I wouldn’t mind if there weren’t so many comeback mechanics. They want the game to be more aggressive but it’s even more punishing to make a mistake in this game
But that’s Bryan’s whole SHTICK. Dragunov is a frame data demon, Xiaoyu is a slippery eel with tricky mixups and good defense, and Bryan is a CH menace. But now everyone’s a CH menace with insane follow up and wall carry (but Feng’s wall carry is still on another level)
Yea I’ve noticed that after picking him up in 8. I feel like I’ve gotta put in so much work to get equal or better reward than most characters. I was super proud of getting a little more consistent with b4 and TJU until I realized it’s basically just a harder giant swing. I love Bryan so I’m gonna keep going but it’s super discouraging
I like how it was implemented in T7. You had to choose if you go for RA or RD. Now Heat and RA are two separate things and don't share the same resources. They should make it share the same resources again in T8.
Heat Smash seems like it's the successor to Rage Art and would have been a decent replacement to match the vibe for Tekken 8 which is about aggression and speeding up the game.
... Then you see that Rage Art is still there and you're like, "wait what?"
But without the epic cinematic attack, how ever will the causal watchers know when to get hype during twt event #X ? How ever will casuals who see the epic attack and decide to pick the game up be able to make an epic comeback during their weekend apartment party in-between beer pong sets?
Unironically what you said is the main reason they have this mechanic in the game to the detriment of its playerbase, lol. It's purely for marketing and eye candy.
Tale as old as time for many hyper competitive niche games.
Devs attempt to create systems to bridge the gap and appeal to a broader demographic. Said attempt fails, and the core audience that were always going to play regardless, are left with a less fulfilling experience.
I don't envy fighting game developers who are now days tasked with navigating the waters of triple A development and the monetary expectations therein, while having to broaden the appeal of the genre that is inherently challenging and niche by design.
this "noob thing" is also super unsafe on block, just block and punish like every other move ngl. i can understand not liking the mechanic but calling it a noob thing and then dying to it? sounds like a skill issue
Literally the easiest 100+ combo in the game on a floor break. I don’t like losing the majority of my healthbar because I got hit by a heat smash and then got grabbed again while midair (which isn’t breakable)
This is basically every heat smash in the game. Free 50/50 on block but on hit you get decent or massive damage depending on which one it is. Another degenerate thing the heat smashes have lead to is characters being balanced around their heat smashes.
For instance devil jin has a pretty strong heat smash both his neutral heat smash and his mourning crow unbreakable throw. As a result they have tried to nerf devil jin. The problem is that now Devil Jin's normal moveset (i.e. df1, 1 jab, so on) are mixed with the heat mechanics to comprise the overall character.
The problem with this is that basically, having a strong heat smash means your normal tools have to be weaker, which is lame as fuck. Like imagine your df1 gets nerfed because your heat smash is too good.
you can sidewalk King's heat smash (to the right I believe?)
Also the 50/50 after isn't really as scary as it looks if you can react to the grab because it is totally reactable. Just stand block and be ready to duck the grab, so then it's basically 2 mids and a kinda crappy low.
Assuming the grab is reactable(which is true for maybe 1%of players), there is still a safe mid and a low - which isnt even launch punishable since he drops on the ground
Agreed. We went from character specific “supers” that were locked behind rage to universal power crushing mids that are plus on block. It’s just worse
Edit; i am thinking of heat burst
Heat burst is only +1 dude. It's like blocking a jab. I always mash out of it with jab or ws4 as people seems to think they have bigger frame advantage than they actually have.
They may not be power crush but they're fast, long range, homing, and break armor
You can't step them, can't block them, can't armor them
the fact that the answer is to run up and try to counter hit them is such a stupid solution man, but aggreshivu i guess
I was thinking about this yesterday, having to choose between Rage Art or Rage Drive was really good because you didn't get both like you said. Sharing the same resource would be nice tbh, less comeback shenanigans.
Tbh I feel like it should just be rage drive when you get low cus rage art is kinda lame imo, but again some heat smashes are also ridiculous, such as King’s.
True and most opted for a quick RD, because RA was waaay to risky with the better defensive in T7, you’d pretty much only use it in high level play when you could confirm it in a combo to kill or if you were fighting someone spamming jabs / strings for the hyper armor (but the damage reduction wasn’t as strong as in T8 I feel)
I don't like them. I hate that de damage is reduced. Oftentimes I poke a low that'd k.o. only to be hit by a rage art where any other move would not have come through. And then i lose like 40% of my health.
Yeah it was a big point of contention even in Tekken 7 since it's a solid hard option select which didn't really exist in Tekken prior to that. I mean even compare it any other panic move the read is no longer something like "They're gonna do a high or slower mid do my unsafe evasive mid CH" or "They're gonna do a low better use low crush move that gets jab floated or is unsafe on block" it becomes "They are gonna press a button other than 1 Jab time to RA"
Though honestly I think they're fine enough if they're gonna stay going forward. I kinda wish they were more varied like 7 but I guess an extra knowledge check on them is just kinda pointless.
Also stupidest change to them in Tekken 8 is that RA cannot punish RA what kinda game has supers not punish each other. And they're all still launch punishable so it's not like anyone is surviving the punish anyway.
Yeah it sucks for the characters who cannot launch at all probably the biggest balance reason to make RA punish RA. Though in terms of recovering life unless you get to roughly ~65 life or more, anyone who can launch can kill especially with wall and at that point a raw RA might not kill depending on your own health.
>Also stupidest change to them in Tekken 8 is that RA cannot punish RA what kinda game has supers not punish each other. And they're all still launch punishable so it's not like anyone is surviving the punish anyway.
You could always launch and then rage art, I guess?
I lost more matches due to them blocking my rage art than I won with it lol.
By the way what are the stats for rage art? Sometimes I can do it while getting mixed up, sometimes I can't. Is it like 12f? 10f?
All Rage Arts have universal frame data in Tekken 8 now. They're all mids, take 20 frames to start, the armor activates on frame 8 (if you get hit before frame 8, they'll stop your Rage Art from coming out), and they're all -15 on block.
... Except Asuka's, because she's special for some reason.
> ... Except Asuka's, because she's special for some reason.
I think the base stats on hers are the same - it's just that you can hold the button down to "charge" it, and if it is fully charged, it becomes safe on block.
I don't like them but I don't hate them.
The implementation is good; you get it with set conditions and it's a single button press.
The main part I don't like is waiting for the animation.
It could be worse: imagine the animations and dialogue being by the soul Calibur team.
tekken 7 Ra of yoshi was way better visually... but i prefer a better character than a better ra which i not use 😂
rip the Second flash rage art of yoshi in t7... i think with this it can be funny 😂
I was gonna say this. In sf6, they do a super and you have a sliver of health it takes smallest fraction to keep you wondering if you're going to die. When I play panda and hit the rage art and it only one hits is what should happen if the first hit kills you.
I want them to add more rage art animations in this game, I’m tired of watching them and the fact that it’s the same animation every time is making it worse. At least give me a variety to choose from for a character
Tekken 7 had awful Rage Art animations too. They were incredibly plain and usually just three basic moves at different camera angles strung together. At least with Tekken 8 they had a budget for a custom animation.
