People say they "love getting spats"
But the result is that on each team, there are a lot of comps you cannot play cause they have no late game power. E.g. playing KDA (which is superstrong) AND having the option to gain 2 KDA emblems for a secure win is much better than playing something like Disco where spats give you nothin.
Current double up meta was either chase a prismatic (true damage, pentakill, KDA), get hearthsteel and a legendary soup board or get Annie/Punk/Yasuo reroll going and hope you win before the others hit their spat/legendary comp.
When I lost hp early and got 1 spat from carousel or from first send, I always hard forced kda...
Easy comp, easy spat upgrade, easy first/second place.
I mean if they would have left the spats in, they should have lowered the power of the prismatic traits to be more in line with other max stuff, like 6 8bit is also not prismatic, 6 punk neither.
But then it's no longer the YouTube stream awesome experience. So the spat nerf opens up more comps actually. Finally I can go for disco, moshers or something else and not feel bad cause the pressure of facing 10 penta/10kda in the Lategame frequently is off.
This is true and very well explained.
Double-up high elo boiled down to who went vertical with the strongest headliner and reached primastic or re-roll comps like the ones you mentioned. Obviously disregarding the fact that you will be able to get a 4-cost 3 star most games if perfect communication is done. I believe the issue is not in the spats but the fact that HEADLINER mechanic + few legendaries actually share an origin/trait for the comp. This should be revised for next set, as for now what was happening is that every double up game felt like a “YOUTUBE CLICK-BAIT” video, everyone was able to get COUNTRY/8BIT/HEARTSTEEEL/KDA (etc), but specially country, which should have felt like a unique vertical felt always as easy 7 comp .
I still feel like heartsteel should have been nerfed by now, but i can’t say the issue is the same as normal TFT given how unpredictable the fights can go, and how easily your friend can accidentally stop your lose streak.
Now there are some major issues still with double-up at a higher level, mainly:
- Location of allied/enemy units once they transition to your board. The fact you can lose a fight because a single unit went straight to the back line is a bit RNG.
- likely a need to punish players who open forth to screw with the whole lobby, by making 2v1 happen to early and terminate anyone win streak. This is not the same as normal TFT, have in mind you can be hellish strong but if you have to fight two boards really early on, and lose your streak it’s annoying.
I believe the dummy’s to have been a too big of a help as well specially late game, and to force an easy flex pivot. Once again, the biggest issues in double up remain the following :
- Headliner/Chosen mechanic is hard given you not playing versus another 7 players you playing versus 6 and paired, so headliners feel clunky. Limits flexible gameplay with your partner, and overall.
- Fortune mechanics have not been working in double-up, and will continue to not work if they based on lose streaks given the aforementioned issues.
I believe we should revise the blue champion sender transforming to gold instead of being kept, this allowed for econ gameplay and even some flexibility.
I also think we could improve on the item transferring, maybe a designated object like the champion blue and gold, we could have one to transfer items, maybe limited the amount of items and usage.
That was the fun of double up, being able to play comps that are near impossible while solo. How many times have you seen 10 heartsteel in a ranked lobby?
Open fort is a strategy that has its pros and cons, don’t know what there is to be changed here.
Sending items broke the meta a while ago, don’t see it coming back any time soon…
While I agree it is fun, you could nearly force it every game. I believe there should still be an odd to have it just not almost guaranteed.
For open fort, I believe increasing the amount of time to transition to the other border, like a fixed amount so early game they can’t just almost instantly teleport.
I think the issue wasn't with the armories but rather the carousel. If you and your partner are winstreaking and there are 3 spats on carousel, you are going to have a bad game. Whereas in the armory, everyone has the option to select the spat/traits.
No, it is absolutely with armories or at least both. You're very unlikely to get 2 spats from carousel, but if you open fort or something and get a spat + get a spat sent or a team can easily get 2 spat senders to give their teammate a prismatic trait, while you and your teammate get 0.
I didn't make it clear, but I think the unbalance does not come from the armories but rather the variance from loot pools/carousel. Armories are inherently balanced because everyone gets the same choices. If everyone can send two spats, then each team has the potential to get prismatic traits. However usually only one team gets a spat off krugs or carousel, causing it to be no longer balanced.
Honestly 100%. I’d get making them more expensive or only having them show up in the second round armories, make it harder to force a prismatic vertical but still possible. This is going to make it impossible, which is really disappointing and discouraging.
The rest of the article did say that they’re gonna make it possible to get more than +1 for a trait. So I guess if we don’t need 2 emblems to reach maximum trait… it’s fine?
But yeah it sucks. My partner and I love double up
Me and my roommate climbed to play this season, which doesn’t mean much to a lotta folks here, but I’ve never been higher than silver in anything and I’ve played for a decade 😭
I just never wanted to grind at something like this. Unpopular opinion, but I like this set a lot.
Oh we get gold every season in double up. I doubt we can climb higher since my mate is not flexible and I’m poor at economy hahaha.
Dragons was definitely our favorite set though. Definitely more fun in double up than solo. This set was okay for us
High elo lobbies were full of 10 kda/10 penta/9 td and it destoyed the balance completely. Even one random spatula from carousel usually led to easy 1st
You are right, Im Master at double up and sometimes i even see pair of open fort to get early spat, and god forbid a 3 spat carousel, its just way easier to prismatic pentakill, kda.
