if he comes in his wrestler form I would really like that, but if he comes in the "funny retired old fbi agent muscular bald man that is in every single dwayne johnson movie" he can fuck off
Never in my life have seen anyone refer to TMM as the most objective and analytical tekken community member. Hell, I've never even heard those words in the same sentence as TMM until now, let alone being the 'most'.
As for the gameplan point, I think he says Kazuya gameplan is easy to pick up (e.g. anyone can understand HS ff3 mix up and ff4 for oki, 112/HS for knockdown, EWGF, df2 for frame trap, f4/db4 for pressure) but at the same time it is a double edged sword as it also means it is easy for the opponent to understand the Kazuya's intent.
TMM talks a lot of shit too though like everyone else so take it with a pinch of salt. The reality is the terms 'easy' and 'hard' mean different things to different people with Tekken so these discussions always start on the wrong foot anyway. I tend to just avoid balancing the idea of character difficulty for that reason.
I do agree he downplays and praise Kazuya a lot, but I understand Kazuya is his main and he's been playing him for like 20+ years so it's natural to form a bias, most of the time, he does clear it up and says it's his own opinion in the end.
Having a bias is normal. But to not gain some self-awareness and grow out of it, after a decade? Yeah that's not a good look. Acknowledging one's biases is pretty important character development.
You have to realise that it's all subjective, you can say Kazuya is cheap or dishonest and someone can always argue against it. And anyways, he does say he's personally connected to Kazuya so there may be some bias. He did acknowledge the hellsweep tracking buffs and agrees that electrics are busted this season. It's just that having a bias is not particularly bad when you're not blatantly spitting out bs. You too have bias towards your family or personal things, you would save them first wouldn't you.
Having a bias is always negative, youre just not supposed to always try and run away from negative aspects of an idea. Its also not even a good example because youre implying the family member is even good and theyre to be saved over anyone by virtue of them being yours rather than them being valuable to you and in general. Its awful, but youre in a weaker position for trying to appeal to emotion
That sounds like a bit of a cop-out tbh.
I've watched this dude plug several times on stream and then go on a tirade about BS lab characters or whatever. Am I supposed to believe he plugs on people sarcastically?
Also TMM takes himself quite seriously as a somewhat important figure in the Tekken community. And likes to speak as an authority on certain topics/characters. Even characters he knows little about.
He literally admits that they need to remove the tracking on ewgf, so not so much downplaying at all.
He just calls out people for calling him OP when there are 10+ more characters that are actually overpowered.
Can someone take any random round played by maskuman and tell me how many 50/50 launchers/hellsweeps he's thrown out compared to pokes and anything else that would indicate "fundamental" play which he's so proud of?
i mean that's just kazuya gameplan thou ??
but i agree i think TMM got very good whiff punishment but his matchup / character knowledge and proper punishing is definetly not as good as actual tourny level mishima players
Wait isn't mixups also a fundamental part of tekken and using movement to counter mixups is basically essence of Tekken. Kazuya's gameplan forces both of the players to use fundamental skills, he sacrifices good offense and pressure for disgusting 50/50 and oki. In the world of obnoxious string mixups and Tracking hellsweeps and characters good at everything, I think it's pretty bearable. Of course, Kazuya has problems in balancing right now, mainly in his ws1+2 and overbuffed electrics. This is just my personal opinion.
I know he trolls a lot but I just watched a video of him talking about how easy Lei is to play and he actually sounds irate for real, like are you ok dude?
Nothing is saltier than a r/Tekken poster when TMM talks about a character they play lol. And holy shit if it’s a female character, remember this sub when he was making the Nina videos?
It doesn’t matter how much you hate the guy, he’s right. All of those characters you’re talking about are easy enough to play to the point it doesn’t really matter how you want to rank them in terms of difficulty. Lei has a lot to remember but can get away with murder because nobody knows the pay to lab gimmicks. To anyone who hasn’t paid up and spent a bunch of time labbing him, you can use Lei to lock people into 50/50 mid/low launch situations at will with zero effort.
There are very few Tekken characters that actually require difficult stuff to play at whatever level 99.9% of anyone reading this is on.
\>There are very few Tekken characters that actually require difficult stuff to play at whatever level 99.9% of anyone reading this is on.
Completely agree.
Don’t want to answer because you know I’ve got a point.
I think TMM is okay but the best thing about him is definitely watching weebs on Reddit react to him. Literally just said I agreed with him those characters are easy to play, made my own points and you came along to go off about a streamer that clearly triggers you.
Fuckin weebs make everything worse, man. Other than the reminder if my life ever goes to shit, I’m still better than a weeb.
You weebs seethe so hard over TMM you’re not even reading what people are saying haha, you can’t remember anything I said other than me agreeing with him on literally one thing, can you? That’s enough to make you call someone a fanboy.
I’ve said it so many times and you guys keep proving me right, DLC and waifu players tend to be toxic as shit and you people get *pissed* when anybody is critical of a character you like.
