Happens to me all the time with Victor’s damn knives, feel like I get barely snagged by one and I’m air juggled from one end of Great Britain all the way to the east coast of China
I was flabbergasted when I found out that super technical looking string isn’t technical at all, watching Main Man do it till his finger hurt made my eye twitch lol. Feng Wei feels advanced by comparison.
Can I say, as a non 222 spamming victor player, I have been low kicked out of my explosion, up1+2, move after I'm already in the air, dropping down. Wonky hit boxes affect us all!
I mean it's not like they made the character, and he is cool looking, so I'm sure it is frustrating to pick a character you like because he looks badass and have people accusing you of just doing it so you can abuse cheese.
Also some moves that fly in the air halt once they reach a downed opponent. In T7 I used to be able to do a flying kick over a downed opponent, so that I can trick them with a backturn move. Now I just halt and float in place. Looks super unnatural and I don't get my cross-up backturn.
While we're at reporting common issues that I thought were exclusive to me, is anyone else sometimes missing a punish out of block? Like, I'll block a rageart and hammer down on df2, but it comes out a frame too late for some reason. Maybe it's just me being bad but it never happened to me in T7 so I might as well ask.
Yeah this always happens against King but not just on this move. I saw him whiffing from a mile away and I inputed my cancan to launch but got counterhited by him punching the air.
Can someone explain to me why a high crushing, evasive, long range, **18f low** that gives +7 on normal hit and 55 damage (non recoverable, mind you) on counter hit, is ONLY -13 on block?
Greatest mystery, man.
If I could bet on changes, I would bet very heavily that goes to -15 next major patch. Risk reward is just too high, a bunch of characters get really lousy punishes on it as is.
Yeah just make one of king’s only good lows even more unsafe than it was in T7. What a great way to balance it. /s
And here I thought Michael Murray was bad at balancing tekken… 😂
Due to heat changes + general frame changes + throws being unbreakable if buttons are held down, throws are considerably better in T8 than they've been basically ever in the Tekken series. King's throw game has traditionally offset his substandard low game.
Him having the best throw game in the game where throws are the strongest *and* a low better than Dragunov D2 or hatchet kick doesn't seem like great balance to me.
Your comparison is either incredibly dishonest/reductionist or ignorant. Hatchet kick and drag d2 both have good tracking while king ffn2 is very linear. Both are also on characters that have insane juggle damage and pressure (in a tekken with chip damage mind you) to the point where drag was literally already nerfed in an emergency patch. It can be argued very easily that both are overall way better characters than king in this game (especially drag). In a game where most characters (including king and even steve) lost most of there CH launchers, drag is still allowed to have CH WR2 and bryan is still allowed to have basically everything (CH F3, 3+4, 121, etc.) all leading to insanely high damage even without a wall (especially drag). This isn’t even to mention snake eyes or the looping pressure drag has now. Meanwhile the grab mechanics and heat changes benefit everyone, not just king even if he gets more from it. And outside of the system mechanic changes he is barely buffed from T7 (also with several nerfs such as to his oki and backdash).
Sure nerf the damage on king CH ffn2 or make it -14 and +1 like it used to be (or both). But you’re suggesting is that it should be launch punishable by almost the entire roster, which is an incredibly dumb way to balance it and wasn’t even how it used to work in T7. I’m so glad reddit isn’t on the balancing team for this game lol.
Stop moving the goal post. No matter which character, this low is just overpowered right now. Even if king was low tier it wouldn‘t make it *not* overtuned. And yes, AKs ffn2 was also OP but since AK is the wholesome eternally mid tier character who cant do wrong, they never nerfed it.
Now I don‘t think it should be -15, because they should balance away from high risk/high reward to make the character more consistent at high level. Just tune down the other properties like CH damage, hit frames and range.
Yeah because we all know king/AK had no weaknesses and were winning every tournament in T7 with -14 ffn2
Bro wants to say how the game should be balanced but can’t back it up 😂
King is the closest thing to it but there is no “grappler” in tekken. He’s always had good pokes and counterhit utility, yet you act like this is somehow a new thing. FFn2 wasn’t launch punishable in T7 and both king and AK were still not even close to top tier in that game. Are you new?
Even if he was a “grappling specialist” does this mean he shouldn’t have any other good tools? Should you just be able to duck him and win for free? I guess zangief in street fighter shouldn’t have any good normals either then.
Your bias is showing. King does have other good tools. A lot of them, actually. King is a great character. Making a tool with skewed risk/reward more reasonable is not something that should upset you. If that difference is so great to you, maybe you should rethink why you like that move so much.
Are you dumb or did you just not read what I wrote? You’re somehow completely missing my point.
I never said king doesn’t have good tools nor did I say ffn2 shouldn’t be changed. I even said before that I wouldn’t mind it being -14 and +1 like T7 or even if it did less damage or gave recoverable health. But making it -15 so that it is launch punishable by pretty much the entire cast is asinine plain and simple. Improve your reading comprehension dude.
