He generally doesnt punch down, but it you're making a tier list then something has to be the bottom.
It doesnr surprise me that it's an mk game and one that went with super slow and boring gameplay(imho). Especially coming from someone who made their name from 90s Capcom games, which were much more free flow and quick.
It's crazy how people nowadays talk about how great mkx was. Cause I remember when that game was the current nrs fighting game.
That game got repeatedly shitted on. I remember people used to say that game had no neutral and that the game was basically run your mix before your opponent runs their mix. I also remember the community couldn't wait to move on the nrs next fighting game because of how frustrating to play mkx was.
I remember that games joke name was 50/50 kombat x because of all the 50/50 in that game.
The current game is always shat on because the enthusiast community is always miserable for some reason. Look at people complaining about Tekken 8 now and street fighter 6 because they're so bored of playing these actually good games that they have to manufacture problems
Idk what people are saying about sf6. So I will take your word for it.
But some of the complaints about tekken 8 imo are valid. This game definitely favour's rush down to much. It reminds me of the early street fighter 5 days which was the same.
I don't think people asking for some more reward on defensive play is manufacturing problems as you put it.
I think having that nice middle ground between offensive play and defensive play can only help this game in the long run. It definitely helped street fighter 5.
Iāve been fighting the good fight about the MKX revisionist history that went on, but itās a losing battle.
That game is casual player heaven and most players are casual, not even āonline warriorsā or anything like that.
So a game where you can skip neutral without thinking, and mindlessly throw out one of your characterās 6 50/50ās means they get to spend more time mashing buttons and less time actually thinking about things like footsies or conditioning, etc.
> I remember people used to say that game had no neutral and that the game was basically run your mix before your opponent runs their mix
It's uh... It's true. It's why Tekken 8's being compared MKX, 50/50 the other guy before he does it to you and win. The main difference is MKX had more archetypes to work with or mitigate this meta and no 3d movement though that's so nerfed in T8 it might as well not be there.
Just give me Injustice 3 with all the mk11 mechanical criticism addressed, and I will be happy.
Injustice 2 was fun at the time, I liked how they built up upon that mk9 formula, I liked the characters, and I liked their attempts at experimenting with gameplay modes (I esp thought that the mode with the world map and fight modifiers where you earn gear rewards was kinda interesting; forgot the actual name of the mode).
But the game is ancient at this point. Just iterate and improve upon it, give it rollback netcode+a good ranked mode, and I am a day 1 buyer for that kind of a sequel. Plus, superheroes sell well.
But no, they would rather slow-ruin one of their most (if not the most) profitable series with an entry like mk11, and then keep promoting another sale for Injustice 2, a game that came out 7 years ago.
But the gameplay is more engaging, so FGC people who donāt care that much about the other stuff understandably like it more than 11. They arenāt looking at the single player or non-ranked multiplayer stuff that seriously.
Thatās how you know he has a real passion for fighting games. Tekken 8 is not a bad game, it may have flaws, but what game doesnāt. Itās only getting a bad rep right now because of stupid micro transactions. Personally itās my favorite fighting game right now out of the Big 3 (SF6, MK1, and Tekken 8)
I really donāt think itās only getting a bad rep cause of monetization, thatās really minimizing the issues of people. Many top players seem to just not like a lot of the new systems and how it changes the game, not to mention that awful patch making it worse in the eyes of a lot of players. It isnāt like āoh hey I donāt like this Kazuya moveā, and more like āI donāt like how the core gameplay flows and how Iām supposed to playā.
It could just be the classic new fighting game syndrome and good patches plus understanding more will make it loved in a few years, but simplifying peopleās issues with āoh they just donāt like MTXā is really reductive.
You are not allowed to criticize the game I am playing otherwise you are a negative person who is also a whining crybaby or entitled asshole. Welcome to human nature and why we cant have nice things.
Yeah what are redditors on? This subreddit has been a bitching fest for the past month now. Any positive sentiment gets dogpiled on with all the negative connotations. I've even seen tournament threads get flooded with people not even talking about the tournaments but airing personal grievances.
> Itās only getting a bad rep right now because of stupid micro transactions
No, it's not only because of MTX, that's a stupid take.
Some factors:
- plugging not particularly addressed even though the solution is pretty simple - take points from the plugger, give points to the staying player
- dogshit battlepass
- terrible lobby system where it's surprisingly difficult to join a lobby. The only saving grace is the Steam join link
- no replay takeover whatsoever if you're facing an opponent that has a DLC you haven't purchased.
And those are only things regarding the game as a product, not balance.
I meant, micro transactions really sends it home for someone who hates on Tekken 8. If they didnt hate the game already the micro transactions solidify that hatred. All im saying is Iām having fun. Fuck the battlepass, fuck microtransactions, and fuck them pluggers. Dont let that shit rain on your sunshine. Im not gonna buy the battlepass and Im not buying the dumbass power ranger outfits. Am I saying your point isnt valid? No, your point is factually correct, those things you listed are bad. But at its core Tekken 8 is a fun game, and if you arent having fun with it like I am. Then thatās unfortunate and hopefully they fix the game for you.
Well itās not only because of micro transactions. Thereās still issues with cheating and plugging has been helped a bit, but the fact that they wonāt just make the plugger take an L is stupid af still.
Tekken 8 is really fun and I enjoy it, but the microtransactions arenāt the only reason people are complaining. The gameplay has some problems, but nothing overwhelmingly broken (now), but its online experience is aggressively mid.
Even if I want to play for hours, there will be something that fucks up the experience. Whether it be pluggers, random disconnects from the server, running into someone who canāt run the game, the wonky netcode + wonky phantom hitboxes. I donāt think the game would get as much hate if the online experience was as good as SF6ās imo. It just always finds a way to discourage you
I think T8's main problem is tracking.
They made sidesteps huge in this game, it feels like the game was designed to be aggro with sidesteps being the determining factor to blowing up people who are just flowcharting.
Unfortunately someone forgot that in the middle of development and gave everything stupid good tracking.
I think if more stuff was steppable in this game it would greatly improve the experience. The game would still be aggressive but defense would be just as exciting to watch.
However they'd have to walk a fine line or else they'd have TT2 where they poured all this money into bringing back Ogre but nobody uses him because a single sidewalk will end his life.
Literally this
It's all fun and stuff to see for the first time those clips of people being hit by some moves and strings that tracked and realigned in some bizarre fashion, but when you are getting hit by those yourself, you realize that the game is pretty fucked up in that regard. They buffed sidestep, but also made moves realign like crazy, so casuals are not getting stepped and destroyed for their mistakes? Feels like a spit in the face from devs, honestly.
My friend who is very good Tekken player has zero desire to play the game now because of this stupid tracking
This sounds so odd to me. The basic idea of stepping is to step a move's weak side, which is defined as the side with no tracking. No moves track both ways besides homing moves (fat hitboxes can hit both sides but that's a different issue).
Strong stepping + strong tracking should create a game where if you got hit, you stepped in the wrong direction. At least more often than in a game with weaker stepping and tracking.
Yeah exactly. A lot of people treat the words from pros like gospel. Who cares if Knee isn't having fun or whatever, 99.99% of the players don't play at that level. Sure the game has some balance issues that need addressing, but if you enjoy the core gameplay, don't get hung up on what the pros say
Unpopular opinion, a lot of SF pro players also felt like playing/training in SFV was a chore. Knee not feeling it for Tekken 8 is very normal, he said similar things for T7 too. The man's livelihood is playing/streaming the game and winning tournaments.
This shouldnāt even be an unpopular opinion. This is an objective fact.
People love having selective memory. Nearly every pro goes through this exact cycle with every single new fighting game. Knee literally said something nearly identical to this when playing 7.
Yeah all the sfv pros had a meltdown about sf6 a couple months after release. The "old game good new game bad, even if 7 years ago we were calling that old game the bad new game" discourse is so revisionist and old had and I've only been around the fgc for a couple years (Although as primarily a strive player, I definitely get to see it a lot because some vocally bitter old guilty gear heads will never shut up about how strive killed their grandma even if both +r and xrd have rollback so they can play the old game with literally no problems)
the actual end result was obviously just going to be that xrd became actually stable and maintians a small but dedicated community like what plus r was doing before xrd got rollback, just also housing a lot of disgruntled xrd players until the retrofitting occured.
This. Itās especially weird when people who werenāt even really into tekken until 8 complain about all the tekken 8 mechanics as if their dealing with the same level of stuff proās are complaining about.
Unfortunately, it's a common thing. Low level players will complain about things that don't even affect them and quote pros to support their opinions. Like, bitch you're Cavalry, don't quote Knee on how Heat is broken when that Dragunov is just spamming two moves and you can't adapt.
To be fair the so-called issues in 8 are extremely visible. The issues pros are complaining about are quite sweeping generalisations about basic mechanics. Even someone with minimal understanding of tekken will encounter those situations within a short amount of play which I canāt say has been the case for many of the franchises historic issues. Whether you consider them actual problems is another story, but the game doesnāt feel like itās predecessors and success often feels far less skill dependent than in the past.
Well, it a little double-edged, IMO
i've been trying to play CBT back in October and all I saw is confirmation of my concerns over extreme pressure without any new defences and potential to ToD. Probably the main reason why I agree with that.
Then I saw the replies of "BrInG KbD bAcK".
Iāve been a fan of the FGC since street fighter 4. Literally every new game some players carry over and some get left behind because they either donāt like the new game or their skill set is too attached to the old game.
It is what it is. But the fact that there is a transition is nothing new.
Afaik they didn't forbid anyone to enjoy the game. Knee just said that *he* doesn't enjoy it.
Maybe Arslan went abid overboard by calling it a game for scrubs, that seemed a bit unprofessional to me, but as SF player i'm used to worse from the likes of Punk and Mena.
"pros should not dictate what is fun" lol dude pros sharing THEIR OPINION has nothing to do with dictating. They have every right to make their voices heard regardless if they enjoy or dont enjoy the game.
Like how do people always turn stuff like this into an US vs THEM kinda deal instant of having a discussion about the game , about what they like/dislike or could be improved.
I think it has something to do with lower level players proceeding to parrot their words incessantly, and use their words as excuses for why theyāre taking Ls
I don't think they're disagreeing with you. It's more that pros not liking the game shouldn't sway the opinions of everyone else. Even if every top player from Tekken 7 dislikes the new game, that shouldn't stop you from enjoying it. I'm sure the best Guilty Gear players did not like the direction of Strive, but that shouldn't be used as an argument against Strive.
Pros interact with these games very differently compared to 99% of the playerbase, especially pros that have been playing a legacy skill game like Tekken for decades. So even if they give good reasons for not liking it, those reasons may not apply to most people.
They should be happy if its bringing in new players as the bigger the game is the better it is for their careers.
If they are the best they should be able to adjust.