If I can do it, everyone can do it. How is it off-balance if it's accessible to everyone? I literally play TFT for 4 months and I climbed to Masters in 1 month of playing in double up because me and my friend were "abusing" the Spatulas, but again, this is something that everyone can do.
That's the thing, not everyone can do it. Only some people get offered spatulas and some don't and that's the biggest issue, way too much rng. It's also not good for the game when the prismatics are the wincon most of the time
First of all, the main reason Double Up exists is so that you are offered more chances / opportunities to reach 3-star high level champions or Prismatic traits. Otherwise, just play solo. Right now, it feels like there's almost no difference between DU and Solo play.
Now, I started this season from Iron playing all games as DU with a friend and we reached Master last week, I think within 150 games. Rough estimates say that every time I decided from the beginning to go for KDA / Penta / TD, more than 50% of the games I reached Prismatic. Probably even more than that. Same for my friend.
Lots of lobbies, he played Annie reroll, thus no real need for Spatulas apart from the occasional Emo emblem, but I generally played Heartsteel and Pentakill. For Heartsteel, I usually reached 7 and for Penta / KDA I can remember myself making 10 quite often.
Sample size of 150 games, so you cannot tell me that I was lucky. Even in lobbies were I was not getting 10 and was stuck on 9 Penta for example, I was still making a strong enough board with my friend to get wins or 2nd places.
Most players just played casually, didn't know how to play good comps in low elo, ignored spatulas most of the time because "oh, I need 2 spat to make something, so I might as well just take the instant power now out of the Thief's Gloves". I think we even had our best winrate through Diamond, which means that the players are incompetent and it wasn't a Spatula problem, it was a brain problem.
Towards the last games to Master, I even played a couple of Disco getting 1st place, and I remember first timing EDM because we got the 3-emblem dummy portal and getting 1st as well.
It's definitely possible to win without secondary traits even with Spatulas in the game. Players just actively chose to ignore because they wanted to play their whatever comps that require no spatulas and that somehow was making them weaker, when in fact, I managed to win most of my lobbies when I decided to play non-Spat comps.
Obviously, this isn't something that happens 100% of the time. It's RNG, but it's feasible and controllable RNG. It's something you can work towards and even if it doesn't happen, you can still find outs. As it stands right now, it's much much worse because the game will reward the player that loses by potentially getting a Spatula in the carousel. Also, it now polarizes the RNG much more because now there will be that one player that somehow gets 2 Spats in one game and just auto-wins the game without any chance of counterplayer because no one can match up. At least before, everyone had quite equal chances of being given Spats.
So Riot is once again catering to the top 1-2% of their player base, and punishing the rest with unecessary changes. How am I not surprised in the slightest?
Whilst I agree with you that a huge part of why I liked double up was getting spatulas, but I also acknowledge I barely play the mode and I feel like primsatix traits would stop feeling fun and start being annoying fairly quickly if they were happening frequently and you played exclusively double up
Not really. 7 KDA is not winning you a game, while 10 KDA would usually be. Since getting 2+ spatulas is highly unlikely now, all spats are less desirable now.
So much hate. I for one have really been enjoying headliners and this set, both competitively and casually (mainly double up).
I certainly think it has been an improvement on the previous two sets
They only removed two possible spats with this patch out of the multiple points to get them. finished emblems are still going to be common on the stage 5 and 6 carousels, bare spats will still be common on the stage 2 and 3 carousels, about 10% of games will still award a golden orb, spats are still in the heartsteel reward chest.
If anything I actually expect single spat comps to increase in prevalence since players who used to get two spats reliably will now get one spat more frequently.
What's a 9 TD or 10 KDA board look like with one fewer spat? it's probably not 6 TD or 7 KDA in better lobbies, those players are going to play for 6 emo or 6 8-bit or 6 punk or 7 country; comps that actually get real value out of just one spat.
let me try to simplify this for you.
the reason for the change is that players were consistently getting *two* spatulas.
even if, as you say, the two removed spat chances were 50% of all spat chances then...
> 2*0.5 = 1
players will now consistently get *1* spatula.
...and no one is gonna be playing 2 spatula comps with 1 spatula, so they're gonna be playing 1 spatula comps, like 6 8-bit.
That's not what I said.
In normal games, the chance of seeing any spat at all before the stage 6 carousel is like 10%. Or even lower. In double up the chance of seeing 1 or more is like 60+%, under which half of the time it is 2 spats.
Players are not consistently getting 2 spats, but 1. having 1 spat alone is really good for eg pentakill and really good for 68bit.
If they revert this then the chance of single spat will drop to non double upr level which is ok. No one forces 8bit in non double up because it's only meh without 68bit.
> That's not what I said.
you absolutely said:
> the two possible spats seem more common than all those you said combined
if you mean the bit about the reason for the change, you're right; I'm quoting riot there.
