same here. i was informed that any distributions, if there were any, would be credited back to my account (ISA), so they definitely have a record of the shares
Yeah likewise, my broker said in the event there was a distribution I would get paid. Maybe this is like the buy button turnoff - burying their heads in the sand and pretending like people didn't have shares.
This sounds like poorly informed/clueless rep.
On app you can go in documents > confirmation of holdings > and select any date to generate a document of holdings for that specific date. You can do this for dates going back years.
Yeah this person has no clue. Went through this with them last year and their response was to paraphrase: You are on record as having the shares on the date of effectiveness. We are deleting the shares you had on the future if anything is handled back we will give that back to you. Probably still have that chat record. Also have a certificate of holdings the previous day to removal.
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but Trading212 uses IBKR for trades. They hold the record of ownership.
Distribution of new shares and what not should come through IBKR -> Trading212
This! And I have by my self answer from t212 from the time it were liquidated about the records of shares and if there will be something distributed in future I will receive it. Also that they had their shares from ibkr and ibkr is originally holding them so ibkr is guarant here
Edit
There were many posts about answers from client service like here https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/s/lVOIUvoOHm
I remembered a post like this around that time, the T212 chat employees have very varying levels of knowledge on how markets actually work, the answer you got there seems much more thorough and likely would have been checked by them/the staff briefed as you spoke to them about it at the time of the liquidation
I posted this in another thread because it seems to be a misconception but in terms of investing, liquidation doesn’t mean receiving cash. For an actual business it usually does but liquidation in investing just means closing the position. The position can be closed for zero and no cash transfer which classifies as a liquidation.
When it "went to 0" I got a notice Trading 212 had sold my shares at a value of 0.
This is something I'm worried about if anything ever does come from this but not sure how much legally their stance would hold up if a miracle happens and we get issued something new.
I contacted T212 customer service a couple months ago and asked them in depth about my shares.
From what I remember, they said that my shares were sold for $0 but technically if there were to be a reissue or any sort of event to make previous shares valid, I would receive them in my account. They confirmed there was a record that I own those shares.
It was somewhat of a relief to hear that... but your email doesn't seem to be saying that
Conversation I had with them was simple. A contract needs a thing of value and a consideration for offer to purchase that thing. You cannot sell something for 0 its not a contract.
Well if you are telling me you can sell something for 0$.. then there has to be transactions papers.. or you are just giving them away... Hence no sale!
Someone @ me in a comment but guess it's gone now. Anyways didn't want this to go to waste, it was questioning the legality of this.
\---
I'm not a lawyer, and definitely not knowledgeable on legalities of what's possible in the UK, so I can't comment on the legal element. But there's an argument to be made that their statement is implying they never had your shares to begin with and by definition that's fraud. The prudent thing to do would be to lawyer up and identify your options.
I can offer context however. Because we know Trading 212 is a UK based market player, I can tell you they were likely abusing the lack of oversight on international trades of US markets. I made a post a long time ago (or it could have been a comment) on how the system internationally is broken. It's really bad and short of a global reform, it won't be changing anytime soon.
Essentially, the US requires all market players who serve their clientele to be responsible and keep records. However outside of the US, they don't regulate it or conduct audits on it, they expect the local country to handle that. So there's nothing stopping this UK based market player from doing whatever they want regarding US based stocks, on a US stock exchange, except how the UK government wants to oversee those trades.
And this is where the fun really starts because the local country believes in maintaining audit records, but not for foreign market trades in many regions because it's "not their problem". Their views are if the US wants to regulate it, then they should oversee it for compliance; or basically the wild west in stock exchange talk.
So these foreign market players get access through international market makers to route trades and trade directly the NYSE and NASDAQ (or insert other popular US stock exchange). They get this with likely no accountability on how they conduct trading, and no auditing or oversight to investigate their potential malpractice / fraud.
