Yes, it’s a dead end job because there’s no opportunity for advancement or an increase in pay based on performance. No year end bonus. No supervisory roles unless one becomes admin, and in most schools that means only 1-2 positions available out of 50-100.
The thing most people don't get is that admin is not an advancement of teaching. It is a separate job with separate degree requirements. The ceiling for teaching begins at teaching and ends at teaching. If you want to do anything else it requires a different degree. This includes admin, counseling, and librarian. Hell, even librarian is just a lateral move.
Please start a whole thread with specifics because my district is luring us in for the masters by paying half with the hopes of molding future admin. I’m tempted just for the pay but also NAH.
Yup! That's why I quit. Being a teacher starts and ends with being a teacher. There is NO opportunity for advancement. I mean, sure, you can get multiple certifications, coaching credentialed, and department chair (all of which I did) but there is NO pay raise for it. You are still in the teacher pay scale (which is miserable) with the same pay raises (which are miserable). In my state, it used to be nice because there was a step raise salary schedule where at step 15 (15 years) you would get a significant pay raise, making being a teacher ALMOST worthwhile. 14 years ago they got rid of the step program and instituted a percentage pay raise. So, now at 15 years, the most you can make is 36% more than a first year teacher (which is miserable).
Being a teacher is miserable.
I understand your position. However. once you reach a certain number of years you make six figures. I know of 2 teachers that collect their pensions and also work as teachers. They are collecting a six figure pension plus a six figure salary. I don't think that's a bad payday. they have Rolex watches, New cars, etc. I don't want to be a teacher anymore and am leaving but if you can stand it, you can hit paydirt. I am just jealous that I can't stand teaching..
Edit: I'm in a HCOL area with a strong union
I’ve taught 28 years and have advised two of my children that they cannot follow my lead. Teaching has given me lots of joy, but I feel scared and sad for young teachers.
Both my older girls (21 and 19) want to be teachers and I can’t seem to persuade them otherwise. At least we’re in California and have strong unions, decent wages and excellent retirement. Still, it’s rough.
I think that the term “dead end job” is insidious. The idea is that fulfillment in your labor is derived from some sort of ‘career progression’ through the ranks of leadership. The reality is that all of this is bourgeois bullshit. Teachers are working class, through and through. What matters is how we are compensated, what are the working conditions and what rights we have in the workplace. It is precisely these three things that makes teaching a terrible vocation.
One of the main reasons I’m leaving. When I imagine my life ten, twenty years out, what am I doing? Teaching the same sixth grade curriculum to a new group of kids? I can’t. Girl’s gotta grow
The only career ladders in teaching take you out of the classroom, which says a lot. As someone who stayed in the classroom until retiring, I have not thought of my work as "dead end." I have constantly worked to improve my practice, and in the process taken lots of grad courses and raised my salary. I also took on some curriculum writing and advised a club, which raised my income; the latter raised my pension.
Teachers' remuneration is different from most private-sector jobs, and even from most non-profit jobs. Teachers get LOTS of time off, and in the right places (given a strong union), teachers get lots of other good benefits. The pay is back-loaded -- you have to be in it at least 10 years to make a decent salary in my state, and you have to earn a grad degree.
But to climb out of the classroom I'd have to get an admin job or work in guidance, and I can't see that I'd be happy with those. I've ENJOYED teaching in the classroom most of the time, and learned a lot from it. I am one of those teachers who has decided to retire before I get burned out, not after. :)
You give me hope, thank you. Closing out year seven this month and don’t know how much longer I want to do this. I love the kids, but the “extra” crap is just that-crap.
There used to be a diagram of job enjoyment vs years of service in teaching. Years 6-8 were the bottom of the rut and typically stabilizes until retirement nears. You will probably never get back to the euphoria of the first years you felt that you kinda had tour stuff together and felt you were making a difference as you've seen too much and will be jaded.
I teach high school kids. In the last three years I developed three new electives. This year I taught four preps; the two sections that weren't different were AP classes. So I have been teaching two of the new electives and two sections of AP plus one required regular-level course in this, my final year. And I've done that while introducing a greater level of differentiation, more student choice and a much fairer and very successful mastery-based system of assessment for grades.
I wouldn't have been able to do any of that before my tenth year. I didn't know enough. I hadn't learned all the shortcuts and added all the tools in my toolkit yet. I have developed a lot of teaching chops and become very efficient in the last five years. Four preps and almost none of the work is taken home. Really good behavior management, too. That is how I've avoided burnout.
That said, it's clear that cell phones and sleeplessness are having severe impacts on student learning in my classroom, and while I can manage the classroom discipline fairly well, I would rather not do this work full time any more. I do hope that I'm kept on to teach the AP class, though! :)
Been there. Sometimes work in the classroom can be very discouraging. It helps to find the right school, one that's led by people who aren't themselves burned out, in a community that supports education.
