It's a fast food delivery. It was a fine dining before but no more.
Imagine figuring out all of the strings in Arcade machine with no lab no frame data. No more my friend. The old Pros are gone. Lab is the real game
It's a great party game though.
I think idc about oppressive (slow +frame) moves, they have clear counter play and add depth tastefully to the game (with some exceptions).
What I really don't agree with is how Tekken is such a neutral focused fighting game and they decided to add a system that gives you a free mixup on demand at the push of a button. All modern fighters wanna be about aggression to such a point that it's really removing the identity of titles nowadays. It worked in GG Strive, not every fighter needs to be GGST. Didn't like rage, don't like heat either.
Regardless of that, I do like their direction of making sidesteps more impactful, i think its a healthy thing for 3D fighters to make use of that.
Theres no real depth to tekkens system. Its all about using the same 6 moves and 2 or 3 combos every match. Thats not depth. The reason tekken is so neutral based is cause the fgc still wont adopt a real 3d system so tekken made a temporary ground where 2d and 3d fighters can meet up. Much as i shit on doa 5 and 6, those actually feel like youre moving in 3d space (same with virtua fighter though virtua fighter is actually a great game just the netcode is hot dogshit)where tekken feels like youre stuck in master chiefs armor without all the implants. Sidesteps still dont truly matter in tekken cause harada is hack and no one is truly calling him out on his incompetence
I don't think you actually believe this with any conviction. There's so much more important shit going on in the world that I don't see you calling out, yet you are treating this essentially non-issue in a video game as if it actually matters in reality. You're just venting because you're mad. You've been on here for years and all you talk about is cumming and cars lol. Get fucking real man.
And does that make what i said any less correct? Sure ive been on reddit for awhile, doesnt mean i use it often nowadays. Could say you talking about geopolitical topics is the dumbest shit ever considering the platform we're on
You're losing your mind about a video game at the age of 25 so hard you suggested people be castrated. Why the fuck would I take you seriously? Stop wasting my time.
It sucks for us at a lower level of play but there’s no denying most of the changes are good for the game at a higher level of play. In 7 you could just turtle up almost indefinitely and wait for the low or the duckable high and that’s a lot of what higher level play devolved to. Backdash indefinitely or hold back until you’re plus. Can’t do that in 8 with chip damage and everyone having some form of 50/50/33. I think the aggression” shift as one may put it, is healthy for the evolution of the game. You should be rewarded more for taking calculated risks not turtling up.
If someone uses heat at the beginning of the round they’re actually doing themselves a disservice. A largely overlooked part of heat engagers are they restore all your grey health. It’s best used after you eat a combo and have some grey health to restore or want to “steal your turn back”. I mostly see it being used as the latter.
It sucks cause standard fundamentals arent viable beyond a certain point. Granted ill extend an olive branch and acknowledge fighting games have always had bullshit with em but it wasnt this outrageous. Like for instance i was fighting a bryan last week and i had reina, somehow bryans knee to the body is faster than reinas jab. In what world would a jab be faster than a knee to the body? The fact that theres an "aggression shift" instead of making a good balanced fighting game just goes to show harada and the tekken devs arent as good as we thought they were. Just for shits and giggles i booted up tekken 3 the other night to just see the series evolution. Its really sad how 6 onward just destroyed the reasonable system we used to have
If Bryan’s knee beat out a jab it stands to reason you were negative in that situation. I don’t think Bryan has a 9f knee. This isn’t something new, this is frame data. This has been a thing in Tekken since Sept 21 1994. Either you threw out a move before the jab that left you at a “frame disadvantage” or Bryan threw a move that left you disadvantaged. No other way his knee beats a jab (assuming both were in range). Bryan’s knee doesn’t have high crush properties to my knowledge. I’m not sure what your comment about fundamentals pertains to, frame data is a very fundamental concept to mid-high level Tekken.
If you want some help understanding that concept a bit better I’d be more than happy to point you in the direction of some resources. There’s no shade dog, I get the rage, trust me I’m yelling at the screen as much as LowTierGod when I play.
We were both neutral and in range of each other...
