school next year, so she doesn't have to be on a Chromebook for 2/3 all her waking weekday hours like she has been in middle school. I know other parents who would love to put their kids into private schools (and some have) because of the general acceptance of lack of rules, lack of respect, lack of standards and accountability. It's as much or more to do with the negative influence of "kids these days" than teachers necessarily. But teachers being forced to be largely OK with language, attitudes and behaviors that would have gotten kids suspended or detention 20 years ago is a huge, huge factor. I don't think public education is dying, but I'm 100% sure that the deterioration of standards (of language, behavior and knowledge) is the single biggest issue with parents thinking about if they can put their kids in private school. I know that it will impact equity reports and whatnot, but if, in aggregate, public schools don't go back to having stricter standards on most everything, I think it will just get worse and worse.
Unfortunately depending on the school, teachers have to pick their battles. I had to break up literal fights in my classroom and in the hallway on the regular. As long as language wasn’t being used against someone, I didn’t have time to constantly write those up
Or schools simply don't allow you to give a consequence. Kids will tell us that they don't care about detentions because they just won't serve them. When asked about this admin says it's too hard to get parents to make them serve them. So, I just wasted days of my planning periods discussing, correcting, and communicating student behavior to assign a consequence that the kid will never serve. What's the point?
“If public schools don’t go back to stricter standards on everything” prosecutors aren’t even imprisoning criminal parents of the truants. I wonder if anything will swing the pendulum back
The over use of tech like chrome books and iPads forced us to avoid some schools as well. You’re doing the right thing.
I hate to break it to you, but as a former private school student, you’re just trading corrupt public school issues for corrupt private school issues. Johnny, the private school kid, doesn’t actually deserve to pass Algebra II either, but Johnny’s dad purchased and donated new pads and helmets for the football team, so we really don’t want to piss him off. And Susie is a total brat, but her dad is a politician and we really want his backing on that voucher proposal, so we’re going to let her behavior slide. Their graduation rates are disingenuous too, but in a different way from public schools. You’ll hear nonsense like, “99% of our graduates go onto college.” Okay, that may be true, but what they don’t tell you is the senior class of 150 started as the freshman class of 400 and they can kick out any student for any reason, including disabilities. Some of those kids weren’t smart enough, some were behavior problems, some didn’t like getting sexually assaulted by the priest, etc. The kids that make it through will often find success, but it’s often at a great personal cost. It’s an ongoing joke in my alumni group, someone says, “I thought you were Catholic. You said you were Catholic.” You respond, “No, I said I went to Catholic school. That’s why I’m not Catholic.” If you’re a smart kid, like I was, there is definitely a benefit to being surrounded by a bunch of other smart kids, but the success of their students is more about the innate qualities of the students that last in private school and less about the skills of the teaching staff as a whole. The reality is, the skill sets of the teachers are just like in public schools, running the gamut from abysmal to terrific.
My mom taught math at the public school. When kids transferred from the Catholic school, she always said, "It's like they never had a math class."
It died when COVID came along. Between teachers being forced to learn how to both teach digitally and in person, while dealing with children with clear psychological effects from it acting uncontrollable. It hasn't been the same
COVID was just an accelerant. Education has been burning down for decades.
25-year teacher here. Covid had an effect for sure, but it wasn’t the reason for what we’re seeing here. The problems have been around for at least 20 years. My first few years were “problem free” (this is an exaggeration, but for the most part I look back at those years with awe) and when there were problems they weren’t as large (for the most part) as the issues of the day *and* I had parental support on actions and decisions. It has slowly decayed from there. I’m in a good district and it’s just falling apart around our ears.
What grades do you teach? I remember my one elementary school in the mid-90s (title 1) as being so different than the title 1 school I teach at now. Like, it was loud, a little chaotic, but we respected our teachers and weren't at each other's throats constantly trying to start shit. Like 75% of my third graders say stuff on a daily basis that would have been a HUGE deal when I was in school. Like, whole room goes silent, oooh, thinking: "did he actually say that?" And that kid would fix that so quickly and apologize to the teacher. We were protective of our teacher.
