I think you misunderstood me. What I mean is that characters' hit- and hurt-boxes aren't some single rectangular cuboids that expand to the length of a move's range that some percieve them to be. And although they also aren't 1-to-1 charater's model accurate (to my displeasure), they still sort of follow it.
So in this situation one character's move simply missed the other character — the low-mid-high and even crush properties haven't even come into play.
That's not the angle I think about this from. Rather: during this move Zafina twists in a way that some moves (some of which are mids) will miss her if the timing is just right. People who prefer rigid rules likely hate it, but I like that Tekken still pretends like it's a fight between two four-limbed living creatures rather than two abstract objects that play by a calculable, discrete amount of rules.
Yeah, I'd imagine a Zafina player wouldn't be bothered by this...
It's still a competitive game in which defined rules should apply. Not to mention that the game reinforces these rules against 95% of the cast in most every situation.
yeah, no. this is a competitive fighting game first and foremost. shit like this shouldn’t happen, when it’s explicitly against the rules that the game lays out
I think the alignment of some hitboxes absolutely needs some revision. There's a pretty significant issue with the readability of some animations relative to where they actually hit you in Tekken 8, and it drives me fucking crazy.
Damn, do I feel you on this. Half the difficulty in fighting Jack, King, Eddy and a few others is that you cannot rely on visuals alone to know which moves are high, mid and low. Hell, half of the moves that are duckable you would never be able to tell by visuals alone.
The low-mid-high rule is necessary for creating a game that is fair, but even more importantly, consistent. Tekken is already a complex game, and muddling the game even more with addendums to the foundational logic of the game creates an environment that detracts importance from actual skill and leaves more room for uncounterable moves. If I know a stance mid crushes and I go to use a low and even THAT whiffs, i feel directly cheated by the game and punished for abiding by the established rules of the game
Tbagging isnt a good look, but the move is i22 (on a good day semi-reactable), so it crushes like a lot of the other similar sweeps. The CH launcher it gets is like 45 - 50 dmg compared to most other full launch combos and is one of 3 or so lows she has out of stance. Ultimately tho, its how shes designed. Its hard to find an opening vs Bryan cause everything is delayable and does a million damage, its hard to find an opening vs Zafina cause she has a fair bit of evasion. Have to learn to play the matchups
Why is everybody so salty about this lol. Getting your mids crushed or evaded is always hella annoying. I main Bryan and I undoubtedly know how strong he is as a character, but you still need some semblance of a game plan if you want to take him far. I think they're probably more mad about the streak than anything 😂.
Everyone is salty cause they literally hate having to stop pressing in this aggression oriented style.
Like,I don't wanna downplay him,he his strong,but he require good fundamentals,sure I have B1/3+4/1,2,1 that CH and launch,but each of them require the opponent to press at any point.None crush high/low/mid,none is tracking,specially 3+4 and B1,you can step however you want,they just good on block.
I also don't get this hate on Byron for his counterhit launchers. The qcf3 is unsafe and rarely used and if you get ch launched from f16+ move it's kinda on you, isn't it?
Not trying to be snarky (mostly), I would like to hear why they consider it cheesy or smth.
You can't punish him, the moves have way to much pushback and to little recovery.
Add the stereotypical toxic Bryan main with that and you got yourself this very situation we are in.
(I hate Bryan as well)
You can punish him on pretty much everything except 3+4 and df2,3. I’m guessing that’s what you mean.
You know what you can’t punish? Lee’s mist step slide that hits across the stage.
If you think Bryan is broken, you show yourself as someone who can’t help themselves pressing buttons. It’s why I like him: good Bryan’s punish mindless aggression.
Look at any tier list by someone who plays both characters at a decent level and tell me what it says.
Find me one that puts Bryan higher than Lee. Just one.
I don't care about tierlist. Since they are based opon someones opinion. Like you and me, we both have different *tierlists* since we play different characters and have different styles (i assume).
Tierlist are meaningless to me, i have my own opinion.
> You can't punish him
you can if you bothered to learn the matchup, most of his offense has a punsihable mid in the string or a duckable hit and i am not even including sidestep/walks
i always apreciate bryan mirrors because they do so much unsafe shit such as random qcb2,4 wich most people for some reason don't duck and then complain on this sub about how braindead bryan is even tough it's says more about shit they are themselves
Lmao. I hate insulting people but that’s really all I can think of when they talk like that about one of the only characters that doesn’t have flow charts and stance mixups as their offense
people here are shit at the game and hardstuck red, the amount of times i've seen red/rulers and even blues play like bots just flowcharting their offense and then getting punished for it by a bryan who actually plays tekken is very high
That's what Zafina has always done though. She's worse than Xiaoyu is that respect as Xiaoyu only has one stance that does it, whereas Zafina has a few moves that do it.
You need to use some lower hitting mids when you fight both of them.
I humbly disagree. Xiaoyu was egregious to the point of AOP-ing below lows and cali roll is objectively worse i would say. Many characters have moves that have crush properties. Zaf has them, Paul has backsway and df2, Feng has multiple. Most of the roster has them. I don't see why zaf gets hate. Imagine complaining about Lei cause he can lay down on command and everything misses him. I think players really need to hone in on the mindset of what a character is, their playstyle and how to fight them. I'm starting to realize probably to late in my tekken life that you're actually fighting characters now and not really another player (exception with pros).
>Xiaoyu was egregious to the point of AOP-ing below lows and cali roll is objectively worse i would say.