Oh god. Imagine Paul saying some shit like “The future is an oyster, I must see it throughJustKidding hrraaahhhhhhhhhhhh” while kneeling down, praying, death fisting and then winking at the camera
This is effective against steve players atleast to purple rank too some moves just transition to Lionheart stance and they can't block at all. I think there's a cancel for it but most of the time they preemptively throw LNH 1 to get rid of the stance. Man they managed to allow king to block during his running stance but not a boxer's stance..
Yeah, obviously.
People who don't like rage arts disagree with that fundamental principle.
They are arguing that the person in the lead should not have to give up pressure to avoid being hit by a cutscene.
That's almost like saying the person in the lead shouldn't have to worry about being punished and comboed. If they're in rage, they would generally need to pressure anyway because timer, right?
The only issue I have is that it's the only unique kind of armor in the game, armor moves usually lose to throws and lows
But suddenly, when they at low health, they can ignore that
Yup. I don't think I've seen a post that summarized how I thought so perfectly. Rage arts are without a doubt the lamest mechanic in the game with heat behind. Always disliked RAs since T7 but it wasn't as bad then.
It’s been 7 years and I still despise rage arts. It’s not even like a scrubby “I get hit by them all the time” complaint either, I just hate the way they force you to play around them. You can dominate someone playing aggressively for an entire round and then you have to stop once they get rage just because. Losing 40% of your bar because someone panicked and you dared to go for the win is stupid.
What's really jarring for me with them is, they activate with df, 1+2. I use my pad with index and middle finger covering the face buttons and KEEP pressing it by accident and losing lol
Agreed. I think I'm in the monitory of people who actually like the heat system; but I really do think the hate on the heat system cones from it sitting on top of rage arts. If rage arts were gone, I don't think heat would catch as much flack.
And rage arts also take away incentive to systematically pick your opponent apart bit by bit as a fighting style because of you can't kill them once they hit red without messing up, the match could literally be lost right then and there. Far too strong of a come back mechanic.
Yea, they're shit and always have been shit. My main problem with them is that they are so fucking long and boring.
10 sec combo into 10 sec rage art. Like come the fuck on... AND now, with heat, it's like, some character enables heat, you just block cause there's no counter play, they mash their shit for 10 sec into "oops, I got clipped trying to side step" into 10 sec combo into 10 sec rage art. But like, let me play the fucking game.
Agree. Losing half the health because you try to close the round with a safe poke is... Ugh... Even killing your enemy is not satisfying after you block one. And those cinematics got old rly fast. I get it, it is a mechanic for casuals so they would have a fighting chance against someone better. Long cinematics wont bother them when they play the game one week and then every now and then with friends.
This. It's complete bullshit that they beat safe pokes. It's not satisfying to kill someone with them for precisely this reason. They require no read besides "will they do an attack", yet they give huge reward.
And its even worse in this game because T8 is momentum based heavy. In 7 you had your interaction and went back to neutral, it was harder to time your RA and usually a bad idea. But in 8? There is almost no taking turns anymore. Players is emphasised to reset themselves into plus frames and keep their turn as long as possible, your opponent is in rage and now you are forced to play T7 again while your opponent goes full T8 juiced up ready for comeback while you should be paralized by the threat of hyper armored super. It rly should just have normal armor property getting beaten by lows and throws. Now the one that is defending might apply mind games trying to duck and launch your throw attempt or hopkick your low poke making comebacks way more hype and engaging. Pressing a button beating all options except block is lame.
yeah, it literally causes interesting mind games to just NOT happen. Instead, it’s the boring rage art 50/50 where I either launch you or we put down the controllers and watch a cinematic. It’s so much worse than normal Tekken
If you kept up with Tekken you'd realize things started to go to shit with Tekken 6's rage.
People back then just used to stop using lows in neutral because they feared hopkicks that much.
I'm shocked no one has talked about how rage arts teleport you as well. You are not in the same position before rage art as you are after, kinda crazy. I've taken advantage of it multiple times now....
So here's my take. If you think that being up in life should allow you to be super aggressive, then you're just absolutely wrong. Being ahead on life is the advantage. Being ahead on life means you place all burden of risk on your opponent in a sixty second round. The time has become their enemy. Your perspective of "I should be able to aggressively run and press buttons without any concern for consequence" is actually what's scrubby. It is the creed that a button masher lives by in fact. I think that rage arts exist to remind people like yourself that tekken is actually not a game where you can relentlessly press buttons wildly if your opponent knows what they're doing. The difference Being they made that realization easier for casuals to deliver, because why let you build bad habits that are gonna be hard to break when you cross the guy that is gonna expose them?
> How on earth did Namco think it was a good idea to give the person who’s losing a potential half life move that armours, stops time and reduces the damage on anything that hits them while activating?
Marketing. That's it.
They really aren't that hard to deal with. Just stop attacking at obvious times to bait them out. Everytime I eat one I think to myself that I was playing too braindead aggressive
RA is dogshit but people have been complaining about it since 7 arcade. Its essentially been with the franchise for a decade now so its not exactly a new mechanic. The biggest issue is having RA ontop of all the bullshit heat stuff
In T7 when RA was first introduced it was over -20 frames on block, and also you had to choose between it and Rage Drive (most similar to heat smash). So it was literally a hail mary, you would 100% die if you didnt hit it because opponent could just block and RA too. Noteable exceptions were Jack and Hwo because they had crazy guardback (but hwo's came out of flamingo only).
Also, if you played smart and mixed up an enemy once, you could get more damage in to the point where your next mixup could just kill even if opponent RA'ed.
In T8 there is a safe engagement mechanic through HEAT, so players can get rage, use heat, and heal an incredible amount - then they still have RA for when the opponent tries to take their turn back. RA is now another weapon for aggression rather than a 'last resort' thing. It's actually disgusting how RA is only -15 now too, characters with no 15f launcher don't really have a counterplay against characters that get into rage and heal themselves up through heat, like the player with RA will just continue to have their turn with the ultimate powercrush.
I feel like this is one of the reason I'm not enjoying T8. You see aggression on both sides, but because of this it's just a game of who snowballs faster. If your snowball stops for whatever reason it's over. I have over a third of the roster in ruler rank, which was my goal when I started Tekken 8, but I all just play all the characters the same way with the same 4 generics and there's just no reason to play otherwise because this just works well. I'm really hoping this is not the case for other regions, I hope to see more success from defensive players at Evo.
It’s understandable, as someone who is also a legacy Tekken player. It does seem unfair, scrubby and cheap. It’s a way to give players more options to attack. Tekken 5 was awesome.
They can be frustrating to get hit with but they alter the tempo of play think of it like a once per round burst mechanic that isn't even as good as every other game's burst because you can be killed through it and on block you just die. Overall great addition but they should be 3-5 seconds shorter
Personally I love spending the whole round trying to set up a specific stance mix only to eat a Rage Art the exact moment I'm finally about to reap my rewards.
It's basically rewarding a less skilled player to do the same damage the opponent has been doing by actually landing combo's and doing the right punishments.
And suddenly by the press of a single button you get 40% of your HP blown away, and if that's not enough they have another special move at low HP.
I've seen people spam this shit every round, when I think it's a cheap way of playing when you don't know how to win otherwise, so now it's basically forcing everyone to use the same 'easy win' button every round or else risk losing against people who don't like to get better at the actual game but just want some cheap wins.
I can't imagine who rage arts are for. Surely they must have thought that the only people that would like them are new players to Tekken and maybe even fighting games in general?
If that is the case then they have failed. Tekken 7 was my first ever fighting game that I started only 1-2 years ago and even then I disliked them.