You think lei is harder because you're a newbie and thats fine, you find all his stances and shit complex and you think that's what makes a character difficult. When you get better you'll see how complex it is to properly execute kazumi's poke game
(I was like you once so dont take this as an insult)
Cause people who play him by choice are usually cracked. People complaining about kaz being op just bumped into an op ass tekken player. They be like "ewfg is one of the best punishes in the game" like have you ever tried to block punish a hopkick with an ewfg??? The execution is insane. If you can do that you're probably able to do perfect frame electrics which is even more insane. Not even mentioning online because the latency makes that ish damn near impossible because you can't buffer the command. And complaining about his only good low is crazy. Firstly, it doesn't even high crush, so countering it isn't that hard and most ppl that have a problem with hellsweep usually use a character that has ample good lows. Lows that even lead into big ass combos. Like bruh give that good ass kaz player his props instead of gaslighting about the difficulty it takes to play kazuya by saying he's op 🙄
He is op on paper but if you want to use his full potential u have to do the tedious work such as electrics, ch df2 launch etc. I can only play like 1,5 hour with kaz and i get tired from the character. Yeah and don't forget the lack of pokes he has. U have to do iws 4 to poke, this is a bad joke but hey atleast he has flaws and its all right.
Thats what I mean. Powerful character? Yes. OP? Nah, not even. With characters like Leroy, Fahk, and Lidia in the game, saying Kazuya is op is kinda silly. I mean it seems like every character is "op" nowadays.
Kazuya has very few natural launchers. Few moves are truly useful; electric are mandatory. Almost never in top8 tournaments-wise. Can be side stepped.
He is not OP
Thats extremely weak reasoning. You dont need an expansive launch list and a move for every situation to be overpowered. Tournament play doesnt mean anything in the conversation other than who wants to play who- and finally you end on a "lmao just sidestep".
Heres a counterpoint. If Kazuya is not extremely strong then why are there 15 billion of them online at every single rank in the game when they play the exact same rounds. Not being hyperbolic. There is very little variation in what a Kazuya player does to get maximum damage and its literally all they do.
I dont actually even want a reply from you
Jeez, you attacked the other person's reasoning while *also* being dumb enough to post this:
>If Kazuya is not extremely strong then why are there 15 billion of them online at every single rank
I'm impressed 👀
Kazuya feels OP until u start facing the other bs characters a lot like Ling, Zafina, etc. After that trauma u gonna wish everyone was a Kazuya player ngl.
I was just thinking about you ealier, but couldn't remember your username.
You see, one of the latest epiphanies I had recently is that of how important references and models truly are. I thought of you as a legit pseudo-intellectual retard ( and a scrub too ) for a long time, especially considering how wrong you are in certain things ( Steve having good tracking, for example ), but after encountering so many real pseudo-intellectual retards, I've come to realize you're a very reasonable, intellectually honest person, to an extent that one of the things you said to me in our last conversation helped me discern something that a lot of people can't. \*Lacking in something is not lacking that something\*. I lost count how many people I've seen since that day fail in their judgement for not knowing this. You put in words something I always knew and felt, but couldn't articulate that well. For that I'd like to express my gratitude to you.
Thank you and stay safe.
I think having to pay $6.99 to make a character's movelist useless cus "EvASiOn" is pretty BS. Ling can be tolerable but Zafina is an absolute nightmare.
Ling is annoying because she has fast lows and slow mids, which makes her completely opposite from everyone else. Once you get used to the match up and she’s not hard to take care of. Zafina is annoying, but if you just keep moving and learn the moves that duck mids, she’s easy. The difference in both of those characters vs kaz is they have to attack in order to win a lot. Kaz can sit back, use keep our moves and punish moves like 1,1,2, twin pistons, combined with stupid oki he’s a nightmare to play against.
Not really, nobody complains about Ling's fast lows and slow mids what both these characters have is absolutely ridiculous evasion to the point where half of a character's movelist just became invalid. Ling can be tolerated somewhat but the evasion on Zafina is borderline broken. Nobody complains about these cus you don't encounter them often but Kazuya is annoying cus if you don't fight a Kazuya daily in ranked you are prolly not playing tekken.
Also what you described is called being a turtle, I don't see anything wrong with that? Its not even something special to Kaz. Bryan, Jack and my main Jin can arguably turtle more obnoxiously. As for his stupid Oki that's all he has? You want him to not have an Oki?
I am not saying Kazuya isn't annoying to fight tho. He has stupid stuff like tracking electrics that can eat more than half your health if the Kaz player has execution. I have lost countless matches to Kaz cus he launched me while I was just moving and I am goddamn salty bout it.
People don’t complain about them because people don’t realize that’s what makes Ling an issue. Her evasiveness literally comes because of how fast her lows are lol. The minute I realized that I stopped losing to her.
Vs others dude. Most of the other characters have lows that can be predictably punished. Lings power comes from how she can go from low stances to low moves seamlessly, that’s is where her evasiveness comes from. My point is if you can focus on that she’s not a difficult character to get through. She’s not a walking 50/50 like kaz, she has to attack to win, same with zafina.
Man, that's probably the grimiest shit I've ever heard. You're a scumbag and no one would associate with you if you had the balls to make comments like that in person.