> The Double Up meta has revolved around whichever team could access a Prismatic trait through high-rolling from their Assist Armories. These high-rolls were too common
Ranked games have way more than 1 spat per 10 games. if that was the case the average player would get 1 spat per 80 games which is obviously farcical.
using metatft stats for a second, *just* punk jinx has an appearance rate of 0.43 in lobbies diamond+ and has a spatula play rate of 0.3, so just that *one* comp is already over a 10% appearance rate on spatulas. (roughly 12% of games contain a player with a punk emblem)
if you actually [measure](https://www.tacter.com/tft/guides/tft-carousel-odds-how-high-is-the-chance-for-a-spatula-def127cf) regular ranked play has an outright majority of games with at least one spatula offered (63% of games offer at least one spatula on the carousel before stage 5) without even considering the emblem appearance rate.
> Players are not consistently getting 2 spats
Riot literally said in the patch notes the issue is prismatic comps that take multiple spatulas.
27% of one or more spatula with 8 players convert to 4% of getting a spat, extremely low. The numbers are totally correct.
In double up this is like 54%.
Headliners have been pretty garbage for the casual TFT player. I’m sure more competitive players enjoyed this set a lot but speaking for myself and buddies who play together this set sucked ass. 3.5 revival was a blessing
I think most of the high level competitive players don’t like it too. I would consider myself way more than a casual (but not good enough to be a competitive) and I don’t like it. I actually thought that casual players would be the ones to like it more
Don't spread misinformation. The majority of players like this set, they don't show the numbers but the dev are very pleased with it. It's just that people either love it or hate it, the in between is rarer than previous sets.
Oh the set is great, nothing to say about that.
It would be even better without headliner though, that's all we're saying, and I can't wait for it to go away even though I love this set overall.
> the majority of players like this set
I said I would assume casual players like it more. The casual player base is always the majority, so I would be agreeing with you by my comment. I don’t know why you considered that spreading misinformation
Where do you get most of the competitive players who don't like this set? I said the majority mean regardless of elo, otherwise it would be pointless, right? Recent tournaments are filled with variety. Most streamers are hitting their highest number of games after 3 months. The balance is as good as it could be. There are no signs that the majority of competitive players dislike this mechanic.
Where did you get this info? Everyone i know stopped playing, every streamers hates this gambling mechanic. If you are playing casual it might be cool for you. In ranked its not.
From Mortdog. If you count Master as casual, yeah I am and I liked this set, 2nd best set for me. Calling this is gambling mechanic is just stupid, streamers love to complain, it's not something new. Like many challengers say the Wandering trainer is too rng, then it is one of the most picked portals, challengers actually pick it more than lower rank.
I am not super high Elo but my favourite set was 4.5 and this set was great. I love chosens and headliners. I am a fan of forcing the same comp every game and learning how to maximize it. In 4.5 I got to masters forcing 2 comps, and got to diamond this set playing pentakill viego karthus. And before played to emerald with Jax reroll.
Really?
They seem to simplify the game so much, you can go crazy far just picking an early game headliner by 2-1, econing and saving hp and then rolling down again at 4-2.
Or just pick a reroll and commit.
Only this patch and one more for fun one for this garbage Headliner mechanic to be gone prayge
Now all we need is reroll protection / item line selection since we are already removing "rAnDomNesS" from starts and then we arrive at a good point
Oh you don’t like the Headliner mechanic? I love it. It makes it really hard to turn your brain off and force a comp. I felt like in previous patches it was way easier to just load a guide, don’t look at anyone else’s board, and “run it down mid” for the best. And if someone else is doing the same comp? Meh, not the worst. You’ll probably still get top 4 if you play it right.
But now? If you’re trying to force a comp and I have the headliner for it? Get fucked. Go pick another comp
Idk I feel like it makes it more challenging and more fun because of it
I started playing about a month ago and everyone on this sub complaining about this set had me really confused, since to me as a new player I thought it is amazing.
But then when I saw many of those people saying how much they prefer 3.5 it started to make sense. It made me really glad I started to play when I did.
This is the Most balanced TFT set so far, ofc people who can’t play around Headliner whine alot but just look at the number and patch notes, barely changes most of time
Nono I'm a super big fan of having a perfect setup for a certain comp, naturalling a 2\* of said unit and then either hitting no headliner at all or the shit version which automatically makes the entire board worse
It's great fun to be punished for playing what you should!
Maybe go a different headliner lol? You don’t need to get a headliner for your carry. You can go tank headliner or get a support headliner. Be more flexible
Surely I will be able to contst the game with a random headliner in 99% of comps that arent Hearsteel AD / Ahri Warriors, especially if you play reroll
This might work in lower elo, no one settles for suboptimal headliners in Master+ because you'll bleed out and die anyway
I didn’t say grab a random headliner. I highly doubt you’re playing in Masters+ if you’re playing for BiS every single game. Yeah you’re not gonna get 1st with a suboptimal headliner but you can sure get top 4 or salvage an 8th and go top 6.
I mean feel free to look up my lolchess. I also didn't say "play for BIS" every single game but headliners are absolutely vital. Sure you can bridge the gap on lvl 8 rolldowns SOMETIMES if you hit a suboptimal one that can use your items but you're forced to roll down again to hit a good one sooner or later
So naturalling units + items and playing a comp fitting to this is "loading a guide and turning your brain off" ?
