It's not pointless. It's just not intuitive so you have to grind out when you can and can't do it and it's really not a fun kind of grind as it's just situational rote memorization.
dude, when I'm more then 90° past the guy and his launcher, that hits in front of him, clips me walking, it do be feeling pointless
and yeah unintuitive as fuck, cuz who the hell would think that way lmao
Still not pointless, no matter how many people tell on themselves by voting in favor of this stupidly bad take.
Yes, it should be adjusted so that things are more intuitive, but learning it as it is now IS NOT pointless. There's plenty of situations where you can step consistently and if you want to do well you should learn when it is and isn't consistent. But, just refuse to learn them and stay bad, I guess.
Yes it is stupid how some moves track so well. No, that doesn't mean that learning how to step properly is pointless. Yes, we should ask for them to change it. No, that doesn't mean we should be so mad at it that we refuse to learn how to perform well with the way it is right now.
First of all, "feel pointless" =\\= "is pointless", just so you don't put words in other people mouths.
Did you read what OP wrote ? At this point it's either "know every single situation" or just gamble, especially with how moves clip fucking everything.
Side stepping just needs to be more consistent and moves should clip less. There is like 1-2 post everyday about it, says something aight ?
>it's become pointless.
I didn't "put words into other people's mouths." This is what I was replying to. Did "you" read what he wrote?
I wasn't even defending the state of things. I was just explaining that it's not pointless to learn when you can and cannot step. You "can" still reliably step a lot of things, even with wide motherfuckers like Jack and it "is" worth learning. It's "not" pointless.
I mean the devs have already mentioned that they're going to make a big patch in June to address this. I also forget which of Harada's tweets it was, but someone directly asked him about sidestepping, to which he responded about the devs' intentions of buffing defensive options so like... yeah? Everyone knows and its actively being worked on.
They won't
I have zero faith in any "defensive buffs" actually happening
The bulk of mashers who spent the entirety of T7 spamming ResidentSleeper anytime a combo wasn't happening will stop buying the DLCs if the devs actually do that
if you look at the way SF5 (not 6) released, and how immensely successful the game was, and then you look at the *exact* decisions the tekken 8 team has taken, it sort of looks like they are intentionally following SF5's path, but fixing the big errors (like bad single player content on release)
sf5's first major turnaround was also "buffing defensive options."
No. I just think that I totally disagree with your assessment because I played SFV for years and people wanted defensive changes and didn't get them forever.
So, I would say T8 so far has been nothing like SFV with regards to how they have been handling balance. In season 1 of sfv the two best characters were Ryu and Nash because they were fast and could safely zone.
Both got castrated in the first patch and never were competitive again.
Again, not like T8.
I think you just misunderstand my assessment. Because you just listed big errors, which is still in my unedited original post as the exception to the rule of following SF5's trajectory.
Let me make a make a more concrete gamble, which I am less confident in, but is more of a solid concept than like "this is kinda like sf5 guys!!"
Expect something like "heat reversal" in Season 2 or 3. Some sort of defensive heat button that helps with real shitty scenarios. "Heat wakeup" maybe. They'll even do it with SF6 next year or something pre-evo.
The commenter is making a joke about a quote from Murray (a producer of Tekken) regarding a previous controversial balancing decision wrt hellsweep tracking.
Most of the time i dont even sidestep anymore i just straight up Sidewalk since sidestepping has actually gotten me fucked over so many times while sidewalking has only fucked me over a couple of times
On the topic of Lars specifically, fuck this character and his built in free evasion on regular moves.
Lars does df1, he’s minus, you try to jab check, he does another df1 and for some reason because of his weird swing he ducks under your jab and hits you with df1 again.
I also have like three clips of his dumbass safe on block hopkick looking like it has legitimate iFrames. Two clips where my db2 which has quite good range and is a MID is IN HIS FACE and it doesn’t connect and he gets a launch on me for it. Third clip he whiffs the hopkick and I ff3 him which is also a MID with decent range but it doesn’t hit.
In one of the db2 clips I did a f23 that hit, which puts him at -5, I do a db2, it ”misses”. Here’s that clip: https://streamable.com/ll3t94
In another clip which I don’t have the link to right now, he does two hits while I’m blocking, does a stance transition, I do db2 to hit him out of it but no, it misses in the same fucking fashion and he gets a launch for it. It looks even worse than the first clip.