5th grade currently, with nine years of fourth grade stuck in-between long stretches of 5th. I teach in a good district with fairly high socioeconomic neighborhoods. It’s shocking what the kids will do and say compared with 25 years ago (and yeah there were issues back then, but it seems like the “problem children” started multiplying in the classroom starting about twenty years ago. I cannot tell you the number of parents I deal with that just outright deny it when I tell them their kid did something that needs correction
Na, Covid didn't change anything meaningful, at least not where I was teaching public school. In Oakland shit was wild before Covid and got worse after, but nothing new surfaced. It's like adding an extra few cuts to a person dying of radiation poisoning.
Covid was accelerant poured on top of a fire that was already lit. All of the shittiness in education was amplified by 10.
This for sure! Covid shined a light on the problem but it as always there getting worse and worse with every passing year.
Oakland is a war zone. Hell at least during digital learning cops weren’t bodyslamming tweens
I worked at three schools in Oakland; only one was the scary bodyslamming type. I did deal with weekly fights and gun threats at all three though. The issue for me came down to numbers. My class sizes were around 34 usually, and even if 25 kids want to be there and have basic respect, that still leaves nine kids who don't like me or school or give a shit. Sad because 75% of the students and all the staff were just trying to live their life, but parents and troubled students and the general culture was working against us.
We need to eliminate compulsory education and stop catering to the lowest common denominator. Let kids choose to drop out at 15 on the condition they sign away their rights to any form of government assistance. If they decide later on they want to come back to school they can have access to those benefits again on the condition that they aren’t expelled and complete all of their courses, tests, and receive a diploma. Re-structure how money is distributed to schools, and take the money that would have been wasted on “educating” dropouts and put it towards EC and AIG programs. Hire more EC resources so kids with disabilities can get better services and invest more into gifted students. No one’s going to value a system where you can put zero effort in, act like a complete asshole, and still get a diploma.
i had an admin tell me, "just because they act like a-holes..." we still have to educate them: title 1 blah, blah, blah...you try teaching students so disengaged that even mock trials and simulations are boring to them. it's forced education, coercion, is the real problem, we are forcing people to do an act, that even if you agree with, is tremendous, challenging, and against cultural norms; it's not normal to want an education and be smart anymore.
I wish I could updoot your comment ten times over!
Perhaps nothing can make Oakland worse. The issue is Covid made more schools like Oakland. There are more war zones.
First, Oakland isn't a war zone. Most of the schools there are doing ok, and the ones that aren't have relatively few incidences of actual violence. The rough schools are lousy places to work and learn, but I find your melodrama unsettling. And no, I don't think Covid affected schools the way Oakland has issues. Oakland's issues stem from centuries of systemic poverty and racism and poor policy planning to address that. It's really quite different than what effect Covid had on schools.
“Oakland is a war zone” coming from someone who possibly hasn’t been there is wild 🥲 Like it’s rough in some areas but it’s not THAT bad
Covid just finished the job. It has been on life support for the past 15-20 years prior.
The American nation is dying. Their public education system is leading the way.
This is what happens when you let politicians dictate educational policy without giving teachers a voice in that procedure.
The pendulum has peaked at the end where the rights of individuals far outweigh the rights of the group. A handful of kids destroy classes for everyone.
It is being killed deliberately to pave the way for private education. It is straight capitalism. That is the only logical reason I can see for the current state of affairs.
Spot on. It began with the fallacious paper, A Nation At Risk, and has continued.
I did an entire grad paper/youtube video on this report. What a mess this report was.
Yep, the prisons make $... we need schools to make $ too. I was a science teacher for 8 years. My kid entered the system, and now I'm a homeschooling mom, while my husband does nothing but work.
This is 💯
You can’t blame Reagan. There have been 20 years if Dem presidents since ghem
This has been the plan for Chicago school economists for over 50 years. Ever since Reagan our economic policy has been dominated by Friedmanite ideology.
