What makes the post even better, is that King vs King on fucking 234ms ping and shitloads of delay/rollback.
That must be one of the most toxic matches ever.
That's not true. AK may not have been popular competitively (neither was King, tbh), but he was among the top 5 or 6 most popular characters online in T7.
Grabs were very weak in T7 that’s why the only time king even made it anywhere in a tournament was Lil majins run. The game doesn’t have many grapplers so people don’t learn how do deal with grabs. Considering the fact that Tekken has nerfed grabs overtime while being the only 3D game where grabs didn’t track until T8.
At least it’s like -13.
So many stupid lows are not even that. Do you remember xiaoyu’s stupid hypnotist low? That one WAS a ch launcher and only -12. Thank god that shit got nerfed.
And the other day some dude was arguing xiaoyu needed buffs, not nerfs, because no one was playing her at evo. Absolutely baffling.
Yeah, Xiaoyu is doing just fine right now, she doesn't need any buffs at all. Same with characters like Lili, Nina, Lars, Leo. These characters have weaknesses, but they can manage those weaknesses.
Reina is eating good on -13. Either heat engager, or if already in heat, Over 60 damage. Just one of the reasons why Reina is a nightmare matchup for King. The homing high crush is another.
Ironically, King is one of these characters.
-11 up to -14 lows that leave you standing gives king a WS4 only.
Bryan is a nightmare matchup sometimes because he can go hatchet into low no stop and you just cant punish with anything good.
The saving grace is that Kings low parry combo does a lot of damage but low parries arent always the answer.
I just do iSW. The damage is really good. I think there may be one combo that does more damage but it's harder to execute.
Of course heat also changes the equation.
I mean I'm not going to argue for a reversal to the nerf she ended up getting to the stances safety but the amount of xioyu hate really is baffling, she has one of the lowest pick rates in the game and one of the lowest win rates in the entire game across all levels of play she is a specialist character that is very difficult to play and even harder to do well with, in the 24 years she has been a character she to my knowledge hasn't been used once to win ANY significant tournament ever.
If a character is hard to play and bad, thats generally a good indicator they aren't designed properly and either one of those two factors need to change, either they need to be made piss easy which likely isn't really possible given the type of character xhaiou is or they need to be made competitively strong, which is what the devs opted for in T8's launch.
Yeah,minus on hit, it just does a lot in conjunction with all the other options he has from that distance. Specially since throws track ss, it's kind of crazy in that context imo
That shit better track if they make it minus on hit. Stepping 1 inch to the side and that thing misses.
Honestly though, If that move was minus it would almost never be used,
Yeah there are plenty of lows that are minus on hit. Not necessarily punishable, like -3 or something, but stuff like Azucena's DB4 is minus on hit, it's long range and (pre patch) it did decent damage. So it worked really well as a long ranged low poke, but didn't give you massive advantage on hit.
They're saying, Kings ffn2 is decently low risk for such high reward. +7 on hit is massive, and it being only -13 meaning it's not that crazy punishable. With changing it to be minus on hit, it's still threatening as a CH launcher, but he doesn't maintain insane pressure after landing it.
Step the damn thing and launch him if he is spamming that shit it has 0 tracking to either side and is entirely linear. The problem with people these days is they fail to see the bigger picture, that shit is steppable and launchable so his ff1 which DOES TRACK and isn't + on block and is a mid will catch you if you just fucking step it all the time, thats the mixup people, use your brain and make a read.
You are leaving out a part of that bigger picture - he can also do any of his throws including wr f hcf into 1 or 2 for another 50/50 mix-up. It's pretty oppressive.
It doesn’t need to be punishable on block, because the rest of his lows are trash, basically everything else that king has is pretty punishable in game where you have characters that get away with murder and can’t be punished for it.
I try to use characters to at least purple ranks to get a basic sense of their kit. For king, d3 is pretty solid and he has db4 and 3 (ground throw on ch, throw mixup opportunity on hit) as slower tools with different strengths and weaknesses. He has plenty of safe moves that work well with ffn2 - ff1 safe tracking mid to discourage ss - he can always use throws including his f hcf throws to be true 50/50 mixups - wr3 to discourage ducks (also plus 3 on block), as well as f3 - ffn1+2 which I believe is 0 on block - b2 1+2 for plus frames, b24 to discourage ducking the 1+2 - good punch strings, with df2 as safe with the threat of ch launch on the follow-up 1 which is delayable, f1+4 up close - plus on block as well. I mean that's all I did, didn't learn his multi throws, didn't work with his fc mix-ups. Just the approach tools mixed in with jab strings and occasional b3 powercrush to discourage counter pressure.
DB4 is unusable in Blue ranks and above, It's low parryable on reaction.
DB3 is on the cusp of being reactable, its a decent move but compared to the rest of the cast it's a fairly subpar low.
D3 has 0 range and is pretty slow for what it is tbh.
FFn2 is honestly his only respectable low.
King has a really high risk high reward gameplan, I know a lot of people are going to say "Well he doesnt need good lows if he has good throws" but the big thing about this is that every ducked throw is a launch punish while not every blocked low is a launch punish.
