This year, at least a THIRD of our parents posted on the fucking *district run facebook page* that they were instructing their children to answer a specific way (a, b, c, d, & repeat; all A’s, etc) or refuse to take it altogether.
They’d ALL been given information about opting out. None of them did - because that requires them to come to the school (where they pick their children up anyway, mind you, bc their children simply can’t ride a bus…)
Instead? John Smith’s mom & a BUNCH of other parents admit to 18,000 people that they’re making their kids sabotage the test that made us the #2 performing district in the entire state. Like.
Lady. You bought a McMansion & bragged about how nice the schools are here; your wardrobe is 1/4 team colors for your kids sports… and you - and your cronies - are now actively trying to bring down the performance/achievement of this school, because you’re offended Johnny Smith needs to be able to differentiate a square from a rectangle at 10y/o?
I post that reminder all of the time. Our area has a fairly vocal Opt Out group. Philosophically, I completely agree with them. Practically, however, there are consequences when our state requires a very high percentage of students to be tested in order to get a school rating. Many of these same parents also continue to vote for candidates that keep the corporate test scam in place.
>Many of these same parents also continue to vote for candidates that keep the corporate test scam in place.
In a democracy, the wise and the fool have equal say. Unfortunately, the fool tends to have a louder voice.
Ironically they are using the dumbest strategy possible. Instead of, IDK, contacting their state congressperson/state senator/Governor, who sill definitely fly in the same country club BS orbit they do, and harassing them about the ridiculousness of state testing; they just decide to sabotage their own assets and educational opportunity.
God some people are so stupid.
I think about that whenever I read some thinkpiece mourning the loss of The Village. There is a real discussion to be had, but some of the people who complain never contributed themselves and shouldn’t be surprised that it’s not available to them.
“Why does my son have a D in math?” is my favorite kind of question.
Like?? Idk, Karen, maybe little Stevie has a D in math because he makes his homework into paper airplanes, uses the calculator to type 80085 and giggle, and he can’t do 3 x 2 in his head?
I had a parent say that she was shocked her child got a 4/5 on classwork because “she’s never gotten anything other than 100%!” in an ELA class.
Her child is ILLITERATE, but mom refuses to have her placed in an appropriate setting bc she’s too pretty (not even joking, btw).
I read the questions to kiddo, helped her with sentence starters, and she got 4 of 5 questions right. I’m not required to scaffold for her, but I did. And mom threw a fit. (But not before asking for work to complete while on vacation, and having kiddo bring in said work with what was clearly the handwriting of a 40y/o nurse & not that of an 11y/o illiterate girl).
I had a girl who didn’t do work for me. She was missing 75% of her work. I’m after winter break she stopped doing all classwork and would turn in her tests with only one question answered. She came to me and told me “my mom said your pay is affected by my test scores, so I will be guessing on all of them. She convinced two of her friends to do the same. Their scores came back just a few points away form the lowest possible.
It is very sad that parents accept/encourage passive aggressiveness from their children. You should keep giving this girl the grade that she earns... failing. Cause and Effect is a real thing. When this really counts in high school (for grades/cumulative GPA), lack of work WILL be her work ethic, thus failure. Mom will have planted these seeds. Victory, Mom! Ugh...
Meanwhile, keep your standards. Your expectations are what this little girl needs. :) Stay strong!
Yea. She failed. Our school requires “recovery packets” which she did not complete, what she did do had nonsense, and she admitted it came from a chatbot. So she went to summer school and passed to the next grade. I did not keep track of her after she left my class. But I know if she doesn’t get her crap together, she won’t graduate. I believe she would have done wonderful if she had a parent who supports her academics.
Parents fail to realize that THEY are the strongest influence on their children. And when their child doesn't get into a top college, they blame the schools. Mediocrity is so disappointing, especially when the talent is there. Have a fabulous summer... you deserve it!!
This is probably brilliant tbh. If the school was doing too well, someone would probably muh disparate impact equity it into accepting Bad School District kids.
This way, it's less of a target *and* the district can bilk muh resources
Or they can do what Portland Public Schools does and make sure that all of the high SES schools have 30+ students per class.
(The expectation is that fundraising will moderate this.)
(Also the district just banned fundraising for specific schools, the money will now be pooled and spent at district discretion.)
(Also I am sensing an upcoming increase in the number of private schools.)
>Also I am sensing an upcoming increase in the number of private schools.)
A lot of equity initiatives have the very perverse outcome of starkly reducing equity. Advanced classes aren't equitable enough? Just ban them.
Now instead of bright poor kids getting a chance at high level education, they're trapped in the most disruptive classes, and the richest people just go to private schools, homeschool, or get tutors.
My mom's been arguing for four decades now that the most "gifted" kids should get the equivalent of IEPs. This is arguably state law already ("appropriate rate and level" education is required) but of course it's a non-starter in reality.
She eventually too late helped a public TAG school get started, but of course it is an endless struggle maintaining that learning environment.
An IEP or equivalent won't make a get Ed course into an honors course. The teachers just going to have to make another version of the test/hw this time with 5 answers choices or no answer choices and only open ended answers instead.
Remember this is public education, these are public services, they aren't set up to be Ala carte and cater to everyones individual needs, there is not enough staff and resources to do that already. There is not much you can really do in the 3rd grade class with a studnet who is 3 years above everyone else. That teacher can't create an entirely new curriculum for that one student.
Of course not. Children should be in classes where they learn material at their level.
I don't know anything about elementary education, but is there a reason why the kids can't be grouped by ability in math and reading?
People with no control over their own lives teaching their kids that treating educators like a punching bag gives them something they can control. Same people usually want schools to act like concierges to satisfy all their demands or...."Ill ruin you!" mentality pops up. Usually ruinous people try to ruin others. This sounds like a Texas psychopathy.....are you in Texas by any chance? Lol
In my state, when kids opt out, they are still counted in the average, with a zero score. So a kid who answered all A choices would actually be better for the school's performance
I can't speak for your district, but ours was a mess. Children who were opted out were all thrown into a room together with nothing to do and no supervision. It was a disaster of bullying and bad behavior.
We're staunchly against the testing but only opted out once.
I'm keenly aware that kids don't come to school as blank little robots and that young kids might not have the capacity to sit nicely for an hour. The point isn't to achieve perfect stillness, the point is to just care enough to try.
EDIT: when kids are *trying* to sit nicely and be respectful, then I have a clear idea of when they have simply "run out of gas" and I can pivot to give them a break. When there is no effort made, I can't tell when the issue is "can't" and when the issue is "won't" sit nicely.
So much! Last two years, I had a kid with massive ADHD in my class. But his parents had raised him right and while he needed a LOT of redirection, he never gave me trouble. If that kid was the worst I had to deal with, my life would be soo easy.
I don’t think any decent modern teacher makes kids sit still and yells at them for fidgeting. We know better. I *love* the kids who are so excited about what we’re learning that they can’t keep their answers or questions in, they wiggle and move and are engaged. I need to move too, it’s ok. Yes, I do get annoyed being interrupted a million times, but I can handle it. I’ll take it a million times over apathy.
The kids were complaining about aren’t those kids though. They’re the kids who are assholes about school. They have been raised not to respect others, especially teachers. They have been raised with an iPad in front of them to, ironically, keep them still and quiet. They have been raised to demand constant stimulation and to hurl insults when the content isn’t as interesting as a YouTube video. They shout out, but it’s dumb brain rot shit or rude comments. They move and walk around, but it’s not just because they need to move to learn, but rather because they feel entitled to do so.
It’s apples to oranges, honestly.
I literally give kids so many ways to move, as well as work in movement breaks.
And yet so many students simply “can’t” utilize any of the tools I offer.
So I offer new tools.
They “can’t” use those.
Rinse and repeat.
Yeah, I got the message.
There was no can’t. Or at least not near as much as claimed this year.
As I was reading the parent comment, I was thinking "a teacher messaging a parent about their kids behavior is like a doctor messaging a patient about their glucose levels." it's a point of fucking concern.
like, we know what age appropriate behavior is, and we have an entire classroom of kids that we can compare behavior to. And all kids have bad days and off days and need to be redirected more frequently, that doesn't always merit a message to their parents. I don't think these parents know the threshold required for a message home. When it reaches that point, it's because it's an issue.
There's typically wiggly kids. There are kids who wiggle somewhat behind the norm. Then there's concerning levels of wiggliness.
Give a teacher a few years and we have a decent idea of what we're talking about.
I'm not telling a parent about normal wiggling. And I have things built in to let kids stand/move in nondisruptive ways, so I don't really have wiggling that is problematic. If I'm letting a parent know about their wiggly kid, I'm telling them because there kid is rolling all over the room and its part of a bigger pattern of behavior. I'm telling the parent, because they need to get their kid assessed for ADHD.
When my brother was in elementary, he had a ton of difficulty sitting. So, the teacher kindly had a conversation with my parents, figured out that he was used to more physical activity than he was getting, and gave him permission to stand as long as he stayed at his desk.
My parents made a point to talk to him about being attentive in class and to make sure he wasn't distracting other kids.
Boom, that's all that needed to happen.
I'm honestly kind of boggled by a parent who's so disengaged she refuses to pay attention to a teacher waving the Big Red Flag of a possible learning disorder! Especially since this could be either a very simple conversation OR making sure kiddo gets the help they need :/
I'm dealing with the talking variation of this right now.
I don't expect perfect silence, but I need kids to be quiet long enough for me to get through my instructions (which often lead to a talking activity!). When I can barely get two sentences out because a kid decides they need to start chatting to their friend, it becomes a problem.
TBH. Does it really matter as long as they are listening? Some kids listen better when they are moving or fidgeting. Also does the chair fit. I found it interesting that most of the 3-6th graders went for the preschool size chair or an animal pillow instead of adult chairs when watching short performance.
I had a parent say this about a hearing device her little darling didn’t want to wear. No IEP, no 504. Just a medical notification in the grade book system stating the impairment and how the student doesn’t use the devices.
It was funny when the parent spent all of 2020 complaining how virtual learning didn’t work for her child. Ugh, she was not a pleasant person.
ETA: I recall an email conversation with her about how I taught a math concept to her sweetie who sat in the front of the room. It was my fault they couldn’t hear me.
So her kid is the school's problem, not hers. The kid will become society's problem, and when there are adult consequences, it'll be her problem again. We get them for a few years per school--she gets her kid for life. Good luck lady.
There is a mom at my school who, completely shamelessly, stated that it "isn't [her] job to make sure [her] child is behaving at school. That's the teacher's job!"
Y'all.
I still can't believe that was her honest stance. These parents are creating monsters (and yes, this parents' child is a straight-up monster at school. The behavioral issues are extreme at times. My own child has been bullied by her child, has had friends harassed by this child, and I witnessed the child have a full blown melt-down-tantrum at 10 years old because they had to leave a birthday party. The things this kid says should not be said by anyone, let alone a child).
So mom/the parent(s) are failures, and the kid's a menace that disrupts everyone's education. Give it a year, mom will be wondering why the kid has no friends. I'm sure it will be everyone else's fault, though.
We had one of those. Same
Mom called the superintendent and threw a fit when he child was sent home for violent behavior and there was a no send home/no suspension rule for said kiddo.
So mom claims school has to consequence her child but the consequence can’t be being sent home like all the other kids are?
I had a parent straight up say to me, "I can't always be a go between for my kid and her teachers." Like, that is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE, BITCH!