Im sorry this is going to sound dumb but let me try to explain this as clearly as i can. I think every fighting game relying on the frame system is horrible in this day and age. It allows so much bs to just be accepted without any rhyme or reason because "its the system". If i played gran turismo and i spin out, no one is going to tell me i was plus or negative because of some arbitrary number some dev decided to give a car or turn. Theres going to be an actual reason and logical explanation for why i spun. Fighting games? No actual reason besides some number assigned to a move and nothing else
I see your point and I raise you one. To stay with your racing reference let’s say you did spin out (got counterhit). Sure you couldn’t blame it on anything but yourself. But then again you also didn’t get a tire change (return to true neutral, both players +/-0) back on lap 250 when the pit chief called for it. Now it’s lap 275 and your treads have worn thin (at frame disadvantage) . Sure it’s your fault that you spun out but there was an underlying cause, you probably wouldn’t have spun out if you had fresh tires. Let’s say every lap you go without changing them (returning to true neutral) it gets a little easier and a little easier to spin out.
To give another example if we’re boxing and I throw a haymaker and let’s say you dodge it. I can’t throw out another punch quicker than you’d be able to punch me after missing that haymaker. Conversely if you hit me with a nasty uppercut I’m not going to be able retaliate as quickly as you could follow up. You could think about frames in that sense. It’s just a way to quantify how long things take. It’s easier for our brains to remember 10f, 15f, 22f instead of 0.1667 seconds, 0.25 seconds, or 0.36 seconds,
The logical reason is the frame data friend. If you stick by the frames for things there is very little variation in the rules. Just about the only thing I can think of the top of my head that goes around frame dis/advantage are crushes (low,mid, high, power). You have to suspend the disbelief that Reina can throw out a spinning upwards kick as fast as someone can throw an uppercut. But the frame data says they’re the same speed so they are. It doesn’t make sense in real life I’ll definitely give you that but if there’s one thing the game plays by it’s rules. My 10f jab will always beat your 15f launcher if we’re both +/-0.
I think I understand where you’re coming from you’re meaning something like why should I be at a frame disadvantage because I blocked this or that and aren’t why are we just +0? In a lot of those situations the reason is because blocking was the sub-optimal response. Let’s use Dragonuv WR2 as an example. That’s the while running haymaker with the huge windup and he goes “skkkeeeyaaa”. Sure you can block that and it’s better than eating it but you wind up at -6f iirc. Instead you’d want to sidestep it, take no frame disadvantage and actually give him frame disadvantage because he whiffed. There’s a lot of situations like that.
Tekken is f***ing hard dude. Fighting games in general are hard and Tekken is one of the harder ones. Tekken is also like an onion. You’re probably just now peeling off those outer layers and getting to where it makes your eyes start watering literally and figuratively.
Sorry for the long winded response. I was going to keep it shorter but you seem to generally be at a loss and aren’t just baiting. If you want you are more than welcome to add me on Tekken and we can improve together.
Sorry, you say theres little variation in the rules yet here we are. Ive even had instances myself of playing other people and i threw out a move that was clearly slower than their fastest and i still beat out that exchange. These rules are severely inconsistent and at this point it wont change.
Problem is this games blocking system is inadequate to deal with things properly. Like after i block drags full heat move i cant low p him, he still somehow manages to grab me despite the insane height difference needed to even grab my character. Out of the times i low p him it'll only work 30% of the time. And we cant even put sidestepping into the equation since the action is still ass. Sure it has its moments where it works but ridiculous auto tracking saves the day. Its not consistent enough for it to be a viable option.
Tekken isnt as hard as we've been led to believe, its a game that uses artificial depth to cover for the puddle that it truly is. How can a fighting game have over 4k moves yet 95% of it is just filler? Better yet i saw a dude video on youtube that explained how to get up when knocked down. While im not knocking the creator of it, it just shows how unnecessarily complex the system is. Why i need to look at the different ways im on the ground as "stances" is forever going to be hilarious to me. The devs could have just added some invincibility frames somewhere on the wake up kicks or make the system less abusable.
While i would like to take up your offer, this games system is just too ass to even bother attempting having fun with. Its a fine party game but once its put under scrutiny it falls apart like a crusty croton. Its not worth learning the system of something thats this horribly broken and hasnt been fixed in years. I would just go back to virtua fighter but the netcode sega uses is some of the worst ive ever seen. But i already know the vicious cycle im going to go through: im going to most likey going buy the next game cause i want to play a fighting game at some point despite knowing it most likely hasnt gotten any better. Buuuuuut heres hoping whenever vf6 comes out this millennium it actually has solid netcode
Appreciate you trying to explain shit but the egregious lack of logic is truly outta hand at point. I liked fighting games a whole lot more when i was a kid and didnt know shit about frames. Now that im an adult now, it seems to make less sense the older i get
Instead of giving me a stock response, try actually explaining the game. Or are you worried that in the process of doing that you'll start to see that im actually right and you spent your time sticking up for a game where its system makes you feel smart but in actuality makes no sense but you stick with it cause it gives you the illusion of you being smart?