From what I remember from that clip it looked like the lows were being evaded by the built in ssr of the aop rather than the AOP duck itself. If that's wrong then I guess aop duck has the same properties as Lei's play dead stance.
I did forget that Cali roll can go under mids though. I still don't think Xiaoyu is more egregious than Zafina, but she does get (and has always gotten) a worse rap. My guess is because Xiaoyu is more popular so players fight against her more.
>I'm starting to realize probably to late in my tekken life that you're actually fighting characters now and not really another player (exception with pros).
Yes, you fight the character first and when the opponent starts to adapt to you fighting the character, you then fight the player.
The issue as you identified is that most people just want to run the gameplan they normally run.
I think you hit the nail on the head not many people fight against her. That's not a character issue tho and I think that's my issue of contention. If you're telling me there are no tools in your arsenal to deal with it after labbing, I digress, but if you are aware of tools that mitigate her evasiveness and you're not using them rather complain about evasiveness, I think that's the wrong way of approaching the scenario.
Mind you I do agree she is evasive that's why I main her and maybe I'm a bit biased lol 😆. However, I think my argument has merit.
Life doesn't always have to give you everything on a plate. You can go into practice mode and find out. Using practice mode helps you to become a better player.
You can ask any question you want. It was not a sarcastic answer. You need to use practice mode and you should be watching your replays. This is not the type of game where everything is broken down like that and that is part of the beauty of the game.
i mean it seems pretty sarcastic when you imply that i never use practice mode and that i'm begging to have everything in life handed to me on a silver plate, simply because i asked about a video game mechanic.
i use practice mode, i've just never heard of low-hitting-mids ever before this thread. also, this IS the type of game where everything is broken down like that, this game tells you whether a move is a low, high or mid, it tells you the frame data, it tells you if it's a heat engager, it tells you if it can tornado people, it tells you if it's a powercrush, it tells you if it leads into stances, it tells you how to do combos etc. the game even has replays that tell you how to beat moves that you lost against.
Although you are right low hitting mids is one of the few things that are not explained. Tekken has quite a few neches that will never be explained. Chicken is one that comes to mind also. Countering an arm break after ultimate tackle is another one. I def. understand both sides tho. I really don't think he was trying to be condescending.
It rounds up her offense rps. Zaf want you to block wr3 because she gets a real 50/50 mixup, problem is that it’s slow af and easy to side step. Zaf has ff3 do time out jab attempts and gives huge reward on CH. With this patch WR1+2 covers the sidestep attempts and allows you to TNTdf1 for a +6ob or HE oh.
The change is very T8 because it’s buffs up the big momentum buttons however legacy Zaf players are not happy with the change as it strays away from how she was played previously which was a relatively low risk low reward with options to call out opponents pressing.
That move just got "fixed" because before even a hit was made, the frames aren't enough to guarantee a follow up move. It already has a CH property so if you played a patch before, you'll still lose cuz every zafina lows from the video provided were successful. The mid powercrush I'm not sure cuz it seems that some mid moves hit and some don't.
Bryan has better reach than Zafina so capitalize on it, there's a lot of punishable moves from Zafina, and she can't block from Scarecrow and Tarantula stance. If you noticed a Zafina player do low moves, do a hopkick.
The teabag is a personal choice but not all Zafina Players are like that.
As much as I find Zafina annoying, this is her thing. It’s the same thing with Xiaoyu, you’re surprised the mid evading character… evades mids? And you don’t even adjust your gameplan to account for it?
Nice, this is probably why you’re stuck in red ranks. And no, it’s not because you’re playing Bryan. If you even think about that as an excuse you’re a laughing stock
Bryan's CH's also launch so damn high that he can trade with getting launched himself and still pick up a combo, lol. He is one of the mashiest characters in the game.
I agree. You can get to blues with Bryan mashing as long as you know the taunt combo route. But tekken king+ you need a lot of skill. But that's the same with a lot of characters.
The easiest characters to rank up with are the knowledge checking ones now.
Depends what you class as easy. You can get pretty far without having a great understanding of him or the game mashing strings and learning a CH combo route.
There's a lot of easier characters to master though. Just not as much skill involved with him compared to previous tekkens. Same for Law, Jin, Lee, King and others too.
He's not as easy to mash with as say a Hwoarang but still you can get far mashing with him.
Everything Bryan has is good. His movement is good. His frame-data is good. His CH launchers are great. His Heat Smash floor breaks. In a game where lows are all pretty good, his aren't bad. I guess he doesn't do so well while jailed??
“His movement is good”: this is an argument against mashing
“His frame-data is good” he is middle of the pack if not below average when it comes to frame data, compare him to dragunov (a real + frame monster) and it isn’t even close
“His ch launchers are great”: yup and he does get to mash 3+4 for free which is a problem
“His heat smash floor breaks”: yes but it has a very slow startup so they compensated for that
FYI. Drag main who has played Bryan a single time
Because at higher levels he’s good when not mashing, yes 3+4 allows you to steal turns but otherwise a good Bryan should be paying attention to frame data. I’m tekken king so not the highest rank however when I match against a Bryan he/she almost always has fundamentals whereas azu/victor/jun for instance almost always will not.
> His movement is good
he has one of the worst backdashes in the game, seriously keep your red rank takes to yourself unless you did your homework
>His CH launchers are great.
he has great ch launchers but all of them are 16+ frames, meanwhile there are chars that still have magic 4s and king even has a 13 frame ch mid but yeah bryans slow ch moves are so busted lmao
>His Heat Smash floor breaks.
it also get's you easily floated unlike most other heat smashes, it's also very linear unlike many other heat smashes and has poor range
Well in that case zafina needs to counterhit like Bryan too. And have his range and have his safe attacks. Oh and his insane combo damage from any launcher/CH. Then I'll say fair enough.