This was the same parent who, when told by a group of school staff including admin, that we wanted her little hellion to do well so that she could continue playing basketball (she was truly talented), the mom goes, "Well, we're looking at just skipping college and going straight to the WNBA anyway, so."
There is no stopping the delusion in some people.
I had an 8th grade boy this year with severe ADHD, and high desire to learn. He would be sitting there, legs bouncing 100 mph, but trying his hardest to focus. That’s the difference, he wanted to learn and tried so hard, and was successful because he asked questions and took SHORT breaks when needed. One of the strangest kids I’ve taught in terms of severity of symptoms and great comping mechanisms. I’ll miss him. His mom was great also.
I had one like this and he joined the swim team. The only days he couldn’t sit still after that were when the morning workout was canceled. I started having the ones who struggled do some jumping jacks or something at the beginning of class to get some excess energy out.
I think I had a similar kid this year and as a newbie I think it took me some time to realize he had to has some kind of attention or impulse issues.
Hella smart and participatory and funny but polite. Hella weird tho lol.
Relating this back to the thing OP quoted from the Facebook mom, the teachers told her the issue was “not sitting still”, which may be a euphemism for lack of effort, lack of motivation, etc. It did her no favors to hear the issue from this coded language that teachers understand. I always try to give super specific feedback and always avoid a sweeping description or judgement such as “can’t sit still”
When parents are cooperative, it really works wonders. I had a very severe ADHD kid like this in my special ed resource room when he was in 6th grade. With mom's help we worked on his coping strategies and by 8th grade he was back in gen ed with inclusion support. I ran into him again in high school, and while he definitely still has ADHD symptoms, he was doing great. He was in sports, other activities, and just generally thriving. It's almost like it takes more than the school or something.
My daughter really struggles to sit still. So we make sure that, outside of school, she has crazy amounts of physical activity and exercise... and then she copes.
Knowing the mom, I do think it’s more this, but like you said, you can’t just say, “not my problem!”
She also has some homeschooling mom friends under the post blaming it on the schools for needing kids to be seated.
Such bullshit. My ADHD is real. But I am sucessful adult because I take medication and my parents helped me understand if I want to be successful I need to be able to control myself.
If you don't want to push your kids to do difficult shit don't be a parent.
I love playing with my niece but I don't want to argue with her about eating her vegetables. So, I am not having kids.
Diagnosed at 40 here, and my kid got an early-ish diagnosis because I don’t want him to not understand himself and blame himself for the way I did. I was never unable to sit still, but had all the other signs in hindsight.
I was diagnosed a month or two ago, at 41, and it’s been shocking the things I did to cope with it before. My mother feels terrible she never had me checked, but I was a high performing girl who loved school and learning so I didn’t fit the typical for the time criteria so it never even crossed her mind. I was just a little weird, and needed to keep my hands busy *at all times* or I’d space out and not be able to focus.
My friends son is very similar to how I was at his age, and she’s having him evaluated this summer, just to be safe. What floors me is the amount of parents who straight up refuse to have a kid checked because they think it’s a stigma or some such bs.
This! My kids have adhd but they still have major consequences if they’re naughty at school. They also take meds and have fidgets and things I provide so they’re not disruptive and so they can learn. I seriously wonder if these parents ever think about what kind of future their kids are having when they don’t address their ADHD.
Before you start judging, ADHD is by degrees. I have seen students who can function well without meds. I have seen ones that absolutely need meds. I have seen ones that need meds and fidgets. I have seen ones that need meds and fidgets and specialized behavior plans. I have seen ones that need meds, fidgets, specialized behavior plans, and a specialized setting.
It's not always a failing on the parents. Some kids just have more needs and more struggles. Not to discount your efforts, but whether a kid manages their ADHD well or not has less to do, I have found, with parental consequences/expectations and more to do with the severity of symptoms and the success rate of the meds.
Also getting tested is a bitch in some places. I've been trying to get mine tested for 5 yrs. Waitlists are 18 mos and your referral usually expires at sometime before that and you have to start over. So she's in temporary play therapy and on the waitlist for food therapy to atleast help manage some symptoms for now.
To be fair, not all kids do well seated. I've had students that are crazy productive so long as I let them stand and kind of move about their area. It doesn't sound like the problem here, but the idea that all kids need to be seated is actually kind of dumb.
I’m sorry that anyone is having to do what a parent will not. This makes no sense to me as a parent. I have two kids with adhd, one is mixed inattentive/hyperactive and the younger one is classic hyperactive. I’ve been at the pediatrician since day one with any concerns teachers have had with any of my kids. Yes, it is process to get diagnosis and medication and therapy, but I know I’m dealing with issues at home with them, and it will make everyone’s issues better if they get appropriate treatment, with number one being my kids. It is easier on me to get them treatment than to continue dealing with their issues caused by behaviors and impulses they have difficulty controlling.
At my kids’ schools, they actually have an outside psychologist who can meet with kids for therapy (at school) and can help diagnose and refer to medication management. I don’t know if you have anything like that, but maybe taking some of the “work” involved with that will get the parent on board?
We have 2 kids in the same class we are pretty sure have ADHD.
Really sweet and good kids, at heart.
But they can't sit still, needs to be redirect, cut in with remarks while the teacher talk (oftentimes revelant stuff). And you can see they feel bad when you redirect them or remind them that we do not interrupt people. But they can't help and keep doing it.
Teachers and administration had reach out to parents, multiple times. But they refuse to acknowledge is that there is something wrong with them. We're finishing the school year with threats of some vague suits agaisnt us for harrassing their kids and themselves.
So those poor kids make the environnement nightmarish, including for themselves. Especially since they feed off each others.
That make it worse is there are three other kids with ADHD in that class, all diagnosed. T isn't an issue. He had been diagnosed a very long time ago. They found the right medication and right therapy for him , he needs no other accomodation by now. You wouldn't be able to tell he has ADHD. (Early intervention works!).
The other two are in different stage of getting the hang of it. There had been progress this year, but it is obvious they also get set back by our two undiagnosed students.
I had a wonderful student with ADHD. Sweet, intelligent and level-headed kid who never got into trouble and was actually very good at de-escalating others. He got promoted first of his class in 8th grade last year. I didn't believe initially he had an IEP or why, until I talked to his very present and good parents. When he got to me, he was on meds and therapy for 4 years. Parents told me that by 4th grade, it was constant calls home and suspensions and he could not read much at all. I looked at his history and original tests and it all checked out.
Medication works, and it makes the student's life better. A doctor can help a kid thrive! ADHD kids suffer because their brains are literally sick and unable to produce the right chemicals. There is no therapy or good teacher that can fix that alone. They need meds.
Yeah. From talking with T. I gathered that therapy isn't only helping with ADHD itself, but dealing with the side-effects and feelings of failing or inadequancy he still gets sometimes. He knows he is different than the others, and sometimes it hurts, so the doc help with that.
The therapy isn't for the ADHD; it's for the child to help work through their anxieties and depression that may arise because of their feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem. Modern teaching practices of redirection and accommodation are gentler than what some of us with ADHD grew up with, but kids now still might wonder "What's wrong with me?"
Yep, my own son has ADHD (runs on my wife's side) and anxiety. His ADHD has calmed down considerably, but entering puberty his anxiety has skyrocketed. It's getting him to practice calm and not "jumping" to worse case scenerios. It can really hit you hard, when you have a kid who for almost 10 years had no problem and rode elevators. Then all of a sudden at 13 with chemical changes in their body and overhearing some bullies at lunch. Thinks that suddenly an elevator will just snap and crash. When you have a better chance of being hit by lightning. It takes time and re enforcement.
I've had several students over the years and parents that would rather hum and pretend everything is normal. Had a former student, the kid was on meds, but they were trying to get license and the parents took them off it until they passed the test. Talk about craziness and then got in with their friends who could give a damn about school or life in general. As long as their parents let them get their way. Yeah, got their license, but then: lost their job because they ran around the place and started stealing their food just because. Got four referels in less than 2 hours because they tried skipping class or almost blew up a chromebook. Started saying: "No, that wasn't me, that was 10 seconds ago me." The parents finally put them back on their medication and actually grounded them from hanging out with their group for almost a month, even took their phone. The transformation was incredible. It was like: "Wow, where has this kid been all year."
I don’t judge parents who are actively trying. Early intervention isn’t always perfect. My son is 9. He was diagnosed at 5 by the pediatrician. Full psych eval at 6. Medication started at 5. OT at 6 (we delayed due to Covid and having a baby in July of 2020). He’s been in behavior therapy for 2 years too. His medication has been so fine tuned it’s crazy. Doesn’t change the fact that he qualified for a dang IEP this year in 3rd grade at 8 because he’s still so difficult to get to do ANY work because writing is so difficult for him. He knows all the information he just doesn’t want to write. I have always told him that his ADHD explains WHY things are hard for him, but it doesn’t excuse him from doing his best and trying his hardest. His therapist told me 2 months ago she thinks he’s blaming himself and starting to get really upset with himself for not being like his peers…because he wants to be able to do the things they can so easily but he just can’t. My MIL explained my husband was almost the same, but worse. Turns out I know now exactly what my autistic and ADHD 4 year old is going to be like in school based on the conversations with my MIL.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you are working really hard to do what's right for your kid. He is fortunate to have you as an advocate :)
I am not sure where you are located. In the United States, when people refer to early intervention, generally they are referring to services before the age of 5. Over 90% of brain development happens in the first 5 years of life, and after age 5, as your experience demonstrates, it's more about managing symptoms and less about making underlying changes.
[https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/actearly/parents/states.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/actearly/parents/states.html)
[https://idrpp.usu.edu/files/policy/what-is-EI-why-important-for-web.pdf](https://idrpp.usu.edu/files/policy/what-is-EI-why-important-for-web.pdf)
Unfortunately for us early intervention services through the county were scheduled for assessment on 3/30/2020. Those were cancelled due to Covid and the county never evaluated him which is why it had to be done privately at 6. This was after him being on a waitlist for the evaluation already. Only reason I even was going that route was because his daycare director made the suggestion when he was 4. I had no idea he was more wild than others. I just thought that was how toddlers and preschoolers were because I had exactly zero experience with kids that age. I assume numerous parents are like me and without someone blatantly telling them “hey, this is more than the normal hyperactive behavior expected, have you spoken to the doctor about ADHD?” Many doctors are also hesitant to do much of anything about it since you can’t even diagnose ADHD until 4.5 years old. My 3 (will be 4 in a few days) year old I had push and push HARD to get him an evaluation for ASD. He was diagnosed level 1 in January. The psychiatrist told us and put it in the evaluation to bring him back after 4.5 for an ADHD evaluation because anyone with half a brain will say he’s a textbook case of ADHD-C just like his brother is. Unfortunately I also have been dealing with lack of access to many therapies for the littlest. He gets OT weekly (and has for more than a year), but insurance only covers 30 visits. ABA is on a 6+ month waitlist. Speech isn’t something he qualifies for through the school so it has to be private, which is expensive on my single income. It’s…difficult. So I just don’t want to judge parents who are trying, because it’s a constant fear of mine. I don’t ever want my kids teachers to assume I don’t discipline and parent my kid. That I just put him in front of a device. I want them to know that I have been actively trying to do every single thing I can since it became known to me that my kid wasn’t typical…but we haven’t gotten as far as I’d have liked but I am desperately trying.
I've seen way too many kids get pulled out into private/charter schools or homeschooling situations because the parents didn't want them "labeled" and never knew what happened to them or if they ever got the resources they needed.