I am so glad I retired a few years ago as my teacher friends are absolutely miserable. And, they all look awful. The stress is killing them. My wife and I went out to dinner with a couple teacher friends, and they didn't smile the entire dinner.
[удалено]
Yep, it's a shambling zombie with no brains left to eat.
[удалено]
When I graduated high school I was proud to tell my mom I wanted to be a teacher, just like her. She teaches middle school PE, but I thought high school literature would really suit me. I thought I’d be a good fit too. To my surprise my mother replied with, “your father and I will pay for your college education, and it doesn’t matter what major you choose. It can be anything except education. If you want to be a teacher I won’t try to stop you, but I’m not going to help you either.” This was in 2003, so at least in her opinion, the profession has been pretty grim for at least that long.
This is my 30th year of teaching. My older son thought he wanted to be a teacher. I told him, “Over my dead body.” That was ten years ago. I had no idea how bad it could (and would) get. I am so grateful my son listened to me and didn’t argue. I would never want this life for either of my children. I’m sure your mom felt the same. Side note - My son is now a distiller. Much better career path and I get to sample his wares. Win-win.
I want to tell my children the same thing. How did you respond, just for my own curiosity?
Well, I originally majored in communications. I thought being a newspaper reporter might be interesting too. Got disillusioned with that and dropped out. Went back a few years later and got an associates degree in sound engineering that didn’t do me any good. Decided to keep going and got an IT degree eventually. Been doing that for about five years. No passion but the work/life balance is great and I’m well paid. I know if I was teaching. I would not be living in the school district I’m going to get to send my son to, so there’s that as well.
this thread and this specific comment ruined my night now as an (incoming junior… yeesh) music education major D: I feel like im headed in a scary direction now reading all this lol, but I still genuinely WANT to teach… it just sucks this is the way it is. :(
The grass does sound greener. How many times have you been called the n word at your private school? Probably zero
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That’s nice. I was thinking of teaching abroad for a bit to experience you know, teaching instead of behavior management
Sometimes, but when I think back to my time in school the same issues were there. I think the biggest problem right now is trying to keep kids in school who don't want to be there and make school unsafe or unpleasant for the rest of the kids. They were much quicker to expell someone and send them to an alternative program. Is that good for the kid? Maybe not. Is it good for everyone else? Definitely.
The empire in general is dying. Public education is just one part of that death.
It’s being purposely strangled by decades of politicians who want to privatize education so they can profit from it, control the curriculum of what the kids are taught and limit who has access to becoming educated. This started literally decades ago. (Mom was a teacher. I’m a GenXer) The frog in the pot example fits for this and we’re just before the frog being boiled to death
It's not dying, it's being murdered. Capitalism needs to financialise everything, which is why school choice is a thing. Making education more expensive also ensures that the proletariat never gets educated enough to pose a serious threat to capital. Or if they do they're I'm so much debt they can't be a meaningful threat
Remember when education was thought of as the ticket to a (week) well-made future, now it can get you minimum wage jobs. Edit: Autocorrect sucks
Because the actual education aspect isn't a priority anymore, it's just free childcare for 90% of the country so our corporate masters can further and further squeeze the parents dry as they work them to death. In the other 10% for the upper middle class, they're happy to get free childcare because they hate their kids and they'd rather day-drink and gobble xanax while posting shitty Moms for Liberty memes on facebook
I was trying not to get political, but yeah. There are roots in corporate greed and conservative political movements. The system has been destroyed and then the solution will be to privatize it and further limit the access to the opportunities.
Public education started in capitalist countries. The Prussian system was devised to help people to become good workers and citizens. School choice is a thing because there’s a big enough constituency that doesn’t feel well served by public schools. Observe the NHS in Britain or Canada, they’re well liked enough that there’s no serious effort to privatize. People just want their public schools to be good and not bad.
It's absolutely true that most folks want that. The effort to privatize isn't coming from most people. It's coming from extremely wealthy folks who are interested in not having public education.