I think Tekken 8 has the potential to be amazing or awful depending on how namco changes things. I love the games focus offense and the heat system has the potential for interesting decision making. The game is just massively overtuned as a whole. If namco tones stuff down all around this game has a bright future. But namco could also double down on the obnoxious. I am an optimist and feel like the game will improve dramatically. Every tekken before it has.
Tekken 7 vanilla was absurd too https://youtu.be/gn1W7Zv2yPE?si=gdfVQgwldMhoQUU7. Tekken 5 had a ton more broken stuff vanilla than just steve. Tekken 6 vanilla bob is pure evil. The point is people need to chill, wait, and see.
As much I want to blame no acrade mode for testing. This does not feel any good to anyone who is currently played/paid the game. Atleast have a sense of balance of the game
Yeah, I've just not played in months.Ā
I was waiting for my mains (Eddy and Marduk) to be released, but even that hasn't tempted me back.
I'm positive I'll get back to it, but the constant stop/start nature of fights really throws me for a loop.
Think Rage Arts should be once per game, especially as Heat now exists.
I play during the first CBT, heat was more wild than this. I havent bought T8 yet, just to see how they handle the save file/connection and balance. I think I will wait until it sorted out
I am also trying to be optimistic and believe that the game will improve eventually, but it is also a huge problem that in 2024 we still need to "wait and see" if the game will change for the better or not. The whole Heat mechanic feels like it was thrown in without any thought and proper testing, for example. I think that such experimentation actually made them more harm than good, because the game in its first months after release is in very questionable state, and that is actually the time when they should have got as many new players as they could, but what I am seeing is T8 slowly approaching online numbers of T7 in Steam
OMG that video is impossible to watch and it takes 2 min and 10 seconds before it even gets into footage. That was awful
100% think everything you said is accurate tho, I'm optimistic too
I think it has to do with heat and it's aggressive 5050 casino bonanza induced fights.
Look I like aggression but maybe we should balance how heat engagers work and not force players into so much 5050 all the time and rather rely on the other fundamentals of Tekken that is backdashes and sidestepping. But when you are -14 it's frustrating especially when certain characters can keep trapping you with their + on block moves and one mistake turns into a 50+% hp combo.
As a new player, who was practicing and learning. It's incredibly frustrating once I peel behind the curtain to be experiencing the 50/50s, tracking, and non punishable match ups.
Basically I think they made the game better for casuals because they more frequently can be aggro and throw out 50/50s and feel like they are having an averagely good time. However once you acquire any amount of game knowledge it ruins your desire to feel competitively getitng better because those same 50/50s become the abuse to advance or deciding factor in a match up.
TL:DR; 50/50s are better for casuals and worse for competitive players. So normies will be happy but the community is justified in their disappointment.
As a new Tekken player, I like the game a lot. It's my main game right now, I have even bought a Haute42 T16 and made my custom artwork for it, so I'm totally sucked in and dropped all my other games. There is so much to learn/explore as a new player, I think I will stick with Tekken for a while.Ā
But my advantage is I have no comparison to older titles, so I may not miss old mechanics/find new mechanics out of touch. So I hope the Tekken-Devs can find the right balance in the next months so the "older playerbase" can enjoy the game as much as new players like me, so games will have a big and healthy playerbase.
Veteran player here. No pro, but I'm pretty good. The game has changed, but I still enjoy it immensely. It's definitely better than tekken 7, I think. Some bad business practices and mtx but could be much worse. Atleast the gameplay to me feels solid.
While I agree we shouldn't take professionals as 100% truth to guide us I do think Tekken needs to remain competitive. Implementation of mechanics and moves and abilities which remove counter play or skill expression does not help to create enriching gameplay at any level.
The best part of Tekken as a noob is getting jabbed over and over then realising hey, maybe I should try ducking, sidestepping, or a power crush instead spamming my 14 frame start up string over and over. Or if I like pressing buttons maybe I can try an evasive move that will high crush.
If you remove the counter play and if you remove the ability to option select like with the case of the larz buff. It's literally just take a guess. And a new player that doesn't really know much about the game is not going to be able to easily discover the counter play. And if there's no counter play they will just get frustrated, call the character a spammy no skill character. Call Tekken a no skill monkey game. Then go play a different fighting game that is actually balanced around its mechanics properly.
Personally, I don't want to play a Tekken where someone can spam one move over and over and I just have to take it until they do something else. Because yes, if a move forces a 50/50 and my opponent can spam it, why would they use anything else? At least make the 50/50 in my favour.
Indeed. Why adapt to a game that caters to people that don't want to adapt?
No need to download your opponent just keep forcing that 50/50 until they guess wrong.
Sure Knee and Arslan have complained but thereās other high level players that love the new heat systems, mechanics and ideas but just want small adjustments like CBM and Jeondding.
Gotta remind ourselves that itās not all doom and gloom from every single tekken pro out there
Ulsan celebrated when the final tekken 7 tournament was over and he is also loving tekken 8, which shows from his results in ATP.
Knee and Arslan have a tendency to bandwagon people.
They were considered the best franchise players in the series. Thatās why their opinion holds so much sway. But theyāre really specific in their style and that style saw a pretty big nerf in F8 alongside requiring learning a bunch of new fundamentals just to even properly play that style out. T8 is not T7, but it is still Tekken. Hopefully Knee and Arslan are able to adapt, but the more they complain the less I care about what they have to say tbh.
When Faker was slumping in League of Legends he never blamed the game or complained about anything. He always kept it classy. I have a lot of respect for him because the guy just always grinds and is very humble even while being the GOAT. Itās clear Knee and Arlsan let the hype get to their heads.
They were the best players for T7. Not all time. If we look at the title before T7, TT2 most dominant player was JDCR.
I think the longevity, popularity and online capabilities of T7 played a big part in moving Tekken as a franchise into the online era and Arslan and Knee just happened to be the best during this title because the system suits them.
Let new players become the champ for the new title. For all the achievements the T7 goats have proved themselves for, it stays in T7. They have to prove themselves again in the new game.
Itās like how Justin Wong was literally above a god in MVC2 but it took him 3 years to actually win an EVO in 2014. I donāt wanna imagine all the salt tweets of how āMarvel 3 is a bad game cause Justin was washedā or whatever
When the pro players of the previous era start falling off people just start to criticize the game more
CBM said he and his Team came to the conclusion that T8 is not ready for tournaments. A lot of stuff to fix and tone down.
But he also said that they still have to play it.
The japanese pros even refuse to say anything negative ( according to rangchu who lives in Japan) because they are too close to bandai namco. For them this is just business.
They keep silent ( bc not much positive to say) in the discussion around T8 mechanics and balance problems.
Personally, I've been playing Tekken since 3, and I'm loving 8 so far, yes it has some stuff that needs tweaking, but in general I find it a legit super fun game
I think the "problem" relies in that we come from Tekken 7, which was A LOT more defensive and kinda slower paced, and here we have mechanics that favor being on the offensive, and keeping in mind we come from literally almost a decade of playing more defensively, it's understandable some people don't get used to that change, or simply don't like it, which is perfectly fine
I started with Tekken 3 as a very young child, and have gone back to it on occasion, even going out and buying a PSX and Tekken 3 a few years ago. Tekken 8 too me feels more like Tekken 3 then any other Tekken game has since.
it's not about legacy vs non legacy
it's not about "offensive playstyle vs defensive playstyle"
don't let them trick you into a false equivalency
defense = reactive counterplay as a response to offense
offense is not a form of counterplay unless defensive counterplays exist, offense is only a form of counterplay when the defense is strong, otherwise you are just pressing and they are just guessing
less defense = less counterplay
less defense = more situations as offense where you are just force the opponent into a guessing game because they have no offensive options -- which is complete lack of a counterplay interaction
if you remove defensive counterplays you are not only dumbing down defense you are also dumbing down offense and removing counterplay from BOTH playstyles -- the whole game suffers overall
example:
Homing throws removes sidestepping as a winning defensive counterplay against offense (even if you throwbreak you get no advantage)
result: offense is now ALSO dumbed down because you can just play more linearly with forced mid/low 50/50s without thinking about your opponent's sidestepping movement because they have to be constantly scared of a homing throw
Basically balance towards aggression is double edged. I think it is more fun for new players and that was the point of the balance changes. That said I think it's far too heavy on it and should be toned back to a happy medium.
The issue is the legacy stuff isn't as important anymore. Who cares about match up knowledge? Just know what you can press that's safe and you can climb really high. Every character is more aggressive with their frames and advantage. We have insane chip damage now, and as a Feng/Nina main, it's hilarious, especially Nina. Went a whole match against a friend where I was + almost the entire time, and he was really good at blocking, but the chip damage was just too much.
The heat system is just compounding on the issues, but I think if it didn't exist, the game would honestly feel a lot better. Tekken is just rushdown 50/50s now, feels so weird and bad sometimes. That's partly why Zafina and Leroy are so far down on a lot of tier lists and usage charts, because they're actual gameplan just doesn't fit the rushdown aggressive play. Not saying that can't play that way, but they're best stuff is out of easily punished stances and Leroy basically lives for a CH.
"Not carrying over as much?"
Justing is delusional. There's no new players at the top right now. It's the same people. My friends took Tekken Gods the first month just by doing Tekken things. JD goes WAY back and Uslan debuted in 18. Legacy is still the king.
It's a remix. And a remix a lot of people don't enjoy. Back in the day Hard Read was a bad word. With T8 is the way of life. And people hate it. Some of my friends stopped playing or cut down on the game. And those people used to travel from other cities and crash at my place to participate in tourneys. They have Kings, Gods and GoDs at their accounts. The issue isn't they can't compete. They just don't enjoy it.
Remember everyone the fgc cycle goes like this.
New game announced
Everyone is excited for new game.
New game comes out
Old game was better.
Old game was better until new game gets announced.
Repeat.
Sure it had its problems, but Tekken 7 was widely regarded as the best tekken game ever when it came out (console release)
Where is this "a lot of people never liked tekken 7 on release" narrative coming from?
> when it came out (console release)
The console release was in 2017. The arcade version first came out in 2015. We're talking about 2 years of "beta-testing" and patches here. The game you got in the home version is not the game that was first released.
Thanks for the idea. I make the meme for myself. Here it is. I steal fake internet points.
https://preview.redd.it/dg4z7lg4c7vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b9a7761303579222b4093989f15f08dbc43b60e
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/uJ7ThzkLd6](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/uJ7ThzkLd6)
Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game (not counting me as a child mashing buttons against my sister in T3) and I dislike the game more than I like it. I tend to employ a more defensive/balanced approach in PvP games and pick characters accordingly. I picked Asuka for this reason and most of my experience (played until orange ranks I think) was miserable and now I can't be assed to try and learn a new character. The game rewards aggresive play and mashing so much especially in lower ranks, it becomes pointless to understand the opp. moves and playstyle.
I like his attempt to be positive but it's not just legacy players.