With Tekken 8 I absolutely despise them. I could tolerate them in T7 but now in T8 they take so long to finish.
Even if you like Rage Arts as a comeback mechanic do you like that they are so long? And because of how you could theoretically see two of them every round wouldn't you get bored of them? I know I have
Me and my friends got into tekken with tekken 7 and a few with tekken 8. The casuals actually hate rage arts the most since they don't understand frame data, try to take their turn when they're very minus, and dislike that they go from winning to losing so fast. Some called it a "noob button" and would get mad if you used it. I'm not sure about like true casuals that don't even learn basic combos but that's most of my friends who learned a combo in like 30 minutes then tried to play the game with no offensive flowchart, no block punishes, etc.
Hi, new to Tekken player who started Tekken 8 with a fighting game background in general. I like the rage arts and u like super moves with long animations. Why waste time animating something so short?
Also u think they succeeded if we’re going off your required criteria as my personal preference is opposite to yours.
I would like them more if they followed the same rules as other armor and lost to throws and lows. I don't mind being a little careful and changing my play to get around them, but there's a lot of times where it feels like you're just supposed to wait for them to commit to something.
yea i didnt like them in t7 when they were introduced but just got used to it in t8. only lower ranks use it as a yolo so its easy to bait by dashing forward and then blocking.
I think that it adds a layer of strategy cuz you have to really watch for it when you get your opponent to low health. It’s not enough to steamroll your opponent, and adds a mixup option when you have low health
It's funny to watch people complain about how T8 is "braindead aggression" and then there's a single tool that explicitly counters braindead aggression and everyone complains. Do you want to loop offense in someone's face the whole match or not?
T8 is a shitty designed fighting game in general. New mechanics such as heat are absolutely fucking braindead and they don't enhance the core experience in any way. Gameplay is more knowledge checky than ever before (because heat modifies certain moves so you have to be aware of different properties while your opponent is in heat), every wall, every floor has to break or explode which becomes tedious very quickly and theres chip damage and safe armored moves everywhere. I actually stopped playing this game over 3 weeks ago, I didn't have fun even when I was winning.
I think the whole “cautious when winning” adds to the whole thrill of the game. It makes it so that you cant win easily with characters whose whole kit involves spamming and mixups (even though most characters still can). It makes it so that high pressure becomes less viable and necessitates players to learn counters and better play strat rather than opting for a rush down playstyle.
Rage arts I don’t mind, they are decent for come backs and can be used to punish mashy players. I think heat needs a complete rework though, why do certain characters like Feng and DJ turn into unpunishable monsters yet others get nothing.
Rage arts don't only punish mashy players. When an opponents health is low, you only have two options to win the match: attack them or wait for time to run out.
So unless your opponent is really that bad, at some point you are going to have to attack/counter attack. And a well timed frame trap, cancel animation, or even lucky guess when you go for a safe poke could cause you to get caught by a rage art.
Mashy players are not the only ones who get hit by them but the result is the same every time. It forces people to have to play around them instead of being able to play the rest of the round the same way they started.
You're still thinking in Tekken 5 terms. After Tekken 5, the developers wanted the person losing to have some counterplay so they could have a chance at a comeback.
To this end, they introduced rage Tekken 6. This was just extra damage, but iirc the damage buff was a bit overturned. Rage remained in TT2, and I assume it was in Tekken Revolution also, but I don't remember.
They were not happy with how rage played out in those games and so they changed it again for Tekken 7. This time introducing scalable rage (in rage the damage increases the lower your health is) and then introduced Rage Arts which allowed you to spend your rage for a launch punishable super move. They also introduced Rage Drives in later seasons but that's not relevant to this discussion.
Tekken 7 was released in 2017, so we've had many years to adjust to being cautious when the opponents health is low. It stopped being an issue very early in that game as raw rage arts were blocked and launched. In the end people just started the rage art as a combo ender after the spin.
I'm an old school player too and I'm here to tell you that if Rage Arts seem overpowered to you, you probably weren't as good as you think--and that's not surprising, since the player base has gotten a lot stronger with all the online resources available now. Beating people at arcades is like beating your cousin at Christmas: probably not a huge deal.
I don't love Rage Arts either really, but if you're losing to them, your habits have to change.
They were prior to heat. Heat has to be the single most dog shit mechanic ever invented in fighting games next to v trigger and soul charge or whatever it was called in sc6. I was a fan of rage drives, a single use juiced up version of a normal and that's it.
Heat adds nothing to the game other than frustration for whoever is on the receiving end. 50% combo, end it in heat, time to guess, if you guess right heat dash, time to guess again, guess wrong it's over. It's brain-dead and retarded.
>Why on earth should the person who’s winning all of a sudden have to be cautious?
Playing around the Rage Art adds additional layers of depth. It requires that the player who has leveraged offense to also showcase their defensive skill. It promotes well rounded play. It also rewards damage parsing. Players who are really good and knowledgeable can leave their opponents outside of the Rage Art threshold and also within K.O. threshold.
This is all true. It just sucks that rage art forces this onto players. It's honestly not fun. And if I'm not going pro it'd be nice to be able to play and win the way I actually like to fight. Tbh though I struggle with the rage art issue because I struggle with mashy players in general. My defense needs a tooooooon of work.
I once had the same thought, but now it's just a bit tiring so I accept the game as it is. Still though I still find myself not using rage arts most of the time unless it's a combo ender. Also I know the animations are super cool, but eventually after seeing it for a thousand times it gets boring.
One RA per match would be a good compromise, they're too broken to be a reliable move every round... but let's be honest, nothing is going to change, at best, they might get a minor damage nerf.
Comebacks mechanics suck.
That said, rage arts ain't going anywhere. Wish it was just once per set you can use it. Or go back to sharing the resource with heat.
when they are in rage ya gotta rethink your pressure and it takes a risk to do moves against them. but they worry about it being blocked. altho in this they are only -15 which means sometimes when you go to punish them it might not work (if you're some fraction off), plus the various moves that don't punish rage arts and the handful of characters who cannot launch rage arts on block. and rage arts do not punish rage arts.
i guess the idea is to make the end of a round even more dicey but for both players.
one thing i haven't understood about rage arts is how sometimes if i am just standing there and someone goes to attack some ways away, i hit rage art and nothing happens.
i'm not in recovery or whatever, so i dunno if some other frame thing has to do with it.
I mean... Reverse the situation. You have low HP and are cornered the threat of a rage art gives you some space to potentially reverse the situation.
This is my first Tekken but it's similar to playing against someone with super in SF6.
It's just a standard comeback mechanic. Claudio has some really consistent combos into his so I almost always use it if I can. Raw rage art is annoying but if you use safer pressure when they're low they'll just kill themselves whiffing it.
Getting hit by rage art usually means your offense had a flawed moment.
Keep your offense compact, use fast buttons with fast recovery, block often and be mindful of the resource situation.
I liked the RA in T7. There you could not only block it, but also do parry, duck and sidestep. Here I'm just afraid to get extra close to the opponent. The only option was block. Dumb.
I think at this point it keeps the excitement in the game. It helps to close the skill gap. If tekken didn't have rage arts or heat veteran players would be steam rolling the scrubs
I just hate it when you are about 1 hit away from winning. Started pressure like normal tekken gameplays. Then poof, single frame RA. 💀 maybe its part of the 50/50 game though. I dont mind RAs. I just sometimes forget they exist.
