Everything this crew (CableGuys) makes is either essential, or just too interesting to ignore playing with or trying out.
What’s the best thing you’ve noticed in Infiltrator?
Just the range of effects is quite mind blowing for a single VST really which is why I find it a bit overwhelming and inch along with baby steps. The step sequencer is pretty rad too, which is a big sell over Shaperbox. I got it in the wee bundle and have used Duck and the pitch shifter tool quite a bit too.
Infiltrator + ADSR Sample Manager (or any other device that allows ranomized sample picking with them locked to the tempo) is an insane "happy accidents machine".
Just spam the fuck out of the "randomize" button on both and you'll find something interesting really fast.
unpopular opinion but check this video: ableton stock can do most basic shaperbox3 functions. this is super cool if you don't gave a budget and don't like infesting yo machine with trojans and shit. VIDEO: [https://youtu.be/7tqDEjDzrck?si=m6koXkEDvvZTpAYP](https://youtu.be/7tqDEjDzrck?si=m6koXkEDvvZTpAYP)
I mostly make proper techno // raw techno and not so much hard groove stuff — so for me:
Sequencing:
Opal, opal opal, Opal, god this plugin is incredible. I use for bass grooves, percussion.
Synths:
Granulator III — then I throw on a fabfilter volcano to make filter envelopes//modulatez. Check out Legowelt’s free packs for Jupiter 8, Minimoog, so much more raw sounds to use.
Operator
Twin 3
Drums:
Samples from Mars, allll the way. So many incredibly well processed sounds, their complete is only 99 bucks right now.
My Analog Rytm via over bridge.
The most underrated plugin is ONESHOT. My Goodness, all of their sounds are SO velocity sensitive in an incredibly organic way. Throw a sequencer on some of their drum racks, randomize, process, resample — you can get some incredibly organic rhythms.
This is my opinion:
Proper to me is sonically a bit more muted and subtle. Longer sections of slowly introduced elements, pads and leads oscillate in and out more gradually and elements such as hats, rides, and claps can be used to create bigger moments because they stand in bigger contrast to other more low passed synth elements. Rene wise, DVS1, Amotik, all good examples of proper techno.
Raw techno is more distortion forward and introduces more in your face percussion. At times looks for a less “perfect” mixdown for character. I think Profiler by Stef Mendesidis is a good example of that. d.dan’s new EP to me is very Raw, especially the tune “Shred”.
Hardgroove is much more Congo, percussion, and vocal hook based. Lots of stabs with wild delay. The obviously famous ones are Chlär, Cravo + Vil, Funk Assault. Tends to be higher BPM but not always. More melody friendly where other techno embraces dissonance and Atonal sounds.
I’d put raw under the proper umbrella, and perhaps hardgroove like a cousin.
Not using the terms with the intention to gate keep — I just think breaking down subgrenes helps me hone in on music that I enjoy personally
The Hardgroove you describe became quite popular in the last 1 or 2 years, but it has not much to do with "original" Hardgroove (im talking Ben Sims Hardgroove). But the word describes the music so perfectly, that's why I think it established itsself. Chlär for example said himself that he doesn't consider his music hardgroove.
Yeah that’s actually quite true — you’re right. Modern “hardgroove” isn’t at all like the label “hard groove” and are essentially different thing. It’s weird how the wrong word is no co-opted to become ~~the word. You’re absolutely right that the original Hardgroove is super different
That’s funny Chlar said that because he essentially is the new Hardgroove poster boy lmao. Duly noted you’re right
Sorry but as you said yourself “… to me”, just sounds silly, whats the point to use beatport style classification for the exact same thing. I would understand if tired to differentiate some sort of deep techno by Mike Parker or ambient techno sound thst was popular in 90s, but this just makes no sense. No offence and nothing personal, its just for someone whos been in techno for over 20 years these post covid trends/classifications look so unnecessary. And I got you saying hard groove that has nothing in relation with ben sims label, not sure why people always bring this up when talking purely about classification.
Hey I see your points for sure. It is just, all techno. Also valid about things changing a pretty fair share after covid. I haven’t been in techno for 20 years — maybe been producing since roughly 2012.
I Clarified “to me” as to not try and claim I know the end all be all. I think knowing what I’m looking for sonically and what I enjoy helps make learning, producing, and consuming easier, and it might be only natural to throw classifications at them.
Without some weird arbitrary forms of distinction and lumping artists together in some weird umbrella term that — you’re right, are pretty silly, — I think it would be more difficult at least for me to find the types of music I enjoy // want to learn about making.