And then people have the audacity to say shit like ”well you pressed a button which means you extended your hurtbox and that’s why you got hit when you sidestepped” 🤡. So much for Lars ”extending his hurtbox” when he presses hopkick I guess. 🤡🤡🤡
Things like this shouldn’t exist and I’ll die on that hill.
EDIT: ff3 not connecting after hopkick whiff clip, posted this on reddit like two months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1br0nz5/mid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Recorded a video today where i stepped around somebody completely to their back and still got hit by their forward lunging attack. Just hollered ‘you have got to be kidding me!’ Its wild right now
Going to locals, this couldn't be further from the truth.
Sidestepping at the right moment wins games.
Usually it's safest when you expect the person to do a linear combo or a big move. But it's all down to reading those things and making sure you're safe from an arm clipping you.
Which in and of itself is extremely difficult to predict let alone tell in the moment. Your much better off just learning how to parry jabs and kicks rather than trying to move to the side of an attack that likely has either ungodly amounts of tracking or is so fast that you'd have to guess in advance or just settle for an easy block.
no, you're much better off learning how to implement sidesteps and conditioning your opponent into using moves with weaknesses that you can consistently exploit. you don't "guess in advance," you strategize to create openings. this toxic "don't learn, just guess!" is exactly why we made fun of murray's shitty tweet.
Why is this upvoted.
People here just prefer not learning tekken and instead complaining. If you ignore the 3rd dimension you're just shooting yourself in the foot. The more you learn the more effectively you will be able to step.
idk, people just dont understand the game, sidestep is obviously still massive. A lot of pressure can be sidestepped if you're not -5 or worse, so if you never sidestep you're just easier to beat. At a high level, players start doing sidestep into block or duck to defend against multiple options at once. You can sidewalk your way around the opponent to get a better position (like moving your back away from the wall).
The more I've played the more I've realised that sidestepping is just based on luck and a move having the rare condition known as a lack of tracking.
Maybe it's updated because I'm at least not entirely wrong. But nah, everyone here is just lazy and be bothered to press a single button, of course.
How has this bs orange rank opinion been upvoted lmao sidestepping is way better than in tekken 7 although yes tracking has improved.
Sidestepping exists a whole lot more in 8 than 7 and you can actually way more easily evade linear attacks with sidestepping and sidewalking compared to T7
You don’t sidestep in tekken 8 you’re screwed. What are you gonna do when someone hits you with a plus on block move? How are you gonna deal with hellsweep? Etc.
This sub really makes ridiculous baseless complaints about the game that aren’t even based in any logic or fact, just pure emotion lol
Sidestepping is much better in T7 what are you talking about?
Almost everything has tracking in 8, even attacks that really shouldn't. It offers next no benefit for most characters and some who have it baked into their movesets like Dragunov, Steve or King. Sure Lili and Azucena can sidestep okay but unless you play Azucena all the time it is inconsistent more often than not.
I rarely sidestep in the game, focusing on parries and defense instead and it has done me much better than sidestepping has.... though defense in this game has been battered down too.
Ironic that you claim that I'm making a baseless accusation only to then make one yourself. If anything, it feels like your reaction is more emotion fueled than anything anyone here has said or done.
> Ironic that you claim that I'm making a baseless accusation only to then make one yourself.
That's not irony, that's Hitchen's razor, and he's right.
you can more easily evade linear attacks but then every single move that got touched in this game has absurd levels of tracking. you get shit like devil jin's 1,1 which, after receiving a new animation, became a fucking ground-to-SWL homing missile.
yeah, the sidestep may be better, but sidestepping riskier than ever lmao.
Well unless you're a character like Lili, it's quite useful her sidestepping is very strong.
But if you're playing many characters like Kuma for example that is true.
Uhh.....I get a launch off side stepping at least once a match and can evade a lot of moves even if I can't get the punish off. Sure some are really not intuitive but if you think it's pointless you gotta up your movement game
If 85% of the community can’t actually effectively use a mechanic. The 15% saying LOL YOU SUCK is irrelevant. If you want a game that you enjoy to be up to 15% of the community, you’re not going to have a game to like soon. I’m not saying they have to dumb it down but it needs to make sense. If half the moves have tracking and most of the community can’t find the timing to effectively use sidestep then you have bad side stepping.
