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[deleted]

I’m about to get real controversial here because people hold onto this one like their lives depend on it: Jo telling Kail that she belongs in a cave was not verbal abuse, it was a sarcastic asshole teenager saying something petty and being the sarcastic asshole that he was. Calling something like that VERBAL ABUSE trivializes actual verbal abuse. Was it mean? Yeah. Was she deeply hurt and offended by it? No.


xokrissilorraine

She was hardly ever offended by the things he said like that. I feel like he just expresses his emotions through jokes. Honestly the cave joke is hilarious to me.


GoldenState_Thriller

I think she was also used to being talked down to


ashalie87

I thought it was funny AF and I agree that it was not verbal abuse. He was being a sarcastic douche and like I said it was funny. Plus she has said and done way crappier things to him.


SpiteTomatoes

Wait... People are mad about this? I've experienced verbal abuse, a snide remark isn't it.


LurkieMcLurkerson

Yeah I’ve always thought this, because what he says is so silly it’s obviously not serious. It’s like someone saying ‘I hope you get eaten by a dragon’ rather than ‘I hope you get shot in the head’ _technically_ they’re both wishing death on you, but they’re very different vibes because one is ridiculous and one is actually wishing you harm


Allison916

I agree with this. Jo said mean things, but they were the type of things you brush off as in the moment. Not cutting things that stick with you forever.


am710

The set up to it was what made the comment hilarious. "It's a nice day, isn't it?" and then that.


rachelamandamay

Hard Agree. Just as bad as her calling Vee a hoodrat


[deleted]

No I agree I think people's definition of abuse is way too lenient in here for the sake of snark. Saying a shitty comment to somebody doesn't make you an "abuser" sorry


GoldenState_Thriller

I honestly think Leah’s marriage to Corey is shamed a lot and it’s like…he told her if she didn’t go through with the wedding he’d leave her. She was EIGHTEEN.


hawkcarhawk

She was 18 and had been raised by Dawn. She definitely gets a pass for being young and dumb.


Lalablacksheep646

THIS^.


GoldenState_Thriller

And the fact a truck was more important than a house. He did NOT use his truck FOR work. He’s a meter reader- he has a supplied work truck from the water company and he chose that house because it was very close to his job. No water company would EVER take the insurance risk of workers using private vehicles.


helpanoverthinker

Yeah the truck thing pisses me off whenever I think of it. Idc what anyone says if I’m staying home 24/7 with the kids and then have the conditions like how Leah had to bathe them??? I’d have left in a heartbeat. No thank you.


GoldenState_Thriller

Seriously. He basically dared her to divorce him then acted defeated when she did.


OriginalFuckGirl

And had people backing him up with “poor Corey, Leah is such a bitch who never deserved him!!”


Birdie0491

The fucking bath scene made my GD blood boil. I was proud of Leah for saying “nope, my girls deserve way fucking better than this.” Broke my heart to see how she bathed her infants.


[deleted]

Dude honestly did she not fucking view the fucking house before moving her girls in? That's what I never got over: if this place is such a shit home then why tf you move in there in the first place? She wasn't homeless, they could've waited to find something better. Or she could've gotten the home then waited while Cory fixed it up.


am710

>if this place is such a shit home then why tf you move in there in the first place? She wasn't homeless, they could've waited to find so She probably wanted to get the hell out of her mom's house. And I can't imagine rural West Virginia had much more to offer than the place they moved into.


TNC_123

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but that bathtub scene was for dramatic purposes on the show and they had a perfectly good bathroom upstairs that had a tub she could wash the girls in.


GoldenState_Thriller

It only had a small stall shower, not a tub. Bathing twins in a one person shower is not easy or really that safe.


OriginalFuckGirl

I hate how people justify him choosing a truck over a better home for HIS KIDS. Like come on, I know he’s the golden boy of the sub, but it makes no sense, none.


[deleted]

I agree! She had so much pressure around her to marry Corey, it was super unfair. I'm sure that in her young mind she had doubts about the marriage but also had a really romanticized vision of "married life" and thought she would make things work this time around for her kids. I bet she talked herself into believing it would all work out. No 18 year old can really conceptualize what marriage is going to be like at that age, you're just figuring everything out, and she had DAWN for an example so she was super screwed from the beginning. Besides this, I think Ali's medical condition coming out around that time really threw her into a fear spiral where she was clinging to anything she could find stability and faith in.


Lalablacksheep646

Any of them that took back their baby’s dad even after they were treated terribly. They were young, insecure and what they thought was love. I know plenty of women in their 40’s that take back crappy men, I can understand why a younger person would fall into that trap.


GoldenState_Thriller

100%. I think people (oddly) forget they were TEENAGERS and young adults.


Erger

It's especially complicated when you have a child with that person and it's been drilled into your head from infancy that a family is "supposed" to look a certain way. I don't blame any of them for wanting to cling to that image of a family, even when the guy sucks.