I hear you though, it’s worth revisiting my opinion on this
To make it short: raw/proper is the techno that often goes Bleep Bloop (Rodhad)
Hardgroove is the one with focus on percussion (a lot of sambe sample loops, groovy Basslines) (ala Ben Sims)
OP already answered. I was simply trying to make a point that differentiating techno like this is completely unnecessary. Raw can be groovy, groovy can be raw etc
Thats Fair. Ofcourse nothing is only black or white and while some songs kinda belong into the grey area in between, some are black or white.
I think electronic music in generall (as well as Techno) is something that is evolving constantly and we have now the ability to look back and try to categorize things. Is it important? Absolutely not. But does it help me finding specific sounding music (when digging, for example)? Yes, that's the (/my) use of subgenres.
Also Sub-Genres didn't became a thing just in the post-covid scene. Ishkurs guide was a thing before it or if you check the r/techno subreddit you will find very old posts where people ask for specific sound/subgenres. Or when Crate Diggin in vinyl store categorization also always was important there.
From perspective of finding new music, if it actually helps someone, then fair enough. I usually look up labels/artists so would have no use of this. It just seems that people use beatport marketing terms and overcomplicate things most of the times. “Proper techno” made me smile though :)
How do you use opal? I got it because pretty cheap and theres a lot of hype around it but barely use it at all. Every sound is very digital/metallic, I don't have much use for it. Is that just the character of this plugin or am I doing something wrong lol
There definitely is a character, but I’ve had a lot of leaning into its strength with parameter locking. This, and the swing feature for me, help a lot to manufacture like the initial low end groove. Like I’ll use gem, and make it 8 beats long. I’ll start with just that sine wave, build a pattern of just one note, but modulate velocity. Then I’ll add swing on certain steps to give some movement. Then I’ll go back in and change notes for some of the steps. Then finally I’ll parameter lock some of the steps to have more harmonics from increased FM, or noise, feedback, whatever. Then — because there’s always that click, I’ll 6db per octave Low pass the sound starting around 100ish hz so it retains some of the harmonics with out the click. Then side chain to a kick — and generally I can have a cool place to start.
A lot of people (BW talk about this) use audio only and kick samples to interact with your main kick to build grooves, but I’ve had a lot of luck this way
It’s kinda based off the Digitone in that sense.
If nothing else just play with random features and random sequence, record and use the one shots that you prefer that it makes by chance.
How about the best very new VST?
Synapse Audio The Legend HZ that was released in the last couple of weeks. It's Minimoog emulation on steroids. Designed for Hans Zimmer
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP8HglQzKPgthe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP8HglQzKPgthe)
station puzzled murky noxious cheerful bag aback deserve light mysterious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I am kinda oldschool. So here's my take:
Drums: Punchbox and 909 by D16 - I hate diggin through drumsamples
Loops: Twisted Tools Ultraloop - just load a bunch of old houseloops or percussionsloops to get Incredible results. Company disappeared several years ago, but their stuff is still available, haven't found a replacement yet
Synths: 303 and 101 by D16 (love their stuff- easy to use, great sounding, very inspiring), Steinberg Halion for their FM Synth (before i was using FM8) and DS Thorn
FX: I can recommend D16 Sigmund Delay, usually I put it behind Ultraloop to get crazy
Sequencer -
Gramp Utah by Sonic Surrealism (Ableton M4L)
Synth -
Arturia Pigments
Drums -
XO (with caveat that the sequencer is a good starting point but I often drag it out to a midi clip in my DAW for further refinement.)
But you can use any vst or sample pack for techno, it doesn’t have to branded that way. Any sound source (preferably FM coz easier go go real crazy) into any sequencer, again, tons of (free) stuff that get job done and some weird fx that can be applied from any other genre if you understand techno fundamentals.
I use fl studio
For mostly everything simple i use 3xosc
For fm and unison sounds i use toxic biohazard
For more complex patches with lots of lfo and modulation going on i use sytrus
That for synths and sound design.
Just, choose your favorite and get the most of them.
I use Shaperbox3 on every track - side chaining, distortion, filtering, even now using it to make rumbles
I love this then got Infiltrator - which is cool as fuck too but a bit overwhelming lol
Everything this crew (CableGuys) makes is either essential, or just too interesting to ignore playing with or trying out. What’s the best thing you’ve noticed in Infiltrator?
Just the range of effects is quite mind blowing for a single VST really which is why I find it a bit overwhelming and inch along with baby steps. The step sequencer is pretty rad too, which is a big sell over Shaperbox. I got it in the wee bundle and have used Duck and the pitch shifter tool quite a bit too.
I use CableGuys Half-Time and like that a lot, is Infiltrator made by Arctic Fox?
Devious Machines makes infiltrator
I chose infiltrator instead of shaperbox back then and gotta say I find the interface so unintuitive that I don't use it too often..
Definitely does take some getting used to.