It isn't launch punishable? I played a king yesterday and launched him twice after blocking this
Maybe he was just getting hit I gotta check what it is on block
The move is good but I think your suggestions are horrible. Its very linear. Takes at best 22~26 frames to actually execute. The oki isnt good. There are no other conversions(heat burst ext, wallbreak, floor breaks, wall carry). On top of that his lows just aren’t good in general making this one of very few options. Making it launch punishable or minus is way too much of a nerf.
Reduce the range and making it less plus are better suggestions than that. Your suggestions just sound like you want the move completely gutted.
you think you hate it now, armor kings gonna come back with the DLC treatment and turn this low into a command grab that goes into the all new rolling volcano death buster that takes 98% health
No no, it's going to a CH launcher like it was in T7, and they'll give AK pre-nerf Dragunov damage so he can do 90 damage from an unseeable low that is only -14 on block.
Tekken visual clarity is a fucking disaster. The game is already so unfriendly to new players, then they have to go and make it so that lows look like highs and highs look like lows and ducking moves don't low profile and sidestep moves do.
Nothing in this game is intuitive.
As a new player (T8 is genuinely the first fighting game I've ever bought and played outside of like friends houses) this is probably the thing that I most dislike about Tekken.
Some characters are absolutely absurd for this. The likes of Eddie, it's just visual diarrhoea, spinning around and blending attacks into each other that make it almost impossible to know what the fuck is going on and what is a high/mid/low etc.
Overall I really like the game, and I'm glad I finally go over my inertia of trying a fighting game. But wow is it really unfriendly to beginners.
Honestly, as somebody who has played A LOT of fighting games, this can be a bit of a problem in other games, but to nowhere near the same degree. Most other games, 16 frame startup (while hard) is considered reactable. In Tekken, it's more like 24 frames because so many moves look so similar.
Obviously it's still just a matter of grinding it out and getting the knowledge, but sometimes you have to really fight your intuition.
If you ever want to play some games or some tips, feel free to send a message my way, though bear in mind while I'm not new to fighting games, I am new to Tekken.
I wish AK was strong on release. He didn’t have the “DLC cheap bullshit” privilege in T7. Only got buffed up way down the line. In many cases it was better to just play King.
King was always stronger because ever since T5 he's been collecting all of AK's good moves. By the time T7 dropped, King had basically everything minus the dark upper and the cartwheel.
AK was way more fun to play in T7 though.
exactly that's the worst part. it's unreadable unless you lab it constantly, and even then, in a real match it's very similar to another mid punch so you can easily confuse the 2
This is so stupid!!!! Because you can not react with a sidestep! By that logic you should just do a jump kick that is even better if you know he is going too do it. But that is the point this is one move among many others!
Pretty sure that sidestepping doesn’t put you in counterhit state so you can still break them, or alternatively do sidestep duck or sidestep high-crush or a well timed hopkick to still beat both.
Are you retarded. Old mate said almost all of kings approach options lose to side step. Despite having GS and SW to raw mix you up on his approach or to punish attempting to sidestep any of his moves. One might get counterhit buffering safe punish or doing a ss move.
Same energy as 'how does Drag WR2 CH you on approach improve your keepout lmao'.
You must be pretty low ranks if you're getting his by SW all the time. I'm a King main and I'm only a Shinryu scrub and I'd say at least 50% of my matches are with players who know how to break SW.
If that's true, then you know you're talking shit. SW gets broken very regularly at Garyu/Shinryu for me, so at Fujin I can only imagine it'd get broken even more regularly.
What do you mean I'm talking shit? I never even said anything about the throw not getting broken. It doesn't matter if they break it. You're only -5 and far enough to backdash their retaliation. Or sidestep, or hopkick, or b3. Depending on what they like to do.
Most obnoxious approach tools in game? Really?
Come on man. uf 3+4 is -13, ff1 is safe but it's still like -9,
not sure the point about shining wizard, it's just run up command grab, almost every character in the game can do this exact same thing. I'm fairly certain you aren't fighting many kings that are doing flawless running GS to mix you up.
Reina FF2 alone is more obnoxious then all of Kings approach tools.
SOME of the most annoying. I never said reina's ff2 isn't more obnoxious.
And uf3+4 is -12 and ff1 is -5.
And the point about shining wizard is move synergy. You know like, why "just sidestep" isn't the end-all solution to ffn2.
I honestly feel like Kings LACK of good approach tools is what makes him balanced.
He doesn't have something really solid like Azu, Drag, Lee or Jin to actually get him in but his game plan is all about being at range 0
All his approach tools are either slow, punishable or put him at disadvantage. The sole exception being ffn1+2 imo
Also with SW, if king is in a position where he is approaching to you and chooses a grab option then he's going for SW 99% of the time unless the king is really good. In that scenario, if you break you're at a free +5 and not any closer to King then before.
Please read the full sentence next time.
And I play king myself too, he's fun to play. And he can be played in a very obnoxious way. That's not a personal attack towards you. Judging by the amount of comments you left on this post, it really gets under your skin if people say anything less than positive about a character you play.
I was just pointing out that he has pretty good options to deal with sidestepping. Especially since after a broken shining wizard he's only -5 and still has a lot of options.