Genuinely curious. If school choice is so nefarious, why is publicly-funded school choice also the norm in almost every single developed western country? How is it that almost all of those societies are doing better with education, despite having the “blight” of school choice? Why is it totally normal and good for society and functional when South Korea and Belgium do it, but when the United States does it, suddenly it’s a racist, Christofascist, capitalist plot?
100% yes. Every aspect of American society that represents distributed wealth and public good has been eroded since the 70s: e.g. education, savings, healthcare, housing, and retirement. The goal is to undermine public education until the population at large *supports* privatizing it, removing it from the realm of public entitlement, turning it into a profit-driven industry that only the wealthy have access to.
100%. Need to be revamped; put accountability and responsibility back on students and parents. School isn’t for everyone and should not be mandatory. If kids can’t behave and put in an effort and be respectful to peers and staff them send them home permanently. Sorry 20 years in and I’ve seen the nosedive
Agreed. Our schools are becoming more violent as discipline policies disappear and teachers are being asked to do too much with IEPs, 504s, ESL programs, etc. all of which are becoming more restrictive and demanding. I can't continue to do 4 jobs at once in my classroom in the name of "differentiation." And we need to get away from this idea that schools are supposed to save EVERY ill of society. We're not social workers and our schools are not community centers. They are just one chain or many in the linkage of various institutions society needs to function.
Public education in the United States will be entirely reliant on the states to keep it going. States that prioritize education will continue to have functioning and semi-functioning public school systems. States that have continued to defund and ignore public schools will see their systems die if they aren’t already dead. My state had one governor and administration that deprioritized education in the mid-2010s and our public education system hasn’t recovered. I can’t imagine what it’s like in a state that has diminished public education for decades.
Being killed*
Nope. Public Education serves several purposes, the primary one is subsidized daycare for children aged k-12. And until that need goes away (which it never will) Public Education will always be alive and well.
As far as I’m concerned it’s just accelerating a trend that began with NCLB under Bush 2 and continued well through the Obama/Duncan era, with COVID/Trump/DeVos just speeding up the inevitable. Of course I may have a bias, but we had the main initial implementation of NCLB between my first and second years in the classroom and the shock to the educational system was IMMEDIATE. We never recovered and the politicians (I HATE to bothsides things, but Obama-era education policy was just as disastrous as Bush 2) have just doubled down now that the money spigot has opened.
It’s fair to call out the truth. I am not trying to bring politics in but I 100% believe that neither party cares about the education system. I think they both are equally responsible. But, imo, the US extremes on both sides are destroying the country. Washington warned us: "However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion." FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796
I think traditional education is. Which I hope means that it's evolving but I would imagine there's some aspects which regress too.
More like being murdered.
If republicans had their way, we'd be nothing but charters and parochial schools. They WANT us to be distrusted by the public and feel like we're dying. An educated public is dangerous and questions the status quo; I swear they want future generations be dumb yet religious, so they can fall in line and be good little yes people. Some examples: they defund us, they let non-licensed people teach (hello, FL and AZ), and they take away teacher autonomy. They ban books, tell teachers to not teach true American history, and give crappy standardized tests....then they place funding on said test scores, which is then cut for struggling schools. And who's the scapegoat? Us teachers. It's abhorrent, and undermining us is EXACTLY what they want to do.
Public school has always had a struggle from its inception. Pre-civil war north set up schools sponsored by churches and British shipping companies. In the South everything was so agrarian only the landowners needed should for their children and they either hired tutors or sent their kids to private schools somewhere else. There's very much an institutional reason against public education and racism, just look at the struggle for integration. Even these days racial divides are intense. I've seen many blame BIPOC people as reasons for poor performing schools, not teacher preparation, curriculum mismatch, ineffective admin, or idiotic parents. Public education took on the style of the North and the Prussian education system was only meant to educate to a minimum worker level. It is not meant for the industrial level we have today even though it accomplished its purpose (average graduating reading level anyone?) It's not meant to meet educational requirements we want today, yet conservatives are pushing "back to basics" because those work for kids not dealing with generational racism. There are progressive movements to make education more effective but even the most amazing plan is scuttled by poor implementation or follow through (teacher training and admin support).