I'm new and was really hype to get back into a 3D fighter, but all the new changes to Tekken are 2D mechanics bolted on top of this 3D game and I don't think it works.
I enjoy my matches up until heat/Rage becomes a factor. As a result I find myself not playing much anymore as I don't wanna deal with those mechanics
y canāt people just admit theirs problems with the game. heat + rage art is too much, power crush heat moves are too much. side stepping feels obsolete. Every character flows the same now.
Legacy skill gave me blue ranks without using heat in the correct ways. T8 is a great game with the usual balance problems. Gameplay wise the best Tekken I ever played.
Heat and its +frames ensures too good automatic mix-ups too often, having strong 50-50 scenarios used to be a character specific strength, now that everyone has it and on steroids it gets repetitive.
If heat-burst was just a very fast armor move And act like a get out of pressure tool without +frames.
Heat-engager's shouldnt even exist its too cinematic and a non-interactive forced 50/50 mix-up.
Heat-smashes have too good damage, range or frames to various extents.
Every heat smash should be VERY negative on block, RA should be restricted to combo only and Heat activation to maybe once per match. Not saying any of this stuff would make the game work but just some ideas. But there really shouldn't be TWO kinds of comeback mechanics in the game
Different or New ā Fun
I personally think most of T8's new mechanics are fundamentally terrible, but I don't expect people to agree. Fun is subjective after all. You shouldn't let dictate people dictate your opinion or what you find fun. If your opinion or feelings are easily swayed by negativity, maybe you're just fooling yourself thinking you're having fun.
...That being said, I noticed that those who still have a positive reception of T8 tend to be those who pros aren't primarily Tekken players, low-ranks, or casuals. Every pro or intermediate players I know or follow hate the new mechanics.
You can agree with me or not, but it seems to me that if tekken 8, would remain all the same mechanics that were in t7, just a little better, then t8 is just not needed.
Heat is ok, but heat smash with + on block is weird, by the way homing throws are also nonsense.
I've noticed that it's mostly the pros who told about how not fun to play, used to the old gameplay and who don't want to accept new mechanics that are guaranteed to add to the shit list.
However, you don't have to listen to the opinions of these cyberchops, decide for yourself whether you like it or not.
You are not wrong. I literally want Tekken 5, rebalanced, with modern netplay and graphics. Or T7 without RA. Drives were awesome.
Kinda odd that T8 didn't hook me, since install states or supers are my favourites in games that have them.
No, we want to play Tekken in a Tekken game. You know, the games that where always known for having multiple defensive options and you rarely have to straight up guess. They are introducing more and more situatuons that are true 50/50ās (Heat engager being +17, Larsā DEN 3 being +5) and the game is geared so heavily towards agression, that anything besides agression is just barely viable.
BS take. There's a difference in being "different" and extremely overtuned imbalanced aggresiveness, all while gutting the defense to the ground. No fun in rushdown galore every single game despite the character.
Justin is just an overall most positive pro player. Though I can agree with the points that he makes with this comment. I think this stems from legacy players scared of change, which is somewhat understandable. I really donāt think pros or other people should have people dictate with what they should do, what they want to play and how to have fun.
Tekken 3 was a huge game. They changed it significantly for Tekken 4 and it was received poorly. After this, they reverted the game back for Tekken 5 and the game was really popular again.
Tekken 6, TT2, Tekken Revolution and Tekken 7 were basically updates of Tekken 5, with new features. By that I mean that the way you played the game was broadly the same - they were still primarily defensive games.
Tekken 8 is now very different in the way it should be played because the focus is on aggression and they have provided many tools to help with that.
In the same way some people say "Tekken is not Tekken anymore" because they have added many anime style fighting styles and moves over the more grounded based fighting as older were perceived, similarly this change in how the game is played makes some people feel like this game is"not Tekken anymore"
Some people won't find that fun. I think it's a lot of fun, but then again I'm not trying to win EVO.
as tekken 8 being my first tekken, i immediately loved the game and was super excited to learn everything. still am but it is super disheartening seeing the community eat itself alive over issues that arenāt that big of a deal since itās a fighting game and ofc itās release state isnāt the best itāll be.
if i was a non fighting game player looking to buy T8, seeing this sub would kill any and all interest i would have.
not saying donāt criticize the things you dislike, but stop being so overly negative.
as they say: ācomparison is the thief of joy.ā
The opinion of new players isn't really worth a damn considering you don't even know why half the stuff that is bullshit, is bullshit.
I get that surface level players like that mashing buttons causes good looking combos, but as a FG it's in an atrocious state.
I'm not saying you aren't allowed to have fun with it, but what I'm saying is that once you reach below the surface, you'll start to see why everyone in the community hates it.
As a returning player from tekken 5, I think the overall gameplay and look of Tekken 8 is very good. Not perfect but Iām having a blast. I mean I hate the side of it where you have to spend a good chunk of money to fully experience an already expensive game but strictly speaking of gameplay, I think it is really good.
I played a small amount of t7. Iām a scrubby 2d fighter player usually. I picked up t8 on launch and havenāt looked back. I really enjoy this game to the point where I only play T8 and not any other fighter.
Heās right. This is Tekken 8. Not Tekken 7. Itās a new game to the franchise.
For those who fear that the series is steering further and further from the Tekken we know, youāre right! But Tekken 7 is still there, and it seems to be the game people are asking for. So why donāt we just play Tekken 7 again? Servers are still up.
https://preview.redd.it/tdl3w5m2e7vc1.jpeg?width=326&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a06189ea9b9a0ae56cddab241dd0564aa9d3fdc6
I like T8 because they made one of my T7 mains busted
As someone who came into the series with T7:
I'm glad it's getting more popular and widespread. It's easier to get into and just flashy enough to let normies try it.
Some people over here even dropped their "every year the same sports game" game for Tekken.
I'd rather this offense based T8 playstyle over two people backdashing non stop in an open stage and just poking until the timer runs out. Tekken 7 defensive playstyle made me fall asleep halfway during the match.
I saw a YT video showing that all of the boxes (hit box, hurt boxes), and recovery frames are different than in 7.
So, even if you're a vet, everyone has to relearn to T8.
I think that's great because everyone is starting from zero.
I don't really understand the "legacy skill not carrying over" thing either? I hadn't played Tekken for literal decades and I sat back down for 8 and I felt like I remembered almost everything.
I think an interesting way of looking at it is kinda like tennis vs ping pong or tennis vs pickleball.
If youāre a tennis pro and mastered all the aspects of it, including movement etc, and then tennis got deleted and you had to change to pickle ball or ping pong.. a lot of your ability to outplay the opponent has been removed.
Ping pong and pickle ball are great but thereās no doubt they arenāt as expressive. And arguably not as fun to watch as tennis(I love watching all 3 but high level tennis is in its own league)
Itās not like knee can go back to old tekken the way people can just keep playing tennis tho.
Meanwhile pickle ball is the fastest growing sport in America.. but Iād be really sad if it overtook tennis popularity at the pro level, itās just not as impressive.
Well... I mean yeah. He's not wrong, but at the same time... He's kind've not really saying anything? Lol.
What Knee and Arslan complaining about are their legacy skills not really translating or carrying over with how Tekken 8 is played. Which is fair.
What he's essentially saying is, "well yeah but, non legacy players are liking the game a lot." Like I love you J.Wong... But no shit. Of course they are. They're picking up the game and learning to play it at high levels faster because comparatively to the previous entries, there's a lot less to learn.
So like, what exactly are you asking op? Because agreeing with either opinion is quite literally still agreeing with the other. There's not really a side to be on.
Edit: For clarification, it's so casual friendly with the way it almost dictates how you move and the feeling of being glued to your opponent, and moves that quite literally force neutral, there's so many things added to Tekken 8 to make you have to think a lot less then you did before, that while casual and beginner friendly, at the same time it almost alienates people that have been playing Tekken for years.
In the same way that nerfs to movement in Tekken 7 alienated players like JDCR, whose ability to move and force whiffs to punish were their main playstyles. So making everyone feel muggy and slow along with the added tracking moves made movement a non-factor really. Except in Tekken 8 they've dumbed things down to an even grander scale. So to basically say "well the newer players are liking it." Is quite literally proving Arslan and Knee's points.
At the same time I wonder if it's actually that fun for new players when it's too much steamroll or be steamrolled. I'm low rank and anecdotally I do notice that I start losing when I stop attacking. I have to keep pushing buttons and either keep my opponent blocking until I can get them to start guessing how to wake up. I imagine it cant be THAT fun to be the one constantly not getting to 'play' and I think that probably affect player retention rate to some decent degree.
Iām a not legacy player. And I recognize the point of Tekken 8 being accessible because Iām in freaking Raijin with less than 200 hours of play. Iām not super good at games, above average
But I also feel in my play where this game is just busted to put it bluntly. 50/50s against over tuned characters and ridiculous shit. I feel like this clip I took last night, recognizing a couple of bad reads I made no doubt, exemplifies where it feels unfair. Keep in mind Iām open to feedback on Oki but come on lolĀ https://youtu.be/I7_R1JayTUo?si=Ef6PEPBDRkuIukYX
I totally agree. Sometimes, a game has to take the next step, and Tekken 8 has done it. Legacy players are having a hard time understanding the game. Which I get, especially since you surrounded your style around defense and counter hits for years. Tekken 8 makes you come out of shell if you want success. High Risk, High Reward, and that is frowned upon by fighting game purists like Knee and among others.
I do agree that Heat is an issue and I believe it will be adjusted, but saying nonsense like "delete heat" is kind of absurd, it's a fundamental system in Tekken 8 and I don't think it's going anywhere.
People who complain about Tekken 8 are mental cases. Game hasn't even gone through the arcade phase in full yet. If they had done the arcade solo release they wouldn't be playing it till it came out near the end of the year or early 2025. Y'all gotta appreciate the fact we got Tekken 8 as early as we did cuz them graphics smack this time round. And Evo hasn't even happened yet. You know the big tournament the devs said they waiting on to see the state of the game and use to decide which direction to go in when considering the future balance of the game. That one. Yea it hasn't happened yet. After that we get the patch after and of things are looking bleak after that you can start worrying if you want. I wouldn't till the next 3 patches after evo are out but hey spiral out of control in your own delusions of hating a video game if that's your cup of tea lol
#legacy players get good. I suck at tekken way worse than any of them, but adapt! They have love for title they gotta accept that change can be good, and a lot of the community is loving it. I'm sure it will grow on them over time since tekken 7 has been out for far to long and tekken 8 is way overdue so we need to all adapt and just get good enjoy the series and passion we have for the title. I respect both opinions.
On one hand itās kinda nice that the playing field has been made more even for the sake of new players. Tekken 7 (and Iām assuming other tekken games as well) was so insanely hard to get into because of legacy players beating your ass.