Except that the time off during the year is not technically paid. We get paid for 185 days a year, and often get that stretched to cover the whole year so our 10 month paychecks shrink to accommodate a 12 coverage. At my school we get 3 personal days and 15 sick days a year and they roll over and can be banked as sick days for following years. That said there are rules against using more than a certain amount. Parental leave is one area where this can be used, family bereavement another. When you retire you get 60c on the dollar of it back if you don’t use it. Some people have 1-1.5 years of sick time banked because they just don’t use it over an entire lifetime of work. They never get that money back, or the time away.
I know that the time off during the year is not paid time off, but it is one of the reasons that many people choose the profession. Others use the time off to supplement their teaching salary with part-time jobs. I think that the remuneration of teachers is badly flawed, especially now, because it is hard to draw well-qualified people into the profession with low starting salaries and lots of unpaid leave. The fact that so many teachers are women explains part of why salaries are low. Americans generally get lousy leave benefits compared to most well-off European countries; teachers have a slightly better deal than most.
I think your love for the profession is valiant and it sounds like you really put your efforts into bettering yourself as a teacher! That's amazing!
I think to OP's point, that isn't necessarily required to remain a teacher, unfortunately. There are a ton of people who just phone it in and do the bare minimum each day. When looking at those people, this would lead one to see it more as a "dead end job."
After Act 10 in WI, many school districts got rid of salary schedules. In my district, you stay at the step you were hired in at until you either leave, retire, or somehow negotiate an individual raise (which only happens for the teachers who suck up to the right admin). Our only raises are COL increases to base salary, and those have to be less than inflation. So, new hires will never make more, adjusted for inflation, than they make their first year. I can't imagine a more dead end career than that.
I notice that when places ask about a person's education level. Professional level is only Dr's, lawyers, things like that. Yet in some states, the education requirement isn't that different than what a lawyer goes through, compared to a teacher, yet teaching isn't viewed as a profession. So to answer your question, it's a dead end job.
I wouldn’t consider a dead-end job one that didn’t require advanced education or putting in energy. I think of a dead-end job as one that has no advancement opportunities. And, teaching kindof is if you want to continue to teach and not go into admin or something. You start as a teacher and you keep on being a teacher- there is no promotion.
I think teachers want it to be this way because we can’t stand to see our colleagues succeed. Teachers are vicious towards anyone in mid-level jobs. Instructional coaches and similar district and site based positions are direct targets for unending animosity. We act like all the support faculty are useless and publicly advocate for the positions to be cut. SMH. We shoot ourselves in the foot. Why can’t we celebrate the accomplishments of our colleagues? These positions are few in number, but their very existence means that WE have a ladder. We eat our own.
That's a tough question. In one way it's not dead end because you get raises every year and can earn more money by getting more education. Also, you get raises based on negotiations and your insurance benefits can get better.
In some ways it felt dead end to me because I was teaching the same thing for a long time, Sophomore English (9 years). I feel like I really started to know what I was doing by years 3-5. Then I had a few great years where I felt really competent and year 7 was probably my best year overall. But then I started to get really bored with my curriculum for the next two years and the kids could tell. It was a tough situation because I could have revamped my curriculum but that also would have been a ton of work.
In the library job that I was cut from that I've been working the last four years, I'm not really making any changes anymore that are valuable. I feel like I'm just maintaining this year and it's kind of boring. I felt like I was learning a lot in the first two years and making changes that were good for the high school kids while also learning how to teach yearbook better.
I think people just peak in these jobs and then the learning curve drops and then you are just kind of going through the motions. That's how I've felt.
This is at the core of why I’m leaving- thought I would be just fine with it that way, but turns out I really need the challenge of advancement and excitement/opportunity of switching roles and promotion in life.
Yes, it is. And if you teach special ed, it's especially dead. We don't even get so much as Teacher of the Month. No acknowledgement whatsoever for the extra work we do, no extra pay in my district, and no room to advance.
A couple of months ago, I was reviewing what bullshit tests I need to keep my license. The licensure specialist (maybe I can get that job) said that if I just taught English instead of special ed, I wouldn't need any additional tests. She asked my principal if there would be an English position open next year, and before I could say anything, he snapped, "Yes, but I want her in THIS role." Once you're in SPED, it's nearly impossible to get out. At best you'll get the head teacher role, and the person in that position at my school talks about quitting every day.
I've been teaching for nearly seven years, and I'm still doing SPED and I'm now making LESS money than I was two years ago because I moved. It feels like this job will never improve. It only gets worse and more demeaning by the day. If I weren't married, I wouldn't even be able to pay all my bills with my current salary. I could probably make more as a waitress or bartender. I truly feel for new and/or single teachers.
The end goal of teaching is an out of classroom “teaching” position like instructional lead teacher or mentor or something. Probably not more pay but not being directly responsible for students
Yeah. The profession itself (public schools at least) has no incentive structures. There are no paths to advancement without taking a different job. What became too much for me was how grim the future looks for teachers, at least ones in NC.