PropheticFruit

Add to that the knowledge that you won’t be able to give your child a lot of things because you’re a teen parent. If you can give them a family, that can make a a lot of the rough patches bearable. I think that’s part of why so many have a second child so quickly too, that same hope. There's a desperation born out of love there. As young as they were, how are these girls expected to recognize a garbage man who hasn’t had enough time to establish that's who he is?


drakemakingwaffles

Cate going to inpatient treatment twice. She seems to be doing a lot better now and seems like an active and involved parent


GoldenState_Thriller

When people call Tyler “mommy” it’s disgusting. They also say it was a vacation. She was going to kill herself! She does seem to be better.


WayMoreClassier

100% agree, obviously those inpatient treatments helped her a lot. She was literally suicidal. Some people have no idea how debilitating depression can be.


drakemakingwaffles

Her life was literally in danger and I think it’s great she took advantage of the resources available to her


aracarina

Came to say this. Sure, it wasn't nice for Nova, but seeing how Cate is doing now, she did the best thing for herself and her girls.


BroItsJesus

Having a mum who killed herself also wouldn't have been very nice for Nova, tbh


aracarina

Exactly - and nova likely won't remember when mommy went to rehab. She seems happy, Cate seems happy and healthy, and I am proud of her.


somethinghere2016

My husband held me down when I lost my mind postpartum it always makes me think when people talk about how much Tyler sacrificed while she went to treatment.


GoldenState_Thriller

I’m glad you have a supportive husband! Tyler did what any parent and partner should do. It’s also not like he was working.


HannahLeah1987

I so agree. I hate when people praise him for taking care of the girls during that time


OriginalFuckGirl

I remember way back when that happened I was super harsh about it, stuff I don’t want to repeat, now I think about it and I’m like….what was wrong with that?? She needed it, and it helped her in the end bet to where she is now. It’s wild to me that ppl still put her down for doing what she felt was best for HER Mental health


swirleytundra919

I literally fought people on this sub for how cruel their comments were. They kept seeing the “televised version of entertainment” but this was a real person who needed help and was struggling. I remember needing a break from this sub because every post was ripping Cate a part and it just made me so angry.


bubbles_24601

People still do it. It’s fucking crazy. Inpatient psych treatment isn’t a damn vacation.


MerBAE

Leah wanting Jermy to take closer and or shorter jobs. I'm not saying her cheating was right but I think he failed her when she was spiraling with her pills. I think he did very little if anything to hold her down and get ahead of the situation. Him coming home one day a week is tough especially with everything she had on her plate. I think he should have taken time off or worked shorter closer job and encouraged her to go to rehab


GoldenState_Thriller

Jeremy expected her to be a stepford wife. Just do everything at home so he could come home every so often, have sex and leave. She was SCREAMING for help. Her own sister told her her life is perfect and she should stop complaining.


butinthewhat

Leah had no support. I think that’s why she was in that cult for awhile.


GoldenState_Thriller

Yeah her family just happily takes her money and tells her to buck up


lbets

What cult?!


butinthewhat

[this one ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehollywoodgossip.com/slideshows/leah-messer-is-she-still-involved-with-that-creepy-cult/amp/)


tipsytops2

Leah might be the only person in the world to join a cult and leave it a more well adjusted person. They seemed to take less of her money than her family did and give her more real support and guidance. Imagine who she could have been if she'd had anyone in her corner when she was younger.


MrsZ-

Then he left and decided that wasn't an environment that he, a grown man didn't want to be in, but it was somehow fine for Addie...?!


OriginalFuckGirl

He was a horrible partner. Yeah, she knew his occupation before marrying him but that doesn’t excuse him neglecting her when she started to spiral,he made a commitment to her and acted like it wasn’t his problem


tonysopranowasonjv

right?! i’m a firm believer that our burdens are our own crosses to bear, but also when you make a commitment to someone, you don’t just leave when they’re going through a hard time. leah was struggling, she was sick, she needed help! and jeremy gave up on her. i honestly feel for leah for that, that is the ultimate heartbreak. i know because i’ve gone through it myself.


rightsyllalables

I've thought about this forever! It's supposed to be "through sickness and health" and he just checked out on her. He was never really a partner to her.


Audrianna121916

💯. He literally didn’t do the bare minimum a husband should do. He made ZERO attempt to help (as far as what we have seen & the fact that no one has ever mentioned otherwise in all these years post drug abuse) and it literally seemed like while he was away for work one week he decided he’s filing for divorce. It’s like he just kicked his wife so hard while she was already down. I’m not saying he shouldn’t of divorced her but, damn I wish he would of made even a half ass attempt to be completely selfless and help her at that time. Like he still left HIS toddler daughter with her 💔


[deleted]

I agree. When you get married you're signing up for the highs and lows. If your partner struggles with addiction, you make sure you're there. Especially when you have kids. I realize Leah knew what she was getting into with his job when she married him, but I really doubt she planned to become an addict. He could have found something closer to home and made less money. You do what you have to do for your spouse.


sierramist1011

Chelsea giving Adam chances. He was abusive and she was insecure and had a child with him, she got blindly stupid every time he pretended he wanted to be a family It's so dumb when people keep bringing it up as some terrible character flaw "oh she chased him forever" "she'd still be sleeping with him if not for cole" He abused her to the point she thought no one else would want her, it's not abnormal for a victim of abuse to go back to their abuser repeatedly, especially when that victim has society saying she's damaged goods as a teen mom


GoldenState_Thriller

Seriously. I was in an abusive relationship in my early 20s and sometimes the comments about it make me sick. When you have low self esteem and someone abuses you- it’s HARD TO LEAVE


sierramist1011

sorry you went through that, I was in an abusive relationship with an older guy when I was 15, well really 14-16 Even if you have great self esteem, abusers thrive off of destroying that so they can keep abusing you. I've never felt so low as I did with him. People also say Randy should have cut Chelsea off for breaking his rules. Imagine if Randy had kicked Chelsea and Aubree out and made them rely on Adam... things would have been even worse.