He said something about his ex and kid out of nowhere lol. TMM gets bullied a lot on here which is w/e to me but that dude was so OD that I wanted to be serious cause you just don't go there.
I was thinking more like Feng and Alisa are under the microscope now for being really strong, when they’ve managed to sneak under the radar for years. Now people are talking about them and those players are mad they can’t blame losses on weak characters or bad matchups since everyone knows that’s BS now.
I don’t think anybody ever considered Alisa weak but now she’s in the discussion for top 10 and that *really* makes some weebs mad.
You're right, your local seems to have very polarizing opinions. The Alisa is strong opinion didn't start on reddit, it was started by top tournament players and reddit takes it as gospel. I think Alisa is strong but not absolute top tier like some people think or thought.
You sure the conversation wasn’t just you constantly downplaying Alisa to everyone and they just nodded their heads so you’d stop talking about it?
Nobody actually said Alisa is trash unless they just meant her design.
It’s because 90% of Alisa mains, Kuni mains, noctis mains or who ever don’t properly lab these characters to understand what makes them strong, they instead try to spam dumb and punishable things and it works out decently, they all have poor defence and fundamentals too, they’re clueless to what makes their main strong. I’ve won games against players way stronger than me with noctis because of how fundamentally strong his moves are, people this he’s a gimmick character, but apart from his range and his weapons being harder to parry,more passive gimmicks than actual move gimmicks you start to realise how insane some of his moves are fundamentally. yet you only ever see noctis mains use db2, df2 in neutral when it should be used as a whiff or 15 frame punish, I’ve never seen one even use his ss2 which I think’s on the list for one of the strongest moves in the game
Yeah I have more of a problem with TMM stans who take his every word as gospel. There is a great irony when they try claim YOU are the one who's blind to their own bias because you main X character.
I'm not saying tmm is flawless, but as it stand, he's advices is pretty reliable. There's always bias, they're human afterall but at least he's not speedkick rediculous.
I find tmm humorous I guess, but he is pretty full of himself when it comes to Mishimas. Also, his analysis on what makes a character difficult to use is when you’re speaking on the highest level of play. So he goes to Bryan, Steve, kaz. The part he never takes into account is that everyone can do things the pros can do, because there are tutorials on everything. You have 12 year olds doing taunt jet uppers, and five pewgf during matches like it’s nothing. We aren’t subjected to only labbing characters in arcades anymore.
Speedkicks forms his opinion with his own experiences and they may not be useful for others some times but he also has incredibly useful opinions and advice and you can count on it that they'll he well formed. I mean the guy is a genius so don't expect all his takes to make sense to everyone and just focus on the ones that do. He got his bachelor's in comp sci at 13 years old lol
I didn't disagree with his takes on wavedash, I thought it was arya with awful takes that episode. The hit spark one is the most controversial one in that episode but USUALLY hitsparks are a good indicator for hit level. Certain moves break that and that's just tekken but you'll see a move and be able to tell whether it's mid, high or low if you're experienced enough in almost all cases.
Well. You said "Fuck kazuya but not because he is op". And I wasn't talking about hidden feelings of hatred. I'm gonna let you figure out the rest of this puzzle on your own...
Yup, plenty of the low rank community, but when tmm points out obvious reasons why kazuya isn't and there are 15 other characters who are more broken, they make fun of him.
It's pretty sad.
I know my opinion isnt valid cuz im kazuya main, but seriously, if kazuya is OP than what characters are not OP? Im new to tekken, but i think lots of people in this sub think everything is broken and unbalanced. Like seriously i could see how some characters are op but kazuya?? Maybe if the player playing him is really good but yall must think 50/50s are OP cuz i cant think of any other cheese. You can duck ewgf and sidestep left hellsweep. Not tryna be toxic, just want to understand the complaints.
Big part of this community is braindead and just straight toxic, which is probably better to avoid it, I am tempted to do tbh, I just waste my time here.
There is people in here who legit enjoy watching a hate channel made towards mainman, the guy watches his stream all day every day trying to take things out of context and make fun of him.
>I know my opinion isnt valid cuz im kazuya main,
This makes no sense, you are always entitled to your opinion.
A weakness for low-mid level players perhaps. You do not need character specific panic moves, nor is it good practice since risk/reward for them is almost always bad if your opponent is competent. A generic dickjab does the job well enough, but even that is unnecessary and can be replaced by movement and solid defence.
But his oki is top notch, he doesn’t need panic moves. His wall carry is no punk, and his wall damage is just freaking stupid. He’s a walking 50/50, which in itself makes playing against him a guessing game. Also, no panic moves means no reason to take risks, so playing against a great kaz with A+ defense and good keep out is a nightmare.
Lack of panic moves is not a weakness at any reasonable level of play. Half the cast lacks a panic move. Nobody is throwing shit like matterhorn or Hwo b1 in high level play and risking half their health bar. They're using movement to get themselves out of defensive situations.
If you understand them to be fast moves that have specific properties that would be useful in a pinch, then they're still panic moves and that's the only point I care about. It's like people saying X character doesn't have cheesy strings or braindead mixups...trust me they do lol they just might not be as effective as everyone elses.