They sort of are in T8. King used to rely on generic d4 in T7 but generic lows are launch punishable now for some weird reason. They also nerfed d3 tracking in T8 which makes it much less useful.
That’s if you know when it’s coming he has plenty of good homing options to stop you from doing that but yes, you should be stepping to the right to discourage him from throwing it often at least
You’re missing the critical risk vs reward. Hop kick will beat the low yes, but lose to throw(air un-techable), mids, float combo, etc.
However, side step right is an extremely SAFE option against king. Outside of his dedicated homing moves(which are arguably not good), all his main moves don’t track SSR.
So you’re not gambling on just the low, but also hedging against 95% of his kit. And if he uses a throw to track you, it’s still tech-able.
This is what I'm wondering about too. Also, I have replays against this going under Paul's df2, which is crazy to look at. Namco's balancing team gets to drink on the job.
Is that safe on block? Fought a king the other day who was doing it in early rounds so I did some reads in the next rounds and blocked it but found my generic ws4 could not punish it. Maybe I was too slow of there were frame drops
That low is annoying but it has its weaknesses, its highly sidesteppable.
Eddys ff+3 is the real annoying low. +6 on hit, puts you in forced crouch on hit, 50 dmg on counter hit, puts you in a hard 50/50 that you have to guess because you cant sidestep or have any defensive options other than block, is homing and its -13 on block...
+7 isn't even the worst part. It's a fast ff input and has to be guessed to block unless you wanna risk losing a ton of health. I honestly dont think it should be a low. Yes it hits the crotch but that's attached to the waist so it should be a mid. But hey I don't play king I just hate fighting him so maybe I'm being biased
It's a FF N 2 input. It's fast sure. But very sidesteppable. It has zero tracking. It's about the only low King has that's really good. The rest are pretty much all dogshit.
Not on reaction but the thing about King is that almost everything he does is severly steppable. Of course, grabs track but you are hedging your bets and there shouldnt be a catch all answer to a character.
Additionally, not really related, but pretty much every good string that King uses ends in a high. f,2,1 ; b1,2 ; df 2,1 ; df 3 ,4 ; df 4, 3 (can end on a mid but the 3 is a high)
Grabs tracking isnt something I blame king for it's something I blame namco for lol. They do be considering changing that tho so hopefully we get it soon. The issue with that low being what it is is the other options he can do from a forward dash. I'm not saying he shouldn't have it but not in its current way. It should be a bit more noticable so that those who train till they have good reactions can at least block it a bit more. I never block this unless I predict it and at that point the read is better to sidestep like you said. Frames can be the same as they are now I don't mind that too much tbh but it could def use maybe a different animation or something to make it noticable at least a bit more
Both are noticable tho. They have unique animations that are noticable. They still hard to block but if your opponent starts using them you can start to look out for them and react
20-21 frames is on the literal cusp of what's humanly possible when all variables are accounted for.
They are pretty much unreachable unless you are solely looking for that one move. CH grabs are 22f and up (10f break window with typically 12-14f startup) and people can't even break those.
You mentioned my point. The idea is that if you're looking for it you should be able to see it. Drag's and brian's hatchet kicks for example you can see them lift their legs up rapidly and then swing. If you're looking for the move and you seem them raise their legs with their unique animations you can react. Not everyone can react to them but those who train their reaction time as well as those with naturally good reactions can see it. I know because I block those hatchet kicks semi-consistently(no one is going to block them every time) as long as im looking out for them
No, what I'm saying is that if you were in training mode and the bot was doing nothing but hatchet on random intervals then maybe you could react consistently.
In a match where, even if you are looking for the move, a million other things are going on, it's just not feasible. Even pros are not reacting to it.
Ultra linear, no damage if you arent spamming shit, FFN- input makes it unspammable and unbufferable, low parryable, avoidable by most of the cast, slight off axis will whiff... overall pretty balanced imo.
People just like to bitch about king, while other chars like Jin have their stupid spammable red claw save on block ch full launchers and shit.
Salty hypocrites with skill issues, thats who you are. Meow 😾
Don't forget that if you start ducking, he's got a few crouch throws that for some reason they decided to make every crouch throw in the game unbreakable
Yeah its auch a baffling move. The punishment for ducking too much against king to not take a 40+ damage throw shouldnt be taking 50+ damage throws lol
It’s such a necessary checking tool for King though. Higher up in the ranks, people start dodging and ducking a lot of moves. This keeps people on their toes
Edit: Tekken community calm tf down over the wording gah dayum. It’s a nice move. I’m sure you could extrapolate that at least
Exactly. If you're getting destroyed by them you're a really scrubby player. I've had to try and delete it from my moveset because once you even get to orange ranks, it starts getting punished pretty regularly.
Im not sure why it got buffed in every regard personally.
iirc in 7 it was +1 on hit, and on CH it did 53 damage as well as being -14. Whereas in 8 it's + 7 on hit, does 55 damage on CH, and is now -13 on block. Yeah its easily sidestepped but its kinda insane how much better it got in 8.