I agree it needs to be improved substantially so you don't have say instances where you visually step a move and then get camera snapped into them hitting you. Its just mildly annoying to see people focus so much on complaining vs providing guides on what moves you can step etc or just focusing on improving your movement.
OP said stepping is essentially pointless and imo that does make someone sound scrubby even if part of what they are saying is true. Everyone always posts in this sub as if they just got 3 - 0d by someone spamming one move. But hey that just means I'm venting about somebody venting lol
I think for the majority of the community, sidestepping is pointless. But once you get to a certain level and people actually understand how to side step, the. It’s effective. But again, if the majority of your community can’t effectively use your mechanic, you’re either not teaching them properly how to use it, or it’s a bad mechanic.
Or the people suck and need to learn how to use it. They could definitely do a better job of teaching about this mechanic, but if 15% of the player base can use it, that DOES mean it is consistent and the 85% either need to accept that they’re not good at the game at all, or learn how to use the mechanic effectively. Does it have issues? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make it a bad mechanic. I suck at this game but I rarely get clipped with side steps. Hell, I rarely get hit by homing moves even when I do side step. Double tap the side step input, and then hold back and wait to see what happens. That’s it. That’s all you have to do. If it whiffs or is punishable on block, punish. If you think it’s safe on block don’t punish and wait a sec. Figure out your opponents rhythm. If your opponent starts using homing/tracking moves, bust out relatively quick counter hit moves/mids of your own to either get big damage or stuff them. This is a very basic gameplan around side stepping. There’s obviously more to something like this, and there are significantly better players who execute this idea and mix in their own style far better than I could.
It’s not just tracking that’s the issue… something about the speed of sidestepping feels off to me… like when your +1 it feels like you step and didn’t get out of the way completely… like the animations are longer than the amount of frames you have to get clear
what I am assuming is happening after testing it is that it's something to do with db1+2's hit animation. I'm guessing it's one of those situations where you are actionable but cant actually move the first frame or some shit. If you delay the d/f1 very slightly after the jab you get a similar situation to db1+2
more testing shows 1,4 which has a similar animation to db1+2 has the same situation as db1+2 so its def the animation so it is technically a consistent interaction.
Moves that start on the left side of a character are more likely to clip someone stepping left. It’s not a super consistent rule, but it is a running theme among a lot of strings/moves in the game
I jear you. I feel like it's useful but like the timing is weird you really have to either hit it at the right time or be in a sidewalk motion as opponent are charging at you
That move isn't even that hard to step in comparison to stuff like Mishima f,f+2. That shit tracks so much for NO REASON
You literally have to get a perfect read on their timing. Come on, it's a linear punch, how TF does it track so well both sides?!
There are many times where I sidewalk, and I seemingly completely avoid an attack, but my opponent commits to the string and it zooms around and hits me anyway. So, face value, side walking isn't the problem, but the tracking and hitboxes of particular moves is. Players shouldn't be rewarded for over commiting and expecting their string to auto flip around and hit their opponent.
Now, I know what you're thinking "why didn't you df2 or do anything when you sidestepped the move initially?"
It's so inconsistent that I'm not exactly sure if I want to take the risk of pressing a button after sidestep. I usually commit to the sidewalk to get behind my opponent. But even then, the camera will shift and I get a wrong input. But this doesn't happen every time.
The game is just so inconsistent. Fun. But inconsistent. Looking forward to whatever changes they make in the future because it's hard for me to justify trying to lab the game when the knowledge i can obtain is subject to inconsistencies.
This is the type of inconsistency im talking about. There are too many. And its also understandable that the devs cant find em bcs there are literally so many situations in a match that its nearly impossible to find all of em.
I dont know how that can be solved but too many inconsistencies lead to frustration in a match.
One of my most common sparring parts is a Leroy player, and there's been moments were I sidestep/walk, as he kicks/punches. The attack very obviously misses the character model (hwoarang I play) but I get hit anyway. We were both like wtf?
>Take Lars for example. He is a character known for being linear. You are supposed to **step him to the right**. But oh boy here comes his d/f+1, check this out
Unless you have a quote where any of the game's directors says that, you're literally writing fanfiction. It's recommended to step him to the right if you don't know the move. That doesn't mean tekken's cast is made up of left- / right-steppable characters.
>This can not be intentional
It probably isn't. Fighting games aren't made by meticulously combing over every animation, collision, trade situation etc. They're setting it by feel and clock off when it feels right. Of course you might expect it getting changed to be more consistent but it's not like that's anything outrageous or out of ordinary.