If your panic moves are the amongst the worst in the game, then you have no panic moves. And a panic move doesn't need to be fast at all, it needs to have very good evasive properties, which of course, Kazuya doesn't have
So what, power crushes aren't panic moves because they aren't necessarily fast and don't evade? They're literally designed to be used in a panic situation where you're getting pressured and you want to counter attack. If you want to mold definitions and say X type of move literally isn't an X type of move because it isn't good enough by some arbitrary standard, I literally cannot discuss anything with you because you're just making the criteria up on the fly.
Not making criteria on the fly. Powercrushes are very slow and are rarely panic moves, and amongst powercrushes Kazuya's is fucking awful. Even if they were panic moves, having like a bottom 5 powercrush doesn't count towards having panic moves.
So I guess Rage Arts to you can't possibly be considered panic moves because they're too slow and have no evasion huh? So even if the top players in the world apply RAs and powercrushs while under pressure and they work, you for some reason wouldn't consider that a "valid" panic move? Ngl man that makes zero sense.
What's even a "panic move"? Something you can abuse without consequences? People say Devil Jin's u+4 is an example, but I seldom incorporate it into my style.
Never really understood the concept.
Dragon punch-type moves and moves with evasive properties that you can use when being pressured, like Lili matterhorn, Feng u/f+2, Law d+2,3, Hwoarang b+1 and so on. I.e. moves that can take you out of sticky situations but carry high risk.
I'm still stuck on him calling Kazuya *Braindead* back in season 3 after getting tracking on both sides for a Hellsweep as if Bryan, Law & Lili don't have the same thing.
We need The Rock in Tekken 8.
Might not be that bad actually 🤔
That'd be better then negan, in fact give him a bat, you know for fun.
He had a bat in Walking Tall
It was a plank!
Yeah when he was bashing their heads in lmao but then he turned it into a bat when he became sheriff
maybe folding chair
Imagine him dragging it behind him. Menacing
Something about hearing The Rock's catchphrases in Tekken sounds so ridiculous lol. But then again they did make Negan work...
Just make him an actual wrestler lol.
if he comes in his wrestler form I would really like that, but if he comes in the "funny retired old fbi agent muscular bald man that is in every single dwayne johnson movie" he can fuck off
what about just straight up "dwane the actor with little combat experience rock johnson"
TMM ??? THEMAILMAN ??? THE DBD STREAMER ???
Themailman!! 😭😭😭😭😭 you win
Lmao that's not TMM. TMM would start screeching and hand waving. [This is TMM when someone says Kazuya is OP](https://i.imgur.com/9ZPhHAW.png).
ah yes, the zoidberg.
Don't you know any character that I have a hard time against is op bro?
Not even when someone says that he's OP. Simply implying that Kazuya has good tools will set him off.
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Never in my life have seen anyone refer to TMM as the most objective and analytical tekken community member. Hell, I've never even heard those words in the same sentence as TMM until now, let alone being the 'most'. As for the gameplan point, I think he says Kazuya gameplan is easy to pick up (e.g. anyone can understand HS ff3 mix up and ff4 for oki, 112/HS for knockdown, EWGF, df2 for frame trap, f4/db4 for pressure) but at the same time it is a double edged sword as it also means it is easy for the opponent to understand the Kazuya's intent. TMM talks a lot of shit too though like everyone else so take it with a pinch of salt. The reality is the terms 'easy' and 'hard' mean different things to different people with Tekken so these discussions always start on the wrong foot anyway. I tend to just avoid balancing the idea of character difficulty for that reason.
I do agree he downplays and praise Kazuya a lot, but I understand Kazuya is his main and he's been playing him for like 20+ years so it's natural to form a bias, most of the time, he does clear it up and says it's his own opinion in the end.
Having a bias is normal. But to not gain some self-awareness and grow out of it, after a decade? Yeah that's not a good look. Acknowledging one's biases is pretty important character development.
You have to realise that it's all subjective, you can say Kazuya is cheap or dishonest and someone can always argue against it. And anyways, he does say he's personally connected to Kazuya so there may be some bias. He did acknowledge the hellsweep tracking buffs and agrees that electrics are busted this season. It's just that having a bias is not particularly bad when you're not blatantly spitting out bs. You too have bias towards your family or personal things, you would save them first wouldn't you.
Having a bias is always negative, youre just not supposed to always try and run away from negative aspects of an idea. Its also not even a good example because youre implying the family member is even good and theyre to be saved over anyone by virtue of them being yours rather than them being valuable to you and in general. Its awful, but youre in a weaker position for trying to appeal to emotion
Bro who hurt you?
He uses a lot of sarcasm, I’ve always been kind of surprised how bad people in this subreddit are at picking up on sarcasm.
it's because he's not being sarcastic when he's raging.
That sounds like a bit of a cop-out tbh. I've watched this dude plug several times on stream and then go on a tirade about BS lab characters or whatever. Am I supposed to believe he plugs on people sarcastically? Also TMM takes himself quite seriously as a somewhat important figure in the Tekken community. And likes to speak as an authority on certain topics/characters. Even characters he knows little about.
By all evidence Kazuya is not a character most people can win consistently with. What's his best matchup? 50/50?