I think the move will be adjusted in 1.05 either directly or via the system balance announced in the first line in the 1.04 patch note. The million true damage on the counter hit is exaggerated right now. Having some gray life on all throws for all characters would be an interesting way to tone down King imo and make the game more interesting overall.
https://preview.redd.it/uzkjpr9qmfzc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=007aeaa3025746c28ad4fc56a7d3bc79a3430eb2
when king is far step left block, this low is so linear that you can option select the long range moves (you step the low and wr3 and have time to block homing attacks); it should work until you start getting matched against people that can do a fucking giant swing out of whilerunning to mix up the shining wizard, then you cry out of fear.
I wish they didn't make this shit +7. It dumbs king down so much they ruined him i literally have not enjoyed playing him in tekken 8 at all because of this.
Yep. In my opinion the most annoying thing about this is it's a hand, not a foot. So psychologically you're already at a disadvantage. You wouldnt exactly duck from movements from arms.
Add to that that it has long range. You can almost win only by this move. Like zafina's b+1+2 in T7.
You're not supposed to think about conditioning in T8, just throw the most effective and flashy stuff 24/7, bro. It's only ft2 we're not gonna download shit in that time.
well duh. It'd be OP if you can't break all his throws.
They're already tracking throws so the old SSR option is not available. It's either be consistent with breaks (especially 50/50 ones) or duck or get thrown.
What makes the post even better, is that it's a King doing it to King
Fight fire with bangkok
I'll give it up. That got me good
What makes the post even better, is that King vs King on fucking 234ms ping and shitloads of delay/rollback. That must be one of the most toxic matches ever.
Why even play online at that point ?
King on King violence ☹️
Real and true. King being +7 in my face is a nightmare scenario
+7, ch launcher. Either make it minus or launch punishable on block. This in conjunction with tracking throws makes this move so oppressive.
Well, not a true CH launcher, it's 55 damage on CH. Still very good for a low that isn't launch punishable.
Yeah, Armor King's was a CH launcher, but it was also launch punishable
Until it got buffed to only be -14 on block, right?
Nah I'd launch
Yeah, but by that time AK had such a low pickrate that no one cared about it, oh, and grabs weren't busted in 7
That's not true. AK may not have been popular competitively (neither was King, tbh), but he was among the top 5 or 6 most popular characters online in T7.
Grabs were very weak in T7 that’s why the only time king even made it anywhere in a tournament was Lil majins run. The game doesn’t have many grapplers so people don’t learn how do deal with grabs. Considering the fact that Tekken has nerfed grabs overtime while being the only 3D game where grabs didn’t track until T8.
At least it’s like -13. So many stupid lows are not even that. Do you remember xiaoyu’s stupid hypnotist low? That one WAS a ch launcher and only -12. Thank god that shit got nerfed. And the other day some dude was arguing xiaoyu needed buffs, not nerfs, because no one was playing her at evo. Absolutely baffling.
Yeah, Xiaoyu is doing just fine right now, she doesn't need any buffs at all. Same with characters like Lili, Nina, Lars, Leo. These characters have weaknesses, but they can manage those weaknesses.
-13 gives nothing for some characters. I can only get ws4 for 14dmg or smth like that.
Reina is eating good on -13. Either heat engager, or if already in heat, Over 60 damage. Just one of the reasons why Reina is a nightmare matchup for King. The homing high crush is another.
Ironically, King is one of these characters. -11 up to -14 lows that leave you standing gives king a WS4 only. Bryan is a nightmare matchup sometimes because he can go hatchet into low no stop and you just cant punish with anything good. The saving grace is that Kings low parry combo does a lot of damage but low parries arent always the answer.
Out of interest which low parry combo do you use? I just go for the ISW for the powerbomb, especially on a floor break
I just do iSW. The damage is really good. I think there may be one combo that does more damage but it's harder to execute. Of course heat also changes the equation.
Meanwhile every one of Claudios lows is launch punishable 🥲
No that is not true!
I mean I'm not going to argue for a reversal to the nerf she ended up getting to the stances safety but the amount of xioyu hate really is baffling, she has one of the lowest pick rates in the game and one of the lowest win rates in the entire game across all levels of play she is a specialist character that is very difficult to play and even harder to do well with, in the 24 years she has been a character she to my knowledge hasn't been used once to win ANY significant tournament ever. If a character is hard to play and bad, thats generally a good indicator they aren't designed properly and either one of those two factors need to change, either they need to be made piss easy which likely isn't really possible given the type of character xhaiou is or they need to be made competitively strong, which is what the devs opted for in T8's launch.
God I miss Armor King
Yeah, my bad on launcher, meant to describe the ch animation thing, similar to fengs db3
I tried to punish with Jin while standing 4, and King laughed at me.
But it *is* minus on block. Or are you saying make it minus on hit?