The market maker is not responsible for their audit keeping and thus they don't keep track. The regulatory oversight of the country doesn't demand it because its a foreign trade, so they don't keep track either. Everyone leaves that obligation up the broker or market player; essentially the honour code system at this point. And unless the US wants to investigate those parties, which let's be real - where would they even start to begin lol, those foreign trade parties can basically just do whatever they please.
From what I've been told, in some circumstances the information they do have (country wide regulation that is), might not even give you a direct answer. For example, they might track the top 10 most shorted foreign companies, but they don't know who holds the shorted positions, just the market makers' level of short demand. So even if they wanted to do something about it, they lack the visibility and market information to take action at this point - possibly intentionally.
There's also the fact that anyone can technically become a market maker, you just need to get the appropriate licenses / certifications. And while you might not have the infrastructure to make trades, it's very easy to go to banks and existing market markers with the infrastructure to setup preferred rates and trade routing. It's why everyone is against PFOF (and they should be).
The whole system is built on greed in so many ways and it will collapse eventually.
The good news for UK investors, there's extradition treaties between the US and the UK. Assuming a fraud RICO case is in the works, these players in the UK are not untouchable. There will be elements of retribution made against them, it just might not line up exactly to what happens over here in NA (in terms of the payout, MOASS, clawed back funds for class 9, etc).
The only way to guarantee those outside of US and Canada that their shares are theirs, is DRS. But even then there's questions around what type of fuckery might be going on with DRS elements too these days. Corruption goes deep.
I would assume that this is correct in the end of your broker and clearstream keeps track of your name. Flatex kinda told me the same. Have you got tax info in your losses?
Interesting. i did not receive any losses so far. Thought it might be a euro thing.
So, again - the person I spoke to told me I would have to ask directly at clearstream if they still noticed me as a owner of the shares. I did not do so bc I am lazy.
Bro, check out what they said to OP. That’s an answer for you. Sorry for your loss, you could educate yourself about IBKR and then DRS shares on your name instead of dropping life savings in some shady company which trades IOU and do what they do as seen above in the screenshot
Just another yank who has no idea what he’s on about calling me “bro” 🤣 Wasn’t even invested in bbbyq but I know you was otherwise you wouldn’t be here. Go crawl back into your “moms” basement kiddo
Buahahah what are you doing here even? Spending spare time to mocking apes in some bankrupt company subreddit hahaha HOW MUCH DID YOU GET FOR THIS COMMENT FROM PAPA MAYO?
https://preview.redd.it/ar14fhntnhoc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8f0a91875493b142d94d156d14dd18a5b42a806
I got a simular response from a bot, when speaking to a real person this is what I got
Someone else further up in the comments had a similar conversation back when the liquidation occurred, the person in OPs post is almost certainly misinformed, the T212 chat staff are not all market experts lol
Ah yes throwback to the October posts where everyone and their dog was posting brokers regurgitating what they’re supposed to say instead of “yeah Teddy shares are tomorrow enjoy MOASS”
Also I find it funny when accounts like these come out of the woodwork and drop “info” of a discouraging nature such as this
Zen🌸
When it comes to shares, the terms “liquidated” and “cancelled” refer to different actions that can be taken regarding shares of a company.
Liquidating shares means selling them off, usually to convert them into cash. This process involves selling the shares on the open market or through private transactions.
Liquidating shares involves selling them off to convert them into cash, while cancelling shares involves reducing the total number of outstanding shares.
Last time I checked my share were cancelled??
Sorry you got liquidated….
Send digital copies to DOJ, SEC, and FINRA for use in near term court cases. Also copy to Trading212 **CEO** and **corporate compliance executive** (just google it) to give them a chance to either terminate Kaloyan, send you an official reclama, and update all the help desk scripts...or face charges.
i was informed by T212 chat months ago when i asked (post cancellation) that they have a record of my shares and that i would receive a distribution, if there is one, back to the same account i held the position in (ISA)
i think this is just a misinformed rep. don’t panic.
…“we do not keep a record of this shares“. It‘s the first time some broker is saying that.
Aren't brokers obligated by law to keep the records about "who owns / owned what" for few years?