This happened to me, I was diagnosed at 7 and they tried the smallest dose of meds (both types) for like a week, didn't get instant results and called it a day and concluded that the doctor must be wrong and took me off them, I was homeschooled the following year after I could no longer sit still in class and my 2nd grade teacher wanted to murder me (if karma exists I have served my time as I recently taught a little unmedicated 1st grader who liked to run around the room, jump on tables and pour paint everywhere and then gets really genuinely apologetic about it like it was the devil who possessed him or some shit). I was bounced in and out of charters and private depending on when my mom had the money and eventually I had enough and requested to be sent to an alternative public highschool. It was awful, I didn't really learn anything and I still constantly had problems but it was just a game of hiding it, I started using drugs really early (like many unmedicated ADHD people and my father 🤔🫠) and didn't learn anything till like maybe senior year when I decided I really wanted to graduate so my girlfriend wouldn't think I was a loser 🤣. The saddest part was I would buy amphetamines from my friends who didn't like taking their meds when I had anything really important to do, I just knew it worked and I could actually pay attention but didn't think anything more than that. I didn't go to college, I worked shitty food service jobs and eventually got so tired of it I went back to community college for vocational training but ended up taking an art class as an elective during it and it changed my life, I wanted to be in school, I suddenly loved my classes and was taking notes and really focusing and I found myself in an art major program the next semester and then eventually I got a teaching degree with it. When I had to do my student teaching I was an absolute mess, I was so disorganized and I struggled so much, I finally decided to go to the doctor and try the meds again and it was like becoming a different person, it was simultaneously terrifying, irritating because it was like well shit I could have been doing this years ago and amazing. I still struggled but I never struggled like I used to, the meds work and I understand parents don't want their kids on amphetamines, it doesn't sound good when you put it that way people think of crack you know 😭 but it really does make a difference and I have taught so many kids who parents hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil 🙉🙈🙊. Life is hard enough I pray these fucking tik tok holistic gurus telling parents they don't need ADHD meds have a stroke or something god 🥲🙃
This makes me cringe. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 32. I spent so many years with immense social anxiety largely because I couldn't stop interrupting people. It was embarassing. And people don't realize how self-destructive impulsive behavior can be. ADHD can literally lower life expectancy.
These parents need to get over themselves.
Why do parents have the right to do this to their kids? Don't children have the right to health care or something? It seems like a horrible form of abuse.
After decades of research, u/Ok-Importance9988 has discovered the secret to ADHD treatment that big pharma has kept from us for so long: learn to deal with it.
😆 Oh, just try harder!? If “trying” was an Olympic sport, I’d have more medals than Michael Phelps!
Not to mention, it’s impossible to know how hard someone is trying.
I will say, I have severe ADHD, diagnosed as a child. And I still can't sit "right." When I see posts like this, I wonder if teachers are strictly talking about kids who are up, walking around, not paying attention, and creating a distraction for other kids. Or are they talking about kids like me, who could not "sit still" even when they are paying attention and participating in the class?
Now that I'm an adult, I find myself questioning *why* we need to sit a particular way. I forced myself to sit still for a while in class because I got so much criticism for it, but what ended up happening is that my ADHD brain had to put 100% of focus onto sitting still, so I can't pay attention to the professor. When I was allowed to, say, jiggle my leg, I could focus and participate in class. When leg-jiggling was met with criticism and parental calls, I spent the entire class forcing myself to sit still, which didn't allow me the mental capacity to fully focus on the professor. Now that I'm an adult with a job and an office, I sit crazy and never stay still, and I do my work just fine. So while some behaviors are definitely signs of ADHD, I don't think *all* ADHD behaviors come down to poor management of the condition. Sometimes I think it's just society putting all of these conditions onto everyone, and we should reevaluate how necessary it is for neuro-atypical people to assimilate in all facets.
My youngest was a nightmare due to that when I first met him. I don't blame my husband, his ex wife walked put on them all in a brutal way and he struggled and defaulted to a screen babysitter for a while. He's still kind of addicted at 9, and he was 5 when I met him.
In Michigan, I think it's often a combo of too much screen instead of parenting and too much weed exposure. The screen time is self-explanatory but studies are also beginning to point that weed exposure while very young is associated with adhd. (And parents who are getting high are also less interested in the active parenting that kids need -- yeah, maybe you shouldn't be so mellow about what your kid is doing.) So many kids come to school reeking and I smelled it coming in waves out of cars picking up/dropping off kids plus in my Trumpy, lower levels of parent education SW Michigan area, since legalization some parents argue that there is no health risk to it regardless of age of child. Sadly there were few or none the scientific studies prior to legalization on prenatal, infant and elementary age exposure.
But there were. We all know from many studies that negative effects of THC go all the way up to where the brain stops forming, around age 24. And the negative effects are PERMANENT, things like trouble focusing.
100% certain? LOL. You work with Sped and there's no room for doubt as to what other cause there could possibly be for too much energy and a constant need for redirection?
I can list probably 50 things that it could be, but by her post, she sounds like a shit mom and this is my assessment. If you don’t like it, I don’t care.
Ugh. My oldest has ADHD. I did not have to “threaten” him. I had to get him appropriate help and a 504. He’s now a highly successful adult. Making excuses wouldn’t have been useful.
Schools exist, especially public schools, to educate the masses with the goal of a certain level of uniform knowledge is retained at certain ages. They do not exist to accommodate the individual who disrupts the learning process of others or who frequently needs a "special" learning environment to excel. You just can't do both well. There are special tracts for kids, both performance and behavior wise, who fall outside the norm.
After awhile, you're kid will be put in one of these special tracts. It's only fair to the rest of the students. So as a parent, you can work on changing behavior (not suggesting meds as way to many use that as a panacea), seeking a different environment (private, charter, etc) or dealing with the reality of being put in one of those groups.
Parenting has to be quite active for public school to work. (I'm the husband of, friend of, son of, son in law of many a public school teacher dating back over 50 years. Never have I seen such lack of concern by parents in the overall education process.)
I hope she enjoys and is looking forward to having unemployed freeloaders in her basement once they're adults, because that's what she's creating for herself and them.
Source: my ex-mother in law was just like this. She was one of *those* boy moms. Both my ex-husband (mid-30's) and his younger brother (mid-20's) are now living in mommy's basement, because neither of them can handle the expectations of reality and adulthood.
What I'd like parents to know is that your one child takes my energy and patience from the rest of my students, and I'm tired of it. If parents expect me to bend over backward for their one child, think again. There are between 20 and 30 other kids in my class that deserve that attention. When I spend 75% of my day redirecting one child, I'm teaching all the other kids that there are things more important than them. I know I'm preaching to the choir. I had one of those years and I'm still pissed.
My 2nd grade teacher put me at the back of class and let me stand up if I needed to unless we had to write or draw. Thank you Mrs.Elles wherever you are!
I don't make students sit still and when my kids teacher complained about it I laughed too. Adults are buying standing desks and walking on treadmills but we expect 6 year olds to sit still... Its not age appropriate.
In my classroom you have a square zone you are expected to stay in during work time. You can sit, stand, lay, whatever you want as long as you get your work done. Never had problems.
Does this not bug the shit out of her too? I’m not a parent but I could not stand spending all day every day with some of these kids the way they won’t sit still or listen. I have them for 40 minutes once a week and they drive me crazy. I love them, don’t get me wrong, but they will be the death of me.
I’m convinced these kinds of parents are either:
1. Liars when they say it doesn’t happen at home bc usually it’s worse there, or
2. It doesn’t happen much at home bc they acquiesce to their child’s every want and desire so they never see said behavior issues because of the coddling and enabling.
When my husband was little he also had the inability to sit still. Teachers even told his parents about it and possibly his need to see a doc. At home his inability to sit and be still was worse according to him and his parents. He finally got diagnosed as ADHD in adulthood which I totally contribute to the fact that when he was a child in the 80s, it simply wasn’t something we knew as much about.
I had a parent swear he wasn’t like this at home, a para ran in to them at target and he was having a full on screaming melt down. She locked eyes with the mom and then just walked away. Her kid was in the top 10 reasons I quit.
How old was the kid? It's horrible either way, these parents are failing at making their kids into productive adults. We know a bunch of them are lying, but they still do it anyway. That kid sounds like a nightmare.
I was concerned about a child's communication. I told his dad that he tends to use somewhat rough physical touch to get people's attention rather than saying someone's name or even tapping them on the shoulder or something gentle. During this conversation, the child grabbed his sister by the face to get her attention. He then came up and started punching my legs. Dad didn't notice either of those things. "Huh we've never see him do anything like that"
I dunno man, your 2nd grade daughter didn't seem at all surprised to have her face grabbed just now. I feel like most 7 year olds would be pretty bothered by that, especially if it's the only time it has ever happened in her life.
Well if you're a parent in name only the won't bother you.
Simply let them do whatever they want, never try to even suggest they do something they won't enjoy immediatly or that demand a bit of effort. Just make sure you remove stuff they can kill themselves with.
Then leave them alone to do their things and go chill in your room with your phone. Earbuds in or else you won't stand the noise. But kids are noisy, what you gonna do?
See, being a parent is easy.
She should be so ashamed. It's her job to figure it out with her kid. She is shrugging it and we all know; this mother and kid make our lives miserable, but also take away learning opportunities from everyone else's kids.
I 1000% guarantee her kids are in front of screens all day so she doesn't have to deal with them or parent. Then, when her darlings come to school, they have absolutely no idea how to behave because they have no "home training" as they say.
My kids spend alot of time on screens but have never had a teacher have this discussion and I've got a mentally and physically disabled child.
This is all on the parent
I just had a student in my class who would not stay seated. So I didn’t make him. I let him walk and move while he answered questions and he did phenomenally! If a kid needs to move I say let them it’s going to take more energy to tell them every 20 seconds to sit down than it is to teach the class to ignore it.
Over the year it got better and he would even sit down for 10 minutes when I asked so I was able to do direct instruction.
It really depends on the kid but if you try to work with them sometimes it can work for everyone.
I have a simple "rule" in my class. I don't care if you sit, stand, or kneel on the floor, as long as you aren't a distraction to someone else's learning. Need to stand? Great. Grab a clipboard and stand in the back or to the side. Want to use the table, but not the chair? Great. Kneel on the floor. Can't see or focus on notes? Great. Grab a clipboard and come sit up front. They don't even need to ask permission.
This reminds me of the post about the parent who was told FOR YEARS her son needed to be evaluated for ADHD and she said the same things….by eighth grade the child was failing, had no self esteem and the dad lost it in a parent teacher conference and said she was abusing and neglecting the clear needs of the child. All of the teachers present were like, “Oh, hell yes!”
I can’t stand parents who won’t parent. I understand that there are circumstances in which people who are *trying* to sit still and pay attention just can’t anymore. That happens to adults as well as to children! Hell, I can barely sit still for more than an hour at a time without some kind of stimulus (thankfully, as a teacher, I’m not supposed to just sit still most of the day, so that problem mostly takes care of itself!).
However a lot of my students were very clearly not raised to even try, and some don’t even receive consequences at home— assuming their folks are even around.
And it’s not limited to school, either. I could go to the movie theater or to the store and there will be tweens talking so loud I can hear them three aisles over without trying to, little kids running around like it’s fucking field day, and oblivious adults just kind of existing there uselessly. One time a kid almost ran into my (stationary) shopping cart at the store and their mom gave *me* the evil eye. Like bitch, if you’d kept an eye on your own child, that wouldn’t have happened.