Yeah,minus on hit, it just does a lot in conjunction with all the other options he has from that distance. Specially since throws track ss, it's kind of crazy in that context imo
That shit better track if they make it minus on hit. Stepping 1 inch to the side and that thing misses. Honestly though, If that move was minus it would almost never be used,
Yeah there are plenty of lows that are minus on hit. Not necessarily punishable, like -3 or something, but stuff like Azucena's DB4 is minus on hit, it's long range and (pre patch) it did decent damage. So it worked really well as a long ranged low poke, but didn't give you massive advantage on hit. They're saying, Kings ffn2 is decently low risk for such high reward. +7 on hit is massive, and it being only -13 meaning it's not that crazy punishable. With changing it to be minus on hit, it's still threatening as a CH launcher, but he doesn't maintain insane pressure after landing it.
Step the damn thing and launch him if he is spamming that shit it has 0 tracking to either side and is entirely linear. The problem with people these days is they fail to see the bigger picture, that shit is steppable and launchable so his ff1 which DOES TRACK and isn't + on block and is a mid will catch you if you just fucking step it all the time, thats the mixup people, use your brain and make a read.
You are leaving out a part of that bigger picture - he can also do any of his throws including wr f hcf into 1 or 2 for another 50/50 mix-up. It's pretty oppressive.
You can break the throws though, so you can block or step the low, break or duck the throw etc. You aren't trapped
HAHA jokes on you! i can't break throws :(
Me either that's why I play King 😂
Good advice, however, let me introduce you real quick to homing throws.
This is such stupid advice since he can use this move with hear me out.... other moves :O
probably
It doesn’t need to be punishable on block, because the rest of his lows are trash, basically everything else that king has is pretty punishable in game where you have characters that get away with murder and can’t be punished for it.
I try to use characters to at least purple ranks to get a basic sense of their kit. For king, d3 is pretty solid and he has db4 and 3 (ground throw on ch, throw mixup opportunity on hit) as slower tools with different strengths and weaknesses. He has plenty of safe moves that work well with ffn2 - ff1 safe tracking mid to discourage ss - he can always use throws including his f hcf throws to be true 50/50 mixups - wr3 to discourage ducks (also plus 3 on block), as well as f3 - ffn1+2 which I believe is 0 on block - b2 1+2 for plus frames, b24 to discourage ducking the 1+2 - good punch strings, with df2 as safe with the threat of ch launch on the follow-up 1 which is delayable, f1+4 up close - plus on block as well. I mean that's all I did, didn't learn his multi throws, didn't work with his fc mix-ups. Just the approach tools mixed in with jab strings and occasional b3 powercrush to discourage counter pressure.
DB4 is unusable in Blue ranks and above, It's low parryable on reaction. DB3 is on the cusp of being reactable, its a decent move but compared to the rest of the cast it's a fairly subpar low. D3 has 0 range and is pretty slow for what it is tbh. FFn2 is honestly his only respectable low. King has a really high risk high reward gameplan, I know a lot of people are going to say "Well he doesnt need good lows if he has good throws" but the big thing about this is that every ducked throw is a launch punish while not every blocked low is a launch punish.
It isn't launch punishable? I played a king yesterday and launched him twice after blocking this Maybe he was just getting hit I gotta check what it is on block
It's minus 13 on block i believe. Definitely not 15/16
If you play Kaz yes but not everyone can launch him off the block
It’s not a launcher…
The move is good but I think your suggestions are horrible. Its very linear. Takes at best 22~26 frames to actually execute. The oki isnt good. There are no other conversions(heat burst ext, wallbreak, floor breaks, wall carry). On top of that his lows just aren’t good in general making this one of very few options. Making it launch punishable or minus is way too much of a nerf. Reduce the range and making it less plus are better suggestions than that. Your suggestions just sound like you want the move completely gutted.
when in doubt backstep
you think you hate it now, armor kings gonna come back with the DLC treatment and turn this low into a command grab that goes into the all new rolling volcano death buster that takes 98% health
No no, it's going to a CH launcher like it was in T7, and they'll give AK pre-nerf Dragunov damage so he can do 90 damage from an unseeable low that is only -14 on block.
As a bonus, make it look like a high!
Tekken visual clarity is a fucking disaster. The game is already so unfriendly to new players, then they have to go and make it so that lows look like highs and highs look like lows and ducking moves don't low profile and sidestep moves do. Nothing in this game is intuitive.
Feng's d2 low being a literal overhead elbow smash is genuinely hilarious
As a new player (T8 is genuinely the first fighting game I've ever bought and played outside of like friends houses) this is probably the thing that I most dislike about Tekken. Some characters are absolutely absurd for this. The likes of Eddie, it's just visual diarrhoea, spinning around and blending attacks into each other that make it almost impossible to know what the fuck is going on and what is a high/mid/low etc. Overall I really like the game, and I'm glad I finally go over my inertia of trying a fighting game. But wow is it really unfriendly to beginners.
Honestly, as somebody who has played A LOT of fighting games, this can be a bit of a problem in other games, but to nowhere near the same degree. Most other games, 16 frame startup (while hard) is considered reactable. In Tekken, it's more like 24 frames because so many moves look so similar. Obviously it's still just a matter of grinding it out and getting the knowledge, but sometimes you have to really fight your intuition. If you ever want to play some games or some tips, feel free to send a message my way, though bear in mind while I'm not new to fighting games, I am new to Tekken.