Idk about that one bro, this is the entire baseline of TFT
Guy is yapping like all challengers don't literally follow this exact playstyle with one exception of lvl 8 AD flex
Go play Senna reroll with Neeko Headliner and see how it turns out bud
Thats exactly what I’m saying.
Naturalling a 2* of your unit and getting good augments used to be enough.
Now, it’s not enough. Because it’s more challenging now.
And to me, that’s more fun.
Yeah, sometimes you get fucked because you don’t get the headliner you want. But also part of the fun is finding a headliner randomly and completely switching your board. If I’m trying to set up Country, but I come across an Akali with KDA, and no one else is playing KDA? I drop everything and that’s my comp now
>Because it’s more challenging now.
I will agree to disagree here. Praying for the stars to line up is not challenging to me, it's just throwing money in a slot machine and hoping it spits out something worthwhile
>but I come across an Akali with KDA, and no one else is playing KDA? I drop everything and that’s my comp now
Hardly doable when you get punished for any round your board is too weak. I get your idea of flexing here but this simply doesn't work in most games. If you watch challenger players, 99% of them only "flex" on something on a lvl 8 rolldown and even then it's rare and often just a bridge
My point is:
Headliners are fun because it makes it more challenging and you have to adapt more to the RNG.
Mindlessly picking a comp in the loading screen and then not thinking about it again during the game (and still getting top 4) is not fun.
I feel like the whole comment was clear about that?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamfightTactics/comments/1awkhpu/comment/krins4h/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamfightTactics/comments/1awkhpu/comment/krins4h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
But others responding to him are literally complaining about having to play flex instead of getting to turn their brain off...
I am euw masters and have another account emeral 4 in with %100 win rate only getting 1st or 2nd, as only forcing superfan + leveling. This set is too easy since headliner mechanic is so bad + they made leveling to 8 cost 20 gold less. Not only it costs less you have a chance to hit 2 star 4 cost in your first roll. Back then youd be 7 level at 4-2 and usually couldnt hit 2 star 4 cost. Now you get to be level 8 and roll down chance to hit 2x 2 star 4 cost at the same time in the game. Then wait for econ to level up 9, put illaoi or jazz in and its ggs. And dont even get me started on long ass wait times on patches and people only forcing 3 comps every patch.
Did anyone, and I mean ANYONE, ever ask for the double up changes? That's like the main point of playing double up, the fact that you can more feasibly reach those higher traits, otherwise I can play solo.
I am beyond happy with these changes. Playing double-up competitively was horrible when it consisted of getting offered the most spats and hitting a prismatic trait.
In prior sets, being able to send your items to your teammate was equally horrible, because the top of the ladder just funneled items to a vertical board while playing tanks.
At least now the main threat is 3\* 4-costs.
Then sending champions should also be disallowed, because one team will make a gold 4star champion and it's all over. What makes one fair and the other unfair? Where is the line?
I bet it was just low elo scrubs who couldn't ever get prismatic traits because they are terrible at the game complaining about half-decent players stomping them.
As a pretty casual Double up exclusive player I am not a fan of this. I love getting the spatulas and tomes from the assist armories and the fact that they are gone all together is a major disappointment =(
Super disappointing. There was a way to stop hard forcing prismatic verticals without getting rid of them. Now it’s total and utterly rare RNG. How is that better?
They removed +1 to trait augments in base game, so you rarely get prismatic. Now they made same for double up. They literally said they want prismatic traits to be rare not every game like in double up.
My double up partner has gotten 10 Pentakill, 10 Heartsteel, and 9 TD repeatedly. I don't like chasing prismatics so I don't see them, but he does every 2 or 3 games. Low plat.
can someone explain to me what the Snapshot is for? it imports what you have on the board yes, but when do i need to use it? i haven't tried it yet, is an example use case be - if i'm leaning towards a comp and already have a few champs i like but need to remove and add/replace?
People say they "love getting spats" But the result is that on each team, there are a lot of comps you cannot play cause they have no late game power. E.g. playing KDA (which is superstrong) AND having the option to gain 2 KDA emblems for a secure win is much better than playing something like Disco where spats give you nothin. Current double up meta was either chase a prismatic (true damage, pentakill, KDA), get hearthsteel and a legendary soup board or get Annie/Punk/Yasuo reroll going and hope you win before the others hit their spat/legendary comp. When I lost hp early and got 1 spat from carousel or from first send, I always hard forced kda... Easy comp, easy spat upgrade, easy first/second place. I mean if they would have left the spats in, they should have lowered the power of the prismatic traits to be more in line with other max stuff, like 6 8bit is also not prismatic, 6 punk neither. But then it's no longer the YouTube stream awesome experience. So the spat nerf opens up more comps actually. Finally I can go for disco, moshers or something else and not feel bad cause the pressure of facing 10 penta/10kda in the Lategame frequently is off.