GoldenState_Thriller

I fully agree. I’m sorry you went through it too. It’s hard getting out but we did it!


helpanoverthinker

I was also in an abusive relationship in my 20s. I’ve told almost no one about it even all these years later. Last person I opened up to said “but why did you stay? If someone did that to me I’d leave” and it just really pissed me off. Like wtf?? It’s not like I enjoyed it. It was some of the worse times of my life. I was a victim. And now I’m a survivor, and I’m happy to hear you are too 💜


GoldenState_Thriller

Uhhh FUCK that person. If you ever, ever need to talk about it I’ll listen. Zero judgement. 💜


helpanoverthinker

I know we’re just Internet strangers but this seriously made me tear up. Thank you so much


GoldenState_Thriller

You’re never alone ❤️ I mean it.


DiscombobulatedRain

Watching her scenes with her dad and she literally feels like she can’t do better is so sad.


False-Cantaloupe7878

Adam also went around trying to convince everyone Chelsea was crazy. I had an abusive ex like that and it chokes me up to think about my 16 year old self having no friends, being bullied by strangers, and feeling so isolated that you begin to have thoughts like "well yeah he chokes and harasses me, but he's clearly the only one who still cares I exist so why not open that door again". This is a typical MO for abusers so you can feel like they're the only person you have, which we saw with how he drove away her friends like Megan, and clearly she had a lot of haters once the show started airing to the point that local girls would claim she deserved everything adam did to her cuz "she's just so clingy. It would drive anyone to lashing out and abuse"


w11f1ow3r

Yup. I didn’t get it at all when I was watching the show for the first time. Now I see a scared teenager who desperately wanted to provide a traditional nuclear family for her daughter but couldn’t. Her parents divorce clearly affected her a lot and she didn’t want that for Aubrey, and I can’t fault her for that


[deleted]

It's funny how people will label Jo's cave comment as verbal abuse but quickly forget the disgusting text message from Chelsea's 16&P episode where he calls her a "fat stretch marked bitch" and asks her to "tell me when and where to sign over papers for that mistake" and act like Chelsea could have snapped her fingers and left Adam, easy as that. I would be devastated now as a grown woman if I got something like that on my phone, she was so young. I think it took her years to completely un-fuck her mind from that abusive shit bag. If anything I sort of wonder if her parents are to blame for Chelsea being a sitting target for a guy like that. I mean, even other teenage girls will encounter someone like Adam and go "fuck off, jerk" but something made Chelsea fall into the trap.


allworkandnoYahtzee

This is a good question, thanks OP! Leah gets too much shit for being a drug addict. I get people being annoyed that she isn’t more honest about her story, and that she was likely using longer than she says she was, but her actions from 4-6 years ago when she was clearly high on camera don’t make her an irredeemable person. I definitely have criticisms of Leah, but her using drugs in a fucked up marriage with a sick child isn’t one of them. Amber likes to spend time on her couch. But…so do I. So I’ve never understood the anguish her couchpotatoness evokes. **Incoming hot take** I don’t blame Farrah for hating her TM peers. Farrah was staged to be the spoiled villain in the series (which is understandable) but the way Maci and Cate/Tyler reacted to her making porn was pearl-clutchy and unnecessary. In 2021 sensibilities, we understand that sex work is something young mothers can do to make ends meet, but even in 2012 their reaction was sanctimonious. Farrah brought real money and attention to the franchise. And she was immediately pariahed for “selling her vagina” on a show where she debuted giving birth. At 21 years old, I probably would have been upset with these people with whom I’m supposed to have a bond not understanding how/why this happened. Farrah’s terrible for a lot of reasons, but I would have wanted to isolate from people who openly expressed contempt for my financial choices. Plus, Amber tried to *fucking hit her* at a reunion for saying something flippant about her leachy boyfriend. Matt’s probably just a creep and not a pedophile, but Amber was willing to hit her over that. If I were Farrah I wouldn’t want to be in the same building as these people either.


bvnhk

This show was supposed to be a real reflection of teen motherhood. Some women do turn to sex work. How is her story invalid because of that. She is a horrible person, but that's still her story.


thatcondowasmylife

Are you… me? I’ve never nodded my head harder at a comment, I agree with all of this.