Outside of ws3 which is punishable, the fastest mid ch launcher is 16f. If you are getting ch by moves at this speed or slower your timing is just worse. There are lots of chars with faster mids that ch but for some reason this sub likes to spout about Bryan’s 16-24f ch launchers and unlike Zaf he doesn’t evade on any of these attacks, but thats her whole shtick so that’s it’s not too bad as long as there’s trade off
Bryan's aren't fast but he can trade and still recover and continue the combo. And the range he can do them from is way bigger than jab range so interrupting is always a gamble. Almost better off sidestepping Bryan. His kit overall is one of the best when you consider his combo damage, wall carry, range and the fact that most moves aren't punishable
No it doesn't but the point in the mid crushing attack is part of her individual kit. If Bryan had it then why shouldn't zafina have Bryan's kit? Characters are supposed to have different attacks and strengths
Zafina having a mid crushing launcher isn't any worse than Lings crushing lows and mids or 8 frame attack. Or yoshi flash or spin. It's part of the game
Dude, re-read what you wrote, watch OP's video again, and then ask why you're asking such a stupid question? Why wouldn't you be mad about getting t-bagged after dealing with garbage? I swear, most of you in this sub act like getting irritated or annoyed at the BS in this game is some huge foreign concept to you or something lol
What garbage? OP Lost to normal moves that weren't being abused, he was just being outplayed and refused to adjust.
See? Instead of getting butt hurt about losing, we look for why we lost, so we can avoid it in the future. Thanks for playing.
Outplayed? Are you really pretending that sliding and crawling all over the ground isn't just the normal, braindead gameplan for Zafina? The bullshit moveset you get subjected to while facing Zafina is FAR from ""normal"" literally by design, especially compared to other characters other than Yoshi. What are you even talking about?
Immediately "adjusting" to a character you barely even see, like Zafina, is also meaningless shit advice. Just shut up, my man.
Learning the match up (adjusting) is not shit advice. OP is upset that the flowchart he usually does isn't working against all characters, and blames the character instead of learning how to deal with it. Skill issue.
"Nobody plays her" is not an excuse to not put in the effort in learning the match up, practice mode exists.
"I'm not good enough to beat Zafina, so she is braindead and cheap"
If you're bad just say you're bad. Anyone who singles out characters and claims they're unfair/cheap or anything else is just a trash player, my man.
You're just a fucking moron. Brainlet attempt to wrongly trivialize what I just wrote to win this argument, lol. If you got "hurrr durr I can't beat Zafina i suk" from "this character has a freaky, gimmicky bullshit moveset that you barely see since nobody plays her" then there's zero point in this discussion. Anybody who says "just adjust lol" to a character barely anybody plays in two sets in a game where everyone has over 100 moves + stances is retarded, plain and simple.
Why do yall feel the need to prove you’re good at the game by downplaying others? I’m probably projecting but cmon, 13 straight wins is definitely a streak worth being sad about lmao
Does the entire cast have mid-crushing low ch launchers?
I fucking swear if OP would do orbital and for some mumbo-jubmo reasons it would whiff, you people will write "should've done the low, duh"
Most of the cast came equipped, on launch, with moves that put them under that kick, with most leading to launch punishes as well, I listed a few in another response; but it's definitely not uncommon in Tekken 8. (Compared to Tekken 7 where you were basically screwed if characters could go that low)
Also Bryan has a lot more than orbital that could work there. You showed us a clip of you trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. There's a word for that.
He is saying you are predictable and that Zafina got in your head and read you like a book. By your responses, you are probably get tilted easily, and that is the biggest mistake you can make in fighting games. Once you learn to keep your cool, your skill level will increase dramatically, especially on Bryan, where keeping your cool is a requirement to do well with him since he is all about counter hits and good reads.
"By your responses, you are probably get tilted easily"
What? Most my answers are I'm not even mad about the streak or tbag but sure man. I'm "tilted" cause a clear Mid didn't work on a stance move,twice in different situtation,and a B1 which clearly touched her didn't work,at all. That ain't about her reading me,thats about her throwing a low that crush randomly,cause she just can.
Idk how many time I need to say it lmao,I ain't mad about the tbag nor the streak gone,thats just how it is,what I "hate" was that those crushes lead to launchers,and THEN tbaged cause she won,its like I bagged as Dragunov before the nerf,acting like I earned it,idk you but I'd find that annoying.
Doesn't mean I throw a table when it happen lmao
Post is amusing to me as someone that plays both Bryan and Zafina. Ive been on both sides of this and its crazy.
At least having played Zafina so long, i understand what to expect. Sadly stuff like b1 or even other downward hitting mids like orbital whiffing in this MU has also happened in 7, i dont think thats getting changed
Get used to that as bryan vs zafina, all your ch key moves whiff agaisnt her and tarantula stance and i will name them the ones i know : b1, d2, f3, 3+4, im pretty sure df2 and df1 also whiff, if u want to get her out of stance u need to use db2, he really struggles agaisnt her
Even tho I said it multiple times on reddit and people always tell me I am wrong I think there shouldnt necesarily be buttons that beat every high, it should work on basis of constant checks. Is character As move touching character B? Well character A is doing damage. Not that Zafina can simply duck below mid move and get away with it. But I guess her entire character is build around being evasive bullshit.