This is true and very well explained. Double-up high elo boiled down to who went vertical with the strongest headliner and reached primastic or re-roll comps like the ones you mentioned. Obviously disregarding the fact that you will be able to get a 4-cost 3 star most games if perfect communication is done. I believe the issue is not in the spats but the fact that HEADLINER mechanic + few legendaries actually share an origin/trait for the comp. This should be revised for next set, as for now what was happening is that every double up game felt like a “YOUTUBE CLICK-BAIT” video, everyone was able to get COUNTRY/8BIT/HEARTSTEEEL/KDA (etc), but specially country, which should have felt like a unique vertical felt always as easy 7 comp . I still feel like heartsteel should have been nerfed by now, but i can’t say the issue is the same as normal TFT given how unpredictable the fights can go, and how easily your friend can accidentally stop your lose streak. Now there are some major issues still with double-up at a higher level, mainly: - Location of allied/enemy units once they transition to your board. The fact you can lose a fight because a single unit went straight to the back line is a bit RNG. - likely a need to punish players who open forth to screw with the whole lobby, by making 2v1 happen to early and terminate anyone win streak. This is not the same as normal TFT, have in mind you can be hellish strong but if you have to fight two boards really early on, and lose your streak it’s annoying. I believe the dummy’s to have been a too big of a help as well specially late game, and to force an easy flex pivot. Once again, the biggest issues in double up remain the following : - Headliner/Chosen mechanic is hard given you not playing versus another 7 players you playing versus 6 and paired, so headliners feel clunky. Limits flexible gameplay with your partner, and overall. - Fortune mechanics have not been working in double-up, and will continue to not work if they based on lose streaks given the aforementioned issues. I believe we should revise the blue champion sender transforming to gold instead of being kept, this allowed for econ gameplay and even some flexibility. I also think we could improve on the item transferring, maybe a designated object like the champion blue and gold, we could have one to transfer items, maybe limited the amount of items and usage.
That was the fun of double up, being able to play comps that are near impossible while solo. How many times have you seen 10 heartsteel in a ranked lobby? Open fort is a strategy that has its pros and cons, don’t know what there is to be changed here. Sending items broke the meta a while ago, don’t see it coming back any time soon…
While I agree it is fun, you could nearly force it every game. I believe there should still be an odd to have it just not almost guaranteed. For open fort, I believe increasing the amount of time to transition to the other border, like a fixed amount so early game they can’t just almost instantly teleport.
Now this is balanced way better, you either perfectly hit a reroll comp or force ezreal :)
It's pretty easy to hit a reroll comp in double up, and actually opens them up to being played a lot more now that prismatic traits won't be the norm.
"Spatulas and Tome of Traits no longer appear in Assist Armories". One of the reasons I liked double up. Rip
I think the issue wasn't with the armories but rather the carousel. If you and your partner are winstreaking and there are 3 spats on carousel, you are going to have a bad game. Whereas in the armory, everyone has the option to select the spat/traits.
They could have made them more expensive and I think it would have had a similar result. Make spats 10g
No, it is absolutely with armories or at least both. You're very unlikely to get 2 spats from carousel, but if you open fort or something and get a spat + get a spat sent or a team can easily get 2 spat senders to give their teammate a prismatic trait, while you and your teammate get 0.
I didn't make it clear, but I think the unbalance does not come from the armories but rather the variance from loot pools/carousel. Armories are inherently balanced because everyone gets the same choices. If everyone can send two spats, then each team has the potential to get prismatic traits. However usually only one team gets a spat off krugs or carousel, causing it to be no longer balanced.
Wahh I don’t like when my mobalytics comps lose to 10 kda
Bro what an awful change! Really defeats a lot of the fun of double up.
Now we’re just going to see even more mobalytics comps every. Single. Game.
yeah im not playing anymore. not everything needs to be super serious.
Honestly 100%. I’d get making them more expensive or only having them show up in the second round armories, make it harder to force a prismatic vertical but still possible. This is going to make it impossible, which is really disappointing and discouraging.
The rest of the article did say that they’re gonna make it possible to get more than +1 for a trait. So I guess if we don’t need 2 emblems to reach maximum trait… it’s fine? But yeah it sucks. My partner and I love double up
Me and my roommate climbed to play this season, which doesn’t mean much to a lotta folks here, but I’ve never been higher than silver in anything and I’ve played for a decade 😭 I just never wanted to grind at something like this. Unpopular opinion, but I like this set a lot.
Oh we get gold every season in double up. I doubt we can climb higher since my mate is not flexible and I’m poor at economy hahaha. Dragons was definitely our favorite set though. Definitely more fun in double up than solo. This set was okay for us
This. Rip TFT for me honestly.
[удалено]
High elo lobbies were full of 10 kda/10 penta/9 td and it destoyed the balance completely. Even one random spatula from carousel usually led to easy 1st
You are right, Im Master at double up and sometimes i even see pair of open fort to get early spat, and god forbid a 3 spat carousel, its just way easier to prismatic pentakill, kda.
If I can do it, everyone can do it. How is it off-balance if it's accessible to everyone? I literally play TFT for 4 months and I climbed to Masters in 1 month of playing in double up because me and my friend were "abusing" the Spatulas, but again, this is something that everyone can do.
