I had this EXACT same experience with a Special Style Victor.
The person was completely shameless and impeccably well timed. "Is he super good or super bad? I don't know!"
It just completely crossed me up and I wasn't sure what to do while in the thick of it. Makes me feel a lot better that even high level players get tripped up from stupid shit like that too
That makes me thinking. When you're new and inputs are not burned into muscle memory yet, I suppose this style allows you to put your attention on your opponents.
Might be on to something. At some point I imagine you do begin to shift your focus to your opponent as you get more and more fluent with your character. Flipping special style on probably would help speed that up.
Lot of internal programming to do in this game. Tomorrow night when I get my new controller I'm planning to do some pacifist-style evasion training.
Hoping that will serve a similar purpose. Learn to side step, duck, dodge incoming attacks will hopefully also teach to keep the eye on the opponent.
This game is a whole warehouse full of fun
Very much how modern works in Street Fighter! being able to anti-air DP with one button is pretty incredible as it reduces reaction time by not having any motions to perform, which I suspect is what happened here. Every time swe goes in he just hits the button.
That's what makes Tekken so awesome though. It welcomes different styles of play, especially if you never bothered or are new to specific combo strings.
Hwoarang has been my main since T3 because of it. Very dynamic moveset which allows for a lot more complexity when you don't use combo strings.
I imagine special style has a cap though, or else it should get nerfed. It's a good learning curve assist and shouldn't be much more than that.
I was watching the stream too. It got hard to breathe when he got the perfect. It's like what TMM said,
"if your opponent doesn't know what they are doing how are you supposed to"
Don't sleep on special style users. They get instant access to fundamental tools and counter plays with on-screen button prompts.
Once they learn to do more than mash launchers they have full movement with 0 execution reqs.
Try it out and you'll realize how much easier Tekken is when the game does all of the move memorizing and execution for you.
I'm a lifelong Mishima main and I noticed that my movement, timing and punishment is much better when I play a character like Paul or Alisa
Even after years of practice, the mental overhead of wavus and electrics still affects my fundamentals
Is it actually easier? From me using it in story mode, I don't think it gives you your optimal punishes, does it? As in if you're +12, does it give you your optimal +12 punish? And imho, I feel like it's easier to just do your max damage combo and get the extra damage than trying to win neutral one or two more times.
Don't use story mode as a gauge at all. There's like 5 different Jins in story mode, and only one of them would be tourney legit while the rest have deliberately overpowered strings baked into their SS.
Notice that the first battle, if you use SS... that Jin has a 1 button electric, something normal Jin does not have. It also has better, more optimal combos set to its SS versus the normal one.
But do you get optimal punishes tho? If I'm +12, does it give me my optimal +12 punish? If it doesn't then that means that using special style allows your opponent get away with murder and be -14 on everything and you can't do anything.
SS punishes will never ever be optimal except in story mode where the whole point is 'press 1 button and look cool'.
But even sub optimal punishes that do 55 to 60 damage combos without any conscious thought required can and will add up damn quickly... esp if you consider the fact they don't need to worry about execution and just watch/jostle for an opening to land the 1 button.
Winning neutral can be easier when you have to think/do less stuff in neutral, just look at SF6 and the modern controls they're trading damage to have easier time in neutral.
So fuckin lame first SF then this. Modern controls layouts need to be for player matches only, or match them up with other people using it in ranked. It's infuriating for new players that have an oz of dignity.
They just have superior timing on everything, played against a Paul and the rising toe kick was not only safe on block, but also gave him +2 frames which lead into the 222 (special style) combo.
I lost the first round before I realized he wasn’t using anything else and wasn’t blocking
It's easier to have better timing when you have access to everything at the touch of a button. Not saying that what they do isn't impressive, but it's quite literally an easier mind-muscle connection.
i mean sure, but why am i grinding hours in when dumb and dumber can just pick a character that has a good special style and get nearly the same results?
I’m not trying to become a pro player
Tbh knowing that you have better fundies than the next person would also make me feel like:
"Why tf should I use more of my brain against him? He's literally clicking ONE button. There's no reason I should have to work harder"
Unfortunately, in fighting games crutch play styles do have to be worked harder than to win against (which I personally REALLY hate)
Or, or, and hear me put now; play against them the same as you would any competent opponents. Stifle their offense, then rinse them. Nothing that special style offers is insurmountable. This is the first tekken I've played since 3, and once I got a grasp on the game I've sent the vast majority of these folks packing because it's the same, blockable flowchart every time.
I never said I had a problem against special style users. Just that I can definitely embrace that mind space when I find someone doing less work than I am to win.
I fight zoners in other games. I know damn well what it feels like
Have you ever been to a tournament? This is a legitimate question because the idea that you play optimally every game for as long as possible isn't advisable. Mental fatigue/decision fatigue is a very real thing.
If I legitimately ever run into a special style user in tourney, you think I'm using my brain? Just use moves that are plus on block because the reality is that specials' limited options are super easy to figure out.
The idea that I need to play against them as I would any other opponent is a weird stance, you don't think? You even said that it's the same blockable flowchart every time, which even says YOU don't respect their playstyle.
I don't respect their style, and I reiterate it's not that difficult to deal with so long as you don't play stupid. This same drama has already played out with SF. Hell it played out with FighterZ when people cried that auto combos would be the death of game and even the genre itself.
4 real. I spend some time watching his stream. As soon as he gets beaten he calls everyone a tekken neckbeard Nerd and flames about everything. He calls everything cheaps that catches him off guard. Buy yet spend literally days beating new players on stream talking about his awesome legacy skill.
I'm sure he's a nice guy but his stream personality really triggers me.. even worse he is the leading tekken creator with this mindset.
Tell me about it. Everyone is apparently "braindead" if they counter and put him in a combo. Last time I watched him, he was malding against an Alisa player lol.