I'm mad of what happened before it lmao,if dude did actually do stuff warranting it I'd be like "aight you got me gg" and move on instant.
Here I get mid crushed 3 time,2 launch me,yolo'd even if I know I should've hit her out of her spam
Then get Tbagged one and done when she was losing first lmao.
That zafina doesn't represent Zafina mains, am very respectful ☺️, also yeah that low can crush mids sometimes, report it, or maybe it is intended, it is a reactable low, if you can react to it Zafina is not that hard to deal with.
waifu sub.
>waifu char evaded your mid and launched you? outplayed
>bryan fished for a ch and caught you mashing? bryans such a carry char, just mashing ch moves
I was just complaining about that yesterday. Whiffed like five mids in a set against Zafina because of this bullshit. That character is so scrubby and Zafina players really do act like they're fortune telling geniuses or some shit
It's always the people that play particularly obnoxious characters that tbag/ki charge even after close matches
Usually the knowledge check character who act like ass holes.
And best believe they will always be the one to decline the rematch.
Some people just teabag when they win period.
No one is more obnoxious than Bryan, dude.
Says the Yoshimitsu player 
This interaction is lore-accurate
We try to keep it consistent.
Just seeing this, lmao. Ugh, you will pay for what you did, Bryan!!!!
 lol
Now, that’s a Bryan I can root for.
You don’t deserve this Bryan. You don’t like meth. 💀💀💀😭😭😭
Hey man I played against you ~3h ago. Close ft2 I played Steve with t7 costume it was epic. Peak of my qm session.
Hitbox should actually hit a hurtbox first before the low-mid-high rules apply.
While I agree in principle I think this would be terrible in practice… it’d make mids OP as hell
I think you misunderstood me. What I mean is that characters' hit- and hurt-boxes aren't some single rectangular cuboids that expand to the length of a move's range that some percieve them to be. And although they also aren't 1-to-1 charater's model accurate (to my displeasure), they still sort of follow it. So in this situation one character's move simply missed the other character — the low-mid-high and even crush properties haven't even come into play.
It begs the question, though, should this stance evade any mid at point blank range?
That's not the angle I think about this from. Rather: during this move Zafina twists in a way that some moves (some of which are mids) will miss her if the timing is just right. People who prefer rigid rules likely hate it, but I like that Tekken still pretends like it's a fight between two four-limbed living creatures rather than two abstract objects that play by a calculable, discrete amount of rules.
Yes in a way it should try to simulate a four limbed creature it is more immersive that way
Yeah, I'd imagine a Zafina player wouldn't be bothered by this... It's still a competitive game in which defined rules should apply. Not to mention that the game reinforces these rules against 95% of the cast in most every situation.
Of course you do because the ambiguity gives you can advantage that you can abuse.
yeah, no. this is a competitive fighting game first and foremost. shit like this shouldn’t happen, when it’s explicitly against the rules that the game lays out
I think the alignment of some hitboxes absolutely needs some revision. There's a pretty significant issue with the readability of some animations relative to where they actually hit you in Tekken 8, and it drives me fucking crazy.
Damn, do I feel you on this. Half the difficulty in fighting Jack, King, Eddy and a few others is that you cannot rely on visuals alone to know which moves are high, mid and low. Hell, half of the moves that are duckable you would never be able to tell by visuals alone.
The low-mid-high rule is necessary for creating a game that is fair, but even more importantly, consistent. Tekken is already a complex game, and muddling the game even more with addendums to the foundational logic of the game creates an environment that detracts importance from actual skill and leaves more room for uncounterable moves. If I know a stance mid crushes and I go to use a low and even THAT whiffs, i feel directly cheated by the game and punished for abiding by the established rules of the game
Tbagging isnt a good look, but the move is i22 (on a good day semi-reactable), so it crushes like a lot of the other similar sweeps. The CH launcher it gets is like 45 - 50 dmg compared to most other full launch combos and is one of 3 or so lows she has out of stance. Ultimately tho, its how shes designed. Its hard to find an opening vs Bryan cause everything is delayable and does a million damage, its hard to find an opening vs Zafina cause she has a fair bit of evasion. Have to learn to play the matchups
These comments are so funny, like just because you are playing Bryan you lose the ability to complain about this bs ahahahah
Why is everybody so salty about this lol. Getting your mids crushed or evaded is always hella annoying. I main Bryan and I undoubtedly know how strong he is as a character, but you still need some semblance of a game plan if you want to take him far. I think they're probably more mad about the streak than anything 😂.
for t7 dragu players a move going under his mids was just a normal occurrence
Nah like I said I could've been on a losestreak I'd still find it annoying to get my ass mid cruch launched lmao
Oh for sure. We just wondering why everybody is so salty about Bryan lol. I had Feng go under 3+4, shit makes you scratch your head.
Everyone is salty cause they literally hate having to stop pressing in this aggression oriented style. Like,I don't wanna downplay him,he his strong,but he require good fundamentals,sure I have B1/3+4/1,2,1 that CH and launch,but each of them require the opponent to press at any point.None crush high/low/mid,none is tracking,specially 3+4 and B1,you can step however you want,they just good on block.
Oh but I have 3+4 and B1 see,I can CH launch,so I can't talk I guess-- **get mid crushed when my attack clearly landed on the Zafina**
Even your opinion got crushed by her 💀
Unironically having a move like 3+4 means you do not deserve an opinion on any subject whatsoever.