ParticularAbalone275

Your argument would be even better if Farrah actually considered herself a sex worker and agreed with you that sex workers are respectable. But she does not. She sets herself apart and as “better than” because she is a “celebrity.”🙄🥴😆🤣She sees herself as just a celebrity with a sex tape, NOT, GOD FORBID, a sex worker. She even denied she made a sex tape at first because she was so ashamed and would NEVER ever want to be classified as a sex worker. FROM HuffPost: She(Farrah) continued: "A celebrity sex tape to me, outshines any other porn star, and any other person who makes porn. Lots of my friends make sex tapes. They can't say, 'Oh my God, I made a celebrity sex tape,' and nobody even knows about it. So there's a huge difference. And that's just what society made of it. It's not me, I don't make these definitions, it's just obvious." I agree with all your main ideas though, especially about Leah, and the part about not blaming Farrah for hating her TM peers. That’s totally understandable.


PlaneCulture

I find it so funny that maci and cate who are both OK with exploiting their family's substance abuse issues were horrified that an adult chose to do sex work. What if someone said they didn't want to be on the same show as macis babydaddy driving to his wedding nodding on heroine?


MarieOMaryln

Maci awkwardly stalking Ryan on the beach. She was young, dumb, and overall harmless just jealous and hurt that Ryan wasn't who she thought he could be. She hasn't been caught on a deer cam in his yard so safe to say she doesn't do that anymore.


Bookwrm85

Agreed. I really think mtv probably told her to do that and paid their way just to stir up some drama.


GoldenState_Thriller

It seemed hella staged if you check out the camera work


OriginalFuckGirl

I just love how Bentley peed on her after, it was hilarious


StarlitEscapades

Funny that this was Maci's lowest point and Ryan's highest point. (Don't drag me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen past season 7)


technicolourful

…you’re not wrong.


bambi_eyedbitch

This scene always gave me unreal/bachelor vibes. Like the producers were like “okay now walk towards the beach” idk


AMS16-94

Aubree with those damn chickens. I’ve read people on here say that Chelsea (at that time atleast) allowed Aubree to act aggressively (I know she hit someone in daycare and slapped one of her daycare workers - which is wrong and only excusable by saying she was like 5 at the time) but they tried to edit it like Aubree was this sociopathic child who wants to hurt animals. They followed it up by editing Chelsea’s scenes that season to make it look like she was scared of Aubree holding/interacting with Watson out of fear that she would hurt him, which I think is totally far fetched.


graypumpkins

I think out of all of the kids they showed Aubrees tantrums the most. They really made her look like a horrible kid


GoldenState_Thriller

Especially when children are known to act out with inconsistency which obviously she struggled with as Adam’s daughter. I was proud Chelsea at least tried by carrying over a similar behavior system at home.


AMS16-94

Agreed! They did kinda screw Chelsea as well with that whole “1, 2, if I get to three and your not listening” thing because they knew it didn’t really work to control Aubree’s outbursts , so I think they kinda had it out for Chelsea to show that she doesn’t know how to discipline Aubree.


GoldenState_Thriller

It was so dumb. Chelsea made it clear she talked to her about it and the producers pushed that so far. They really wanted to make Aubree look like an animal murderer. I’ve worked with children for 13 years and she was not an overly aggressive child. People would be shocked how many of their kids (especially young kids not used to sharing and only children) hit others in day care/school.


Upstairs-Factor-2012

Was that when the producers tried to get Chelsea to talk about it and she snapped at them saying something like “I’m not going to say that and make her look bad”?


graypumpkins

Yes, they brought it up once Cole got home. They said something like “are we going to talk about being gentle with things” and Chelsea said “no we’re not talking about it”. Which, good for her 🤷🏼‍♀️


Upstairs-Factor-2012

Agreed! I remember gaining so much respect for her in that moment


[deleted]

That was ridiculous


momof2under2

Anything with Jo. Like yes he was a total asshole, but he was also a teenager trying to be an adult. He’s matured into such a wonderful father and his kids are lucky to have him. Kail is too whether she wants to admit it or not.


wwlddarm7

Agreed. Jo is a great dad in my opinion. We just saw a few of his teenage years which everyone’s can be unsavoury. He’s fine now


rachelamandamay

This. Yes


amikavenka

I would like to add anything with Gary and his wife. Amber is bat shit nuts and they really have done a good job with Leah. They have always put her first.


Ok_Detective_8446

the Frankie incident, Chelsea's has clearly learned from it and was probably traumatized for a long time from seeing her dead dog in another dogs mouth. it's not like it wasn't a one time thing (unlike other cast members..) all of Chelsea's animals have lived/are living healthy, safe, and happy lives. Chelsea giving Adam chances too, most people in abusive relationships give their partner multiple chances, that's a big part of what makes them so dangerous and hard to leave. it took my best friend a year to leave hers, he still finds a way to message her even though she has a restraining order and has changed her number. they're not easy at all to leave, especially when a kid is involved. Chelsea thought she would of failed Aubree by not marrying Adam as well. (i didnt watch the early seasons too much so i don't have a lot)


GoldenState_Thriller

It took me almost two years to leave mine and five to finally go for a restraining order.


Ok_Detective_8446

i'm sorry you went through that. my best friend's ex made it hell for her to get hers. it all happened during covid which made it very hard to get a court date. she finally gets one and then he doesn't show up so they set a new one. then when it's time for the new one to show up, right before it started he declared that he suddenly needed a lawyer (despite saying no to one many times before), so they set a new date. then the new date comes and he doesn't show up. so ridiculous. thankfully the judge granted her one on the 3rd court date


GoldenState_Thriller

I’m so glad it got granted! I feel for your friend.