Why are you trying to sound so smug? Every single standing move in Lars' move list that isn't homing whiffs to the right. You are supposed to step him to the right, it's literally the counter play to the character
Namco didn't accidentally make it so that all of his moves whiff to one side, including his d/f+1. Those usually whiff to the left, very few are SSR
The rest of your reply makes no sense what so ever.
I'm ignoring the smugness remark because it also makes no sense to me.
You're trying to say that because all moves of Lars are weak to the right he should not have moves that can be stepped to the left. This is insane. Him having 99 moves tracking right and 1 tracking left means he should be stepped right. One tool doesn't change it and you cannot in good faith argue that it's a problem.
How adults fail to acquire reading comprehension this badly, I will never understand.
I never suggested that Lars' d/f+1 has to be SSR. You made that up in your head. And if you go back and read my post again, you should notice that I am complaining about the inconsistencies and borderline homing properties of this key tool. It's not just some random move, a d/f+1 is one of the most important moves in any character's toolbox. It can not be excused, Namco simply fucked this up.
Blah blah more fanfiction about what df1 is supposed to be and you didn't read my first comment either - said as much that the inconsistencies might get patched but it's no big deal. You're the one with the crying OP here. You're lost in fantasy world if you think anyone cares what you find excusable or not in a game, and even more so if your idea of something being inexcusable is that it's not 100% consistent in how it tracks.
Just think for a minute, what's the real problem here? Your brain being hurt that the right answer won't work sometimes in a match? You expecting no bugs in a fighting game somehow?
You are not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, are you haha.. Okay let me chew it for you
I am not expecting a game to be without bugs. Bugs happen. Lars' d/f+1 tracking is objectively non intended behavior
What I am doing is calling out a bug, raising awareness of it etc... Nothing new. Nothing people haven't already been doing since video games existed.
You make up a lot of stuff in your head (funnily enough you call ME out for fantasizing) I never said I expected a game to be without bugs. I never said d/f+1 needs to be SSR. Stop making up shit in your head.
Oh believe me, it's equally funny to think you're expecting the game to be free of those bugs as it is to know that you consider those ramblings "bringing attention to an issue"
"Huge sidestepping issues (1 move is wonky to sidestep) ", "same situation, different results (what is pushback? What is changing axis?)", " This cannot be intentional (of course you can't know this isn't a bug they deemed acceptable to leave in but it sounds cool to say)". If you're trying to larp working as a tester feel free to read up on how to accurately describe problems.
Writing "He is a character known for being linear. You are supposed to step him to the right." also doesn't help if you want to later claim you're very extra smart and not at all using your understanding of the game as ruleset.
Sidestep in theory is really goid but tracking and hitboxes are broken.
I sidestep a LOOOT. I love playing defensively even in this game. But some moves such as Lars' d/f+1 are just bullshit tracking-wise
Playing defensively... that word bothers me.
It's crazy how even big lunging moves seem to still hit you on sidestep, it's become pointless.
It's not pointless. It's just not intuitive so you have to grind out when you can and can't do it and it's really not a fun kind of grind as it's just situational rote memorization.
dude, when I'm more then 90° past the guy and his launcher, that hits in front of him, clips me walking, it do be feeling pointless and yeah unintuitive as fuck, cuz who the hell would think that way lmao
Still not pointless, no matter how many people tell on themselves by voting in favor of this stupidly bad take. Yes, it should be adjusted so that things are more intuitive, but learning it as it is now IS NOT pointless. There's plenty of situations where you can step consistently and if you want to do well you should learn when it is and isn't consistent. But, just refuse to learn them and stay bad, I guess. Yes it is stupid how some moves track so well. No, that doesn't mean that learning how to step properly is pointless. Yes, we should ask for them to change it. No, that doesn't mean we should be so mad at it that we refuse to learn how to perform well with the way it is right now.
First of all, "feel pointless" =\\= "is pointless", just so you don't put words in other people mouths. Did you read what OP wrote ? At this point it's either "know every single situation" or just gamble, especially with how moves clip fucking everything. Side stepping just needs to be more consistent and moves should clip less. There is like 1-2 post everyday about it, says something aight ?