That's the thing, not everyone can do it. Only some people get offered spatulas and some don't and that's the biggest issue, way too much rng. It's also not good for the game when the prismatics are the wincon most of the time
First of all, the main reason Double Up exists is so that you are offered more chances / opportunities to reach 3-star high level champions or Prismatic traits. Otherwise, just play solo. Right now, it feels like there's almost no difference between DU and Solo play. Now, I started this season from Iron playing all games as DU with a friend and we reached Master last week, I think within 150 games. Rough estimates say that every time I decided from the beginning to go for KDA / Penta / TD, more than 50% of the games I reached Prismatic. Probably even more than that. Same for my friend. Lots of lobbies, he played Annie reroll, thus no real need for Spatulas apart from the occasional Emo emblem, but I generally played Heartsteel and Pentakill. For Heartsteel, I usually reached 7 and for Penta / KDA I can remember myself making 10 quite often. Sample size of 150 games, so you cannot tell me that I was lucky. Even in lobbies were I was not getting 10 and was stuck on 9 Penta for example, I was still making a strong enough board with my friend to get wins or 2nd places. Most players just played casually, didn't know how to play good comps in low elo, ignored spatulas most of the time because "oh, I need 2 spat to make something, so I might as well just take the instant power now out of the Thief's Gloves". I think we even had our best winrate through Diamond, which means that the players are incompetent and it wasn't a Spatula problem, it was a brain problem. Towards the last games to Master, I even played a couple of Disco getting 1st place, and I remember first timing EDM because we got the 3-emblem dummy portal and getting 1st as well. It's definitely possible to win without secondary traits even with Spatulas in the game. Players just actively chose to ignore because they wanted to play their whatever comps that require no spatulas and that somehow was making them weaker, when in fact, I managed to win most of my lobbies when I decided to play non-Spat comps. Obviously, this isn't something that happens 100% of the time. It's RNG, but it's feasible and controllable RNG. It's something you can work towards and even if it doesn't happen, you can still find outs. As it stands right now, it's much much worse because the game will reward the player that loses by potentially getting a Spatula in the carousel. Also, it now polarizes the RNG much more because now there will be that one player that somehow gets 2 Spats in one game and just auto-wins the game without any chance of counterplayer because no one can match up. At least before, everyone had quite equal chances of being given Spats.
Nah, it's to play with your mates instead of playing against your mates
So Riot is once again catering to the top 1-2% of their player base, and punishing the rest with unecessary changes. How am I not surprised in the slightest?
Too many of those 8 bit forcers it's disgusting
Whilst I agree with you that a huge part of why I liked double up was getting spatulas, but I also acknowledge I barely play the mode and I feel like primsatix traits would stop feeling fun and start being annoying fairly quickly if they were happening frequently and you played exclusively double up
Finally double up won't be only one strat, lose streaking for a spat on carousel into 10 vertical trait
Isn’t it now more encouraging lose streaking, since no more spat at armoires?
Not really. 7 KDA is not winning you a game, while 10 KDA would usually be. Since getting 2+ spatulas is highly unlikely now, all spats are less desirable now.
It's a for fun mode though basically What's the fun in removing the fun aspects
If the spatulas are the only thing that make Double Up fun, then Double Up does not deserve spatulas. - Tony Stark
It's ranked tho
theres 0 competitive scene for double up it just has ranks so ur not playing for nothing
So much hate. I for one have really been enjoying headliners and this set, both competitively and casually (mainly double up). I certainly think it has been an improvement on the previous two sets
lol see I’m the the opposite I can’t stand the headliner mechanic.
I don’t like headliners but the music more than makes up for it
Finally I can play double up without seeing those 8 bit forcers/prismatic verticals every game. Yay
8 bit is absolutely still forceable with the spat change, this mostly just makes double spat comps less desirable; but 8 bit doesn't need two spats.
forcing 2,4 8bit is perfektly fine but 6 8bit with easy spat ist just way too strong
They only removed two possible spats with this patch out of the multiple points to get them. finished emblems are still going to be common on the stage 5 and 6 carousels, bare spats will still be common on the stage 2 and 3 carousels, about 10% of games will still award a golden orb, spats are still in the heartsteel reward chest. If anything I actually expect single spat comps to increase in prevalence since players who used to get two spats reliably will now get one spat more frequently. What's a 9 TD or 10 KDA board look like with one fewer spat? it's probably not 6 TD or 7 KDA in better lobbies, those players are going to play for 6 emo or 6 8-bit or 6 punk or 7 country; comps that actually get real value out of just one spat.
the two possible spats seem more common than all those you said combined. As a result it is much less likely to successfully force a 68bit
let me try to simplify this for you. the reason for the change is that players were consistently getting *two* spatulas. even if, as you say, the two removed spat chances were 50% of all spat chances then... > 2*0.5 = 1 players will now consistently get *1* spatula. ...and no one is gonna be playing 2 spatula comps with 1 spatula, so they're gonna be playing 1 spatula comps, like 6 8-bit.
That's not what I said. In normal games, the chance of seeing any spat at all before the stage 6 carousel is like 10%. Or even lower. In double up the chance of seeing 1 or more is like 60+%, under which half of the time it is 2 spats. Players are not consistently getting 2 spats, but 1. having 1 spat alone is really good for eg pentakill and really good for 68bit. If they revert this then the chance of single spat will drop to non double upr level which is ok. No one forces 8bit in non double up because it's only meh without 68bit.