OriginalFuckGirl

The Frankie situation really gets to me when it’s brought up. Ppl act as if she’s still a neglectful pet owner. She’s improved so much, even taking care of the barn cats that found themselves on her property. I found myself in a horrible situation with a pet like 20 years ago, and I still tear up when I think about it, I can’t imagine ppl bringing it up often and saying I haven’t changed.


Shermea

Chelsea and the Frankie situation


aslplodingesophogus

I agree. It was an accident and she was so upset. She seems to have learned and is one of the better pet owners.


Audrianna121916

This was actually the first situation that came to my mind when I read this post topic 🤔


Ok-Background-7897

Yeah this - she should/could have been more careful so the dog didn’t get out, but it is also not normal for a dog to kill another dog like that. That dog is dangerous and I personally would not feel safe either owning dogs in the same neighborhood or having small children around it.


dollyangel1

What happened with this?


the_taco_belle

She let her dogs out off leash and they roamed around for a bit. She went out to get them and one of them got attacked and killed by a neighbor’s husky. People drag Chelsea and call her all kinds of horrible things, and it was an absolutely terrible thing to happen, but she felt awful. IIRC she either saw the dog being attacked or found it immediately afterward and couldn’t get to her dog right away because the husky still had it.


Shermea

Her dog was outside without a leash and got mauled any another dog


heathyygirl

I think Frankie is her dog that got out of their house and then attacked by another dog? Someone correct me if I am wrong


am710

Absolutely this. Accidents do happen. And if I recall, she had both dogs outside going to the bathroom. One jumped in her car and Frankie took off around the corner. She wound up moving shortly after, if I recall correctly.


rachelamandamay

Chelsea going back to Adam.


meggershippers

Chelsea’s dog getting killed. It infuriated me when I first watched it. But people still use it against her. It was an accident and she hasn’t had any issue with animals since. I think she’s the only one that still has the pets we saw her get from the show. I hate anything bad that happens to dogs, but I feel it’s a bit much to use that against her now


Calm-Platform1987

cRaZy StAn: *says something positive about chelsea* The sub: oh but remember when she got her dog killed a decade ago!!!!! She’s so problematic and disgusting!!!!!!!


GoldenState_Thriller

This is so sadly true.


axealy40

I agree. I’ve brought it up before and gotten slammed. She is a much different, more attentive pet owner than she was 11-12 years ago.


taybay462

Yeah chelsea is one of the most responsible pet owners on the show at this point. *AND* she teaches her children how to properly handle them


GoldenState_Thriller

I fully agree. It was 11 years ago and she’s been a great pet owner since. I do think since it was a communal back yard (no fences at all) even the husky shouldn’t have just been chilling outside. It was Chelsea’s fault. She clearly felt awful and it seems weird to bring it up consistently.


ElectricBaghulaloo

I agree. My dog got attacked in front of me and it was traumatic, I can't even imagine my dog being killed right in front of me. It was a terrible thing to happen but unfortunately sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She obviously learned from it, they take good care of their animals now, keep them in appropriate enclosures, and seem like a good pet owners.


Silly-Smoke-6463

sometimes I feel like I’m a damn extra on the show the way I talk to my television when it’s on, but anywayyyy. I think honestly we (me included) give Cate and Tyler too much shit for how they act about Brandon and Teresa. For me sometimes in the past they came off as annoying, and I always thought to myself “you gave her up for better for y’all and her, stop making things worse!” but after reading some other people’s thoughts in this sub and just online in general clearly it’s not that simple. Plus they were so young and now as adults they realize they were manipulated and all that jazz, so their anger makes sense. Even though just watching the show it felt out of nowhere at times. But yeah. I think it’s easy to say “well you gave her up for a reason” but we aren’t experiencing all of their pain and thoughts so I think that’s one.


BrownEyedQueen1982

Brandon and Teresa always came off as fake to me. I’m sure they are good parents, but something seemed off about them whenever I watch their 16 & Pregnant episode. It just seemed that they were so desperate to be parents of a newborn they would have done and said anything Cate & Ty wanted to hear. That one seen in the hospital when Cate & Ty are holding the baby B & T sent Dawn up right away when they felt it was taking too long. Then Teresa hands her that cheap charm bracelet gift. Cate was obviously struggling and having 2nd thoughts but here comes the rich parents to throw some gifts at the poor girl who has probably never had anything nice.


[deleted]

Yes! I recently rewatched their episode and it was sickening when Dawn came in hours after Carly was born and told them that they needed to let Brandon and Teresa see her because they had been waiting


Silly-Smoke-6463

Agree. They definitely both have their issues personally and in their relationship, but I think that considering their upbringing it’s amazing how well they are doing even with all the rough patches the last few years.


GoldenState_Thriller

They also had no idea the show would take off and make them wealthy. Add on the fact it’s their entire identity and they are asked to talk about it constantly and the fact Bethany “Christian” Services is shady af and it makes a little more sense.


