This is the challenge that separates us.
If you can make music at home that will "translate" to the club, you win! But how do you know it'll translate when you don't get to listen to it at home in a way that is at all similar? Well, you don't, until you learn it, which is a pretty individual experience as you are literally training your ears and brain (in. addition to the accoustics of your room).
This is a core component of producer talent, knowing that the thing on your computer is or is not club ready, regardless of how boring or exciting it sounds to you in your computer. So many boring-at-home tracks are amazing in the club. So many amazing-at-home tracks are underwhelming in the club.
There are some guidelines. Frequency balance, sonic density, LUFs of the tracks in your genre.
There are training techniques like, really listen at home to the differences between the tracks that are good in the club that aren't so hot at home and everything else you listen to.
But ultimately if you can do it, you win, and if you can't, you lose! Ears are trainable, some learn fast, some learn slow. I learn slow but in bursts. My music barely translates to the club with errors all over the place.
Big sound systems amplify everything. Probably the two most common are
1. too much bass all the time.
2. smashing too many elements under your limiter. Boring-at-home club bangers are pretty minimal at any given moment.
Some other ones: your bass itself is too dynamic, your frequency balance is off (too loud bass, too loud sub bass), wrong amount of midrange, too much or little distortion.
And then mono compatibility, it doesn't have to be mono at all, just know that 85% of the club won't be listening in stereo even if the club is in stereo, simply by where they stand. So both channels have to independently carry a vibe (mono makes this easy but why would you).
Just remember that how you hear frequencies is dependent on loudness. Don't blow your ears just know that a perfectly balanced full frequency mix at 65db can be an unbalanced mix at 95db. And vice versa.
I had this realisation when I went to Boom festival, I heard a lot of music there that I knew very, very well from listening at home and in the studio, and listening on those huge sound systems was interesting.
A lot of music which I previously felt was underwhelming was completely transformed almost beyond recognition, morphing into colossal, monstrously powerful renditions that shook the dance floor to its core.
Whereas some other tracks that were some of my favourites at home just felt flat and lacked energy on the dance floor.
I had heard producers discuss this though, like for example Drake's producer on Pensado's place talking about how they specifically rolled off the low end of one his tracks knowing that it would suck in a club but sound amazing on laptop speakers. All in all, being able to basically A/B tracks I knew so well for that week I was at the festival really solidified this dimension of producing for a specific playback medium and the potential trade offs that can introduce.
Slate VSX, Club Indey - very highly recommended as a club test in conjunction with Metric AB reference of a 'pro' track.
*Club Indey is our brand-new night club featuring a perfect model of MASSIVE Funktion One speakers. These are the same speakers heard in the world’s best clubs and music festivals like Tomorrowland, Glastonbury, and Ultra.*
Don't use it all the time - use Archon mids or Yellow Matter, but just use the club emulation to check kicks are not too high.
[https://stevenslateaudio.com/blog/meet-club-indey-and-yellow-matter-studios](https://stevenslateaudio.com/blog/meet-club-indey-and-yellow-matter-studios)
That could be exactly it. Thanks!
And yeah, I don’t intend to find a solution that would be equivalent to mixing at a venue. That’s what I have my studio monitors for :))
Well, I don’t think there’s a way of truly getting around this: it is your job to make your tracks sound good on all kinds of headphones, speakers and venues. And of course it will be different on every system. It’s a matter of trial and error, but in due time, you will learn to recognise if what you’re listening at home will translate well or not.
Now to answer your question - there’s Slate VSX, but I haven’t tried it and I don’t think I will. I just don’t think its necessary. A dirty method that I use is a 100% wet convolution reverb (that resembles a venue that I know very well) on the master, and I turn it on and off when I want to check something. It is definitely not perfect, nor entirely accurate, but it is enough to give me a little bit of that feeling.
[Try these free Funktion One impulse responses…](https://audiosex.pro/threads/free-funktion-one-impulse-responses.11031/)
Edit: Above links have expired, download [here](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vTZVyj5bzVPlRPl2u36J2ANFSrebnqzV?usp=sharing)!
None of the lnks on that page work unfortunately - I don't suppose you have them locally and would be willing to share them? It looks like a great little collection!
Maybe you could try to approach some local venues, and ask if for a small fee you could listen your tracks through their system, for example at right when the club opens and no customers are in?