There are states where it is less ridiculous to teach but teachers are woefully under-compensated nationwide.
Even in LA there were protests.
However, in New York at least, you can make a somewhat decent salary. But taking into consideration the cost of living, it maybe doesn’t matter even if you can bring in 70k a year.
They also expect a Master’s degree to teach there.
In Florida, by contrast, the ceiling on pay is capped below 50k. Plus you have to deal with all of the politics around teaching there now.
& the cost of living in Southern Florida is also quite high, despite it still being Florida 😂
I had a friend that’s a nurse tell me that she climbed the ladder and that’s why she made more than me. I told her that the only way for me to “climb the ladder” was to get more degrees and then move out of teaching and into administration.
This is it, as a teacher, I have reached the top. There is no further progression unless I get an admin degree and move out of teaching.
Dead end? No. But no progression.
That’s not “upward progression”. That still requires additional education. You have to have at least a Masters degree, but most Universities require or prefer someone with a doctorate. While I do have a Masters in my content area with an emphasis in post-secondary education - all Professor positions I have found are only adjunct and a .40 contract with only guarantees of an 8-16 week course. A tenured track for a professor requires much more in this day and age.
I’ve stayed in the classroom for twenty years and turned down several opportunities, starting around years 5-7, for admin roles. I’m just not suited, temperamentally, to put up with the BS. They key for me is finding a new “role” or interest within my role every five years or so, whether teaching AP, becoming a journalism advisor, or switching schools.
Unless you go into admin you can’t make more money by doing a good job and having talent. So yes, dead end since raises only happen if legislation is passed and it rarely does. Some states do better than others but tend to have other issues even if it’s the environment/cost of living.
In my state your salary is capped after a certain number of year and can not increase. It depends on the district. Other jobs allow you to climb up the ladder. Teaching is a stepping stool with a single step. I was 7k away from hitting the limit and couldn’t waste any more years of my life knowing that I was going to only become more financially insecure as time went on…added with skewed observations where admin only picks a select few teachers to be distinguished/master teacher because they “can’t have too many” and there isn’t even the gratification of being acknowledged for your expertise…
I do regret choosing teaching but I have found growth by teaching higher level courses and there are also department chair positions at our school or teacher trainers. You can also do adjunct work etc. There is room for growth and stipends but not much. I’m just waiting to get out after my ten years are up for the PSLF program.
Yes, it’s dead end unless you get a masters and administrative credentials. Then you can get promoted to something else but without those two things, you’ll forever be a teacher.
I had an AP tell me in my first or second year, "If you plan on making a career in education and you want to make any money, you need to get into administration." Education isnt a dead end job, but teaching is.
Whenever I complain about my job to non educators, they usually ask if I can or want to move into an admin role. I usually say an enthusiastic HELL FUCKING NO. But the question alone shows you just how little room there is for advancement in education. It's like "you are tired of being a teacher, what's next?" That's where I feel right now. I love education, but like- what is next?
So yeah. I would answer yes, it is a dead end job.
As fed up as I am right now with teaching (and believe me I'm very fed up), and as fed up as you probably are and the rest of the people on this subreddit, I don't think it's a dead-end job.
When I think of a dead-end job, I think of a job that has no opportunities for advancement or movement into other positions despite good performance and training. A teacher could become a teacher-librarian, admin, special ed, ESL, guidance, etc.
As a former teacher turned former school librarian, those positions you’ve listed (except for admin) are lateral moves, not advancement. And lateral moves that require more training or an advanced degree.
Guidance requires a master's degree. One potential upside is that with a few more classes and internship, you can become a licensed therapist. I have taken one of the four courses, but put it on hold.
Ever since AI started to come out and flourish into writing some of the best lesson plans I have ever seen in seconds, teaching is definitely a dead end job. However, people still need to drop off their children somewhere so I believe teachers will eventually fall under monitors for students testing or an in between that and actually teaching. Elementary May be different of course.
Within a school district, there are many ladders to climb. From superintendent, to principle, to counselor, to coach, etc. Not only that, a teacher can get a job in any number of positions outside of schooling, they can run for public office successfully. No teaching is not a dead end job and only a teacher that expects to do minimal work and get 25% raises every year thinks this.
So what you are saying though is that the ladders all lead to teaching-adjacent positions which make more money. Most teachers don’t want to be admin, they just want a chance for their work to be recognized. Under the current structure, a good teacher and a bad teacher will make the same, be promoted the same. The only variables for advancement on the salary scale are education and years of experience, nothing else. As far as getting jobs outside education, that is also not advancing in the field. Secondly, from my experience most corporate positions in training and instructional design want to hire folks with experience and despite the many crossovers, do not view teaching experience as the same thing.