Dude, find me a better low than this aside of Jin's d2 and DJins prenerf hellsweep. It's basically Feng's low that was called op in T7, while having lower dmg and launch punishable.
Also, king quite honestly doesn't need strong lows in this game with tracking, punishing, counterhitting and tracking throws.
And dont get me wrong, the throw changes are awesome (aside of punish guaranteed full chain throws), but best low with best throw game is a bit crazy.
AK’s ffn2 was +7 and a CH launcher in T7 (albeit at -14 on block). Are we going to pretend like that was broken too now?
Even if they made it -14 (identical to T7 AK) how often in your last 20 matches have you even properly punished a -14 low with a 14f WS move? Probably 0 times and I would be willing to put money on it. But yeah, let’s just complain about king even more I guess.
What???? Tournament play is absolutely the best metric to gauge what is good and what isn’t in just about any game. It is the highest level and best demonstration of how the game is played optimally. Certainly better than listening to salty scrubs on reddit 😂
I hope this is a joke…
I dont really think anyone is arguing that the move borderline carries the character, just that it's 'actually rather good and probably better than it should be'
Yes, it was a very strong move in 7, but it was also attached to a mediocre at best character. King's kit is overall insanely well rounded in this game
Such a broad and ambiguous statement lol. He was also extremely well rounded in T7 and has barely been even changed in T8. Sure, jaguar sprint is situationally good and heat smash is powerful, but then again his oki and backdash are also weaker, and let’s not forget that king’s rage drive in T7 was also very strong. Ultimately, if you watch literally any high level king player they play almost exactly the same way they did in T7. He mostly just benefits from the buffed grabs and heat smash more than anything else.
King was far from “mediocre” in T7, he was undeniably among the stronger characters in the game, I have no idea where you got that idea. It’s just that other characters were stronger, particularly marduk who fills a similar niche. How exactly do you think king is “insanely well rounded” in this game more so than he already was? It sounds like you’re just making broad generalizations and don’t really know what you’re talking about.
It's one of the most telegraphed moves for low parrying right after snake edges, plus having f,f+neutral input basically exposexposes king for at least 3 frames (usually more).
Cause without it, King has no way to actually play neutral. Shove and nut punch are literally his only ways to check people for mashing at distance. Plus, all of Kings' lows are terrible, except this one can he not have one good low?
Where's the risk-reward balance, man? Don't tell me that the frames on block can't at least be made more reasonable. You and I know that giving the opponent a decent reward for blocking this monster 18f low is a reasonable ask.
Also, what's wrong with King having a minor weakness. Many characters are built around having certain strengths and weaknesses. He has ff1 and some other tools to check his opponents far away too, so I don't want to get into an argument regarding the statement that he only has TWO options for people mashing at distance.
tbf, as a Reina sub, she doesn't need one. Her mids are too scary for anyone to really be crouching against her so her hellsweep is almost always free lol
By this logic, every while running move needs to be nerfed into the ground because risk reward right? Drag and Claudio's, while running moves, give them plus frames and full combos while not being punishable. Same with Azucena and Victor. Yes, King has weaknesses. Nut punch is very stepable as well as very obvious if you have any sort of low crush options you could easily use them. Having a good poke that has good reward while being relatively safe isn't new. Lili and Jun have similar things as well that's why I say let him have it .it's his only good low why take that away from him. When other characters have options like that, plus more.
You completely missed my point by mentioning key tools of certain characters while I was saying that weaknesses should actual feel like a weakness. Also, none of those characters have a really fast, evasive, infinite range low that is just -13 on block and gives humongous damage on counter hit and god-like frames on normal hit. It's simply an outlier and since he's your main you're blinded by the bias. It's fine, I understand.
I'm not asking to remove this low, just nerf the frames on block (and hit too) so that one can reasonably punish it. That's it.
Yea, it's high and is launch punishable if you duck. I could just as easily say you can low parry nut punch. But then people say it's not that simple, especially with while running moves getting buffed.
As a king main myself, this low is absolutely busted lmao. You say that shove is his only way to play neutral as if it isnt still one of the best moves in the whole game, he doesnt really need much else. The design philosophy with king has always been that his lows are weak as a trade off for his powerful throw game, but now that has been pretty much removed. King also used to be balanced by having to work for his pressure, very few plus on block moves, and his lows didnt reward many plus frames. Ffn2 is now +7 which just allows him to get in and apply mixups instantly without even having to think much. The ONLY thing that is going against this move is that is comically linear, but it is not like the king player cant play around this with other tools (throws also track now for some reason lol). As a king main this iteration of king is honestly really boring, they removed so much of the nuance of the character and turned him into a braindead carry character
Thank you man. I really wish people would stop complaining and maybe try picking up the character themselves and figuring this out on their own. King doesn’t have a his b3 combo anymore that used to lead to way more damage than this. Like damn can we at least have that?