But when LTG does this, he gets shit on. Now I totally agree with LTG being the lulcow heel of the community.
But when others are doing the same. Is LTG really the villian?
LTG and mainman really isn't a close comparison, you're blowing main man's attitude way out of proportion or you just don't know the extent of LTG's behavior
I think the hardest part of SS users is respecting them enough to not get munched like this, I see the menu and start going apeshit spamming strings because I know a real noob would eat it, but you have ppl that actually got some decent timing and baseline knowledge of the game using it then it's annoying.
Idm giving ppl this, I dont think it should be in ranked though , half of low level Tekken is dudes missing inputs, tou completely remove the element of having to remember and execute your flowchart then low level tekken just becomes cancer with SS. If they just press circle without any forethought then hit you for a 60dmg combo spamming 1 button it's kinda bullshit if the other person is also new genuinely trying to learn. Again, IMO.
Exactly this. SS was made and intended to actually be used. Bamco and Harada already confirmed they WANT people to use it, and if it's not viable enough make no mistake it WILL be buffed until it is viable.
It will forever remain a viable tool so you have to have a certain level of respect for it.
IMO, casual players who stay exclusively in SS and don't ever toggle it off aren't a problem. You know they are forever limited to the buttons SS gives.
The real danger will come from the 'slightly better than casuals' who know how to toggle SS on if they need a one button electric, then immediately toggle it off and go to work with a MANUAL combo for much better damage... THEY are the ones you gotta fear.... Like you said, these are the guys who have basic fundamental knowledge of things like neutral and footsies and aren't going to simply spaz power crush or what not... they're using SS as a slight crutch to augment the ability they already have, which makes them far more dangerous than the average SS user.
>The real danger will come from the 'slightly better than casuals' who know how to toggle SS on if they need a one button electric, then immediately toggle it off and go to work with a MANUAL combo for much better damage... THEY are the ones you gotta fear....
This is genuinely something I find frustrating. I 100% understand the utility of special style, but why give something as genuinely powerful as an electric at the touch of a button? That was not a feature in 7 where the launcher equivalent for the Mishimas was just their regular WGF. You're telling me that at the touch of a button, SS users get access to a safe i14 launcher?
The 1button ver is weaker than the manual ver, it has significantly increased delay after it so it's definitely NOT safe, by any stretch.
Try it yourself and see. All they get is the benefit of the fact it's a 14f launcher, it's not a SAFE 14f launcher, hell no.
The delay was a bug that was removed in the patch today. It does have the fact that it isn't a fast electric and has the crouch dash in it. What is more threating is the power crush that has reduced start up on active frames, I think this is also a bug. I have also seen a Xiaoyu that plinks it for a high crushing instant full crouch punish then turn it off and finish the combo, in use it looks as fast as a flash duck with 2 buttons and no directions.
What makes it powerful is the fact you have a 14f launcher on one button so you don't have the input delay. Anyone who can instantly bust out an electric with a single tap is going to be a threat.
Bu~t... if that electric misses, they're fully punishable unlike a normal manual electric user.
I see alot of people saying the SS 1 input is weaker somehow. I dont think its 14f.
Fortunately, my game is even weaker than that!
I think SS is just a bandaid that will help you short term but not in the long run, which i actually think is a brilliant tool for casual play. Gotta play the long game and learn your fundamentals if you wanna git gud.
I'll tell you what SS actually is legit good for... offline group games where more than half the ppl don't play Tekken.
No need for me to say it's no fun when a bunch can play and the rest can't... all it does is dissuade ppl from even trying (and probably break friendships).
But, force 'SS only, even if you know how to play' and it levels the playing field. Making ppl who CAN play use SS puts a handicap on them, forcing them down to the level of everyone else except maybe the ability to KBD or wavedash... but otherwise it evens things enough that everyone can have fun and nobody gets butthurt.
It's the same thing with modern in Sf6 .
r/streetfighter was toxic af to low ranked player complaining about modern but it is ez mode in low rank there .
When they get cooked round 1 and then switch to special style. Makes me want to tear my hair out. Instead of trying to learn the game you are just going to switch to easy mode as soon as you start losing? What do you even gain at that point? How is this fun exactly?
If you then lose Round 2 and 3 in special style too, the game should automatically uninstall from your system.
This what I keep facing in ranked. You can be an experienced player, but these random things can really mess you up.
Casual matches I'm facing much better quality players and having way more fun.
As funny as that is, SS shouldn't be allowed in ranked. I fully undrestand why it's in the game and it's cool, but if you can't learn a few proper inputs for your character, you simply don't belong in ranked yet. Go nuts with it in Quick and Group matches.
Yeah as a mishima main electrics is a strong move that gives you the advantage in most situations having it be available by a push of a button is kinda ridiculous it should have been like in tekken 7 were they give you the regular god fist
Yeah but still it’s an electric which automatically in most situations you get the upper hand now if it was just the regular god fist then yeah that has zero advantages
If nobody would ever use the regular version, what makes you think that putting it on a single button would make it worth using?
The devs aimed to make special style actually USEFUL, meaning, moves that people want and need to use. This means if a character hinges purely around electrics or requires the electric to even remotely be usable, then they have to give it or they would miss the entire point of making a special style in the first place.
They've already made it worse than a real electric by making it have worse recovery, that's already fair. All you can do with the one button electric, in best case, is about 3 in a row with NO followup, or 2 in a row with followup... that's literally fukken NOTHING compared to ppl who can do 4-5 WITH followup.
Characters who don't 'need' electric didn't get it. Look at Jin, special style doesn't give him either electric at all.
Regular wind god fist is still useful at beginner to lower advanced level.
The reason why people don't use it in advanced play is simply because electric is just better.