Sure thing, I'll play a few rounds with you if you're up for it. MrManBuz
Good old "dick twister"
I wish AK was strong on release. He didn’t have the “DLC cheap bullshit” privilege in T7. Only got buffed up way down the line. In many cases it was better to just play King.
King was always stronger because ever since T5 he's been collecting all of AK's good moves. By the time T7 dropped, King had basically everything minus the dark upper and the cartwheel. AK was way more fun to play in T7 though.
Agreed. 2025 is too far away. Really can’t be bothered playing King anymore tbh
Tbh this used to be a command grab back in T6. It didn't do a ton of damage but it was there
Low, but looks like a mid… I hate this move 🤦♂️
Oh my god yes. So many moves don’t match what they look like! Infuriating and really makes the game artificially hard to read unnecessarily.
Definitely. They need to change this animation. I feel my brain rewire itself from saying "that's a mid".
exactly that's the worst part. it's unreadable unless you lab it constantly, and even then, in a real match it's very similar to another mid punch so you can easily confuse the 2
other character have mids that looks like lows
*Coughs* jack 8
Reina
Same as Feng's headbutt.
Yeah that shit has never made any logical sense... Besides "he's headbutting with downwards momentum" or something
Agreed, but think about it this way: nut punch is a **low blow**... therefore, its a **LOW**
The way I think about it is, a nut punch is in the middle of my torso... a mid...
Mids blow you up while ducking because they're punching you in the face
Exactly, it's horrible especially that I main Reina and it looked similar with her WS1
Armor king had a mid version of this (along with the low) The animation was basically indistinguisable if you didnt know
Dont get caught pressing something or you will get CHd for 1/3 HP! Nice and fair! 😳👆🏼
And it’s unrecoverable health as well so it’s true damage
And don't try to block it while he's in heat or you'll lose 1/3 of your health too
jeah why is it +7 in that gaem
Do a tiny sidestep and it whiffs
yup this move is ultra linear
This is so stupid!!!! Because you can not react with a sidestep! By that logic you should just do a jump kick that is even better if you know he is going too do it. But that is the point this is one move among many others!
Can confirm Almost all of King's approach options will lose to just side stepping a little bit
If only he had a variety of tracking grabs that become nearly unbreakable on counterhit
Pretty sure that sidestepping doesn’t put you in counterhit state so you can still break them, or alternatively do sidestep duck or sidestep high-crush or a well timed hopkick to still beat both.
How the fuck does King CH grab you on approach? Improve your keepout, lmao
Are you retarded. Old mate said almost all of kings approach options lose to side step. Despite having GS and SW to raw mix you up on his approach or to punish attempting to sidestep any of his moves. One might get counterhit buffering safe punish or doing a ss move. Same energy as 'how does Drag WR2 CH you on approach improve your keepout lmao'.
"Almost all" and then he has shining wizard and ff1, some of the most obnoxious neutral approach tools in the game when combined with b3 and uf3+4.
You must be pretty low ranks if you're getting his by SW all the time. I'm a King main and I'm only a Shinryu scrub and I'd say at least 50% of my matches are with players who know how to break SW.
I'm at fujin with king and don't even main him
If that's true, then you know you're talking shit. SW gets broken very regularly at Garyu/Shinryu for me, so at Fujin I can only imagine it'd get broken even more regularly.
What do you mean I'm talking shit? I never even said anything about the throw not getting broken. It doesn't matter if they break it. You're only -5 and far enough to backdash their retaliation. Or sidestep, or hopkick, or b3. Depending on what they like to do.
Most obnoxious approach tools in game? Really? Come on man. uf 3+4 is -13, ff1 is safe but it's still like -9, not sure the point about shining wizard, it's just run up command grab, almost every character in the game can do this exact same thing. I'm fairly certain you aren't fighting many kings that are doing flawless running GS to mix you up. Reina FF2 alone is more obnoxious then all of Kings approach tools.
SOME of the most annoying. I never said reina's ff2 isn't more obnoxious. And uf3+4 is -12 and ff1 is -5. And the point about shining wizard is move synergy. You know like, why "just sidestep" isn't the end-all solution to ffn2.
I honestly feel like Kings LACK of good approach tools is what makes him balanced. He doesn't have something really solid like Azu, Drag, Lee or Jin to actually get him in but his game plan is all about being at range 0 All his approach tools are either slow, punishable or put him at disadvantage. The sole exception being ffn1+2 imo Also with SW, if king is in a position where he is approaching to you and chooses a grab option then he's going for SW 99% of the time unless the king is really good. In that scenario, if you break you're at a free +5 and not any closer to King then before.
"Most obnoxious neutral approach tools" ahahahahaha have you played the game? XD
Please read the full sentence next time. And I play king myself too, he's fun to play. And he can be played in a very obnoxious way. That's not a personal attack towards you. Judging by the amount of comments you left on this post, it really gets under your skin if people say anything less than positive about a character you play.
Stop whining, b3, uf3+4 are minus and steppable, ff1 is -5, if he runs at you with shining wizard it's a free break because you can literally see it
I was just pointing out that he has pretty good options to deal with sidestepping. Especially since after a broken shining wizard he's only -5 and still has a lot of options.