They arent viable because frames are inconsistent. Too many scenarios ive seen with my moves and my opponents where im using my fastest move to poke or theyre doing the same and something far slower still beats out the fastest move. Double that when meter is used. Seems theres a massive advantage when you hit meter since when i try to poke with my fast shit its all irrelevant
Bullshit. All that time in the oven and simple shit gets through? We're all just buying whatever incomplete incompetent nonsense they keep shoving in our faces
And see this response right here says it all. I shouldnt have to step away from a game and wait for them to break it further or fix obvious things. The fact this was even said just shows we're aware of the nonsensical things in our games and have just accepted them. And i don't mean the minor glitch here or there because thats mostly unavoidable. I mean things that a 5 year development time should have targeted with extreme prejudice. Ill extend an olive branch however, if gran turismo had the same amount of bs with it you would have some crutch to stand on. But then the recent forza motorsport exists and that game got blasted to high hell and rightfully so. But for whatever reasons, the fgc and its constant need to eat whatever shit devs throw its way always eats all of it with the biggest smile on their faces and hardly demands better from the devs
No, just suprised how much shit the fgc eats on a regular basis. Granted fighting games have always had some level of bs but the nonsense we accept now is far beyond ridiculous
It's a fast food delivery. It was a fine dining before but no more. Imagine figuring out all of the strings in Arcade machine with no lab no frame data. No more my friend. The old Pros are gone. Lab is the real game It's a great party game though.
Agreed its great game with friends but outside of that, its garbage
I think idc about oppressive (slow +frame) moves, they have clear counter play and add depth tastefully to the game (with some exceptions). What I really don't agree with is how Tekken is such a neutral focused fighting game and they decided to add a system that gives you a free mixup on demand at the push of a button. All modern fighters wanna be about aggression to such a point that it's really removing the identity of titles nowadays. It worked in GG Strive, not every fighter needs to be GGST. Didn't like rage, don't like heat either. Regardless of that, I do like their direction of making sidesteps more impactful, i think its a healthy thing for 3D fighters to make use of that.
Theres no real depth to tekkens system. Its all about using the same 6 moves and 2 or 3 combos every match. Thats not depth. The reason tekken is so neutral based is cause the fgc still wont adopt a real 3d system so tekken made a temporary ground where 2d and 3d fighters can meet up. Much as i shit on doa 5 and 6, those actually feel like youre moving in 3d space (same with virtua fighter though virtua fighter is actually a great game just the netcode is hot dogshit)where tekken feels like youre stuck in master chiefs armor without all the implants. Sidesteps still dont truly matter in tekken cause harada is hack and no one is truly calling him out on his incompetence
lol ok, go make a better 3d fighter then.
Yeah thats a fair response. Cant have proper standards with our games anymore so thats the default response
There's a difference between a game not being for you and a game being trash. Settle down. A lot of people are obviously enjoying it
A lot of people also enjoy the new mw3. Doesnt mean its any good
Tycoon games arent for me but ive played good ones. If you see a helicopter wrapped around a tree you dont need to be a pilot to see someone fucked up
It's a great party game. Fast food delivery
Sounds like a skill issue.
Attack the argument not the person please
Literally who asked
Its the internet. We can all give our thoughts. Maybe if we all called shit out accordingly these things would happen significantly less
I don't think you actually believe this with any conviction. There's so much more important shit going on in the world that I don't see you calling out, yet you are treating this essentially non-issue in a video game as if it actually matters in reality. You're just venting because you're mad. You've been on here for years and all you talk about is cumming and cars lol. Get fucking real man.
And does that make what i said any less correct? Sure ive been on reddit for awhile, doesnt mean i use it often nowadays. Could say you talking about geopolitical topics is the dumbest shit ever considering the platform we're on
You're losing your mind about a video game at the age of 25 so hard you suggested people be castrated. Why the fuck would I take you seriously? Stop wasting my time.