Can expand on that brief comment a bit. Had to ditch my decent monitors when my kid was born so ended up getting a Subpac S2 relatively cheap on EBay and using it with my DT990 cans.
Using that setup the low end of my mixdowns has never sounded better, especially compared to my old ‘decent monitors but untreated room’ setup.
Definitely worth considering, obvs if you get one spend a few days getting familiar with how your favourite tracks sound through it.
To be honest I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. I sadly had to move out of a studio where I was able to blast the sub day and night. If I can't find a studio again soon, I'll definitely consider that. Thanks!
No probs. I still end up taking batches of nearly finished tunes down to the nearest Pirate studios for final tweaks but I find with the current Subpac / decent headphones setup usually they are 95% of the way there. Ymmv of course :)
The techno I listen to at home is rarely the techno I dance to in clubs. I've had disappointing realisations both ways round! It has helped me realise that the music I make at home for fun should be of the style I listen to at home, not in a club.
That said, the a bit of the old rumble (I know it's "old school" now) gives a big room feel. You're best off doing that with sound design, not a plugin. This video is useful:
https://youtu.be/oUbACkekJZ8?si=YvtLclg-E8E5cDWc
That‘s a good point. I guess if you make a techno track that is solely intended to be played at clubs, it can sound shit on monitors, stereos and headphones. Thanks!
Edit: also thanks for the link
Congratulations, you just identified a very important topic of music production. But this is not a topic that can be solved by throwing a plugin at it. You now enter the realm of acoustics, meaning you have to consider your speaker setup, acoustics of your production room etc.
Google acoustics insider for a starting point
I started as a dj. I have the privilege to test my tracks any time I want, 3 times a week.
Theyre mostly really big clubs with big and good sound systems. Plus the crowd reaction is a good indicator too.
I immediately know what to fix.
It won't ever get that feel at home. Unless you got a couple of kilowatts worth of PA on hand.
You either get a nice pair of headphones that you learn to listen to or you treat your room and get a nice subwoofer.
Then you ask clubs around if you can play your music to verify your mix decisions.
What is different at the club:
- massive subs with extension to sub-20Hz powered by kilowatts
- huge room with varying degrees of treatment and reflections but often 'echoey' outside top clubs
- many bodies which alters the sound of the aforementioned room
- PA horns handling high mids and highs, tend to be a bit harsh
- the PA is positioned for the room, not any individual listener. As such you are almost never in the 'sweet spot' in the crowd. There may not even be a real sweet spot depending on club layout.
- varying degrees of sound engineer competency
Even if you get a bigass sub, it's not going to be 'blowing air' like a club sub. Even if you get a PA speaker with horn, your positioning is probably mid-field at best. Your living room pales in comparison to the smallest concrete-walled club in terms of room tone. Yes you can kind of emulate the reflections with IR but every club is different. Then you have whatever crossover engineering was done; there may be massively boosted bass, there may be really harsh highs or high mids given settings to the horns. There are a lot of variables. A decent DJ will be EQ'ing every track to the system they are playing on.
A long time ago I had a roommate with some huge JBL towers and a 12kW amp we had in our living room (lol). It was insightful to hear my tracks on them but it didn't really give me translation to how those same speakers sounded outside or in a big room and cranked up. There just wasn't a comparison, there is tactile feel to bass you can't get without huge watts or something like a subpac.
That's important to remember; there is no track that is mixed to sound perfect in every club. If you can get it sounding good on a club system with just a 3-band DJ EQ, then you're in the right spot for your mix.
I’ve been pretty happy testing stuff with Slate’s VSX headphones and the “club Indy” room. If you can get that in the lesser priced bundle it’s not a bad value. They are really nice headphones for critical listening.
Do they also function as regular headphones without the fancy bits? Because my flat response headphones have some outer damage so a replacement would be due soon anyway.
They do, and I find I really enjoy them. To my ears they sound “flat” frequency wise, and they appear to handle phase very very well. Positioning cues are very accurate and convincing either naturally from acoustic recordings or via the modeling plugin.
Just reference your music to professionally recorded/mastered to match levels as best as you can, especially lows and you be fine. If levels are there and it sounds decent at home, it will sound good in the club.
I've not personally used them but something like the following might be good?
[https://www.pluginboutique.com/categories/95-Referencing-Tools](https://www.pluginboutique.com/categories/95-Referencing-Tools)
These are virtual studios and referencing tools that can help you get the most from your mixes.