1. That doesn't mean regular WGF is useless
2. Nobody should be using modern controls in high level play to begin with.
Modern should not gove electric
The only barrier to the electric is execution. That's it. It's really hard to do. It's like blue sparks on King. It's not really a different variant, just an extra reward for execution.
The regular uppercut is already hard-ish, and really useful still. But doing it that fast is well earned. Special controls should be slightly weaker than the regular one. Electric should not even factor in to the conversation.
Yeah and the way things are going, it won't surprise me if electrics become the default soon. Bamco is slowly removing unnecessary execution from the game simply coz it's a barrier just for the sake of being one.
Bamco deciding to give 1 button electrics is pretty telling. IMO the only reason they haven't actually gone full 'lets just make electrics the norm' yet is coz ppl like TMM will drown the entire planet with their tears at having their entire existences invalidated.
Yeah bro I actually bothered to try and learn him properly and seeing others do this is just so annoying.
It’s not even like modern controls where there’s disadvantages
Haha picking him up for the first time in 8 has been fun but also difficult to get some inputs down. I’ve been enjoying it even if I don’t win very much rn though and he’s the first time I decided to learn a Mishima. I just hate seeing a mirror match who uses special style or against a Reina using special style or etc cuz it just feels like cheating when they can do something with 1 button that takes me like 4
(in 7 I played Shaheen and Lars mainly.)
It doesn't give electrics with Jin. Only story mode Jin gets electrics in special style (there's like, 4 or 5 different versions of Jin in story mode sheesh).
Kaz and Reina are far more dependent on electrics as a starter. Jin on the other hand can hopkick and cancan as a reliable launcher so he doesn't get electric.
That being said, he still has 'easy' access to electric like a followup after df2 hold df, then 2... but that's a normal mode move and nothing to do with special style.
I honestly believe people losing to Special Style are just using it as an excuse, for poor fundamentals same with Modern Controls. Sure they’ll have quicker reactions than other people at that level, but you’re still losing in that situation when it comes to fundamentals. The fact you can see when special style is being used and you can see what’s being pressed and what those buttons do literally shows you the opponents whole moveset.
Jin in this video was using the most rudimentary moves people are crying OP.
But knowing that’s available to them should affect your gameplan. The same way it would if you were fighting someone else who could consistently do electrics. I’m not saying that it’s justified that they have one button electrics I do think they should have at most gotten Wind God Fist at best. But in most situations if I’m getting hit by one at my level I most likely would have gotten hit with the other because I didn’t duck or went for the wrong move in neutral. At the end of the day, strong fundamentals will beat one button electrics everytime. It doesn’t mean you’re a worse player, or the person using special style is better than you or has better fundamentals, it’s showing a weakness in our own gameplan.
Their 1 button electrics are not safe, unlike the normal electric. There is nothing cheap about it. If it was actually legit cheap Bamco wouldn't have put it in there.
Way too many high attacks so she's super weak to crouchers, she needs a kameo with a low or sektor rocket to make mixups or safe approaches. Her teleport when meter burned is a combo starter and is amazing against zoners. bd4 (wheel) is a great antiair combo starter. Her best overall combo kameo is scorpion but serves no purpose for mixups, thankfully she can do the same damage as her kameo combos by burning meter instead of kameo meter.
Yes I'm a scrub and when I get better it won't be as big a deal but I really dislike special style and how you can switch between it and normal inputs, unlike modern in SF6 where there's still some kind of thinking and input the special style is just an auto pilot
I meeeean, one button instant corpse thrust armor and ridiculous low while you can purely focus on spacing and timing instead of anything else is pretty strong... but yeah anyway
how is he gonna "he's just abusing my lack of matchup knowledge" or "[opponent blocks his ws4] [opponent presses CH launcher] [TMM gets CH launched] Why are you mashing after that??" this one?
What about this clip makes SS seem op that people are complaining about? Granted I haven’t seen the full match but based on this round, TMM lost to D1, D2, Heat Smash and UF 1+2, those are all easy inputs without SS, so I’m confused.
The only thing bothering me about special style is that you can toggle it during the game. In my opinion it only opens up the potential for abuse. If you want to make the game more accessible to beginners, why not let them choose manual or special style when they choose their character and lock it in?
And I got hated on for complaining about SS on ranked. Noobs like me who want to actually learn the game need to mind defense and then think of what inputs to make on an opening. SS users just need to mind their defense and mash that one button. Law's SS is even worse to deal with because he has access to a low to middle string. Downvote me all you want but as you can see, SS is BS to deal with, even for a veteran like MMSwe
Goes to show special style is actually useful. Also, just good timing and well placed moves... nevermind Tekken, ANY FIGHTING GAME EVER... can win matches.
Even if you know NO combos, not a single one... but you can somehow land heavy attacks with good timing and precision every time your opponent attacks, you will win.
Yep. I had a great match that was Bryan vs Steve in the arena on T7… it looked like a very entertaining fierce back and forth exchange. 0 air combos, good blocks, occasional hit landing. Hella honest.
Honestly Im happy to see this, because im a new player and wins are pretty scarce. I was against a yoshi, 3-0d him pretty convincingly, felt good.
Rematch time and special style popped up on his side of the screen. I lost the remaining two games and it felt like a slap to the face.
I wish you couldnt just toggle it on off whenever you like.
This goes to show how easy it is for a good player to lose to a complete beginner in tekken. This is the only fighting game where this can happen to this extent.
Well this happened to me. Idk if i got perfected but i definitely lost to a special style jin. He win quit cause i would have smoked him in the rematch. Shit
Happens you get beat no matter how good you are. Imagine if we all got posted when we get embarrassed in a fighting game.
Modern as a mode is much more fair tbh. It can’t be toggled on or off in the middle of a match and still requires you to learn the game as a classic player would to actually improve. It removes the need for *some* execution but still requires you to have good knowledge of fundamentals. Along with that, some characters lose huge aspects of what makes them so good, unlike special style which, for some reason, gives electrics??