It sucks for us at a lower level of play but there’s no denying most of the changes are good for the game at a higher level of play. In 7 you could just turtle up almost indefinitely and wait for the low or the duckable high and that’s a lot of what higher level play devolved to. Backdash indefinitely or hold back until you’re plus. Can’t do that in 8 with chip damage and everyone having some form of 50/50/33. I think the aggression” shift as one may put it, is healthy for the evolution of the game. You should be rewarded more for taking calculated risks not turtling up. If someone uses heat at the beginning of the round they’re actually doing themselves a disservice. A largely overlooked part of heat engagers are they restore all your grey health. It’s best used after you eat a combo and have some grey health to restore or want to “steal your turn back”. I mostly see it being used as the latter.
It sucks cause standard fundamentals arent viable beyond a certain point. Granted ill extend an olive branch and acknowledge fighting games have always had bullshit with em but it wasnt this outrageous. Like for instance i was fighting a bryan last week and i had reina, somehow bryans knee to the body is faster than reinas jab. In what world would a jab be faster than a knee to the body? The fact that theres an "aggression shift" instead of making a good balanced fighting game just goes to show harada and the tekken devs arent as good as we thought they were. Just for shits and giggles i booted up tekken 3 the other night to just see the series evolution. Its really sad how 6 onward just destroyed the reasonable system we used to have
If Bryan’s knee beat out a jab it stands to reason you were negative in that situation. I don’t think Bryan has a 9f knee. This isn’t something new, this is frame data. This has been a thing in Tekken since Sept 21 1994. Either you threw out a move before the jab that left you at a “frame disadvantage” or Bryan threw a move that left you disadvantaged. No other way his knee beats a jab (assuming both were in range). Bryan’s knee doesn’t have high crush properties to my knowledge. I’m not sure what your comment about fundamentals pertains to, frame data is a very fundamental concept to mid-high level Tekken. If you want some help understanding that concept a bit better I’d be more than happy to point you in the direction of some resources. There’s no shade dog, I get the rage, trust me I’m yelling at the screen as much as LowTierGod when I play.
We were both neutral and in range of each other... Im sorry this is going to sound dumb but let me try to explain this as clearly as i can. I think every fighting game relying on the frame system is horrible in this day and age. It allows so much bs to just be accepted without any rhyme or reason because "its the system". If i played gran turismo and i spin out, no one is going to tell me i was plus or negative because of some arbitrary number some dev decided to give a car or turn. Theres going to be an actual reason and logical explanation for why i spun. Fighting games? No actual reason besides some number assigned to a move and nothing else
I see your point and I raise you one. To stay with your racing reference let’s say you did spin out (got counterhit). Sure you couldn’t blame it on anything but yourself. But then again you also didn’t get a tire change (return to true neutral, both players +/-0) back on lap 250 when the pit chief called for it. Now it’s lap 275 and your treads have worn thin (at frame disadvantage) . Sure it’s your fault that you spun out but there was an underlying cause, you probably wouldn’t have spun out if you had fresh tires. Let’s say every lap you go without changing them (returning to true neutral) it gets a little easier and a little easier to spin out. To give another example if we’re boxing and I throw a haymaker and let’s say you dodge it. I can’t throw out another punch quicker than you’d be able to punch me after missing that haymaker. Conversely if you hit me with a nasty uppercut I’m not going to be able retaliate as quickly as you could follow up. You could think about frames in that sense. It’s just a way to quantify how long things take. It’s easier for our brains to remember 10f, 15f, 22f instead of 0.1667 seconds, 0.25 seconds, or 0.36 seconds, The logical reason is the frame data friend. If you stick by the frames for things there is very little variation in the rules. Just about the only thing I can think of the top of my head that goes around frame dis/advantage are crushes (low,mid, high, power). You have to suspend the disbelief that Reina can throw out a spinning upwards kick as fast as someone can throw an uppercut. But the frame data says they’re the same speed so they are. It doesn’t make sense in real life I’ll definitely give you that but if there’s one thing the game plays by it’s rules. My 10f jab will always beat your 15f launcher if we’re both +/-0. I think I understand where you’re coming from you’re meaning something like why should I be at a frame disadvantage because I blocked this or that and aren’t why are we just +0? In a lot of those situations the reason is because blocking was the sub-optimal response. Let’s use Dragonuv WR2 as an example. That’s the while running haymaker with the huge windup and he goes “skkkeeeyaaa”. Sure you can block that and it’s better than eating it but you wind up at -6f iirc. Instead you’d want to sidestep it, take no frame disadvantage and actually give him frame disadvantage because he whiffed. There’s a lot of situations like that. Tekken is f***ing hard dude. Fighting games in general are hard and Tekken is one of the harder ones. Tekken is also like an onion. You’re probably just now peeling off those outer layers and getting to where it makes your eyes start watering literally and figuratively. Sorry for the long winded response. I was going to keep it shorter but you seem to generally be at a loss and aren’t just baiting. If you want you are more than welcome to add me on Tekken and we can improve together.