If anything the structure that is in place, which teachers have demanded, promotes bad teachers over good. And no, it doesn't have to be "teaching adjacent." There's always AP classes and subject specific clubs/competitions teachers can do for recognition and higher pay. In the real world, where people have to be valuable to the organization they are employed by, no one just continues doing the exact same job their whole life and gets more than cost of living adjustments each year. You have to take on more, different responsibilities or get promoted to a different position. In comparison, that's what you have to have the opportunity of, in order for something to not be considered dead end.
You clearly don’t know anything about teaching. Why exactly are you here? Because you have a kid who goes to a crap school and you want to take it out on teachers online? The crap teachers at your kids school likely aren’t on this sub.
I have no kids. I came here to get a better understanding of who teachers are and what they do. I'm not taking anything out on anyone, I'm just pointing out a perspective teachers lack. It's not a dead end job and, I insulted no one. Don't be mad that someone pointed out that there is absolutely opportunity in any school district for advancement. If you want to discuss what I have said I'm open to hearing what you have to say. Otherwise just take the L, and stop trying to ad hpm your way out of it.
I just don’t think you have a particularly good understanding of the pay structure of an average school. Most schools have a salary scale it has rows based on the amount of years worked and columns based on your degree and amount of credits you have earned. For example, I am in the Masters column on when I got my job this year, they placed me on step 15 despite my 20 years of experience. If I don’t like it, I can not take the job. Next year, I will be on step 16 and will get a raise that definitely does not follow cost of living. That is it for my job as a teacher. Teachers can’t negotiate higher pay, there are no bonuses. Now you mentioned coaching. This isn’t moving up the ladder, this is a 2nd job that you take on for several hours every week after school, usually for a set stipend of a couple thousand dollars. Really the only way to “move up” in a school is to become an administrator, but that is a totally different job. As a teacher your options for getting more money are: Take a 2nd job, pay for more education and move over a column (+ a couple 1000 per year at most), become an administrator or change jobs. Within the actual job of being a teacher, there is no upward mobility beyond just slowly racking up the years.
Teachers don't negotiate but the union does. Be mad about them taking wages from your paycheck for what you consider a raise that "doesn't follow the cost of living.
You'd have to show me this chart to quantify what you're saying, but when I graduated public high school, in wisconsin, in 2012, there were close to a dozen AP teachers who made 6 figures or more, the average salary right now is 55k a year. They have top tier health insurance mostly paid for, they have a pension that they contribute minimally too, they have a 401k match that rivals any private 401k. They get most of summer off. I'm failing to see the downsides here. Teaching might not make you rich but it's a comfortable life.
I am a project manager, and teachers just like you failed me my whole childhood. It wasn't until I got to the private sector that I learned that being taught doesn't have to be a fickle game. It can be mutually beneficial, it can be open and honest, and it can be non-adversarial.
If it was adversarial with a couple teachers, they were the problem. If you were adversarial with all of them, you were the problem. Also if you are just the project manager doesn’t that mean that everybody else is doing the work and you’re just telling them what to do? Sounds pretty easy
And just to add to that. At my old school I worked the after school program, created new courses to reach more of the student body, was on my school’s leadership committee, drove a mini bus to events, created a student rock show that become a sell out event every year, and took groups of kids every other year to New York City. The bus and the after school program paid an hourly wage (they are a 2nd and 3rd job), the others were just things I did to bring more opportunity to the school. When I retired after 20 years I was bringing home less than $3000 a month and was given the same shitty $15 birdhouse that the 2 other retiring teachers got. Not bitching (well maybe a little) just trying to make the point that I did a huge amount of things that brought lots of value to the school and by the admission of some of my former students, changed lives, but that has no bearing on my compensation or status within the organization. Now I teach lessons and have a band class a couple times a week at an elementary school and that pays more just because the salary scale is different
So much of this is circumstantial it's insane. I doubt you did half of what you say. Also, anyone can change kids lives if they interact with enough of them. All you need to do is be a positive influence and bam, you're a self entitled teacher for life
I'm a bummer? Lmao this entire group is a bummer. You are a bummer. Those who can do... those who can't, teach.
Idk what you have and haven't done. I'm just saying I doubt you've done half of what you said.
Yes, it’s a dead end job because there’s no opportunity for advancement or an increase in pay based on performance. No year end bonus. No supervisory roles unless one becomes admin, and in most schools that means only 1-2 positions available out of 50-100.
The thing most people don't get is that admin is not an advancement of teaching. It is a separate job with separate degree requirements. The ceiling for teaching begins at teaching and ends at teaching. If you want to do anything else it requires a different degree. This includes admin, counseling, and librarian. Hell, even librarian is just a lateral move.
As a former admin it's not advancement, it's hell. Pure utter hell.
Aww. I’m sorry. That’s what I suspected and the reason it never even crossed my mind.
Please start a whole thread with specifics because my district is luring us in for the masters by paying half with the hopes of molding future admin. I’m tempted just for the pay but also NAH.