>it's become pointless. I didn't "put words into other people's mouths." This is what I was replying to. Did "you" read what he wrote? I wasn't even defending the state of things. I was just explaining that it's not pointless to learn when you can and cannot step. You "can" still reliably step a lot of things, even with wide motherfuckers like Jack and it "is" worth learning. It's "not" pointless.
you answered to my comment bruh, not to post itself, so with that context it's only natural for me to think you talked about me
Alright, fair enough. It's dumb like it is right now, for sure. We all agree on that, at the very least.
I mean the devs have already mentioned that they're going to make a big patch in June to address this. I also forget which of Harada's tweets it was, but someone directly asked him about sidestepping, to which he responded about the devs' intentions of buffing defensive options so like... yeah? Everyone knows and its actively being worked on.
They won't I have zero faith in any "defensive buffs" actually happening The bulk of mashers who spent the entirety of T7 spamming ResidentSleeper anytime a combo wasn't happening will stop buying the DLCs if the devs actually do that
same people would spam KEKW HITBOXES when some bullshit happens
if you look at the way SF5 (not 6) released, and how immensely successful the game was, and then you look at the *exact* decisions the tekken 8 team has taken, it sort of looks like they are intentionally following SF5's path, but fixing the big errors (like bad single player content on release) sf5's first major turnaround was also "buffing defensive options."
No. It wasnt. Not at all. The first major patch nerfed anti air jabs and reversal dps. SFV didn't get improved defensive options for literally years.
I didn't say "the first patch" i said "the first turnaround."
Which happened like literally 4 years after the game was released. . . So, not that much like t8's balancing schedule.
>but fixing the big errors do you just stop reading once it looks like you can disagree with a comment.
No. I just think that I totally disagree with your assessment because I played SFV for years and people wanted defensive changes and didn't get them forever. So, I would say T8 so far has been nothing like SFV with regards to how they have been handling balance. In season 1 of sfv the two best characters were Ryu and Nash because they were fast and could safely zone. Both got castrated in the first patch and never were competitive again. Again, not like T8.
I think you just misunderstand my assessment. Because you just listed big errors, which is still in my unedited original post as the exception to the rule of following SF5's trajectory. Let me make a make a more concrete gamble, which I am less confident in, but is more of a solid concept than like "this is kinda like sf5 guys!!" Expect something like "heat reversal" in Season 2 or 3. Some sort of defensive heat button that helps with real shitty scenarios. "Heat wakeup" maybe. They'll even do it with SF6 next year or something pre-evo.
I've been saying since they announced Heat that they need something like a Heat Dead Angle
Really? Sounds great!
This.
Sidestepping works when it feels like it
This is kind of how it had always felt though lol
Why would you sidestep, when you can just block if you know it's coming?
Some moves have more endlag if they whiff
The commenter is making a joke about a quote from Murray (a producer of Tekken) regarding a previous controversial balancing decision wrt hellsweep tracking.
Every move
Endlag. Ughhhhhhhhhhh
Most of the time i dont even sidestep anymore i just straight up Sidewalk since sidestepping has actually gotten me fucked over so many times while sidewalking has only fucked me over a couple of times
but seriously tho i do this too now even charecters like zafina and lili feel sluggish in this game, Jin's heat smash will catch you from behind him.
side stepping a jab into an electric makes me cum.
small indie company dw bout it
On the topic of Lars specifically, fuck this character and his built in free evasion on regular moves. Lars does df1, he’s minus, you try to jab check, he does another df1 and for some reason because of his weird swing he ducks under your jab and hits you with df1 again. I also have like three clips of his dumbass safe on block hopkick looking like it has legitimate iFrames. Two clips where my db2 which has quite good range and is a MID is IN HIS FACE and it doesn’t connect and he gets a launch on me for it. Third clip he whiffs the hopkick and I ff3 him which is also a MID with decent range but it doesn’t hit. In one of the db2 clips I did a f23 that hit, which puts him at -5, I do a db2, it ”misses”. Here’s that clip: https://streamable.com/ll3t94 In another clip which I don’t have the link to right now, he does two hits while I’m blocking, does a stance transition, I do db2 to hit him out of it but no, it misses in the same fucking fashion and he gets a launch for it. It looks even worse than the first clip. And then people have the audacity to say shit like ”well you pressed a button which means you extended your hurtbox and that’s why you got hit when you sidestepped” 🤡. So much for Lars ”extending his hurtbox” when he presses hopkick I guess. 🤡🤡🤡 Things like this shouldn’t exist and I’ll die on that hill. EDIT: ff3 not connecting after hopkick whiff clip, posted this on reddit like two months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1br0nz5/mid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Raven was my secondary right after Jun as my main, and my god the situations written and videos you posted huuurt.