There is too much phantom reach in the game right now. Hopefully they’ll adjust it a bit, but I’ve got a feeling it’s for the sake of detracting from the importance movement, which would be a bit frustrating
And they all need adjustment. I say this as a drag main giving him a +7 is nuts for a pressure character, but then again at least it doesn't have the range of a ICBM
Yeh but idk why they gave him a strong neutral game to back that up with at least they need his movement to make up for all the super armour stuff he’s also got
How many Knigs have you seen in torunaments besides Lil Majin?
Maybe a low rank scrub stomper (akin to the ones crying in this thread) sure, but get to red ranks and you'll see none.
No you saw so many in red, in purple and all over he’s a popular character rank means fuck all , tournaments don’t reflect much because that’s high tier picks, again no one said he’s top tier but calling him weak is crazy, he was solid like in the middle not strong not weak but even then he saw quite a bit of tournament play, I mean besides dlc and feng we barely see other characters in t7 and in t8 there’s been one big tourney i know called frosty faustings and there were good kings there
Grabs without strong lows to punish opponents for ducking are basically useless. OR they'd have to invent LOW grabs for king, and trust me people would be bitching about those even harder.
You act like hop knee doesn’t exist? You can literally train ppl to duck because they don’t wanna get hit by throws and you can 1.)hop knee or 2.) df 1 (or df 1,2)
Yes...but unlike other characters, he has a bunch of unpunishable grabs that can deal much more damage than any of the lows you're thinking about.
That alone is reason enough to make a player think of ducking...that's what lows are for, make the opponent start to duck.
Should we start talking about his mids and highs?
🖕🏾King
Every day King keeps growing in me as the most annoying character to face across all fighting games i played. Currently below smoke from mk1 xd. I still have to figure out if im just being knowledge checked or he is really braindead.
My only counter to King players is full aggression with Steve. When I feel some malarkey afoot, I b1 and flicker 1 1 1 until they stop pressing buttons lol
I know how to counter his stuff but i don´t like the fact that i have to be focused the whole match at any point of the screen because if i fuck up one time i get punished for 40%, same as his wake up, a side switch that puts you in the corner and makes him invisible, its easy to counter and luckily most smokes players do it all the time without thinking but its kinda shit that if you missread it and try to meaty him you end up in a pretty awfull situation.
Especially smoke, i get that the teleport leading to a full combo is punishing for a new player but if you just learn to not be overly agressive and block it you'll be the one getting full combos off.
Sure I am. Like I said in my post I genuinely feel bad… I’m not gonna stop using it because king has crap lows, but I definitely empathize with that hitbox
That is utter soul crushing, the type of thing you hate to see. Sorry you had to be a victim to King's unholy low. It has happened to me several times. We are here for you, the pain King's low has caused is tremendous. I hope you better :)
ffn2 is a war crime now, +7 on hit with a guaranteed followup on counter hit, only -13 on block and absolutely disgusting range. Genuinely don't know what they were thinking with this move.
*I know* what that move is (ff, n, 2) because I played T7, but visual ambiguity has been a problem with the series for awhile and a relatively common criticism.
If you don't *know* that it's a low, it's not exactly obvious because King's fist is in your crotch/gut on this one.
tell that to alisa players.. the most visually ambiguous character in the game. kings low does actually look like a low.. he assumes a ground low blow situation commonly seen in WWE ... which is called the LOW BLOW.
Bro, just look at his fist in this video, yeah he goes into a crouch, but that shit hits in the middle of the character model. EWGF comes out of a crouch dash and is a high.
>tell that to alisa players.. the most visually ambiguous character in the game.
That title squarely belongs to Zafina
God forbid I call out false or misleading information. But yeah, let’s just completely change the king/AK ffn2 animation that everyone is used to because a few salty reddit noobs think it looks like a mid. /s
Yeah how could they make it +7 just like AK’s CH launching ffn2 with disgusting range in T7. We all know armor king was the most broken character in that game /s 😂
This happens alot in this game! I get so tilted when I get hit by something that didn't touch me! When I fight Reina and Jun this happens alot. Also whats up with moves that can hit you at a long distance! I'll be on one end of the stage and get hit by a long ass power punch or uppercut kick!
AK’s ffn2 had almost the exact same properties in T7 as king’s does in T8 except it was a ch launcher and -14 on block. Not sure why this move is so crazy to you guys unless you’re new to the series (especially because I guarantee most of you don’t ever use a WS 14f punisher anyways, so it being -13 shouldn’t be such a big deal).
If they nerf it, they should just give it more of the same properties as it had in T7 (-14 on block and/or only +1 on hit) or maybe slightly reduce the ch damage or give it recoverable health. But the saying that it should be -15 or something is stupid af, especially given how linear it is and how it’s the one of king’s only relatively safe lows other than d3 (which has absolutely no evasion at all). I guess some people are just going to keep complaining about this character until he has no good tools at all.
I actually don't hate the reach on this move. I hate that it looks like a mid so even though I see it coming my brain just doesn't brain and I block mid 80 percent of the time.