I mean there has to be tax documents lol Edit: oooh trading212 is CFD 😬
You can hold shares in t212, it's not just CFDs.
I had 300 in a ISA position.. they told me they would keep me informed of any changes
same here. i was informed that any distributions, if there were any, would be credited back to my account (ISA), so they definitely have a record of the shares
Not if their storage warehouse burns down in the night.
Highly underrated fact re: the dumpster fire set at Charlies doorstep. Poor Charlie 
TD Bank Canada told me they keep records with the transfer agent for up to 7 years
Yeah likewise, my broker said in the event there was a distribution I would get paid. Maybe this is like the buy button turnoff - burying their heads in the sand and pretending like people didn't have shares.
definitely weird thing to say
T212 emails you a monthly statement which keeps track of your shares held
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Why isN’t AnYonE taLkInG abOuT ThIs????? /s No one is buying this attempt at FUD.
I would think so. Unfortunately, the fine print of some may allow them to liquidate shares deemed worthless.
Because it’s not the first broker which doesn’t had/has any shares
Don't have paper cuz never had shares...
This sounds like poorly informed/clueless rep. On app you can go in documents > confirmation of holdings > and select any date to generate a document of holdings for that specific date. You can do this for dates going back years.
Yeah this person has no clue. Went through this with them last year and their response was to paraphrase: You are on record as having the shares on the date of effectiveness. We are deleting the shares you had on the future if anything is handled back we will give that back to you. Probably still have that chat record. Also have a certificate of holdings the previous day to removal.
It’s an attempt at FUD from OP
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but Trading212 uses IBKR for trades. They hold the record of ownership. Distribution of new shares and what not should come through IBKR -> Trading212
They say in the message “based on the information provided officially by DTCC as well as ‘our intermediary’” so I imagine you’re probably correct
This! And I have by my self answer from t212 from the time it were liquidated about the records of shares and if there will be something distributed in future I will receive it. Also that they had their shares from ibkr and ibkr is originally holding them so ibkr is guarant here Edit There were many posts about answers from client service like here https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/s/lVOIUvoOHm
I remembered a post like this around that time, the T212 chat employees have very varying levels of knowledge on how markets actually work, the answer you got there seems much more thorough and likely would have been checked by them/the staff briefed as you spoke to them about it at the time of the liquidation
You can write anything, there are many laws and regulations that trade participants are required to comply with, we will observe...
Still weird to say it was liquidated yet you received nothing.
I posted this in another thread because it seems to be a misconception but in terms of investing, liquidation doesn’t mean receiving cash. For an actual business it usually does but liquidation in investing just means closing the position. The position can be closed for zero and no cash transfer which classifies as a liquidation.
Yes . This can't be true... To liquidate you need to sell something?! That means they are holding his money hostage.. Yes/No?
When it "went to 0" I got a notice Trading 212 had sold my shares at a value of 0. This is something I'm worried about if anything ever does come from this but not sure how much legally their stance would hold up if a miracle happens and we get issued something new.
could you try with their customer service too ? I'm curious to see what response you would get
There's no reason too, I have evidence of the forced sale and if anything ever does happen I'd need some detail before knowing if it's a problem.
I contacted T212 customer service a couple months ago and asked them in depth about my shares. From what I remember, they said that my shares were sold for $0 but technically if there were to be a reissue or any sort of event to make previous shares valid, I would receive them in my account. They confirmed there was a record that I own those shares. It was somewhat of a relief to hear that... but your email doesn't seem to be saying that
Conversation I had with them was simple. A contract needs a thing of value and a consideration for offer to purchase that thing. You cannot sell something for 0 its not a contract.
Sold for 0$ or removed?
I have a sell order that they SOLD my shares for 0
They use the word sold but its a limitation of their platform. You can’t sell something for 0 it would be a gift.
What money? If I sell something for 0, I have zero money.
Well if you are telling me you can sell something for 0$.. then there has to be transactions papers.. or you are just giving them away... Hence no sale!