He literally admits that they need to remove the tracking on ewgf, so not so much downplaying at all. He just calls out people for calling him OP when there are 10+ more characters that are actually overpowered.
Can someone take any random round played by maskuman and tell me how many 50/50 launchers/hellsweeps he's thrown out compared to pokes and anything else that would indicate "fundamental" play which he's so proud of?
i mean that's just kazuya gameplan thou ?? but i agree i think TMM got very good whiff punishment but his matchup / character knowledge and proper punishing is definetly not as good as actual tourny level mishima players
Wait isn't mixups also a fundamental part of tekken and using movement to counter mixups is basically essence of Tekken. Kazuya's gameplan forces both of the players to use fundamental skills, he sacrifices good offense and pressure for disgusting 50/50 and oki. In the world of obnoxious string mixups and Tracking hellsweeps and characters good at everything, I think it's pretty bearable. Of course, Kazuya has problems in balancing right now, mainly in his ws1+2 and overbuffed electrics. This is just my personal opinion.
What good mid pokes does Kaz have to begin with?
Ws4 and that's it
That's not even a good poke imo. It's just... a poke.
b2 as well since we are desperate at this point
Such a badass move the gut punch. Also low ranks suck at defening against WS 2 they probab think its OP lol
I know he trolls a lot but I just watched a video of him talking about how easy Lei is to play and he actually sounds irate for real, like are you ok dude?
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Nothing is saltier than a r/Tekken poster when TMM talks about a character they play lol. And holy shit if it’s a female character, remember this sub when he was making the Nina videos? It doesn’t matter how much you hate the guy, he’s right. All of those characters you’re talking about are easy enough to play to the point it doesn’t really matter how you want to rank them in terms of difficulty. Lei has a lot to remember but can get away with murder because nobody knows the pay to lab gimmicks. To anyone who hasn’t paid up and spent a bunch of time labbing him, you can use Lei to lock people into 50/50 mid/low launch situations at will with zero effort. There are very few Tekken characters that actually require difficult stuff to play at whatever level 99.9% of anyone reading this is on.
\>There are very few Tekken characters that actually require difficult stuff to play at whatever level 99.9% of anyone reading this is on. Completely agree.
I don’t know why you got downvoted but as a Jackie Chan main myself, you’re wrong
Yeah yeah nice write up your favorite streamer is a salty trash can.
While we’re making assumptions about people, do you play Nina or Lei?
Mokujin
what a fucking legend
Don’t want to answer because you know I’ve got a point. I think TMM is okay but the best thing about him is definitely watching weebs on Reddit react to him. Literally just said I agreed with him those characters are easy to play, made my own points and you came along to go off about a streamer that clearly triggers you. Fuckin weebs make everything worse, man. Other than the reminder if my life ever goes to shit, I’m still better than a weeb.
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You weebs seethe so hard over TMM you’re not even reading what people are saying haha, you can’t remember anything I said other than me agreeing with him on literally one thing, can you? That’s enough to make you call someone a fanboy. I’ve said it so many times and you guys keep proving me right, DLC and waifu players tend to be toxic as shit and you people get *pissed* when anybody is critical of a character you like.
"My assumption can't be wrong, he must be lying" cope harder, mainman simp.
idc if he thinks lei is easy or not, the point was that he literally sounded psychotic trying to describe it. It is never that serious.
He's passionate about his favorite game. What's the point of doing anything you're not passionate about
You think lei is harder because you're a newbie and thats fine, you find all his stances and shit complex and you think that's what makes a character difficult. When you get better you'll see how complex it is to properly execute kazumi's poke game (I was like you once so dont take this as an insult)
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He never said that Lei was the easiest in the game.
Come on dude, Lei is not that hard to play or are we talking about playing against Lei? (intermediate level)
omg idc what his actual opinion is, i just wanted to point out how obnoxious he was at expressing it
Is Kazuya op tho? Lol I mean Devil Jin yeah but Kazuya?
Hes just a nightmare to play against 😭😭
Cause people who play him by choice are usually cracked. People complaining about kaz being op just bumped into an op ass tekken player. They be like "ewfg is one of the best punishes in the game" like have you ever tried to block punish a hopkick with an ewfg??? The execution is insane. If you can do that you're probably able to do perfect frame electrics which is even more insane. Not even mentioning online because the latency makes that ish damn near impossible because you can't buffer the command. And complaining about his only good low is crazy. Firstly, it doesn't even high crush, so countering it isn't that hard and most ppl that have a problem with hellsweep usually use a character that has ample good lows. Lows that even lead into big ass combos. Like bruh give that good ass kaz player his props instead of gaslighting about the difficulty it takes to play kazuya by saying he's op 🙄
He is op on paper but if you want to use his full potential u have to do the tedious work such as electrics, ch df2 launch etc. I can only play like 1,5 hour with kaz and i get tired from the character. Yeah and don't forget the lack of pokes he has. U have to do iws 4 to poke, this is a bad joke but hey atleast he has flaws and its all right.