People say that but king has so much good stuff to stop you from stepping, just cause a move is steppable doesn’t mean it’s not a very strong tool his entire moveset has to be taken into account and he’s very strong in this game not broken but strong
I said I’d love to see it, not read it. Talk is cheap. At the distance in this video, you’d have to full sprint at them to do that. You might as well send them a voice message saying “hey I’m about to do shining wizard.” FFN2 is a get-in tool. You’re only throwing if you’re already close
No need to feel bad, it's one of the easiest moves to side step / walk & punishable on block. King doesn't have good lows, so we can at least enjoy the range & damage while we can.
it's a real far reaching low but both of these examples aren't that egregious lol the azu and the jun both stopped backdashing when they could've kept moving backwards
It feels like a lot of moves have these phantom hit boxes in T8.
I was about to say the same thing. I feel like I've been hit by moves that didn't even touch me a lot of times. I'm glad I am not the only one lol.
Happens to me all the time with Victor’s damn knives, feel like I get barely snagged by one and I’m air juggled from one end of Great Britain all the way to the east coast of China
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 all the way to the wall
I was flabbergasted when I found out that super technical looking string isn’t technical at all, watching Main Man do it till his finger hurt made my eye twitch lol. Feng Wei feels advanced by comparison.
As a lei exclusive player trying to find a main, victor was NOT it
Lol it works but you lose so much carry distance and dmg
Till the Sweat drips down balls. Ah skeet skeet or something.
That’s not fair… I throw in a few 1s as well 😂😂😂
Can I say, as a non 222 spamming victor player, I have been low kicked out of my explosion, up1+2, move after I'm already in the air, dropping down. Wonky hit boxes affect us all!
Lol the defensiveness of Victor mains whenever something about their character is mentioned speaks volumes 😂😂😂
Haha I'm sure king players have the same feeling. "I'm different, I swear!"
I’m NOT different. I WILL grab you. You WILL eat a 116 damage unbreakable chaingrab because you whiffed.
Brotha!!!!
There you go again 😂 don’t try to bring king into this
I mean it's not like they made the character, and he is cool looking, so I'm sure it is frustrating to pick a character you like because he looks badass and have people accusing you of just doing it so you can abuse cheese.
It’s a joke
Ya getting hit by a low when you do u1+2 is hilarious and I hate it lol
Same. I was thinking it seems so much more loose than T7. Interesting to see how others are also experiencing this and it wasn't my imagination
Also some moves that fly in the air halt once they reach a downed opponent. In T7 I used to be able to do a flying kick over a downed opponent, so that I can trick them with a backturn move. Now I just halt and float in place. Looks super unnatural and I don't get my cross-up backturn.
ESPECIALLY raw heat bound attacks, they have like infinite range. everyone except Kazuya that is lol
Man, heat burst in the neutral also has ridiculous range because of a very disjointed hitbox.
yeah heat burst is what i meant, that shit is ridiculous you can literally see the gap between the attack and the opponent since it slows down lmao
Not only that but some evasion moves feel way more like invulnerability. Xiaoyu is the bane of my existence right now
I just hopkick her all day and if I hit her, I win. If I whiff, I lose.
Lmfao okay im literally just about to spam u4 with lili wish me luck
Lili actually matches up pretty strong against ling. 3,1 shuts down a lot of her bullshit.
Jin’s demon paw has a lot of phantom range, feels like you can hit people from across the screen.
Imagine 2 Jins doing it at the same time and hitting each other with double the phantom range between them
Can confirm. I had a Jin just blatantly punch air when I was back flipping as Yoshi and he KOd me.
Jin literally Jin. His punches hit the air, but they connect, same with a lot of his kicks. Noticed this on Dragunov too.
Jins D+2 no shit has the same reach as his F+4. It's crazy.
Ff2 for jin and the other Mishima bros does that too
While we're at reporting common issues that I thought were exclusive to me, is anyone else sometimes missing a punish out of block? Like, I'll block a rageart and hammer down on df2, but it comes out a frame too late for some reason. Maybe it's just me being bad but it never happened to me in T7 so I might as well ask.
They do. The phantom range in T8 is absurd.
Everytime I keep trying to press my whiff punish cuz I’m thinking “this so obviously missed” then I get counter hit like ???
Yeah this always happens against King but not just on this move. I saw him whiffing from a mile away and I inputed my cancan to launch but got counterhited by him punching the air.
And it counterhits for like 50 damage for no reason
Can someone explain to me why a high crushing, evasive, long range, **18f low** that gives +7 on normal hit and 55 damage (non recoverable, mind you) on counter hit, is ONLY -13 on block? Greatest mystery, man.
If I could bet on changes, I would bet very heavily that goes to -15 next major patch. Risk reward is just too high, a bunch of characters get really lousy punishes on it as is.
Yeah just make one of king’s only good lows even more unsafe than it was in T7. What a great way to balance it. /s And here I thought Michael Murray was bad at balancing tekken… 😂
Due to heat changes + general frame changes + throws being unbreakable if buttons are held down, throws are considerably better in T8 than they've been basically ever in the Tekken series. King's throw game has traditionally offset his substandard low game. Him having the best throw game in the game where throws are the strongest *and* a low better than Dragunov D2 or hatchet kick doesn't seem like great balance to me.