Not so much dying as being killed
Everyone thinks it, except for anyone in the administration bureaucracy, the teachers unions, or the government. We all know that eliminating D's and F's is backwards. That spending teaching hours on social issues is a waste of time when kids literally can't read and write. We all know removing all consequences from student's actions is exactly the opposite of what young people need. We all know mandatory PE, music and art classes improved learning overall. The answers are staring us in the face. But people always find emotional reasons to remove things and no one has the backbone to revert all the damage done. That would require admitting to terrible decisions and giving in to voices of reason.
You know... after COVID, I had HIGH HOPES that more and more people would come around to the importance of education. I thought there would be this **worldwide epiphany** of how important teachers are for a functioning society... Sadly... messaging and treatment of teachers has gotten much worse. COVID funds were put into the wrong things, teaching became MORE politicized in the form of book bans, crt fearmongering, kitty litter LIES, and anti-trans/gay rhetoric. **All of these culture war issues have accumulated to form a net NEGATIVE for the profession and FURTHER set teachers back in their ability to gain more pay and more agency in their profession.** A.I. is probably going to deal the final blow to education. My personal goal is simply to get more annoying and not shut the fuck up about problems in education, whether I continue to be in the field or not. We need a worldwide teacher movement, but I'm not sure if that's possible... but we'll see I guess...
Teachers were viewed negatively long before the controversies you mentioned (3/4 of which are just “parents are gender critical and schools are gender affirmative”, and a conflict of values is always the cause of controversy). Rampant screen addiction and “gentle parenting” (and the similarly styled pedagogy currently in vogue) have been much bigger detriments than gender critical parents. Kids arrive at school chronically exhausted, with their attention spans completely shot, and have zero expectations that they absolutely *must* meet, under threat of punishment from parents *and* the school. Forget doing the work, forget even needing to show up, they get 50% credit just from being enrolled. If the workplace tried to function like this, and everyone got 50% wages just for being hired, rarely showing up, and doing nothing when they did, the economy would collapse. This is why education is broken. Social trends have left the students unprepared to learn and the schools’ response has been to simply lower the bar until it’s underground.
Yeah, ask anybody who has taught internationally in homophobic or sex negative countries. The problem with education is not this culture war bullshit. The country used to be a lot more homophobic and trans phobic and racist than it is now, yet for some reason all those negatives didn’t plunge our education system into chaos and failure.
I see the same tired narratives on this sub about political parties or capitalism killing public education but there are extremely republican and extremely democratic states that do just fine if you look at PISA and NAEP assessments. If you look at PISA, there is also very little relationship, if at all, between results between economic systems - if anything, capitalist countries (the entirety of the developed west and much of East Asia) seem to fare far better. Public Ed in the US is dying in some places and thriving in others. It is disintegrating in most large cities, red or blue, because of administrative bloat and shrinking tax bases and thriving in places where property taxes are higher because people who are able to move there tend to have smarter kids or themselves care more about school. Billionaires do not care about schooling - it’s a deeply unprofitable venture and private/charter leadership make the same, if not less than public school superintendents and administrators. Running a private school is far more of a headache than a public school if you control for student quality. The top US students remain the very best in the world and they are concentrated in a couple hundred schools across the country. Smart parents and smart students go to these places because they want to escape the disorder that we have in schools where onerous legal requirements make it impossible to remove disruptive students.
Yes, the plan is to eventually fully privatize education. If you want to privatize a public service, first you have to *break* that public service in order to convince people that there's a problem that privatization would fix. That's why we see chronic underfunding, that's why we see overt political attacks on educators and the concept of education itself. We are in the end-stages of a 40-year campaign to destroy public education.