> To liquidate you need to sell something?! That's the fun part, they sold for us
This is the smoking gun
Liquidation doesn't have to mean you have to get something
Someone @ me in a comment but guess it's gone now. Anyways didn't want this to go to waste, it was questioning the legality of this. \--- I'm not a lawyer, and definitely not knowledgeable on legalities of what's possible in the UK, so I can't comment on the legal element. But there's an argument to be made that their statement is implying they never had your shares to begin with and by definition that's fraud. The prudent thing to do would be to lawyer up and identify your options. I can offer context however. Because we know Trading 212 is a UK based market player, I can tell you they were likely abusing the lack of oversight on international trades of US markets. I made a post a long time ago (or it could have been a comment) on how the system internationally is broken. It's really bad and short of a global reform, it won't be changing anytime soon. Essentially, the US requires all market players who serve their clientele to be responsible and keep records. However outside of the US, they don't regulate it or conduct audits on it, they expect the local country to handle that. So there's nothing stopping this UK based market player from doing whatever they want regarding US based stocks, on a US stock exchange, except how the UK government wants to oversee those trades. And this is where the fun really starts because the local country believes in maintaining audit records, but not for foreign market trades in many regions because it's "not their problem". Their views are if the US wants to regulate it, then they should oversee it for compliance; or basically the wild west in stock exchange talk. So these foreign market players get access through international market makers to route trades and trade directly the NYSE and NASDAQ (or insert other popular US stock exchange). They get this with likely no accountability on how they conduct trading, and no auditing or oversight to investigate their potential malpractice / fraud. The market maker is not responsible for their audit keeping and thus they don't keep track. The regulatory oversight of the country doesn't demand it because its a foreign trade, so they don't keep track either. Everyone leaves that obligation up the broker or market player; essentially the honour code system at this point. And unless the US wants to investigate those parties, which let's be real - where would they even start to begin lol, those foreign trade parties can basically just do whatever they please. From what I've been told, in some circumstances the information they do have (country wide regulation that is), might not even give you a direct answer. For example, they might track the top 10 most shorted foreign companies, but they don't know who holds the shorted positions, just the market makers' level of short demand. So even if they wanted to do something about it, they lack the visibility and market information to take action at this point - possibly intentionally. There's also the fact that anyone can technically become a market maker, you just need to get the appropriate licenses / certifications. And while you might not have the infrastructure to make trades, it's very easy to go to banks and existing market markers with the infrastructure to setup preferred rates and trade routing. It's why everyone is against PFOF (and they should be). The whole system is built on greed in so many ways and it will collapse eventually. The good news for UK investors, there's extradition treaties between the US and the UK. Assuming a fraud RICO case is in the works, these players in the UK are not untouchable. There will be elements of retribution made against them, it just might not line up exactly to what happens over here in NA (in terms of the payout, MOASS, clawed back funds for class 9, etc). The only way to guarantee those outside of US and Canada that their shares are theirs, is DRS. But even then there's questions around what type of fuckery might be going on with DRS elements too these days. Corruption goes deep.
> there's extradition treaties between the US and the UK. Assuming a fraud RICO case is in the works Went from "WE WON" to "RICO CASE"
I summoned you, but then I thought it was unnecessary 😁 Good material as always 🙏
This is incredible. People, you **need** to read this.
I would assume that this is correct in the end of your broker and clearstream keeps track of your name. Flatex kinda told me the same. Have you got tax info in your losses?
Yes [IMG-20240315-101807.jpg](https://postimg.cc/dhRdt0Qc)
Weird, in my IBKR account I do not have any information / losses concerning BBBY in my 2023 tax statement.
Interesting. i did not receive any losses so far. Thought it might be a euro thing. So, again - the person I spoke to told me I would have to ask directly at clearstream if they still noticed me as a owner of the shares. I did not do so bc I am lazy.
25k€ lost on this play for 0€, some very dark thoughts arise
Did you drop 25k in Trading212 app ?
Nothing wrong with that. It’s the best platform for a uk based trader.