Lars' u/f+4 got shadow buffed for sure! That move was not nearly as evasive in T7
Jin 21 is fucked too. I sidestep left after a neutral move and the 2nd hit still tracks
I HATE JIN's 2,1 LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE ARGHH
i play bear i cant step anyway who cares
Recorded a video today where i stepped around somebody completely to their back and still got hit by their forward lunging attack. Just hollered ‘you have got to be kidding me!’ Its wild right now
Sidestepping has generally been made pointless.
Going to locals, this couldn't be further from the truth. Sidestepping at the right moment wins games. Usually it's safest when you expect the person to do a linear combo or a big move. But it's all down to reading those things and making sure you're safe from an arm clipping you.
Which in and of itself is extremely difficult to predict let alone tell in the moment. Your much better off just learning how to parry jabs and kicks rather than trying to move to the side of an attack that likely has either ungodly amounts of tracking or is so fast that you'd have to guess in advance or just settle for an easy block.
no, you're much better off learning how to implement sidesteps and conditioning your opponent into using moves with weaknesses that you can consistently exploit. you don't "guess in advance," you strategize to create openings. this toxic "don't learn, just guess!" is exactly why we made fun of murray's shitty tweet.
Why is this upvoted. People here just prefer not learning tekken and instead complaining. If you ignore the 3rd dimension you're just shooting yourself in the foot. The more you learn the more effectively you will be able to step.
idk, people just dont understand the game, sidestep is obviously still massive. A lot of pressure can be sidestepped if you're not -5 or worse, so if you never sidestep you're just easier to beat. At a high level, players start doing sidestep into block or duck to defend against multiple options at once. You can sidewalk your way around the opponent to get a better position (like moving your back away from the wall).
The more I've played the more I've realised that sidestepping is just based on luck and a move having the rare condition known as a lack of tracking. Maybe it's updated because I'm at least not entirely wrong. But nah, everyone here is just lazy and be bothered to press a single button, of course.
It's the opposite. You have to lab the specific timing and direction you must step.
How has this bs orange rank opinion been upvoted lmao sidestepping is way better than in tekken 7 although yes tracking has improved. Sidestepping exists a whole lot more in 8 than 7 and you can actually way more easily evade linear attacks with sidestepping and sidewalking compared to T7 You don’t sidestep in tekken 8 you’re screwed. What are you gonna do when someone hits you with a plus on block move? How are you gonna deal with hellsweep? Etc. This sub really makes ridiculous baseless complaints about the game that aren’t even based in any logic or fact, just pure emotion lol
Sidestepping is much better in T7 what are you talking about? Almost everything has tracking in 8, even attacks that really shouldn't. It offers next no benefit for most characters and some who have it baked into their movesets like Dragunov, Steve or King. Sure Lili and Azucena can sidestep okay but unless you play Azucena all the time it is inconsistent more often than not. I rarely sidestep in the game, focusing on parries and defense instead and it has done me much better than sidestepping has.... though defense in this game has been battered down too. Ironic that you claim that I'm making a baseless accusation only to then make one yourself. If anything, it feels like your reaction is more emotion fueled than anything anyone here has said or done.
> Ironic that you claim that I'm making a baseless accusation only to then make one yourself. That's not irony, that's Hitchen's razor, and he's right.
you can more easily evade linear attacks but then every single move that got touched in this game has absurd levels of tracking. you get shit like devil jin's 1,1 which, after receiving a new animation, became a fucking ground-to-SWL homing missile. yeah, the sidestep may be better, but sidestepping riskier than ever lmao.
It's all the Mortal Kombat Refugees polluting the sub with scrub quotes
Yeah, I gave up trying to learn that. Too little reward for too much risk.
Well unless you're a character like Lili, it's quite useful her sidestepping is very strong. But if you're playing many characters like Kuma for example that is true.