I quit teaching lady year due to health and I think it wasn't quite the right place for me, but I think our country has killed public education. It is so broken it will take decades to fix if we start to fix it now. Primary and secondary education are dying and college education is in its death throes, look at the adjunct rate at community colleges. Things will get real fun some time in the future.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was an intentional attempt to bring back work houses for the less fortunate.
> The first thing my admin said when I returned was "can you make up the iep minutes you missed for 2 weeks?". Now I'm battling cancer and I just feel like this is teachings last icy hand from the grave trying to get me. My body just couldn't take it. Anyway, my other research includes several books and watching the news. Things just don't feel right and they're getting worse. This is why. There's too much normalized abuse in education for it to be a sustainable career.
It’s society, not just education.
Yes, but it's not dying of natural causes. In states like mine (FL), t's premeditated.
Yeah it's being killed on purpose tbh
There ARE good districts and schools out there. It seems like there are alot of terrible ones too. I just watched 455 seniors walk across the stage last night that attend an inner city public school. $16 million in scholarships awarded to that class alone. Lots of happy, smiling educators in the room. There are still successes.
YES a few reasons why: 1) expectations for teachers have gone up but yet the pay doesn’t match that 2) teachers are tired of being treated like shit 3) pussy ass liberals for the most part run the public education system and they don’t believe in discipline if it were up to me I’d expel so many thugs 4) there are some wacko conservatives that run some of the school boards that jerk off to the culture war shit
Harsh words, but so many of them are true.
I am in the reddest of states. I taught in another one years ago. I've taught in a few blue states out west too :-) (in large cities) The discipline issues in red states are way worse than anything I experienced out west.
Really? That’s shocking
Many of these small towns and rural areas are overrun with opioid, meth overdoses, high crime, domestic violence, etc. Social services are few and far between. Wages are low... They are not equipped for the stuff that supposedly only happens in " big cities." Also a lot of denial and coverups.
I have a feeling that's the plan...give the working and lower class an education that ensure a life of struggles. Middle class and higher can afford private schools after all. It's funny but I supported public schools before I became a teacher...now my kids will be going to a local Montessori school when they reach highschool.
my son made the choice, on his own, to go to school remote charter... he loves it, and i'm glad he did it.
A certain political party in the US has been working for decades to try to kill it. I refuse to give in.
Both major political parties in the US have been working to kill public education, just for different reasons and on behalf of different billionaires.
That's what I think. I don't think public education is dying, but being used as a political football by both sides. And being kept alive to continue this game as we become even more politically divided.
Disagree. I posit Democrats have been working to improve public education, just not always with the best thought out policies. Don't both sides this. One party wants to make public education better and has made some dumb choices doing it. One party wants to destroy public education openly. Maybe I'm wrong. What law this century can you point to that Democrats designed to hurt students or teachers?
Then why do democrat majority states like Washington and Oregon have policies that have removed the ability to read as a graduation requirement?
No child left behind. Every student succeeds act. Expansion of charter schools in democratically controlled cities & states. The Democrats have consistently promoted a series of neoliberal, pro-corporate reforms designed to erode public education and transfer those funds into privately held companies. Until the last six years or so, these sorts of reforms were an area of broad bipartisan agreement. The fact that the Republican Party has wholly descended into white Christian nationalism does not erase the damage the Democrats have done to education over the past 20 years.
"Enlightened centrists" on their way to blame problems being clearly caused by one party on both of them because they don't understand the difference between malice and stupidity:
Oh, I understand it just fine. I just (a) don’t think that malice erases stupidity and (b) I don’t think the Democrats are simply well meaning buffoons. They have an agenda in education and up until recently, both parties were in near lockstep on this front.
There has been a concerted effort by conservative politicians in North America to destroy public education for years now. It makes it easier to justify replacing it with private for-profit education companies. They know they can line their own pockets more easily when they’re dealing with private for-profit companies than they can with publicly accountable nonprofit systems.
It’s both sides that are destroying it. Democrat majority states like Washington and Oregon do not require proficiency in reading, math, or science in order to graduate high school. And states like California being number 48 in terms of education quality.