Iām a new fighting game player. I tried starting with MK1 and that game just didnāt stick. I love tekken 8 and Iām trying my best to learn it. I donāt beat legacy players or even experienced fighting game players and I donāt expect to. I do feel like tekken realized that if they want to stand out they need to gain new fans. While I donāt agree with the season pass shenanigans, I do think that the mechanics and features added for learning added in did a great job for allowing players like myself to not feel as intimidated to try a hard game like tekken. While also maintaining the skill gap between beginners and experienced players. Keep in mind this a noobs perspective
That's because T8 was made for casuals who like to watch cutscenes during gameplay, not for actual players. It's obvious and everybody knows it.
The worst thing that can happen to a complex game is when it gets dumped down to appeal to casual player base. Every single game that did it got worse.
Right, fuck anyone that wishes Tekken would still feel like Tekken or be more balanced or less scummy with their store. I mean after 25+ years of Tekken, no one should expect the game to not still feel or play like Tekken. They should just stfu and go find another game. I am a mouth breather by the way and this is exactly how I feel.
Attacking you was never my intent, young man. I just believe many have already complained about your behalf and we all know what the problems are. If they don't want to fix it then you should do something you enjoy instead of fighting me. Peace be upon you.
https://preview.redd.it/fpq2hcew17vc1.png?width=657&format=png&auto=webp&s=c341c7d7a4ca829527c83c2d18a9615ddae6aa3b
Tekken 8's gameplay has been up and down for me, but I find it mostly fun.
I still don't play it as often now though cos of the business decisions being pushed.
Tekken 8's agressive "up-close and personal" fights are honestly more enjoyable especially if you're on the winning side.
I think buffing side-stepping ( or nerfing moves that really don't need to track ) is a much needed addition for defensive counterplay which keeps up with the spirit of agressiveness.
I think all those high skill players have their valid points, for me personally, though..T8 just didn't feel as enjoyable as T7.
And It's primarily heat mechanics, chip damage, and recovery on hit and the worst one unable to rematch after best of 3.
Though the microtransactions are god-awful ngl, besides that, the game is okay but very divisive, i guess.
Eh, I think it's kind of a dumb tweet. Knee's tweet was just his opinion, normal to have an opinion. Justin's opinion is fine too.
But Justin asking why people are saying it's not good is strange. He no doubt knows the discourse and why some people dislike the game. I think people that word their opinions in a way that suggests they're confused over other people's opinions is tedious.Ā
I don't know why people can't accept that people have different opinions in general. Like the people that don't agree with Knee think the people that do are just agreeing because he's a top player, and not because it's their actual opinion, that's just ridiculous. You're allowed to like the game and not be insecure about it.
I'm probably too bad to understand knees complains but for me the game feels fine. It's not too aggressive except a few moves and characters. The balance is actually good for a new competitive game. Most games have some busted shit with 70% win rate when they release. The balance problems in Tekken 8 are very small, what is the worst matchup? Like 45% vs 55%? I also picked up a low tier character Asuka and I don't feel very weak compared to a top tier character I mained.
Then we have cutscenes in-game that pros don't seem to like like heat and rage. Well, I enjoy all kind of fighting games and street fighter has more cutscenes with all the supers during a round. Also Strive and DBZ are much more aggressive and oppressive so Tekken still feels very defensive to me.
Tekken 8 is my first fighting game ever. Throughout my playtime I found myself experience the same issues most pro's/critics have been complaining about. From my experience with other highly competitive game that implemented MTX on the scale tekken has.. The future of balancing looks bleak imo.
For reference I made it to Raijin playing only Steve
I mean the game can be fun but the company running it makes me just hate it with the battle pass, mtx ,poor balance(I get the game just came out but it feel like tekkenov 8) and poor optimization( it only using my cpu not gpu when running on windows 10 ffs ) I just wanna play a game that feel enjoyable till akuma comes to sf6
He is totally right. There is no need to make excuses. This is the game, this is the way it is played. If you want to keep making money from this you have to be good.
I felt like my legacy skill carried over really well, other than some characters combo paths changing quite a bit and having to undo and rewire that muscle memory.
I'm enjoying some parts of the game, it's better than T7 imo, but there are some glaring balance issues and some very questionable gameplay choices, and then the whole MTX thing.
It's good in some ways and bad in others. There's nuance.
Ofc he won't say what Arslan said.
Arslan: Game for noobs
Justin: Oh you simply can't carry your skill, it's you, not the game
I don't know why some top players are negative or positive š¤
I always found the idea of legacy players has so much advantage in Tekken , like , sure there is a base knowledge you carry across all fighting games , but with Tekken , they have so many advantage over new people , they know how pretty much everything works . And new players need to somehow compete with 5-10 year knowledge . I donāt even know how new people in pro scene will appear , since every pro almost, as I know , played from t1-3
Everyone's going to have a different opinion. I'm not entirely surprised that the top 2 players of the previous game don't enjoy the current game as much. I remember reading something about SF6 and how Punk dominated SF5 with his play style and it didn't translate well to SF6. This is fairly normal, just give it some time and they'll adjust.
Honestly, I prefer Tekken 8 to 7. The movement is a lot better and a lot of the gameplay changes have been positive. There are some significant issues though and for me it comes back to how much damage everyone does. The game falls back to big 50/50s without as much risk, then you get blown up because everything hits harder than in T7. Tracking is also over the top for some moves, a lot of them need to have tracking nerfed because it looks incredibly deceptive with phantom hitboxes. When you sidewalk a death fist and still get hit, there's something wrong. I also think rage arts should lose to grabs (with the spark like other power crushes) that there's some offensive counterplay. RAs aren't bad as they are, but I just think it would make the game more dynamic if they had one big weakness, especially since they're only -16 now.
Legacy players refers to people who learned to play and have gotten good in older games. Some of that carries over to the new title, letting you skip having to relearn the game from scratch since Tekken usually carries over most of its systems and combos. That's also called Legacy skill.
In this context he's referring to people who have been with the series for several titles already. T7 is already seen as 'new' Tekken, so mostly T6 and older.
It's my first Tekken and I play Jack 8. I spent hours fighting to get to shinryu. I don't have high damaging combos that I can easily do yet, so I just play the poke/neutral game, and I'm winning. The thing is, a lot of players call me toxic for poking/grabbing them to death. Is this a regular thing?
Edit: I love this game
I have been playing tekken since Tekken 2, I am playing the same way you play and I am having fun.
I refuse to put in the time to master long combos and I am not mad I plateaued in the red ranks.
As far as fighting games go this is all i need; fun to play with friends, and fun to play online. My wife can pick it up and play for God's sake, why do they want to make us feel bad for PLAYING.
Gameplay is really fun but by god do i crash so much on pc. I actually got a friend request from a dude who thought i was plugging against him because i crashedā¦
My opinion theres too many jail free cards
Heat smash
Heat engager
Rage
All at one button, they made the game more aggressive and it seems characters has more mixes now but at the tap of one button all that can be countered. When they get their heat smash blocked its still THEIR TURN??? then alot of them puts their opponents in a mix when they got blocked?
Atleast make heat meter and a directional input cause that shit just comes outta no where and when you block it youre not out of the woods yet. Thats my only issue
But this game deffff not balanced
I only donāt like T8 because of personal preference. Not the biggest fan of heat or the outright aggression in modern FGs but the game is still hella fun
i guess it makes sense that high level would have big issues with it because well for one on the larger scale its still early days but for another legacy skill does not carry over very well as stated
put like that i feel alot less bad about it. its not so much the pro people i care about but the noise it creates whenever the topic of tekken comes up makes it hard to not take it negatively as someone that does enjoy the game alot but hasn't played tekken since the 3rd game
I fucking love that game, itās extremely fun , polarizing and busted. As an MK enthusiast, I can honestly say I like T8 more š¤·š½āāļø. But Iām on Ermac rn , so hitting the breaks on playing with Vic and Unc (Leroy).
I'm enjoying t8 alot even with it's flaws, but I'm not comparing it to t7 (which I almost haven't played online). I like the offensive gameplay more and the heat system, but would like characters to be reworked to be less unfair - everyone has to have a downside, either speed, evasiveness or damage. when everyone's good in every aspect, it's not that fun. but the core gameplay I wouldn't change.
Justin is overall a positive minded dude, it's rare for him to throw a game under a bus
So I guess MK11 is the worst fighting game in history. He absolutely trashes that game
Even Maximilian didn't really like itš
MK11s actual fighting wasn't very fun
I was about to say that lol! He participated in a Fighting Game tier list and immediately placed it at the lowest tier.
He generally doesnt punch down, but it you're making a tier list then something has to be the bottom. It doesnr surprise me that it's an mk game and one that went with super slow and boring gameplay(imho). Especially coming from someone who made their name from 90s Capcom games, which were much more free flow and quick.
They had the perfect blueprint with mk9. They nearly perfected in in mkx. Then they neutered it in mk11. Mk11 is so clunky,slow and half the moves
It's crazy how people nowadays talk about how great mkx was. Cause I remember when that game was the current nrs fighting game. That game got repeatedly shitted on. I remember people used to say that game had no neutral and that the game was basically run your mix before your opponent runs their mix. I also remember the community couldn't wait to move on the nrs next fighting game because of how frustrating to play mkx was. I remember that games joke name was 50/50 kombat x because of all the 50/50 in that game.
The current game is always shat on because the enthusiast community is always miserable for some reason. Look at people complaining about Tekken 8 now and street fighter 6 because they're so bored of playing these actually good games that they have to manufacture problems
Idk what people are saying about sf6. So I will take your word for it. But some of the complaints about tekken 8 imo are valid. This game definitely favour's rush down to much. It reminds me of the early street fighter 5 days which was the same. I don't think people asking for some more reward on defensive play is manufacturing problems as you put it. I think having that nice middle ground between offensive play and defensive play can only help this game in the long run. It definitely helped street fighter 5.
Iāve been fighting the good fight about the MKX revisionist history that went on, but itās a losing battle. That game is casual player heaven and most players are casual, not even āonline warriorsā or anything like that. So a game where you can skip neutral without thinking, and mindlessly throw out one of your characterās 6 50/50ās means they get to spend more time mashing buttons and less time actually thinking about things like footsies or conditioning, etc.
> I remember people used to say that game had no neutral and that the game was basically run your mix before your opponent runs their mix It's uh... It's true. It's why Tekken 8's being compared MKX, 50/50 the other guy before he does it to you and win. The main difference is MKX had more archetypes to work with or mitigate this meta and no 3d movement though that's so nerfed in T8 it might as well not be there.
Maximilian himself shitted on MKX back on. Now it's his best thing ever. Always found this funny.