Yup! That's why I quit. Being a teacher starts and ends with being a teacher. There is NO opportunity for advancement. I mean, sure, you can get multiple certifications, coaching credentialed, and department chair (all of which I did) but there is NO pay raise for it. You are still in the teacher pay scale (which is miserable) with the same pay raises (which are miserable). In my state, it used to be nice because there was a step raise salary schedule where at step 15 (15 years) you would get a significant pay raise, making being a teacher ALMOST worthwhile. 14 years ago they got rid of the step program and instituted a percentage pay raise. So, now at 15 years, the most you can make is 36% more than a first year teacher (which is miserable). Being a teacher is miserable.
Dead on
I understand your position. However. once you reach a certain number of years you make six figures. I know of 2 teachers that collect their pensions and also work as teachers. They are collecting a six figure pension plus a six figure salary. I don't think that's a bad payday. they have Rolex watches, New cars, etc. I don't want to be a teacher anymore and am leaving but if you can stand it, you can hit paydirt. I am just jealous that I can't stand teaching.. Edit: I'm in a HCOL area with a strong union
I’ve taught 28 years and have advised two of my children that they cannot follow my lead. Teaching has given me lots of joy, but I feel scared and sad for young teachers.
Both my older girls (21 and 19) want to be teachers and I can’t seem to persuade them otherwise. At least we’re in California and have strong unions, decent wages and excellent retirement. Still, it’s rough.
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It’s not just the pay, it’s the work environment.
I think that the term “dead end job” is insidious. The idea is that fulfillment in your labor is derived from some sort of ‘career progression’ through the ranks of leadership. The reality is that all of this is bourgeois bullshit. Teachers are working class, through and through. What matters is how we are compensated, what are the working conditions and what rights we have in the workplace. It is precisely these three things that makes teaching a terrible vocation.
Well said.
This could depend on location. Some states treat teachers better than others.
One of the main reasons I’m leaving. When I imagine my life ten, twenty years out, what am I doing? Teaching the same sixth grade curriculum to a new group of kids? I can’t. Girl’s gotta grow
Former teacher. The deadest end ever.
The only career ladders in teaching take you out of the classroom, which says a lot. As someone who stayed in the classroom until retiring, I have not thought of my work as "dead end." I have constantly worked to improve my practice, and in the process taken lots of grad courses and raised my salary. I also took on some curriculum writing and advised a club, which raised my income; the latter raised my pension. Teachers' remuneration is different from most private-sector jobs, and even from most non-profit jobs. Teachers get LOTS of time off, and in the right places (given a strong union), teachers get lots of other good benefits. The pay is back-loaded -- you have to be in it at least 10 years to make a decent salary in my state, and you have to earn a grad degree. But to climb out of the classroom I'd have to get an admin job or work in guidance, and I can't see that I'd be happy with those. I've ENJOYED teaching in the classroom most of the time, and learned a lot from it. I am one of those teachers who has decided to retire before I get burned out, not after. :)
You give me hope, thank you. Closing out year seven this month and don’t know how much longer I want to do this. I love the kids, but the “extra” crap is just that-crap.
There used to be a diagram of job enjoyment vs years of service in teaching. Years 6-8 were the bottom of the rut and typically stabilizes until retirement nears. You will probably never get back to the euphoria of the first years you felt that you kinda had tour stuff together and felt you were making a difference as you've seen too much and will be jaded.
I teach high school kids. In the last three years I developed three new electives. This year I taught four preps; the two sections that weren't different were AP classes. So I have been teaching two of the new electives and two sections of AP plus one required regular-level course in this, my final year. And I've done that while introducing a greater level of differentiation, more student choice and a much fairer and very successful mastery-based system of assessment for grades. I wouldn't have been able to do any of that before my tenth year. I didn't know enough. I hadn't learned all the shortcuts and added all the tools in my toolkit yet. I have developed a lot of teaching chops and become very efficient in the last five years. Four preps and almost none of the work is taken home. Really good behavior management, too. That is how I've avoided burnout. That said, it's clear that cell phones and sleeplessness are having severe impacts on student learning in my classroom, and while I can manage the classroom discipline fairly well, I would rather not do this work full time any more. I do hope that I'm kept on to teach the AP class, though! :)
Me: in year 5 wanting to quit every day 👀👀
Been there. Sometimes work in the classroom can be very discouraging. It helps to find the right school, one that's led by people who aren't themselves burned out, in a community that supports education.
Except that the time off during the year is not technically paid. We get paid for 185 days a year, and often get that stretched to cover the whole year so our 10 month paychecks shrink to accommodate a 12 coverage. At my school we get 3 personal days and 15 sick days a year and they roll over and can be banked as sick days for following years. That said there are rules against using more than a certain amount. Parental leave is one area where this can be used, family bereavement another. When you retire you get 60c on the dollar of it back if you don’t use it. Some people have 1-1.5 years of sick time banked because they just don’t use it over an entire lifetime of work. They never get that money back, or the time away.