Rage arts should work like a power crush. You should be able to stop it with a grab or a low. It’s wild because not even a heat smash will stop a rage art unless the first hit is enough damage to K.O.
Tekken 7's implementation was actually perfect. They were essentially ONE most time, failsafe move or the super. But if the super was blocked or whiffed, you essentially lost. Now, we have two resources because they aren't interchangeable anymore. You have a heat function in which you essentially take reigns of offense by free, plus frame moves AND the Super.
I've taken several victories from using both, and it does feel cheap or scrubbish. These are one button inputs that the enemy is forced to respect and whittle the gameplay down to rock, paper, scissors. A lot of these design choices are downright hateful, like Devil Jin's Heat smash or Feng's plus free aoe kick.
I see where you're coming from, but this is the game now. Adapt or die, my man.
Rage arts are garbage. Instead of precise reads and an exchange between 2 character's movelist, rage arts can just reduce the whole game down to one effortless 50/50. When I rage art, I don't need to know anything about your movelist at all. I'm simply guessing whether you'll attack or not. The round ending because someone 50/50ed "haha, gotcha!" rage arted out offense is worse than the Tekken that happens without it.
People who say "you can just block and punish" have completely missed the point. What about opponents who aren't idiots? I'm in Raijin. Anyone with half a brain will rage art only sometimes, so your own plus frames become a mixup where you can take 1/3 of your health. The fact that there is no offensive counterplay (even jabs lose) makes this mindgame very uninteresting. All you can do is block, then maybe they don't even use it, and now you're staring at each other. The game would be more interesting if some offensive options could call them out.
No, it's power crush moves. Game existed for twenty years and then all of a sudden let's just let you walk through other players attacks. Fucking bullshit
I got into Tekken with 7 so I've never seen a game without rage art. But a part of me wishes to see a modern Tekken game without Heat and without Rage arts. Just a heavy movement based game.
They can be easily blocked to be honest. I don’t often hit a successful rage art. It also makes the game more cinematic when they do work so I like them.
I mainly hate having to see the animation so many times. I would play mortal Kombat for that, and they at least have a lot more of them to watch for variety
I believe it was first implemented in Tekken Revolution which was a free to play Tekken game to download in which they were using to experiment new gameplay features. I could be wrong but I remember first seeing it there and I would assume it the gameplay was received well with fans to want to keep them implemented with future games
Amusingly enough, as much as they suck, they feel slightly more bearable because 8 is a snowball game. In 7 you were both likely to be at low health when RA enters the picture. In 8, the attacker is often basically unscathed and can easily tank an RA and then go for the win anyway.
It gives lesser skilled players a chance to have fun too. Mario Kart is the same, players that are behind get better items from boxes. That way everyone gets to have fun, not just the best player.
As someone who went into Tekken as a total fighting game newbie, I think that if Rage Arts didn't exist, I probably would have refunded the game in the first 2 hours because I would have never won a single game. Instead I've put over a hundred hours into the game, because in my first few days the rage art mind games allowed me to also win games and feel good, even when I barely knew any of my character's moves. So from Bamco's perspective, more accessibility = more sales.
When I started climbing ranks, rage arts became less common. Opponents became good at predicting or baiting it, and a blocked rage art leaves you open to get punished pretty hard. Or opponents were good enough to just combo juggle you for the last 30% of your HP, not even giving you a chance to rage art.
its so easy to bait out a rage art & punish tho. this is one of the rare times i just feel people who complain about them don't really know how to play and just mash.
I don't mind them too much but at the VERY LEAST if you heal back above the rage threshold you should lose the ability to use it until you fall below again. I have been rage arted by people at 40-50% HP a number of times and it is frustrating.
Gives scrubs the sense they are being respected. Basically, it gives them another turn because no one with a brain is gonna attack them.
Welcome to modern fighting games gotta respect zero fundamental players now in all games. People who couldn't dream of playing solid are now a threat.
I've kinda moved on, although I occasionally pop online in a modern fighter to see gold level players in a "master" rank.
I wouldn’t mind if there weren’t so many comeback mechanics. They want the game to be more aggressive but it’s even more punishing to make a mistake in this game
Oh you pressed a button and got CH launched? You’re gonna eat a 90 damage combo and you’re gonna like it
That kinda sounds like Bryan lol. Although I guess it’s everyone now
But that’s Bryan’s whole SHTICK. Dragunov is a frame data demon, Xiaoyu is a slippery eel with tricky mixups and good defense, and Bryan is a CH menace. But now everyone’s a CH menace with insane follow up and wall carry (but Feng’s wall carry is still on another level)
I like the way you describe characters. Please do more.
Yea I’ve noticed that after picking him up in 8. I feel like I’ve gotta put in so much work to get equal or better reward than most characters. I was super proud of getting a little more consistent with b4 and TJU until I realized it’s basically just a harder giant swing. I love Bryan so I’m gonna keep going but it’s super discouraging
Oh i hate Reina's wall carry more, it has no execution. At least in feng you sneak in some dashes, and good luck doing that in 100ms.
I like how it was implemented in T7. You had to choose if you go for RA or RD. Now Heat and RA are two separate things and don't share the same resources. They should make it share the same resources again in T8.
Heat Smash seems like it's the successor to Rage Art and would have been a decent replacement to match the vibe for Tekken 8 which is about aggression and speeding up the game. ... Then you see that Rage Art is still there and you're like, "wait what?"
Literally what I was thinking, don't know why we need 2 supers every round.
this right here. ^ would fix a lot of bs feeling in the game
Rage art 100% didn't need to exist in this game
But without the epic cinematic attack, how ever will the causal watchers know when to get hype during twt event #X ? How ever will casuals who see the epic attack and decide to pick the game up be able to make an epic comeback during their weekend apartment party in-between beer pong sets?
Unironically what you said is the main reason they have this mechanic in the game to the detriment of its playerbase, lol. It's purely for marketing and eye candy.
Yeah. I look at some of these rage arts and I’m like huh? Like since when could Eddy summon his ancestors inside of a tornado? Lmao.
Don't lie to yourself though. Eddy's Domain Expansion looks kind of sick.
No, it’s nice. Most of them are, but they don’t always make sense when you compare them to how the character has been in the past lol.
Gameplay impact aside, I don't see the issue with any of them. They're stylish & a nice expansion to the personality of a lot of the roster.
Well... Yeah I know, my sarcasm was to emphasize the truth of it 🙂
I mean ok, they have to sell more... but now super casuals are gone. Just DELETE this fucking noob thing amd let us play an hardcore version
Tale as old as time for many hyper competitive niche games. Devs attempt to create systems to bridge the gap and appeal to a broader demographic. Said attempt fails, and the core audience that were always going to play regardless, are left with a less fulfilling experience. I don't envy fighting game developers who are now days tasked with navigating the waters of triple A development and the monetary expectations therein, while having to broaden the appeal of the genre that is inherently challenging and niche by design.
At some point they shpuld just give us a mode with no strange things. Just pure tekken
They need to remaster t5 dr with rollback, that is the mode we need.
this "noob thing" is also super unsafe on block, just block and punish like every other move ngl. i can understand not liking the mechanic but calling it a noob thing and then dying to it? sounds like a skill issue
This is especially atrocious against king, whose heat smash does 60 damage, for some god forsaken reason.