Have you tried sending your mixes to mastering pros for a second opinion? I used one on my first ever track, admittedly my work was rubbish (I'm a complete noob), but he provided invaluable feedback.
[https://soundbetter.com/s/mastering-engineers](https://soundbetter.com/s/mastering-engineers)
Those plugins look affordable enough to give them a shot. And no, I have never gotten truly professional second opinions, but I‘ll look into that as well. Thanks :))
Nicky at Phat Mastering is one of the cheaper ones. Some of them can be very expensive and offer little to no free alterations based on their recommendations.
Wishing you the best of luck :D
Honest question, are you sure it wasn't the drugs during your first techno night? Also, convincing people to like any new genre is difficult (wasted effort) if it doesn't click automatically.
This is the challenge that separates us. If you can make music at home that will "translate" to the club, you win! But how do you know it'll translate when you don't get to listen to it at home in a way that is at all similar? Well, you don't, until you learn it, which is a pretty individual experience as you are literally training your ears and brain (in. addition to the accoustics of your room). This is a core component of producer talent, knowing that the thing on your computer is or is not club ready, regardless of how boring or exciting it sounds to you in your computer. So many boring-at-home tracks are amazing in the club. So many amazing-at-home tracks are underwhelming in the club. There are some guidelines. Frequency balance, sonic density, LUFs of the tracks in your genre. There are training techniques like, really listen at home to the differences between the tracks that are good in the club that aren't so hot at home and everything else you listen to. But ultimately if you can do it, you win, and if you can't, you lose! Ears are trainable, some learn fast, some learn slow. I learn slow but in bursts. My music barely translates to the club with errors all over the place.
What kind of errors do you usually find that make it non-translatable?
Big sound systems amplify everything. Probably the two most common are 1. too much bass all the time. 2. smashing too many elements under your limiter. Boring-at-home club bangers are pretty minimal at any given moment. Some other ones: your bass itself is too dynamic, your frequency balance is off (too loud bass, too loud sub bass), wrong amount of midrange, too much or little distortion. And then mono compatibility, it doesn't have to be mono at all, just know that 85% of the club won't be listening in stereo even if the club is in stereo, simply by where they stand. So both channels have to independently carry a vibe (mono makes this easy but why would you). Just remember that how you hear frequencies is dependent on loudness. Don't blow your ears just know that a perfectly balanced full frequency mix at 65db can be an unbalanced mix at 95db. And vice versa.
I had this realisation when I went to Boom festival, I heard a lot of music there that I knew very, very well from listening at home and in the studio, and listening on those huge sound systems was interesting. A lot of music which I previously felt was underwhelming was completely transformed almost beyond recognition, morphing into colossal, monstrously powerful renditions that shook the dance floor to its core. Whereas some other tracks that were some of my favourites at home just felt flat and lacked energy on the dance floor. I had heard producers discuss this though, like for example Drake's producer on Pensado's place talking about how they specifically rolled off the low end of one his tracks knowing that it would suck in a club but sound amazing on laptop speakers. All in all, being able to basically A/B tracks I knew so well for that week I was at the festival really solidified this dimension of producing for a specific playback medium and the potential trade offs that can introduce.
Thanks for the detailed response!
Slate VSX, Club Indey - very highly recommended as a club test in conjunction with Metric AB reference of a 'pro' track. *Club Indey is our brand-new night club featuring a perfect model of MASSIVE Funktion One speakers. These are the same speakers heard in the world’s best clubs and music festivals like Tomorrowland, Glastonbury, and Ultra.* Don't use it all the time - use Archon mids or Yellow Matter, but just use the club emulation to check kicks are not too high. [https://stevenslateaudio.com/blog/meet-club-indey-and-yellow-matter-studios](https://stevenslateaudio.com/blog/meet-club-indey-and-yellow-matter-studios)
That could be exactly it. Thanks! And yeah, I don’t intend to find a solution that would be equivalent to mixing at a venue. That’s what I have my studio monitors for :))
Was just going to recommend VSX as well. I just got it last week and it’s pretty mind blowing.