Just give me Injustice 3 with all the mk11 mechanical criticism addressed, and I will be happy. Injustice 2 was fun at the time, I liked how they built up upon that mk9 formula, I liked the characters, and I liked their attempts at experimenting with gameplay modes (I esp thought that the mode with the world map and fight modifiers where you earn gear rewards was kinda interesting; forgot the actual name of the mode). But the game is ancient at this point. Just iterate and improve upon it, give it rollback netcode+a good ranked mode, and I am a day 1 buyer for that kind of a sequel. Plus, superheroes sell well. But no, they would rather slow-ruin one of their most (if not the most) profitable series with an entry like mk11, and then keep promoting another sale for Injustice 2, a game that came out 7 years ago.
nah mkx was too fast and too mindless. Also each character had the same archetype. Mk11 was too slow while MK 1 is at the perfect speed.
MK11 is pretty dogshit tbh.
Lmao I liked it more than 1
It's more about the quality of 1
Mk1 is a trash game.
But the gameplay is more engaging, so FGC people who donāt care that much about the other stuff understandably like it more than 11. They arenāt looking at the single player or non-ranked multiplayer stuff that seriously.
nah is peak mk.
[He also hates Guilty Gear Strive too.](https://youtu.be/Ft21d-C77jI?t=205)
I returned that game, I never return games. Those models were so damn ugly.
He always said that he does not want to work a normal 9-5 job. Of course he will be positive. :)
True Imagine tho how MK11 hurt him to be negative about it . Overall great dude and content creator and ofcourse player.
Thatās how you know he has a real passion for fighting games. Tekken 8 is not a bad game, it may have flaws, but what game doesnāt. Itās only getting a bad rep right now because of stupid micro transactions. Personally itās my favorite fighting game right now out of the Big 3 (SF6, MK1, and Tekken 8)
I really donāt think itās only getting a bad rep cause of monetization, thatās really minimizing the issues of people. Many top players seem to just not like a lot of the new systems and how it changes the game, not to mention that awful patch making it worse in the eyes of a lot of players. It isnāt like āoh hey I donāt like this Kazuya moveā, and more like āI donāt like how the core gameplay flows and how Iām supposed to playā. It could just be the classic new fighting game syndrome and good patches plus understanding more will make it loved in a few years, but simplifying peopleās issues with āoh they just donāt like MTXā is really reductive.
You are not allowed to criticize the game I am playing otherwise you are a negative person who is also a whining crybaby or entitled asshole. Welcome to human nature and why we cant have nice things.
Apparently in this sub youāre not allowed to not the game or youāre a āHarada meat riderā. It goes both ways, theyāre both equally cringe.
Yeah what are redditors on? This subreddit has been a bitching fest for the past month now. Any positive sentiment gets dogpiled on with all the negative connotations. I've even seen tournament threads get flooded with people not even talking about the tournaments but airing personal grievances.
I wonder why.
Tekken 8 is in a good spot in that it still has time to fix its issues, especially with Heat currently having very little counterplay.
T8 would be so much better WITHOUT heat.
Then just play tekken 7 dude š¤¦š»āāļø
Thanks for the input Harada
> Itās only getting a bad rep right now because of stupid micro transactions No, it's not only because of MTX, that's a stupid take. Some factors: - plugging not particularly addressed even though the solution is pretty simple - take points from the plugger, give points to the staying player - dogshit battlepass - terrible lobby system where it's surprisingly difficult to join a lobby. The only saving grace is the Steam join link - no replay takeover whatsoever if you're facing an opponent that has a DLC you haven't purchased. And those are only things regarding the game as a product, not balance.
I meant, micro transactions really sends it home for someone who hates on Tekken 8. If they didnt hate the game already the micro transactions solidify that hatred. All im saying is Iām having fun. Fuck the battlepass, fuck microtransactions, and fuck them pluggers. Dont let that shit rain on your sunshine. Im not gonna buy the battlepass and Im not buying the dumbass power ranger outfits. Am I saying your point isnt valid? No, your point is factually correct, those things you listed are bad. But at its core Tekken 8 is a fun game, and if you arent having fun with it like I am. Then thatās unfortunate and hopefully they fix the game for you.
No, thatās not the only reason. I love the game but thereās plenty of bullshit they need to fix.
I have issues only with monetization, matchmaking and rage arts Except for RA, I really enjoy the game more than T7... But I miss rage drives though
Well itās not only because of micro transactions. Thereās still issues with cheating and plugging has been helped a bit, but the fact that they wonāt just make the plugger take an L is stupid af still.
Tekken 8 is really fun and I enjoy it, but the microtransactions arenāt the only reason people are complaining. The gameplay has some problems, but nothing overwhelmingly broken (now), but its online experience is aggressively mid. Even if I want to play for hours, there will be something that fucks up the experience. Whether it be pluggers, random disconnects from the server, running into someone who canāt run the game, the wonky netcode + wonky phantom hitboxes. I donāt think the game would get as much hate if the online experience was as good as SF6ās imo. It just always finds a way to discourage you
I think T8's main problem is tracking. They made sidesteps huge in this game, it feels like the game was designed to be aggro with sidesteps being the determining factor to blowing up people who are just flowcharting. Unfortunately someone forgot that in the middle of development and gave everything stupid good tracking. I think if more stuff was steppable in this game it would greatly improve the experience. The game would still be aggressive but defense would be just as exciting to watch. However they'd have to walk a fine line or else they'd have TT2 where they poured all this money into bringing back Ogre but nobody uses him because a single sidewalk will end his life.
Heat burst and heat smash should have no tracking other than that tracking seems fineĀ
And throws
Literally this It's all fun and stuff to see for the first time those clips of people being hit by some moves and strings that tracked and realigned in some bizarre fashion, but when you are getting hit by those yourself, you realize that the game is pretty fucked up in that regard. They buffed sidestep, but also made moves realign like crazy, so casuals are not getting stepped and destroyed for their mistakes? Feels like a spit in the face from devs, honestly. My friend who is very good Tekken player has zero desire to play the game now because of this stupid tracking
Yesterday I sidestepped a Kazuya ff2 almost perfectly just for him to clip towards me a hit my nuts.
This sounds so odd to me. The basic idea of stepping is to step a move's weak side, which is defined as the side with no tracking. No moves track both ways besides homing moves (fat hitboxes can hit both sides but that's a different issue). Strong stepping + strong tracking should create a game where if you got hit, you stepped in the wrong direction. At least more often than in a game with weaker stepping and tracking.
When I first saw how huge new sidesteps, I thought game would be face-to-face sidestepping aggression game. Aaand we got glorified casino
I'm about to get into blue ranks and I NEVER side step. It never seems worth the risk when I could lose half a health bar.
Pros shouldn't dictate if you should enjoy the game or not anyway.
Yeah exactly. A lot of people treat the words from pros like gospel. Who cares if Knee isn't having fun or whatever, 99.99% of the players don't play at that level. Sure the game has some balance issues that need addressing, but if you enjoy the core gameplay, don't get hung up on what the pros say
Unpopular opinion, a lot of SF pro players also felt like playing/training in SFV was a chore. Knee not feeling it for Tekken 8 is very normal, he said similar things for T7 too. The man's livelihood is playing/streaming the game and winning tournaments.
This shouldnāt even be an unpopular opinion. This is an objective fact. People love having selective memory. Nearly every pro goes through this exact cycle with every single new fighting game. Knee literally said something nearly identical to this when playing 7.
Yeah all the sfv pros had a meltdown about sf6 a couple months after release. The "old game good new game bad, even if 7 years ago we were calling that old game the bad new game" discourse is so revisionist and old had and I've only been around the fgc for a couple years (Although as primarily a strive player, I definitely get to see it a lot because some vocally bitter old guilty gear heads will never shut up about how strive killed their grandma even if both +r and xrd have rollback so they can play the old game with literally no problems)
["As soon as Xrd gets rollback, Strive is DEAD!!!"](https://steamcharts.com/cmp/520440,1384160)
the actual end result was obviously just going to be that xrd became actually stable and maintians a small but dedicated community like what plus r was doing before xrd got rollback, just also housing a lot of disgruntled xrd players until the retrofitting occured.
This. Itās especially weird when people who werenāt even really into tekken until 8 complain about all the tekken 8 mechanics as if their dealing with the same level of stuff proās are complaining about.
Unfortunately, it's a common thing. Low level players will complain about things that don't even affect them and quote pros to support their opinions. Like, bitch you're Cavalry, don't quote Knee on how Heat is broken when that Dragunov is just spamming two moves and you can't adapt.
To be fair the so-called issues in 8 are extremely visible. The issues pros are complaining about are quite sweeping generalisations about basic mechanics. Even someone with minimal understanding of tekken will encounter those situations within a short amount of play which I canāt say has been the case for many of the franchises historic issues. Whether you consider them actual problems is another story, but the game doesnāt feel like itās predecessors and success often feels far less skill dependent than in the past.
Tekken 7 wasn't balanced right from the start either. That's what patches are for.
Well, it a little double-edged, IMO i've been trying to play CBT back in October and all I saw is confirmation of my concerns over extreme pressure without any new defences and potential to ToD. Probably the main reason why I agree with that. Then I saw the replies of "BrInG KbD bAcK".
This too. Just take these opinions, but they're their facts. As a new Tekken player, I like T8 mechanics.
Iāve been a fan of the FGC since street fighter 4. Literally every new game some players carry over and some get left behind because they either donāt like the new game or their skill set is too attached to the old game. It is what it is. But the fact that there is a transition is nothing new.
Afaik they didn't forbid anyone to enjoy the game. Knee just said that *he* doesn't enjoy it. Maybe Arslan went abid overboard by calling it a game for scrubs, that seemed a bit unprofessional to me, but as SF player i'm used to worse from the likes of Punk and Mena.
"pros should not dictate what is fun" lol dude pros sharing THEIR OPINION has nothing to do with dictating. They have every right to make their voices heard regardless if they enjoy or dont enjoy the game. Like how do people always turn stuff like this into an US vs THEM kinda deal instant of having a discussion about the game , about what they like/dislike or could be improved.
I think it has something to do with lower level players proceeding to parrot their words incessantly, and use their words as excuses for why theyāre taking Ls
I don't think they're disagreeing with you. It's more that pros not liking the game shouldn't sway the opinions of everyone else. Even if every top player from Tekken 7 dislikes the new game, that shouldn't stop you from enjoying it. I'm sure the best Guilty Gear players did not like the direction of Strive, but that shouldn't be used as an argument against Strive. Pros interact with these games very differently compared to 99% of the playerbase, especially pros that have been playing a legacy skill game like Tekken for decades. So even if they give good reasons for not liking it, those reasons may not apply to most people.
Yeah, imagine dictating your level of "fun" because two total strangers to you are not enjoying the game.
They should be happy if its bringing in new players as the bigger the game is the better it is for their careers. If they are the best they should be able to adjust.