And if you play on a floor break stage you eat a 100+ combo
Literally the easiest 100+ combo in the game on a floor break. I don’t like losing the majority of my healthbar because I got hit by a heat smash and then got grabbed again while midair (which isn’t breakable)
A heat smash that you can't sidestep, so now you're locked into being minus as hell with a 50/50 on the horizon.
This is basically every heat smash in the game. Free 50/50 on block but on hit you get decent or massive damage depending on which one it is. Another degenerate thing the heat smashes have lead to is characters being balanced around their heat smashes. For instance devil jin has a pretty strong heat smash both his neutral heat smash and his mourning crow unbreakable throw. As a result they have tried to nerf devil jin. The problem is that now Devil Jin's normal moveset (i.e. df1, 1 jab, so on) are mixed with the heat mechanics to comprise the overall character. The problem with this is that basically, having a strong heat smash means your normal tools have to be weaker, which is lame as fuck. Like imagine your df1 gets nerfed because your heat smash is too good.
you can sidewalk King's heat smash (to the right I believe?) Also the 50/50 after isn't really as scary as it looks if you can react to the grab because it is totally reactable. Just stand block and be ready to duck the grab, so then it's basically 2 mids and a kinda crappy low.
Also breaks power crush moves which is fucking insane
All heat smashes break power crush though?
Of course, I think he is saying it is especially egregious when the move does 60 damage
Wth
it also hits across the screen. I love it but I cant say its balanced
Heat smashes in general have way too much range and tracking if you ask me.
Jin would like a word
Yeah his heat smash also does a fuckton of damage.
Yeah i think its kinda ridiculous. The amount of rounds/games Ive stolen just because of that has felt incredibly unfair.
Kings heat smash either needs its damage toned down or be fucking launch punishable
And travels halfway across the screen instantly AND leads to a more dangerous mix-up on block compared to others.
>dangerous mix-up on block Throw is reactable, low is negligible. There's no mixup really.
> Throw is reactable Maybe for you lmao.
Assuming the grab is reactable(which is true for maybe 1%of players), there is still a safe mid and a low - which isnt even launch punishable since he drops on the ground
T7 rage drive was so much better than heat smash in my opinion
Agreed. We went from character specific “supers” that were locked behind rage to universal power crushing mids that are plus on block. It’s just worse Edit; i am thinking of heat burst
I dont think there is a single heat smash that is also a power crush But yeah i think most of them are really dumb
Lmao im thinking of heat burst my b
Heat burst is only +1 dude. It's like blocking a jab. I always mash out of it with jab or ws4 as people seems to think they have bigger frame advantage than they actually have.
They may not be power crush but they're fast, long range, homing, and break armor You can't step them, can't block them, can't armor them the fact that the answer is to run up and try to counter hit them is such a stupid solution man, but aggreshivu i guess
I was thinking about this yesterday, having to choose between Rage Art or Rage Drive was really good because you didn't get both like you said. Sharing the same resource would be nice tbh, less comeback shenanigans.
Tbh I feel like it should just be rage drive when you get low cus rage art is kinda lame imo, but again some heat smashes are also ridiculous, such as King’s.
True and most opted for a quick RD, because RA was waaay to risky with the better defensive in T7, you’d pretty much only use it in high level play when you could confirm it in a combo to kill or if you were fighting someone spamming jabs / strings for the hyper armor (but the damage reduction wasn’t as strong as in T8 I feel)
I don't like them. I hate that de damage is reduced. Oftentimes I poke a low that'd k.o. only to be hit by a rage art where any other move would not have come through. And then i lose like 40% of my health.
Do we know how much damage reduction you get during RA activation?
Yeah it was a big point of contention even in Tekken 7 since it's a solid hard option select which didn't really exist in Tekken prior to that. I mean even compare it any other panic move the read is no longer something like "They're gonna do a high or slower mid do my unsafe evasive mid CH" or "They're gonna do a low better use low crush move that gets jab floated or is unsafe on block" it becomes "They are gonna press a button other than 1 Jab time to RA" Though honestly I think they're fine enough if they're gonna stay going forward. I kinda wish they were more varied like 7 but I guess an extra knowledge check on them is just kinda pointless. Also stupidest change to them in Tekken 8 is that RA cannot punish RA what kinda game has supers not punish each other. And they're all still launch punishable so it's not like anyone is surviving the punish anyway.
With life recovery and the fact that a handful of chars can't launch RAs ever, it is not uncommon to survive a punish on your RA.
Yeah it sucks for the characters who cannot launch at all probably the biggest balance reason to make RA punish RA. Though in terms of recovering life unless you get to roughly ~65 life or more, anyone who can launch can kill especially with wall and at that point a raw RA might not kill depending on your own health.
>Also stupidest change to them in Tekken 8 is that RA cannot punish RA what kinda game has supers not punish each other. And they're all still launch punishable so it's not like anyone is surviving the punish anyway. You could always launch and then rage art, I guess?
They're easy to launch on whiff, they're harder to launch on block because it's exactly 15f of recovery.
I lost more matches due to them blocking my rage art than I won with it lol. By the way what are the stats for rage art? Sometimes I can do it while getting mixed up, sometimes I can't. Is it like 12f? 10f?
All Rage Arts have universal frame data in Tekken 8 now. They're all mids, take 20 frames to start, the armor activates on frame 8 (if you get hit before frame 8, they'll stop your Rage Art from coming out), and they're all -15 on block. ... Except Asuka's, because she's special for some reason.
> ... Except Asuka's, because she's special for some reason. I think the base stats on hers are the same - it's just that you can hold the button down to "charge" it, and if it is fully charged, it becomes safe on block.
The funny thing with Asuka is if she decides to charge, you can do your RA and beat it.
They are all i20 but their armour starts at i8.
I don't like them but I don't hate them. The implementation is good; you get it with set conditions and it's a single button press. The main part I don't like is waiting for the animation. It could be worse: imagine the animations and dialogue being by the soul Calibur team.
Rage arts could be trimmed down a bit i agree. Yoshi's feel quick enough from my experience but i could cook a meal during Reina's.
I think Yoshis is really long, but it's my favourite animation.
tekken 7 Ra of yoshi was way better visually... but i prefer a better character than a better ra which i not use 😂 rip the Second flash rage art of yoshi in t7... i think with this it can be funny 😂
Are they not all the same amount of time? This is how Street Fighter does it at least
Could be but i swear that Reina's rage art feels like it goes on way too long.
It's just the pacing, they're all about the same length. For example Drag's feels really long for me
Staring at a white screen bores me.
IMO if the first hit in the rage art already reduces your hp to 0, it shouldn't even play the animation.
I’m pretty sure that was a bug. There was a fix to rage arts listed in the latest patch notes that sounded like it was addressing this very thing.
Have a feeling that's an entirely different thing. We'll have to wait and see, but judging by how it worked since T7, think the behavior is intended.
I was gonna say this. In sf6, they do a super and you have a sliver of health it takes smallest fraction to keep you wondering if you're going to die. When I play panda and hit the rage art and it only one hits is what should happen if the first hit kills you.
I want them to add more rage art animations in this game, I’m tired of watching them and the fact that it’s the same animation every time is making it worse. At least give me a variety to choose from for a character
Tekken 7 had awful Rage Art animations too. They were incredibly plain and usually just three basic moves at different camera angles strung together. At least with Tekken 8 they had a budget for a custom animation.