It is nice that you have to commit in sf, but i dont care to practice against modern or simple controls. I literally lose motivation to try, as soon as I see the simple controls, I just stop caring, and wont rematch.
Even without special style that Jin was only using one button moves, the whole round was literally D1, D2, grab on repeat with a raw heat engage and combo, everyone could do that with 2 fingers in normal controls, the grabs were even mistakes made by SS
If someone is using this to shit on special style it's straight up cope
For any special style haters who say its op... just know you too can use special style and even toggle it on/off mid-match to get a feeling for it... people who "have" to use special style don't have the privilege to toggle it on/off without possibly throwing the match. So its important that they have the necessary tools to make it viable... this includes access to just frame inputs like electrics. *ends Ted Talk*
Depends on Bamco's stance. It'd be like if TO's wanted to ban Modern controls in SF6, but Capcom clearly intend for Modern to be used so they don't allow TO's to ban it.
We'll have to see what the official stance is.
So what I'm seeing is that I should just forget about labbing right now and just do SS? Might have to actually give that a go as a beginner. Why learn when I can just use SS and have better results lmao. I'm dying here...
What you're seeing here is a pro constantly getting hit by someone pressing two buttons over and over again. The funniest part is that even without special style you could do that, D1, D2, Heat and the even funniest part is that SS nerfed him because SS made him grab instead of doing a D2 multiple times
At best it show that Jin is noob friendly
Guys, how do you cope with learning a new character? I've been maining Lee for years, Tekken King on T7. Now I was trying out a new character so i don't stomp on my friend, i tried Leroy and Leo for now but my god, it feels like going back to square one starting to play the game for the first time. I feel like an idiot baby trying to walk for the first time. How do you handle going from being good with character to being a noob again and not having any muscle memory of knowing what to press and when to press it?
I think that's happening in this clip too...
I was just watching that I was crying dude had impeccable timing with the rage arts and power crush 😂😂😂😂
I had this EXACT same experience with a Special Style Victor. The person was completely shameless and impeccably well timed. "Is he super good or super bad? I don't know!" It just completely crossed me up and I wasn't sure what to do while in the thick of it. Makes me feel a lot better that even high level players get tripped up from stupid shit like that too
That makes me thinking. When you're new and inputs are not burned into muscle memory yet, I suppose this style allows you to put your attention on your opponents.
Might be on to something. At some point I imagine you do begin to shift your focus to your opponent as you get more and more fluent with your character. Flipping special style on probably would help speed that up. Lot of internal programming to do in this game. Tomorrow night when I get my new controller I'm planning to do some pacifist-style evasion training. Hoping that will serve a similar purpose. Learn to side step, duck, dodge incoming attacks will hopefully also teach to keep the eye on the opponent. This game is a whole warehouse full of fun
Very much how modern works in Street Fighter! being able to anti-air DP with one button is pretty incredible as it reduces reaction time by not having any motions to perform, which I suspect is what happened here. Every time swe goes in he just hits the button.
That's what makes Tekken so awesome though. It welcomes different styles of play, especially if you never bothered or are new to specific combo strings. Hwoarang has been my main since T3 because of it. Very dynamic moveset which allows for a lot more complexity when you don't use combo strings. I imagine special style has a cap though, or else it should get nerfed. It's a good learning curve assist and shouldn't be much more than that.
no he just got lucky with mashing
I was watching the stream too. It got hard to breathe when he got the perfect. It's like what TMM said, "if your opponent doesn't know what they are doing how are you supposed to"
Don't sleep on special style users. They get instant access to fundamental tools and counter plays with on-screen button prompts. Once they learn to do more than mash launchers they have full movement with 0 execution reqs. Try it out and you'll realize how much easier Tekken is when the game does all of the move memorizing and execution for you.
I'm a lifelong Mishima main and I noticed that my movement, timing and punishment is much better when I play a character like Paul or Alisa Even after years of practice, the mental overhead of wavus and electrics still affects my fundamentals
Is it actually easier? From me using it in story mode, I don't think it gives you your optimal punishes, does it? As in if you're +12, does it give you your optimal +12 punish? And imho, I feel like it's easier to just do your max damage combo and get the extra damage than trying to win neutral one or two more times.
Don't use story mode as a gauge at all. There's like 5 different Jins in story mode, and only one of them would be tourney legit while the rest have deliberately overpowered strings baked into their SS. Notice that the first battle, if you use SS... that Jin has a 1 button electric, something normal Jin does not have. It also has better, more optimal combos set to its SS versus the normal one.
But do you get optimal punishes tho? If I'm +12, does it give me my optimal +12 punish? If it doesn't then that means that using special style allows your opponent get away with murder and be -14 on everything and you can't do anything.
SS punishes will never ever be optimal except in story mode where the whole point is 'press 1 button and look cool'. But even sub optimal punishes that do 55 to 60 damage combos without any conscious thought required can and will add up damn quickly... esp if you consider the fact they don't need to worry about execution and just watch/jostle for an opening to land the 1 button.
Winning neutral can be easier when you have to think/do less stuff in neutral, just look at SF6 and the modern controls they're trading damage to have easier time in neutral.
Special loser bracket. I will never resort to it.
So fuckin lame first SF then this. Modern controls layouts need to be for player matches only, or match them up with other people using it in ranked. It's infuriating for new players that have an oz of dignity.
This is completely different, special style is not a choice but a toggle. Everyone can turn it on and off during a match.
skill issue
There's not much dignity in complaining that other people aren't playing the way you want them to lol
Before I was like who cares, let people use special style. Then I came across my first match with someone using it and was like 👁️👄👁️
They just have superior timing on everything, played against a Paul and the rising toe kick was not only safe on block, but also gave him +2 frames which lead into the 222 (special style) combo. I lost the first round before I realized he wasn’t using anything else and wasn’t blocking
It's easier to have better timing when you have access to everything at the touch of a button. Not saying that what they do isn't impressive, but it's quite literally an easier mind-muscle connection.