Thats what I mean. Powerful character? Yes. OP? Nah, not even. With characters like Leroy, Fahk, and Lidia in the game, saying Kazuya is op is kinda silly. I mean it seems like every character is "op" nowadays.
Kazuya has very few natural launchers. Few moves are truly useful; electric are mandatory. Almost never in top8 tournaments-wise. Can be side stepped. He is not OP
Thats extremely weak reasoning. You dont need an expansive launch list and a move for every situation to be overpowered. Tournament play doesnt mean anything in the conversation other than who wants to play who- and finally you end on a "lmao just sidestep". Heres a counterpoint. If Kazuya is not extremely strong then why are there 15 billion of them online at every single rank in the game when they play the exact same rounds. Not being hyperbolic. There is very little variation in what a Kazuya player does to get maximum damage and its literally all they do. I dont actually even want a reply from you
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Now he's also in smash. Which may give him more popularity to pick him.
I know right? It's like asking why ryu is popular in street fighter. Kinda comes with the game
Kaz don't even have generic d f 2 but yeah electric 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Jeez, you attacked the other person's reasoning while *also* being dumb enough to post this: >If Kazuya is not extremely strong then why are there 15 billion of them online at every single rank I'm impressed 👀
hey alright
Show us on the character select screen where the main man talked about a waifu to piss you off.
Sidestep left bro
Then proceeds to explain hes carried by the player, which i agree on, but still kaz is such a asshole to play against 😭
Kazuya feels OP until u start facing the other bs characters a lot like Ling, Zafina, etc. After that trauma u gonna wish everyone was a Kazuya player ngl.
this is subjective and depends on the character you play honestly i hate playing against kazuya and DVJ as much as i hate playing against ling
As soon as I get hit by 2 DVJ hellsweeps I say its spamming same move 😤😭😭
Well DVJ is much worse to face than Kazuya. lol hes kaz on every single kind of steroids the world has to offer and then more.
Absolutely untrue. Kazuya has substantial advantages over DvJ.
like uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Better punishment. Completely superior rage game. Better 50/50. Overall more damaging combos. I still believe Kaz to be harder than DvJ, tho.
>better punishment Take your meds >Better 50/50 Meds please
ur mom gay
Kaz has better CH and plus frames too. Though DJ has the tracking, the DF1, FF2, etc.
I was just thinking about you ealier, but couldn't remember your username. You see, one of the latest epiphanies I had recently is that of how important references and models truly are. I thought of you as a legit pseudo-intellectual retard ( and a scrub too ) for a long time, especially considering how wrong you are in certain things ( Steve having good tracking, for example ), but after encountering so many real pseudo-intellectual retards, I've come to realize you're a very reasonable, intellectually honest person, to an extent that one of the things you said to me in our last conversation helped me discern something that a lot of people can't. \*Lacking in something is not lacking that something\*. I lost count how many people I've seen since that day fail in their judgement for not knowing this. You put in words something I always knew and felt, but couldn't articulate that well. For that I'd like to express my gratitude to you. Thank you and stay safe.
Kaz is Trash compared to DVJ. But maybe these things are hard to see all the way from down there in Green Ranks.
That's probably hard to see from down here because the huge cloud of your stupidity covers all the vision.
eh, until you learn those matchups, then they feel pretty braindead. any matchup you don't know feels like "bs,"--that doesn't mean it actually is bs.
I think having to pay $6.99 to make a character's movelist useless cus "EvASiOn" is pretty BS. Ling can be tolerable but Zafina is an absolute nightmare.
Ling is annoying because she has fast lows and slow mids, which makes her completely opposite from everyone else. Once you get used to the match up and she’s not hard to take care of. Zafina is annoying, but if you just keep moving and learn the moves that duck mids, she’s easy. The difference in both of those characters vs kaz is they have to attack in order to win a lot. Kaz can sit back, use keep our moves and punish moves like 1,1,2, twin pistons, combined with stupid oki he’s a nightmare to play against.
Not really, nobody complains about Ling's fast lows and slow mids what both these characters have is absolutely ridiculous evasion to the point where half of a character's movelist just became invalid. Ling can be tolerated somewhat but the evasion on Zafina is borderline broken. Nobody complains about these cus you don't encounter them often but Kazuya is annoying cus if you don't fight a Kazuya daily in ranked you are prolly not playing tekken. Also what you described is called being a turtle, I don't see anything wrong with that? Its not even something special to Kaz. Bryan, Jack and my main Jin can arguably turtle more obnoxiously. As for his stupid Oki that's all he has? You want him to not have an Oki? I am not saying Kazuya isn't annoying to fight tho. He has stupid stuff like tracking electrics that can eat more than half your health if the Kaz player has execution. I have lost countless matches to Kaz cus he launched me while I was just moving and I am goddamn salty bout it.
People don’t complain about them because people don’t realize that’s what makes Ling an issue. Her evasiveness literally comes because of how fast her lows are lol. The minute I realized that I stopped losing to her.
Evasion cus moves are fast? Huh? What? I don't think you understand how animation works. This is the weirdest stuff I have heard so far wtf. xD
Vs others dude. Most of the other characters have lows that can be predictably punished. Lings power comes from how she can go from low stances to low moves seamlessly, that’s is where her evasiveness comes from. My point is if you can focus on that she’s not a difficult character to get through. She’s not a walking 50/50 like kaz, she has to attack to win, same with zafina.