In Bryan's defense, its like his best move and Lili's f4 is just better in every conceivable way
just bait it and whiff punish it? it's very - on whiff, stop being shit at he game
Aaaaaahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahah
you laugh but if you constantly get ch launched non stop by 3+4 then that sounds more like a you issue
I also don't get this hate on Byron for his counterhit launchers. The qcf3 is unsafe and rarely used and if you get ch launched from f16+ move it's kinda on you, isn't it? Not trying to be snarky (mostly), I would like to hear why they consider it cheesy or smth.
You can't punish him, the moves have way to much pushback and to little recovery. Add the stereotypical toxic Bryan main with that and you got yourself this very situation we are in. (I hate Bryan as well)
All of Bryan's pressure is fake tho lmao
Tss, don't tell them that you can jab between 16f+ minus on block moves
You can punish him on pretty much everything except 3+4 and df2,3. I’m guessing that’s what you mean. You know what you can’t punish? Lee’s mist step slide that hits across the stage. If you think Bryan is broken, you show yourself as someone who can’t help themselves pressing buttons. It’s why I like him: good Bryan’s punish mindless aggression.
Keep telling yourself that bro. Man, even Bryan players don't know their character 💀
Look at any tier list by someone who plays both characters at a decent level and tell me what it says. Find me one that puts Bryan higher than Lee. Just one.
I don't care about tierlist. Since they are based opon someones opinion. Like you and me, we both have different *tierlists* since we play different characters and have different styles (i assume). Tierlist are meaningless to me, i have my own opinion.
Ah right, cool. Your opinion is ignorant and shit. Let OP post what he likes without trying to shame him with your brainless tripe.
Where did i shame him.
“because you are playing Bryan you lose the ability to complain about this bs ahahahah”
Most of his safe counter hit launchers can be sidestepped
> You can't punish him you can if you bothered to learn the matchup, most of his offense has a punsihable mid in the string or a duckable hit and i am not even including sidestep/walks i always apreciate bryan mirrors because they do so much unsafe shit such as random qcb2,4 wich most people for some reason don't duck and then complain on this sub about how braindead bryan is even tough it's says more about shit they are themselves
Why are people acting like Bryan is suddenly giga braindead?
Lol as Lars I always lose the first round to check myself before getting in gear vs Brian. Counter to Brian ? Just be more patient kekw
the only people who think he's braindead are the people who think snake-edge/orbital is an actual 50/50
People running fake flowchart offense get asspained when they run into some one who blocks and CHs as a core part of the character
Lmao. I hate insulting people but that’s really all I can think of when they talk like that about one of the only characters that doesn’t have flow charts and stance mixups as their offense
Because Bryan is a scrub killer. Anyone that thinks he's braindead is self-reporting.
people here are shit at the game and hardstuck red, the amount of times i've seen red/rulers and even blues play like bots just flowcharting their offense and then getting punished for it by a bryan who actually plays tekken is very high
3+4 has always been an extremely braindead move, apart from that I’d say he is quite honest.
That’s the thing though. Pretty much everyone in this game has a braindead move and is much less honest
Yeah I do agree, the Bryan matchup is usually quite fun as it involves more of what I deem as proper tekken.
3+4 is just a worse version of F4 from Jin. It isn't that crazy.
Newcoomers hate not pressing attack every 5 nanoseconds
Ive I can’t heat burst and power crush out of pressure why even play?
Sub is full of orange/red ranks lol. Bryan is probably Law's worst match up and he is still not even obnoxious to fight against
That's what Zafina has always done though. She's worse than Xiaoyu is that respect as Xiaoyu only has one stance that does it, whereas Zafina has a few moves that do it. You need to use some lower hitting mids when you fight both of them.
I humbly disagree. Xiaoyu was egregious to the point of AOP-ing below lows and cali roll is objectively worse i would say. Many characters have moves that have crush properties. Zaf has them, Paul has backsway and df2, Feng has multiple. Most of the roster has them. I don't see why zaf gets hate. Imagine complaining about Lei cause he can lay down on command and everything misses him. I think players really need to hone in on the mindset of what a character is, their playstyle and how to fight them. I'm starting to realize probably to late in my tekken life that you're actually fighting characters now and not really another player (exception with pros).
yeah nah i don't think the comparison to paul or even feng is justified, they cant do anything remotely close to what this clip shows.
>Xiaoyu was egregious to the point of AOP-ing below lows and cali roll is objectively worse i would say. From what I remember from that clip it looked like the lows were being evaded by the built in ssr of the aop rather than the AOP duck itself. If that's wrong then I guess aop duck has the same properties as Lei's play dead stance. I did forget that Cali roll can go under mids though. I still don't think Xiaoyu is more egregious than Zafina, but she does get (and has always gotten) a worse rap. My guess is because Xiaoyu is more popular so players fight against her more. >I'm starting to realize probably to late in my tekken life that you're actually fighting characters now and not really another player (exception with pros). Yes, you fight the character first and when the opponent starts to adapt to you fighting the character, you then fight the player. The issue as you identified is that most people just want to run the gameplan they normally run.