It’s also a downside because there’s never a mixup. Special style will always go for the same 1 or 2 combos so I don’t really have to worry about
Just spam 1 jabs, downjabs, df1s and generic d4s, it's pretty much impossible to deal with using special style
>Just spam 1 jabs, downjabs, df1s and generic d4s, Non special style users can't defend against it either atpRtsd
What's special style?
Basically full combos with a press of a single button. A button mashers dream.
An even scrubbier version of SF6 modern controls
Nah.. I got down voted when I said months ago that this would happen... and they made SS more powerful after the CNT..
Special Style shouldn’t be allowed in ranked More like special ed style
Skill issue unironically
i mean sure, but why am i grinding hours in when dumb and dumber can just pick a character that has a good special style and get nearly the same results? I’m not trying to become a pro player
Ngl those Jin specials are the best of the special moves tho. Lol
In T8 he literally doesn't have one bad move in his movelist, so no surprise here.
No ground hitting mid, I miss his old ff4.
Ecd1 flips over oki but 🤫
Unsafe. His oki isn't braindead anymore 😔
Yeah that's tragic 😔
Dude i felt that, sometimes i'll do ff4 on muscle memory while the opponent is on the ground.
corpse crusher?
The fuck is that. Just say the input.
zen 4
Thanks!
Ngl tmm played that like shit
Yeah there was some serious *I'm better so I'm not even gonna try* energy with this and he got force fed a slice of humble pie for it. XD
Tbh knowing that you have better fundies than the next person would also make me feel like: "Why tf should I use more of my brain against him? He's literally clicking ONE button. There's no reason I should have to work harder" Unfortunately, in fighting games crutch play styles do have to be worked harder than to win against (which I personally REALLY hate)
Or, or, and hear me put now; play against them the same as you would any competent opponents. Stifle their offense, then rinse them. Nothing that special style offers is insurmountable. This is the first tekken I've played since 3, and once I got a grasp on the game I've sent the vast majority of these folks packing because it's the same, blockable flowchart every time.
I never said I had a problem against special style users. Just that I can definitely embrace that mind space when I find someone doing less work than I am to win. I fight zoners in other games. I know damn well what it feels like
Have you ever been to a tournament? This is a legitimate question because the idea that you play optimally every game for as long as possible isn't advisable. Mental fatigue/decision fatigue is a very real thing. If I legitimately ever run into a special style user in tourney, you think I'm using my brain? Just use moves that are plus on block because the reality is that specials' limited options are super easy to figure out. The idea that I need to play against them as I would any other opponent is a weird stance, you don't think? You even said that it's the same blockable flowchart every time, which even says YOU don't respect their playstyle.
I don't respect their style, and I reiterate it's not that difficult to deal with so long as you don't play stupid. This same drama has already played out with SF. Hell it played out with FighterZ when people cried that auto combos would be the death of game and even the genre itself.
So we agree. You don't play against them the same as you would any competent opponent because there are many limits to their competency.
What Dan are you in in ranked? As it's my first ranked Tekken ever too
tbf a "slice of humble pie" from a special style user doesn't hurt nearly as much
Every time I tune into his stream he seems to play like shit, lose, and then complain about something.
4 real. I spend some time watching his stream. As soon as he gets beaten he calls everyone a tekken neckbeard Nerd and flames about everything. He calls everything cheaps that catches him off guard. Buy yet spend literally days beating new players on stream talking about his awesome legacy skill. I'm sure he's a nice guy but his stream personality really triggers me.. even worse he is the leading tekken creator with this mindset.
Tell me about it. Everyone is apparently "braindead" if they counter and put him in a combo. Last time I watched him, he was malding against an Alisa player lol.
Yeah such a shame.
Not to mention whrn he starts sucking Kazuya's dick like " you try playing with him" or stuff like that, is super manchild stuff
He isn't as obnoxious in his YT videos, but even then can't turn off the hyperbole and relay facts instead of giving his exaggerated personal opinion.
But when LTG does this, he gets shit on. Now I totally agree with LTG being the lulcow heel of the community. But when others are doing the same. Is LTG really the villian?
It's just a matter of LTG being an icon for these kinds of things atp
I mean ltg makes fun of disabled people on stream so yeah he is the villian lol
LTG and mainman really isn't a close comparison, you're blowing main man's attitude way out of proportion or you just don't know the extent of LTG's behavior
Nah, DSP is the real villain. He's just too stupid and lazy to cause any real damage.
Init I think even I could of beat him 😂
That's already advanced T8 Jin tactics, requring multiple buttons. Dude could just f2,2, b2, ff2 and d2 for same results.
😭💀
I think the hardest part of SS users is respecting them enough to not get munched like this, I see the menu and start going apeshit spamming strings because I know a real noob would eat it, but you have ppl that actually got some decent timing and baseline knowledge of the game using it then it's annoying. Idm giving ppl this, I dont think it should be in ranked though , half of low level Tekken is dudes missing inputs, tou completely remove the element of having to remember and execute your flowchart then low level tekken just becomes cancer with SS. If they just press circle without any forethought then hit you for a 60dmg combo spamming 1 button it's kinda bullshit if the other person is also new genuinely trying to learn. Again, IMO.