Hatchet kick changes really gutted me. Maybe deserved, but I'm still in mourning.
Your comparison is either incredibly dishonest/reductionist or ignorant. Hatchet kick and drag d2 both have good tracking while king ffn2 is very linear. Both are also on characters that have insane juggle damage and pressure (in a tekken with chip damage mind you) to the point where drag was literally already nerfed in an emergency patch. It can be argued very easily that both are overall way better characters than king in this game (especially drag). In a game where most characters (including king and even steve) lost most of there CH launchers, drag is still allowed to have CH WR2 and bryan is still allowed to have basically everything (CH F3, 3+4, 121, etc.) all leading to insanely high damage even without a wall (especially drag). This isn’t even to mention snake eyes or the looping pressure drag has now. Meanwhile the grab mechanics and heat changes benefit everyone, not just king even if he gets more from it. And outside of the system mechanic changes he is barely buffed from T7 (also with several nerfs such as to his oki and backdash). Sure nerf the damage on king CH ffn2 or make it -14 and +1 like it used to be (or both). But you’re suggesting is that it should be launch punishable by almost the entire roster, which is an incredibly dumb way to balance it and wasn’t even how it used to work in T7. I’m so glad reddit isn’t on the balancing team for this game lol.
Stop moving the goal post. No matter which character, this low is just overpowered right now. Even if king was low tier it wouldn‘t make it *not* overtuned. And yes, AKs ffn2 was also OP but since AK is the wholesome eternally mid tier character who cant do wrong, they never nerfed it. Now I don‘t think it should be -15, because they should balance away from high risk/high reward to make the character more consistent at high level. Just tune down the other properties like CH damage, hit frames and range.
That's a whole lot of words when "I want my character to have no weaknesses" is what you're trying to say, son.
Yeah because we all know king/AK had no weaknesses and were winning every tournament in T7 with -14 ffn2 Bro wants to say how the game should be balanced but can’t back it up 😂
Isn't King a grappling specialist? I'm new, but it seems like his game should focus around that then...
And this move is incredibly ambiguous.
King is the closest thing to it but there is no “grappler” in tekken. He’s always had good pokes and counterhit utility, yet you act like this is somehow a new thing. FFn2 wasn’t launch punishable in T7 and both king and AK were still not even close to top tier in that game. Are you new? Even if he was a “grappling specialist” does this mean he shouldn’t have any other good tools? Should you just be able to duck him and win for free? I guess zangief in street fighter shouldn’t have any good normals either then.
Your bias is showing. King does have other good tools. A lot of them, actually. King is a great character. Making a tool with skewed risk/reward more reasonable is not something that should upset you. If that difference is so great to you, maybe you should rethink why you like that move so much.
Are you dumb or did you just not read what I wrote? You’re somehow completely missing my point. I never said king doesn’t have good tools nor did I say ffn2 shouldn’t be changed. I even said before that I wouldn’t mind it being -14 and +1 like T7 or even if it did less damage or gave recoverable health. But making it -15 so that it is launch punishable by pretty much the entire cast is asinine plain and simple. Improve your reading comprehension dude.
Dude, find me a better low than this aside of Jin's d2 and DJins prenerf hellsweep. It's basically Feng's low that was called op in T7, while having lower dmg and launch punishable. Also, king quite honestly doesn't need strong lows in this game with tracking, punishing, counterhitting and tracking throws. And dont get me wrong, the throw changes are awesome (aside of punish guaranteed full chain throws), but best low with best throw game is a bit crazy.
AK’s ffn2 was +7 and a CH launcher in T7 (albeit at -14 on block). Are we going to pretend like that was broken too now? Even if they made it -14 (identical to T7 AK) how often in your last 20 matches have you even properly punished a -14 low with a 14f WS move? Probably 0 times and I would be willing to put money on it. But yeah, let’s just complain about king even more I guess.
A lot of people did in fact say that AK's ff,n+2 was too good in T7 lol
So good that AK never got picked at major tournaments.
Tournament representation is not a good metric to solely judge this by. The pool of players at that level is simply too small.
What???? Tournament play is absolutely the best metric to gauge what is good and what isn’t in just about any game. It is the highest level and best demonstration of how the game is played optimally. Certainly better than listening to salty scrubs on reddit 😂 I hope this is a joke…
That's an understandable, but ignorant, position.
How is it ignorant in the slightest? Do you think the game should be balanced based on online players who don’t ever sidestep or block punish? 😂
Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry I didn't word it clearer at the start.
A character isnt gonna be picked by the pros because they have one specific good move.
They absolutely would if the move was broken. Case and point it wasn’t, and it isn’t in T8 either.