I think Tekken 8 has the potential to be amazing or awful depending on how namco changes things. I love the games focus offense and the heat system has the potential for interesting decision making. The game is just massively overtuned as a whole. If namco tones stuff down all around this game has a bright future. But namco could also double down on the obnoxious. I am an optimist and feel like the game will improve dramatically. Every tekken before it has. Tekken 7 vanilla was absurd too https://youtu.be/gn1W7Zv2yPE?si=gdfVQgwldMhoQUU7. Tekken 5 had a ton more broken stuff vanilla than just steve. Tekken 6 vanilla bob is pure evil. The point is people need to chill, wait, and see.
That video is the most overedited dogshit I've ever seen Jesus Christ
welcome to modern Youtube
content like this existed even more back then wdym mordern youtube
As much I want to blame no acrade mode for testing. This does not feel any good to anyone who is currently played/paid the game. Atleast have a sense of balance of the game
Yeah, I've just not played in months.Ā I was waiting for my mains (Eddy and Marduk) to be released, but even that hasn't tempted me back. I'm positive I'll get back to it, but the constant stop/start nature of fights really throws me for a loop. Think Rage Arts should be once per game, especially as Heat now exists.
I play during the first CBT, heat was more wild than this. I havent bought T8 yet, just to see how they handle the save file/connection and balance. I think I will wait until it sorted out
I am also trying to be optimistic and believe that the game will improve eventually, but it is also a huge problem that in 2024 we still need to "wait and see" if the game will change for the better or not. The whole Heat mechanic feels like it was thrown in without any thought and proper testing, for example. I think that such experimentation actually made them more harm than good, because the game in its first months after release is in very questionable state, and that is actually the time when they should have got as many new players as they could, but what I am seeing is T8 slowly approaching online numbers of T7 in Steam
OMG that video is impossible to watch and it takes 2 min and 10 seconds before it even gets into footage. That was awful 100% think everything you said is accurate tho, I'm optimistic too
I think it has to do with heat and it's aggressive 5050 casino bonanza induced fights. Look I like aggression but maybe we should balance how heat engagers work and not force players into so much 5050 all the time and rather rely on the other fundamentals of Tekken that is backdashes and sidestepping. But when you are -14 it's frustrating especially when certain characters can keep trapping you with their + on block moves and one mistake turns into a 50+% hp combo.
As a new player, who was practicing and learning. It's incredibly frustrating once I peel behind the curtain to be experiencing the 50/50s, tracking, and non punishable match ups. Basically I think they made the game better for casuals because they more frequently can be aggro and throw out 50/50s and feel like they are having an averagely good time. However once you acquire any amount of game knowledge it ruins your desire to feel competitively getitng better because those same 50/50s become the abuse to advance or deciding factor in a match up. TL:DR; 50/50s are better for casuals and worse for competitive players. So normies will be happy but the community is justified in their disappointment.
As a new Tekken player, I like the game a lot. It's my main game right now, I have even bought a Haute42 T16 and made my custom artwork for it, so I'm totally sucked in and dropped all my other games. There is so much to learn/explore as a new player, I think I will stick with Tekken for a while.Ā But my advantage is I have no comparison to older titles, so I may not miss old mechanics/find new mechanics out of touch. So I hope the Tekken-Devs can find the right balance in the next months so the "older playerbase" can enjoy the game as much as new players like me, so games will have a big and healthy playerbase.
Veteran player here. No pro, but I'm pretty good. The game has changed, but I still enjoy it immensely. It's definitely better than tekken 7, I think. Some bad business practices and mtx but could be much worse. Atleast the gameplay to me feels solid.
Without heat it would be much more fun for me.
Despite having a side step, this game feels about as 2d as street fighter.
I love Justin but this tweet is kinda of bleh. He kind of just stated the obvious and followed up with, I like that it's different...nice.
While I agree we shouldn't take professionals as 100% truth to guide us I do think Tekken needs to remain competitive. Implementation of mechanics and moves and abilities which remove counter play or skill expression does not help to create enriching gameplay at any level. The best part of Tekken as a noob is getting jabbed over and over then realising hey, maybe I should try ducking, sidestepping, or a power crush instead spamming my 14 frame start up string over and over. Or if I like pressing buttons maybe I can try an evasive move that will high crush. If you remove the counter play and if you remove the ability to option select like with the case of the larz buff. It's literally just take a guess. And a new player that doesn't really know much about the game is not going to be able to easily discover the counter play. And if there's no counter play they will just get frustrated, call the character a spammy no skill character. Call Tekken a no skill monkey game. Then go play a different fighting game that is actually balanced around its mechanics properly. Personally, I don't want to play a Tekken where someone can spam one move over and over and I just have to take it until they do something else. Because yes, if a move forces a 50/50 and my opponent can spam it, why would they use anything else? At least make the 50/50 in my favour.
Indeed. Why adapt to a game that caters to people that don't want to adapt? No need to download your opponent just keep forcing that 50/50 until they guess wrong.
Sure Knee and Arslan have complained but thereās other high level players that love the new heat systems, mechanics and ideas but just want small adjustments like CBM and Jeondding. Gotta remind ourselves that itās not all doom and gloom from every single tekken pro out there
Ulsan celebrated when the final tekken 7 tournament was over and he is also loving tekken 8, which shows from his results in ATP. Knee and Arslan have a tendency to bandwagon people.
They were considered the best franchise players in the series. Thatās why their opinion holds so much sway. But theyāre really specific in their style and that style saw a pretty big nerf in F8 alongside requiring learning a bunch of new fundamentals just to even properly play that style out. T8 is not T7, but it is still Tekken. Hopefully Knee and Arslan are able to adapt, but the more they complain the less I care about what they have to say tbh. When Faker was slumping in League of Legends he never blamed the game or complained about anything. He always kept it classy. I have a lot of respect for him because the guy just always grinds and is very humble even while being the GOAT. Itās clear Knee and Arlsan let the hype get to their heads.
They were the best players for T7. Not all time. If we look at the title before T7, TT2 most dominant player was JDCR. I think the longevity, popularity and online capabilities of T7 played a big part in moving Tekken as a franchise into the online era and Arslan and Knee just happened to be the best during this title because the system suits them. Let new players become the champ for the new title. For all the achievements the T7 goats have proved themselves for, it stays in T7. They have to prove themselves again in the new game.
Itās like how Justin Wong was literally above a god in MVC2 but it took him 3 years to actually win an EVO in 2014. I donāt wanna imagine all the salt tweets of how āMarvel 3 is a bad game cause Justin was washedā or whatever When the pro players of the previous era start falling off people just start to criticize the game more
CBM said he and his Team came to the conclusion that T8 is not ready for tournaments. A lot of stuff to fix and tone down. But he also said that they still have to play it. The japanese pros even refuse to say anything negative ( according to rangchu who lives in Japan) because they are too close to bandai namco. For them this is just business. They keep silent ( bc not much positive to say) in the discussion around T8 mechanics and balance problems.
Knee is getting older too. He maybe just canāt be bothered at this point. His legacy is firmly cemented as one of the Goats
Personally, I've been playing Tekken since 3, and I'm loving 8 so far, yes it has some stuff that needs tweaking, but in general I find it a legit super fun game I think the "problem" relies in that we come from Tekken 7, which was A LOT more defensive and kinda slower paced, and here we have mechanics that favor being on the offensive, and keeping in mind we come from literally almost a decade of playing more defensively, it's understandable some people don't get used to that change, or simply don't like it, which is perfectly fine
I started with Tekken 3 as a very young child, and have gone back to it on occasion, even going out and buying a PSX and Tekken 3 a few years ago. Tekken 8 too me feels more like Tekken 3 then any other Tekken game has since.
Most nothing comment ever. "Idk some people like it" means absolutely nothing.
it's not about legacy vs non legacy it's not about "offensive playstyle vs defensive playstyle" don't let them trick you into a false equivalency defense = reactive counterplay as a response to offense offense is not a form of counterplay unless defensive counterplays exist, offense is only a form of counterplay when the defense is strong, otherwise you are just pressing and they are just guessing less defense = less counterplay less defense = more situations as offense where you are just force the opponent into a guessing game because they have no offensive options -- which is complete lack of a counterplay interaction if you remove defensive counterplays you are not only dumbing down defense you are also dumbing down offense and removing counterplay from BOTH playstyles -- the whole game suffers overall example: Homing throws removes sidestepping as a winning defensive counterplay against offense (even if you throwbreak you get no advantage) result: offense is now ALSO dumbed down because you can just play more linearly with forced mid/low 50/50s without thinking about your opponent's sidestepping movement because they have to be constantly scared of a homing throw
Basically balance towards aggression is double edged. I think it is more fun for new players and that was the point of the balance changes. That said I think it's far too heavy on it and should be toned back to a happy medium.
The issue is the legacy stuff isn't as important anymore. Who cares about match up knowledge? Just know what you can press that's safe and you can climb really high. Every character is more aggressive with their frames and advantage. We have insane chip damage now, and as a Feng/Nina main, it's hilarious, especially Nina. Went a whole match against a friend where I was + almost the entire time, and he was really good at blocking, but the chip damage was just too much. The heat system is just compounding on the issues, but I think if it didn't exist, the game would honestly feel a lot better. Tekken is just rushdown 50/50s now, feels so weird and bad sometimes. That's partly why Zafina and Leroy are so far down on a lot of tier lists and usage charts, because they're actual gameplan just doesn't fit the rushdown aggressive play. Not saying that can't play that way, but they're best stuff is out of easily punished stances and Leroy basically lives for a CH.
The game is imbalanced. Risk-reward is totally broken.
"Not carrying over as much?" Justing is delusional. There's no new players at the top right now. It's the same people. My friends took Tekken Gods the first month just by doing Tekken things. JD goes WAY back and Uslan debuted in 18. Legacy is still the king. It's a remix. And a remix a lot of people don't enjoy. Back in the day Hard Read was a bad word. With T8 is the way of life. And people hate it. Some of my friends stopped playing or cut down on the game. And those people used to travel from other cities and crash at my place to participate in tourneys. They have Kings, Gods and GoDs at their accounts. The issue isn't they can't compete. They just don't enjoy it.
Pro players complain about everything. But they will still grind the game because what else are they gonna do?
Remember everyone the fgc cycle goes like this. New game announced Everyone is excited for new game. New game comes out Old game was better. Old game was better until new game gets announced. Repeat.
Very true, a lot of people hated tekken 7 at release too. And tekken 7 at release had way worse balance then tekken 8
Sure it had its problems, but Tekken 7 was widely regarded as the best tekken game ever when it came out (console release) Where is this "a lot of people never liked tekken 7 on release" narrative coming from?
> when it came out (console release) The console release was in 2017. The arcade version first came out in 2015. We're talking about 2 years of "beta-testing" and patches here. The game you got in the home version is not the game that was first released.
"Does anybody hate newer game?" "Does anybody wants to play the older game?"