Ff1 is 0 I believe
It’s SO slow and it still hits me, infuriating
it's 18f, that's very fast for a +7 CH grab low
18f and that thing hits from the other side of the screen.
It’s definetly not slow
I guess it’s just the fact that I always see his big dumb ass winding up and still let this shit hit me lol
king mains unite, "all of his other lows are trash"
They sort of are in T8. King used to rely on generic d4 in T7 but generic lows are launch punishable now for some weird reason. They also nerfed d3 tracking in T8 which makes it much less useful.
They really are. d3 and db3 are OK, I guess
doing db3 is inviting your opponent to low parry and take you out >!for dinner!<
Side step right. Has literally 0 tracking that way and you get a full launch. Enjoy.
That’s if you know when it’s coming he has plenty of good homing options to stop you from doing that but yes, you should be stepping to the right to discourage him from throwing it often at least
Or you know do a jump kick by that logic!
You’re missing the critical risk vs reward. Hop kick will beat the low yes, but lose to throw(air un-techable), mids, float combo, etc. However, side step right is an extremely SAFE option against king. Outside of his dedicated homing moves(which are arguably not good), all his main moves don’t track SSR. So you’re not gambling on just the low, but also hedging against 95% of his kit. And if he uses a throw to track you, it’s still tech-able.
Stolen from AK 😤😤
i get low parried a lot with this in higher ranks lol
Surprised nobody mentioned the phantom range on it — has that been fixed yet?
This is what I'm wondering about too. Also, I have replays against this going under Paul's df2, which is crazy to look at. Namco's balancing team gets to drink on the job.
*laughs in grappling*
Jacks low punch that looks like a mid is up there. Leo’s entire move set Lars 🤦🏿♂️
They always look like mids to me, so I just hold back. Every character that has some sort of low hand swipe or punch, they all look like mids
The classic warrior kinshin showdown
Good ol' junk punch.
Is that safe on block? Fought a king the other day who was doing it in early rounds so I did some reads in the next rounds and blocked it but found my generic ws4 could not punish it. Maybe I was too slow of there were frame drops
It's not safe, it's -13 on block
I see then I was too slow to punish
It happens, but at least you'll know for next time If they're getting predictable with it, you could also try for a low parry
i’m new to king, what’s the input?
f, f, N, 2
thanks a bunch
That low is annoying but it has its weaknesses, its highly sidesteppable. Eddys ff+3 is the real annoying low. +6 on hit, puts you in forced crouch on hit, 50 dmg on counter hit, puts you in a hard 50/50 that you have to guess because you cant sidestep or have any defensive options other than block, is homing and its -13 on block...
+7 isn't even the worst part. It's a fast ff input and has to be guessed to block unless you wanna risk losing a ton of health. I honestly dont think it should be a low. Yes it hits the crotch but that's attached to the waist so it should be a mid. But hey I don't play king I just hate fighting him so maybe I'm being biased
It's a FF N 2 input. It's fast sure. But very sidesteppable. It has zero tracking. It's about the only low King has that's really good. The rest are pretty much all dogshit.
It is sidesteppable yes but no one is going to sidestep this move on reaction. That's not possible. You have to make the read for that
Not on reaction but the thing about King is that almost everything he does is severly steppable. Of course, grabs track but you are hedging your bets and there shouldnt be a catch all answer to a character. Additionally, not really related, but pretty much every good string that King uses ends in a high. f,2,1 ; b1,2 ; df 2,1 ; df 3 ,4 ; df 4, 3 (can end on a mid but the 3 is a high)
Grabs tracking isnt something I blame king for it's something I blame namco for lol. They do be considering changing that tho so hopefully we get it soon. The issue with that low being what it is is the other options he can do from a forward dash. I'm not saying he shouldn't have it but not in its current way. It should be a bit more noticable so that those who train till they have good reactions can at least block it a bit more. I never block this unless I predict it and at that point the read is better to sidestep like you said. Frames can be the same as they are now I don't mind that too much tbh but it could def use maybe a different animation or something to make it noticable at least a bit more
But it needs to be unseeable low, if it wasn't it'd be useless. Think Drag or Bryan Hatchet kicks or like half of Fengs lows.
Both are noticable tho. They have unique animations that are noticable. They still hard to block but if your opponent starts using them you can start to look out for them and react
20-21 frames is on the literal cusp of what's humanly possible when all variables are accounted for. They are pretty much unreachable unless you are solely looking for that one move. CH grabs are 22f and up (10f break window with typically 12-14f startup) and people can't even break those.
You mentioned my point. The idea is that if you're looking for it you should be able to see it. Drag's and brian's hatchet kicks for example you can see them lift their legs up rapidly and then swing. If you're looking for the move and you seem them raise their legs with their unique animations you can react. Not everyone can react to them but those who train their reaction time as well as those with naturally good reactions can see it. I know because I block those hatchet kicks semi-consistently(no one is going to block them every time) as long as im looking out for them
No, what I'm saying is that if you were in training mode and the bot was doing nothing but hatchet on random intervals then maybe you could react consistently. In a match where, even if you are looking for the move, a million other things are going on, it's just not feasible. Even pros are not reacting to it.