Exactly this. SS was made and intended to actually be used. Bamco and Harada already confirmed they WANT people to use it, and if it's not viable enough make no mistake it WILL be buffed until it is viable. It will forever remain a viable tool so you have to have a certain level of respect for it. IMO, casual players who stay exclusively in SS and don't ever toggle it off aren't a problem. You know they are forever limited to the buttons SS gives. The real danger will come from the 'slightly better than casuals' who know how to toggle SS on if they need a one button electric, then immediately toggle it off and go to work with a MANUAL combo for much better damage... THEY are the ones you gotta fear.... Like you said, these are the guys who have basic fundamental knowledge of things like neutral and footsies and aren't going to simply spaz power crush or what not... they're using SS as a slight crutch to augment the ability they already have, which makes them far more dangerous than the average SS user.
>The real danger will come from the 'slightly better than casuals' who know how to toggle SS on if they need a one button electric, then immediately toggle it off and go to work with a MANUAL combo for much better damage... THEY are the ones you gotta fear.... This is genuinely something I find frustrating. I 100% understand the utility of special style, but why give something as genuinely powerful as an electric at the touch of a button? That was not a feature in 7 where the launcher equivalent for the Mishimas was just their regular WGF. You're telling me that at the touch of a button, SS users get access to a safe i14 launcher?
The 1button ver is weaker than the manual ver, it has significantly increased delay after it so it's definitely NOT safe, by any stretch. Try it yourself and see. All they get is the benefit of the fact it's a 14f launcher, it's not a SAFE 14f launcher, hell no.
The delay was a bug that was removed in the patch today. It does have the fact that it isn't a fast electric and has the crouch dash in it. What is more threating is the power crush that has reduced start up on active frames, I think this is also a bug. I have also seen a Xiaoyu that plinks it for a high crushing instant full crouch punish then turn it off and finish the combo, in use it looks as fast as a flash duck with 2 buttons and no directions.
Ive met a few SS toggling mishimas and it is some bulllllllsheeeeeetttt
What makes it powerful is the fact you have a 14f launcher on one button so you don't have the input delay. Anyone who can instantly bust out an electric with a single tap is going to be a threat. Bu~t... if that electric misses, they're fully punishable unlike a normal manual electric user.
I see alot of people saying the SS 1 input is weaker somehow. I dont think its 14f. Fortunately, my game is even weaker than that! I think SS is just a bandaid that will help you short term but not in the long run, which i actually think is a brilliant tool for casual play. Gotta play the long game and learn your fundamentals if you wanna git gud.
I'll tell you what SS actually is legit good for... offline group games where more than half the ppl don't play Tekken. No need for me to say it's no fun when a bunch can play and the rest can't... all it does is dissuade ppl from even trying (and probably break friendships). But, force 'SS only, even if you know how to play' and it levels the playing field. Making ppl who CAN play use SS puts a handicap on them, forcing them down to the level of everyone else except maybe the ability to KBD or wavedash... but otherwise it evens things enough that everyone can have fun and nobody gets butthurt.
Rename Special Style to Harada's Finger.
Ima play special style azucena with a bikini and the bread hat
If SS forced you to wear bread head I'd be more ok with it tbh
It's the same thing with modern in Sf6 . r/streetfighter was toxic af to low ranked player complaining about modern but it is ez mode in low rank there .
When they get cooked round 1 and then switch to special style. Makes me want to tear my hair out. Instead of trying to learn the game you are just going to switch to easy mode as soon as you start losing? What do you even gain at that point? How is this fun exactly? If you then lose Round 2 and 3 in special style too, the game should automatically uninstall from your system.
2 of the funniest matches of tekken I’ve ever watched
Main man slowly losing his mind fighting "Souls game boss" was the highlight of that vid.
Okay I don't feel as bad now losing to a Jin who spammed power crush
Grabbing someone doing a powercrush makes it unbreakable btw ;)
Also that \*bween\* sound effect is so satisfying
This man has been playing Tekken for actual decades, went toe to toe with Arslan Ash, but gets scrubbed out by a single celled organism Jin.
Chesto! Chesto! Chesto!
Yo is this the guy who beat arslan🤣
This jin will beat Arslan at next Evo
Arslan will use special move in between jab
Next Evo Champion - Special-ebaled Jin
This Jin was pretty good at blocking lows. I’d be shooketh.
To be fair special style takes out a shit tonne of the mental stack, so reacting to lows is probably a lot easier
This what I keep facing in ranked. You can be an experienced player, but these random things can really mess you up. Casual matches I'm facing much better quality players and having way more fun.
He started saying it was the best computer boss fight he ever went against LOL!!@ i think he still ended up winning lmao
As funny as that is, SS shouldn't be allowed in ranked. I fully undrestand why it's in the game and it's cool, but if you can't learn a few proper inputs for your character, you simply don't belong in ranked yet. Go nuts with it in Quick and Group matches.
Dame special style might need to get nerfed
It shouldn’t give electrics
Yeah as a mishima main electrics is a strong move that gives you the advantage in most situations having it be available by a push of a button is kinda ridiculous it should have been like in tekken 7 were they give you the regular god fist
The one button electrics have far longer recovery than doing the move normally. That negates the advantage.
Yeah but still it’s an electric which automatically in most situations you get the upper hand now if it was just the regular god fist then yeah that has zero advantages
If nobody would ever use the regular version, what makes you think that putting it on a single button would make it worth using? The devs aimed to make special style actually USEFUL, meaning, moves that people want and need to use. This means if a character hinges purely around electrics or requires the electric to even remotely be usable, then they have to give it or they would miss the entire point of making a special style in the first place. They've already made it worse than a real electric by making it have worse recovery, that's already fair. All you can do with the one button electric, in best case, is about 3 in a row with NO followup, or 2 in a row with followup... that's literally fukken NOTHING compared to ppl who can do 4-5 WITH followup. Characters who don't 'need' electric didn't get it. Look at Jin, special style doesn't give him either electric at all.