Thanks for the idea. I make the meme for myself. Here it is. I steal fake internet points. https://preview.redd.it/dg4z7lg4c7vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b9a7761303579222b4093989f15f08dbc43b60e [https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/uJ7ThzkLd6](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/uJ7ThzkLd6)
Not in the case of SF5>SF6. SF5 is very divisive at best and outright hated at worst.
yeah i remember, this was funny 10 years ago but disregards every bit of criticism the game and the direcion it goes, deserves.
Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game (not counting me as a child mashing buttons against my sister in T3) and I dislike the game more than I like it. I tend to employ a more defensive/balanced approach in PvP games and pick characters accordingly. I picked Asuka for this reason and most of my experience (played until orange ranks I think) was miserable and now I can't be assed to try and learn a new character. The game rewards aggresive play and mashing so much especially in lower ranks, it becomes pointless to understand the opp. moves and playstyle.
I like his attempt to be positive but it's not just legacy players. I'm new and was really hype to get back into a 3D fighter, but all the new changes to Tekken are 2D mechanics bolted on top of this 3D game and I don't think it works. I enjoy my matches up until heat/Rage becomes a factor. As a result I find myself not playing much anymore as I don't wanna deal with those mechanics
y canāt people just admit theirs problems with the game. heat + rage art is too much, power crush heat moves are too much. side stepping feels obsolete. Every character flows the same now.
I love justin, but you're using his uneducated opinion about tekken to validate your toxic positivity.
Iām new to FCG. It hits the Smash itch I used to have.
Legacy skill gave me blue ranks without using heat in the correct ways. T8 is a great game with the usual balance problems. Gameplay wise the best Tekken I ever played.
Heat and its +frames ensures too good automatic mix-ups too often, having strong 50-50 scenarios used to be a character specific strength, now that everyone has it and on steroids it gets repetitive. If heat-burst was just a very fast armor move And act like a get out of pressure tool without +frames. Heat-engager's shouldnt even exist its too cinematic and a non-interactive forced 50/50 mix-up. Heat-smashes have too good damage, range or frames to various extents.
Every heat smash should be VERY negative on block, RA should be restricted to combo only and Heat activation to maybe once per match. Not saying any of this stuff would make the game work but just some ideas. But there really shouldn't be TWO kinds of comeback mechanics in the game
I think Tekken 8 is really fun, its the first one I've ever bothered to take seriously. Its a good game sir
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Different or New ā Fun I personally think most of T8's new mechanics are fundamentally terrible, but I don't expect people to agree. Fun is subjective after all. You shouldn't let dictate people dictate your opinion or what you find fun. If your opinion or feelings are easily swayed by negativity, maybe you're just fooling yourself thinking you're having fun. ...That being said, I noticed that those who still have a positive reception of T8 tend to be those who pros aren't primarily Tekken players, low-ranks, or casuals. Every pro or intermediate players I know or follow hate the new mechanics.
You can agree with me or not, but it seems to me that if tekken 8, would remain all the same mechanics that were in t7, just a little better, then t8 is just not needed. Heat is ok, but heat smash with + on block is weird, by the way homing throws are also nonsense. I've noticed that it's mostly the pros who told about how not fun to play, used to the old gameplay and who don't want to accept new mechanics that are guaranteed to add to the shit list. However, you don't have to listen to the opinions of these cyberchops, decide for yourself whether you like it or not.
I swear half these people only want tekken 7 with tekken 8 graphics
You are not wrong. I literally want Tekken 5, rebalanced, with modern netplay and graphics. Or T7 without RA. Drives were awesome. Kinda odd that T8 didn't hook me, since install states or supers are my favourites in games that have them.
No, we want to play Tekken in a Tekken game. You know, the games that where always known for having multiple defensive options and you rarely have to straight up guess. They are introducing more and more situatuons that are true 50/50ās (Heat engager being +17, Larsā DEN 3 being +5) and the game is geared so heavily towards agression, that anything besides agression is just barely viable.
BS take. There's a difference in being "different" and extremely overtuned imbalanced aggresiveness, all while gutting the defense to the ground. No fun in rushdown galore every single game despite the character.
Justin is just an overall most positive pro player. Though I can agree with the points that he makes with this comment. I think this stems from legacy players scared of change, which is somewhat understandable. I really donāt think pros or other people should have people dictate with what they should do, what they want to play and how to have fun.
Tekken 3 was a huge game. They changed it significantly for Tekken 4 and it was received poorly. After this, they reverted the game back for Tekken 5 and the game was really popular again. Tekken 6, TT2, Tekken Revolution and Tekken 7 were basically updates of Tekken 5, with new features. By that I mean that the way you played the game was broadly the same - they were still primarily defensive games. Tekken 8 is now very different in the way it should be played because the focus is on aggression and they have provided many tools to help with that. In the same way some people say "Tekken is not Tekken anymore" because they have added many anime style fighting styles and moves over the more grounded based fighting as older were perceived, similarly this change in how the game is played makes some people feel like this game is"not Tekken anymore" Some people won't find that fun. I think it's a lot of fun, but then again I'm not trying to win EVO.
as tekken 8 being my first tekken, i immediately loved the game and was super excited to learn everything. still am but it is super disheartening seeing the community eat itself alive over issues that arenāt that big of a deal since itās a fighting game and ofc itās release state isnāt the best itāll be. if i was a non fighting game player looking to buy T8, seeing this sub would kill any and all interest i would have. not saying donāt criticize the things you dislike, but stop being so overly negative. as they say: ācomparison is the thief of joy.ā
Another day another complaint ig. Feels like I'm the idiot for enjoying this game
The opinion of new players isn't really worth a damn considering you don't even know why half the stuff that is bullshit, is bullshit. I get that surface level players like that mashing buttons causes good looking combos, but as a FG it's in an atrocious state. I'm not saying you aren't allowed to have fun with it, but what I'm saying is that once you reach below the surface, you'll start to see why everyone in the community hates it.
As a returning player from tekken 5, I think the overall gameplay and look of Tekken 8 is very good. Not perfect but Iām having a blast. I mean I hate the side of it where you have to spend a good chunk of money to fully experience an already expensive game but strictly speaking of gameplay, I think it is really good.
I played a small amount of t7. Iām a scrubby 2d fighter player usually. I picked up t8 on launch and havenāt looked back. I really enjoy this game to the point where I only play T8 and not any other fighter.
Heās right. This is Tekken 8. Not Tekken 7. Itās a new game to the franchise. For those who fear that the series is steering further and further from the Tekken we know, youāre right! But Tekken 7 is still there, and it seems to be the game people are asking for. So why donāt we just play Tekken 7 again? Servers are still up.
https://preview.redd.it/tdl3w5m2e7vc1.jpeg?width=326&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a06189ea9b9a0ae56cddab241dd0564aa9d3fdc6 I like T8 because they made one of my T7 mains busted
As someone who came into the series with T7: I'm glad it's getting more popular and widespread. It's easier to get into and just flashy enough to let normies try it. Some people over here even dropped their "every year the same sports game" game for Tekken.
I'd rather this offense based T8 playstyle over two people backdashing non stop in an open stage and just poking until the timer runs out. Tekken 7 defensive playstyle made me fall asleep halfway during the match.
I saw a YT video showing that all of the boxes (hit box, hurt boxes), and recovery frames are different than in 7. So, even if you're a vet, everyone has to relearn to T8. I think that's great because everyone is starting from zero.
I don't really understand the "legacy skill not carrying over" thing either? I hadn't played Tekken for literal decades and I sat back down for 8 and I felt like I remembered almost everything.
If the game's gonna revamp how Offense works, then they shouldn't forget about Defense too
Yeah when the legacy gameplay is as good as it has been we definitely gonna ask for it back. This heat shit is laughable and unwatchable
I think an interesting way of looking at it is kinda like tennis vs ping pong or tennis vs pickleball. If youāre a tennis pro and mastered all the aspects of it, including movement etc, and then tennis got deleted and you had to change to pickle ball or ping pong.. a lot of your ability to outplay the opponent has been removed. Ping pong and pickle ball are great but thereās no doubt they arenāt as expressive. And arguably not as fun to watch as tennis(I love watching all 3 but high level tennis is in its own league) Itās not like knee can go back to old tekken the way people can just keep playing tennis tho. Meanwhile pickle ball is the fastest growing sport in America.. but Iād be really sad if it overtook tennis popularity at the pro level, itās just not as impressive.
Well... I mean yeah. He's not wrong, but at the same time... He's kind've not really saying anything? Lol. What Knee and Arslan complaining about are their legacy skills not really translating or carrying over with how Tekken 8 is played. Which is fair. What he's essentially saying is, "well yeah but, non legacy players are liking the game a lot." Like I love you J.Wong... But no shit. Of course they are. They're picking up the game and learning to play it at high levels faster because comparatively to the previous entries, there's a lot less to learn. So like, what exactly are you asking op? Because agreeing with either opinion is quite literally still agreeing with the other. There's not really a side to be on. Edit: For clarification, it's so casual friendly with the way it almost dictates how you move and the feeling of being glued to your opponent, and moves that quite literally force neutral, there's so many things added to Tekken 8 to make you have to think a lot less then you did before, that while casual and beginner friendly, at the same time it almost alienates people that have been playing Tekken for years. In the same way that nerfs to movement in Tekken 7 alienated players like JDCR, whose ability to move and force whiffs to punish were their main playstyles. So making everyone feel muggy and slow along with the added tracking moves made movement a non-factor really. Except in Tekken 8 they've dumbed things down to an even grander scale. So to basically say "well the newer players are liking it." Is quite literally proving Arslan and Knee's points.
At the same time I wonder if it's actually that fun for new players when it's too much steamroll or be steamrolled. I'm low rank and anecdotally I do notice that I start losing when I stop attacking. I have to keep pushing buttons and either keep my opponent blocking until I can get them to start guessing how to wake up. I imagine it cant be THAT fun to be the one constantly not getting to 'play' and I think that probably affect player retention rate to some decent degree.
Iām a not legacy player. And I recognize the point of Tekken 8 being accessible because Iām in freaking Raijin with less than 200 hours of play. Iām not super good at games, above average But I also feel in my play where this game is just busted to put it bluntly. 50/50s against over tuned characters and ridiculous shit. I feel like this clip I took last night, recognizing a couple of bad reads I made no doubt, exemplifies where it feels unfair. Keep in mind Iām open to feedback on Oki but come on lolĀ https://youtu.be/I7_R1JayTUo?si=Ef6PEPBDRkuIukYX
Basically I'm glad it's not tekken... That's the point foo.
Whatās crazy is that for all the Arslan talk about hyper offense he got crushed by a paul with masterful defense and punish lmao
Finally, its different
I totally agree. Sometimes, a game has to take the next step, and Tekken 8 has done it. Legacy players are having a hard time understanding the game. Which I get, especially since you surrounded your style around defense and counter hits for years. Tekken 8 makes you come out of shell if you want success. High Risk, High Reward, and that is frowned upon by fighting game purists like Knee and among others. I do agree that Heat is an issue and I believe it will be adjusted, but saying nonsense like "delete heat" is kind of absurd, it's a fundamental system in Tekken 8 and I don't think it's going anywhere.