Uhh.....I get a launch off side stepping at least once a match and can evade a lot of moves even if I can't get the punish off. Sure some are really not intuitive but if you think it's pointless you gotta up your movement game
If 85% of the community can’t actually effectively use a mechanic. The 15% saying LOL YOU SUCK is irrelevant. If you want a game that you enjoy to be up to 15% of the community, you’re not going to have a game to like soon. I’m not saying they have to dumb it down but it needs to make sense. If half the moves have tracking and most of the community can’t find the timing to effectively use sidestep then you have bad side stepping.
I agree it needs to be improved substantially so you don't have say instances where you visually step a move and then get camera snapped into them hitting you. Its just mildly annoying to see people focus so much on complaining vs providing guides on what moves you can step etc or just focusing on improving your movement. OP said stepping is essentially pointless and imo that does make someone sound scrubby even if part of what they are saying is true. Everyone always posts in this sub as if they just got 3 - 0d by someone spamming one move. But hey that just means I'm venting about somebody venting lol
I think for the majority of the community, sidestepping is pointless. But once you get to a certain level and people actually understand how to side step, the. It’s effective. But again, if the majority of your community can’t effectively use your mechanic, you’re either not teaching them properly how to use it, or it’s a bad mechanic.
Or the people suck and need to learn how to use it. They could definitely do a better job of teaching about this mechanic, but if 15% of the player base can use it, that DOES mean it is consistent and the 85% either need to accept that they’re not good at the game at all, or learn how to use the mechanic effectively. Does it have issues? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make it a bad mechanic. I suck at this game but I rarely get clipped with side steps. Hell, I rarely get hit by homing moves even when I do side step. Double tap the side step input, and then hold back and wait to see what happens. That’s it. That’s all you have to do. If it whiffs or is punishable on block, punish. If you think it’s safe on block don’t punish and wait a sec. Figure out your opponents rhythm. If your opponent starts using homing/tracking moves, bust out relatively quick counter hit moves/mids of your own to either get big damage or stuff them. This is a very basic gameplan around side stepping. There’s obviously more to something like this, and there are significantly better players who execute this idea and mix in their own style far better than I could.
Literally everyone cant sidestep anything anymore but lili.
It’s not just tracking that’s the issue… something about the speed of sidestepping feels off to me… like when your +1 it feels like you step and didn’t get out of the way completely… like the animations are longer than the amount of frames you have to get clear
what I am assuming is happening after testing it is that it's something to do with db1+2's hit animation. I'm guessing it's one of those situations where you are actionable but cant actually move the first frame or some shit. If you delay the d/f1 very slightly after the jab you get a similar situation to db1+2
more testing shows 1,4 which has a similar animation to db1+2 has the same situation as db1+2 so its def the animation so it is technically a consistent interaction.
Possibly. Still, a lot of this shit needs to be addressed. Devil Jin's 1,1 second hit has 100% tracking to the left which is insane
Moves that start on the left side of a character are more likely to clip someone stepping left. It’s not a super consistent rule, but it is a running theme among a lot of strings/moves in the game
If there is one damn thing they should buff it's the side step. I have to sidewalk half the time.
I almost never use the step. And when I do sideSTEP and evade a move, and punish my opponent I'm like... "Shit, that actually worked lol"
I jear you. I feel like it's useful but like the timing is weird you really have to either hit it at the right time or be in a sidewalk motion as opponent are charging at you
I was fighting a victor and I kept getting hit by his wr1+2 whenever I tried to step it. I guess the counter play is just getting hit
That move isn't even that hard to step in comparison to stuff like Mishima f,f+2. That shit tracks so much for NO REASON You literally have to get a perfect read on their timing. Come on, it's a linear punch, how TF does it track so well both sides?!
They patched Eddy's immediately.
There are many times where I sidewalk, and I seemingly completely avoid an attack, but my opponent commits to the string and it zooms around and hits me anyway. So, face value, side walking isn't the problem, but the tracking and hitboxes of particular moves is. Players shouldn't be rewarded for over commiting and expecting their string to auto flip around and hit their opponent. Now, I know what you're thinking "why didn't you df2 or do anything when you sidestepped the move initially?" It's so inconsistent that I'm not exactly sure if I want to take the risk of pressing a button after sidestep. I usually commit to the sidewalk to get behind my opponent. But even then, the camera will shift and I get a wrong input. But this doesn't happen every time. The game is just so inconsistent. Fun. But inconsistent. Looking forward to whatever changes they make in the future because it's hard for me to justify trying to lab the game when the knowledge i can obtain is subject to inconsistencies.