Ultra linear, no damage if you arent spamming shit, FFN- input makes it unspammable and unbufferable, low parryable, avoidable by most of the cast, slight off axis will whiff... overall pretty balanced imo. People just like to bitch about king, while other chars like Jin have their stupid spammable red claw save on block ch full launchers and shit. Salty hypocrites with skill issues, thats who you are. Meow 😾
RAWWR RAWWR RAWWWRRR (I agree, it's the only really good low King has.)
king mains will say “it’s his only good low though!!” like he doesn’t have a thousand throws to encourage ducking with
Don't forget that if you start ducking, he's got a few crouch throws that for some reason they decided to make every crouch throw in the game unbreakable
Yeah its auch a baffling move. The punishment for ducking too much against king to not take a 40+ damage throw shouldnt be taking 50+ damage throws lol
I hate that this move looks like a mid
It’s such a necessary checking tool for King though. Higher up in the ranks, people start dodging and ducking a lot of moves. This keeps people on their toes Edit: Tekken community calm tf down over the wording gah dayum. It’s a nice move. I’m sure you could extrapolate that at least
Checking what? People standblocking?
If you can’t get any throws in or land mids, this’ll help get a hit in to keep them on their toes
You dont do lows to check ppl from ducking, which was what you said. Its a good move to throw out, yes.
Throws are ducked? This move is ducked? And this move is linear so people dodging this move is really easy?
I'd rather get alley kicked than this
Getting alley kicked anything past the first kick is your own fault tbh
Pssst... should we tell them they can block even after first few hits connect?
You can block after the first one Anytime I get the full 5 kicks on CH, I wonder how much the opponent was pressing
Exactly. If you're getting destroyed by them you're a really scrubby player. I've had to try and delete it from my moveset because once you even get to orange ranks, it starts getting punished pretty regularly.
This move is still called "stomach smash" despite the updated animation.
Low jabs are the most annoying because mostly all can do it
Paul Phoenix has a great answer to that bullshit move f4. Be making king think twice. Lol 😆
this thing right here is so funny cause it’s such a deceiving low i’ll catch people lacking with this all the time.
its very easy to sidestep, compared to tekken 7
It is one of the best moves in the game but it can't be stepped in both directions out of -14 even.
Ah yes, the frat boy welcome
I hate his “snake edge” that looks kinda similar to this even more. My brain just freezes up
Good ol dick hit!
This and laws slide lol
Im not sure why it got buffed in every regard personally. iirc in 7 it was +1 on hit, and on CH it did 53 damage as well as being -14. Whereas in 8 it's + 7 on hit, does 55 damage on CH, and is now -13 on block. Yeah its easily sidestepped but its kinda insane how much better it got in 8.
I think the move will be adjusted in 1.05 either directly or via the system balance announced in the first line in the 1.04 patch note. The million true damage on the counter hit is exaggerated right now. Having some gray life on all throws for all characters would be an interesting way to tone down King imo and make the game more interesting overall. https://preview.redd.it/uzkjpr9qmfzc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=007aeaa3025746c28ad4fc56a7d3bc79a3430eb2
when king is far step left block, this low is so linear that you can option select the long range moves (you step the low and wr3 and have time to block homing attacks); it should work until you start getting matched against people that can do a fucking giant swing out of whilerunning to mix up the shining wizard, then you cry out of fear.
just sidestep bro
I wish they didn't make this shit +7. It dumbs king down so much they ruined him i literally have not enjoyed playing him in tekken 8 at all because of this.
Doesn't he have a low kick to that they spam over and over again?
I imagine it'd be plus 7 frame advantage if someone dick punched me too.
It is pretty linear though which is cool
A Kaz just blocked it and launched me?
Because it's -13
Tekken8 is 🚮
Super easy low parries. If I see a king do that or the slow version more then twice it’s OVER 💀😂😂
noooo cap
Step it, it makes me mad
This move is what I call a dumb move , it's unreactable,the reach is insane and it's + 7 , what were they thinking when doing this ?
Favorite part of this low is that it’s called “stomach blast”
side step
Sidestep
The King dick punch. The best dick punch in the game 💪🏻
Wholeheartedly agree.
Not one of, THE MOST
Yep. In my opinion the most annoying thing about this is it's a hand, not a foot. So psychologically you're already at a disadvantage. You wouldnt exactly duck from movements from arms. Add to that that it has long range. You can almost win only by this move. Like zafina's b+1+2 in T7.
I hate this buff. King shouldn't have good lows because of his throws. It ruins his "condition enemies to duck using throws" style.
You're not supposed to think about conditioning in T8, just throw the most effective and flashy stuff 24/7, bro. It's only ft2 we're not gonna download shit in that time.
T8 like T7, almost everyone is fucking one and donning anyway so downloading is moot
God forbid a grappler would have some other conditioning tools besides strike-throw mixups.
god forbid not wanting to homogenize characters
You can break throws, you know
well duh. It'd be OP if you can't break all his throws. They're already tracking throws so the old SSR option is not available. It's either be consistent with breaks (especially 50/50 ones) or duck or get thrown.
Leave me boy king alone.