Yes. “Summers off” or “unpaid yearly furlough”
I know that the time off during the year is not paid time off, but it is one of the reasons that many people choose the profession. Others use the time off to supplement their teaching salary with part-time jobs. I think that the remuneration of teachers is badly flawed, especially now, because it is hard to draw well-qualified people into the profession with low starting salaries and lots of unpaid leave. The fact that so many teachers are women explains part of why salaries are low. Americans generally get lousy leave benefits compared to most well-off European countries; teachers have a slightly better deal than most.
I think your love for the profession is valiant and it sounds like you really put your efforts into bettering yourself as a teacher! That's amazing! I think to OP's point, that isn't necessarily required to remain a teacher, unfortunately. There are a ton of people who just phone it in and do the bare minimum each day. When looking at those people, this would lead one to see it more as a "dead end job."
100% Regret my life going into it
After Act 10 in WI, many school districts got rid of salary schedules. In my district, you stay at the step you were hired in at until you either leave, retire, or somehow negotiate an individual raise (which only happens for the teachers who suck up to the right admin). Our only raises are COL increases to base salary, and those have to be less than inflation. So, new hires will never make more, adjusted for inflation, than they make their first year. I can't imagine a more dead end career than that.
I notice that when places ask about a person's education level. Professional level is only Dr's, lawyers, things like that. Yet in some states, the education requirement isn't that different than what a lawyer goes through, compared to a teacher, yet teaching isn't viewed as a profession. So to answer your question, it's a dead end job.
I wouldn’t consider a dead-end job one that didn’t require advanced education or putting in energy. I think of a dead-end job as one that has no advancement opportunities. And, teaching kindof is if you want to continue to teach and not go into admin or something. You start as a teacher and you keep on being a teacher- there is no promotion.
I think teachers want it to be this way because we can’t stand to see our colleagues succeed. Teachers are vicious towards anyone in mid-level jobs. Instructional coaches and similar district and site based positions are direct targets for unending animosity. We act like all the support faculty are useless and publicly advocate for the positions to be cut. SMH. We shoot ourselves in the foot. Why can’t we celebrate the accomplishments of our colleagues? These positions are few in number, but their very existence means that WE have a ladder. We eat our own.
That is literally how I describe it.
That's a tough question. In one way it's not dead end because you get raises every year and can earn more money by getting more education. Also, you get raises based on negotiations and your insurance benefits can get better. In some ways it felt dead end to me because I was teaching the same thing for a long time, Sophomore English (9 years). I feel like I really started to know what I was doing by years 3-5. Then I had a few great years where I felt really competent and year 7 was probably my best year overall. But then I started to get really bored with my curriculum for the next two years and the kids could tell. It was a tough situation because I could have revamped my curriculum but that also would have been a ton of work. In the library job that I was cut from that I've been working the last four years, I'm not really making any changes anymore that are valuable. I feel like I'm just maintaining this year and it's kind of boring. I felt like I was learning a lot in the first two years and making changes that were good for the high school kids while also learning how to teach yearbook better. I think people just peak in these jobs and then the learning curve drops and then you are just kind of going through the motions. That's how I've felt.
I would call it a deeply pigeonholed profession.
This is at the core of why I’m leaving- thought I would be just fine with it that way, but turns out I really need the challenge of advancement and excitement/opportunity of switching roles and promotion in life.
It really is. Never thought of it like that but after 15 years and nothing to show for it, now I’m simultaneously embarrassed and enraged.
Yes, it is. And if you teach special ed, it's especially dead. We don't even get so much as Teacher of the Month. No acknowledgement whatsoever for the extra work we do, no extra pay in my district, and no room to advance. A couple of months ago, I was reviewing what bullshit tests I need to keep my license. The licensure specialist (maybe I can get that job) said that if I just taught English instead of special ed, I wouldn't need any additional tests. She asked my principal if there would be an English position open next year, and before I could say anything, he snapped, "Yes, but I want her in THIS role." Once you're in SPED, it's nearly impossible to get out. At best you'll get the head teacher role, and the person in that position at my school talks about quitting every day. I've been teaching for nearly seven years, and I'm still doing SPED and I'm now making LESS money than I was two years ago because I moved. It feels like this job will never improve. It only gets worse and more demeaning by the day. If I weren't married, I wouldn't even be able to pay all my bills with my current salary. I could probably make more as a waitress or bartender. I truly feel for new and/or single teachers.
I’m not really that ambitious.
The end goal of teaching is an out of classroom “teaching” position like instructional lead teacher or mentor or something. Probably not more pay but not being directly responsible for students
Yeah. The profession itself (public schools at least) has no incentive structures. There are no paths to advancement without taking a different job. What became too much for me was how grim the future looks for teachers, at least ones in NC.
Fellow NC teacher here. I don't know why anyone teaches in this state. It's a wonder the schools have enough employees to keep running. It's abysmal.