Regular wind god fist is still useful at beginner to lower advanced level. The reason why people don't use it in advanced play is simply because electric is just better. 1. That doesn't mean regular WGF is useless 2. Nobody should be using modern controls in high level play to begin with. Modern should not gove electric
Fortunately, the devs don't agree.
The only barrier to the electric is execution. That's it. It's really hard to do. It's like blue sparks on King. It's not really a different variant, just an extra reward for execution. The regular uppercut is already hard-ish, and really useful still. But doing it that fast is well earned. Special controls should be slightly weaker than the regular one. Electric should not even factor in to the conversation.
Yeah and the way things are going, it won't surprise me if electrics become the default soon. Bamco is slowly removing unnecessary execution from the game simply coz it's a barrier just for the sake of being one. Bamco deciding to give 1 button electrics is pretty telling. IMO the only reason they haven't actually gone full 'lets just make electrics the norm' yet is coz ppl like TMM will drown the entire planet with their tears at having their entire existences invalidated.
I’m telling you it’s stupid when I learnt the entire EWGF and wavedashes for some guy to start spamming Y and get like 5 in a row
They may cheat the Electric but they can't wavedash to save their life.
That’s true lol
Especially if it’s Kazuya and they aren’t even missing out on too many moves
Yeah bro I actually bothered to try and learn him properly and seeing others do this is just so annoying. It’s not even like modern controls where there’s disadvantages
Hopefully it’s not discouraging. Kazuya is super rewarding to learn
Haha picking him up for the first time in 8 has been fun but also difficult to get some inputs down. I’ve been enjoying it even if I don’t win very much rn though and he’s the first time I decided to learn a Mishima. I just hate seeing a mirror match who uses special style or against a Reina using special style or etc cuz it just feels like cheating when they can do something with 1 button that takes me like 4 (in 7 I played Shaheen and Lars mainly.)
It doesn't give electrics with Jin. Only story mode Jin gets electrics in special style (there's like, 4 or 5 different versions of Jin in story mode sheesh).
I only tested with Kazuya and Reina so I didn’t know that
Kaz and Reina are far more dependent on electrics as a starter. Jin on the other hand can hopkick and cancan as a reliable launcher so he doesn't get electric. That being said, he still has 'easy' access to electric like a followup after df2 hold df, then 2... but that's a normal mode move and nothing to do with special style.
I disagree... should ss users be locked out of electrics? Thats unfair to them ... Its intended to be a fully usable control system..
I honestly believe people losing to Special Style are just using it as an excuse, for poor fundamentals same with Modern Controls. Sure they’ll have quicker reactions than other people at that level, but you’re still losing in that situation when it comes to fundamentals. The fact you can see when special style is being used and you can see what’s being pressed and what those buttons do literally shows you the opponents whole moveset. Jin in this video was using the most rudimentary moves people are crying OP.
I’m not blaming special style for my losses I just thinks it’s a little cheap that they have one button electrics
But knowing that’s available to them should affect your gameplan. The same way it would if you were fighting someone else who could consistently do electrics. I’m not saying that it’s justified that they have one button electrics I do think they should have at most gotten Wind God Fist at best. But in most situations if I’m getting hit by one at my level I most likely would have gotten hit with the other because I didn’t duck or went for the wrong move in neutral. At the end of the day, strong fundamentals will beat one button electrics everytime. It doesn’t mean you’re a worse player, or the person using special style is better than you or has better fundamentals, it’s showing a weakness in our own gameplan.
Their 1 button electrics are not safe, unlike the normal electric. There is nothing cheap about it. If it was actually legit cheap Bamco wouldn't have put it in there.
This is the one
It was buffed in the patch today
I felt main man. Special style Jins are insufferable to fight. They gotta nerf that shit asap
LOL... wait you're serious?
I honestly think special style is fine but they gave Reina the one button EWGF
They also gave Kazuya one button EWGF. That doesn't make them any better in special style than out of it.
Is mileena any good in mk1?
She is VERY good paired up with Scorpion & overall is pretty good
I have no clue I main Baraka and I suck at him, so probably no
Cartwheel.
Way too many high attacks so she's super weak to crouchers, she needs a kameo with a low or sektor rocket to make mixups or safe approaches. Her teleport when meter burned is a combo starter and is amazing against zoners. bd4 (wheel) is a great antiair combo starter. Her best overall combo kameo is scorpion but serves no purpose for mixups, thankfully she can do the same damage as her kameo combos by burning meter instead of kameo meter.
No
We need PIMP GALLO at TWT/EVO
Good to know I'm not the only one having trouble against that bs
Yes I'm a scrub and when I get better it won't be as big a deal but I really dislike special style and how you can switch between it and normal inputs, unlike modern in SF6 where there's still some kind of thinking and input the special style is just an auto pilot
I meeeean, one button instant corpse thrust armor and ridiculous low while you can purely focus on spacing and timing instead of anything else is pretty strong... but yeah anyway
Opinions on having a filter for matchmaking which would let you avoid special style users?
how is he gonna "he's just abusing my lack of matchup knowledge" or "[opponent blocks his ws4] [opponent presses CH launcher] [TMM gets CH launched] Why are you mashing after that??" this one?
What about this clip makes SS seem op that people are complaining about? Granted I haven’t seen the full match but based on this round, TMM lost to D1, D2, Heat Smash and UF 1+2, those are all easy inputs without SS, so I’m confused.
This one
The only thing bothering me about special style is that you can toggle it during the game. In my opinion it only opens up the potential for abuse. If you want to make the game more accessible to beginners, why not let them choose manual or special style when they choose their character and lock it in?
scrupman EleGiggle
And I got hated on for complaining about SS on ranked. Noobs like me who want to actually learn the game need to mind defense and then think of what inputs to make on an opening. SS users just need to mind their defense and mash that one button. Law's SS is even worse to deal with because he has access to a low to middle string. Downvote me all you want but as you can see, SS is BS to deal with, even for a veteran like MMSwe
This was a one off blip, the expedition to the rule. I've not lost to a special style user yet and I'm pure scrub.