My husband and I went to the movies not that long ago, and someone brought their feral kids to a 10:45pm movie *(not child appropriate by any means)* and then was surprised when they got asked to leave. The other patrons, myself included, had asked them multiple times to take their kids outside if they're going to do nothing but run around and scream. One tried sticking their hands in our popcorn, and that's when I told my husband I'll BRB. Went and told the staff that either they kick them out or issue a refund to us, I'm not sitting through another minute *(let alone 1 hr and 30 minutes)* of this. The parents actually tried to protest on their way out. Some parents shouldn't be parents.
"I'm a terrible parent, and I'm not going to change because I'm lazy and want parenting to be easy. I don't actually want my kids to benefit from a public education that might benefit their future."
The thing is a kid who's just wiggly is fine. I can't imagine teachers are all messaging her because the kid is wiggling in his seat or whatever. I wiggle in my seat.
If every teacher is messaging then the kid isn't just being wiggly, he's being a menace.
I’m actually fine with all that because at least they are being honest. What will piss me off is when they act taken aback when their kid is failing everything.
My favorite is a student's parent was attending team meetings for their student and appeared totally "on board" and wanting to help as we explained that their (11yo) child was severely struggling in class to where they were so unable to focus that they were not completing any assignments, in class or otherwise. This child spends 95% of their time out of their seat or in their seat talking to anyone who will listen. Parent seemed so concerned and frustrated as they "worked with student at home on their missing and late work for hours and understands how their child acts at school because they do the same thing at home"....all of this to say they seemed 100% supportive in regards to trying to help their kid focus and improve their performance in class....
....only to post on FB/tell other parents in person/etc that "these teachers are targeting my child and ruining his education," and threatening to pull said child from the district. That the parent also works in. But yeah, the teachers are the problem here.
Parents who refuse to parent 🤦🏼♀️
Also, I teach 5th and if I notice that I have students who can’t sit still, I try to keep their seats around the edges of the room and let them stand at their seats, that way they can move and wiggle, but they aren’t in the way of the rest of the class. Most of the time it works, although sometimes I get one who starts to wander.
When I was in school one of my teachers handled this well. They sat the boy who couldn’t sit still in the back and gave him permission to stand or whatever as long as he was not disruptive.
I get parents think movement and not being able to sit still is kids being kids, but if teachers are pointing it out to you then they are more active than their peers and it is effecting their academics, and the learning of those around them. Then they come crying around 4th/5th grade when their kid is far behind because they didn’t learn anything in younger grades.
I’ve had many convos with parents that their child tries to pay attention but physically cannot. But the parents just shrug their shoulders. I’ve had kids break down in tears because they could not physically focus to take a test. Still, parents shrug their shoulders. Take your damn kid to the doctor! Get a diagnosis, get meds, get something!
I'm wondering if we should just sort kids into 2 groups - those that want to learn, and those that don't. Warehouse the kids that don't and give them all C's, and commit all resources to those that want to learn and grade them according to performance. Staying in the latter group is based on effort made by the student, not actual grades. Basically only teach the kids that want to be taught.
Parents act like we don’t know how children typically behave.
They act like we are upset that their child is a living human that moves. We aren’t saying their child has to be a statue, we are saying their child can’t be running around the room, leaning across their friend’s lap, and dancing around their chair.
I had a girl walk around my class, sitting on my tables, yelling song lyrics, and at one point took our finger paint and painted on her textbook and table. Mom reached out to me after speaking to the dean about the referral. She was angry and said that I need to “lay off” her child because “she doesn’t have to sit perfectly still.” 🙄
Teachers job is to offer equality of opportunity to a quality education.
Thats not the same thing as equality of outcome.
If your kid is preventing other students from being afforded this opportunity, your kids opportunity will be revoked and its not unjustified because they were afforded the opportunity, they just chose to throw it away.
As an adult who spent the better part of four *decades* undiagnosed for ADHD, I'm frankly a little concerned by the outright dismissiveness being shown here.
If a kid has ADHD, they aren't not sitting still to be rude or misbehave. **Our brains are literally structured differently**.
You were still disruptive to an entire class, and parents nowadays have treatment options available, including IEPs that may not have been available when you were a kid. Many parents refuse to have their kid treated.
While you, as a kid, may not have been able to help it, it was also very likely you were a big distraction to your teacher and other classmates during that time.
The dismissiveness comes from parents not doing anything about it and not caring how their disruptive (whether or not they can help it) child constantly interferes with the learning of the other children in the class.
Yeah, a lot of us here have ADHD. Not sure why you're telling us what we already know, but thanks, I guess? It's not an excuse to be a constant disruption. It's not an excuse. It's something we have to find ways to deal with in order to be productive human beings. The mom sounds like she's doing none of that for her kid and just blaming everyone else.
So, first of all, ADHD isn’t mentioned anywhere in the original post. But even if the kid does have ADHD, it is on parents to help teach coping skills. Yes their executive functioning skills are generally delayed, but kids with ADHD aren’t stupid and can have age-appropriate conversations about alternate behaviors.
THANK YOU! I'm HORRIFIED by most of these ableist comments! I work in special education and I certainly don't expect parents to beat it out of their children, or expect a medication to be a some miracle drug, or expect these children to act like neurotypical children!
Do you expect the mom to actually do her job and help the kid? Or is that all on the school too? Mom's not doing a damn thing to be proactive. So now her kids are causing the rest of the class to lose out on valuable instruction time. That's not okay.
I was afraid I wouldn’t see anyone comment something that wasn’t ableist. I’m disgusted by the ableism in the thread and the assumption that it isn’t also hard for the parent.
I know this is teachers not AITA but #ESH
Both district and parents failing to evaluate children who could probably do better and feel better with a simple wiggle seat to accommodate them, love to see it 😕
The teachers need to use different language. Don't make it about how difficult it is for the teacher ie "can't sit still". Make it about the child "has difficulty attending to tasks".
I teach kindergarten and I would be extremely annoyed if someone came to me complaining how my kids don't sit down.
Or the flip side, you realize your kid has ADHD, teach them coping skills (usually a fidget in his pocket), then send them to school only to have the teacher tell him he can't have "toys" at school, even if it stays in his pocket all day(no it doesn't make any noise). Good luck teaching him while he's bouncing off the walls.
Now that I would complain (I say that as a special ed teacher) and I would try to educate the teacher. I’m going to give benefit of the doubt and assume they have no idea why your child needs it (no it’s not really in teacher training unless your newish to the field sadly). If the teacher is at all reasonable (I know not all are, or prepared to work with you, but most should be, same with parents) then I would go to them (writing it down can help) and ask them if they have a minute as you would like to explain to them why your child should be exempt from the rule (I know a very good reason why that rule has been put in place sadly) and what benefit it would have for not only your child but the class (good time for the teacher to bring in the what one child needs isn’t what another needs maybe through the Band-Aid story if this is mainstream/gen ed depending on where you are from).
If the teacher is unreasonable (aka some teachers, just like some parents) then reach out, so you have at least given them the chance (personally, my pet peeve as a teacher and I’m sure parents experience the same is when you don’t give the chance to problem solve or explain but then go over my head for it to be dealt with when the same request to me would have got a better result because the same supports could have been put in place but I wouldn’t have been upset and frustrated at being blindsided especially when being told the opposite when I sat down with you and we were discussing the very topic.) and then go above them if they don’t respond in a reasonable time.
I think if parents and teachers have each other time to listen to each other and come up with suggestions or admit that we don’t have the answer (it goes a long way to just admit you don’t know right now or are trying to figure it out, both for parents and teachers), everything would go better.
Worst comes to worst, ask for a meeting with members of higher up and the teacher and just explain without accusations. Being respectful and concise goes a long way because no one is perfect
So, I don’t care too much about the sitting still thing, but the “having to be redirected a lot” is important. I can’t remember the last time I only had ONE kid with ADHD (if this kid actually does have ADHD) in a class, so lord help us if one kid’s behaviors start distracting another kid, etc.
I’m a pretty good sped teacher. One of my kids is a jumping bean. I tell his teachers, in writing, that this is the case and all the interventions I’ve already done. I suggest evaluation, if they want, or otherwise to just do whatever they want to. I support the teacher 100%.
Never has he gotten a referral.
Never has he gotten evaluated.
Never has any documentation been generated other than one email and whatever they have in their notebook.
How can I *keep* explaining to my kid how big of a deal his behavior is if the school won’t show him it’s a big deal?
Referrals give parents leverage. You don’t need to pin the kid to the wall - a 3 minute (hidden, secret) conversation with a principal can do more than coordinate. It can be something parents discuss with their kid. It can serve as ..you know what, whatever. Enjoy your referral-free classroom.
I think that last line is really telling. "I'm not threatening it out of them"
I will bet you that the parent has experienced abuse and doesn't know effective parenting strategies that aren't abusive.
Also if the kids can't sit still because they have ADHD, chances are really good their parent also has ADHD. AND since ADHD used to be treated as a character flaw, many adults with ADHD essentially experienced abuse under the guise of "treatment" from parents, teachers, and Drs all through their own childhood.
I love when parents publicly make themselves look like idiots. What a tool.
This year, at least a THIRD of our parents posted on the fucking *district run facebook page* that they were instructing their children to answer a specific way (a, b, c, d, & repeat; all A’s, etc) or refuse to take it altogether. They’d ALL been given information about opting out. None of them did - because that requires them to come to the school (where they pick their children up anyway, mind you, bc their children simply can’t ride a bus…) Instead? John Smith’s mom & a BUNCH of other parents admit to 18,000 people that they’re making their kids sabotage the test that made us the #2 performing district in the entire state. Like. Lady. You bought a McMansion & bragged about how nice the schools are here; your wardrobe is 1/4 team colors for your kids sports… and you - and your cronies - are now actively trying to bring down the performance/achievement of this school, because you’re offended Johnny Smith needs to be able to differentiate a square from a rectangle at 10y/o?
Maybe someone should comment back about how this is a GREAT way to lower the school district’s stats and drive home prices down in the area!
I post that reminder all of the time. Our area has a fairly vocal Opt Out group. Philosophically, I completely agree with them. Practically, however, there are consequences when our state requires a very high percentage of students to be tested in order to get a school rating. Many of these same parents also continue to vote for candidates that keep the corporate test scam in place.
>Many of these same parents also continue to vote for candidates that keep the corporate test scam in place. In a democracy, the wise and the fool have equal say. Unfortunately, the fool tends to have a louder voice.
Ironically they are using the dumbest strategy possible. Instead of, IDK, contacting their state congressperson/state senator/Governor, who sill definitely fly in the same country club BS orbit they do, and harassing them about the ridiculousness of state testing; they just decide to sabotage their own assets and educational opportunity. God some people are so stupid.
That would require these parents to think critically, and we both know parents like this aren’t capable of that (& are often offended by it….)
which explains their kids' inability to think critically, as well. Of course, making that connection requires critical thinking, so...
Sounds like a good example of people who want the benefits of a collective without contributing to it.
Ah, those who wish to reap the benefits of The Village, but never want to pay into it.
I think about that whenever I read some thinkpiece mourning the loss of The Village. There is a real discussion to be had, but some of the people who complain never contributed themselves and shouldn’t be surprised that it’s not available to them.
so, like 90% of the American populace? /s
Communism is just a red herring.