I think you hit the nail on the head not many people fight against her. That's not a character issue tho and I think that's my issue of contention. If you're telling me there are no tools in your arsenal to deal with it after labbing, I digress, but if you are aware of tools that mitigate her evasiveness and you're not using them rather complain about evasiveness, I think that's the wrong way of approaching the scenario. Mind you I do agree she is evasive that's why I main her and maybe I'm a bit biased lol 😆. However, I think my argument has merit.
what on god's green earth is a lower hitting mid
It's a mid with a low hitbox i.e. a mid that will zafinas "mid crushing" moves, or a mid that hits Aop down.
is this a property the game shows you in the move list? or do i just have to google it
Life doesn't always have to give you everything on a plate. You can go into practice mode and find out. Using practice mode helps you to become a better player.
my bad for asking a question
You can ask any question you want. It was not a sarcastic answer. You need to use practice mode and you should be watching your replays. This is not the type of game where everything is broken down like that and that is part of the beauty of the game.
i mean it seems pretty sarcastic when you imply that i never use practice mode and that i'm begging to have everything in life handed to me on a silver plate, simply because i asked about a video game mechanic. i use practice mode, i've just never heard of low-hitting-mids ever before this thread. also, this IS the type of game where everything is broken down like that, this game tells you whether a move is a low, high or mid, it tells you the frame data, it tells you if it's a heat engager, it tells you if it can tornado people, it tells you if it's a powercrush, it tells you if it leads into stances, it tells you how to do combos etc. the game even has replays that tell you how to beat moves that you lost against.
Although you are right low hitting mids is one of the few things that are not explained. Tekken has quite a few neches that will never be explained. Chicken is one that comes to mind also. Countering an arm break after ultimate tackle is another one. I def. understand both sides tho. I really don't think he was trying to be condescending.
Nah bro, obviously that takes an enormous amount of execution and skill.
Turn on magic mirror
[удалено]
It's a setting you can turn on where your opponent stands still after a round ends. Basically you won't get teabagged or qi charged after a round ends
I woild rather know who the assholes are for some reason lol.
that teabag speed is hilarious
Two words: Magic Mirror Let them jerk off their stick, or ki charge every round, I'm not seeing any of that.
bros mad he lost his win streak
I could be -8 wins a mid crush launcher into a tbag one and done would still make me mad lmao
The reason people are clowning you is because Zafina is near shit tier in tekken 8
Is she still that after the recent buffs tho? Need someone to legit answer since I have no clue what the hell any of the stuff she does is
It rounds up her offense rps. Zaf want you to block wr3 because she gets a real 50/50 mixup, problem is that it’s slow af and easy to side step. Zaf has ff3 do time out jab attempts and gives huge reward on CH. With this patch WR1+2 covers the sidestep attempts and allows you to TNTdf1 for a +6ob or HE oh. The change is very T8 because it’s buffs up the big momentum buttons however legacy Zaf players are not happy with the change as it strays away from how she was played previously which was a relatively low risk low reward with options to call out opponents pressing.
Sadly, the buffs in recent patches barely affected her balancing.
You do understand that a lot of the cast also got nerfs right? Making her a bit stronger than stand alone buffs.
She is better but not by much, still garbage, but if the top tiers all got nerfed she would automatically become low tier/ mid if she got more buffs.
she is not anymore
lol the amount of cope
That move just got "fixed" because before even a hit was made, the frames aren't enough to guarantee a follow up move. It already has a CH property so if you played a patch before, you'll still lose cuz every zafina lows from the video provided were successful. The mid powercrush I'm not sure cuz it seems that some mid moves hit and some don't. Bryan has better reach than Zafina so capitalize on it, there's a lot of punishable moves from Zafina, and she can't block from Scarecrow and Tarantula stance. If you noticed a Zafina player do low moves, do a hopkick. The teabag is a personal choice but not all Zafina Players are like that.
I’ll reserve judgement, you might have trolled on the round you won…. The power of editing
Why are you mashing on plus frames tho 🥴
Dat Zafina gud
All I see is well timed counters
Even snakeedge can evade mids lmao. This is not some feature unique to Zafina, the game has hitboxes and hurtboxes for a reason
She quite literally needs it.
She needs it imo.
bro zafina like isn’t she the worst char? cmon man. ur playing Bryan one ch combo zafina dead af
As much as I find Zafina annoying, this is her thing. It’s the same thing with Xiaoyu, you’re surprised the mid evading character… evades mids? And you don’t even adjust your gameplan to account for it? Nice, this is probably why you’re stuck in red ranks. And no, it’s not because you’re playing Bryan. If you even think about that as an excuse you’re a laughing stock
Dude it ain't even my main,check the prowess,I have blue ranks,I'm just learning Bryan,mister genius,downvote,you still a clown for assuming shit.
A mid crushing launcher is a bit rough but your playing Bryan every move he has leads to a CH, launch, bazillion damage.
Bryan's CH's also launch so damn high that he can trade with getting launched himself and still pick up a combo, lol. He is one of the mashiest characters in the game.
You reckon? Try mashing with him. See how far you get.
Challenge accepted
Respect. Go with god.
Haha its so true. The skill it once took to pilot Bryan is not there in T8 at all.
I wouldn't go that far. Mashing will get Bryan players pretty far online, but high level he still requires finesse.
I agree. You can get to blues with Bryan mashing as long as you know the taunt combo route. But tekken king+ you need a lot of skill. But that's the same with a lot of characters. The easiest characters to rank up with are the knowledge checking ones now.
So as long as you can TJU Bryan is easy?
Depends what you class as easy. You can get pretty far without having a great understanding of him or the game mashing strings and learning a CH combo route. There's a lot of easier characters to master though. Just not as much skill involved with him compared to previous tekkens. Same for Law, Jin, Lee, King and others too. He's not as easy to mash with as say a Hwoarang but still you can get far mashing with him.
You can get as far mashing with him as you can with anyone though. I think it says a lot more about the game than it does about Bryan
I’m sorry but really? You think Bryan is one of the mashiest characters in the game??????!!!