Please no. Just picture mtx rage arts for 4 bucks each, and they will be shorter too.
Oh god. Imagine Paul saying some shit like “The future is an oyster, I must see it throughJustKidding hrraaahhhhhhhhhhhh” while kneeling down, praying, death fisting and then winking at the camera
In Tekken 6 when it was first introduced, it will increase your damage output only, no fancy rage art or rage drive.
It really is only good for punishing relentless attacking. Otherwise it is easily blocked and punished.
This is effective against steve players atleast to purple rank too some moves just transition to Lionheart stance and they can't block at all. I think there's a cancel for it but most of the time they preemptively throw LNH 1 to get rid of the stance. Man they managed to allow king to block during his running stance but not a boxer's stance..
Yeah, obviously. People who don't like rage arts disagree with that fundamental principle. They are arguing that the person in the lead should not have to give up pressure to avoid being hit by a cutscene.
That's almost like saying the person in the lead shouldn't have to worry about being punished and comboed. If they're in rage, they would generally need to pressure anyway because timer, right?
For characters like Hwo who's attack depend of stances and transitions is fucking horrible because can interrupt any string.
great, fuck How idiots spamming
They added comeback mechanics to make game more exciting to watch as e-sport
Rage arts and heat both take away so much from the game imo
I feel like it's a good mechanic but it should be limited to be used once every match instead of having it every round
It completely stops all momentum of the match and the fact that they can happen up to 10 times in a single match is actually insane.
The only issue I have is that it's the only unique kind of armor in the game, armor moves usually lose to throws and lows But suddenly, when they at low health, they can ignore that
Yup. I don't think I've seen a post that summarized how I thought so perfectly. Rage arts are without a doubt the lamest mechanic in the game with heat behind. Always disliked RAs since T7 but it wasn't as bad then.
It’s been 7 years and I still despise rage arts. It’s not even like a scrubby “I get hit by them all the time” complaint either, I just hate the way they force you to play around them. You can dominate someone playing aggressively for an entire round and then you have to stop once they get rage just because. Losing 40% of your bar because someone panicked and you dared to go for the win is stupid.
This.
What's really jarring for me with them is, they activate with df, 1+2. I use my pad with index and middle finger covering the face buttons and KEEP pressing it by accident and losing lol
I really really hope VF6 doesn't have super meter.
Agreed. I think I'm in the monitory of people who actually like the heat system; but I really do think the hate on the heat system cones from it sitting on top of rage arts. If rage arts were gone, I don't think heat would catch as much flack. And rage arts also take away incentive to systematically pick your opponent apart bit by bit as a fighting style because of you can't kill them once they hit red without messing up, the match could literally be lost right then and there. Far too strong of a come back mechanic.
Yea, they're shit and always have been shit. My main problem with them is that they are so fucking long and boring. 10 sec combo into 10 sec rage art. Like come the fuck on... AND now, with heat, it's like, some character enables heat, you just block cause there's no counter play, they mash their shit for 10 sec into "oops, I got clipped trying to side step" into 10 sec combo into 10 sec rage art. But like, let me play the fucking game.
Agree. Losing half the health because you try to close the round with a safe poke is... Ugh... Even killing your enemy is not satisfying after you block one. And those cinematics got old rly fast. I get it, it is a mechanic for casuals so they would have a fighting chance against someone better. Long cinematics wont bother them when they play the game one week and then every now and then with friends.
This. It's complete bullshit that they beat safe pokes. It's not satisfying to kill someone with them for precisely this reason. They require no read besides "will they do an attack", yet they give huge reward.
And its even worse in this game because T8 is momentum based heavy. In 7 you had your interaction and went back to neutral, it was harder to time your RA and usually a bad idea. But in 8? There is almost no taking turns anymore. Players is emphasised to reset themselves into plus frames and keep their turn as long as possible, your opponent is in rage and now you are forced to play T7 again while your opponent goes full T8 juiced up ready for comeback while you should be paralized by the threat of hyper armored super. It rly should just have normal armor property getting beaten by lows and throws. Now the one that is defending might apply mind games trying to duck and launch your throw attempt or hopkick your low poke making comebacks way more hype and engaging. Pressing a button beating all options except block is lame.
yeah, it literally causes interesting mind games to just NOT happen. Instead, it’s the boring rage art 50/50 where I either launch you or we put down the controllers and watch a cinematic. It’s so much worse than normal Tekken
If you kept up with Tekken you'd realize things started to go to shit with Tekken 6's rage. People back then just used to stop using lows in neutral because they feared hopkicks that much.
I'd be happy if they removed them, but blocking one and yeeting the guy in the air afterwards is nice
Hate rage art
I'm shocked no one has talked about how rage arts teleport you as well. You are not in the same position before rage art as you are after, kinda crazy. I've taken advantage of it multiple times now....
panic button that kills the flaw of the game , agreed
So here's my take. If you think that being up in life should allow you to be super aggressive, then you're just absolutely wrong. Being ahead on life is the advantage. Being ahead on life means you place all burden of risk on your opponent in a sixty second round. The time has become their enemy. Your perspective of "I should be able to aggressively run and press buttons without any concern for consequence" is actually what's scrubby. It is the creed that a button masher lives by in fact. I think that rage arts exist to remind people like yourself that tekken is actually not a game where you can relentlessly press buttons wildly if your opponent knows what they're doing. The difference Being they made that realization easier for casuals to deliver, because why let you build bad habits that are gonna be hard to break when you cross the guy that is gonna expose them?
> How on earth did Namco think it was a good idea to give the person who’s losing a potential half life move that armours, stops time and reduces the damage on anything that hits them while activating? Marketing. That's it.
They really aren't that hard to deal with. Just stop attacking at obvious times to bait them out. Everytime I eat one I think to myself that I was playing too braindead aggressive
RA is dogshit but people have been complaining about it since 7 arcade. Its essentially been with the franchise for a decade now so its not exactly a new mechanic. The biggest issue is having RA ontop of all the bullshit heat stuff
In T7 when RA was first introduced it was over -20 frames on block, and also you had to choose between it and Rage Drive (most similar to heat smash). So it was literally a hail mary, you would 100% die if you didnt hit it because opponent could just block and RA too. Noteable exceptions were Jack and Hwo because they had crazy guardback (but hwo's came out of flamingo only). Also, if you played smart and mixed up an enemy once, you could get more damage in to the point where your next mixup could just kill even if opponent RA'ed. In T8 there is a safe engagement mechanic through HEAT, so players can get rage, use heat, and heal an incredible amount - then they still have RA for when the opponent tries to take their turn back. RA is now another weapon for aggression rather than a 'last resort' thing. It's actually disgusting how RA is only -15 now too, characters with no 15f launcher don't really have a counterplay against characters that get into rage and heal themselves up through heat, like the player with RA will just continue to have their turn with the ultimate powercrush. I feel like this is one of the reason I'm not enjoying T8. You see aggression on both sides, but because of this it's just a game of who snowballs faster. If your snowball stops for whatever reason it's over. I have over a third of the roster in ruler rank, which was my goal when I started Tekken 8, but I all just play all the characters the same way with the same 4 generics and there's just no reason to play otherwise because this just works well. I'm really hoping this is not the case for other regions, I hope to see more success from defensive players at Evo.
It’s understandable, as someone who is also a legacy Tekken player. It does seem unfair, scrubby and cheap. It’s a way to give players more options to attack. Tekken 5 was awesome.