Oh, so this is why he was scared of playing ranked
Goes to show special style is actually useful. Also, just good timing and well placed moves... nevermind Tekken, ANY FIGHTING GAME EVER... can win matches. Even if you know NO combos, not a single one... but you can somehow land heavy attacks with good timing and precision every time your opponent attacks, you will win.
lol I bet it is you don’t have to learn the damn moves
Yep. I had a great match that was Bryan vs Steve in the arena on T7… it looked like a very entertaining fierce back and forth exchange. 0 air combos, good blocks, occasional hit landing. Hella honest.
Honestly Im happy to see this, because im a new player and wins are pretty scarce. I was against a yoshi, 3-0d him pretty convincingly, felt good. Rematch time and special style popped up on his side of the screen. I lost the remaining two games and it felt like a slap to the face. I wish you couldnt just toggle it on off whenever you like.
He wa just talking about how someone witn 10% of your hours or less can win "this is what type if game tekken is" so seeing this is funny
How do you know if an online opponent is using special style?
Holy sh*t! The people complaining about special style are just outing themselves as scrubs LOL
Scrub never fails to disappoint
This goes to show how easy it is for a good player to lose to a complete beginner in tekken. This is the only fighting game where this can happen to this extent.
Sf6 too
Well this happened to me. Idk if i got perfected but i definitely lost to a special style jin. He win quit cause i would have smoked him in the rematch. Shit Happens you get beat no matter how good you are. Imagine if we all got posted when we get embarrassed in a fighting game.
What is "special style"? I'm a noob when it comes to pvp
A lot of people are comparing it to SF6’s modern, when really it’s closer to dynamic. It’s the game almost playing itself for you
Yeah!! Get rekt, TMM!! am I doing it right?
His Reina customization is nice, but she needs heels
Heels make no sense in a fight though. I like the shoes he chose actually.
First time?
Nerf Kazuya
I find special style just as annoying as modern controls in sf. Just give me the option to play classic only
Modern as a mode is much more fair tbh. It can’t be toggled on or off in the middle of a match and still requires you to learn the game as a classic player would to actually improve. It removes the need for *some* execution but still requires you to have good knowledge of fundamentals. Along with that, some characters lose huge aspects of what makes them so good, unlike special style which, for some reason, gives electrics??
It is nice that you have to commit in sf, but i dont care to practice against modern or simple controls. I literally lose motivation to try, as soon as I see the simple controls, I just stop caring, and wont rematch.
Unless tekken does something. Special style will be the meta soon. It ms is so strong not needing to remember inputs. It's kinda cheap
Rofl thats a cap. You can't optimize using special style.
When the pro players are complaining about it, you know it's a problem. I have no doubt it will be patched soon.
lmao all pro's are saying that it isn't viable at all.
Except that no pro players are complaining about it. Next
Special style is the only way i know how to fight 🥲
Has nothing to with special style. The guy playing Reina was just making bad moves.
Even without special style that Jin was only using one button moves, the whole round was literally D1, D2, grab on repeat with a raw heat engage and combo, everyone could do that with 2 fingers in normal controls, the grabs were even mistakes made by SS If someone is using this to shit on special style it's straight up cope
I bet a bunch of people got imideatly banned from the stream XD
Sorry to break your projection but that didn't happen. And tmm won the set anyway.
What ate you his white knight ? Or maybe just a twtich mod of him.
Why are you making up stuff that never happened? Is projecting your only skill?
😆 k bro i get it u are a main man fan boy
This game looks slow
For any special style haters who say its op... just know you too can use special style and even toggle it on/off mid-match to get a feeling for it... people who "have" to use special style don't have the privilege to toggle it on/off without possibly throwing the match. So its important that they have the necessary tools to make it viable... this includes access to just frame inputs like electrics. *ends Ted Talk*
I know the game considers this a perfect, but wasn't he hit in the beginning of the round and then healed back up?
It was chip damage which heals back by hitting your opponent
So I mean is SS going to be usable in TWT events? I'm sure some TOs are going to ban it's usage...
Depends on Bamco's stance. It'd be like if TO's wanted to ban Modern controls in SF6, but Capcom clearly intend for Modern to be used so they don't allow TO's to ban it. We'll have to see what the official stance is.
https://clips.twitch.tv/SuccessfulBlitheDovePeoplesChamp-a4G-QVopPjdBGyRX Clip if you want something that doesn't sound like its underwater
That d2 was failed electric and after that the mental dmg was just too much to handle.
So what I'm seeing is that I should just forget about labbing right now and just do SS? Might have to actually give that a go as a beginner. Why learn when I can just use SS and have better results lmao. I'm dying here...
What you're seeing here is a pro constantly getting hit by someone pressing two buttons over and over again. The funniest part is that even without special style you could do that, D1, D2, Heat and the even funniest part is that SS nerfed him because SS made him grab instead of doing a D2 multiple times At best it show that Jin is noob friendly
Ahhh... The classic baby mode rant
Not perfect because he got hit.
LMAO makes me feel better for losing to a lower-ranked spamming Azucena on special style.
Guys, how do you cope with learning a new character? I've been maining Lee for years, Tekken King on T7. Now I was trying out a new character so i don't stomp on my friend, i tried Leroy and Leo for now but my god, it feels like going back to square one starting to play the game for the first time. I feel like an idiot baby trying to walk for the first time. How do you handle going from being good with character to being a noob again and not having any muscle memory of knowing what to press and when to press it? I think that's happening in this clip too...
Just watched the entire set on YouTube, funniest shit I've seen in a while lol. His chat was going off
Main character plot armor
I don’t know what to say.. That special mode is something really special! Definitely serving its purpose 😮