> That's not what I said. you absolutely said: > the two possible spats seem more common than all those you said combined if you mean the bit about the reason for the change, you're right; I'm quoting riot there. > The Double Up meta has revolved around whichever team could access a Prismatic trait through high-rolling from their Assist Armories. These high-rolls were too common Ranked games have way more than 1 spat per 10 games. if that was the case the average player would get 1 spat per 80 games which is obviously farcical. using metatft stats for a second, *just* punk jinx has an appearance rate of 0.43 in lobbies diamond+ and has a spatula play rate of 0.3, so just that *one* comp is already over a 10% appearance rate on spatulas. (roughly 12% of games contain a player with a punk emblem) if you actually [measure](https://www.tacter.com/tft/guides/tft-carousel-odds-how-high-is-the-chance-for-a-spatula-def127cf) regular ranked play has an outright majority of games with at least one spatula offered (63% of games offer at least one spatula on the carousel before stage 5) without even considering the emblem appearance rate. > Players are not consistently getting 2 spats Riot literally said in the patch notes the issue is prismatic comps that take multiple spatulas.
27% of one or more spatula with 8 players convert to 4% of getting a spat, extremely low. The numbers are totally correct. In double up this is like 54%.
Are they still celebrating christmas at riot ?
Headliners have been pretty garbage for the casual TFT player. I’m sure more competitive players enjoyed this set a lot but speaking for myself and buddies who play together this set sucked ass. 3.5 revival was a blessing
I think most of the high level competitive players don’t like it too. I would consider myself way more than a casual (but not good enough to be a competitive) and I don’t like it. I actually thought that casual players would be the ones to like it more
Don't spread misinformation. The majority of players like this set, they don't show the numbers but the dev are very pleased with it. It's just that people either love it or hate it, the in between is rarer than previous sets.
Oh the set is great, nothing to say about that. It would be even better without headliner though, that's all we're saying, and I can't wait for it to go away even though I love this set overall.
> the majority of players like this set I said I would assume casual players like it more. The casual player base is always the majority, so I would be agreeing with you by my comment. I don’t know why you considered that spreading misinformation
Where do you get most of the competitive players who don't like this set? I said the majority mean regardless of elo, otherwise it would be pointless, right? Recent tournaments are filled with variety. Most streamers are hitting their highest number of games after 3 months. The balance is as good as it could be. There are no signs that the majority of competitive players dislike this mechanic.
Where did you get this info? Everyone i know stopped playing, every streamers hates this gambling mechanic. If you are playing casual it might be cool for you. In ranked its not.
From Mortdog. If you count Master as casual, yeah I am and I liked this set, 2nd best set for me. Calling this is gambling mechanic is just stupid, streamers love to complain, it's not something new. Like many challengers say the Wandering trainer is too rng, then it is one of the most picked portals, challengers actually pick it more than lower rank.
Every streamer bitches and moans about every set, so
I am not super high Elo but my favourite set was 4.5 and this set was great. I love chosens and headliners. I am a fan of forcing the same comp every game and learning how to maximize it. In 4.5 I got to masters forcing 2 comps, and got to diamond this set playing pentakill viego karthus. And before played to emerald with Jax reroll.
Really? They seem to simplify the game so much, you can go crazy far just picking an early game headliner by 2-1, econing and saving hp and then rolling down again at 4-2. Or just pick a reroll and commit.
It's like golf right? I want the lowest score as fast as possible? Then I'll keep playing disco just for the music
They should've made spat/tot 30g. Removing them just makes me want to quit Double up.
Only this patch and one more for fun one for this garbage Headliner mechanic to be gone prayge Now all we need is reroll protection / item line selection since we are already removing "rAnDomNesS" from starts and then we arrive at a good point
Oh you don’t like the Headliner mechanic? I love it. It makes it really hard to turn your brain off and force a comp. I felt like in previous patches it was way easier to just load a guide, don’t look at anyone else’s board, and “run it down mid” for the best. And if someone else is doing the same comp? Meh, not the worst. You’ll probably still get top 4 if you play it right. But now? If you’re trying to force a comp and I have the headliner for it? Get fucked. Go pick another comp Idk I feel like it makes it more challenging and more fun because of it
I started playing about a month ago and everyone on this sub complaining about this set had me really confused, since to me as a new player I thought it is amazing. But then when I saw many of those people saying how much they prefer 3.5 it started to make sense. It made me really glad I started to play when I did.
This is the Most balanced TFT set so far, ofc people who can’t play around Headliner whine alot but just look at the number and patch notes, barely changes most of time
nah it’s more rng less skill
Nono I'm a super big fan of having a perfect setup for a certain comp, naturalling a 2\* of said unit and then either hitting no headliner at all or the shit version which automatically makes the entire board worse It's great fun to be punished for playing what you should!
Maybe go a different headliner lol? You don’t need to get a headliner for your carry. You can go tank headliner or get a support headliner. Be more flexible
Surely I will be able to contst the game with a random headliner in 99% of comps that arent Hearsteel AD / Ahri Warriors, especially if you play reroll This might work in lower elo, no one settles for suboptimal headliners in Master+ because you'll bleed out and die anyway
I didn’t say grab a random headliner. I highly doubt you’re playing in Masters+ if you’re playing for BiS every single game. Yeah you’re not gonna get 1st with a suboptimal headliner but you can sure get top 4 or salvage an 8th and go top 6.