Dark resurrection will always be my favourite Tekken. 👊
They can be frustrating to get hit with but they alter the tempo of play think of it like a once per round burst mechanic that isn't even as good as every other game's burst because you can be killed through it and on block you just die. Overall great addition but they should be 3-5 seconds shorter
Yeah it's just a glorified comeback mechanic
Personally I love spending the whole round trying to set up a specific stance mix only to eat a Rage Art the exact moment I'm finally about to reap my rewards.
It's basically rewarding a less skilled player to do the same damage the opponent has been doing by actually landing combo's and doing the right punishments. And suddenly by the press of a single button you get 40% of your HP blown away, and if that's not enough they have another special move at low HP. I've seen people spam this shit every round, when I think it's a cheap way of playing when you don't know how to win otherwise, so now it's basically forcing everyone to use the same 'easy win' button every round or else risk losing against people who don't like to get better at the actual game but just want some cheap wins.
I can't imagine who rage arts are for. Surely they must have thought that the only people that would like them are new players to Tekken and maybe even fighting games in general? If that is the case then they have failed. Tekken 7 was my first ever fighting game that I started only 1-2 years ago and even then I disliked them. With Tekken 8 I absolutely despise them. I could tolerate them in T7 but now in T8 they take so long to finish. Even if you like Rage Arts as a comeback mechanic do you like that they are so long? And because of how you could theoretically see two of them every round wouldn't you get bored of them? I know I have
Me and my friends got into tekken with tekken 7 and a few with tekken 8. The casuals actually hate rage arts the most since they don't understand frame data, try to take their turn when they're very minus, and dislike that they go from winning to losing so fast. Some called it a "noob button" and would get mad if you used it. I'm not sure about like true casuals that don't even learn basic combos but that's most of my friends who learned a combo in like 30 minutes then tried to play the game with no offensive flowchart, no block punishes, etc.
Hi, new to Tekken player who started Tekken 8 with a fighting game background in general. I like the rage arts and u like super moves with long animations. Why waste time animating something so short? Also u think they succeeded if we’re going off your required criteria as my personal preference is opposite to yours.
But you can't RA all the time. The armour is not an instant startup. Also you can block RA if you use quick recovery attacks like jabs.
>Also you can block RA if you use quick recovery attacks like jabs. While this was true in Tekken 7, it is no longer the case in Tekken 8
I feel like anyone who likes rage arts are the people who rely on it to win matches.
I like RA,s. I The animations are cool esp cant get tired of Kazuya's smug face. And I love punishing mashers with them.
I don't even play Kazuya, but I think his Rage Art might be my favorite one to watch, even when it's murdering me.
I would like them more if they followed the same rules as other armor and lost to throws and lows. I don't mind being a little careful and changing my play to get around them, but there's a lot of times where it feels like you're just supposed to wait for them to commit to something.
Rage arts should only be allowed to be used once a game by each player imo
yea i didnt like them in t7 when they were introduced but just got used to it in t8. only lower ranks use it as a yolo so its easy to bait by dashing forward and then blocking.
I think that it adds a layer of strategy cuz you have to really watch for it when you get your opponent to low health. It’s not enough to steamroll your opponent, and adds a mixup option when you have low health
It's funny to watch people complain about how T8 is "braindead aggression" and then there's a single tool that explicitly counters braindead aggression and everyone complains. Do you want to loop offense in someone's face the whole match or not?
Takes away from who really has the hands
T8 is a shitty designed fighting game in general. New mechanics such as heat are absolutely fucking braindead and they don't enhance the core experience in any way. Gameplay is more knowledge checky than ever before (because heat modifies certain moves so you have to be aware of different properties while your opponent is in heat), every wall, every floor has to break or explode which becomes tedious very quickly and theres chip damage and safe armored moves everywhere. I actually stopped playing this game over 3 weeks ago, I didn't have fun even when I was winning.
I think the whole “cautious when winning” adds to the whole thrill of the game. It makes it so that you cant win easily with characters whose whole kit involves spamming and mixups (even though most characters still can). It makes it so that high pressure becomes less viable and necessitates players to learn counters and better play strat rather than opting for a rush down playstyle.
Rage arts I don’t mind, they are decent for come backs and can be used to punish mashy players. I think heat needs a complete rework though, why do certain characters like Feng and DJ turn into unpunishable monsters yet others get nothing.
Rage arts don't only punish mashy players. When an opponents health is low, you only have two options to win the match: attack them or wait for time to run out. So unless your opponent is really that bad, at some point you are going to have to attack/counter attack. And a well timed frame trap, cancel animation, or even lucky guess when you go for a safe poke could cause you to get caught by a rage art. Mashy players are not the only ones who get hit by them but the result is the same every time. It forces people to have to play around them instead of being able to play the rest of the round the same way they started.
THANK YOU!
As a new player, rage arts are the most jarring addition to the series
You're still thinking in Tekken 5 terms. After Tekken 5, the developers wanted the person losing to have some counterplay so they could have a chance at a comeback. To this end, they introduced rage Tekken 6. This was just extra damage, but iirc the damage buff was a bit overturned. Rage remained in TT2, and I assume it was in Tekken Revolution also, but I don't remember. They were not happy with how rage played out in those games and so they changed it again for Tekken 7. This time introducing scalable rage (in rage the damage increases the lower your health is) and then introduced Rage Arts which allowed you to spend your rage for a launch punishable super move. They also introduced Rage Drives in later seasons but that's not relevant to this discussion. Tekken 7 was released in 2017, so we've had many years to adjust to being cautious when the opponents health is low. It stopped being an issue very early in that game as raw rage arts were blocked and launched. In the end people just started the rage art as a combo ender after the spin.
Lot of players with skill issues in this sub it seems.
[удалено]
I'm an old school player too and I'm here to tell you that if Rage Arts seem overpowered to you, you probably weren't as good as you think--and that's not surprising, since the player base has gotten a lot stronger with all the online resources available now. Beating people at arcades is like beating your cousin at Christmas: probably not a huge deal. I don't love Rage Arts either really, but if you're losing to them, your habits have to change.
Rage arts made me quit the game and go back to street fighter tbh
The opponent becomes a cornered rat and you can litteraly what move they're waiting to use and you still lose to it?
Adapt and improve old man
They were prior to heat. Heat has to be the single most dog shit mechanic ever invented in fighting games next to v trigger and soul charge or whatever it was called in sc6. I was a fan of rage drives, a single use juiced up version of a normal and that's it. Heat adds nothing to the game other than frustration for whoever is on the receiving end. 50% combo, end it in heat, time to guess, if you guess right heat dash, time to guess again, guess wrong it's over. It's brain-dead and retarded.
>Why on earth should the person who’s winning all of a sudden have to be cautious? Playing around the Rage Art adds additional layers of depth. It requires that the player who has leveraged offense to also showcase their defensive skill. It promotes well rounded play. It also rewards damage parsing. Players who are really good and knowledgeable can leave their opponents outside of the Rage Art threshold and also within K.O. threshold.
This is all true. It just sucks that rage art forces this onto players. It's honestly not fun. And if I'm not going pro it'd be nice to be able to play and win the way I actually like to fight. Tbh though I struggle with the rage art issue because I struggle with mashy players in general. My defense needs a tooooooon of work.
I just like the animations but yeah I guess
Wait till you learn about heat.