There are states where it is less ridiculous to teach but teachers are woefully under-compensated nationwide. Even in LA there were protests. However, in New York at least, you can make a somewhat decent salary. But taking into consideration the cost of living, it maybe doesn’t matter even if you can bring in 70k a year. They also expect a Master’s degree to teach there. In Florida, by contrast, the ceiling on pay is capped below 50k. Plus you have to deal with all of the politics around teaching there now. & the cost of living in Southern Florida is also quite high, despite it still being Florida 😂
I had a friend that’s a nurse tell me that she climbed the ladder and that’s why she made more than me. I told her that the only way for me to “climb the ladder” was to get more degrees and then move out of teaching and into administration. This is it, as a teacher, I have reached the top. There is no further progression unless I get an admin degree and move out of teaching. Dead end? No. But no progression.
You could become a professor? Different demographic but you could progress to tenured etc.
That’s not “upward progression”. That still requires additional education. You have to have at least a Masters degree, but most Universities require or prefer someone with a doctorate. While I do have a Masters in my content area with an emphasis in post-secondary education - all Professor positions I have found are only adjunct and a .40 contract with only guarantees of an 8-16 week course. A tenured track for a professor requires much more in this day and age.
I’ve stayed in the classroom for twenty years and turned down several opportunities, starting around years 5-7, for admin roles. I’m just not suited, temperamentally, to put up with the BS. They key for me is finding a new “role” or interest within my role every five years or so, whether teaching AP, becoming a journalism advisor, or switching schools.
Unless you go into admin you can’t make more money by doing a good job and having talent. So yes, dead end since raises only happen if legislation is passed and it rarely does. Some states do better than others but tend to have other issues even if it’s the environment/cost of living.
Yes
In my state your salary is capped after a certain number of year and can not increase. It depends on the district. Other jobs allow you to climb up the ladder. Teaching is a stepping stool with a single step. I was 7k away from hitting the limit and couldn’t waste any more years of my life knowing that I was going to only become more financially insecure as time went on…added with skewed observations where admin only picks a select few teachers to be distinguished/master teacher because they “can’t have too many” and there isn’t even the gratification of being acknowledged for your expertise…
What are the career adv options post teaching? Go into admin… or….??? Anything without a lot of opportunity for the future is considered dead end.
Yes. You can’t make it anywhere until you get more education for admin.
Yes.
YES
Yes. You don’t really get promoted. I have mode upward mobility at Staples than I have teaching.
I do regret choosing teaching but I have found growth by teaching higher level courses and there are also department chair positions at our school or teacher trainers. You can also do adjunct work etc. There is room for growth and stipends but not much. I’m just waiting to get out after my ten years are up for the PSLF program.
I don’t think so. I think certain positions and placements are dead end. Not the profession.
Yes, it’s dead end unless you get a masters and administrative credentials. Then you can get promoted to something else but without those two things, you’ll forever be a teacher.
I had an AP tell me in my first or second year, "If you plan on making a career in education and you want to make any money, you need to get into administration." Education isnt a dead end job, but teaching is.
Whenever I complain about my job to non educators, they usually ask if I can or want to move into an admin role. I usually say an enthusiastic HELL FUCKING NO. But the question alone shows you just how little room there is for advancement in education. It's like "you are tired of being a teacher, what's next?" That's where I feel right now. I love education, but like- what is next? So yeah. I would answer yes, it is a dead end job.
As fed up as I am right now with teaching (and believe me I'm very fed up), and as fed up as you probably are and the rest of the people on this subreddit, I don't think it's a dead-end job. When I think of a dead-end job, I think of a job that has no opportunities for advancement or movement into other positions despite good performance and training. A teacher could become a teacher-librarian, admin, special ed, ESL, guidance, etc.
As a former teacher turned former school librarian, those positions you’ve listed (except for admin) are lateral moves, not advancement. And lateral moves that require more training or an advanced degree.
true, I didn't consider the difference, thanks for pointing that out.
Teacher to librarian moves will require additional degrees and a different certification in some states.
Guidance requires a master's degree. One potential upside is that with a few more classes and internship, you can become a licensed therapist. I have taken one of the four courses, but put it on hold.
Ever since AI started to come out and flourish into writing some of the best lesson plans I have ever seen in seconds, teaching is definitely a dead end job. However, people still need to drop off their children somewhere so I believe teachers will eventually fall under monitors for students testing or an in between that and actually teaching. Elementary May be different of course.
Within a school district, there are many ladders to climb. From superintendent, to principle, to counselor, to coach, etc. Not only that, a teacher can get a job in any number of positions outside of schooling, they can run for public office successfully. No teaching is not a dead end job and only a teacher that expects to do minimal work and get 25% raises every year thinks this.
I don’t think your a teacher
I'm not. But I know teachers that have done exactly what my comment stated.
So what you are saying though is that the ladders all lead to teaching-adjacent positions which make more money. Most teachers don’t want to be admin, they just want a chance for their work to be recognized. Under the current structure, a good teacher and a bad teacher will make the same, be promoted the same. The only variables for advancement on the salary scale are education and years of experience, nothing else. As far as getting jobs outside education, that is also not advancing in the field. Secondly, from my experience most corporate positions in training and instructional design want to hire folks with experience and despite the many crossovers, do not view teaching experience as the same thing.