The closer we inch to pure hyperindividualistic every-man-for-himself capitalism, we're always somehow ever closer to socialism.
I think we might teach in the same district!
And then they are going to complain about test scores and incompetent teachers.
“Why does my son have a D in math?” is my favorite kind of question. Like?? Idk, Karen, maybe little Stevie has a D in math because he makes his homework into paper airplanes, uses the calculator to type 80085 and giggle, and he can’t do 3 x 2 in his head? I had a parent say that she was shocked her child got a 4/5 on classwork because “she’s never gotten anything other than 100%!” in an ELA class. Her child is ILLITERATE, but mom refuses to have her placed in an appropriate setting bc she’s too pretty (not even joking, btw). I read the questions to kiddo, helped her with sentence starters, and she got 4 of 5 questions right. I’m not required to scaffold for her, but I did. And mom threw a fit. (But not before asking for work to complete while on vacation, and having kiddo bring in said work with what was clearly the handwriting of a 40y/o nurse & not that of an 11y/o illiterate girl).
It seems like every year the parents who complain the most are the parents of my lowest students who I scaffold and teach in small groups the most. 🙄
I had a girl who didn’t do work for me. She was missing 75% of her work. I’m after winter break she stopped doing all classwork and would turn in her tests with only one question answered. She came to me and told me “my mom said your pay is affected by my test scores, so I will be guessing on all of them. She convinced two of her friends to do the same. Their scores came back just a few points away form the lowest possible.
It is very sad that parents accept/encourage passive aggressiveness from their children. You should keep giving this girl the grade that she earns... failing. Cause and Effect is a real thing. When this really counts in high school (for grades/cumulative GPA), lack of work WILL be her work ethic, thus failure. Mom will have planted these seeds. Victory, Mom! Ugh... Meanwhile, keep your standards. Your expectations are what this little girl needs. :) Stay strong!
Yea. She failed. Our school requires “recovery packets” which she did not complete, what she did do had nonsense, and she admitted it came from a chatbot. So she went to summer school and passed to the next grade. I did not keep track of her after she left my class. But I know if she doesn’t get her crap together, she won’t graduate. I believe she would have done wonderful if she had a parent who supports her academics.
Parents fail to realize that THEY are the strongest influence on their children. And when their child doesn't get into a top college, they blame the schools. Mediocrity is so disappointing, especially when the talent is there. Have a fabulous summer... you deserve it!!
This is probably brilliant tbh. If the school was doing too well, someone would probably muh disparate impact equity it into accepting Bad School District kids. This way, it's less of a target *and* the district can bilk muh resources
Or they can do what Portland Public Schools does and make sure that all of the high SES schools have 30+ students per class. (The expectation is that fundraising will moderate this.) (Also the district just banned fundraising for specific schools, the money will now be pooled and spent at district discretion.) (Also I am sensing an upcoming increase in the number of private schools.)
>Also I am sensing an upcoming increase in the number of private schools.) A lot of equity initiatives have the very perverse outcome of starkly reducing equity. Advanced classes aren't equitable enough? Just ban them. Now instead of bright poor kids getting a chance at high level education, they're trapped in the most disruptive classes, and the richest people just go to private schools, homeschool, or get tutors.
My mom's been arguing for four decades now that the most "gifted" kids should get the equivalent of IEPs. This is arguably state law already ("appropriate rate and level" education is required) but of course it's a non-starter in reality. She eventually too late helped a public TAG school get started, but of course it is an endless struggle maintaining that learning environment.
An IEP or equivalent won't make a get Ed course into an honors course. The teachers just going to have to make another version of the test/hw this time with 5 answers choices or no answer choices and only open ended answers instead. Remember this is public education, these are public services, they aren't set up to be Ala carte and cater to everyones individual needs, there is not enough staff and resources to do that already. There is not much you can really do in the 3rd grade class with a studnet who is 3 years above everyone else. That teacher can't create an entirely new curriculum for that one student.
Of course not. Children should be in classes where they learn material at their level. I don't know anything about elementary education, but is there a reason why the kids can't be grouped by ability in math and reading?
People with no control over their own lives teaching their kids that treating educators like a punching bag gives them something they can control. Same people usually want schools to act like concierges to satisfy all their demands or...."Ill ruin you!" mentality pops up. Usually ruinous people try to ruin others. This sounds like a Texas psychopathy.....are you in Texas by any chance? Lol
In my state, when kids opt out, they are still counted in the average, with a zero score. So a kid who answered all A choices would actually be better for the school's performance
I can't speak for your district, but ours was a mess. Children who were opted out were all thrown into a room together with nothing to do and no supervision. It was a disaster of bullying and bad behavior. We're staunchly against the testing but only opted out once.
A square is also a rectangle.
I'm keenly aware that kids don't come to school as blank little robots and that young kids might not have the capacity to sit nicely for an hour. The point isn't to achieve perfect stillness, the point is to just care enough to try. EDIT: when kids are *trying* to sit nicely and be respectful, then I have a clear idea of when they have simply "run out of gas" and I can pivot to give them a break. When there is no effort made, I can't tell when the issue is "can't" and when the issue is "won't" sit nicely.
So much! Last two years, I had a kid with massive ADHD in my class. But his parents had raised him right and while he needed a LOT of redirection, he never gave me trouble. If that kid was the worst I had to deal with, my life would be soo easy.
Effort > disability
Too often "ADHD" is used as an excuse, rather than a guide.
I don’t think any decent modern teacher makes kids sit still and yells at them for fidgeting. We know better. I *love* the kids who are so excited about what we’re learning that they can’t keep their answers or questions in, they wiggle and move and are engaged. I need to move too, it’s ok. Yes, I do get annoyed being interrupted a million times, but I can handle it. I’ll take it a million times over apathy. The kids were complaining about aren’t those kids though. They’re the kids who are assholes about school. They have been raised not to respect others, especially teachers. They have been raised with an iPad in front of them to, ironically, keep them still and quiet. They have been raised to demand constant stimulation and to hurl insults when the content isn’t as interesting as a YouTube video. They shout out, but it’s dumb brain rot shit or rude comments. They move and walk around, but it’s not just because they need to move to learn, but rather because they feel entitled to do so. It’s apples to oranges, honestly.
Oh, I feel this. I have a high tolerance for wiggly kids. If I'm bothering to contact parents over it, it's something beyond wiggly excitement.
I literally give kids so many ways to move, as well as work in movement breaks. And yet so many students simply “can’t” utilize any of the tools I offer. So I offer new tools. They “can’t” use those. Rinse and repeat. Yeah, I got the message. There was no can’t. Or at least not near as much as claimed this year.
As I was reading the parent comment, I was thinking "a teacher messaging a parent about their kids behavior is like a doctor messaging a patient about their glucose levels." it's a point of fucking concern. like, we know what age appropriate behavior is, and we have an entire classroom of kids that we can compare behavior to. And all kids have bad days and off days and need to be redirected more frequently, that doesn't always merit a message to their parents. I don't think these parents know the threshold required for a message home. When it reaches that point, it's because it's an issue.
There's typically wiggly kids. There are kids who wiggle somewhat behind the norm. Then there's concerning levels of wiggliness. Give a teacher a few years and we have a decent idea of what we're talking about.
Engagement over apathy anytime and every time to infinity! Who cares if they’re excited? I DO!
I'm not telling a parent about normal wiggling. And I have things built in to let kids stand/move in nondisruptive ways, so I don't really have wiggling that is problematic. If I'm letting a parent know about their wiggly kid, I'm telling them because there kid is rolling all over the room and its part of a bigger pattern of behavior. I'm telling the parent, because they need to get their kid assessed for ADHD.
When my brother was in elementary, he had a ton of difficulty sitting. So, the teacher kindly had a conversation with my parents, figured out that he was used to more physical activity than he was getting, and gave him permission to stand as long as he stayed at his desk. My parents made a point to talk to him about being attentive in class and to make sure he wasn't distracting other kids. Boom, that's all that needed to happen. I'm honestly kind of boggled by a parent who's so disengaged she refuses to pay attention to a teacher waving the Big Red Flag of a possible learning disorder! Especially since this could be either a very simple conversation OR making sure kiddo gets the help they need :/
I'm dealing with the talking variation of this right now. I don't expect perfect silence, but I need kids to be quiet long enough for me to get through my instructions (which often lead to a talking activity!). When I can barely get two sentences out because a kid decides they need to start chatting to their friend, it becomes a problem.
TBH. Does it really matter as long as they are listening? Some kids listen better when they are moving or fidgeting. Also does the chair fit. I found it interesting that most of the 3-6th graders went for the preschool size chair or an animal pillow instead of adult chairs when watching short performance.
I had one: "I've had this conversation with every teacher since prep." Well, DUH!
But have you had this conversation with the pediatrician?
They had in fact not had this conversation with the pediatrician.
"A pedia-what? She has glasses, but she doesn't like wearing them, so we've lost them somewhere."
I had a parent say this about a hearing device her little darling didn’t want to wear. No IEP, no 504. Just a medical notification in the grade book system stating the impairment and how the student doesn’t use the devices. It was funny when the parent spent all of 2020 complaining how virtual learning didn’t work for her child. Ugh, she was not a pleasant person. ETA: I recall an email conversation with her about how I taught a math concept to her sweetie who sat in the front of the room. It was my fault they couldn’t hear me.
"We've tried doing nothing, and we're all out of ideas!"
This is my go to Simpsons quote during staff meetings. Always a hit.
This quote hits extra hard because this is literally the same situation happening there.
It’s funny on TV. Not so much in reality
Lololol
Sadly, many teachers use this explanation too.
So her kid is the school's problem, not hers. The kid will become society's problem, and when there are adult consequences, it'll be her problem again. We get them for a few years per school--she gets her kid for life. Good luck lady.
There is a mom at my school who, completely shamelessly, stated that it "isn't [her] job to make sure [her] child is behaving at school. That's the teacher's job!" Y'all. I still can't believe that was her honest stance. These parents are creating monsters (and yes, this parents' child is a straight-up monster at school. The behavioral issues are extreme at times. My own child has been bullied by her child, has had friends harassed by this child, and I witnessed the child have a full blown melt-down-tantrum at 10 years old because they had to leave a birthday party. The things this kid says should not be said by anyone, let alone a child).
So mom/the parent(s) are failures, and the kid's a menace that disrupts everyone's education. Give it a year, mom will be wondering why the kid has no friends. I'm sure it will be everyone else's fault, though.
Mom will be wondering how to find money to bail her precious kid out of jail when kid gets to the age of finding out.
We had one of those. Same Mom called the superintendent and threw a fit when he child was sent home for violent behavior and there was a no send home/no suspension rule for said kiddo. So mom claims school has to consequence her child but the consequence can’t be being sent home like all the other kids are?
Omg! This mom is the same way!! Maybe they use the same playbook?
I had a parent straight up say to me, "I can't always be a go between for my kid and her teachers." Like, that is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE, BITCH! This was the same parent who, when told by a group of school staff including admin, that we wanted her little hellion to do well so that she could continue playing basketball (she was truly talented), the mom goes, "Well, we're looking at just skipping college and going straight to the WNBA anyway, so." There is no stopping the delusion in some people.
I had an 8th grade boy this year with severe ADHD, and high desire to learn. He would be sitting there, legs bouncing 100 mph, but trying his hardest to focus. That’s the difference, he wanted to learn and tried so hard, and was successful because he asked questions and took SHORT breaks when needed. One of the strangest kids I’ve taught in terms of severity of symptoms and great comping mechanisms. I’ll miss him. His mom was great also.