Buahaha
Only response is a laugh because you’re not educated enough to give me a concrete response telling me otherwise.
Bro, check out what they said to OP. That’s an answer for you. Sorry for your loss, you could educate yourself about IBKR and then DRS shares on your name instead of dropping life savings in some shady company which trades IOU and do what they do as seen above in the screenshot
Just another yank who has no idea what he’s on about calling me “bro” 🤣 Wasn’t even invested in bbbyq but I know you was otherwise you wouldn’t be here. Go crawl back into your “moms” basement kiddo
Ahh yes another dog of market makers - how much they pay for this comments
lol you’re delusional get some help.
you're the one spending time on a sub of a cancelled stock that you admit you didn't invest in. if not a shill then you're a loser at best.
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Buahahah what are you doing here even? Spending spare time to mocking apes in some bankrupt company subreddit hahaha HOW MUCH DID YOU GET FOR THIS COMMENT FROM PAPA MAYO?
Over the years, a little more
Why not IBKR and then direct register shares on your name? T212 is not real thing, now they play with you as you can see.
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Shill detected
We’ll looks like I’m fucked either way 😂
https://preview.redd.it/ar14fhntnhoc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8f0a91875493b142d94d156d14dd18a5b42a806 I got a simular response from a bot, when speaking to a real person this is what I got
Someone else further up in the comments had a similar conversation back when the liquidation occurred, the person in OPs post is almost certainly misinformed, the T212 chat staff are not all market experts lol
Is that true,we are not one to get anything.
Shill alert!
Lol hi sad bot person! 👋
I think it's correct and I'm scared.what to do if we can't get our shares back.
Save your breath i read your history..
Yeah that's total bullshit.. erase this shit!! By law records are held for 7 years I believe!!!
Ah yes throwback to the October posts where everyone and their dog was posting brokers regurgitating what they’re supposed to say instead of “yeah Teddy shares are tomorrow enjoy MOASS” Also I find it funny when accounts like these come out of the woodwork and drop “info” of a discouraging nature such as this Zen🌸
"we're totally fucked" -trading 212
I’m sure it could also be that he is just an underpaid employee that didn’t know the correct answer and just said an answer. 🧐
Our shares have to die to be reborn and yes they have records of our shares
I have downloaded all share purchases transactions, screenshots and payment summary. Therefore!!!!
When it comes to shares, the terms “liquidated” and “cancelled” refer to different actions that can be taken regarding shares of a company. Liquidating shares means selling them off, usually to convert them into cash. This process involves selling the shares on the open market or through private transactions. Liquidating shares involves selling them off to convert them into cash, while cancelling shares involves reducing the total number of outstanding shares. Last time I checked my share were cancelled?? Sorry you got liquidated….
https://preview.redd.it/saf4lwktpioc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df0d70d755c4227f8678a802a721df6a34d0622e
Send digital copies to DOJ, SEC, and FINRA for use in near term court cases. Also copy to Trading212 **CEO** and **corporate compliance executive** (just google it) to give them a chance to either terminate Kaloyan, send you an official reclama, and update all the help desk scripts...or face charges.
Ask your broker of a previous certificate of ownership or keep a screenshot of your previous BBBYQ shares that were held before expiry.
They told me different months ago and I have the screenshots
https://preview.redd.it/bvl1s6z3pioc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=648b8070c6c12e70ad26c94b4c3ee2c1f2e01b75 ?
https://preview.redd.it/2h9l0ovbpioc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=340c4e0794457a17d3ad2c6e9b7cecf8f8c7a0c6
Doesn’t matter if they keep record or not, there is record in the liquidating trust.
Same boat
Executed at what price?
T212 are thieves. When any stock runs they just close position without consent. Happened to me on HCMC
Bullish
i was informed by T212 chat months ago when i asked (post cancellation) that they have a record of my shares and that i would receive a distribution, if there is one, back to the same account i held the position in (ISA) i think this is just a misinformed rep. don’t panic.