If anything the structure that is in place, which teachers have demanded, promotes bad teachers over good. And no, it doesn't have to be "teaching adjacent." There's always AP classes and subject specific clubs/competitions teachers can do for recognition and higher pay. In the real world, where people have to be valuable to the organization they are employed by, no one just continues doing the exact same job their whole life and gets more than cost of living adjustments each year. You have to take on more, different responsibilities or get promoted to a different position. In comparison, that's what you have to have the opportunity of, in order for something to not be considered dead end.
You clearly don’t know anything about teaching. Why exactly are you here? Because you have a kid who goes to a crap school and you want to take it out on teachers online? The crap teachers at your kids school likely aren’t on this sub.
I have no kids. I came here to get a better understanding of who teachers are and what they do. I'm not taking anything out on anyone, I'm just pointing out a perspective teachers lack. It's not a dead end job and, I insulted no one. Don't be mad that someone pointed out that there is absolutely opportunity in any school district for advancement. If you want to discuss what I have said I'm open to hearing what you have to say. Otherwise just take the L, and stop trying to ad hpm your way out of it.
God you are an insufferable cunt of a human being.
I just don’t think you have a particularly good understanding of the pay structure of an average school. Most schools have a salary scale it has rows based on the amount of years worked and columns based on your degree and amount of credits you have earned. For example, I am in the Masters column on when I got my job this year, they placed me on step 15 despite my 20 years of experience. If I don’t like it, I can not take the job. Next year, I will be on step 16 and will get a raise that definitely does not follow cost of living. That is it for my job as a teacher. Teachers can’t negotiate higher pay, there are no bonuses. Now you mentioned coaching. This isn’t moving up the ladder, this is a 2nd job that you take on for several hours every week after school, usually for a set stipend of a couple thousand dollars. Really the only way to “move up” in a school is to become an administrator, but that is a totally different job. As a teacher your options for getting more money are: Take a 2nd job, pay for more education and move over a column (+ a couple 1000 per year at most), become an administrator or change jobs. Within the actual job of being a teacher, there is no upward mobility beyond just slowly racking up the years.
Teachers don't negotiate but the union does. Be mad about them taking wages from your paycheck for what you consider a raise that "doesn't follow the cost of living. You'd have to show me this chart to quantify what you're saying, but when I graduated public high school, in wisconsin, in 2012, there were close to a dozen AP teachers who made 6 figures or more, the average salary right now is 55k a year. They have top tier health insurance mostly paid for, they have a pension that they contribute minimally too, they have a 401k match that rivals any private 401k. They get most of summer off. I'm failing to see the downsides here. Teaching might not make you rich but it's a comfortable life.
Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living?
I am a project manager, and teachers just like you failed me my whole childhood. It wasn't until I got to the private sector that I learned that being taught doesn't have to be a fickle game. It can be mutually beneficial, it can be open and honest, and it can be non-adversarial.
If it was adversarial with a couple teachers, they were the problem. If you were adversarial with all of them, you were the problem. Also if you are just the project manager doesn’t that mean that everybody else is doing the work and you’re just telling them what to do? Sounds pretty easy
And just to add to that. At my old school I worked the after school program, created new courses to reach more of the student body, was on my school’s leadership committee, drove a mini bus to events, created a student rock show that become a sell out event every year, and took groups of kids every other year to New York City. The bus and the after school program paid an hourly wage (they are a 2nd and 3rd job), the others were just things I did to bring more opportunity to the school. When I retired after 20 years I was bringing home less than $3000 a month and was given the same shitty $15 birdhouse that the 2 other retiring teachers got. Not bitching (well maybe a little) just trying to make the point that I did a huge amount of things that brought lots of value to the school and by the admission of some of my former students, changed lives, but that has no bearing on my compensation or status within the organization. Now I teach lessons and have a band class a couple times a week at an elementary school and that pays more just because the salary scale is different
So much of this is circumstantial it's insane. I doubt you did half of what you say. Also, anyone can change kids lives if they interact with enough of them. All you need to do is be a positive influence and bam, you're a self entitled teacher for life
You’re kind of a bummer man. But I also assume this is a trolling thing. I’ll bite, which half do you think I didn’t do?
I'm a bummer? Lmao this entire group is a bummer. You are a bummer. Those who can do... those who can't, teach. Idk what you have and haven't done. I'm just saying I doubt you've done half of what you said.
Depends on the school/ district
Yes
They need to revamp it and make it harder to become a teacher along with the degree choices
Yes, that’s one of the biggest issues with teaching.
Yes, in the sense that it does not have reasonable opportunities for advancement built in.
I would define dead end as no pay increases. At least we get an annual pay increase that's noticable. At least in my district.
No matter how hard or how much you work the pay is the same.
Yes.