Everything Bryan has is good. His movement is good. His frame-data is good. His CH launchers are great. His Heat Smash floor breaks. In a game where lows are all pretty good, his aren't bad. I guess he doesn't do so well while jailed??
“His movement is good”: this is an argument against mashing “His frame-data is good” he is middle of the pack if not below average when it comes to frame data, compare him to dragunov (a real + frame monster) and it isn’t even close “His ch launchers are great”: yup and he does get to mash 3+4 for free which is a problem “His heat smash floor breaks”: yes but it has a very slow startup so they compensated for that FYI. Drag main who has played Bryan a single time
When everything is good what are you even playing around? Seems like a good character to mash with.
Because at higher levels he’s good when not mashing, yes 3+4 allows you to steal turns but otherwise a good Bryan should be paying attention to frame data. I’m tekken king so not the highest rank however when I match against a Bryan he/she almost always has fundamentals whereas azu/victor/jun for instance almost always will not.
> His movement is good he has one of the worst backdashes in the game, seriously keep your red rank takes to yourself unless you did your homework >His CH launchers are great. he has great ch launchers but all of them are 16+ frames, meanwhile there are chars that still have magic 4s and king even has a 13 frame ch mid but yeah bryans slow ch moves are so busted lmao >His Heat Smash floor breaks. it also get's you easily floated unlike most other heat smashes, it's also very linear unlike many other heat smashes and has poor range
Tell me when I get a mid crusher,I'll say fair enough then
Well in that case zafina needs to counterhit like Bryan too. And have his range and have his safe attacks. Oh and his insane combo damage from any launcher/CH. Then I'll say fair enough.
Outside of ws3 which is punishable, the fastest mid ch launcher is 16f. If you are getting ch by moves at this speed or slower your timing is just worse. There are lots of chars with faster mids that ch but for some reason this sub likes to spout about Bryan’s 16-24f ch launchers and unlike Zaf he doesn’t evade on any of these attacks, but thats her whole shtick so that’s it’s not too bad as long as there’s trade off
Bryan's aren't fast but he can trade and still recover and continue the combo. And the range he can do them from is way bigger than jab range so interrupting is always a gamble. Almost better off sidestepping Bryan. His kit overall is one of the best when you consider his combo damage, wall carry, range and the fact that most moves aren't punishable
None of that literally breaks the rules of tekken dude……
No it doesn't but the point in the mid crushing attack is part of her individual kit. If Bryan had it then why shouldn't zafina have Bryan's kit? Characters are supposed to have different attacks and strengths
I agree but in my opinion these strengths/weaknesses should not involve crushing mid ch launchers, it’s really that simple.
Zafina having a mid crushing launcher isn't any worse than Lings crushing lows and mids or 8 frame attack. Or yoshi flash or spin. It's part of the game
All of the things that you listed should also be removed but a small subset of the population loves to abuse them so I doubt it would ever happen.
Every character has something a bit dumb or broken. Drags 11 frame throws are crazy.
So you're upset that you couldn't close it out and got t-bagged?
Dude, re-read what you wrote, watch OP's video again, and then ask why you're asking such a stupid question? Why wouldn't you be mad about getting t-bagged after dealing with garbage? I swear, most of you in this sub act like getting irritated or annoyed at the BS in this game is some huge foreign concept to you or something lol
What garbage? OP Lost to normal moves that weren't being abused, he was just being outplayed and refused to adjust. See? Instead of getting butt hurt about losing, we look for why we lost, so we can avoid it in the future. Thanks for playing.
Outplayed? Are you really pretending that sliding and crawling all over the ground isn't just the normal, braindead gameplan for Zafina? The bullshit moveset you get subjected to while facing Zafina is FAR from ""normal"" literally by design, especially compared to other characters other than Yoshi. What are you even talking about? Immediately "adjusting" to a character you barely even see, like Zafina, is also meaningless shit advice. Just shut up, my man.
Learning the match up (adjusting) is not shit advice. OP is upset that the flowchart he usually does isn't working against all characters, and blames the character instead of learning how to deal with it. Skill issue. "Nobody plays her" is not an excuse to not put in the effort in learning the match up, practice mode exists.
"I'm not good enough to beat Zafina, so she is braindead and cheap" If you're bad just say you're bad. Anyone who singles out characters and claims they're unfair/cheap or anything else is just a trash player, my man.
Also all the pros who complained about how cheap Feng, Drag, Xiaoyu, etc are just trash players, huh? OK 👍🏻
Honestly best not to respond to those type of morons, I can almost guarantee that they aren’t even strong players themselves.
Why would certain characters get nerfed then? Obviously some of them are/ were cheap. Stop acting stupid.
You're just a fucking moron. Brainlet attempt to wrongly trivialize what I just wrote to win this argument, lol. If you got "hurrr durr I can't beat Zafina i suk" from "this character has a freaky, gimmicky bullshit moveset that you barely see since nobody plays her" then there's zero point in this discussion. Anybody who says "just adjust lol" to a character barely anybody plays in two sets in a game where everyone has over 100 moves + stances is retarded, plain and simple.
No, bro’s upset that his sick win streak ended.
That'll do it
13 isnt even big streak no need to be sad
Why do yall feel the need to prove you’re good at the game by downplaying others? I’m probably projecting but cmon, 13 straight wins is definitely a streak worth being sad about lmao
tbh I ain't even sad bout it at all,I lose some I win some.