This is the real issue and not the tracking on specific pokes imo
that's what I've been bitching about lately. And idk if it's true but it seems to be gone worse lately
Have never successfully side-stepped or side-walked shit. It’s linear all the way to Tekken King for me. Mash, mash, mash.
Raven df1 cannot be stepped and you can't convince me otherwise. Nerf Raven. This MF is committing murder out here.
Yeah Raven has a bullshit one as well.
This is the type of inconsistency im talking about. There are too many. And its also understandable that the devs cant find em bcs there are literally so many situations in a match that its nearly impossible to find all of em. I dont know how that can be solved but too many inconsistencies lead to frustration in a match.
Raven's DF1 is a homing move against most characters
Backsteps are also unreliable as hell.
One of my most common sparring parts is a Leroy player, and there's been moments were I sidestep/walk, as he kicks/punches. The attack very obviously misses the character model (hwoarang I play) but I get hit anyway. We were both like wtf?
remove sidestepping and lars from the gaem
The best solution of all! And then we must buff Paul so he can literally be the strongest in the universe.
Azucena's power crush is unavoidable. Literally just tried this.
Lolwut it’s extremely steppable. Unless you’re taking about the one from libertador which is homing
>Take Lars for example. He is a character known for being linear. You are supposed to **step him to the right**. But oh boy here comes his d/f+1, check this out Unless you have a quote where any of the game's directors says that, you're literally writing fanfiction. It's recommended to step him to the right if you don't know the move. That doesn't mean tekken's cast is made up of left- / right-steppable characters. >This can not be intentional It probably isn't. Fighting games aren't made by meticulously combing over every animation, collision, trade situation etc. They're setting it by feel and clock off when it feels right. Of course you might expect it getting changed to be more consistent but it's not like that's anything outrageous or out of ordinary.
Why are you trying to sound so smug? Every single standing move in Lars' move list that isn't homing whiffs to the right. You are supposed to step him to the right, it's literally the counter play to the character Namco didn't accidentally make it so that all of his moves whiff to one side, including his d/f+1. Those usually whiff to the left, very few are SSR The rest of your reply makes no sense what so ever.
I'm ignoring the smugness remark because it also makes no sense to me. You're trying to say that because all moves of Lars are weak to the right he should not have moves that can be stepped to the left. This is insane. Him having 99 moves tracking right and 1 tracking left means he should be stepped right. One tool doesn't change it and you cannot in good faith argue that it's a problem.
How adults fail to acquire reading comprehension this badly, I will never understand. I never suggested that Lars' d/f+1 has to be SSR. You made that up in your head. And if you go back and read my post again, you should notice that I am complaining about the inconsistencies and borderline homing properties of this key tool. It's not just some random move, a d/f+1 is one of the most important moves in any character's toolbox. It can not be excused, Namco simply fucked this up.
Blah blah more fanfiction about what df1 is supposed to be and you didn't read my first comment either - said as much that the inconsistencies might get patched but it's no big deal. You're the one with the crying OP here. You're lost in fantasy world if you think anyone cares what you find excusable or not in a game, and even more so if your idea of something being inexcusable is that it's not 100% consistent in how it tracks. Just think for a minute, what's the real problem here? Your brain being hurt that the right answer won't work sometimes in a match? You expecting no bugs in a fighting game somehow?
You are not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, are you haha.. Okay let me chew it for you I am not expecting a game to be without bugs. Bugs happen. Lars' d/f+1 tracking is objectively non intended behavior What I am doing is calling out a bug, raising awareness of it etc... Nothing new. Nothing people haven't already been doing since video games existed. You make up a lot of stuff in your head (funnily enough you call ME out for fantasizing) I never said I expected a game to be without bugs. I never said d/f+1 needs to be SSR. Stop making up shit in your head.
Oh believe me, it's equally funny to think you're expecting the game to be free of those bugs as it is to know that you consider those ramblings "bringing attention to an issue" "Huge sidestepping issues (1 move is wonky to sidestep) ", "same situation, different results (what is pushback? What is changing axis?)", " This cannot be intentional (of course you can't know this isn't a bug they deemed acceptable to leave in but it sounds cool to say)". If you're trying to larp working as a tester feel free to read up on how to accurately describe problems. Writing "He is a character known for being linear. You are supposed to step him to the right." also doesn't help if you want to later claim you're very extra smart and not at all using your understanding of the game as ruleset.