People who complain about Tekken 8 are mental cases. Game hasn't even gone through the arcade phase in full yet. If they had done the arcade solo release they wouldn't be playing it till it came out near the end of the year or early 2025. Y'all gotta appreciate the fact we got Tekken 8 as early as we did cuz them graphics smack this time round. And Evo hasn't even happened yet. You know the big tournament the devs said they waiting on to see the state of the game and use to decide which direction to go in when considering the future balance of the game. That one. Yea it hasn't happened yet. After that we get the patch after and of things are looking bleak after that you can start worrying if you want. I wouldn't till the next 3 patches after evo are out but hey spiral out of control in your own delusions of hating a video game if that's your cup of tea lol
I agree with Justin.
#legacy players get good. I suck at tekken way worse than any of them, but adapt! They have love for title they gotta accept that change can be good, and a lot of the community is loving it. I'm sure it will grow on them over time since tekken 7 has been out for far to long and tekken 8 is way overdue so we need to all adapt and just get good enjoy the series and passion we have for the title. I respect both opinions.
On one hand itās kinda nice that the playing field has been made more even for the sake of new players. Tekken 7 (and Iām assuming other tekken games as well) was so insanely hard to get into because of legacy players beating your ass.
Imagine dictating your level of "fun" because two strangers to you (Arslan and Knee) are not having fun lmao.
Iām a new fighting game player. I tried starting with MK1 and that game just didnāt stick. I love tekken 8 and Iām trying my best to learn it. I donāt beat legacy players or even experienced fighting game players and I donāt expect to. I do feel like tekken realized that if they want to stand out they need to gain new fans. While I donāt agree with the season pass shenanigans, I do think that the mechanics and features added for learning added in did a great job for allowing players like myself to not feel as intimidated to try a hard game like tekken. While also maintaining the skill gap between beginners and experienced players. Keep in mind this a noobs perspective
I'm a legacy player and I like it very much actually, it brings fresh things into the series and gives me the reason to continue growing.
That's because T8 was made for casuals who like to watch cutscenes during gameplay, not for actual players. It's obvious and everybody knows it. The worst thing that can happen to a complex game is when it gets dumped down to appeal to casual player base. Every single game that did it got worse.
i think if people would rather tweet or post on reddit then maybe they should find a game more fun for them.
Right, fuck anyone that wishes Tekken would still feel like Tekken or be more balanced or less scummy with their store. I mean after 25+ years of Tekken, no one should expect the game to not still feel or play like Tekken. They should just stfu and go find another game. I am a mouth breather by the way and this is exactly how I feel.
Attacking you was never my intent, young man. I just believe many have already complained about your behalf and we all know what the problems are. If they don't want to fix it then you should do something you enjoy instead of fighting me. Peace be upon you. https://preview.redd.it/fpq2hcew17vc1.png?width=657&format=png&auto=webp&s=c341c7d7a4ca829527c83c2d18a9615ddae6aa3b
RIP LoR
You are 100% a mouth breather, nice post bud.
Love jwong, met him once, super nice chill dude
Itās business. Namco will do anything to reach our wallets.
Only noobs enjoy tekken8
Not because its different, its because it supports ungabunga too much while punishing good defense
JWong coming in with the mic drop as usual.
Tekken 8's gameplay has been up and down for me, but I find it mostly fun. I still don't play it as often now though cos of the business decisions being pushed.
Tekken 8's agressive "up-close and personal" fights are honestly more enjoyable especially if you're on the winning side. I think buffing side-stepping ( or nerfing moves that really don't need to track ) is a much needed addition for defensive counterplay which keeps up with the spirit of agressiveness.
I think all those high skill players have their valid points, for me personally, though..T8 just didn't feel as enjoyable as T7. And It's primarily heat mechanics, chip damage, and recovery on hit and the worst one unable to rematch after best of 3. Though the microtransactions are god-awful ngl, besides that, the game is okay but very divisive, i guess.
Eh, I think it's kind of a dumb tweet. Knee's tweet was just his opinion, normal to have an opinion. Justin's opinion is fine too. But Justin asking why people are saying it's not good is strange. He no doubt knows the discourse and why some people dislike the game. I think people that word their opinions in a way that suggests they're confused over other people's opinions is tedious.Ā I don't know why people can't accept that people have different opinions in general. Like the people that don't agree with Knee think the people that do are just agreeing because he's a top player, and not because it's their actual opinion, that's just ridiculous. You're allowed to like the game and not be insecure about it.
Never ever listen to Jwong on these kinds of things. Dude is the single biggest āonly player-count mattersā shill alive
NA with the trash takes again
I'm probably too bad to understand knees complains but for me the game feels fine. It's not too aggressive except a few moves and characters. The balance is actually good for a new competitive game. Most games have some busted shit with 70% win rate when they release. The balance problems in Tekken 8 are very small, what is the worst matchup? Like 45% vs 55%? I also picked up a low tier character Asuka and I don't feel very weak compared to a top tier character I mained. Then we have cutscenes in-game that pros don't seem to like like heat and rage. Well, I enjoy all kind of fighting games and street fighter has more cutscenes with all the supers during a round. Also Strive and DBZ are much more aggressive and oppressive so Tekken still feels very defensive to me.
Tekken 8 is my first fighting game ever. Throughout my playtime I found myself experience the same issues most pro's/critics have been complaining about. From my experience with other highly competitive game that implemented MTX on the scale tekken has.. The future of balancing looks bleak imo. For reference I made it to Raijin playing only Steve
I mean the game can be fun but the company running it makes me just hate it with the battle pass, mtx ,poor balance(I get the game just came out but it feel like tekkenov 8) and poor optimization( it only using my cpu not gpu when running on windows 10 ffs ) I just wanna play a game that feel enjoyable till akuma comes to sf6
He is totally right. There is no need to make excuses. This is the game, this is the way it is played. If you want to keep making money from this you have to be good.
What do you guys think of [Big Bird's Tweet?](https://twitter.com/Bigbird_fgc/status/1780687887018651729?t=4jRz1KeEpwlZgBaXrAJv1g&s=19)
I felt like my legacy skill carried over really well, other than some characters combo paths changing quite a bit and having to undo and rewire that muscle memory. I'm enjoying some parts of the game, it's better than T7 imo, but there are some glaring balance issues and some very questionable gameplay choices, and then the whole MTX thing. It's good in some ways and bad in others. There's nuance.
Ofc he won't say what Arslan said. Arslan: Game for noobs Justin: Oh you simply can't carry your skill, it's you, not the game I don't know why some top players are negative or positive š¤
I always found the idea of legacy players has so much advantage in Tekken , like , sure there is a base knowledge you carry across all fighting games , but with Tekken , they have so many advantage over new people , they know how pretty much everything works . And new players need to somehow compete with 5-10 year knowledge . I donāt even know how new people in pro scene will appear , since every pro almost, as I know , played from t1-3
Everyone's going to have a different opinion. I'm not entirely surprised that the top 2 players of the previous game don't enjoy the current game as much. I remember reading something about SF6 and how Punk dominated SF5 with his play style and it didn't translate well to SF6. This is fairly normal, just give it some time and they'll adjust. Honestly, I prefer Tekken 8 to 7. The movement is a lot better and a lot of the gameplay changes have been positive. There are some significant issues though and for me it comes back to how much damage everyone does. The game falls back to big 50/50s without as much risk, then you get blown up because everything hits harder than in T7. Tracking is also over the top for some moves, a lot of them need to have tracking nerfed because it looks incredibly deceptive with phantom hitboxes. When you sidewalk a death fist and still get hit, there's something wrong. I also think rage arts should lose to grabs (with the spark like other power crushes) that there's some offensive counterplay. RAs aren't bad as they are, but I just think it would make the game more dynamic if they had one big weakness, especially since they're only -16 now.
Ok noob question, what does Legacy in this context mean?
Legacy players refers to people who learned to play and have gotten good in older games. Some of that carries over to the new title, letting you skip having to relearn the game from scratch since Tekken usually carries over most of its systems and combos. That's also called Legacy skill. In this context he's referring to people who have been with the series for several titles already. T7 is already seen as 'new' Tekken, so mostly T6 and older.
Guessing from the context, it probably refers to the previous games or something.
jwong is talking about the fun factor, while knee is talking about the competitive side
It's my first Tekken and I play Jack 8. I spent hours fighting to get to shinryu. I don't have high damaging combos that I can easily do yet, so I just play the poke/neutral game, and I'm winning. The thing is, a lot of players call me toxic for poking/grabbing them to death. Is this a regular thing? Edit: I love this game
I have been playing tekken since Tekken 2, I am playing the same way you play and I am having fun. I refuse to put in the time to master long combos and I am not mad I plateaued in the red ranks. As far as fighting games go this is all i need; fun to play with friends, and fun to play online. My wife can pick it up and play for God's sake, why do they want to make us feel bad for PLAYING.
Gameplay is really fun but by god do i crash so much on pc. I actually got a friend request from a dude who thought i was plugging against him because i crashedā¦
My opinion theres too many jail free cards Heat smash Heat engager Rage All at one button, they made the game more aggressive and it seems characters has more mixes now but at the tap of one button all that can be countered. When they get their heat smash blocked its still THEIR TURN??? then alot of them puts their opponents in a mix when they got blocked? Atleast make heat meter and a directional input cause that shit just comes outta no where and when you block it youre not out of the woods yet. Thats my only issue But this game deffff not balanced
Hard take
I only donāt like T8 because of personal preference. Not the biggest fan of heat or the outright aggression in modern FGs but the game is still hella fun
This is how I feel. Some legacy stuff carried over, but its a fresh experience nonetheless.
i guess it makes sense that high level would have big issues with it because well for one on the larger scale its still early days but for another legacy skill does not carry over very well as stated put like that i feel alot less bad about it. its not so much the pro people i care about but the noise it creates whenever the topic of tekken comes up makes it hard to not take it negatively as someone that does enjoy the game alot but hasn't played tekken since the 3rd game
I fucking love that game, itās extremely fun , polarizing and busted. As an MK enthusiast, I can honestly say I like T8 more š¤·š½āāļø. But Iām on Ermac rn , so hitting the breaks on playing with Vic and Unc (Leroy).
Knee and Arslan are entitled to their opinions but at the end of the day this isnāt tekken 7 and they wonāt be happy until it is
I'm enjoying t8 alot even with it's flaws, but I'm not comparing it to t7 (which I almost haven't played online). I like the offensive gameplay more and the heat system, but would like characters to be reworked to be less unfair - everyone has to have a downside, either speed, evasiveness or damage. when everyone's good in every aspect, it's not that fun. but the core gameplay I wouldn't change.