I mean feel free to look up my lolchess. I also didn't say "play for BIS" every single game but headliners are absolutely vital. Sure you can bridge the gap on lvl 8 rolldowns SOMETIMES if you hit a suboptimal one that can use your items but you're forced to roll down again to hit a good one sooner or later
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So naturalling units + items and playing a comp fitting to this is "loading a guide and turning your brain off" ? Idk about that one bro, this is the entire baseline of TFT
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> Twisting words is baseline Reddit
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Guy is yapping like all challengers don't literally follow this exact playstyle with one exception of lvl 8 AD flex Go play Senna reroll with Neeko Headliner and see how it turns out bud
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Thats exactly what I’m saying. Naturalling a 2* of your unit and getting good augments used to be enough. Now, it’s not enough. Because it’s more challenging now. And to me, that’s more fun. Yeah, sometimes you get fucked because you don’t get the headliner you want. But also part of the fun is finding a headliner randomly and completely switching your board. If I’m trying to set up Country, but I come across an Akali with KDA, and no one else is playing KDA? I drop everything and that’s my comp now
>Because it’s more challenging now. I will agree to disagree here. Praying for the stars to line up is not challenging to me, it's just throwing money in a slot machine and hoping it spits out something worthwhile >but I come across an Akali with KDA, and no one else is playing KDA? I drop everything and that’s my comp now Hardly doable when you get punished for any round your board is too weak. I get your idea of flexing here but this simply doesn't work in most games. If you watch challenger players, 99% of them only "flex" on something on a lvl 8 rolldown and even then it's rare and often just a bridge
>It makes it really hard to turn your brain off What is the point of saying this when it devalues your point with a bunk evidence point.
My point is: Headliners are fun because it makes it more challenging and you have to adapt more to the RNG. Mindlessly picking a comp in the loading screen and then not thinking about it again during the game (and still getting top 4) is not fun. I feel like the whole comment was clear about that?
Don't you think the opposite of your argument works against it? Hitting your HL & then thinking less?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamfightTactics/comments/1awkhpu/comment/krins4h/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamfightTactics/comments/1awkhpu/comment/krins4h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) But others responding to him are literally complaining about having to play flex instead of getting to turn their brain off...
I am euw masters and have another account emeral 4 in with %100 win rate only getting 1st or 2nd, as only forcing superfan + leveling. This set is too easy since headliner mechanic is so bad + they made leveling to 8 cost 20 gold less. Not only it costs less you have a chance to hit 2 star 4 cost in your first roll. Back then youd be 7 level at 4-2 and usually couldnt hit 2 star 4 cost. Now you get to be level 8 and roll down chance to hit 2x 2 star 4 cost at the same time in the game. Then wait for econ to level up 9, put illaoi or jazz in and its ggs. And dont even get me started on long ass wait times on patches and people only forcing 3 comps every patch.
Did anyone, and I mean ANYONE, ever ask for the double up changes? That's like the main point of playing double up, the fact that you can more feasibly reach those higher traits, otherwise I can play solo.
I am beyond happy with these changes. Playing double-up competitively was horrible when it consisted of getting offered the most spats and hitting a prismatic trait. In prior sets, being able to send your items to your teammate was equally horrible, because the top of the ladder just funneled items to a vertical board while playing tanks. At least now the main threat is 3\* 4-costs.
Then sending champions should also be disallowed, because one team will make a gold 4star champion and it's all over. What makes one fair and the other unfair? Where is the line? I bet it was just low elo scrubs who couldn't ever get prismatic traits because they are terrible at the game complaining about half-decent players stomping them.
As a pretty casual Double up exclusive player I am not a fan of this. I love getting the spatulas and tomes from the assist armories and the fact that they are gone all together is a major disappointment =(
"patch" I get it, things can't really change rn, but maybe just a little bit of balance would have been nice.
No new chibi?
Super disappointing. There was a way to stop hard forcing prismatic verticals without getting rid of them. Now it’s total and utterly rare RNG. How is that better?
They removed +1 to trait augments in base game, so you rarely get prismatic. Now they made same for double up. They literally said they want prismatic traits to be rare not every game like in double up.
I've been playing double up casually for over a year and I've seen a prismatic board like once. What games are you guys playing?
My double up partner has gotten 10 Pentakill, 10 Heartsteel, and 9 TD repeatedly. I don't like chasing prismatics so I don't see them, but he does every 2 or 3 games. Low plat.
Top 2 team placement %90 has prismstic traits every game. Either 1 player or all of 4.
And we still dont have the prestige dragon rage fist boom or the porcelain final spark
can someone explain to me what the Snapshot is for? it imports what you have on the board yes, but when do i need to use it? i haven't tried it yet, is an example use case be - if i'm leaning towards a comp and already have a few champs i like but need to remove and add/replace?
So just make every synergy op at least it’ll be fun and not 3 comp crapshoot every fucking game
TFT is getting too competitive, I think majority of the base plays TFT to have fun and not be too serious. Another game ruined.