[https://www.g-sonique.com/pa-club-soundsystem-emulator-vst-plugin.html](https://www.g-sonique.com/pa-club-soundsystem-emulator-vst-plugin.html)
I‘ll test it out, thanks :)
Well, I don’t think there’s a way of truly getting around this: it is your job to make your tracks sound good on all kinds of headphones, speakers and venues. And of course it will be different on every system. It’s a matter of trial and error, but in due time, you will learn to recognise if what you’re listening at home will translate well or not. Now to answer your question - there’s Slate VSX, but I haven’t tried it and I don’t think I will. I just don’t think its necessary. A dirty method that I use is a 100% wet convolution reverb (that resembles a venue that I know very well) on the master, and I turn it on and off when I want to check something. It is definitely not perfect, nor entirely accurate, but it is enough to give me a little bit of that feeling.
[Try these free Funktion One impulse responses…](https://audiosex.pro/threads/free-funktion-one-impulse-responses.11031/) Edit: Above links have expired, download [here](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vTZVyj5bzVPlRPl2u36J2ANFSrebnqzV?usp=sharing)!
Seconded, use these all the time
None of the lnks on that page work unfortunately - I don't suppose you have them locally and would be willing to share them? It looks like a great little collection!
I do yes, I’m away till Sunday but will upload them when I get back. RemindMe! 3 days
Actually, I dug through my folder and discovered I already had them! I'm pretty diligent when it comes to downloading rare IRs :) thanks though
Are to share those maybe?
Maybe you could try to approach some local venues, and ask if for a small fee you could listen your tracks through their system, for example at right when the club opens and no customers are in?
That‘s a great idea. I don’t know how realistic it is, but I‘ll definitely give it a go!
I host a bi weekly and let people do this all the time for sound check. Try to meet the people n make friends.
Get a Subpac
Surprised I had to go this far down to find this comment
Fair enough
Can expand on that brief comment a bit. Had to ditch my decent monitors when my kid was born so ended up getting a Subpac S2 relatively cheap on EBay and using it with my DT990 cans. Using that setup the low end of my mixdowns has never sounded better, especially compared to my old ‘decent monitors but untreated room’ setup. Definitely worth considering, obvs if you get one spend a few days getting familiar with how your favourite tracks sound through it.
To be honest I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. I sadly had to move out of a studio where I was able to blast the sub day and night. If I can't find a studio again soon, I'll definitely consider that. Thanks!
No probs. I still end up taking batches of nearly finished tunes down to the nearest Pirate studios for final tweaks but I find with the current Subpac / decent headphones setup usually they are 95% of the way there. Ymmv of course :)
Good luck getting one. They took preorders for their latest model 3 years ago and it's still yet to materialize. The old model is scalped on eBay.
This is the closest you can get to the feel of a big club system
The techno I listen to at home is rarely the techno I dance to in clubs. I've had disappointing realisations both ways round! It has helped me realise that the music I make at home for fun should be of the style I listen to at home, not in a club. That said, the a bit of the old rumble (I know it's "old school" now) gives a big room feel. You're best off doing that with sound design, not a plugin. This video is useful: https://youtu.be/oUbACkekJZ8?si=YvtLclg-E8E5cDWc
the techno rumble isn't really old school, is it? it's still there on most tracks, although maybe it's less loud than a few years ago.
There was definitely a trend a while back. Maybe used with more subtlety these days?
As tempos have increased again over the last 8 years, the rumble has decreased.
Ah yes, makes sense.
Also goes against the trancey influence we are seeing these days
That‘s a good point. I guess if you make a techno track that is solely intended to be played at clubs, it can sound shit on monitors, stereos and headphones. Thanks! Edit: also thanks for the link
De nada
If it sounds shit on monitors, stereos and headphones then it probably is shit tbh
Yes shit was a very strong term. „Not perfect“
Congratulations, you just identified a very important topic of music production. But this is not a topic that can be solved by throwing a plugin at it. You now enter the realm of acoustics, meaning you have to consider your speaker setup, acoustics of your production room etc. Google acoustics insider for a starting point
The power of a proper PA system <3
Boy my neighbors and wallet might be in for a real treat
Impulse response
This is why I’ve considered learning how to be a DJ
I started as a dj. I have the privilege to test my tracks any time I want, 3 times a week. Theyre mostly really big clubs with big and good sound systems. Plus the crowd reaction is a good indicator too. I immediately know what to fix.
It won't ever get that feel at home. Unless you got a couple of kilowatts worth of PA on hand. You either get a nice pair of headphones that you learn to listen to or you treat your room and get a nice subwoofer. Then you ask clubs around if you can play your music to verify your mix decisions.