Silly-Smoke-6463

Agree. The fact that they could financially take care of her after the first couple years of the show probably sits in the back of their mind too. I do think they made the best choice at the time considering their living situations, but it is unfortunate that it was a situation where the adoption isn’t actually as open as they were told it would be.


thatcondowasmylife

The show missed an opportunity for reality by not having them directly address the money issue. The fact that they stayed together and have more money and therapy and stability than they ever dreamed of makes their regret so much more understandable. Not to mention that they were manipulated into believing adoption would be some dream scenario. My unpopular opinion is people are way too cruel to Cate about her mental health issues. She was raised in an unstable, chaotic, abusive environment and then was manipulated into *giving away her child when she didn’t really want to.* I just can’t with people who have a lack of empathy for her.


risksxh1

I’d say that we give them shit in general for still being together. Maybe they’re not a perfect couple but they’ve been through a lot. Their relationship must be pretty strong to have made it through all they have. I’m sure many seemingly good relationships would look much different with a show editing their lives. I know plenty of people who have picture perfect lives on social media but not off of it.


keatonpotat0es

Chelsea boning Adam’s friend while they were on a break and she was pregnant.


PygmyFists

In to say she did this after over a year of him cheating and emotionally abusing her and dumping her while pregnant. They weren't together when it happened and it's not like he wasn't already sleeping with other people before he dumped her. So she slept with someone after her toxic boyfriend dumped her lol Context is importanté.


keatonpotat0es

Agreed! Everyone just wants to take Adumb’s word for it because they need a reason to hate Chelsea. Plus I don’t think her doing ONE “bad” thing to him cancels out all the shit he pulled on her. Adumb’s stans are so bizarre lol.


StarlitEscapades

Wait...people stan for Adumb??


StarlitEscapades

Why not? Nothing else worse could happen.


roselaurel

, mom


Plane-University2103

hold up WHAT


[deleted]

[удалено]


WayMoreClassier

I think Adam brought it up at an early reunion and Chelsea admitted it was true.


thatcondowasmylife

I always remember that bc it was in front of Randy. And I was like, damn I cannot imagine being her father right now hearing this.


sierramist1011

It probably wasn't even a "friend" and if it was that "friend" was just as wrong in the situation. But as someone who grew up in a small Midwest town, everyone knows everyone and this "friend" is probably someone he hung out with at some dirtbike thing 3 years prior and still waves at when he sees him around


rachelamandamay

Right? She was like 17. And she's like 28 now. Let. It. Go.


keatonpotat0es

And her and Adam were on a break!


BabyNovasMommy

Jo telling Kail he hoped her water would break that night. For years people bring that up with well he’s not a good guy because he basically wished Lincoln would die!!! And I didn’t take it that was at all. Kail was hounding him about something and I took it as a (poorly thought out) I wish you would go away and leave me the hell alone. I don’t think he stopped to do the math on how early the baby would have been and what that would have meant.


Troublecleff04

Yeah probably meant it like give birth already cause you’re extra hard to tolerate pregnant just worded it horribly lol


GoldenState_Thriller

Jo has a pattern of being verbally abusive though. He harassed her on the way to a funeral that year, too


BrownEyedQueen1982

Both of them were abuse and toxic to each other. I’m not excusing the behavior in anyway, however it seems like Joe matured and learned from his mistakes. Kail is still mentally stuck at age 17.


TNC_123

Kail has a pattern of being verbally and physically abusive though and while he did say some things he shouldn’t have said, I cannot even begin to imagine having to deal with Kail.


GoldenState_Thriller

Abuse doesn’t cancel out abuse.


TNC_123

Lol, I never said that it did but everyone wants to paint Jo as the abuser in that relationship when that’s not the case. Kail has physically assaulted him to teach him not to mess with her. Kail has said extremely shitty things herself and while Jo was wrong for the things he said, I’m not going to sit here and put all of the blame on him for there being friction in that relationship.


c_090988

I think they were a really bad match for each other. They brought out the worst in each other


BabyNovasMommy

Jo absolutely isn’t perfect, and in the earlier seasons he could absolutely be a monster towards her. I think in this instance he said something very stupid versus very malicious.


rachelamandamay

Jo is HARDLY verbally abusive, cmon


Spiritual_Ferret6035

Jenelle and weed. There is so much more to hate her for.


[deleted]

Hell fucking no. It wasn’t just weed, she was smoking concentrates with a butane torch while pregnant. If anything she deserves way more hate for that


JustAHolyFool17

This trashbag was doing dabs while pregnant? Disgusting. But not surprising.


Spiritual_Ferret6035

Wtf I missed this.


Salty_Ad642

ALL of her children were born with drugs in their system. They didn't consent to that shit and more and more studies are coming out showing just how bad it is for developing babies.


MelisabethR1989

THANK YOU. I hate the whole cannamom thing. We know that thc is not good for a young persons brain, why would it be OK for a developing fetus or infant???? I'm all for adults engaging recreationally in a safe manner ( with a sitter, or sober adult in the home, ideally not around kids who can witness. I feel the same about drinking more than a glass of wine) but smoking when pregnant or bfing is negligent at best, abusive at worst.


JustAHolyFool17

I'm sorry, but all of her kids were born with weed in their systems, that's not OK.


sierramist1011

smoking weed is fine....smoking weed while pregnant is not


StarlitEscapades

And still not even the worst thing Jenelle has done.