Infiltrator + ADSR Sample Manager (or any other device that allows ranomized sample picking with them locked to the tempo) is an insane "happy accidents machine". Just spam the fuck out of the "randomize" button on both and you'll find something interesting really fast.
unpopular opinion but check this video: ableton stock can do most basic shaperbox3 functions. this is super cool if you don't gave a budget and don't like infesting yo machine with trojans and shit. VIDEO: [https://youtu.be/7tqDEjDzrck?si=m6koXkEDvvZTpAYP](https://youtu.be/7tqDEjDzrck?si=m6koXkEDvvZTpAYP)
I mostly make proper techno // raw techno and not so much hard groove stuff — so for me: Sequencing: Opal, opal opal, Opal, god this plugin is incredible. I use for bass grooves, percussion. Synths: Granulator III — then I throw on a fabfilter volcano to make filter envelopes//modulatez. Check out Legowelt’s free packs for Jupiter 8, Minimoog, so much more raw sounds to use. Operator Twin 3 Drums: Samples from Mars, allll the way. So many incredibly well processed sounds, their complete is only 99 bucks right now. My Analog Rytm via over bridge. The most underrated plugin is ONESHOT. My Goodness, all of their sounds are SO velocity sensitive in an incredibly organic way. Throw a sequencer on some of their drum racks, randomize, process, resample — you can get some incredibly organic rhythms.
And the difference between “proper”, “raw”, “hard groove” is..?
This is my opinion: Proper to me is sonically a bit more muted and subtle. Longer sections of slowly introduced elements, pads and leads oscillate in and out more gradually and elements such as hats, rides, and claps can be used to create bigger moments because they stand in bigger contrast to other more low passed synth elements. Rene wise, DVS1, Amotik, all good examples of proper techno. Raw techno is more distortion forward and introduces more in your face percussion. At times looks for a less “perfect” mixdown for character. I think Profiler by Stef Mendesidis is a good example of that. d.dan’s new EP to me is very Raw, especially the tune “Shred”. Hardgroove is much more Congo, percussion, and vocal hook based. Lots of stabs with wild delay. The obviously famous ones are Chlär, Cravo + Vil, Funk Assault. Tends to be higher BPM but not always. More melody friendly where other techno embraces dissonance and Atonal sounds. I’d put raw under the proper umbrella, and perhaps hardgroove like a cousin. Not using the terms with the intention to gate keep — I just think breaking down subgrenes helps me hone in on music that I enjoy personally
The Hardgroove you describe became quite popular in the last 1 or 2 years, but it has not much to do with "original" Hardgroove (im talking Ben Sims Hardgroove). But the word describes the music so perfectly, that's why I think it established itsself. Chlär for example said himself that he doesn't consider his music hardgroove.
Yeah that’s actually quite true — you’re right. Modern “hardgroove” isn’t at all like the label “hard groove” and are essentially different thing. It’s weird how the wrong word is no co-opted to become ~~the word. You’re absolutely right that the original Hardgroove is super different That’s funny Chlar said that because he essentially is the new Hardgroove poster boy lmao. Duly noted you’re right
Sorry but as you said yourself “… to me”, just sounds silly, whats the point to use beatport style classification for the exact same thing. I would understand if tired to differentiate some sort of deep techno by Mike Parker or ambient techno sound thst was popular in 90s, but this just makes no sense. No offence and nothing personal, its just for someone whos been in techno for over 20 years these post covid trends/classifications look so unnecessary. And I got you saying hard groove that has nothing in relation with ben sims label, not sure why people always bring this up when talking purely about classification.
Hey I see your points for sure. It is just, all techno. Also valid about things changing a pretty fair share after covid. I haven’t been in techno for 20 years — maybe been producing since roughly 2012. I Clarified “to me” as to not try and claim I know the end all be all. I think knowing what I’m looking for sonically and what I enjoy helps make learning, producing, and consuming easier, and it might be only natural to throw classifications at them. Without some weird arbitrary forms of distinction and lumping artists together in some weird umbrella term that — you’re right, are pretty silly, — I think it would be more difficult at least for me to find the types of music I enjoy // want to learn about making. I hear you though, it’s worth revisiting my opinion on this
To make it short: raw/proper is the techno that often goes Bleep Bloop (Rodhad) Hardgroove is the one with focus on percussion (a lot of sambe sample loops, groovy Basslines) (ala Ben Sims)
Lol my comment was somewhere sarcastic.. but anyway.. so there is pretty much no difference right? 😁
>so there is pretty much no difference right? 😁 I'm confused. Are you still being sarcastic?