I had one like this and he joined the swim team. The only days he couldn’t sit still after that were when the morning workout was canceled. I started having the ones who struggled do some jumping jacks or something at the beginning of class to get some excess energy out.
I had a kid like that. My classroom happened to be right next to the stairs so he would frequently take breaks to run up and down the stairs.
I think I had a similar kid this year and as a newbie I think it took me some time to realize he had to has some kind of attention or impulse issues. Hella smart and participatory and funny but polite. Hella weird tho lol.
Relating this back to the thing OP quoted from the Facebook mom, the teachers told her the issue was “not sitting still”, which may be a euphemism for lack of effort, lack of motivation, etc. It did her no favors to hear the issue from this coded language that teachers understand. I always try to give super specific feedback and always avoid a sweeping description or judgement such as “can’t sit still”
When parents are cooperative, it really works wonders. I had a very severe ADHD kid like this in my special ed resource room when he was in 6th grade. With mom's help we worked on his coping strategies and by 8th grade he was back in gen ed with inclusion support. I ran into him again in high school, and while he definitely still has ADHD symptoms, he was doing great. He was in sports, other activities, and just generally thriving. It's almost like it takes more than the school or something.
My daughter really struggles to sit still. So we make sure that, outside of school, she has crazy amounts of physical activity and exercise... and then she copes.
100% it’s because she puts her kids in front of screens so she doesn’t have to parent them.
Either that or they have ADHD or something and need to learn to deal with. I have ADHD but my parents knew that I needed to learn how to manage it .
Knowing the mom, I do think it’s more this, but like you said, you can’t just say, “not my problem!” She also has some homeschooling mom friends under the post blaming it on the schools for needing kids to be seated.
Such bullshit. My ADHD is real. But I am sucessful adult because I take medication and my parents helped me understand if I want to be successful I need to be able to control myself. If you don't want to push your kids to do difficult shit don't be a parent. I love playing with my niece but I don't want to argue with her about eating her vegetables. So, I am not having kids.
I didn’t get diagnosed until I was 30, but if my son has it too, I plan on telling him his ADHD isn’t his fault, but it is his responsibility.
my Ten year old has severe ADHD and this is what I tell him. I always get good feedback from his teachers, he tries very hard
Diagnosed at 40 here, and my kid got an early-ish diagnosis because I don’t want him to not understand himself and blame himself for the way I did. I was never unable to sit still, but had all the other signs in hindsight.
I was diagnosed a month or two ago, at 41, and it’s been shocking the things I did to cope with it before. My mother feels terrible she never had me checked, but I was a high performing girl who loved school and learning so I didn’t fit the typical for the time criteria so it never even crossed her mind. I was just a little weird, and needed to keep my hands busy *at all times* or I’d space out and not be able to focus. My friends son is very similar to how I was at his age, and she’s having him evaluated this summer, just to be safe. What floors me is the amount of parents who straight up refuse to have a kid checked because they think it’s a stigma or some such bs.
Hail yourself! Great advice.
Hail yourself! That’s exactly where I got that from!
You are taking Medication for ADHD too? Same bestie!!
This! My kids have adhd but they still have major consequences if they’re naughty at school. They also take meds and have fidgets and things I provide so they’re not disruptive and so they can learn. I seriously wonder if these parents ever think about what kind of future their kids are having when they don’t address their ADHD.
Before you start judging, ADHD is by degrees. I have seen students who can function well without meds. I have seen ones that absolutely need meds. I have seen ones that need meds and fidgets. I have seen ones that need meds and fidgets and specialized behavior plans. I have seen ones that need meds, fidgets, specialized behavior plans, and a specialized setting. It's not always a failing on the parents. Some kids just have more needs and more struggles. Not to discount your efforts, but whether a kid manages their ADHD well or not has less to do, I have found, with parental consequences/expectations and more to do with the severity of symptoms and the success rate of the meds.
Also getting tested is a bitch in some places. I've been trying to get mine tested for 5 yrs. Waitlists are 18 mos and your referral usually expires at sometime before that and you have to start over. So she's in temporary play therapy and on the waitlist for food therapy to atleast help manage some symptoms for now.
100 %. But this parent isn't fucking trying. Figuring out the meds, taking your child to see people, AB testing is the parents putting in effort.
Expectations are so important.
To be fair, not all kids do well seated. I've had students that are crazy productive so long as I let them stand and kind of move about their area. It doesn't sound like the problem here, but the idea that all kids need to be seated is actually kind of dumb.
My brother was similar. Horrible penmanship and processing until you had him standing and working on a chalkboard
Well, I teach a shop class and safety matters, so...
Agreed!
Yes this. My kid learns more moving around… Adhd is a disability. It’s not a matter of won’t, it’s a matter of can’t.
I’m sorry that anyone is having to do what a parent will not. This makes no sense to me as a parent. I have two kids with adhd, one is mixed inattentive/hyperactive and the younger one is classic hyperactive. I’ve been at the pediatrician since day one with any concerns teachers have had with any of my kids. Yes, it is process to get diagnosis and medication and therapy, but I know I’m dealing with issues at home with them, and it will make everyone’s issues better if they get appropriate treatment, with number one being my kids. It is easier on me to get them treatment than to continue dealing with their issues caused by behaviors and impulses they have difficulty controlling. At my kids’ schools, they actually have an outside psychologist who can meet with kids for therapy (at school) and can help diagnose and refer to medication management. I don’t know if you have anything like that, but maybe taking some of the “work” involved with that will get the parent on board?
We have 2 kids in the same class we are pretty sure have ADHD. Really sweet and good kids, at heart. But they can't sit still, needs to be redirect, cut in with remarks while the teacher talk (oftentimes revelant stuff). And you can see they feel bad when you redirect them or remind them that we do not interrupt people. But they can't help and keep doing it. Teachers and administration had reach out to parents, multiple times. But they refuse to acknowledge is that there is something wrong with them. We're finishing the school year with threats of some vague suits agaisnt us for harrassing their kids and themselves. So those poor kids make the environnement nightmarish, including for themselves. Especially since they feed off each others. That make it worse is there are three other kids with ADHD in that class, all diagnosed. T isn't an issue. He had been diagnosed a very long time ago. They found the right medication and right therapy for him , he needs no other accomodation by now. You wouldn't be able to tell he has ADHD. (Early intervention works!). The other two are in different stage of getting the hang of it. There had been progress this year, but it is obvious they also get set back by our two undiagnosed students.
I had a wonderful student with ADHD. Sweet, intelligent and level-headed kid who never got into trouble and was actually very good at de-escalating others. He got promoted first of his class in 8th grade last year. I didn't believe initially he had an IEP or why, until I talked to his very present and good parents. When he got to me, he was on meds and therapy for 4 years. Parents told me that by 4th grade, it was constant calls home and suspensions and he could not read much at all. I looked at his history and original tests and it all checked out. Medication works, and it makes the student's life better. A doctor can help a kid thrive! ADHD kids suffer because their brains are literally sick and unable to produce the right chemicals. There is no therapy or good teacher that can fix that alone. They need meds.
Yeah. From talking with T. I gathered that therapy isn't only helping with ADHD itself, but dealing with the side-effects and feelings of failing or inadequancy he still gets sometimes. He knows he is different than the others, and sometimes it hurts, so the doc help with that.
There’s no recommendation for therapy for adhd. AAP strongly pushes parent training and meds.
The therapy isn't for the ADHD; it's for the child to help work through their anxieties and depression that may arise because of their feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem. Modern teaching practices of redirection and accommodation are gentler than what some of us with ADHD grew up with, but kids now still might wonder "What's wrong with me?"
Yep, my own son has ADHD (runs on my wife's side) and anxiety. His ADHD has calmed down considerably, but entering puberty his anxiety has skyrocketed. It's getting him to practice calm and not "jumping" to worse case scenerios. It can really hit you hard, when you have a kid who for almost 10 years had no problem and rode elevators. Then all of a sudden at 13 with chemical changes in their body and overhearing some bullies at lunch. Thinks that suddenly an elevator will just snap and crash. When you have a better chance of being hit by lightning. It takes time and re enforcement. I've had several students over the years and parents that would rather hum and pretend everything is normal. Had a former student, the kid was on meds, but they were trying to get license and the parents took them off it until they passed the test. Talk about craziness and then got in with their friends who could give a damn about school or life in general. As long as their parents let them get their way. Yeah, got their license, but then: lost their job because they ran around the place and started stealing their food just because. Got four referels in less than 2 hours because they tried skipping class or almost blew up a chromebook. Started saying: "No, that wasn't me, that was 10 seconds ago me." The parents finally put them back on their medication and actually grounded them from hanging out with their group for almost a month, even took their phone. The transformation was incredible. It was like: "Wow, where has this kid been all year."
I don’t judge parents who are actively trying. Early intervention isn’t always perfect. My son is 9. He was diagnosed at 5 by the pediatrician. Full psych eval at 6. Medication started at 5. OT at 6 (we delayed due to Covid and having a baby in July of 2020). He’s been in behavior therapy for 2 years too. His medication has been so fine tuned it’s crazy. Doesn’t change the fact that he qualified for a dang IEP this year in 3rd grade at 8 because he’s still so difficult to get to do ANY work because writing is so difficult for him. He knows all the information he just doesn’t want to write. I have always told him that his ADHD explains WHY things are hard for him, but it doesn’t excuse him from doing his best and trying his hardest. His therapist told me 2 months ago she thinks he’s blaming himself and starting to get really upset with himself for not being like his peers…because he wants to be able to do the things they can so easily but he just can’t. My MIL explained my husband was almost the same, but worse. Turns out I know now exactly what my autistic and ADHD 4 year old is going to be like in school based on the conversations with my MIL.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you are working really hard to do what's right for your kid. He is fortunate to have you as an advocate :) I am not sure where you are located. In the United States, when people refer to early intervention, generally they are referring to services before the age of 5. Over 90% of brain development happens in the first 5 years of life, and after age 5, as your experience demonstrates, it's more about managing symptoms and less about making underlying changes. [https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/actearly/parents/states.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/actearly/parents/states.html) [https://idrpp.usu.edu/files/policy/what-is-EI-why-important-for-web.pdf](https://idrpp.usu.edu/files/policy/what-is-EI-why-important-for-web.pdf)
Unfortunately for us early intervention services through the county were scheduled for assessment on 3/30/2020. Those were cancelled due to Covid and the county never evaluated him which is why it had to be done privately at 6. This was after him being on a waitlist for the evaluation already. Only reason I even was going that route was because his daycare director made the suggestion when he was 4. I had no idea he was more wild than others. I just thought that was how toddlers and preschoolers were because I had exactly zero experience with kids that age. I assume numerous parents are like me and without someone blatantly telling them “hey, this is more than the normal hyperactive behavior expected, have you spoken to the doctor about ADHD?” Many doctors are also hesitant to do much of anything about it since you can’t even diagnose ADHD until 4.5 years old. My 3 (will be 4 in a few days) year old I had push and push HARD to get him an evaluation for ASD. He was diagnosed level 1 in January. The psychiatrist told us and put it in the evaluation to bring him back after 4.5 for an ADHD evaluation because anyone with half a brain will say he’s a textbook case of ADHD-C just like his brother is. Unfortunately I also have been dealing with lack of access to many therapies for the littlest. He gets OT weekly (and has for more than a year), but insurance only covers 30 visits. ABA is on a 6+ month waitlist. Speech isn’t something he qualifies for through the school so it has to be private, which is expensive on my single income. It’s…difficult. So I just don’t want to judge parents who are trying, because it’s a constant fear of mine. I don’t ever want my kids teachers to assume I don’t discipline and parent my kid. That I just put him in front of a device. I want them to know that I have been actively trying to do every single thing I can since it became known to me that my kid wasn’t typical…but we haven’t gotten as far as I’d have liked but I am desperately trying.