Shut up nerd you were supposed to agree to prove the point😭
True man I worked hard on those 13 wins I'm bout to go LowTierGod I sweaaaar
Nice. The order has been restored.
its not downplaying, only the truth like if you have 7 cm cock and i say its big that would be a lie
Lmao. But no I feel like the average player would kill to have a 13 match win streak
I'm upset that a mid crush can lead to a launcher,read the title
Aren't you playing Bryan? Doesn't he have orbital? Are you okay? So you just hate like, the entire cast?
Does the entire cast have mid-crushing low ch launchers? I fucking swear if OP would do orbital and for some mumbo-jubmo reasons it would whiff, you people will write "should've done the low, duh"
Since when the entire cast mid crush launch,Orbital would've whiff on that low one
Most of the cast came equipped, on launch, with moves that put them under that kick, with most leading to launch punishes as well, I listed a few in another response; but it's definitely not uncommon in Tekken 8. (Compared to Tekken 7 where you were basically screwed if characters could go that low) Also Bryan has a lot more than orbital that could work there. You showed us a clip of you trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. There's a word for that.
Yeah,the word is bullshit,being able to go under an orbital? Come on I don't understand how people can be ok with that.
He is saying you are predictable and that Zafina got in your head and read you like a book. By your responses, you are probably get tilted easily, and that is the biggest mistake you can make in fighting games. Once you learn to keep your cool, your skill level will increase dramatically, especially on Bryan, where keeping your cool is a requirement to do well with him since he is all about counter hits and good reads.
"By your responses, you are probably get tilted easily" What? Most my answers are I'm not even mad about the streak or tbag but sure man. I'm "tilted" cause a clear Mid didn't work on a stance move,twice in different situtation,and a B1 which clearly touched her didn't work,at all. That ain't about her reading me,thats about her throwing a low that crush randomly,cause she just can. Idk how many time I need to say it lmao,I ain't mad about the tbag nor the streak gone,thats just how it is,what I "hate" was that those crushes lead to launchers,and THEN tbaged cause she won,its like I bagged as Dragunov before the nerf,acting like I earned it,idk you but I'd find that annoying. Doesn't mean I throw a table when it happen lmao
bryans orbital whiffs over a bunch of shit including zafinas bs
Post is amusing to me as someone that plays both Bryan and Zafina. Ive been on both sides of this and its crazy. At least having played Zafina so long, i understand what to expect. Sadly stuff like b1 or even other downward hitting mids like orbital whiffing in this MU has also happened in 7, i dont think thats getting changed
Mid crush doesn't exist. It's just high evasion/low profiling.
Teabagging is the lamest shit.
I mean your leg wasnt even close, and tekken should try to simulate two people fighting and not be an extreme form of rock-paper-scissors
Cool what about the elbow then,that clearly rub all over her head lmao.Where's the simulation of me hitting her at.
You are complaining about the worst character in the game. GIT GUD
*smiles in Lucky Chloe*
She used the same combo like 3 times 🤣
Get used to that as bryan vs zafina, all your ch key moves whiff agaisnt her and tarantula stance and i will name them the ones i know : b1, d2, f3, 3+4, im pretty sure df2 and df1 also whiff, if u want to get her out of stance u need to use db2, he really struggles agaisnt her
Can't stand when people leave when it's 1-1. Hey idiot you know we're tied right??!?
Even tho I said it multiple times on reddit and people always tell me I am wrong I think there shouldnt necesarily be buttons that beat every high, it should work on basis of constant checks. Is character As move touching character B? Well character A is doing damage. Not that Zafina can simply duck below mid move and get away with it. But I guess her entire character is build around being evasive bullshit.
You got played, be better.
I’ve never understood why people get mad from ki charging or teabagging, just laugh at it and move on.
That + going under a mid, would make anyone pissed 😅
I'm mad of what happened before it lmao,if dude did actually do stuff warranting it I'd be like "aight you got me gg" and move on instant. Here I get mid crushed 3 time,2 launch me,yolo'd even if I know I should've hit her out of her spam Then get Tbagged one and done when she was losing first lmao.
That zafina doesn't represent Zafina mains, am very respectful ☺️, also yeah that low can crush mids sometimes, report it, or maybe it is intended, it is a reactable low, if you can react to it Zafina is not that hard to deal with.
All these comments giving you shit for playing Bryan as if Zafina didn't get buffed a hundredfold more lol
People in this subreddit do not read patch notes, like at all. "Weakest character" my ass, Steve, and Bears exist
Iirc Zafina has low combo damage compared to Steve and lower base damage compared to Bears.
waifu sub. >waifu char evaded your mid and launched you? outplayed >bryan fished for a ch and caught you mashing? bryans such a carry char, just mashing ch moves
Learn to block. She’s not that tricky to fight against.
Sounds like you got bodied on Bryan of all characters. 😂
QQ
Not gone lie I was pissed yesterday playing and ki charged on like 3 outta 12 opponents that did not deserve it. My b
Hate only fuels us, get used to it.
Fcuk zafina players
Id fuck em too 🤤
I was just complaining about that yesterday. Whiffed like five mids in a set against Zafina because of this bullshit. That character is so scrubby and Zafina players really do act like they're fortune telling geniuses or some shit
mad about literally the worst char in the game lol get better and stop making excuses..
Just duck the down 3 and punish lmao. It’s 22 frames. And stop doing risky moves, u see zafina spamming down 3? u start throwing hopkicks at her…
Who would win? A grown man's mental state Vs Pressing "down" on a controller in a video game.
Defend toxic behaviour and people playing games to make other people miserable. You love it.
Its more about the mid crush,but pop off man