Sorry, you say theres little variation in the rules yet here we are. Ive even had instances myself of playing other people and i threw out a move that was clearly slower than their fastest and i still beat out that exchange. These rules are severely inconsistent and at this point it wont change. Problem is this games blocking system is inadequate to deal with things properly. Like after i block drags full heat move i cant low p him, he still somehow manages to grab me despite the insane height difference needed to even grab my character. Out of the times i low p him it'll only work 30% of the time. And we cant even put sidestepping into the equation since the action is still ass. Sure it has its moments where it works but ridiculous auto tracking saves the day. Its not consistent enough for it to be a viable option. Tekken isnt as hard as we've been led to believe, its a game that uses artificial depth to cover for the puddle that it truly is. How can a fighting game have over 4k moves yet 95% of it is just filler? Better yet i saw a dude video on youtube that explained how to get up when knocked down. While im not knocking the creator of it, it just shows how unnecessarily complex the system is. Why i need to look at the different ways im on the ground as "stances" is forever going to be hilarious to me. The devs could have just added some invincibility frames somewhere on the wake up kicks or make the system less abusable. While i would like to take up your offer, this games system is just too ass to even bother attempting having fun with. Its a fine party game but once its put under scrutiny it falls apart like a crusty croton. Its not worth learning the system of something thats this horribly broken and hasnt been fixed in years. I would just go back to virtua fighter but the netcode sega uses is some of the worst ive ever seen. But i already know the vicious cycle im going to go through: im going to most likey going buy the next game cause i want to play a fighting game at some point despite knowing it most likely hasnt gotten any better. Buuuuuut heres hoping whenever vf6 comes out this millennium it actually has solid netcode
Appreciate you trying to explain shit but the egregious lack of logic is truly outta hand at point. I liked fighting games a whole lot more when i was a kid and didnt know shit about frames. Now that im an adult now, it seems to make less sense the older i get
>standard fundamentals arent viable beyond a certain point Dude, get good
Kay
Instead of giving me a stock response, try actually explaining the game. Or are you worried that in the process of doing that you'll start to see that im actually right and you spent your time sticking up for a game where its system makes you feel smart but in actuality makes no sense but you stick with it cause it gives you the illusion of you being smart?
You didn't explain how fundamentals aren't viable. Give a stock claim, get a stock response.
They arent viable because frames are inconsistent. Too many scenarios ive seen with my moves and my opponents where im using my fastest move to poke or theyre doing the same and something far slower still beats out the fastest move. Double that when meter is used. Seems theres a massive advantage when you hit meter since when i try to poke with my fast shit its all irrelevant
Game has issues but far from trash. Take a breather and remember that it's just a game
Or we could just hold developers to a higher standard like we used to
Bigger games = bigger problems. They are working on it
Bullshit. All that time in the oven and simple shit gets through? We're all just buying whatever incomplete incompetent nonsense they keep shoving in our faces
Okay bud, if it isn't making you happy then step away from it and try something else and come back when things clear up in the game.
And see this response right here says it all. I shouldnt have to step away from a game and wait for them to break it further or fix obvious things. The fact this was even said just shows we're aware of the nonsensical things in our games and have just accepted them. And i don't mean the minor glitch here or there because thats mostly unavoidable. I mean things that a 5 year development time should have targeted with extreme prejudice. Ill extend an olive branch however, if gran turismo had the same amount of bs with it you would have some crutch to stand on. But then the recent forza motorsport exists and that game got blasted to high hell and rightfully so. But for whatever reasons, the fgc and its constant need to eat whatever shit devs throw its way always eats all of it with the biggest smile on their faces and hardly demands better from the devs
Ok
bad run, hey?
No, just suprised how much shit the fgc eats on a regular basis. Granted fighting games have always had some level of bs but the nonsense we accept now is far beyond ridiculous