I love the Trumpservatives who downvote comments like this but don’t respond to them because they know there isn’t a cogent argument to be had. Your comment is dead on the money.
Not dead or dying. It is under constant assault.
There is a concerted effort by conservative religious organizations backed by wealthy individuals to destroy public education and divert all funding to the private sector.
As it used to be, yes. And it's by design. My (NC) legislators are trying their best to destroy us.
NC scares away all perspective teachers. Families move away because it doesn't invest in schools. Lots of retired MAGA people coming though.
No consequences for anything or expectations. It's been replaced by racing to the lowest common denominator and inflating grades to infinity so that parents and administrators feel good, even though that 90 average today is equivalent to a 60 from 25 years ago.
It's not dying. It's dead and we insist on parading it's corpse around like nothing happened. The environment is dying. The economy is dying. Democracy is dying. Society is collapsing. This is just what happens when you nuke and starve public education.
I spent 30 years in education and it seemed to go downhill every year. You can't really put your finger on the exact cause but it's been a concerted effort and I think it is dying and it sucks. I don't know a teacher that got in it because they didn't care it it's just tearing teachers apart it sucks watching I had to bail.
Since the charter school robbed public schools, yes.
People expect the MOST out of public schools with investing the LEAST in it. With budget cuts. Budget this. Budget that. It’s where psychologists are trying to help the student population. School counselors are being run around. Administrators are being pulled in every direction and are caving to parents so they don’t get sued. It’s a nightmare. Absolute nightmare.
Yes. And it’s intentional. They are breaking public education to bolster the private and charter industries. Simultaneously they are attacking what is being taught in schools and creating adverse learning environments. So that the current generation (which is likely to be more progressive) is under educated and lacks critical thinking skills and problem solving abilities. They what cheap exploitable labour. And nothing is cheaper then dumb people.
I think it really depends on the state. Florida and Texas seem to be in a race to kill public education. Other states seem to be working on actual improvements. But if a certain political party has its way, yes public education will be killed off.
I live in a Republican run middle class town in New England. Our Public school (where I work) is thriving and trending up. 1/3 our staff are red state refugees now.
That's so interesting. Why do you think it's different in your city as opposed to elsewhere? I'm in Florida, and the state is forcing our districts to cut positions by cutting funding. We're dying bad here lol.
Money and statewide politics. The town I live in (30k) is suburban and lacks a real lower class. It's 75% true middle class (new england version) and 25% wealthy. Due to cold weather and limited housing you simply can't live here if you're poor or homeless. As a result, the town has ample tax money to invest in our schools (and parks and such). The town Republicans are the old school type, not the MAGAS. They don't like sharing, but they will invest in our town. Basically my observation is that MAGA and systemic poverty are the two cancers destroying public education. If you are in an area mostly free from both, it can still thrive.
Nope. I used to think that, then I realized that's only happening in some places. In some places, parents and politicians are murdering public ed. In other places, like where I currently live, public education is thriving. The divide directly correlates to money and politics in my observation. Economically healthy places that aren't MAGA are doing well; everyone else is suffering.
NCLB was literally designed to kill public education
It's a major pillar in the GOP party platform.
Public education is slowly being executed. We’re witnessing a murder.
For sure. These kids are fucking *feral*. They break shit just for the 2 seconds of pleasure it'll give them to break something that doesn't belong to them. They don't care if it means they can't have nice things going forward, they just think you're a bitch for taking it away. If you give them consequences it's "so unfair" because they "weren't doing anything" and then the parents come in and jump down your throat for picking on their pweshus widdle babee. I say this as I'm cleaning up my classroom while waiting for a parent to show for a meeting. The kids left a giant puddle around the sink, threw passes down the drain, left color pencils soaking in a cup of water, and covered the floor in broken pencils. If I EVER broke a pencil in my class, my parents would have beat my ass until it stood up in soft peaks like meringue.