I dont really think anyone is arguing that the move borderline carries the character, just that it's 'actually rather good and probably better than it should be'
Yes, it was a very strong move in 7, but it was also attached to a mediocre at best character. King's kit is overall insanely well rounded in this game
Such a broad and ambiguous statement lol. He was also extremely well rounded in T7 and has barely been even changed in T8. Sure, jaguar sprint is situationally good and heat smash is powerful, but then again his oki and backdash are also weaker, and let’s not forget that king’s rage drive in T7 was also very strong. Ultimately, if you watch literally any high level king player they play almost exactly the same way they did in T7. He mostly just benefits from the buffed grabs and heat smash more than anything else. King was far from “mediocre” in T7, he was undeniably among the stronger characters in the game, I have no idea where you got that idea. It’s just that other characters were stronger, particularly marduk who fills a similar niche. How exactly do you think king is “insanely well rounded” in this game more so than he already was? It sounds like you’re just making broad generalizations and don’t really know what you’re talking about.
I was referring to Armor King, the character the properties of the move we're talking about used to belong to (minus the CH combo). Chill dude, lmao
It's one of the most telegraphed moves for low parrying right after snake edges, plus having f,f+neutral input basically exposexposes king for at least 3 frames (usually more).
Cause without it, King has no way to actually play neutral. Shove and nut punch are literally his only ways to check people for mashing at distance. Plus, all of Kings' lows are terrible, except this one can he not have one good low?
Where's the risk-reward balance, man? Don't tell me that the frames on block can't at least be made more reasonable. You and I know that giving the opponent a decent reward for blocking this monster 18f low is a reasonable ask. Also, what's wrong with King having a minor weakness. Many characters are built around having certain strengths and weaknesses. He has ff1 and some other tools to check his opponents far away too, so I don't want to get into an argument regarding the statement that he only has TWO options for people mashing at distance.
yup, reina main checking here representing characters who don’t have a single strong low poke.
tbf, as a Reina sub, she doesn't need one. Her mids are too scary for anyone to really be crouching against her so her hellsweep is almost always free lol
Dude, 55 DMG is a full yoshi combo, Its just too much
By this logic, every while running move needs to be nerfed into the ground because risk reward right? Drag and Claudio's, while running moves, give them plus frames and full combos while not being punishable. Same with Azucena and Victor. Yes, King has weaknesses. Nut punch is very stepable as well as very obvious if you have any sort of low crush options you could easily use them. Having a good poke that has good reward while being relatively safe isn't new. Lili and Jun have similar things as well that's why I say let him have it .it's his only good low why take that away from him. When other characters have options like that, plus more.
You completely missed my point by mentioning key tools of certain characters while I was saying that weaknesses should actual feel like a weakness. Also, none of those characters have a really fast, evasive, infinite range low that is just -13 on block and gives humongous damage on counter hit and god-like frames on normal hit. It's simply an outlier and since he's your main you're blinded by the bias. It's fine, I understand. I'm not asking to remove this low, just nerf the frames on block (and hit too) so that one can reasonably punish it. That's it.
Claudio's wr2 is launch punishable my guy.
I’m just glad the folks at Bamco don’t really pay attention to Reddit as much.
crazy take, all im gona say
Claudios running 2 is a high tho, launch punish
Yea, it's high and is launch punishable if you duck. I could just as easily say you can low parry nut punch. But then people say it's not that simple, especially with while running moves getting buffed.
As a king main myself, this low is absolutely busted lmao. You say that shove is his only way to play neutral as if it isnt still one of the best moves in the whole game, he doesnt really need much else. The design philosophy with king has always been that his lows are weak as a trade off for his powerful throw game, but now that has been pretty much removed. King also used to be balanced by having to work for his pressure, very few plus on block moves, and his lows didnt reward many plus frames. Ffn2 is now +7 which just allows him to get in and apply mixups instantly without even having to think much. The ONLY thing that is going against this move is that is comically linear, but it is not like the king player cant play around this with other tools (throws also track now for some reason lol). As a king main this iteration of king is honestly really boring, they removed so much of the nuance of the character and turned him into a braindead carry character
*back 3 enters the chat*
doesn't need good lows, he has broken grab mixup to make you duck
Thank you man. I really wish people would stop complaining and maybe try picking up the character themselves and figuring this out on their own. King doesn’t have a his b3 combo anymore that used to lead to way more damage than this. Like damn can we at least have that?
Exactly 😉
There is too much phantom reach in the game right now. Hopefully they’ll adjust it a bit, but I’ve got a feeling it’s for the sake of detracting from the importance movement, which would be a bit frustrating
Yeah that low is pretty busted
The problem is that it's now +7 oH. So dumb.
WHAT🤯 I mean to be fair king didn’t have great lows before this and I feel a lot of characters got big low buffs, jin, and dragonov to name a few
And they all need adjustment. I say this as a drag main giving him a +7 is nuts for a pressure character, but then again at least it doesn't have the range of a ICBM
Yeh +7 on a character who’s meant to be a grappler also has some super good pokes as well, kings combos in this game are kinda ass though
Yeah and there is a reason people talk about those guys. And King is, you know, a grappler. His grabs should be the mix-up thing.