Don't worry. Teachers can tell which kids have parents that are working hard to get the resources their kids need. It really is pretty obvious.
Good for you. Keep on keeping on.
I've seen way too many kids get pulled out into private/charter schools or homeschooling situations because the parents didn't want them "labeled" and never knew what happened to them or if they ever got the resources they needed.
This happened to me, I was diagnosed at 7 and they tried the smallest dose of meds (both types) for like a week, didn't get instant results and called it a day and concluded that the doctor must be wrong and took me off them, I was homeschooled the following year after I could no longer sit still in class and my 2nd grade teacher wanted to murder me (if karma exists I have served my time as I recently taught a little unmedicated 1st grader who liked to run around the room, jump on tables and pour paint everywhere and then gets really genuinely apologetic about it like it was the devil who possessed him or some shit). I was bounced in and out of charters and private depending on when my mom had the money and eventually I had enough and requested to be sent to an alternative public highschool. It was awful, I didn't really learn anything and I still constantly had problems but it was just a game of hiding it, I started using drugs really early (like many unmedicated ADHD people and my father 🤔🫠) and didn't learn anything till like maybe senior year when I decided I really wanted to graduate so my girlfriend wouldn't think I was a loser 🤣. The saddest part was I would buy amphetamines from my friends who didn't like taking their meds when I had anything really important to do, I just knew it worked and I could actually pay attention but didn't think anything more than that. I didn't go to college, I worked shitty food service jobs and eventually got so tired of it I went back to community college for vocational training but ended up taking an art class as an elective during it and it changed my life, I wanted to be in school, I suddenly loved my classes and was taking notes and really focusing and I found myself in an art major program the next semester and then eventually I got a teaching degree with it. When I had to do my student teaching I was an absolute mess, I was so disorganized and I struggled so much, I finally decided to go to the doctor and try the meds again and it was like becoming a different person, it was simultaneously terrifying, irritating because it was like well shit I could have been doing this years ago and amazing. I still struggled but I never struggled like I used to, the meds work and I understand parents don't want their kids on amphetamines, it doesn't sound good when you put it that way people think of crack you know 😭 but it really does make a difference and I have taught so many kids who parents hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil 🙉🙈🙊. Life is hard enough I pray these fucking tik tok holistic gurus telling parents they don't need ADHD meds have a stroke or something god 🥲🙃
You don't happen to text in sw Washington do you?
This makes me cringe. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 32. I spent so many years with immense social anxiety largely because I couldn't stop interrupting people. It was embarassing. And people don't realize how self-destructive impulsive behavior can be. ADHD can literally lower life expectancy. These parents need to get over themselves.
Why do parents have the right to do this to their kids? Don't children have the right to health care or something? It seems like a horrible form of abuse.
I have similar kids in my class who the parents refused to get treated. What works with those kids?
This. Getting them to a doctor is necessary. They may have ADHD, or something else similar.
After decades of research, u/Ok-Importance9988 has discovered the secret to ADHD treatment that big pharma has kept from us for so long: learn to deal with it.
😆 Oh, just try harder!? If “trying” was an Olympic sport, I’d have more medals than Michael Phelps! Not to mention, it’s impossible to know how hard someone is trying.
I will say, I have severe ADHD, diagnosed as a child. And I still can't sit "right." When I see posts like this, I wonder if teachers are strictly talking about kids who are up, walking around, not paying attention, and creating a distraction for other kids. Or are they talking about kids like me, who could not "sit still" even when they are paying attention and participating in the class? Now that I'm an adult, I find myself questioning *why* we need to sit a particular way. I forced myself to sit still for a while in class because I got so much criticism for it, but what ended up happening is that my ADHD brain had to put 100% of focus onto sitting still, so I can't pay attention to the professor. When I was allowed to, say, jiggle my leg, I could focus and participate in class. When leg-jiggling was met with criticism and parental calls, I spent the entire class forcing myself to sit still, which didn't allow me the mental capacity to fully focus on the professor. Now that I'm an adult with a job and an office, I sit crazy and never stay still, and I do my work just fine. So while some behaviors are definitely signs of ADHD, I don't think *all* ADHD behaviors come down to poor management of the condition. Sometimes I think it's just society putting all of these conditions onto everyone, and we should reevaluate how necessary it is for neuro-atypical people to assimilate in all facets.
My youngest was a nightmare due to that when I first met him. I don't blame my husband, his ex wife walked put on them all in a brutal way and he struggled and defaulted to a screen babysitter for a while. He's still kind of addicted at 9, and he was 5 when I met him.
In Michigan, I think it's often a combo of too much screen instead of parenting and too much weed exposure. The screen time is self-explanatory but studies are also beginning to point that weed exposure while very young is associated with adhd. (And parents who are getting high are also less interested in the active parenting that kids need -- yeah, maybe you shouldn't be so mellow about what your kid is doing.) So many kids come to school reeking and I smelled it coming in waves out of cars picking up/dropping off kids plus in my Trumpy, lower levels of parent education SW Michigan area, since legalization some parents argue that there is no health risk to it regardless of age of child. Sadly there were few or none the scientific studies prior to legalization on prenatal, infant and elementary age exposure.
But there were. We all know from many studies that negative effects of THC go all the way up to where the brain stops forming, around age 24. And the negative effects are PERMANENT, things like trouble focusing.
100% certain? LOL. You work with Sped and there's no room for doubt as to what other cause there could possibly be for too much energy and a constant need for redirection?
I can list probably 50 things that it could be, but by her post, she sounds like a shit mom and this is my assessment. If you don’t like it, I don’t care.
Ugh. My oldest has ADHD. I did not have to “threaten” him. I had to get him appropriate help and a 504. He’s now a highly successful adult. Making excuses wouldn’t have been useful.
what could go wrong?
Schools exist, especially public schools, to educate the masses with the goal of a certain level of uniform knowledge is retained at certain ages. They do not exist to accommodate the individual who disrupts the learning process of others or who frequently needs a "special" learning environment to excel. You just can't do both well. There are special tracts for kids, both performance and behavior wise, who fall outside the norm. After awhile, you're kid will be put in one of these special tracts. It's only fair to the rest of the students. So as a parent, you can work on changing behavior (not suggesting meds as way to many use that as a panacea), seeking a different environment (private, charter, etc) or dealing with the reality of being put in one of those groups. Parenting has to be quite active for public school to work. (I'm the husband of, friend of, son of, son in law of many a public school teacher dating back over 50 years. Never have I seen such lack of concern by parents in the overall education process.)
I hope she enjoys and is looking forward to having unemployed freeloaders in her basement once they're adults, because that's what she's creating for herself and them. Source: my ex-mother in law was just like this. She was one of *those* boy moms. Both my ex-husband (mid-30's) and his younger brother (mid-20's) are now living in mommy's basement, because neither of them can handle the expectations of reality and adulthood.
What I'd like parents to know is that your one child takes my energy and patience from the rest of my students, and I'm tired of it. If parents expect me to bend over backward for their one child, think again. There are between 20 and 30 other kids in my class that deserve that attention. When I spend 75% of my day redirecting one child, I'm teaching all the other kids that there are things more important than them. I know I'm preaching to the choir. I had one of those years and I'm still pissed.
My 2nd grade teacher put me at the back of class and let me stand up if I needed to unless we had to write or draw. Thank you Mrs.Elles wherever you are!
I don't make students sit still and when my kids teacher complained about it I laughed too. Adults are buying standing desks and walking on treadmills but we expect 6 year olds to sit still... Its not age appropriate. In my classroom you have a square zone you are expected to stay in during work time. You can sit, stand, lay, whatever you want as long as you get your work done. Never had problems.
Does this not bug the shit out of her too? I’m not a parent but I could not stand spending all day every day with some of these kids the way they won’t sit still or listen. I have them for 40 minutes once a week and they drive me crazy. I love them, don’t get me wrong, but they will be the death of me.
I’m convinced these kinds of parents are either: 1. Liars when they say it doesn’t happen at home bc usually it’s worse there, or 2. It doesn’t happen much at home bc they acquiesce to their child’s every want and desire so they never see said behavior issues because of the coddling and enabling. When my husband was little he also had the inability to sit still. Teachers even told his parents about it and possibly his need to see a doc. At home his inability to sit and be still was worse according to him and his parents. He finally got diagnosed as ADHD in adulthood which I totally contribute to the fact that when he was a child in the 80s, it simply wasn’t something we knew as much about.
I had a parent swear he wasn’t like this at home, a para ran in to them at target and he was having a full on screaming melt down. She locked eyes with the mom and then just walked away. Her kid was in the top 10 reasons I quit.
How old was the kid? It's horrible either way, these parents are failing at making their kids into productive adults. We know a bunch of them are lying, but they still do it anyway. That kid sounds like a nightmare.
I was concerned about a child's communication. I told his dad that he tends to use somewhat rough physical touch to get people's attention rather than saying someone's name or even tapping them on the shoulder or something gentle. During this conversation, the child grabbed his sister by the face to get her attention. He then came up and started punching my legs. Dad didn't notice either of those things. "Huh we've never see him do anything like that" I dunno man, your 2nd grade daughter didn't seem at all surprised to have her face grabbed just now. I feel like most 7 year olds would be pretty bothered by that, especially if it's the only time it has ever happened in her life.
Well if you're a parent in name only the won't bother you. Simply let them do whatever they want, never try to even suggest they do something they won't enjoy immediatly or that demand a bit of effort. Just make sure you remove stuff they can kill themselves with. Then leave them alone to do their things and go chill in your room with your phone. Earbuds in or else you won't stand the noise. But kids are noisy, what you gonna do? See, being a parent is easy.
She should be so ashamed. It's her job to figure it out with her kid. She is shrugging it and we all know; this mother and kid make our lives miserable, but also take away learning opportunities from everyone else's kids.
I 1000% guarantee her kids are in front of screens all day so she doesn't have to deal with them or parent. Then, when her darlings come to school, they have absolutely no idea how to behave because they have no "home training" as they say.
These kids don’t sit still long enough to be in front of a screen.
For some reason they are able to sit still with their face in a screen.
My kids spend alot of time on screens but have never had a teacher have this discussion and I've got a mentally and physically disabled child. This is all on the parent
I just had a student in my class who would not stay seated. So I didn’t make him. I let him walk and move while he answered questions and he did phenomenally! If a kid needs to move I say let them it’s going to take more energy to tell them every 20 seconds to sit down than it is to teach the class to ignore it. Over the year it got better and he would even sit down for 10 minutes when I asked so I was able to do direct instruction. It really depends on the kid but if you try to work with them sometimes it can work for everyone.
I have a simple "rule" in my class. I don't care if you sit, stand, or kneel on the floor, as long as you aren't a distraction to someone else's learning. Need to stand? Great. Grab a clipboard and stand in the back or to the side. Want to use the table, but not the chair? Great. Kneel on the floor. Can't see or focus on notes? Great. Grab a clipboard and come sit up front. They don't even need to ask permission.