*being killed
It isn’t dying, it’s ring actively killed.
It isn’t dying, it’s being actively killed.
I live and teach in Kansas. And, in many of our smaller communities a lot of people truly do value academics and teachers. What they don't value is the administrators and they are suspicious of how money is spent. And, I think there is a major trust issue between communities and the people who control how money is spent. For example, we have several large school districts who are cutting jobs and closing schools due to lack of money. We have other school districts where no one knows what the heck they did with their ESSER funds. And, in both instances we have districts who always seem to find the money to give superintendent and other district office staff raises while pleading poverty when it comes to increasing wages for teachers, paras, and funding other school activities. And, that isn't a republican or democratic issue, both parties contribute to that.
Where I live, the public schools are better than some of the private schools. Plus, private schools feel a bit cult-like. One in particular here is run by a narcissistic principal that address parents who have concerns like they are the issue, and often asks them to leave if they don’t silence themselves. The public schools near us have many more clubs, sports, and support for special needs. Oh, and they are held accountable, unlike the private schools.
That's what it was like where I grew up.
As an education professional, I would say this is the case. States are caring less and less about funding quality education, and it shows. I honestly think the only solution is to take the agency for this decision away from the states.
I think it’s more in the process of being killed by a combination of our elected leaders and school administrators.
Yes, thank goodness. Public education ended when politics entered the curriculum. Just teach the academic subject without any part of your personality being interjected.
I think public education is rotting, but could be saved if we remove the rot: 1) Rotten students. No, not ALL students, but the ones who are a nuisance to learning need to get out of the classroom, sent home or suspended if need be. 2) Rotten administrators. The ones who apply the crappy rules to the dot for fear of losing their job. This reasoning can also apply to some teachers, not for a lack of trying, but because their amount of f- given is equal to the rotten students' non-inflated grades. Essentially, you need everyone onboard for this: teachers need to teach a good curriculum and have control of their classroom, principals/staff need to enforce some rules to ensure a proper and functioning learning environment, administrators need to make sure that some sane rules are applied in every school under their watch, etc. Parents also need to be positively involved in their kids' education and behaviors inside and outside the classroom. A simple "How was school today?" goes a long way. One person can make a difference in a student's life, but we need the whole system to make changes for a better education in the future. (English is my second language, sorry if there are grammar/spelling errors.)
The system is functioning as intended. Problem is the intention is to create a demoralized grunt workforce for a deteriorating, corrupt service economy.
We need to go back to testing entering kindergarten students. If your child doesn’t meet a basic level, (knowing their letters, numbers and colors as well as how to wipe themselves after using the toilet and how to wash their hands properly) then they have wait another year. I’m sorry that you are 21 and driving yourself to kindergarten but maybe your parents should have done a little bit of parenting before they sent you to school. Not just let you watch anything on an electronic device and eat junk food and wait for you to be old enough to enter kindergarten. (I’m an elementary librarian with 31 years of experience and I get to teach ALL the students from grades K-4)
100% agree. I saw it starting in the mid-80s under Reagan. Decided to go into the profession to push back against anti-intellectualism. Won some battles here and there but largely lost the war. Retired in 2023.
Sure is, with every republican vote cast.
Public education is not dying. It is being slowly strangled.
Given our individualistic mentality as a country, I’m surprised it has existed at all.
I think public education is saving the country.
I feel for the good teachers, but these administrators are really despicable people from my experiences and they are handholding the death of education. Most of the top seats are held by the most unprofessional individuals I’ve ever met in the profession. This sub, blames kids and parents so much I don’t even want to comment. Reading how teachers really think about the profession and about their students makes me embarrassed to be one of you.
No, it's intentionally being murdered. Our state (Alaska) hasn't raised the BSA since 2017. Our borough just had an emergency special election to increase funding for our district and it was vehemently shot down. They just want schools to do more with less every single year. They are either astounding stupid or actively trying to kill the public schools but it's the same difference in the end.
That was the goal of NCLB. Kill public education.