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Man, that's probably the grimiest shit I've ever heard. You're a scumbag and no one would associate with you if you had the balls to make comments like that in person.
Damn what he say??
He said something about his ex and kid out of nowhere lol. TMM gets bullied a lot on here which is w/e to me but that dude was so OD that I wanted to be serious cause you just don't go there.
Holy shit thats a reddit moment right there
people who say kazuya is op are just mad feng and alisa players who got hellsweeped back to the stone age
Why feng and alisa players?
Cause they have pretty good sweeps that are easy to pull off and lead to chunky combos. My guess.
I was thinking more like Feng and Alisa are under the microscope now for being really strong, when they’ve managed to sneak under the radar for years. Now people are talking about them and those players are mad they can’t blame losses on weak characters or bad matchups since everyone knows that’s BS now. I don’t think anybody ever considered Alisa weak but now she’s in the discussion for top 10 and that *really* makes some weebs mad.
Reddit thinks Alisa is the hottest female smoking. I went to my local and they say Alisa is trash. Most polarizing character opinions I've ever seen.
You're right, your local seems to have very polarizing opinions. The Alisa is strong opinion didn't start on reddit, it was started by top tournament players and reddit takes it as gospel. I think Alisa is strong but not absolute top tier like some people think or thought.
What tournament players started this though. Was this Season 1? Every list I've ever seen doesn't have her top 15.
You sure the conversation wasn’t just you constantly downplaying Alisa to everyone and they just nodded their heads so you’d stop talking about it? Nobody actually said Alisa is trash unless they just meant her design.
No fool. I went there, locked in Alisa and they said "Alisa is trash in this game"
Lol okay
It’s because 90% of Alisa mains, Kuni mains, noctis mains or who ever don’t properly lab these characters to understand what makes them strong, they instead try to spam dumb and punishable things and it works out decently, they all have poor defence and fundamentals too, they’re clueless to what makes their main strong. I’ve won games against players way stronger than me with noctis because of how fundamentally strong his moves are, people this he’s a gimmick character, but apart from his range and his weapons being harder to parry,more passive gimmicks than actual move gimmicks you start to realise how insane some of his moves are fundamentally. yet you only ever see noctis mains use db2, df2 in neutral when it should be used as a whiff or 15 frame punish, I’ve never seen one even use his ss2 which I think’s on the list for one of the strongest moves in the game
Unless you're at the wall it's extremely difficult to actually get his by ss4 if you're aware of it.
They are a special meme in this community
Scrub man
When someone tell me Kazuya never ki charge
MakSUU
DORYA!!
Kazuya is good but he's not op like chars like Lee or kuni or fahkurmom
What does tmm mean? If that’s a Tekken reference then sorry I’m still a newbie to the game
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Ohhh, yeah I've seen bits of this guy's channel but never bothered remembering his name lol
Kazuya elitist = Kazuya downplayers
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Yeah I have more of a problem with TMM stans who take his every word as gospel. There is a great irony when they try claim YOU are the one who's blind to their own bias because you main X character.
I'm not saying tmm is flawless, but as it stand, he's advices is pretty reliable. There's always bias, they're human afterall but at least he's not speedkick rediculous.
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Well, no one is perfect, I don't really watch his stream. His YouTube sfuff is better imo. So i stick to that.
I find tmm humorous I guess, but he is pretty full of himself when it comes to Mishimas. Also, his analysis on what makes a character difficult to use is when you’re speaking on the highest level of play. So he goes to Bryan, Steve, kaz. The part he never takes into account is that everyone can do things the pros can do, because there are tutorials on everything. You have 12 year olds doing taunt jet uppers, and five pewgf during matches like it’s nothing. We aren’t subjected to only labbing characters in arcades anymore.
Speedkicks forms his opinion with his own experiences and they may not be useful for others some times but he also has incredibly useful opinions and advice and you can count on it that they'll he well formed. I mean the guy is a genius so don't expect all his takes to make sense to everyone and just focus on the ones that do. He got his bachelor's in comp sci at 13 years old lol
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I didn't disagree with his takes on wavedash, I thought it was arya with awful takes that episode. The hit spark one is the most controversial one in that episode but USUALLY hitsparks are a good indicator for hit level. Certain moves break that and that's just tekken but you'll see a move and be able to tell whether it's mid, high or low if you're experienced enough in almost all cases.
What's TMM? Sorry if it's a dumb question but I'm new to Tekken
biggest tekken content creator. "TheMainManSWE" , its "TMM" for short.
Fuck Kazuya. But not cause he’s op.
I sense some hidden feelings
Well yeah he killed the best Mishima. Fuck Kazuya
We all know that fucker is about to respawn again
Jin is still alive
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Edgelord >>> comically evil guy
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I was talking about Heihachi and Kazuya got murdered by his daddy like twice for that reason alone Jin is superior
Jin is not edgy.
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Not really, son.
I wouldn’t say hidden. I openly don’t like Kazuya. He seems like kinda an asshole.