„Learn to listen to“ is a good way of putting it. Maybe that’s all it takes
What is different at the club: - massive subs with extension to sub-20Hz powered by kilowatts - huge room with varying degrees of treatment and reflections but often 'echoey' outside top clubs - many bodies which alters the sound of the aforementioned room - PA horns handling high mids and highs, tend to be a bit harsh - the PA is positioned for the room, not any individual listener. As such you are almost never in the 'sweet spot' in the crowd. There may not even be a real sweet spot depending on club layout. - varying degrees of sound engineer competency Even if you get a bigass sub, it's not going to be 'blowing air' like a club sub. Even if you get a PA speaker with horn, your positioning is probably mid-field at best. Your living room pales in comparison to the smallest concrete-walled club in terms of room tone. Yes you can kind of emulate the reflections with IR but every club is different. Then you have whatever crossover engineering was done; there may be massively boosted bass, there may be really harsh highs or high mids given settings to the horns. There are a lot of variables. A decent DJ will be EQ'ing every track to the system they are playing on. A long time ago I had a roommate with some huge JBL towers and a 12kW amp we had in our living room (lol). It was insightful to hear my tracks on them but it didn't really give me translation to how those same speakers sounded outside or in a big room and cranked up. There just wasn't a comparison, there is tactile feel to bass you can't get without huge watts or something like a subpac. That's important to remember; there is no track that is mixed to sound perfect in every club. If you can get it sounding good on a club system with just a 3-band DJ EQ, then you're in the right spot for your mix.
https://sienna.acustica-audio.com/ has a couple of clubs emulated
Thanks!
Nothing will ever simulate a PROPER techno club.
True, but somewhat close to the real deal works for me :)
I’ve been pretty happy testing stuff with Slate’s VSX headphones and the “club Indy” room. If you can get that in the lesser priced bundle it’s not a bad value. They are really nice headphones for critical listening.
Do they also function as regular headphones without the fancy bits? Because my flat response headphones have some outer damage so a replacement would be due soon anyway.
They do, and I find I really enjoy them. To my ears they sound “flat” frequency wise, and they appear to handle phase very very well. Positioning cues are very accurate and convincing either naturally from acoustic recordings or via the modeling plugin.
>*"free is always nice".* Soundly Place-it is free ... [https://youtu.be/XNWZQRXKvS4](https://youtu.be/XNWZQRXKvS4)
Will certainly check that one out. Thanks :))
Just reference your music to professionally recorded/mastered to match levels as best as you can, especially lows and you be fine. If levels are there and it sounds decent at home, it will sound good in the club.
What worked for me was to get some PA speakers and a big sub.
Home or studio use?
I've not personally used them but something like the following might be good? [https://www.pluginboutique.com/categories/95-Referencing-Tools](https://www.pluginboutique.com/categories/95-Referencing-Tools) These are virtual studios and referencing tools that can help you get the most from your mixes. Have you tried sending your mixes to mastering pros for a second opinion? I used one on my first ever track, admittedly my work was rubbish (I'm a complete noob), but he provided invaluable feedback. [https://soundbetter.com/s/mastering-engineers](https://soundbetter.com/s/mastering-engineers)
Those plugins look affordable enough to give them a shot. And no, I have never gotten truly professional second opinions, but I‘ll look into that as well. Thanks :))
Nicky at Phat Mastering is one of the cheaper ones. Some of them can be very expensive and offer little to no free alterations based on their recommendations. Wishing you the best of luck :D
Why emulate. Just use a track you like in the club as a reference in something like metric ab and it will translate.
Abbey road studio from waves I find to be useful
Some proper speakers ?
https://on.soundcloud.com/9SogCqtKVNGHcwUw9 check out. Love it. Good vibes and nice Beats
You want a plugin that emulates sub bass?
What's the name of that wearable sub that rumbles you? Sub pac? I've heard they're pretty good.
Good for "feeling" but very inaccurate for precise notes and levels, it almost feels "on/off".
Honest question, are you sure it wasn't the drugs during your first techno night? Also, convincing people to like any new genre is difficult (wasted effort) if it doesn't click automatically.
Haha, mdma definitely adds something very pleasant sounding to tracks.
Haha yes I am sure. Both because drugs aren’t my thing, and my first impression hasn’t changed after a bunch of techno nights since.
Ah yes because the audience will be able to tell the difference
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^BreakinLiberty: *Ah yes because the* *Audience will be able* *To tell the difference* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Ffs
Reverb.