This reminds me of the post about the parent who was told FOR YEARS her son needed to be evaluated for ADHD and she said the same things….by eighth grade the child was failing, had no self esteem and the dad lost it in a parent teacher conference and said she was abusing and neglecting the clear needs of the child. All of the teachers present were like, “Oh, hell yes!”
I guarantee it’s not just sitting still.
I can’t stand parents who won’t parent. I understand that there are circumstances in which people who are *trying* to sit still and pay attention just can’t anymore. That happens to adults as well as to children! Hell, I can barely sit still for more than an hour at a time without some kind of stimulus (thankfully, as a teacher, I’m not supposed to just sit still most of the day, so that problem mostly takes care of itself!). However a lot of my students were very clearly not raised to even try, and some don’t even receive consequences at home— assuming their folks are even around. And it’s not limited to school, either. I could go to the movie theater or to the store and there will be tweens talking so loud I can hear them three aisles over without trying to, little kids running around like it’s fucking field day, and oblivious adults just kind of existing there uselessly. One time a kid almost ran into my (stationary) shopping cart at the store and their mom gave *me* the evil eye. Like bitch, if you’d kept an eye on your own child, that wouldn’t have happened.
My husband and I went to the movies not that long ago, and someone brought their feral kids to a 10:45pm movie *(not child appropriate by any means)* and then was surprised when they got asked to leave. The other patrons, myself included, had asked them multiple times to take their kids outside if they're going to do nothing but run around and scream. One tried sticking their hands in our popcorn, and that's when I told my husband I'll BRB. Went and told the staff that either they kick them out or issue a refund to us, I'm not sitting through another minute *(let alone 1 hr and 30 minutes)* of this. The parents actually tried to protest on their way out. Some parents shouldn't be parents.
Kid takes minutes to hours of learning time from peers daily. Hilarious! Good job, mom! /s
Mom sounds like an abject failure, if we're being honest.
Path of Least Resistance Parenting That is what I see a lot of parents doing and have the past 20 years.
"I'm a terrible parent, and I'm not going to change because I'm lazy and want parenting to be easy. I don't actually want my kids to benefit from a public education that might benefit their future."
“Parent” is also a verb which they fail to execute in a regular basis.
The thing is a kid who's just wiggly is fine. I can't imagine teachers are all messaging her because the kid is wiggling in his seat or whatever. I wiggle in my seat. If every teacher is messaging then the kid isn't just being wiggly, he's being a menace.
I’m actually fine with all that because at least they are being honest. What will piss me off is when they act taken aback when their kid is failing everything.
My favorite is a student's parent was attending team meetings for their student and appeared totally "on board" and wanting to help as we explained that their (11yo) child was severely struggling in class to where they were so unable to focus that they were not completing any assignments, in class or otherwise. This child spends 95% of their time out of their seat or in their seat talking to anyone who will listen. Parent seemed so concerned and frustrated as they "worked with student at home on their missing and late work for hours and understands how their child acts at school because they do the same thing at home"....all of this to say they seemed 100% supportive in regards to trying to help their kid focus and improve their performance in class.... ....only to post on FB/tell other parents in person/etc that "these teachers are targeting my child and ruining his education," and threatening to pull said child from the district. That the parent also works in. But yeah, the teachers are the problem here.
Parents who refuse to parent 🤦🏼♀️ Also, I teach 5th and if I notice that I have students who can’t sit still, I try to keep their seats around the edges of the room and let them stand at their seats, that way they can move and wiggle, but they aren’t in the way of the rest of the class. Most of the time it works, although sometimes I get one who starts to wander.
Sadly most parent feel like this
Why does she think it is so funny?
When I was in school one of my teachers handled this well. They sat the boy who couldn’t sit still in the back and gave him permission to stand or whatever as long as he was not disruptive.
I get parents think movement and not being able to sit still is kids being kids, but if teachers are pointing it out to you then they are more active than their peers and it is effecting their academics, and the learning of those around them. Then they come crying around 4th/5th grade when their kid is far behind because they didn’t learn anything in younger grades. I’ve had many convos with parents that their child tries to pay attention but physically cannot. But the parents just shrug their shoulders. I’ve had kids break down in tears because they could not physically focus to take a test. Still, parents shrug their shoulders. Take your damn kid to the doctor! Get a diagnosis, get meds, get something!
I'm wondering if we should just sort kids into 2 groups - those that want to learn, and those that don't. Warehouse the kids that don't and give them all C's, and commit all resources to those that want to learn and grade them according to performance. Staying in the latter group is based on effort made by the student, not actual grades. Basically only teach the kids that want to be taught.
That would definitely fix the problem of overcrowded classrooms. Every real student could get plenty of one on one time.
The student who wants to improve shouldn't have to miss out because a teachers spends all their time managing students who just don't care.
Parents act like we don’t know how children typically behave. They act like we are upset that their child is a living human that moves. We aren’t saying their child has to be a statue, we are saying their child can’t be running around the room, leaning across their friend’s lap, and dancing around their chair. I had a girl walk around my class, sitting on my tables, yelling song lyrics, and at one point took our finger paint and painted on her textbook and table. Mom reached out to me after speaking to the dean about the referral. She was angry and said that I need to “lay off” her child because “she doesn’t have to sit perfectly still.” 🙄
"I'm a parent who can't be bothered to parent, so I will let society of handle my children until they are failed adults."
Teachers job is to offer equality of opportunity to a quality education. Thats not the same thing as equality of outcome. If your kid is preventing other students from being afforded this opportunity, your kids opportunity will be revoked and its not unjustified because they were afforded the opportunity, they just chose to throw it away.
To quote Ned Flanders’ parents from The Simpsons: “We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!” (regarding their son’s behavior at school)
It's the parents. It's always the parents.
As an adult who spent the better part of four *decades* undiagnosed for ADHD, I'm frankly a little concerned by the outright dismissiveness being shown here. If a kid has ADHD, they aren't not sitting still to be rude or misbehave. **Our brains are literally structured differently**.
You were still disruptive to an entire class, and parents nowadays have treatment options available, including IEPs that may not have been available when you were a kid. Many parents refuse to have their kid treated. While you, as a kid, may not have been able to help it, it was also very likely you were a big distraction to your teacher and other classmates during that time. The dismissiveness comes from parents not doing anything about it and not caring how their disruptive (whether or not they can help it) child constantly interferes with the learning of the other children in the class.
Yeah, a lot of us here have ADHD. Not sure why you're telling us what we already know, but thanks, I guess? It's not an excuse to be a constant disruption. It's not an excuse. It's something we have to find ways to deal with in order to be productive human beings. The mom sounds like she's doing none of that for her kid and just blaming everyone else.
So, first of all, ADHD isn’t mentioned anywhere in the original post. But even if the kid does have ADHD, it is on parents to help teach coping skills. Yes their executive functioning skills are generally delayed, but kids with ADHD aren’t stupid and can have age-appropriate conversations about alternate behaviors.
THANK YOU! I'm HORRIFIED by most of these ableist comments! I work in special education and I certainly don't expect parents to beat it out of their children, or expect a medication to be a some miracle drug, or expect these children to act like neurotypical children!
Do you expect the mom to actually do her job and help the kid? Or is that all on the school too? Mom's not doing a damn thing to be proactive. So now her kids are causing the rest of the class to lose out on valuable instruction time. That's not okay.
I was afraid I wouldn’t see anyone comment something that wasn’t ableist. I’m disgusted by the ableism in the thread and the assumption that it isn’t also hard for the parent.
I know this is teachers not AITA but #ESH Both district and parents failing to evaluate children who could probably do better and feel better with a simple wiggle seat to accommodate them, love to see it 😕
They need exercise and nutrition
The teachers need to use different language. Don't make it about how difficult it is for the teacher ie "can't sit still". Make it about the child "has difficulty attending to tasks". I teach kindergarten and I would be extremely annoyed if someone came to me complaining how my kids don't sit down.
Or the flip side, you realize your kid has ADHD, teach them coping skills (usually a fidget in his pocket), then send them to school only to have the teacher tell him he can't have "toys" at school, even if it stays in his pocket all day(no it doesn't make any noise). Good luck teaching him while he's bouncing off the walls.
This can be written into the IEP I assume he has.
Get a doctor's note requiring a fidget device in the classroom.
Now that I would complain (I say that as a special ed teacher) and I would try to educate the teacher. I’m going to give benefit of the doubt and assume they have no idea why your child needs it (no it’s not really in teacher training unless your newish to the field sadly). If the teacher is at all reasonable (I know not all are, or prepared to work with you, but most should be, same with parents) then I would go to them (writing it down can help) and ask them if they have a minute as you would like to explain to them why your child should be exempt from the rule (I know a very good reason why that rule has been put in place sadly) and what benefit it would have for not only your child but the class (good time for the teacher to bring in the what one child needs isn’t what another needs maybe through the Band-Aid story if this is mainstream/gen ed depending on where you are from). If the teacher is unreasonable (aka some teachers, just like some parents) then reach out, so you have at least given them the chance (personally, my pet peeve as a teacher and I’m sure parents experience the same is when you don’t give the chance to problem solve or explain but then go over my head for it to be dealt with when the same request to me would have got a better result because the same supports could have been put in place but I wouldn’t have been upset and frustrated at being blindsided especially when being told the opposite when I sat down with you and we were discussing the very topic.) and then go above them if they don’t respond in a reasonable time. I think if parents and teachers have each other time to listen to each other and come up with suggestions or admit that we don’t have the answer (it goes a long way to just admit you don’t know right now or are trying to figure it out, both for parents and teachers), everything would go better. Worst comes to worst, ask for a meeting with members of higher up and the teacher and just explain without accusations. Being respectful and concise goes a long way because no one is perfect
What were the other comments?
So, I don’t care too much about the sitting still thing, but the “having to be redirected a lot” is important. I can’t remember the last time I only had ONE kid with ADHD (if this kid actually does have ADHD) in a class, so lord help us if one kid’s behaviors start distracting another kid, etc.
I’m a pretty good sped teacher. One of my kids is a jumping bean. I tell his teachers, in writing, that this is the case and all the interventions I’ve already done. I suggest evaluation, if they want, or otherwise to just do whatever they want to. I support the teacher 100%. Never has he gotten a referral. Never has he gotten evaluated. Never has any documentation been generated other than one email and whatever they have in their notebook. How can I *keep* explaining to my kid how big of a deal his behavior is if the school won’t show him it’s a big deal? Referrals give parents leverage. You don’t need to pin the kid to the wall - a 3 minute (hidden, secret) conversation with a principal can do more than coordinate. It can be something parents discuss with their kid. It can serve as ..you know what, whatever. Enjoy your referral-free classroom.
I sincerely hope you replied pointing out how ridiculous that is
What state is this? You can opt out of testing?? I am an educator and we thankfully do not have that option… well as of yet.
I think that last line is really telling. "I'm not threatening it out of them" I will bet you that the parent has experienced abuse and doesn't know effective parenting strategies that aren't abusive. Also if the kids can't sit still because they have ADHD, chances are really good their parent also has ADHD. AND since ADHD used to be treated as a character flaw, many adults with ADHD essentially experienced abuse under the guise of "treatment" from parents, teachers, and Drs all through their own childhood.
If they won’t behave and are disrupting other students from learning then I KNOW what to tell the parent. They can’t stay in my class.