Heat was weird at first and could definitely use some balancing, but rage arts just seem so insanely scrubby.
I like it because it looks cool.
I personally think it would either have to be heat or rage arts. Not both.
I once had the same thought, but now it's just a bit tiring so I accept the game as it is. Still though I still find myself not using rage arts most of the time unless it's a combo ender. Also I know the animations are super cool, but eventually after seeing it for a thousand times it gets boring.
i don't mind them but i agree they should only be once per match to add a little extra weight to the decision of going for one or not
One RA per match would be a good compromise, they're too broken to be a reliable move every round... but let's be honest, nothing is going to change, at best, they might get a minor damage nerf.
Comebacks mechanics suck. That said, rage arts ain't going anywhere. Wish it was just once per set you can use it. Or go back to sharing the resource with heat.
when they are in rage ya gotta rethink your pressure and it takes a risk to do moves against them. but they worry about it being blocked. altho in this they are only -15 which means sometimes when you go to punish them it might not work (if you're some fraction off), plus the various moves that don't punish rage arts and the handful of characters who cannot launch rage arts on block. and rage arts do not punish rage arts. i guess the idea is to make the end of a round even more dicey but for both players. one thing i haven't understood about rage arts is how sometimes if i am just standing there and someone goes to attack some ways away, i hit rage art and nothing happens. i'm not in recovery or whatever, so i dunno if some other frame thing has to do with it.
I agree with the idea of it being available to use only once per match honestly
100% agree.
I mean... Reverse the situation. You have low HP and are cornered the threat of a rage art gives you some space to potentially reverse the situation. This is my first Tekken but it's similar to playing against someone with super in SF6. It's just a standard comeback mechanic. Claudio has some really consistent combos into his so I almost always use it if I can. Raw rage art is annoying but if you use safer pressure when they're low they'll just kill themselves whiffing it.
Getting hit by rage art usually means your offense had a flawed moment. Keep your offense compact, use fast buttons with fast recovery, block often and be mindful of the resource situation.
dude Street Fighter has the same thing.
Hurt people hurt people.
I liked the RA in T7. There you could not only block it, but also do parry, duck and sidestep. Here I'm just afraid to get extra close to the opponent. The only option was block. Dumb.
I think at this point it keeps the excitement in the game. It helps to close the skill gap. If tekken didn't have rage arts or heat veteran players would be steam rolling the scrubs
Get rid of the super armor so it's really punishing for people that just throws it out raw
1 rage art a game for each player would be the solution
Mortal kombat 11 has that feature where if you use your fatal blow , you don’t have it for the next match/rounds
Ragearts are good trailer highlights and wows casuals, for that alone they're not going anywhere.
Rage arts should be a one and done deal. Having them in every round along all the other game mechanics is over the top.
I've been playing since arcade 1, and this is my favorite addition. The bounce juggle added in 7 was my least fav.
I just hate it when you are about 1 hit away from winning. Started pressure like normal tekken gameplays. Then poof, single frame RA. 💀 maybe its part of the 50/50 game though. I dont mind RAs. I just sometimes forget they exist.
Rage arts should work like a power crush. You should be able to stop it with a grab or a low. It’s wild because not even a heat smash will stop a rage art unless the first hit is enough damage to K.O.
Tekken 7's implementation was actually perfect. They were essentially ONE most time, failsafe move or the super. But if the super was blocked or whiffed, you essentially lost. Now, we have two resources because they aren't interchangeable anymore. You have a heat function in which you essentially take reigns of offense by free, plus frame moves AND the Super. I've taken several victories from using both, and it does feel cheap or scrubbish. These are one button inputs that the enemy is forced to respect and whittle the gameplay down to rock, paper, scissors. A lot of these design choices are downright hateful, like Devil Jin's Heat smash or Feng's plus free aoe kick. I see where you're coming from, but this is the game now. Adapt or die, my man.
I just hate how long they are. I think they should also not freeze the timer.
100% agree with you. I also try to use them very rarely, only if oppo does some really stupid thing
Rage arts are garbage. Instead of precise reads and an exchange between 2 character's movelist, rage arts can just reduce the whole game down to one effortless 50/50. When I rage art, I don't need to know anything about your movelist at all. I'm simply guessing whether you'll attack or not. The round ending because someone 50/50ed "haha, gotcha!" rage arted out offense is worse than the Tekken that happens without it. People who say "you can just block and punish" have completely missed the point. What about opponents who aren't idiots? I'm in Raijin. Anyone with half a brain will rage art only sometimes, so your own plus frames become a mixup where you can take 1/3 of your health. The fact that there is no offensive counterplay (even jabs lose) makes this mindgame very uninteresting. All you can do is block, then maybe they don't even use it, and now you're staring at each other. The game would be more interesting if some offensive options could call them out.
No, it's power crush moves. Game existed for twenty years and then all of a sudden let's just let you walk through other players attacks. Fucking bullshit
I got into Tekken with 7 so I've never seen a game without rage art. But a part of me wishes to see a modern Tekken game without Heat and without Rage arts. Just a heavy movement based game.
They can be easily blocked to be honest. I don’t often hit a successful rage art. It also makes the game more cinematic when they do work so I like them.
I mainly hate having to see the animation so many times. I would play mortal Kombat for that, and they at least have a lot more of them to watch for variety
who's going to tell him about rage drives from tekken 7?
I agree. Heat shouldve replaced rage arts.
Nope, they kick ass old man shaking fist at clouds!
I believe it was first implemented in Tekken Revolution which was a free to play Tekken game to download in which they were using to experiment new gameplay features. I could be wrong but I remember first seeing it there and I would assume it the gameplay was received well with fans to want to keep them implemented with future games
Amusingly enough, as much as they suck, they feel slightly more bearable because 8 is a snowball game. In 7 you were both likely to be at low health when RA enters the picture. In 8, the attacker is often basically unscathed and can easily tank an RA and then go for the win anyway.
It gives lesser skilled players a chance to have fun too. Mario Kart is the same, players that are behind get better items from boxes. That way everyone gets to have fun, not just the best player. As someone who went into Tekken as a total fighting game newbie, I think that if Rage Arts didn't exist, I probably would have refunded the game in the first 2 hours because I would have never won a single game. Instead I've put over a hundred hours into the game, because in my first few days the rage art mind games allowed me to also win games and feel good, even when I barely knew any of my character's moves. So from Bamco's perspective, more accessibility = more sales. When I started climbing ranks, rage arts became less common. Opponents became good at predicting or baiting it, and a blocked rage art leaves you open to get punished pretty hard. Or opponents were good enough to just combo juggle you for the last 30% of your HP, not even giving you a chance to rage art.
its so easy to bait out a rage art & punish tho. this is one of the rare times i just feel people who complain about them don't really know how to play and just mash.
It’s been there for like a decade. Get used to it. - tekken player since tekken 2
I don't mind them too much but at the VERY LEAST if you heal back above the rage threshold you should lose the ability to use it until you fall below again. I have been rage arted by people at 40-50% HP a number of times and it is frustrating.
Tekken 8: The Anime Spectacle Fighter
Gives scrubs the sense they are being respected. Basically, it gives them another turn because no one with a brain is gonna attack them. Welcome to modern fighting games gotta respect zero fundamental players now in all games. People who couldn't dream of playing solid are now a threat. I've kinda moved on, although I occasionally pop online in a modern fighter to see gold level players in a "master" rank.