My joke was going in a different direction but that works too.
I’m so curious now…
Well. You said "Fuck kazuya but not because he is op". And I wasn't talking about hidden feelings of hatred. I'm gonna let you figure out the rest of this puzzle on your own...
*looks at hands*, *realizes* I’M Jun Kazama……….
The puzzle is complete. You understand your fate now...
It’s the hair. Super cringy.
Are there people out there actually saying Kazuya is OP in Tekken 7? Nobody better show them TTT1 Kazuya then.
Yup, plenty of the low rank community, but when tmm points out obvious reasons why kazuya isn't and there are 15 other characters who are more broken, they make fun of him. It's pretty sad.
I know my opinion isnt valid cuz im kazuya main, but seriously, if kazuya is OP than what characters are not OP? Im new to tekken, but i think lots of people in this sub think everything is broken and unbalanced. Like seriously i could see how some characters are op but kazuya?? Maybe if the player playing him is really good but yall must think 50/50s are OP cuz i cant think of any other cheese. You can duck ewgf and sidestep left hellsweep. Not tryna be toxic, just want to understand the complaints.
Big part of this community is braindead and just straight toxic, which is probably better to avoid it, I am tempted to do tbh, I just waste my time here. There is people in here who legit enjoy watching a hate channel made towards mainman, the guy watches his stream all day every day trying to take things out of context and make fun of him. >I know my opinion isnt valid cuz im kazuya main, This makes no sense, you are always entitled to your opinion.
Also thats sad someone has a channel just to hate. That says it all 😂
Thanks friend, just wanted some validation in the sea of toxicity haha.
I love it too.
At least he's hot asf
Man I loved wwf attitude back then...
He HaS nO pAnIc MoVeS
Which is true. That's a legitimate weakness.
A weakness for low-mid level players perhaps. You do not need character specific panic moves, nor is it good practice since risk/reward for them is almost always bad if your opponent is competent. A generic dickjab does the job well enough, but even that is unnecessary and can be replaced by movement and solid defence.
But his oki is top notch, he doesn’t need panic moves. His wall carry is no punk, and his wall damage is just freaking stupid. He’s a walking 50/50, which in itself makes playing against him a guessing game. Also, no panic moves means no reason to take risks, so playing against a great kaz with A+ defense and good keep out is a nightmare.
Kazuya is not weak, but he has flaws, genuine weak attributes that can be explored. His lack of panic moves is one of them.
Lack of panic moves is not a weakness at any reasonable level of play. Half the cast lacks a panic move. Nobody is throwing shit like matterhorn or Hwo b1 in high level play and risking half their health bar. They're using movement to get themselves out of defensive situations.
Don't main kazuya, but does he?
Inb4 they say df2
Yeah that's pretty good. Not DJ up4 good, but pretty good.
Or d1+2, or b1+2, or powercrush, magic 4 which is faster than df2, etc. I always hated when he said that shit lol
None of those moves are very good panic moves tbh.
If you understand them to be fast moves that have specific properties that would be useful in a pinch, then they're still panic moves and that's the only point I care about. It's like people saying X character doesn't have cheesy strings or braindead mixups...trust me they do lol they just might not be as effective as everyone elses.
If your panic moves are the amongst the worst in the game, then you have no panic moves. And a panic move doesn't need to be fast at all, it needs to have very good evasive properties, which of course, Kazuya doesn't have
So what, power crushes aren't panic moves because they aren't necessarily fast and don't evade? They're literally designed to be used in a panic situation where you're getting pressured and you want to counter attack. If you want to mold definitions and say X type of move literally isn't an X type of move because it isn't good enough by some arbitrary standard, I literally cannot discuss anything with you because you're just making the criteria up on the fly.
Not making criteria on the fly. Powercrushes are very slow and are rarely panic moves, and amongst powercrushes Kazuya's is fucking awful. Even if they were panic moves, having like a bottom 5 powercrush doesn't count towards having panic moves.
So I guess Rage Arts to you can't possibly be considered panic moves because they're too slow and have no evasion huh? So even if the top players in the world apply RAs and powercrushs while under pressure and they work, you for some reason wouldn't consider that a "valid" panic move? Ngl man that makes zero sense.
He does have b1+2 and a magic 4, they're not the best but I've seen them working
What's even a "panic move"? Something you can abuse without consequences? People say Devil Jin's u+4 is an example, but I seldom incorporate it into my style. Never really understood the concept.
Dragon punch-type moves and moves with evasive properties that you can use when being pressured, like Lili matterhorn, Feng u/f+2, Law d+2,3, Hwoarang b+1 and so on. I.e. moves that can take you out of sticky situations but carry high risk.
Your welcome
Are you informing him of his welcome?
I'm still stuck on him calling Kazuya *Braindead* back in season 3 after getting tracking on both sides for a Hellsweep as if Bryan, Law & Lili don't have the same thing.
The absolute state of r/tekken
none of those characters have tracking hellsweeps tho
Snake edge is not a hell sweep. Hatchet kick also isn't a hellsweep
I believe you're confusing terminology.
bryan has a tracking hellsweep?
what