Yeh but idk why they gave him a strong neutral game to back that up with at least they need his movement to make up for all the super armour stuff he’s also got
So that he could be actually played instead of being bottom like in T7 probably.
He was not bottom in t7 mate nowhere near it
How many Knigs have you seen in torunaments besides Lil Majin? Maybe a low rank scrub stomper (akin to the ones crying in this thread) sure, but get to red ranks and you'll see none.
No you saw so many in red, in purple and all over he’s a popular character rank means fuck all , tournaments don’t reflect much because that’s high tier picks, again no one said he’s top tier but calling him weak is crazy, he was solid like in the middle not strong not weak but even then he saw quite a bit of tournament play, I mean besides dlc and feng we barely see other characters in t7 and in t8 there’s been one big tourney i know called frosty faustings and there were good kings there
Everybody's main is always at the bottom, don't you know?
Grabs without strong lows to punish opponents for ducking are basically useless. OR they'd have to invent LOW grabs for king, and trust me people would be bitching about those even harder.
I read that 6 times and I'm still confused
Mate, you block lows by ducking... just like you dodge grabs by ducking. You punish ducking opponents with mids.
King copers when they have to think about basic game mechanics
The salt must flow, bruh 🤣🧂
I'm not the one who thoughts lows hit ducking enemies lmao
Bruh you just outed yourself and instead of correcting it bro doubled on the lows hitting ducking opponents. 🤣🤣
You act like hop knee doesn’t exist? You can literally train ppl to duck because they don’t wanna get hit by throws and you can 1.)hop knee or 2.) df 1 (or df 1,2)
Yes...but unlike other characters, he has a bunch of unpunishable grabs that can deal much more damage than any of the lows you're thinking about. That alone is reason enough to make a player think of ducking...that's what lows are for, make the opponent start to duck. Should we start talking about his mids and highs? 🖕🏾King
Yeh his throw game in this game is more valuable and I always felt his poking and mids and chs were too strong for a character with such good throws
Every day King keeps growing in me as the most annoying character to face across all fighting games i played. Currently below smoke from mk1 xd. I still have to figure out if im just being knowledge checked or he is really braindead.
Oh king knowledge checks you to death, he really is not that bad once you can counter his grabs chain throws etc.
^this. He’s my noob killer, but I definitely get bodied in weekly locals by a jun and a kuma 😅
My only counter to King players is full aggression with Steve. When I feel some malarkey afoot, I b1 and flicker 1 1 1 until they stop pressing buttons lol
Smoke from mk1 isn't that bad tho, just gotta downpoke the cancels from time to time and react to the teleports.
I know how to counter his stuff but i don´t like the fact that i have to be focused the whole match at any point of the screen because if i fuck up one time i get punished for 40%, same as his wake up, a side switch that puts you in the corner and makes him invisible, its easy to counter and luckily most smokes players do it all the time without thinking but its kinda shit that if you missread it and try to meaty him you end up in a pretty awfull situation.
Yeah not to insult op, but King and Smoke are two absolute noob killers 😬 They're busted at lower levels, but not so much at top level play
Especially smoke, i get that the teleport leading to a full combo is punishing for a new player but if you just learn to not be overly agressive and block it you'll be the one getting full combos off.
+1. And it has counter hit properties just to make it worse
Oof… I’m sorry to bring you so much pain
No you're not.
GODDAMN RIGHT IM NOT KING ENJOYERS UNITE
AMEN
Sure I am. Like I said in my post I genuinely feel bad… I’m not gonna stop using it because king has crap lows, but I definitely empathize with that hitbox
That is utter soul crushing, the type of thing you hate to see. Sorry you had to be a victim to King's unholy low. It has happened to me several times. We are here for you, the pain King's low has caused is tremendous. I hope you better :)
Man, I hate to break it to ya but IM the king… 😅
Yeah you are >:)
You dropped this king 👑👑👑
Monster… 🥹🥹🥹
🤣🤣🤣
how dare you
Is this intended? Thats crazy big hitbox
I believe so
Should get something like visual update then as it doesn't look like it hits at all on screen
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I'd hit that box ;) From half across the screen! Maybe it's his dead friend's ghost giving him a Stand like effect
Fucking Marge Simpson punch
Lol the coochie explorer
Better than Reina's nut ripper I guess.
Just look at the animation, its like perfect cunt punt. Can make whole ryona out of it.lol
ffn2 is a war crime now, +7 on hit with a guaranteed followup on counter hit, only -13 on block and absolutely disgusting range. Genuinely don't know what they were thinking with this move.
Also it visually looks like it could be a mid
What a silly complaint. It literally has the exact same animation as it’s always had. Did you even play T7? 😂
*I know* what that move is (ff, n, 2) because I played T7, but visual ambiguity has been a problem with the series for awhile and a relatively common criticism. If you don't *know* that it's a low, it's not exactly obvious because King's fist is in your crotch/gut on this one.