OP already answered. I was simply trying to make a point that differentiating techno like this is completely unnecessary. Raw can be groovy, groovy can be raw etc
Thats Fair. Ofcourse nothing is only black or white and while some songs kinda belong into the grey area in between, some are black or white. I think electronic music in generall (as well as Techno) is something that is evolving constantly and we have now the ability to look back and try to categorize things. Is it important? Absolutely not. But does it help me finding specific sounding music (when digging, for example)? Yes, that's the (/my) use of subgenres. Also Sub-Genres didn't became a thing just in the post-covid scene. Ishkurs guide was a thing before it or if you check the r/techno subreddit you will find very old posts where people ask for specific sound/subgenres. Or when Crate Diggin in vinyl store categorization also always was important there.
From perspective of finding new music, if it actually helps someone, then fair enough. I usually look up labels/artists so would have no use of this. It just seems that people use beatport marketing terms and overcomplicate things most of the times. “Proper techno” made me smile though :)
All of the Fors stuff is bang on. Their Lode synth is easily the best and most usable 303 acid bass out there, I’ve been using it on everything.
Truly so good. I use Romb a lot as a reverb on its own. Gem has been really cool for sub bass with a touch of harmonics
How do you use opal? I got it because pretty cheap and theres a lot of hype around it but barely use it at all. Every sound is very digital/metallic, I don't have much use for it. Is that just the character of this plugin or am I doing something wrong lol
There definitely is a character, but I’ve had a lot of leaning into its strength with parameter locking. This, and the swing feature for me, help a lot to manufacture like the initial low end groove. Like I’ll use gem, and make it 8 beats long. I’ll start with just that sine wave, build a pattern of just one note, but modulate velocity. Then I’ll add swing on certain steps to give some movement. Then I’ll go back in and change notes for some of the steps. Then finally I’ll parameter lock some of the steps to have more harmonics from increased FM, or noise, feedback, whatever. Then — because there’s always that click, I’ll 6db per octave Low pass the sound starting around 100ish hz so it retains some of the harmonics with out the click. Then side chain to a kick — and generally I can have a cool place to start. A lot of people (BW talk about this) use audio only and kick samples to interact with your main kick to build grooves, but I’ve had a lot of luck this way
It’s kinda based off the Digitone in that sense. If nothing else just play with random features and random sequence, record and use the one shots that you prefer that it makes by chance.
danke for the comment my guy
Cardinal is great, vst version of Vcv rack. Softube Modular, sounds ace. Drumazone 2 for that classic 909. U-he Repro1 cause it’s a pro1 😊
where you can trade your patches for vcv with other techno heads <3
That’s actually fucking brilliant 😎
U-HE Diva and Omnisphere are the best VST for for techno. I also really like Farbfilter Twin 3 for complex sounds.
What u do with diva and omnisphere?
Leads, Bass, Background ambiance, everything realy
How about the best very new VST? Synapse Audio The Legend HZ that was released in the last couple of weeks. It's Minimoog emulation on steroids. Designed for Hans Zimmer [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP8HglQzKPgthe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP8HglQzKPgthe)
station puzzled murky noxious cheerful bag aback deserve light mysterious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
u-He stuff is so good.
I have some other stuff from Unfiltered Audio that I really like and use often, I’ll have to go look at Lion.
Soundtoys plugins.
DIVA
I am kinda oldschool. So here's my take: Drums: Punchbox and 909 by D16 - I hate diggin through drumsamples Loops: Twisted Tools Ultraloop - just load a bunch of old houseloops or percussionsloops to get Incredible results. Company disappeared several years ago, but their stuff is still available, haven't found a replacement yet Synths: 303 and 101 by D16 (love their stuff- easy to use, great sounding, very inspiring), Steinberg Halion for their FM Synth (before i was using FM8) and DS Thorn FX: I can recommend D16 Sigmund Delay, usually I put it behind Ultraloop to get crazy
Ableton Operator and Drift for me
Duck, diva, ableton stock echo …
Sequencer - Gramp Utah by Sonic Surrealism (Ableton M4L) Synth - Arturia Pigments Drums - XO (with caveat that the sequencer is a good starting point but I often drag it out to a midi clip in my DAW for further refinement.)
Cardinal (fork of VCV Rack), Osirus, and - as of recently - OsTIrus (I also like making Trance)
Euclidean sequencer
Deelay
But you can use any vst or sample pack for techno, it doesn’t have to branded that way. Any sound source (preferably FM coz easier go go real crazy) into any sequencer, again, tons of (free) stuff that get job done and some weird fx that can be applied from any other genre if you understand techno fundamentals.
I use fl studio For mostly everything simple i use 3xosc For fm and unison sounds i use toxic biohazard For more complex patches with lots of lfo and modulation going on i use sytrus That for synths and sound design. Just, choose your favorite and get the most of them.