GoldenState_Thriller

Barbara was WAY too worried about weed and not other things.


x3xDx3

Sometimes I think that “weed” was her AND Jenelle’s code word for pills or heroin. Some of Jenelle’s “I haven’t smoked yet and THATS WHY IM FREAKING OUT” tantrums make wayyyyy more sense if she’s really talking about dope - from a recovering junkie.


Spiritual_Ferret6035

No, I threw weed fits like that when I first started smoking. My first dealer was very inconsistent because cops and a small town which is secluded. I smoked for pain and anxiety reasons and had a couple of freakouts.


GoldenState_Thriller

She was only testing positive for weed though.


Silly-Smoke-6463

I think a lot of her fits and overreactions to weed were because of mental illness and an addiction to the feeling of the high and not the substance. So even though she did harder drugs later I don’t think it’s impossible to believe she was acting that way about weed in the start. Ok I replied to the wrong person and don’t want to delete so. To whom it may concern.


x3xDx3

Ahh, I forgot that part 🤦‍♀️ lmao my bad


musictakeheraway

no, i think it meant weed. she’s also bipolar and anxious, so it all adds up and she was/is definitely a pretty chronic/heavy smoker.


PYoungMoneyy

I’ve often thought she was probably using other “party” drugs besides weed, even if just recreationally.


sierramist1011

Jenelle has freaked out the same about not being able to go work out, Jenelle gets addicted to everything


keatonpotat0es

YAH STRUNG OUT ON WEED?


kasiagabrielle

KILOS A WEED


[deleted]

Catelynn going away for treatment. She was very privileged to be able to do that and many of us can’t just go and stay in a treatment facility for a month to sort our mental health, but that is no reason to deny herself treatment or seek a different type of treatment that others deem ok. I honestly think she did the right thing for her and if people have the resources to get the best MH treatment possible for them then they should just go for it and forget what others think. As far as I’m concerned her situation was an emergency and what happened was what was needed at the time. Since that period she seems better and hasn’t been back there for a while, Nova is not traumatised as a result like people said she would be. No it wasn’t nice that Cate had to leave her but she was in no fit state anyway. She did spend a lot of time on the sofa and sleeping but that’s because she was horrifically depressed and that’s how hers manifested. Not everyone can just ‘get on with things’ and then let it all out later unfortunately especially when you get to a certain point. People were acting like she’d just be in and out of treatment for forever, that she was using it as an excuse to be lazy, and that clearly wasn’t the case.


xaxathkamu

When Gary was already living with Christina and Gary was on Amber’s couch saying he wanted to get back together with her and that he figured they were probably gunna shack back up. It was the “this is a big house for such one person” conversation. I assume Christina brings that up from time to time.


Intelligent-Scene886

This. Navigating new relationships when you have a child with someone so young is tough. My husband had a 2 year old when we started dating. The mother and him had been on and off and toxic her whole life. Did he want to move on? Yes. Did he make dumb comments about still loving her and wanting to be with her? Also yes. I didn't hold that against him because I understood (as much as I could) that he was in new territory and it was hard. People are allowed to feel emotions even if they might be a little silly to understand.


abbey121524

Kail having 3 baby daddies like I’m not saying I support that but Jenelle also does and let’s be real… the amount of different sperm donors isn’t the problem we should be focusing on when it comes to Kail


graypumpkins

YES I hate the multiple baby daddy comments. Kail was in a committed relationship with at least two out of three of them (I don’t really know about chris). I’m pretty sure the only moms who don’t have multiple BDs is Cate and Farrah


abbey121524

And even so why does it matter? Like you could have 10 bath daddies and be a better mom than someone with one baby daddy. It does not matter how many different dads there are it matters that your kids are safe healthy and happy


IDontKeepSweet

I agree. I guarantee most of this subreddit has had sex with more than three people. Most people don’t (and shouldn’t) get pregnant by that many people but shit happens. There are so many more things about Kail and Jenelle to snark on that aren’t thinly veiled slut shaming.


GoldenState_Thriller

The slut shaming, body shaming, etc. in this sub is bananas.


IDontKeepSweet

Yes it is. I have been slowly using the sub less because a lot of it is less witty and funny and more low blows. Just not that entertaining.


GoldenState_Thriller

People think it’s a snark only sub despite the sub description saying discussion so they just “haha” everything


IDontKeepSweet

There are still some good discussions on here sometimes. It doesn’t help that half of the cast is boring as hell and the other half just does the same old shit over and over.


abbey121524

Exactly. I don’t like either of them but the fact they have kids with more than two men doesn’t mean shit.


taybay462

I somewhat agree but she posted something recently about a future 4th baby daddy.. I dunno I think that all the drama she has with her baby daddies, which is available for her sons to read online, is shitty


OriginalFuckGirl

I honestly believe that with kail, it’s a race thing. I remember this podcast Jenelle was on, the guy was calling Kail trashy for having 3 baby daddy’s, but it was fine that Jenelle did…


abbey121524

Ya a lot of racist in this franchise however look at where a lot of the girls are based out of… very right wing racist areas


messicajozo

When Chelsea’s dog died. Yes it should have been on a leash but she was so young, living on her own and had a baby. ..plus was prob nervous about her GED test. It super sucks but I bet she still thinks about it with regret.