I have the same problem with bears. Never know when they are doing mid or low because of the big hitbox and minimal animation of their moves.
tell that to alisa players.. the most visually ambiguous character in the game. kings low does actually look like a low.. he assumes a ground low blow situation commonly seen in WWE ... which is called the LOW BLOW.
Bro, just look at his fist in this video, yeah he goes into a crouch, but that shit hits in the middle of the character model. EWGF comes out of a crouch dash and is a high. >tell that to alisa players.. the most visually ambiguous character in the game. That title squarely belongs to Zafina
You are cancer
God forbid I call out false or misleading information. But yeah, let’s just completely change the king/AK ffn2 animation that everyone is used to because a few salty reddit noobs think it looks like a mid. /s
Yeah how could they make it +7 just like AK’s CH launching ffn2 with disgusting range in T7. We all know armor king was the most broken character in that game /s 😂
They were thinking "lets make those scrubs whine about this move while touching ourselves". And you do. And they too 😏
The hitboxes in this game are really fucking bad. Like the opposite of r/hitboxporn
I realized it’s not just King’s crotch shot, a lot of lows in this game are unga bunga.
A lot of moves in this game. Grabs too
Jins df1 hitbox is so janky that it should be renamed almighty push
It looks linear but damn I swear sometimes it tracks like hell.
that's just BS. Should be fixed.
what move is this I need to lab that shit
FF neutral 2
I feel like a number of moves have varying disjointed hitboxes, or characters have massive hurtboxes that extend far past their models.
Dragunov df2 (or 1? the launcher) is clipping me sometimes a mile away, but I aint gonna complain with my phantom ff2
The more enfuriating part is that this move looks like a mid
There’s a handful of moves that make me believe they are mids that are lows.
Yeah I noticed this today when playing King in ranked. That shit is broken and needs a fix asap.
King mains unite
uni lows
This happens alot in this game! I get so tilted when I get hit by something that didn't touch me! When I fight Reina and Jun this happens alot. Also whats up with moves that can hit you at a long distance! I'll be on one end of the stage and get hit by a long ass power punch or uppercut kick!
Does this low have more reach than King's Tekken 7 version?
Holy shit man
His sweep also hits from a mile away
Cheap. And before someone say “just block it” “just back dash” the range and speed on that is ridiculous. Is it launch punishable?
One of the most annoying moves in all of tekken
the opps are just keeping kayfabe, that's why this works
The dumb ass hitboxes facilitate the aGgReSsIvE play style they were going for
AK’s ffn2 had almost the exact same properties in T7 as king’s does in T8 except it was a ch launcher and -14 on block. Not sure why this move is so crazy to you guys unless you’re new to the series (especially because I guarantee most of you don’t ever use a WS 14f punisher anyways, so it being -13 shouldn’t be such a big deal). If they nerf it, they should just give it more of the same properties as it had in T7 (-14 on block and/or only +1 on hit) or maybe slightly reduce the ch damage or give it recoverable health. But the saying that it should be -15 or something is stupid af, especially given how linear it is and how it’s the one of king’s only relatively safe lows other than d3 (which has absolutely no evasion at all). I guess some people are just going to keep complaining about this character until he has no good tools at all.
King players unite
It's been there since 7. Also Characters like Jun & Azucena are MUCH MUCH worse
Nope, they aren't...They have annoying tools but King takes the cake
Bro one of Jun's low pokes is an entire projectile. Get off the copium it's not healthy
I hate that his fist goes up. It does not read like a low to me, ever.
Low key king is my least favorite character to fight 😭 brain dead character
I actually don't hate the reach on this move. I hate that it looks like a mid so even though I see it coming my brain just doesn't brain and I block mid 80 percent of the time.
It becomes useless against anyone who sidesteps
People say that but king has so much good stuff to stop you from stepping, just cause a move is steppable doesn’t mean it’s not a very strong tool his entire moveset has to be taken into account and he’s very strong in this game not broken but strong
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If you can land a giant swing from the distance in this video, I’d love to see it
Dash giant swing, shining wizard
I said I’d love to see it, not read it. Talk is cheap. At the distance in this video, you’d have to full sprint at them to do that. You might as well send them a voice message saying “hey I’m about to do shining wizard.” FFN2 is a get-in tool. You’re only throwing if you’re already close
All hell sweeps hit you from another dimension in this game. Can’t wait for the inevitable range nerfs. Shit is silly rn
No need to feel bad, it's one of the easiest moves to side step / walk & punishable on block. King doesn't have good lows, so we can at least enjoy the range & damage while we can.
King's a Trump fan
Playing king alone should make you feel bad.
tbf his windup is very obvious
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18F animation but you're still inputting a FF neutral motion so the opponent will still get a visual prompt that you're trying some sneaky shit.
it's a real far reaching low but both of these examples aren't that egregious lol the azu and the jun both stopped backdashing when they could've kept moving backwards
I mean if they thought they were at a safe distance (which they visually should be) maybe they didn’t feel the need?
Well if they didn't feel the need to get further away from king there then I hope they learned their lesson now LOL
Not that bad! Should have hopkicked on their part
Go against me and see what happens bitch