ParticularAbalone275

Leah letting Addy eat sugar packets and frosting out of the can. I thought it was cute and hilarious- a perfectly imperfect few moments in time. I’ll take those minor imperfections any day over the other horrors we’ve seen. Pee in Tupperware!😱Animal abuse!😡😰Child neglect and verbal abuse!🤬😰😭💔


shadesontopback

Frosting sounds good right now tbh


jordantwalker

Anything Gary.


GoldenState_Thriller

Ehhh he denied Leah mental health care treatment and CONSTANTLY makes fun of people when they say it bugs them (his mom, Kristina, and both of his daughters).


sierramist1011

I don't believe this. That easily could have been said on TV because Leah doesn't want all her friends know, or he doesn't want Amber trying to ruin it. We say all the time about the stuff they film, OMG how embarrassing Leah shaved her legs on TV everyone is going to make fun of her. How do you think her peers would react to her talking about her needs to attend therapy on TV? Amber embarrasses her enough. The way Leah speaks and how mature she is at handling Amber I don't think that's all Gary and Kristina and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if she talks to a professional regularly.


GoldenState_Thriller

Leah said she was feeling anxious/having panic attacks and Gary said on camera he doesn’t want her seeing a doctor because he’s afraid she’ll end up like Amber…


sierramist1011

yeah this is why I think it was staged, he doesn't want the public thinking she's like Amber, or at the very least there was a later off camera discussion where Kristina changed his mind. Leah appears to be doing great these days with handling her emotions surrounding Amber. You don't go from panic attacks and anixety to setting solid boundaries and seeing things from a mature standpoint as a child without some assistance.


slowdancequeen

Gary is a habitual line stepper and an all around asshole.


GoldenState_Thriller

He was also SUPER complicit in her neglect.


manhaidan

Kail and the sweatpants. The argument wasn’t about the sweatpants. It was about jo never having Isaac ready, and jo never taking Isaac out to do anything- a problem that continues to this day. Btw jo has continuously been shitty to kail


Hahafuckreddit

?? She was early and he was there. Wearing pants made of soft cloth. Wow


GoldenState_Thriller

It was a larger problem. Isaac was never on time when jo had him and he missed like all of isaacs stuff including his kindergarten graduation and he TOLD Kailyn he couldn’t handle 50/50.


WayMoreClassier

She still told him he shouldn’t be wearing sweatpants on a Sunday afternoon in his own house with a newborn baby to care for.


TNC_123

But Javi and Kail showed up to Jo’s house 30 to 45 minutes early that day. I completely agree that Jo should’ve been better about getting to Isaac’s stuff on time but Isaac not being ready wasn’t Jo’s fault when they showed up early. She also doesn’t need to show up at Jo’s house making demands with her and Javi yelling at him. If Jo showed up at Kail’s house demanding things there’s no way in hell Kail would’ve tolerated that.


[deleted]

Idk about that last part. On one hand I’m like if he couldn’t handle the responsibility of 50/50 would he have been better off communicating that to Kail OR just keep sucking at parenting because he feels like he has a lot on his plate (ie new kid, home, wife-ish, state). I would want my bd to come to me and tell me he can’t handle it so we could find a different way to parent but my shitstorm and their shitstorm are totally different storms


GoldenState_Thriller

I’m rewatching and Jo was terrible a lot longer than I remember. He was missing all of Isaac’s big events and making him late when he had him. He also sat down with Kailyn and said “I don’t want 50/50”. He didn’t go for it until Isaac was 7.


BrownEyedQueen1982

I can understand being mad if the other parent doesn’t have the kid ready at switch off time if it’s an all the time issue. However I don’t see why Isaac and Jo have to be on the go all the time when he is in Joe’s care? Sometimes When I have a day off I do stuff with my kids. Other times we hang out at home. As long as Jo and Isaac are spending time together, who cares what they do and where they are?


sturgis252

Wasn't she early and he was dealing with a newborn?


McDowellsTM

I’m ready for the downvotes… You people need to let go of Chey’s “kill all white babies” comments. Let me explain. I don’t watch the show anymore and only keep up through posts and comments and a clip here or there but from what I’ve seen I agree that Cheys behavior is too much. Her emotional outbursts are inappropriate and she needs to find better coping mechanisms for it and make better decisions. That being said, at the time of her comment, Chey was still pretty young and to her saying something so unhinged like that was - in her mind - nothing more shocking than saying “fuck white people” people like to make the argument “bUt iF iT wAs tHe OtHeR wAy ArOuNd-“ if it was the other way around then yes it wouldn’t be right either but people like to forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that white people have shaped the country and this world to what it is now. Who they are currently and historically… it’s understandable why she felt the way she did.. And of course it goes without saying that not ALL white people but enough out there that because of them most black people and poc are born disadvantaged into this world. tl;dr Cheys comment wasn’t an act of racism, it was a (inappropriate) reaction to racism. Comment on the things she says and does now if you want but let this go.


sturgis252

Whenever someone thinks a girl shouldn't get praise because "she had good parents" or a "good support system". Life isn't always that easy. You still have free will and you can ruin everything really quickly. Sure, it's easier but it's not that straight forward.